* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [Houston Forensic Science Center: Board of Directors on September 11, 2026.] [00:00:19] WE HAVE A QUORUM. I CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER. MADAME SECRETARY, WOULD YOU PLEASE CALL THE ROLE? YES, MADAM CHAIR. I'LL BEGIN THE ROLL CALL NOW. CHAIRWOMAN COHEN HERE. VICE CHAIR BAIRD. HERE. DIRECTOR VA. HERE. DIRECTOR PHY. HERE. DIRECTOR TRITICA. HERE. DIRECTOR CORRALES. DIRECTOR. YOU HERE. DIRECTOR ZA. DIRECTOR HUFF HERE. DIRECTOR GU HERE. AND THAT CONCLUDES THE ROLL CALL. MADAM CHAIR. WE DO HAVE A QUORUM. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. MUCH. BEFORE WE GO INTO THE AGENDA, I'D LIKE TO TAKE A FEW MOMENTS TO RECOGNIZE THE IMPACT OF WHAT TODAY IS ALL ABOUT. I WANT TO TAKE, I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT TODAY IS SEPTEMBER 11TH, AND THIS YEAR MARK'S THE 25TH ANNIVERSARY OF THAT HORRIFIC ATTACK ON AMERICAN SOIL ACROSS THE COUNTRY. WE ARE PAUSING TO REFLECT AND REMEMBER THOSE WHO LOST THEIR LIVES, THE FAMILIES WHO STILL MOURN THEM, AS WELL AS THE COUNTLESS FIRST RESPONDERS AND ORDINARY RESIDENTS WHO STEPPED UP IN THE DAYS, MONTHS, AND YEARS TO FOLLOW. ALTHOUGH IT IS A SOLEMN DAY, WE HONOR THE RESILIENCE OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IN CONTINUING ON AFTER SUCH TRAGEDY. I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO TAKE TIME TO REFLECT ON THIS DAY IN YOUR OWN WAY, AND I THOUGHT I'D JUST ASK YOU TO TAKE A, A MINUTE OF SILENCE. THANK YOU. NOW, I'D LIKE TO THANK OUR FORMER BOARD MEMBER WHO IS NOT HERE TODAY, BUT HE IS IN SPIRIT. UM, JED SILVERMAN FOR HIS THREE YEARS OF SERVICE TO THE FORENSIC SCIENCE CENTER. WE TRULY APPRECIATE HIS INSIGHTS, CONTRIBUTIONS, AND COLLEGIALITY DURING HIS TENURE. I WISH HIM WELL. I KNOW WE ALL DO, AND HE WILL CONTINUE MAKING A DIFFERENCE IN THE HOUSTON COMMUNITY AND IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM. AS MOST OF YOU KNOW, OUR NEWLY APPOINTED BOARD MEMBER IS HERE TODAY, DIRECTOR CHRIS TRICO. AM I PRONOUNCING IT RIGHT? I'VE, I'VE GIVEN ABOUT THREE OR FOUR DIFFERENT PER ANNOUNCEMENTS, BUT PICK ONE THAT YOU LIKE. TRICO TRICO IS CORRECT. AND ALL OF THE ONES THAT YOU HAVE USED ARE CLOSE ENOUGH. . THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE THAT. UH, THE DIRECTOR IS A WELL-RESPECTED AND WELL-KNOWN ATTORNEY HERE IN HOUSTON, BUT HE HAS REPRESENTED CLIENTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY IN SEVERAL SIGNIFICANT CASES. I MAY NOT BE ABLE TO PRONOUNCE IT PROPERLY, BUT I'M AWARE OF SOME OF THOSE CASES. HIS PRIMARY PRACTICE AREAS ARE CRIMINAL DEFENSE, EDUCATION, LAW, AND PERSONAL INJURY. AND HE IS OFTEN CALLED ON TO PROVIDE LEGAL ANALYSIS ON VARIOUS NEWS AND TB PROGRAMS. I KNOW HE WILL BRING A WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE TO THE BOARD, AND WE ARE HAPPY TO HAVE HIM AND I WELCOME HIM TODAY AND ASK IF HE WOULD HAVE A FEW REMARKS FOR US. UH, THANK YOU. UM, UH, CHAIRWOMAN CO COHEN AND I APPRECIATE, UH, THE, UM, THE OPPORTUNITY AND THE HONOR TO SERVE, UH, HERE. UM, I'VE SPENT CLOSE TO 40 YEARS, UM, NOW REPRESENTING THE CRIMINALLY ACCUSED, UH, IN COURTROOMS ALL OVER THE UNITED STATES. AND I WAS JUST TELLING SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES THAT WHEN I WAS ASKED TO, UH, REPRESENT, UH, TIMOTHY MCVAY IN THE OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING CASE, I, I WAS ASKED WHEN I GOT THERE TO TAKE ON ALL OF THE FORENSICS IN THAT CASE, WHICH WAS EVERY, EVERY ASPECTS OF EVERY ASPECT OF FORENSIC SCIENCE. AND IT WAS AT THE TIME IN OUR COUNTRY WHEN THE FBI CRIME LAB WAS IMPLODING IN, UM, IN SCANDAL. AND I HAD NOT AT THAT TIME IN MY LIFE EVER TAKEN CHEMISTRY OR PHYSICS. HMM. AND SO I GOT A CRASH COURSE IN HOW TO, HOW TO BUILD A BOMB, HOW TO BLOW UP A BOMB, AND HOW TO CLEAN A BOMB ALONG WITH EVERY OTHER ASPECT OF FORENSIC SCIENCE THAT YOU CAN THINK OF. AND THEN PROCEEDED TO SPEND THE ENTIRE TRIAL CROSS-EXAMINING EVERY, EVERY, UH, EXPERT THAT WAS BROUGHT IN ON THE CASE. AND THEN I'VE SPENT THE REST OF MY CAREER, UH, CROSS-EXAMINING, UH, EXPERTS AND EVERY CASE I'VE HAD. AND SO I HOPE THAT, THAT, THAT, UM, THAT TIME I'VE SPENT BRINGS SOMETHING HERE THAT I CAN HELP THIS BOARD [00:05:01] IN, IN THIS WITH, WITH THAT KNOWLEDGE. AND I'M GLAD TO BE HERE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND WE WELCOME YOU AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU. LASTLY, I WANNA REMIND THE BOARD THAT WE WILL CONDUCT THE ANNUAL PERFORMANCE EVALUATION OF DR. STOUT DURING OUR NOVEMBER 13TH BOARD MEETING AND PLAN TO DISCUSS HIS CONTRACT. IF AT ALL POSSIBLE, WE'D LIKE TO HAVE ALL MEMBERS IN ATTENDANCE TO PROVIDE INPUT DURING THIS VERY IMPORTANT AGENDA ITEM. MS. ZI HALEY WILL BE IN TOUCH WITH YOU AS ALWAYS, BUT IF YOU KNOW OF ANY CONFLICTS IN YOUR SCHEDULE, PLEASE LET HER KNOW AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. AND WITH THAT, I CONCLUDE MY REPORT. AT THIS TIME, WE'LL OPEN THE FLOOR FOR PUBLIC COMMENT AND INVITE ANY MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC THAT WISHES TO SPEAK TO COME TO THE PODIUM AND ADDRESS THE BOARD. WE ASK ALL SPEAKERS TO SIGN IN AT THE FRONT OF THE ROOM SO THAT WE'RE AWARE OF YOUR PRESENCE AND THAT ALL COMMENTS ARE LIMITED TO THREE MINUTES. YOU MAY SPEAK ON ANY MATTER CONCERNING THE BOARD AND HFSC AT THIS TIME. DO WE HAVE ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE WHO HAS SIGNED UP FOR PUBLIC COMMENT? SEEING NO MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC IN OUR AUDIENCE TODAY, WE HAVE SIGNED WHO HAVE SIGNED UP. I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD. NOW WE'LL CONSIDER MEETING MINUTES FROM THE JULY 10TH BOARD MEETING. DOES ANYONE HAVE CORRECTIONS OR ADDITIONS TO THE MINUTES AS PRESENTED AT THIS POINT? WHIP THROUGH HERE. AT THIS POINT, WE WILL CONDUCT A VOICE. VOTE TO APPROVE THE MINUTES. MAY I HAVE A MOTION? SO MOVED. THANK YOU. AND SECOND. SECOND. WHO DO YOU WANT THAT? OKAY. THANK YOU. PLEASE UNMUTE YOUR MICS AT THIS TIME FOR THE VOICE VOTE. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED SAY AYE. THE MOTION CARRIES UNANIMOUSLY. I UNDERSTAND. I WASN'T HERE. OH, SO YOU JUST REFRAINED FROM VOTING? YEAH. YEAH. WOULD YOU HAVE VOTED FOR NO . OKAY. MEMBERS, YOU RECEIVED A SUMMARY SHEET AND ADDITIONAL INFORMATION FROM OUR GENERAL COUNSEL, MS. MATTZ, REGARDING THIS AGREEMENT. IS EVERYONE OKAY? IF YOU'LL RECALL, SIGNATURE SCIENCE IS A PRIVATE LAB THAT WE FREQUENTLY USE TO OUTSOURCE DNA CASES, AND WE'VE BEEN UTILIZING THEM FOR THE PAST FEW YEARS. DR. CASTILLO WORKS ON THIS PROJECT VERY CLOSELY WITH THIS VENDOR IN OUR FORENSIC BIOLOGY SECTION. SO I'M GONNA TURN IT OVER TO DR. CASTILLO FOR ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION FOR US TO CONSIDER DR. CASTILLO. YES. SO THIS IS A, UM, THE SAME CONTRACT WE'VE BEEN WORKING UNDER, HOWEVER, WE'RE SWITCHING GRANT SOURCES. SO WE STARTED THIS PROJECT USING CITY OF HOUSTON FUNDS, AND THEN WE MOVED TO THE FY 24 GRANT AWARD, WHICH WE ARE GOING TO BE EXPENDING THOSE FUNDS IN THE NEXT MONTH OR SO. AND SO WE NEED TO MOVE IT TO THE FY 25 GRANT FUNDS. SO IT IS THE CONTINUATION OF THE PROJECT WE'VE BEEN RUNNING. THIS WILL BE THE LAST CONTRACT, AND IT WAS A TWO YEAR PROJECT. UM, AND IT WAS DONE, THEY WERE SELECTED USING AN RFP AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF THAT TWO YEARS. TO GIVE YOU A HEADS UP, COME JANUARY, WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT THIS AGAIN. 'CAUSE THIS FALL WE'RE GONNA BE DOING ANOTHER RFP, UM, TO CONTINUE THIS PROJECT, THIS OUTSOURCING, IT'S MAINLY SEXUAL ASSAULT KITS, HAS BEEN KEY IN WHAT WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO DO AROUND KEEPING OUR KIDS UNDER 90 DAYS WHILE WE CONTINUE TO BUILD CAPACITY IN FORENSIC BIOLOGY. SO WE ANTICIPATE CONTINUING IT UNTIL WE HAVE THE, WE'RE CONFIDENT WE HAVE THE CAPACITY INTERNALLY TO BE WORKING ALL OF THEM IN HOUSE AND KEEPING THAT TURNAROUND TIME. THANK YOU. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS? UH, ALL QUESTION. WHAT, WHAT IS THE GRANT SOURCE? I'M SORRY. UH, JUST QUICK, UH, GRANT SOURCE, CAN YOU, THE GRANT SOURCE YOU MIC ON, PUT YOU, OH, YEAH. UH, JUST QUICK QUESTION, WHAT'S THE SOURCE OF THE GRANT? IT'S THE, UM, FEDERAL GRANT THAT BIOLOGY CAPACITY ENHANCEMENT AND BACKLOG REDUCTION. UM, SO BOTH, BOTH TIMES IT'S BEEN ON THE GRANT, IT'S UNDER THE SAME PROGRAM. WE GENERALLY GET A RENEWAL OF THAT PROGRAM EVERY YEAR. UM, WE ARE CURRENTLY WAITING ON OUR FY 26, SO WE STILL ARE IN THE SAME POSITION. WE HAVE BEEN OF SOME UNKNOWN, UM, TIME OF THAT. WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO CONTINUE IT WITH GRANT FUNDS NEXT YEAR. GOOD. THANK YOU. MM-HMM . ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? IF THERE ARE NO ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS, WE'LL NOW HAVE A VOICE VOTE TO APPROVE THE CONTRACT BETWEEN [00:10:01] SIGNATURE SCIENCE OH. SIGNATURE SCIENCE LLC AND THE CORPORATION FOR FORENSIC OUTSOURCING SERVICES IN THE FORENSIC BIOLOGY SECTION. THE TOTAL BUDGET, ONE MOMENT TOTAL BUDGET SHOULD SAY NOT TO, I THINK . THE TOTAL BUDGET NOT TO EXCEED $429,520. MEMBERS, PLEASE UNMUTE YOUR MICS AT THIS TIME. DO I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE AS PRESENTED? SO MOVED. OKAY. I BELIEVE. THANK YOU. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? SECOND. OKAY. AT THIS TIME WE'LL HAVE A VOICE VOTE. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAY. THE MOTION CARRIES. WHEN DETER STOUT RETURNS, HE WILL EXECUTE THE CONTRACT ON BEHALF OF THE ORGANIZATION MEMBERS. THE AGREEMENT BEFORE US WILL ALLOW HFSC TO PROVIDE SERVICES TO THE METRO POLICE DEPARTMENT FOR A FEE IN YEARS PAST. THE BOARD HAS ASKED ABOUT OPPORTUNITIES FOR HFSC TO SERVE AS AN OUTSOURCED LAB TO OTHER AGENCIES, AND THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY THAT MAKES SENSE FOR HFSC AT THIS TIME. I KNOW WE'RE SENSITIVE TO CAPACITY ISSUES IN CERTAIN SECTIONS, HOWEVER, STAFF ASSURED US STAFF ASSURED US THAT THE EXISTING POLICIES AND PROCEDURES WILL ALLOW US TO BALANCE THESE REQUESTS WITH OUR OBLIGATIONS TO HPD. BECAUSE METRO HAS A SIMILAR GOVERNANCE INSTRUCTION TO HFSC, BOTH ORGANIZATIONS CAN ONLY ENTER INTO THIS AGREEMENT IF APPROVED BY THEIR RESPECTIVE BOARDS. SO THIS IS BEING PRESENTED TO US FOR A VOTE TODAY. PLEASE NOTE THE METRO BOARD OF DIRECTORS HAS ALREADY APPROVED THE AGREEMENT. DR. CASTILLO, CAN YOU PROVIDE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON THIS ITEM? YES. SO THE FIRST IMPORTANT PIECE OF INFORMATION IS THE WORK THAT IS BEING DISCUSSED DID ACTUALLY USED TO COME THROUGH HPD, SO IT'S NOT NEW WORK TO US IN THAT SENSE. THERE'S BEEN SOME CHANGES BETWEEN HOW HPD AND METRO INTERACT AND THAT REQUIRED THE NEED FOR METRO TO STILL HAVE A WAY FOR US TO DO THE WORK. AND THAT'S WHAT, UM, STEMMED THIS CONVERSATION OR STARTED THIS CONVERSATION. THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN, THE CRITICAL PART IS WE ARE ABLE TO SAY NO IF WE DON'T HAVE THE CAPACITY FOR SOMETHING. UM, AND IT, THE PRICES ARE DIFFERENT. SO SAY IN BLOOD ALCOHOL, RIGHT NOW, WE DO HAVE THE BANDWIDTH TO TAKE ON SOME CASES IN FIREARMS WE DO NOT . UM, SO WE WOULD BE SAYING, NO, WE DON'T HAVE THE CAPACITY TO TAKE EXTRA FIREARMS WORK, BUT WE COULD HELP WITH BLOOD ALCOHOL, WE COULD HELP WITH SEIZED DRUGS. UM, SO THAT'S KIND OF HOW WE'LL MANAGE THAT INTERNALLY IS MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE NOT JUST BLINDLY TAKING CASES. THERE WILL STILL ALWAYS BE THAT QUESTION, EVEN THOUGH THE AGREEMENT IS IN PLACE OF DO WE HAVE CAPACITY FOR THIS WORK? THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS FOR DR. CASTILLO? YES, I DO. UM, CAN YOU KIND OF TALK ABOUT THE CONTEXT OF WHAT THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN HPD AND AND METRO? THE, THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE ORGANIZATIONS OR WHAT CHANGED? UH, I GUESS IN WORKING WITH, UH, WITH US, I WOULD SAY I DON'T KNOW YET. OKAY. BECAUSE TYPICALLY WHAT WAS HAPPENING IS METRO WAS COLLABORATING WITH HPD ON AN INVESTIGATION, AND HPD WOULD BE, THAT REQUEST WOULD BE COMING FROM HPD. SO WE HAVEN'T DONE A LOT OF INDEPENDENT WORK WITH METRO UP TO THIS POINT. UM, BUT WE ALSO, WE HAVE LEARNED JUST IN GENERAL, UM, ESPECIALLY WITH FEE FOR SERVICE WORK, FOR EXAMPLE, WE KNOW PEOPLE DON'T LIKE TO PICK UP EVIDENCE. AND SO WE'VE, I'M SORRY, WE, WE, THEY DON'T LIKE TO PICK UP EVIDENCE , THEY LIKE TO BRING EVIDENCE AND HAVE US WORK IT, AND THEN IT SITS. SO WE'VE, WE'VE LEARNED THINGS JUST IN THE PAST WITH OTHER ORGANIZATIONS THAT WE DON'T ISSUE THEIR, WE DON'T HAND OVER THE REPORT UNTIL THEY PICK UP THE EVIDENCE. SO I THINK THOSE ARE THINGS WE'VE LEARNED IN THE PAST THAT WE'LL IMPLEMENT PROACTIVELY GOING IN BECAUSE IT'S NOT AN ORGANIZATION WE'VE WORKED INDEPENDENTLY WITH PRIOR. THANK YOU. MM-HMM . THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? IF THERE ARE NO ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS, WE'LL NOW HAVE A VOICE VOTE TO APPROVE THE AGREEMENT. PLEASE UNMUTE YOUR MICS. DO I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CORPORATION AND METRO POLICE FOR THE CORPORATION TO PROVIDE FORENSIC SERVICES? SO MOVE. OKAY. THANK YOU. DO I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND. WE GOT A SECOND. OKAY. AT THIS TIME WE'LL HAVE A VOICE VOTE. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. I'LL OPPOSE NAY. THANK YOU. [00:15:01] THE MOTION CARRIES. DR. STOUT WILL EXECUTE THE AGREEMENT ON BEHALF OF THE ORGANIZATION. NOW I HAVE A PRESENTATION FROM AMY. ONE MOMENT. OKAY. OKAY. OKAY. NOW WE'LL HAVE A REPORT FROM DR. CASTILLO , VICE PRESIDENT AND COO ON OVERVIEW OF OPERATIONS AND TECHNICAL UPDATES, ANOTHER CORPORATE BUSINESS ITEMS. OKAY. THANK YOU. YOU'RE WELCOME. I HAVE SOME SHORT UPDATES FOR Y'ALL TODAY. UM, THE FIRST UPDATE IS JUST GOING BACK THROUGH THE BACKLOGS THAT WE CONTINUE TO TALK ABOUT, UM, THAT WE'RE KEEPING A CLOSE EYE ON. IN BOTH FORENSIC BIOLOGY AND SEIZE DRUGS, WE, WE CONTINUE TO SEE VAST IMPROVEMENT, UM, AND A DECLINING. THAT BEING SAID, WITH THE BUDGET THAT WAS APPROVED, UM, WE DID HAVE TO MAKE THE DECISION THAT JULY WAS THE LAST MONTH THAT WE WERE DOING AN OVERTIME SLASH INCENTIVE PROGRAM THAT WE HAD PUT IN PLACE THAT DID HELP, UM, REDUCE THOSE BACKLOGS. AND SO IN BOTH OF THOSE SECTIONS, WE ARE GONNA BE KEEPING A CLOSE EYE ON THE IMPACT OF THAT OVER THE NEXT FEW MONTHS. UM, SO WE ARE NOT GONNA BE SHOCKED IF WE SEE THE BACKLOGS CREEPING UP A LITTLE BIT. WE'RE DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN INTERNALLY TO KEEP IT UNDER CONTROL. UM, UM, THANKFULLY BECAUSE OF THE OUTSOURCING, WE ARE STILL ABLE TO KEEP THE KITS BELOW 90 DAYS, WHICH IS A REALLY CRITICAL COMPONENT OF, OF, UM, WHAT WE NEED TO DO. AND IN SEIZE DRUGS, WE ACTUALLY ARE PLANNING ON GETTING SOME NEW EXAMINERS SIGNED OFF AT THE BEGINNING OF 2027. SO EVEN IF WE SEE IT BUMPING UP A LITTLE BIT, WE ANTICIPATE WHEN WE GET THOSE THREE EXAMINERS SIGNED OFF, WE WILL BE FULLY STAFFED AND WE WILL START SEEING IT GO DOWN AGAIN, REGARDLESS OF HAVING AN INCENTIVE PLAN. THE FORENSIC BIOLOGY SECTION WE JUST HIRED OUR NEXT ROUND, SO WE'RE STILL A LONG WAY AWAY FROM THEM BEING ABLE TO CONTRIBUTE, UM, TO THE BACKLOG, BUT WE'RE WORKING ON IT. AND THEN IN FIREARMS, WE ARE STILL WORKING ON STAFFING. UM, AND I'M REALLY EXCITED TODAY THAT, UM, KIM ZELLER, A SUPERVISOR IN FIREARMS AND MELISSA NALLY, WHO IS A FORENSIC LEAD EXAMINER IN FIREARMS, ARE GONNA BE GIVING A PRESENTATION ON SOME HISTORY AND BACKGROUND OF OUR STAFFING CHALLENGES AND WHAT WE'VE DONE IN THE PAST IN FIREARMS. UM, AND THEN ALSO ABOUT 3D SCOPES BECAUSE THAT IS, IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT TO HAVE TO MAKE THE DECISION THAT IN SUCH A CAPACITY CRUNCH WE HAVE TO VALIDATE A NEW TECHNOLOGY. UM, BUT WE DO NEED TO BRING THIS TECHNOLOGY ONLINE. SO I'M EXCITED FOR Y'ALL TO HEAR WHY AND WHAT WE'RE DOING TO, TO GET THERE. OKAY. THE OTHER UPDATE IS AN UPDATE TO WHAT HAS BEEN CLIENT SERVICES AND CASE MANAGEMENT FOR THE HOUSTON FORENSIC SCIENCE CENTER. SO THAT ORG, THAT DEPARTMENT WAS FORMED WHEN THE HOUSTON FORENSIC SCIENCE CENTER WAS FORMED. AND I WOULD SAY OVER THE YEARS IT CHANGED, TOOK ON MORE THINGS. UM, IT DEFINITELY GREW INTO A LIFE OF ITS OWN. WHAT WE FOUND IN THE PAST YEARS IS IT REALLY DEVELOPED INTO TWO SET TWO TEAMS WITHIN CLIENT SERVICES AND CASE MANAGEMENT. ONE OF THE TEAMS IS FOCUSED ON EVIDENCE MANAGEMENT AND OPERATIONS. SO THEY'RE THE GROUP THAT EVERY DAY GOES AND GETS THE EVIDENCE THAT WE NEED FOR TESTING FROM THE PROPERTY ROOM. THEY INSPECT THE EVIDENCE, THEY MAKE SURE IT, IT MEETS OUR REQUIREMENTS TO BRING IT OVER. THEY ALSO TAKE EVIDENCE BACK EVERY DAY. THEY STAGE EVIDENCE FOR SEIZE DRUGS. THEY DO A SESSIONING FOR TOXICOLOGY, WHICH BASICALLY MEANS THEY OPEN AND INSPECT THE BLOOD ALCOHOL KITS BEFORE THEY EVER GO TO THE TOXICOLOGY UNIT. UM, THEY ALSO ARE IN CHARGE OF GOING AND GETTING EVIDENCE FROM THE HARRIS COUNTY MORGUE. THAT MAY BE ACTUALLY ALL OF IT GOES TO THE PROPERTY ROOM, BUT SO IT'S THERE IF WE NEED IT FOR TESTING. SO THAT WAS ONE PART OF THAT ORGANIZATION. THE OTHER PART, IT WAS RECORDS MANAGEMENT AND OUR FRONT DOOR. AND SO THAT'S THE PIECE THAT REALLY HAS GROWN OVER THE, THE DEVELOPMENT OF HFSC. SO THEY HANDLE ALL DISCOVERY ORDERS, RECORDS REQUESTS, PHONE CALLS, UM, EVERY , EVERYTHING YOU CAN THINK OF AROUND THE FRONT DOOR AND WHEN PEOPLE NEED SOMETHING OTHER THAN FORENSIC ANALYSIS. AND SO WHAT WE NOTICED IS REALLY THEY WORK EVERY DAY WITH THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT. SO DISCOVERY ORDERS, RECORDS REQUEST, ALL THOSE THINGS. THEY'RE CONSTANTLY INTERACTING AND COLLABORATING WITH THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT. SO WHEN, IF Y'ALL RECALL, ASHLEY HENRY, WHO USED TO BE THE SENIOR MANAGER OF THIS SECTION, PROMOTED INTO CRIME SCENE. WE HAD A SECOND TO THINK ABOUT THE STRUCTURE OF THIS ORGANIZATION BECAUSE WE KNEW THAT WAS GONNA CREATE A, AS IT ALWAYS [00:20:01] DOES, LIKE A ROLL DOWN EFFECT OF PROMOTIONS AND CHANGES IN A SECTION. AND WHAT WE FOUND AND DECIDED IS IT ACTUALLY MADE MORE SENSE TO SPLIT THEM AND HAVE A RECORDS MANAGEMENT TEAM THAT WOULD REPORT INSIDE OF LEGAL. SO THEY WOULD BE REPORTING UP THROUGH AQUILA IN THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT, AND THEN WE WOULD HAVE THE EVIDENCE MANAGEMENT AND OPERATIONS TEAM THAT WOULD REMAIN IN OPERATIONS AND UNDER ME. SO WE HAVE RECENTLY MADE THAT CHANGE. IT I THINK IS LOVELY TO SEE. WE MADE THE RIGHT DECISION. WE'VE ACTUALLY GOTTEN VERY LITTLE PUSHBACK AND VERY FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT WHY WE ARE ALMOST LIKE, WHY DIDN'T THIS MAKE SENSE YEARS AGO? UM, SO WE'RE REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THE OPPORTUNITY IT'S GIVEN US TO HAVE IT MAKE MORE SENSE AND ALSO GROWTH FOR STAFF. UM, ESPECIALLY IN THAT RECORDS MANAGEMENT AREA, WE NOW HAVE A PARALEGAL POSITION THAT SOMEBODY WAS ABLE TO PROMOTE, PROMOTE INTO. WE HAVE SENIOR ADMINS VERSUS LIKE ENTRY LEVEL ADMINS. SO WE'RE REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THOSE OPPORTUNITIES AS WELL THAT IT GIVES STAFF THAT ARE DEALING WITH THAT PART OF OUR ORGANIZATION. THE SAME KIND OF CHANCES TO GROW IS IN FORENSICS. SO, UM, SO I WANTED Y'ALL TO BE AWARE OF THAT CHANGE THOUGH WE ARE STILL WORKING ON UPDATING THE WEBSITE. UM, WE DIDN'T, HOW PEOPLE COMMUNICATE US HAS STAYED WITH US, HAS STAYED THE SAME. SO THAT HASN'T CREATED ANY RIPPLE EFFECTS, BUT YOU'RE GONNA START SEEING LIKE CSCM GO AWAY ON OUR WEBSITE AND HAVE THESE OTHER TWO TEAMS UNDER THERE. SO JUST, THAT'S WHERE THAT IS COMING FROM. ANY QUESTIONS ON THAT? OKAY. THE OTHER UPDATE WE HAVE, THIS IS NOT AS FUN, UM, . SO WE WANTED TO GIVE Y'ALL A HEADS UP BECAUSE WE DO BELIEVE OCTOBER WILL BE A ROUGH MONTH FOR, FOR HFSC. SO AS Y'ALL MAY OR MAY NOT KNOW HPD, WELL, THEY'VE BEEN WORKING ON TRANSITIONING TO A NEW RECORDS MANAGEMENT AND EVIDENCE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM FOR A WHILE NOW. RIGHT NOW THEIR GO LIVE DATE IS SLATED OCTOBER 10TH. UM, AND THEY'RE UNDER AN IMMENSE AMOUNT OF PRESSURE AND THAT IS A HUGE PROJECT FOR THEM TO GET THROUGH. THE THING IS IT DOES IMPACT US QUITE A BIT, THEM CHANGING THAT SYSTEM. UM, ONE BIG CHANGE IS THEY'VE ALWAYS BEEN IN A RECORDS MANAGEMENT SYSTEM THAT IS SEPARATE FROM THEIR EVIDENCE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM. NOW THAT'S COMBINED. SO THEM CHANGING, THIS ALSO IS CHANGING THE SYSTEM THAT WE INTERACT WITH ON A DAILY BASIS, WHICH IS THE EVIDENCE MANAGEMENT. SO WE HAVE IN OUR, FOR OUR REQUESTS, WE HAVE A PORTAL THAT TALKS TO THEIR EVIDENCE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM SO THAT WHEN A REQUEST COMES OVER, OUR ANALYSTS FOR THE MOST PART DON'T HAVE TO MANUALLY ENTER EVERY ITEM THAT'S BEING REQUESTED. IT COMES OVER FROM THAT SYSTEM. UM, SO THAT'S HAVING TO BE REBUILT BECAUSE NOW WE NEED OUR PORTAL TO BE TALKING TO A NEW SYSTEM. SO WE'RE WORKING ON THAT. THE OTHER ASPECT THAT'S REALLY GONNA BE A BIG CHANGE, LIKE THE ITEM NUMBER FORMATS ARE CHANGING. UM, THE, THE INCIDENT NUMBER FORMAT FOR HPD IS CHANGING. THAT IMPACTS ALL OF OUR REPORTS BECAUSE CURRENTLY THAT DATA IS ALL ON OUR REPORTS, AND SO WE HAVE TO RECODE TO ALLOW FOR THESE NEW FORMATS. AND SO AGAIN, THAT'S ALL BEING WORKED ON RIGHT NOW. UM, THAT BEING SAID, WE'RE ABOUT 70% READY AT THE MOMENT. WE ANTICIPATE BEING READY WHEN IT GOES LIVE, BUT IT IS TECHNOLOGY. WHAT DOES THAT DO TO THE OLD, ALL THE OLD ONES? UM, THEY'RE MIGRATING OVER THE DATA. SO OLD ITEMS WILL GET NEW FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, AND PRECIOUS IS HERE TO HELP ANSWER, UM, DETAILED QUESTIONS. BUT THE OLD ITEMS WILL HAVE THE OLD ITEM NUMBER AND THE NEW ITEM NUMBER. AND SO THAT FOR US, SO WE'RE REALLY PLANNING THAT IT'S GONNA BE A SLOW MONTH BECAUSE OUR ANALYSTS ARE GONNA HAVE TO BE LOOKING AND MAKING SURE WITH AN ITEM THAT MAY HAVE COME TO US PRIOR, THAT WE'RE NOT GETTING SOMETHING WRONG WITH THOSE ITEM NUMBERS. AND THAT DOES FREQUENTLY HAPPEN FOR US. THAT ITEMS COME BACK AND FORTH OR A NEW ITEM IS TAGGED IN A CASE. SO BETWEEN THE CHANGES TO WHAT OUR EXAMINERS ARE GONNA SEE, BUT ALSO THE CHANGES THAT ARE HAPPENING TO THE INTERACTIONS BETWEEN OUR SYSTEMS, WE JUST ARE, WE'RE PREPPING THAT THIS ISN'T GOING TO BE A SMOOTH PROCESS. UM, SO THAT'S WHY WE WANTED TO GET IT ON THE RADAR BECAUSE WE DO THINK OCTOBER, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO MOVE SLOWER AS WE GET THIS, UM, GET USED TO THIS NEW SYSTEM. AMY, DOES IT IMPACT THE PUBLIC IN ANY WAY? UH, PARTICULARLY SURVIVORS SPEAK UP. JUST SPEAK UP A LOUDER. YEAH. DOES IT IMPACT THE PUBLIC OR HOW DOES IT IMPACT THE PUBLIC? I THINK FROM THE LAB PERSPECTIVE, WE WOULD TRY TO MITIGATE ANY IMPACTS TO, TO LIKE, AND FOR KITS, RIGHT? THANKFULLY THOSE ARE NORMALLY LIKE ONE ITEM ON A REPORT. SO I DON'T THINK THAT'S GONNA BE AS BIG OF AN IMPACT FROM AN HPD PERSPECTIVE. I KNOW THAT, AND THAT'S PART OF WHY I THINK WE'VE BEEN TRYING ON OUR ON, ON OUR OWN TO BE READY FROM OUR END. BECAUSE I THINK FROM AN HPD END, THERE'S A LOT MORE RISK THAT THE PUBLIC WOULD SEE IF THIS [00:25:01] ROLLOUT DID NOT GO SMOOTHLY. SO WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON OUR AS MUCH AS WE CAN WITHOUT TAKING AWAY BANDWIDTH THAT HPD NEEDS TO DO WHAT THEY NEED TO DO TO BE READY TO TRY TO BE AS READY AS POSSIBLE. I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT HAVING VISITED THE, UH, EVIDENCE ROOM. THAT THING IS SUCH A MONSTER. IS A PARTICULAR PIECE OF EVIDENCE GOING TO HAVE TO BE RETAGGED OR WILL IT JUST BE IN THE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM? IT'LL JUST BE IN THE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM. SO, BUT I WOULD IMAGINE THERE MIGHT BE LIKE IF, IF THAT IT'S JUST IN THE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM. IF IT NEVER, IF IT DOESN'T LEAVE PROPERTY AGAIN, BUT IF IT COMES OVER TO US, IT'S PROBABLY GONNA HAVE TO HAVE AN UPDATED LABEL. OKAY. THAT, THAT'S WHAT I'M IMAGINING. BUT SOME OF IT'S GOING TO BE AS WE YEAH, I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT ALL THE OLD STUFF IN THERE THAT YEAH, NO, THE OLD, THE OLD, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, THE OLD ITEM WILL MIGRATE OVER. IT JUST ALSO GETS A NEW, IT'S A NEW ITEM IN THEIR SYSTEM. AND BECAUSE PART OF THAT IS BECAUSE THE FORMAT'S SO DIFFERENT. IT USED TO JUST BE A NUMERIC NUMBER. AND NOW THERE'S, WHEN THEY, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, AND PRECIOUS, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, UM, WHEN THEY TAG EVIDENCE, SO IF THEY BRING IN FIVE ITEMS THE FIRST TIME, THERE'S A REPORT ONE AND AN ITEM ONE THROUGH FIVE. OKAY. IF THEY COME TWO DAYS LATER AND TAKE FIVE MORE ITEMS, THERE'S A REPORT TWO AND AN ITEM ONE THROUGH FIVE. SO IT'S LIKE 2 1, 2, 2. SO THAT'S A LOT FOR US TO GET USED TO AS WELL. OUR REPORTS ARE GENERALLY ALREADY CONFUSING, UM, ESPECIALLY LIKE IN FIREARMS WHERE YOU'RE TRYING TO SAY LIKE, THIS ITEM IS THIS ITEM AND NOW IT'S GONNA HAVE MULTIPLE ITEM NUMBERS, UM, AND A VERY, AND THAT'S SUCH A DIFFERENT FORMAT THAN WHAT WE'RE USED TO SEEING. AND ALSO THE INCIDENT NUMBER IS NOW A GENERAL ORDER NUMBER AND IT'S ALPHA NUMERIC VERSUS JUST THE NINE DIGITS. IS THERE A REASON THAT THIS IS, THIS NEW SYSTEM IS BEING INTEGRATED? IS IT JUST BETTER TECHNOLOGY? IS IT TIME TO UPDATE? THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING. OKAY. THAT IS MY UNDERSTANDING. AND I DO KNOW, UM, WITH HPDA LOT WAS SAID WHEN THE SL CODE ISSUE HAPPENED THAT THE NEW SYSTEM ALLOWS THEM TO BETTER TRACK AND CODE THINGS. SO I THINK IT WAS ALSO HELPING WITH THAT ISSUE AS WELL. AND SO IT'S JUST, IT'S ALWAYS PAINFUL TO UPGRADE . ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? OKAY. THAT WAS MY WHOLE PRESENTATION, SO, UM, I'M REALLY EXCITED THAT Y'ALL GET TO HEAR FROM FIREARMS DIRECTLY TODAY ABOUT EVERYTHING THEY'RE, THEY'RE WORKING ON. YEAH. THANK YOU. THANK YOU DR. CASTILLO. UM, NOW WE'RE GONNA PROCEED TO AGENDA ITEM NINE. AND AS DR. CASTILLO SAID TODAY, WE'RE EXCITED TO HAVE REPRESENTATION FROM OUR FIREARM SECTION TO PRESENT SOME OF THE CHALLENGES. I THINK WE'VE HEARD A FEW AND OPPORTUNITIES ON THE HORIZON AS DR. STOUTS HAS BEEN TELLING US FOR QUITE SOME TIME. FIREARMS IS AT A CRITICAL JUNCTION AT HFSC AND IN THE FIELD GENERALLY, SO WE WANT TO BE SURE TO GET AS MUCH INFORMATION ABOUT THESE ISSUES AS POSSIBLE. THIS PRESENTATION IS JUST ONE OF THE WAYS WE CAN DO THAT. WE LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING FROM MS. ZELLER AND MS. NALLY TODAY. UM, WHO CHOOSES TO BE FIRST? MS. ZELLER? VERY GOOD. PLEASE JOIN US. WELCOME. THANK YOU. GOOD MORNING. MY NAME IS KIMBERLY ZELLER AND I'M ONE OF THE SUPERVISORS IN THE FIREARM SECTION. I WAS ASKED TO COME SPEAK TO YOU TODAY ABOUT SOME OF THE CHALLENGES REGARDING TRAINING, EMPLOYEE TURNOVER, AND HOW THOSE DIRECTLY IMPACT THE CASEWORK BACKLOG. THE FIREARM SECTION HAS EXISTED SINCE THE FIRST HALF OF THE LAST CENTURY. A LETTER DATED 1954 INQUIRING ABOUT FIREARMS EXAMINER POSITIONS AT HPD WAS FOUND DURING OUR MOVE TO JEFFERSON, AND IT REVEALED THAT THE HPD FIREARM SECTION WAS ESTABLISHED IN 1940. THIS IS VERY MUCH BEFORE MY TIME, SO I WILL ONLY BE FOCUSING ON MORE RECENT HISTORY FROM THIS CENTURY AND NOT DISCUSSING ANYTHING FROM THE 19 HUNDREDS. OKAY. THROUGH THE EARLY TO MID TWO THOUSANDS, THE FIREARMS SECTION HAS BEEN STABLE WITH A TOTAL NUMBER OF SIX EXAMINERS. AND THEN IN 2008, FOUR NEW TRAINEES JOINED THE GROUP. THERE WAS A LARGE HISTORICAL BACKLOG, AND I DON'T HAVE ACCURATE NUMBERS FROM THIS TIME PERIOD TO SHARE DUE TO THE AGE OF THAT DATA, BUT A BEST GUESS IS THAT THERE WAS A BACKLOG OF ROUGHLY 300 CASES. IN 2010, THE FOUR NEW EXAMINERS INCREASED THE EXAMINER TOTAL TO 10 AND BEGAN CONDUCTING CASEWORK. WHEN YOU SEE NAMES UNDER THE PICTURES, THOSE ARE THE EXAMINERS THAT ARE STILL CURRENTLY IN THE FIREARM SECTION. DONNA, OUR MANAGER, IS THE ONLY REMAINING EXAMINER FROM THE ORIGINAL SIX IN 2008, AND CHANDLER AND I ARE THE ONLY ONES REMAINING FROM THE 2010 [00:30:01] TRAINING GROUP. HAVING 10 EXAMINERS IN THIS SECTION CREATED AN OPPORTUNITY TO REDUCE THE HISTORICAL BACKLOG. BACKLOG REDUCTION REQUIRES SIGNIFICANT CHANGE MANAGEMENT AND PLANNING. AND THAT STARTED WITH THE MINDSET SHIFT, MOVING FROM PERSONAL BACKLOGS WHERE EACH EXAMINER HAS CASES ADDED TO AN EVER-GROWING LIST TOWARD A TEAM OR SECTION BACKLOG WHERE EVERYONE, EVERYONE WORKS FROM THE SAME MAIN QUEUE. WE WERE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER AND WE ALL NEEDED VISIBILITY ON THE BACKLOG. ANOTHER PART OF THE BACKLOG REDUCTION PLAN WAS PROCESS IMPROVEMENT, FIGURING OUT WHERE WE COULD INCREASE EFFICIENCY WITHOUT SACRIFICING QUALITY. ASKING THOSE HARD QUESTIONS OF WHY ARE WE DOING IT THIS WAY? IS THERE A BETTER WAY? AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHAT SHOULD WE STOP DOING? THIS WAS THE POINT IN TIME WHERE SOME RARELY REQUESTED SERVICES WERE REMOVED FROM THE SECTIONS OPERATIONS. THE LAST PIECE OF THE PLAN WAS TO ENSURE OUR RESOURCES WERE NOT WASTED, THE STAKEHOLDERS WERE CONTACTED IN CASES WERE NO, THAT WERE NO LONGER NEEDED, WERE CLOSED. WEEKLY ONE-ON-ONES WERE SCHEDULED WITH MANAGEMENT TO DISCUSS IN-PROGRESS, WORK ANY ROADBLOCKS, AND TO TALK THROUGH DIFFICULT SCENARIOS TO ENSURE CASES WERE NOT STALLED IN THE PROCESS. EVEN THE BEST LAID PLANS CAN HAVE A SETBACK OR TWO. IN THE TWO YEARS BETWEEN 2012 AND 2014, WE LOST FOUR TRAINED EXAMINERS. THANKFULLY, THEY DID NOT ALL LEAVE AT THE SAME TIME. WE WERE ALSO ABLE TO ADD ONE TRAINED EXAMINER AND SIX NEW TRAINEES. THESE CHANGES HAD ITS PIVOTING IN A NEW DIRECTION. THE FOCUS MOVE FROM BACKLOG REDUCTION TO FULL ON TRAINING MODE. YOU CAN SEE THIS IS WHERE WE HAVE ADDED MELISSA, OUR FULLY TRAINED EXAMINER AND RYAN, CASSIE AND CAITLIN WERE PART OF THE NEW TRAINEES. IF YOU'RE KEEPING COUNT, THERE ARE NOW 13 EXAMINER POSITIONS IN THE SECTION. BY THE END OF 2014, THIS ERA OF TRAINING HAD A BLEND OF TRADITIONAL IN-HOUSE TRAINING DONE COMPLETELY BY TRAINED EXAMINERS IN THE SECTION. WE ALSO HIRED EXTERNAL TRAINERS, BROUGHT IN TO HELP, AND WE WERE GIVEN ONE SLOT AT THE ATFS NATIONAL FIREARMS EXAMINER ACADEMY FOR ONE OF THE TRAINEES. BY INCORPORATING MULTIPLE TRAINING METHODS, WE WERE ABLE TO SUCCESSFULLY TRAIN AND ONBOARD ALL BUT TWO OF THE NEW HIRES, BUT AT A SIGNIFICANT COST. THERE WERE FINANCIAL COSTS TO HIRING THE EXTERNAL TRAINERS AND THE INTERNAL COST TO CASEWORK OUTPUT. WHILE THE TRAINED EXAMINERS TOOK ON TRAINING DUTIES, THE EXTERNAL TRAINERS DID HELP EASE SOME OF THE TRAINING BURDEN, BUT THEY CAN ONLY PROGRESS THE TRAINING SO FAR THROUGH THE PROGRAM, SIGNIFICANT TRAINING WAS STILL NEEDED BY THE IN-HOUSE EXAMINERS. BY 2015. WE'RE ABOUT TO TURN A CORNER. WE WERE BACK TO 11 FULLY TRAINED EXAMINERS AND NO TRAINEES. AS YOU CAN SEE, DONNA, CHANDLER, ME, MELISSA, RYAN, CASSIE, AND CAITLIN ARE ALL STILL HERE. NOT EVERYONE STAYED OR MADE IT THROUGH THE TRAINING PROGRAM, BUT THOSE THAT DID WERE VERY HIGH QUALITY EXAMINERS AND THE BACKLOG WAS ELIMINATED IN 2015. THIS GRAPH DEMONSTRATES THE PROJECTED BACKLOG REDUCTION OR WHERE WE THOUGHT WE WOULD BE VERSUS WHERE WE ACTUALLY ENDED UP. YOU CAN SEE THE POINT WHERE ALL THE TRAINING EFFORTS PAID OFF AND THE STEEP DROP IN THE BACKLOG OCCURRED IN SUMMER OF 2015. FOR CLARITY, THE BACKLOG IS DEFINED AS CASES OVER 30 DAYS OLD FROM THE TIME OF REQUEST. ADDITIONALLY, WHEN WE PROJECTED OUR TIMELINE, SOME MAJOR ASSUMPTIONS HAD TO BE MADE. NO ONE LEAVES. WELL, AS YOU CAN TELL, FROM WHAT I'VE SAID, THAT'S NOT QUITE REALISTIC. NO DRAMATIC INCREASE IN CASE REQUESTS. ALSO BEYOND THE CONTROL OF THE SECTION, AND THAT EXAMINERS CAN MAINTAIN A PROJECTED AVERAGE OF CASEWORK OUTPUT A LITTLE MORE IN OUR CONTROL. BUT NEW EXAMINERS DO NEED TIME TO ADJUST TO CASEWORK WORKFLOW. NOW THAT WE'VE LOOKED AT OUR PAST SUCCESS, WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT OUR CURRENT SAD REALITY AND HOW WE GOT WHERE WE ARE TODAY. THERE WAS A PERIOD OF RELATIVE CALM BETWEEN 2015 AND 2020. ON THIS GRAPH, YOU CAN SEE A TIMELINE OF MAJOR EVENTS AND THE IMPACTS THEY HAD ON THE BACKLOG. FOR EXAMPLE, IN 2019, WE WERE PREPARING FOR THE MOVE TO 500 JEFFERSON AND ALSO IMPLEMENTING A NEW LIMB SYSTEM. THERE WAS A SMALL UPTICK IN THE BACKLOG, BUT NOTHING CATASTROPHIC. AND IT QUICKLY RESOLVED. WE WERE STILL OPERATING WITH 11 EXAMINERS AND NO TRAINEES. WE ALL KNOW WHAT HAPPENED IN 2020 AND THE IMPACTS OF COVID DIDN'T REALLY SET IN UNTIL 2021. THE COURTS WERE CLOSED, SO NOT MANY REQUESTS WERE COMING IN FROM THE DA'S OFFICE. MOST OF THE REQUESTS WERE FROM HPD BECAUSE CRIME DOESN'T STOP, NOT EVEN IN A PANDEMIC. THE INCREASE IN THE UPWARD SLOPE IS NOT AS DRAMATIC AN INCREASE. BUT YOU CAN SEE THAT WE WERE NOT ABLE TO KEEP UP WITH DEMAND LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. WE WERE ALSO LEARNING HOW TO NAVIGATE IN A PANDEMIC. THE WORLD AND THE COURTS REOPENED IN 2022 AS IS REFLECTED IN A SIGNIFICANT UPWARD SLOPE OF THE BACKLOG LINE. ANOTHER COMPONENT TO THIS IS THAT SINCE THE COURTS HAD BEEN CLOSED OR OPERATING IN A VERY LIMITED CAPACITY, AND AFTER REOPENING FULLY, THE DAS NEEDED RESULTS ON A PRIORITY BASIS BY ACCOMMODATING THE ADAS AND THE RUSH REQUESTS, ALL OTHER CASEWORK STOPPED. THE OLDEST [00:35:01] CASES KEPT GETTING OLDER, AND MANY INVESTIGATIVE CASES SAT UNTOUCHED IN THE QUEUE. WE WERE PLAYING WHACK-A-MOLE WITH EVERY PRIORITY REQUEST, AND THEY WERE ALL ON FIRE. THE LAST MOST SIGNIFICANT SPIKE SHOWS WHERE STAFF TURNOVER INCREASED AND ANOTHER ROUND OF TRAINEES WAS HIRED. WE'LL DISCUSS THIS IN MORE DETAIL IN A MOMENT. ANOTHER COMPONENT TO THE CHALLENGES IN THE SECTION RELATES TO CHANGES IN TRAINING REQUIREMENTS AND THE EVOLUTION OF FORENSICS. IN GENERAL, THE STATE OF TEXAS REQUIRES LICENSING OF FORENSIC ANALYSTS IN MOST DISCIPLINES, DOCUMENTATION REQUIREMENTS HAVE BECOME MORE DEMANDING. THE FIREARMS DISCIPLINE HAS BEEN SUBJECT TO COURTROOM CHALLENGES, AND THERE ARE GENERATIONAL CHANGES BETWEEN AGE GROUPS THAT HAVE REQUIRED TRAINING ADJUSTMENTS, OSSEC STANDARD IMPLEMENTATION, IMPLEMENTATION IN THE SECTION, AND LACK OF FULL-TIME TRAINERS ON STAFF. THESE OUTSIDE CHALLENGES ARE NOT INHERENTLY BAD. IN FACT, I WOULD ARGUE THAT MANY OF THESE CHALLENGES ARE BENEFICIAL TO FORENSICS, BUT THAT DOES NOT NEGATE THE FACT THAT THEY DO COME AT A COST AND DO IMPACT TRAINING TIMELINES AND CASEWORK OUTPUT. OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS, TRAINING TIMES HAVE INCREASED FROM TWO TO THREE YEARS FOR A FIREARMS EXAMINER. LET'S REVISIT THIS CHART FOR JUST A MOMENT AND I'D LIKE TO POINT YOUR ATTENTION TO THE JULY, 2022. NOVEMBER, 2023 SPIKE. IN CASES, THERE WAS AN INCREASE OF ABOUT 150 REQUESTS IN THE BACKLOG JUST DURING THIS TIME. HERE ARE SOME OF THE MAJOR EVENTS THAT OCCURRED IN THIS TIMEFRAME. SIGNIFICANT TURNOVER OF NIB TECHNICIANS THAT REQUIRED A LARGE IN-HOUSE INVESTMENT TO TRAIN NEW STAFF EXAMINER TURNOVER. WHERE WE LOST TWO FULLY TRAINED EXAMINERS, WE ADDED TWO EXAMINER TRAINEE POSITIONS FOR ANOTHER INCREASED TRAINING BURDEN. AND FINALLY, AND PROBABLY THE MOST SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON THE SECTION WAS THE DRAMATIC INCREASE OF PRIORITY REQUEST CASES EARLY IN THE 2022 PRIORITY BOOM. THESE REQUESTS WERE MADE WITH SHORT NOTICE OF COURT DATES. WHILE THE SECTION LEARNED HOW TO NAVIGATE THESE EMERGING ISSUES, THE EXAMINERS CAME THROUGH AND MET THE DEMANDS OF THE COURTS AND THOSE COURT DATES. THERE CAME A POINT WHEN THE PRIORITIES WERE OVERWHELMING THE CASEWORK SYSTEM, AND WE COULD NO LONGER CONTINUE THE PACE WITHOUT SETTING SOME BOUNDARIES. ALONG WITH HFSC EXECUTIVE AND LEGAL TEAMS AND THE COOPERATION AND SUPPORT OF A DA LEADERSHIP, WE WERE ABLE TO BETTER MANAGE HOW MANY PRIORITIES COULD BE REQUESTED PER MONTH AND GIVEN PROMISED COMPLETION DATES. WHILE THIS SOLUTION HAS HELPED MANAGE THE NEEDS OF THE COURTS, EVEN NOW, WE STILL FIND OURSELVES ONLY ABLE TO WORK COURT PRIORITY CASES WITH VERY LITTLE PROGRESS ON THE CASEWORK AND THE REGULAR QUEUE. THIS HAS NOT BEEN THE PERFECT SOLUTION FOR ANYONE INVOLVED, BUT IT DOES BETTER CONTROL THE PROCESS. WHILE I WISH I HAD BETTER NEWS, AS IT SOMETIMES HAPPENS WHEN IT RAINS OF POURS THROUGH A SERIES OF UNFORTUNATE EVENTS, FOUR OF THE FIVE TRAINEES FROM THE MOST RECENT 2023 TRAINING GROUP HAVE LEFT HFSC. AFTER A TWO PLUS YEAR INVESTMENT FOR VARIOUS PERSONAL REASONS, AND TWO FULLY TRAINED EXAMINERS LEFT FOR RETIREMENT, ONE OF THE RETIREES CAME BACK PART-TIME IN A NEW ROLE AS A 3D IMAGING TECH. AND WE ARE SO HAPPY SHE DID. BUT SHE'S NO LONGER WORKING AS AN EXAMINER. SOMETIMES THINGS DON'T WORK OUT THE WAY THEY WERE, WE WANT THEM TO. BUT WE CARRY ON AND THROUGH A SERIES OF FORTUNATE EVENTS, WE HAVE THREE N IVAN TECHNICIANS WHO HAVE SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETED THEIR TRAINING EARLIER THIS YEAR AND ARE DOING BRILLIANTLY. WE HAVE ALSO HIRED FIVE EXAMINER TRAINEES WHO WILL BE STARTING THEIR EXTERNAL TRAINING EARLY NEXT YEAR. AND WE ALSO HAVE FOUND A FULLY TRAINED EXAMINER TO JOIN OUR TEAM, AND WE ANTICIPATE THAT SHE'LL BE FULLY OPERATIONAL IN THE NEXT FOUR TO FIVE MONTHS. HERE'S THE BROAD OVERVIEW OF THE FIREARM SECTION AS IT STANDS TODAY, KEEPING WITH OUR EXAMINER MATH, BY MID 2027, WE SHOULD HAVE INCREASED OUR FULL-TIME EXAMINER COUNT FROM TWO TO FOUR EXAMINERS. THE REMAINING FIVE EXAMINERS IN THE SECTION COULD POTENTIALLY PRODUCE THE SAME AMOUNT OF CASEWORK AS TWO ADDITIONAL FULL-TIME EXAMINERS, WHICH ARE BRINGING THE SECTION OUTPUT TO EQUAL THAT OF SIX FULL-TIME EXAMINERS. WE ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO ACCURATELY PROJECT THE ELIMINATION OF THE BACKLOG AT THIS TIME, AND THE OUTPUT OF SIX FULL-TIME EXAMINERS IS NOT NEARLY ENOUGH TO KEEP UP WITH THE DEMAND. WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SLOW THE GROWTH OF THE BACKLOG BY USING SOME OF THE BACKLOG REDUCTION TECHNIQUES FROM THE PAST. AND THE BACKLOG HAS REMAINED STEADY AT AROUND 450 REQUESTS SINCE JULY, 2025. SERIAL NUMBER RESTORATION HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM OUR SCOPE OF SERVICES AND THERE CONTINUES TO BE AN CONTINUOUS EFFORT TO RESEARCH CASES TO ENSURE WE ARE USING RESOURCES ON ONLY THOSE CASES THAT ARE STILL NEEDED. OUR PAST PERFORMANCE INDICATES THAT THERE WILL BE A TURNING POINT AND BACKLOG ELIMINATION IS A TANGIBLE GOAL, BUT WE HAVE A LONG ROAD AHEAD TO BECOMING FULLY STAFFED AND ABLE TO RESUME BACKLOG REDUCTION PLANS. THERE IS A CREW OUT THERE THAT CAN DO IT, IT'S THIS ONE. UNTIL THEN, WE KEEP MOVING FORWARD AND PRODUCING THE HIGHEST QUALITY OUTPUT WE CAN WHILE WORKING WITH OUR STAKEHOLDERS TO SERVE THE COMMUNITY. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS? THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THAT WAS, UH, QUITE A, UM, IT IS QUITE A SHOCKING REPORT IN SOME WAYS REALLY, [00:40:01] YOU KNOW, TO THINK ABOUT SOME OF THE TRAINEES THAT WE'VE TRAINED THAT THEN LEAVE AND WHERE WE ARE IN TERMS OF THE NUMBERS. UH, BUT YOU SEEM TO HAVE A GOOD HANDLE ON IT. THANK YOU. AND SO WE APPRECIATE IT. ARE THERE OTHER QUESTIONS FROM YES, GO AHEAD. SO THERE WAS 80% ATTRITION, UM, RIGHT, FOUR OUT OF FIVE YES. IN THE MOST RECENT TIME. ARE THERE LESSONS TO BE LEARNED FROM THAT IN TERMS OF THE REASONS THEY LEFT? YES. WE LEARNED A LOT ABOUT THE YOUNGEST GENERATION COMING IN FOR TRAINING . UM, UH, THEY EXPECT AND NEED DIFFERENT KINDS OF SUPPORT THAN WE ARE USED TO. UM, AND THEN SOME LEFT FOR PERSONAL REASONS. UM, ONE HAD A BABY AND DECIDED TO BE A STAY AT HOME MOM. UM, ONE DECIDED TO MOVE BACK TO THEIR HOME STATE. THEY DIDN'T ENJOY LIVING IN TEXAS AND ONE WANTED TO BE CLOSER TO THEIR FIANCE. SO IT VARIOUS REASONS WHY PEOPLE ARE LEAVING. SO YEAH, AND, AND LIKE JUNIOR. JUNIOR, SORRY, KIM, HER NICKNAME IS JUNIOR. UM, IT COMES OUT WITHOUT THINKING. UM, WE DID LEARN, RIGHT? AND OUR, AND THIS WAS ONE OF, BECAUSE WE USED EXTERNAL TRAINING BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE CAPACITY TO TRAIN INTERNALLY, WE LEARNED A LOT ABOUT HOW BETTER TO BALANCE THAT OUR EXPECTATIONS ARE BEING MET BY THAT EXTERNAL TRAINING DURING THE PROCESS. BECAUSE WE WERE, I DO THINK A BIG LESSON WE LEARNED AS WE WERE NOT PLEASANTLY SURPRISED OF SOME OF THE GAPS THAT HAD NOT BEEN CAUGHT DURING THE MIDDLE OF TRAINING. AND I WILL SAY TO THE TRAINEES TOO, THAT WAS FRUSTRATING FOR THEM BECAUSE THEY HAD BEEN THROUGH A PROCESS AND, AND HAD THE EXPECTATION THAT THEY HAD IT DOWN. UM, BUT WHEN WE START HAVING THEM DO INTERNAL WORK, AND I, ONE OF, UM, A PHRASE DONNA, HIS, I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS DONNA OR ONE OF Y'ALL THAT CAME UP WITH, IS WE'RE NOT JUST TRAINING A FIREARMS EXAMINER, WE'RE TRAINING AN EXPERT. UM, IT'S THAT, THAT CURVE OF GETTING OVER OF, IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT BEING ABLE TO DO THE WORK, IT'S BEING ABLE TO REALLY UNDERSTAND AND CRITICALLY THINK AND EXPLAIN THE WORK YOU'RE DOING. SO WE HAVE, LIKE, JUST THIS WEEK THEY MET WITH THE, THE TRAINING GROUP FOR THIS NEW BATCH COMING IN OF, OF TRAINERS, OUR TRAINEES OF HOW WE'RE GONNA BE IMPLEMENTING MORE MILESTONE CHECKS FROM US DURING THAT PROCESS. AND I DO THINK THAT WILL REALLY HELP. AND ONE OF THE TRAINEES IS GOING TO THE FBI PROGRAM, WHICH ALSO HELPS THAT WE'RE DOING, WE'RE MANAGING FOR HERE. AND ONE IS ACTUALLY LEAVING, I CAN'T REMEMBER THE STATE, THAT THEY GO TO MARYLAND TO MARYLAND FOR MONTHS, UM, TO ACTUALLY DO THE TRAINING THERE. AND THEY ALSO OFFER LIKE MILESTONE CHECKS WHERE WE'RE SEEING THE PROGRESS. AND SO I DO THINK THAT WAS A BIG LESSON THAT, THAT WE LEARNED. UM, ALONG WITH IT'S, IT'S THE GRADUATES COMING IN, IT, IT IS A DIFFERENT MINDSET I THINK, THAN WHAT SOME OF US HAVE EXPERIENCED IN OUR PAST. . OTHER QUESTIONS? YES. UM, YOU HAD MENTIONED THAT, UM, YOU'RE NOT DOING, UM, SERIAL NUMBER OR RESTORATION ANYMORE. IS THAT BEING PICKED UP BY ANYBODY OR IS THAT JUST SOMETHING THAT HFSC DOESN'T DO ANYMORE? WE RECEIVE SO FEW REQUESTS. THE COST OF MAINTAINING PROFICIENCY IN SERIAL LUMBER RESTORATION JUST WASN'T WORTH THE EFFORT. UM, THERE ARE OTHER LABS THAT DO OFFER THOSE SERVICES. YES. AND WE DID VERIFY THE A TF DOES IT FOR FREE AND HPD ACTUALLY 'CAUSE IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE ACCREDITED OR LICENSED. AND THEY DO IT ON ENGINE BLOCKS, LIKE THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO IT. AND I THINK THE LAST REQUEST WE GOT WAS IN 2023. WOW. SO THAT'S WHERE IT'S LIKE THE COST OF TRAINING AND PROFICIENCY TESTS AND ALL OF THAT BECOME AND MANAGING THAT. YES. GIVEN THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT DON'T MAKE IT THROUGH THE PROGRAM, SHOULD WE INCREASE THE SIZE OF THE CLASS EACH YEAR? I THINK THAT WOULD BE A DAVID QUESTION FOR BUDGET. . SO DAVID LEACH, CFO, UH, AND TREASURER. I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP. SO IT'S A TIGHT BUDGET AND WE'VE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT IT THIS YEAR, BUT THIS IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF YOU GUYS. YOU GUYS LOOK AROUND MY AGE, YOU GUYS REMEMBER THE FRA COMMERCIAL, THE FAMOUS, YOU KNOW, PAY ME NOW, PAY ME LATER KIND OF A THING. SO, YOU KNOW, IF THIS, IF THERE WAS MONEY MADE AVAILABLE, YOU WOULD RECOGNIZE THE FACT, AND EVEN IF YOU'VE GOT A BACKLOG, YOU'D OVERPRODUCE RIGHT? YOU'D OVER PREPARE FROM A PRODUCTION STANDPOINT UNTIL IT TABLES OFF. BUT THIS COMES, THIS IS A TWO YEAR CURVE AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW. I MEAN, LOOK AT THE RESULTS ON THIS ONE. WHAT HAPPENS? I MEAN, YOU GET 18 MONTHS IN, TWO YEARS IN AND OUCH. RIGHT? AND THEN THE EMERGENCIES HAPPEN. SO ALL THEY'RE WORKING ON RIGHT NOW ARE EMERGENCY CASES. WELL, THAT'S NOT EFFICIENT OR EFFECTIVE, RIGHT? SO HOW DO YOU DIG YOURSELF OUT OF THAT HOLE, RIGHT? SO IT, YOU KNOW, THE HARD GETS HARDER, RIGHT? SO JUST, AND, AND THAT, THAT GOES ACROSS ALL THINGS. IF SOMETHING HAPPENS WITH THE GRANTS WHERE WE DON'T GET THE GRANTS, NOW WE'RE DIGGING OUT OF A BACKLOG. THAT'S THE THE [00:45:01] PERPETUAL ISSUE THAT WHEN WE COME WITH YOU WITH A BUDGET, WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE CITY HAS A PROBLEM AND THERE'S NO POINT IN ASKING FOR EVERYTHING, RIGHT? BECAUSE THAT'S NAIVE. THAT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN. BUT THERE ALSO, THERE'S BEEN SEVERAL POINTS, I'VE BEEN HERE FOR 11 OR 12 YEARS WHERE WE KNEW THE ANSWER WAS NO TO THE MONEY. AND IT'S LIKE, OKAY, JUST REMEMBER BECAUSE TWO YEARS FROM NOW YOU'RE GONNA SEE IT. AND INSTEAD OF US ASKING FOR A MILLION, WE'RE GONNA NEED 5 MILLION AND IT'S GONNA TAKE TWO MORE YEARS. THAT ASSUMES EVERYTHING GOES WELL. SO THAT'S JUST THE DYNAMICS. WE, UH, DR. STOUT HAD BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS YEARS AGO. HE SAID, LOOK, THIS IS WHAT'S COMING, RIGHT? AND IT JUST IDEALLY, YES, WE WOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE THE MONEY, LEARN WHAT WE'VE LEARNED AND HAVE EXTRA KNOWING THAT IT'S GONNA FALL OFF. BUT THAT'S JUST NOT THE REALITY IN WHICH WE LIVE. AND I WOULD ADD IN FORENSICS IN GENERAL, WE'RE STAFFED TO JUST KEEP UP WITH THE WORK, RIGHT? AND, AND THAT'S ACROSS THE BOARD AND OF US ARE OVERFUNDED. BUT WHAT HAPPENS IN ANY DISCIPLINE, BECAUSE I THINK THE SHORTEST TRAINING ARC WE HAVE IS PROBABLY SIX MONTHS TO A YEAR. THE MINUTE YOU LOSE SOMEBODY, YOU'RE DROWNING. AND IF IT TAKES YOU SIX MONTHS TO GET BACK TO TREADING WATER, YOU'VE DUG A HOLE. AND SO I THINK THAT'S JUST A CHALLENGE IN FORENSICS IN GENERAL. WE CAN'T ALWAYS CONTROL TURNOVER. PEOPLE WILL LEAVE. UM, BUT WE CAN'T REALLY, WE DON'T HAVE THE BUDGET TO PREPARE FOR THAT, THAT EVENTUALITY. WE KNOW THAT WE'RE JUST AUTOMATICALLY GONNA BE UNFORTUNATELY SINKING UNTIL WE GET THOSE NEW PEOPLE ONLINE. ONE THING I'VE, GO AHEAD. I'M SORRY. JOY, DID YOU HAVE, I WAS JUST WONDERING, IS THIS ONLY US OR IS THIS COMMON TO THE INDUSTRY? THIS IS COMMON TO THE INDUSTRY. FIREARMS IS STRUGGLING. UM, AS PETER MENTIONS, THERE'S LIKE 70 FIREARMS EXAMINERS IN ALL OF TEXAS. WE HAVE, EVERY TIME WE POST, WE POST FOR EXPERIENCED AND NON-EXPERIENCED IN THE HOPE THAT WE GET SOME APPLICANTS THAT ARE EXPERIENCED. WE GOT, WE GOT ONE, WE HAVE ONE I THINK RIGHT NOW THAT'S APPLYING. UM, BUT THEY SIT AND THEY DON'T GET APPLIED FOR BECAUSE THERE'S NOT, AND LIKE EVEN FOR OUTSOURCING, TARRANT COUNTY IS THE ONLY ONE WE KNOW OF THAT IS ABLE TO TAKE ANY EXTERNAL WORK. WE KNOW THE CORPUS CHRISTI LAB WAS SHUT DOWN AND THEY'RE LOOKING FOR, OR THEY HAVE SOMEBODY TO REVIEW THEIR CASES, BUT THOSE CASES HAVE TO GO SOMEWHERE. SO UNFORTUNATELY IN FIREARMS, THIS IS A, A CERTAINLY A TEXAS ISSUE, BUT A NATIONWIDE ISSUE, UM, WHERE THERE'S JUST NOT EXTRA BANDWIDTH TO HELP IN A SITUATION LIKE WHAT WE'RE IN, EVERYBODY'S DEALING WITH IT. MY QUESTION HAS TO DO, NOT NECESSARILY WITH JUST FIREARMS, BUT I WAS ALWAYS UNDER THE IMPRESSION AT LEAST FOR THE LAST FEW YEARS, THAT WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS SPECTACULAR. AND THAT IN MANY CASES THE ENVY OF OTHER OF THE COUNTRY IN TERMS OF WHO WE'RE TRAINING AND WHAT WE'RE DOING. SO IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WE ARE JUST ALMOST SITTING DUCKS FOR PEOPLE TO COME AND SNATCH AND EITHER, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY WITH A GREATER PAY INCREASE AND PROMOTIONS. AND YES, I IT WE'RE PENALIZED FOR DOING SO. WELL, YES, IT FEELS LIKE THAT SOMETIMES. I CAN'T ARGUE THAT THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN. UM, BECAUSE I DO THINK PEOPLE, IT'S REALLY EASY FOR SOMEBODY WHO DOES WANT TO MOVE TO ANOTHER STATE THAT WENT THROUGH OUR TRAINING PROGRAM. MM-HMM . THEY GET SNATCHED UP PRETTY QUICK. UM, SO, BUT THERE'S REALLY NOT, LIKE YOU SAID, THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT TO DO TO PREVENT THOSE. UM, WE DO REALLY TRY HARD TO HAVE A GREAT CULTURE THAT MAKES PEOPLE WANT TO STAY AT HFSC. AND I WILL SAY WE HAVE HAD PEOPLE COME BACK THAT HAVE LEFT HFSC, UM, NOT IN FIREARMS YET, MAYBE. UM, SO I DO THINK WE WORK REALLY HARD TO TRY AND, AND, AND BECAUSE OF WHO WE ARE, I THINK WE'RE ABLE TO DO THAT DIFFERENTLY THAN OTHER LABS THAT ARE STILL UNDER LAW ENFORCEMENT AND STILL UNDER OTHER AGENCIES. WE HAVE MORE FREEDOM TO WORK ON OUR CULTURE AND CREATE AN ENVIRONMENT THAT EVEN THOUGH THE STRESS OF FORENSICS. AND THE OTHER THING WE FIND TOO IS PEOPLE LEAVE FORENSICS. UM, I THINK TWO, ONE FOR SURE LEFT FORENSICS, THE OTHER LEFT, I DON'T THINK, I DON'T KNOW IF SHE'S DOING FIREARMS ANYMORE. SO THAT'S THE OTHER CHALLENGE TOO, IS WHEN PEOPLE COME IN EXPECTING THAT IT'S ONE THING AND THEY GO THROUGH THE TRAINING AND THEY'RE LIKE, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS WAS WHAT I WAS THINKING WITH THE AMOUNT OF PRESSURE AND TEDIOUS WORK THAT NEEDS TO GET DONE WITH WHAT WE DO. UM, SO IT'S, IT'S A CHALLENGE. AND I WILL SAY I AM SO PROUD OF THIS GROUP. UM, I THINK WHEN Y'ALL SEE THIS, SORRY, , UM, THE RESILIENCE IS, IS INCREDIBLE. UM, I SIT NEXT TO THEM AND I FEEL LIKE THERE ARE TIMES WHERE I, I MEAN SO MANY PEOPLE WOULD'VE GIVEN UP OR SAID, I'M DONE . UM, [00:50:01] LIKE I SAID, WHEN IT RAINS, IT POURS. SO I JUST WANNA POINT THAT OUT. AND I FEEL LIKE THAT'S ACROSS OUR ORGANIZATION. BUT RIGHT NOW, FIREARMS IS, IS SHOWING THAT TO A LEVEL THAT I, REGARDLESS OF BACKLOG, THE, THE PRIDE WE HAVE IN THIS GROUP AND THEY, THAT THEY CAN CONTINUE AND THEY CONTINUE TO FIND WAYS TO BE READY FOR THE NEXT ROUND IS, IS AMAZING. OH, THANK YOU. THANK YOU . AND AGAIN, UH, NO OTHER QUESTIONS. OH YEAH, SORRY, QUESTION. I ACTUALLY HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT, YOU MENTIONED SOME OF THE PEOPLE ARE MAYBE A LITTLE BIT SURPRISED BY SOME OF THE NEGATIVE ASPECTS OF THE JOB. WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT ARE COMING AS A SURPRISE TO THE TRAINING? WE SUFFER FROM THE CSI EFFECT, JUST LIKE THE COURTS DO. THEY, THEY COME IN THINKING IT'S ONE THING AND HOW, I MEAN, I LOVE MY JOB AND IT'S, IT'S AWESOME, BUT IT IS NOTHING LIKE IT IS ON TV. WE FOUND THAT THE COLLEGE PROGRAMS ARE NOT PREPARING THEM FOR FIREARMS EXAMINATION. UM, THEY DO A BETTER JOB OF DOING TOXICOLOGY AND FORENSIC BIOLOGY TYPE PREPARATION IN THEIR COURSES, BUT THERE'S REALLY NOT A FIREARMS PROGRAM OUT THERE. SO THEY THINK IT'S ONE THING AND THEY COME IN AND THEY FIND OUT, OH, THIS IS REALLY HARD . AND THEY, IT'S, IT'S HARD AND IT'S HARD TO GO THROUGH THREE YEARS OF TRAINING WITH A GENERATION THAT WANTS INSTANT GRATIFICATION. UM, THEN NOT A LOT OF PATIENTS IS WHAT WE FOUND INTERESTING. UNFORTUNATELY. OKAY. WELL, REPRESENTING THE GENERATION THAT DOES HAVE PATIENCE. YES. SORRY, . NO. IF, IF THE QUESTION IS RECRUITING AND, AND, AND, UH, BASICALLY, UH, GIVING THEM THAT OPPORTUNITY TO SEE WHAT THE, THE DISCIPLINE IS ABOUT. DOES, DOES, DOES YOUR SECTION LEND ITSELF TO INTERNSHIPS AND OTHER KIND OF, UH, PRE-EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES TO EXPOSURE OF WHAT YOU DO? I MEAN, DO WE, DO WE HAVE PROGRAMS LIKE THAT HERE? YES, WE HAVE A AWESOME INTERNSHIP PROGRAM. UM, IT'S QUITE COMPETITIVE AND IT, AND IT DOES HELP TO SOME EXTENT. UM, I THINK WE HAVE HAD PEOPLE COME INTO THE INTERNSHIP PROGRAM THAT DO DECIDE DURING THE PROGRAM MAYBE, MAYBE FORENSICS ISN'T FOR ME, THEY, OR THEY GO LIKE THE LEGAL ROUTE AND WORKING IN, IN THE, THE, FOR THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE WORLD. I STILL THINK IT'S A LITTLE HARD SOMETIMES UNTIL THEY'RE IN IT FOR THEM TO REALLY GET THE, THE NON, HOW MUCH OF THE NON EXCITING PART IS THERE IN THE TRAINING PROGRAM. AND THE REALLY HARD PART, I LIKE TO TELL PEOPLE YOUR WHY CAN'T BE, 'CAUSE THIS IS COOL. UM, AND IF YOUR WHY IS IT'S COOL, IT'S REALLY HARD TO MAKE IT THROUGH THIS VERSUS MY WHY IS BECAUSE I KNOW WE'RE MAKING A DIFFERENCE FOR THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM AND THERE NEEDS TO BE PEOPLE WHO ARE WILLING TO, UM, GO THROUGH THIS TEDIOUS PROCESS AND DO A LOT OF DOCUMENTATION AND A LOT OF DETAIL ORIENTED WORK THAT JUST ISN'T AS, UM, GLAMOROUS AS IT'S PRESENTED. BUT WE DO TRY TO, LIKE, WE HAVE, 'CAUSE THE INTERNS COME IN, THEY SHADOW THOSE KIND OF THINGS. BUT NORMALLY WE HAVE LIKE SIX TO 12 SPOTS A SUMMER FOR THE INTERNSHIP PROGRAM. WE TYPICALLY GET ABOUT 50 APPLICANTS, 50, A HUNDRED APPLICANTS INTO THE PROGRAM. SO, UM, WE CAN'T GET IT ACROSS TO EVERYBODY. AND WE TRY IN OUR OUTREACH EFFORTS, RIGHT, WHEN WE'RE TALKING TO HIGH SCHOOLERS AND TALKING TO COLLEGES TO BE REALISTIC AND EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE, UM, IT'S A GREAT, WE LOVE OUR JOBS, UM, BUT YOU KIND OF HAVE TO SHIFT YOUR MINDSET INTO WHY YOU WANT TO DO THIS JOB. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. UH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UM, STAY CLOSE. SO WE MAY HAVE SOME MORE QUESTIONS AFTER, UM, AFTER THE PRESENTATION BY, UM, MS. LEY. OKAY. THANK YOU SO MUCH. NOW I'LL INVITE HER TO COME UP AND SHE IS THE FIREARMS OPERATIONS COORDINATOR. IT'S ALL YOURS. THANK YOU. HI, I AM MELISSA NALLY AND AS YOU MENTIONED, I'M AN OPERATIONS COORDINATOR IN FIREARMS AND I HAVE, ONE OF MY MAIN JOBS RIGHT NOW IS TO VALIDATE OUR NEW 3D TECHNOLOGY THAT WE'RE TRYING TO INTRODUCE INTO THE FIREARM SECTION. SO I'M GONNA TALK TO YOU A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT AND HOW IT'S GOING. SO AFTER WATCHING KIM'S PRESENTATION AND HEARING ABOUT THE BACKLOG IN FIREARMS, YOU MIGHT BE WONDERING WHY WE'RE TAKING TIME TO DO A VALIDATION RIGHT NOW. AND THERE ARE A COUPLE REALLY GOOD REASONS FOR IT. UM, ADDING VIRTUAL COMPARISON MICROSCOPY OR VCM AS WE CALL IT TO OUR TOOLBOX, IS GONNA HELP US NOT ONLY TO KEEP UP WITH THE CHANGING TECHNOLOGY IN OUR FIELD, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY LONG TERM, IT'S GONNA HELP US TO IMPROVE OUR EFFICIENCY IN HOW WE WORK CASES. SO TRADITIONALLY, FIREARMS EXAMINERS HAVE RELIED ON LIGHT COMPARISON MICROSCOPY FOR BULLETIN CARTRIDGE CASE COMPARISONS, AND IT WORKS GREAT, AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE IMAGES ON THE SCREEN. THERE'S, YOU CAN SEE ALL THE FINE DETAILS ON THE CARTRIDGE CASES AND IN THE FIRING PIN IMPRESSION ALLOWS US TO DO GREAT COMPARISONS, BUT THERE'S SOME CHALLENGES THAT GO ALONG WITH THAT. FINDING THE EXACT SAME ANGLE AND INTENSITY [00:55:01] OF LIGHT ON DIFFERENT METALLIC SURFACES CAN BE CHALLENGING. AND THIS NEW TECHNIQUE IS HELPFUL IN THAT VIRTUAL COMPARISON MICROSCOPY OR VCM AS I'M GONNA CALL IT THROUGHOUT THIS PRESENTATION. UM, IT HELPS WITH THE, THE CHALLENGES OF LIGHT AND REFLECTIVITY. SO 3D SCANS OF THE TOPOGRAPHY OF THE SURFACE OF THESE CARTRIDGE CASES AND BULLETS ARE EASIER FOR US TO COMPARE AND KEEP THE LIGHTING AND REFLECTION TO A MINIMUM. THERE'S A FEW OTHER ADVANTAGES OF THIS NEW TECHNIQUE AND THOSE INCLUDE, UM, FLEXIBILITY. SO WE ARE ABLE TO PERFORM VCM USING OUR LAPTOP COMPUTERS AND SOFTWARE THAT'S PROVIDED BY OUR VENDORS AND WE CAN PERFORM COMPARISONS FROM ANYWHERE. SO EVEN IF THERE'S A PANDEMIC OR A WEATHER SITUATION WHERE WE AREN'T ABLE TO MAKE IT INTO THE LABORATORY, WE'RE ABLE TO CONTINUE DOING CASEWORK FROM REMOTE, UM, LOCATIONS. ADDITIONALLY, THERE'S AN ALGORITHM THAT'S ASSOCIATED WITH DOING THIS NEW METHOD OF VCM AND IT ALLOWS US TO COMPARE THE PROFILES OF DIFFERENT ITEMS AND GENERATE A SCORE BETWEEN ZERO AND ONE SHOWING HOW SIMILAR THOSE TWO ITEMS ARE. SO THAT SCORE WILL BE HELPFUL DOWN THE ROAD TO JURIES WHEN THEY'RE TRYING TO ASSIGN WEIGHT TO EVIDENCE. IF THEY KNOW WHAT THE SCORE WAS BETWEEN THOSE ITEMS AND HOW SIMILAR THEY WERE, THAT MAY HELP THEM TO MAKE A GOOD DECISION. ANOTHER ADVANTAGE OF THAT ALGORITHM IS THAT IT CAN HELP US FIND THE BEST MATCHED AREA ON TWO ITEMS VERY QUICKLY. SO EVEN IF WE HAVE A REALLY DIFFICULT BULLET COMPARISON, UM, FINDING THAT BEST MATCHED AREA WITH THE ALGORITHM WILL HELP US MORE EFFICIENTLY GET THROUGH THAT EXAMINATION IN A MUCH QUICKER AMOUNT OF TIME. SO BACK TO THE VALIDATION, UM, WE'VE HAD TO HAVE TWO SEPARATE PLANS TO GET THROUGH IN ORDER TO VALIDATE THIS NEW TECHNOLOGY BECAUSE IT'S NOT JUST AN INSTRUMENT WE'RE VALIDATING IT'S A NEW METHOD. SO THE FIRST STEP FOR US HAS BEEN VALIDATING THE INSTRUMENT ITSELF TO SHOW THAT IT CAN DO WHAT WE NEED IT TO DO IN OUR SECTION. THE SECOND PART IS SHOWING THAT EXAMINERS ARE ABLE TO USE THIS NEW METHOD TO DO, PERFORM THE WAY THAT WE NEED THEM TO AND DO THESE COMPARISONS. SO WE'VE ACTUALLY GOTTEN THROUGH PHASE ONE ALREADY AND THE INSTRUMENT HAS BEEN VALIDATED, UM, AS FAR AS IT'S CAPABLE OF DOING WHAT WE NEED IT TO. UM, WE'VE SET UP, UH, MEASUREMENT UNCERTAINTY AND ALL OF THE BEHIND THE SCENES STUFF TO GET IT GOING. AND WHAT WE LEARNED, A LOT OF THINGS ALONG THE WAY DURING PHASE ONE, UM, WE LEARNED THAT UPDATES TO THE SOFTWARE CAN CREATE CHALLENGES FOR US. AND SINCE IT IS SUCH A NEW TECHNOLOGY, SOMETIMES WE'RE THE FIRST ONES TO ENCOUNTER AN ISSUE AND TALKING TO THE VENDORS, THEY DON'T ALWAYS HAVE AN IMMEDIATE SOLUTION. SO WE'VE HAD TO, IT HAS TAKEN A LITTLE TIME TO WORK THROUGH SOME ISSUES AND WE'VE ALSO LEARNED THAT WE HAVE TO KEEP OUR SCANNING AREAS SUPER DUPER CLEAN BECAUSE, UM, IT'S A GEL-BASED SCANNING SYSTEM. AND SO EVERY LITTLE FLECK OF FIBER OR DUST, UM, SHOWS UP ON OUR SCANS. SO WE'RE, WE'RE WORKING THROUGH THAT AS WELL. WE'RE CURRENTLY IN PART TWO OF THE VALIDATION AND THAT IS TO, UM, I AND MYSELF AND ANOTHER, UH, OUR RETIREE WHO CAME BACK AS OUR IMAGING TECHNICIAN ARE WORKING TOGETHER TO CREATE TESTS TO GIVE TO THE EXAMINERS SO THAT THEY'RE ABLE TO SHOW THAT THEY'RE ABLE TO USE THIS NEW APPROACH. SO THE TESTS THAT I'M CREATING CONSIST OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF PRIMERS AND CARTRIDGE CASES, UM, SHOWING THAT THERE ARE NO LIMITATIONS TO THE MATERIALS OR THE CALIBERS THAT WE CAN, UM, PERFORM THIS NEW TECHNOLOGY ON. SO WE'RE BASICALLY INCLUDING EVERYTHING THAT WE WOULD ENCOUNTER IN CASE WORK IN THESE NEW, IN THESE EXAMINATIONS THAT WE'RE GIVING THE EXAMINERS. THEY'RE ALSO GONNA DO TESTS USING, UM, LCM OR THE LIGHT COMPARISON MICROSCOPY, AND THAT WILL BE, THEY'LL BE RUN SIDE BY SIDE SO THAT WE CAN SHOW THAT BOTH METHODS ARE EFFECTIVE IN DOING FIREARMS COMPARISONS. THIS IS JUST A COUPLE OF IMAGES OF WHAT THE SIDE-BY-SIDE, UM, COMPARISONS USING VCM LOOK LIKE. SO THESE ARE VIRTUAL SCANS THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT ON THE SCREEN. SO WHAT HAPPENS NEXT? WELL, ONCE WE'VE COMPLETED THESE 10 TEST KITS THAT WE'RE MAKING TO, UM, DISTRIBUTE TO THE EXAMINERS, THEY'RE EACH GOING TO DO A TOTAL OF ABOUT 60 VIRTUAL COMPARISONS, AND THAT WILL BE A WIDE RANGE OF DIFFERENT CALIBERS AND AGAIN, MATERIALS TO SHOW THAT THEY'RE ABLE TO USE THIS TECHNOLOGY. THEY'LL ALSO DO ABOUT 30, UM, PHYSICAL COMPARISONS USING THE TRADITIONAL LIGHT MICROSCOPY. AND WE'RE GOING TO BE DOING A COMPARISON TO SHOW THAT THOSE TWO METHODS ARE, AGAIN, THAT WE CAN DO AS WELL [01:00:01] OR BETTER USING VCM AS WE COULD DOING LCM. SO I HAVE HERE A VIDEO AND IT'S, OH, THERE IT GOES. IT'S KIND OF SMALL UP THERE, BUT THIS IS JUST TO KIND OF GIVE YOU AN IDEA SO THAT YOU CAN SEE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE DOING A VIRTUAL COMPARISON BETWEEN TWO FIRED CARTRIDGE CASES. SO THIS IS JUST SO YOU CAN SEE, UM, WE CAN DO THIS VIRTUALLY, AND THIS IS JUST ON A LAPTOP COMPUTER, SO YOU CAN JUST, WE'RE ABLE TO ZOOM IN AND OUT. WE CAN MOVE THE ITEM ON THE LEFT OR THE ITEM ON THE RIGHT. WE'RE ABLE TO DO ALL THE SAME THINGS WE CAN DO ON A REGULAR COMPARISON SCOPE ONLY VIRTUALLY. SO THE LIGHTING IS CHANGING. WE CAN, WE'RE ABLE TO MANIPULATE THE LIGHTING, WE CAN CHANGE THE ANGLE, AND IT'S EASIER TO KEEP IT THE SAME ON BOTH STAGES THIS WAY BECAUSE IT'S ALL, IT'S ALL VIRTUAL. SO, UM, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, YOU'RE WELCOME TO ASK. WHILE WE'RE JUST WATCHING THIS LITTLE CLIP, I JUST WANTED YOU TO HAVE A, A CHANCE TO SEE WHAT IT IS THAT WE'RE WORKING SO HARD TO GET UP AND RUNNING. I DO HAVE A QUESTION. THAT'S IT. OKAY. YOU KNOW, HOLD ON ONE SECOND. UM, YEAH, GO AHEAD. WHAT I WAS GONNA SUGGEST IS THAT, UM, MS. ZELLER AND MS COMES UP AND JOINS YOU, AND THEN ANY QUESTIONS THAT COME UP WE CAN ANSWER AT ONE TIME. GREAT. GO AHEAD. YOU WANT TO ANSWER QUESTION? YES. UH, I THINK THIS IS SUPER NEAT. I AM CURIOUS AS TO WHY HFSC IS DOING THE VERIFICATION AND VALIDATION USING THE VCM. I WOULD HAVE ASSUMED THAT WHEREVER THIS TECHNOLOGY IS COMING FROM, THEY WOULD'VE ALREADY DONE IT. SO MY QUESTION IS, IS VCM USED FOR SOMETHING ELSE AND NOW YOU ARE EMPLOYING IT FOR THIS SPECIFIC USE CASE AND THEREFORE YOU HAVE TO DO THE PAIRED SAMPLE ANALYSIS, ET CETERA? OKAY, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. AND THERE HAS BEEN SOME DEVELOPMENTAL VALIDATION DONE OF THIS PARTICULAR METHOD. UM, HOWEVER, IF WE'RE GOING TO USE IT HERE FOR ONE THING, THERE AREN'T VERY MANY LABORATORIES THAT HAVE INCORPORATED IT YET. AND SO IT IS SUCH A NOVEL WAY THAT WE, WE REALLY WANNA MAKE SURE THAT IT'S WORKING PROPERLY AND THAT WE'RE ABLE TO USE IT AS WE NEED TO, UM, AND IN COURT AND EVERYTHING, WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SHOW THAT, UM, IT IS JUST AS RELIABLE, IF NOT MORE SO THAN OUR CURRENT METHODS. OKAY. SO, SO IT'S MORE OF AN INTERNAL DOUBLE CHECK, ESSENTIALLY MAKING SURE THAT IT WORKS. WELL, THE FIRST PHASE WAS, WAS CONFIRMING THE INSTRUMENT, AND THEN WE ALSO HAVE TO SHOW THAT OUR EXAMINERS ARE ABLE TO USE THIS METHOD IN THE SAME WAY THAT THEY USE OUR CURRENT LIGHT LIGHT MICROSCOPY DIRECTOR, HUFF. SO WHAT YOU'RE SHOWING IN THE VIDEO, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU COMPARE IT, AN EXAMINER COMPARES IT VISUALLY, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT. DO YOU USE IMAGE SOFTWARE? THERE'S A TON OF IMAGE SOFTWARE PROGRAMS OUT THERE THAT YOU CAN OVERLAY IMAGES OR YOU CAN LOOK AT PIXEL LEVEL INTENSITIES OF DIFFERENT THINGS. IS THAT GOING TO, IN THE LONG TERM BE PART OF THIS ANALYSIS? SO THAT IS ACTUALLY ONE OF THE FEATURES OF OUR SOFTWARE, IS THAT IT FINDS THE BEST MATCHED AREA FOR US. THIS WAS JUST KIND OF TO SHOW WHAT AN EXAMINER CAN LOOK AT. UM, BUT YES, IT FINDS A BEST MATCHED AREA USING AN ALGORITHM, AND THEN THAT WILL REDUCE THE TIME THAT WE'RE SPENDING TRYING TO FIND THAT BEST MATCHED AREA. IF WE'RE STARTING FROM SCRATCH, ESPECIALLY WITH BULLETS, UM, SOMETIMES IT CAN TAKE A LONG TIME JUST TO GET THEM PHASED CORRECTLY. MM-HMM . WHERE THIS IS PHASING IT FOR US AND WE'RE HAVING TO VISUALLY CONFIRM THAT IT'S IN THE CORRECT ORIENTATION, AND THEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THOSE DETAILS MANUALLY TO FORM OUR OPINION, BUT IT WILL ALSO BE SUPPORTED BY THAT ALGORITHM AND BY THE SCORES THAT ARE ASSIGNED BY HOW SIMILAR THE ITEMS ARE. IF IT'S A VIRTUAL IMAGE, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO CONVINCE A COURT UNDER RULE 7 0 2 THAT IT, IT QUALIFIES, UM, AS THE SAME AS THE REAL BULLET? I MEAN, WE'RE, WE'RE TAKING SCANS OF THE SURFACE OF THE BULLET OR THE CARTRIDGE CASE, AND THEN THOSE, THE SCANS ARE JUST BEING VISUALIZED SIMILARLY TO THE WAY LAYTON PRINTS OR OTHER SECTIONS HAVE USED, UM, DIGITAL TECHNOLOGY. AND ARE YOU GOING TO, ARE YOU GOING TO TURN OVER THE PROGRAM TO THE DEFENSE TO USE AND ANALYZE WITH THEIR EXPERTS? UM, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION AND WE HAVEN'T ACTUALLY GOTTEN TO THAT PART OF THE DISCUSSION YET AT ALL. UM, I THINK THERE'S ALREADY, THERE'S OTHER QUESTIONS LIKE, WELL, DOES A SCAN BECOME EVIDENCE? HOW LONG DO WE KEEP THEM? HOW DO WE STORE THEM? THINGS LIKE THAT. THERE ARE, THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS WE STILL HAVEN'T FIGURED OUT. SO RIGHT NOW WE'RE KIND OF TESTING THE TECHNOLOGY AND OUR ABILITY TO USE IT AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THOSE ANSWERS AT THE SAME TIME THAT THAT'S GONNA BE THE FIRST REQUEST. [01:05:02] I MEAN, IT'S GONNA HAVE, THAT'S GONNA BE THE FIRST QUESTION THAT HAPPENS WHEN I DEFINITELY THINK WE WOULD, THAT YOU WOULD EXPECT THAT JUST LIKE WITH ANY OF OUR OTHER SOFTWARES WE USE IN OTHER SECTIONS, THAT DEFENSE WOULD HAVE EXPERTS THAT ALSO HAVE ACCESS TO THE SOFTWARE. I WOULD ALSO IMAGINE, IN MY BRAIN, THIS IS VERY ANALOGOUS TO WHEN WE BROUGHT STAR MIX ONLINE FOR DNA, UM, IT'S ALSO A VERY LONG ROAD, AND SO I DO THINK THERE ARE QUESTIONS LIKE THAT AND THERE'S QUESTIONS AND TIMES WHERE THE MANUFACTURERS ARE GONNA HAVE TO COME IN AND TESTIFY. YEAH. UM, THAT HAPPENED A LOT WITH STAR MIX BECAUSE THERE IS THAT COMPONENT OF WHAT THE ANALYST IS DOING VERSUS WHAT THE SOFTWARE IS DOING. YEAH. AND THE MANUFACTURERS BEING ABLE, NOT OUR ANALYST TO EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED. SO YEAH, I'M, I'M NOT ARGUING WITH IT, I'M JUST, YEAH, JUST IT IS VERY INTERESTING. I'M SORRY, I SAID IT'S VERY INTERESTING. MM-HMM . OKAY. DIRECTOR, MARISSA, UH, I IMAGINE THIS WOULD BE SIMILAR TO ESSENTIALLY AN X-RAY. IS, IS THAT, IS THAT RIGHT WHERE YOU'RE TAKING SOME SORT OF IMAGERY AND THEN IT CAN BE INTRODUCED INTO COURT? WOULD THIS BE KIND OF SIMILAR IN THAT WHERE I'M SURE THEY'VE USED X-RAYS FOR EVIDENCE AND THERE'S A PROCESS FOR IT, RIGHT. WOULD THIS KIND OF FOLLOW THE SAME SUIT? UM, I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH USING X-RAYS, BUT I THINK JUST LIKE IN LATENT PRINTS, AND IT'S PROVING THAT CONCEPT OF, AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE OUR VALIDATION IS SO IMPORTANT, IS PROVING THAT CONCEPT OF THIS IMAGE THAT WAS GENERATED BY THIS SOFTWARE IS COMPARABLE TO THE IMAGE THAT WAS GENERATED BY THE TRADITIONAL METHODS. UM, AND IT IS IMPORTANT, UM, IN ALL OF OUR, THE OTHER THING THAT HAPPENS JUST IN FORENSICS IN GENERAL IS EVEN IF ANOTHER LAB HAD PROVEN THAT WE STILL HAVE TO PROVE IT ON OUR OWN BEFORE WE BRING ANYTHING ONLINE. AND THAT GOES FOR LIKE IN BIOLOGY, EVEN A, A KIT THAT HAS BEEN USED FOR 30 YEARS. IF WE DECIDE TO PUT THAT KIT INTO PRACTICE IN OUR LAB, WE HAVE TO DO A VALIDATION AND SHOW IN OUR LAB. IT PERFORMS AS EXPECTED. DR. YU, THEN DOC THEN, UH, DI THEN DIRECTOR, UM, MASQUE. OKAY. UH, JUST VERY QUICK. UH, SO WHO, WHO IS THE COMPANY CREATE, UH, TECHNOLOGY? UH, IS THAT FROM THE NIST OR FROM A, UH, LIKE A TF? IS THAT FROM THE FEDERAL TECHNOLOGY OR THIS IS KIND OF TECHNOLOGY. WE, WE, WE GET, WELL, THERE, THERE ARE ACTUALLY MULTIPLE VENDORS THAT HAVE, UM, ESTABLISHED SOME 3D SOFTWARE AND TECHNOLOGY. THIS PARTICULAR ONE THAT WE HAVE PURCHASED IS CADRE FORENSICS. IT'S THEIR TOP MATCH 3D SCANNING SYSTEM. SO WE HAVE TWO OF THOSE THAT WE PURCHASED AT THE LABORATORY. SO THAT'S ALSO THE FEDERAL STANDARD OR IS OUR KIND OF OUR ADAPTION? I AM NOT SURE, LIKE, OKAY. THERE'S, THERE'S THREE MAIN VENDORS THAT I KNOW A LOT OF CRIME LABORATORIES IN THE UNITED STATES HAVE BEEN ADOPTING. UM, BUT I'M NOT SURE, LIKE NIST HAS GIVEN US GUIDELINES AS FAR AS HOW TO USE THE SOFTWARE, BUT THEY, NONE OF THE INSTRUMENTS WERE GENERATED THROUGH NIST. OKAY. SO LIKE A A TF, DO THEY ADAPT? I BELIEVE THEY'RE LOOKING INTO GETTING, HAVING SOME OF THE SYSTEMS THEMSELVES AS WELL. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. BUT I DON'T THINK THEY'VE LIKE SAID THIS IS THE ONE WE WOULD USE. WE DON'T HAVE ANY GUIDANCE LIKE THAT. NO GUIDANCE YET. YEAH. OKAY. SO IT'S COY OPEN IN TERMS OF THE TECHNOLOGY MM-HMM . UH, BUT I BELIEVE THIS WORK, UH, THIS TECHNOLOGY CAN KIND OF IMPROVE OUR EFFICIENCY IN OUR WORKFLOW, RIGHT? YES. I THINK ONCE THAT'S KIND OF A PURPOSE. YEAH. I THINK ONCE WE GET THERE, UM, I THINK IT'S ONE OF THOSE WHERE WE'VE ALSO HAD A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS. YEAH. I THINK WHEN, WHEN, WHEN YOU GOT A KIND OF REAL, LIKE A BEST MATCH, YOU STILL NEED TO RETRIEVE THE REAL BULL, UH, CARTRIDGE CASING AND THEN EXAMINE BY THE EXAMINER AND, AND, AND BRING UP TO THE FINAL CONCLUSION. RIGHT. OR THIS IS KIND OF REPLACEMENT THAT YOU CAN USE. THAT'S, THAT'S A GOOD POINT. IN THE PAST WE'VE NEVER, WE'VE ALWAYS HAD TO LOOK AT THE PHYSICAL ITEM, BUT THIS IS ACTUALLY REPLACING SOME OF THAT. UH, I MEAN THE, THE PHYSICAL ITEM WOULD STILL BE AVAILABLE IF NEEDED BECAUSE WE AREN'T ABLE TO SEE EVERY SURFACE AREA, UH, USING THIS TECHNOLOGY. BUT, UM, SO IT DOESN'T REPLACE IT, SO IT'S TO, IT'S GOING TO BE A LONG PROCESS TO TRAIN NEW EYES BECAUSE EXAMINERS, THEY, THEY KIND OF GET TRAINED CORRECT. LOOKING AT THE OPTICAL IMAGES, AND NOW YOU USE SCANNING OR SCANNED IMAGE AND THEN YOU WANT TO TRAIN EXAMINER TO REACH THE SAME KIND OF CONCLUSION. SO IT IT, IT WILL BE A LONG PROCESS. I OH, IT IS DEFINITELY A PROCESS. IT'S THAT WE'RE WORKING THROUGH FOR SURE. SO DIRECTOR VASQUEZ, I WAS JUST CURIOUS ON HOW YOU ARE SCANNING THESE. WHAT, WHAT DOES IT, WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE WHEN YOU'RE SCANNING? I, I DON'T THINK I TOOK A PICTURE OF THE SCANNER, BUT IT'S JUST, WE HAVE TWO DESKTOPS SCANNING SYSTEMS AND IT ACTUALLY, THE CARTRIDGE CASE IS PRESSED INTO A GEL AND THE, THE SCAN IS HAPPENING INSIDE OF THE SYSTEM. I DON'T, THERE'S, THERE'S LIGHTS AND CA CAMERAS AND ACTION. THERE'S ALL KINDS OF THINGS HAPPENING. , [01:10:01] I'M SORRY. WELL, CAN WE REDO, BECAUSE WHEN YOU SAY SCANNER, I'M IMAGINING LIKE A LITTLE DESKTOP, LIKE OH, OKAY. WORK SCANNER, RIGHT, RIGHT. THAT'S WHAT I'M, IT IS, I MEAN, IT'S JUST A, IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE MUCH FROM THE OUTSIDE, BUT WHAT'S GOING ON INSIDE? WHAT WAS THAT? IT'S NOT LIKE A LITTLE FLAT. OH, IT'S NOT FLAT? NO, IT'S, IT'S KIND OF, IT LOOKS LIKE, UM, KIND OF LIKE WHAT WOULD YOU A BOX THAT YOU, YOU ENTER A TRAY WITH CARTRIDGE CASES IN AND IT CAN SCAN UP TO 15 CARTRIDGE CASES IN, IN A BATCH, I GUESS. UM, WE AREN'T REALLY USING IT AS BATCHES RIGHT NOW. WE'RE JUST, UM, DOING A FEW AT A TIME. BUT, UM, IT'S, IT JUST SCANS THE, THE HEAD OF THE CARTRIDGE CASE, THE FLAT AREA, AND SO THEN WE COME UP WITH THIS 3D PROFILE OF, OF THAT SURFACE, AND WE CAN SEE IT IN THIS WAY TO DO COMPARISONS, UM, USING SOFTWARE TO MANIPULATE IT AROUND, MOVE IT AND CHANGE THE LIGHTING AND SUCH. SO, SO THE TOP THE, THE SURFACE THAT YOU'RE SCANNING IS NOT IN THE GEL, JUST THE, JUST THE, THE SHELL, THE CASING, THE CARTRIDGE CASE. UM, THE HEAD STAMP AREA IS ALL IS PRESSED INTO THE GEL AND THEN IT'S COMING UP WITH THAT PROFILE BASED ON THAT IMPRESSION INTO THE GEL. IT'S DOING ITS 3D. OH, OKAY. SCAN. OH, I HAD THE IMAGE BACKWARDS IN. OKAY. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I DIDN'T KNOW WHEN I, YOU KNOW, ON LAW AND ORDER, THEY JUST TAKE TWO BULLETS AND STICK THEM UNDER A MICROSCOPE AND THEY GO, THAT'S THE SAME THING. AND WELL, THEN THEY HAVE THEIR BAD PERSON. OKAY. SOUNDS LIKE THIS A LITTLE MORE INVOLVED. OUR TRAINEES THINK THE SAME THING. , THANK YOU BOTH VERY MUCH. REALLY APPRECIATE YOU, AND WE'RE VERY FORTUNATE TO HAVE YOU AND YOUR EXPERTISE AS PET AS, AS PART OF OUR PROGRAM. SO THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OKAY, WE'RE ONTO OUR LAST ITEM. DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OF ANYONE FOR ANYTHING? ALL RIGHT. HEARING NONE, LET'S PROCEED TO AGENDA ITEM 10, WHICH IS THE ADJOURNMENT. DO YOU HAVE A MOTION TO ADJOURN? MOTION TO ADJOURN. THANK YOU. SECOND. SECOND. OKAY. THANK YOU. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED? OKAY. THANK YOU ALL AND AGAIN, MAKE EVERY EFFORT YOU CAN TO ATTEND THE NOVEMBER MEETING. IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AND ENJOY THE REST OF THE SUMMER. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.