* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [Government Operations Committee on September 2, 2026.] [00:00:17] AND ALSO FROM, UH, IT'S, UH, COUNCILWOMAN TWA CARTER, COUNCILMAN CASTILLO, AND COUNCIL MEMBER, I FORGET PECK. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND, AND ALSO THE MAYOR PRO TEMS OFFICE AS WELL. SO, UM, COUNCIL MEMBERS AND STAFF, PLEASE HOLD YOUR QUESTIONS UNTIL THE END OF PRESENTATIONS. IF THERE ARE ANY MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC THAT WOULD LIKE TO PARTICIPATE IN PUBLIC COMMENT, THERE IS A SIGN IN SHEET AT THE FRONT OF THE TABLE. AND DIRECTOR CHEEKS, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, AND YOU'VE GOT A PRESENTATION. AND, UH, ALSO, ELIZABETH ROGERS, SENIOR DIVISION MANAGER OF EMPLOYEE RELATIONS. WE'LL PROVIDE A REVIEW OF THE CITY OF HOUSTON'S CITY EMPLOYEE ACCOUNTABILITY AND DISCIPLINARY PROCEDURES. SO, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU CHAIR COUNCIL MEMBERS AND COUNCIL MEMBERS STAFF, THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING HR TO PRESENT ON THE CITY EMPLOYEE ACCOUNTABILITY AND DISCIPLINARY PROCEDURES. THE POSITIVE CORRECTIVE ACTION PROGRAM PRIORITIZE IMPROVEMENTS, ACCOUNTABILITY, AND COACHING. AP THREE DASH SEVEN OUTLINES CLEAR, INFORMAL AND FORMAL STEPS TO ENSURE FAIRNESS AND CONSISTENCY. THE GOAL IS NOT PUNISHMENT, BUT A MEANINGFUL BEHAVIORAL CHANGE SUPPORTED BY LEADERSHIP. IT REINFORCES TRANSPARENCY AND DUE PROCESS. IT ALSO ENCOURAGES EARLY INTERVENTION BEFORE ISSUES ESCALATE. AND THE BEAUTY OF POSITIVE CORRECTIVE ACTION PROGRAM IS IT PROVIDES OPPORTUNITY NOT ONLY TO ADDRESS BEHAVIOR, BUT IT SURFACES ANY UNDERLYING ISSUE THAT REQUIRES ADDITIONAL SUPPORT, ACCOMMODATION, OR RESOURCES. USING THE POLICY PROPERLY PROTECTS BOTH EMPLOYEES AND CITY, ENSURING ALL ACTIONS ALIGN WITH LEGAL AND HR STANDARDS. AS I'VE STATED TO SUPERVISORS, MANAGERS, AND EXECUTIVES, IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT WE GIVE OUR EMPLOYEES EVERY OPPORTUNITY TO BE SUCCESSFUL WHILE IMPROVING EMPLOYEE PERFORMANCE AND STRENGTHENING ACCOUNTABILITY. AP THREE DASH SEVEN STEPS ARE AS PO AS FOLLOWS, LEVEL ONE AND LEVEL TWO PROVIDES STRUCTURE WHILE ALLOWING FLEXIBILITY BASED ON SEVERITY AND HISTORY. THE DECISION MAKING LEAVE REMAINS A CRITICAL REFLECTIVE STEP BEFORE SEPARATION. AND ONE THING THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT IS THAT ALL DECISIONS ARE MADE RES BY THE RESPECTIVE DEPARTMENT DIRECTOR. THE CITY IS REVIEWING, RENAMING, AND MODERNIZING OPTIONS TO STRENGTHEN. THE UNDERSTANDING OF AP THREE DASH SEVEN TRAINING IS ACTIVELY UNDERWAY ACROSS DEPARTMENTS REINFORCING CORRECT APPLICATION OF THE POLICY. I WILL NOW TURN THE PRESENTATION OVER TO ELIZABETH ROGERS TO FURTHER DISCUSS AP THREE DASH SEVEN POSITIVE CORRECTIVE ACTION PROGRAM. NEXT SLIDE. SO, PART OF UNDERSTANDING WHY WE USE OUR CURRENT DISCIPLINE MODEL IS RECOGNIZING WHERE WE CAME FROM. FOR MANY YEARS, THE CITY RELIED ON A TRADITIONAL PROGRESSIVE DISCIPLINE SYSTEM BUILT AROUND UNPAID SUSPENSIONS. THOSE SUSPENSIONS RANGED FROM THREE DAYS, 5, 7, 10, AND EVEN 15 DAYS. AND A 15 DAY UNPAID SUSPENSION, IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, IS A WHOLE PAYCHECK. SO THE PHILOSOPHY BEHIND THAT SYSTEM WAS WHAT MANY DESCRIBED AS A POUND OF FLESH APPROACH, THE BELIEF THAT IF DISCIPLINE WAS PAINFUL, EMPLOYEES WOULD AVOID FUTURE VIOLATIONS, BUT THE RESULTS WERE NEGATIVE AND COUNTERPRODUCTIVE. FEAR RESENTMENT, INCONSISTENT IMPROVEMENT, AND OPERATIONAL DISRUPTIONS CAUSED BY REMOVING EMPLOYEES FROM THE WORK WORKFORCE FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME. AS THE CITY EVALUATED THIS MODEL, IT BECAME CLEAR THAT IT DID NOT BUILD A HIGH PERFORMING WORKFORCE. IT DID NOT DRIVE MEANINGFUL CHANGE IN BEHAVIOR, PERFORMANCE, OR ATTENDANCE. THAT RECOGNITION LED US TO PURSUE A BETTER [00:05:01] AND MORE EFFECTIVE APPROACH. NEXT SLIDE. SO, RECOGNIZING THE NEED FOR CHANGE, THE CITY MADE A DELIBERATE SHIFT AWAY FROM THE PUNISHMENT BASED DISCIPLINE AND ADOPTED A MODEL ROOTED IN DICK GROATS DISCIPLINE WITHOUT PUNISHMENT. THIS MODEL FUNDAMENTALLY RESHAPES HOW ORGANIZATIONS THINK ABOUT CORRECTIVE ACTION. BY REPLACING TRADITIONAL PUNISHMENT WITH STRUCTURED RESPECTFUL ACCOUNTABILITY, IT ENCOURAGES EMPLOYEES TO CHANGE THEIR BEHAVIOR THROUGH COMMITMENT, NOT COERCION. THE HOUSTON AIRPORT SYSTEM WAS THE FIRST DEPARTMENT TO PILOT THIS APPROACH DEMONSTRATING THAT POSITIVE ACCOUNTABILITY CAN WORK EFFECTIVELY IN A HIGH DEMAND OPERATIONAL ENVIRONMENT. HOUSTON PUBLIC WORKS EXPANDED THE CONCEPT THROUGH ITS SUPERIOR PERFORMANCE PROGRAM CONFIRMING ITS EFFECTIVENESS ACROSS DIVERSE MUNICIPAL FUNCTIONS. IN 2015, THIS ACCOUNTABILITY FAITH-BASED FRAMEWORK WAS ADOPTED CITYWIDE MARKING A MAJOR SHIFT IN HOW WE MANAGE PERFORMANCE AND BEHAVIOR. THE CITY REPLACED PUNITIVE MEASURES WITH A SYSTEM GROUNDED IN RESPECT, FAIRNESS, AND CONSTRUCTIVE GUIDANCE, ONE THAT AIMS TO HELP EMPLOYEES GENUINELY IMPROVE RATHER THAN SIMPLY ENDURE DISCIPLINE. NEXT SLIDE. AP THREE DASH SEVEN REFLECTED THAT REFLECTS THAT SHIFT. IT'S GROUNDED IN MUTUAL RESPECT, CLARITY, AND EMPLOYEE GROWTH. THE POLICY SETS EXPECTATIONS IN A CONSISTENT, PREDICTABLE WAY FOR OUR CIVIL SERVICE WORKFORCE. AND IMPORTANTLY, AP THREE DASH SEVEN DOES NOT AIM TO PUNISH SOMEONE INTO COMPLIANCE. IT AIMS TO HELP EMPLOYEES UNDERSTAND EXPECTATIONS AND SUCCEED IN MEETING THEM. IT IS ALSO IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THE SCOPE OF THIS POLICY. IT APPLIES TO OUR CIVILIAN CIVIL SERVICE WORKFORCE OPERATING UNDER CHAPTER 14 OF THE CODE OF ORDINANCES. THE ONLY EXCEPTION IS THE CIVILIAN CIVIL SERVICE EMPLOYEES OF THE HOUSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT. IT DOES NOT APPLY TO PROBATIONARY, PART-TIME, TEMPORARY CONTRACT, EXECUTIVE LEVEL, OR CLASSIFIED EMPLOYEES. NEXT SLIDE. THE OBJECTIVE OF THIS POLICY IS TO GIVE SUPERVISORS THE TOOLS TO COMMUNICATE CLEARLY, CONSTRUCTIVELY AND SUPPORTIVELY. WHEN IMPROVEMENT IS NEEDED, IT INTRODUCES POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT INTO THE CORRECTION PROCESS, AND IT ASKS EMPLOYEES TO ACTIVELY PARTICIPATE IN DETERMINING HOW THEY WILL MEET EXPECTATIONS. THIS SHIFT FROM REACTING TO PROBLEMS TO HELPING EMPLOYEES MAKE INTENTIONAL CHOICES IS ESSENTIAL TO IMPROVING PERFORMANCE IN A MEANINGFUL WAY. NEXT SLIDE. ONE OF THE KEY TOOLS BUILT, BUILT INTO A THREE DASH SEVEN TO PROMOTE CONSISTENCY AND FAIRNESS IS THE SERIOUSNESS LEVEL CHART. IT HELPS SUPERVISORS EVALUATE THE SEVERITY OF AN ISSUE AND SELECT THE CORRECTIVE ACTION THAT BEST FITS THE SITUATION BY GROUNDING DECISIONS IN CLEAR CRITERIA RATHER THAN EMOTION. THIS CHART ENSURES THAT CORRECTIVE ACTIONS ARE ALIGNED WITH POLICY AND APPLIED TRANSPARENT TRANSPARENTLY ACROSS ALL DEPARTMENTS. NEXT SLIDE. INVESTIGATIONS ARE A CRITICAL COMPONENT OF OUR CORRECTIVE ACTION PROCESS. THEY ENSURE DECISIONS ARE BASED ON FACTS, NOT ASSUMPTIONS, EMOTION, OR SNAP JUDGEMENTS. STRAIGHTFORWARD MATTERS SUCH AS ATTENDANCE OR BASIC MISCONDUCT ARE HANDLED WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT OR HR EMPLOYEE RELATIONS. MORE COMPLEX CASES, ESPECIALLY THOSE THAT INVOLVE DATA RECORDS AND VIDEO REVIEW, ARE ASSIGNED TO THE GENERAL SERVICES DEPARTMENT SECURITY MANAGEMENT DIVISION. AND THEN THE MOST SERIOUS ALLEGATIONS, INCLUDING DISCRIMINATION, HARASSMENT, OR WORKPLACE VIOLENCE, ARE INVESTIGATED BY OUR OFFICE OF INSPECTOR GENERAL CORRECTIVE. ACTIONS THAT ARE BUILT ON VERIFIED FACTS FROM A THOROUGH INVESTIGATION ARE MORE DEFENSIBLE AND BETTER PROTECT BOTH EMPLOYEES AND THE CITY. NEXT SLIDE. AS DEPARTMENTS DECIDE HOW TO APPLY CORRECTIVE ACTION, HR AND LEGAL USE THE SEVEN TESTS OF JUST CAUSE TO DETERMINE WHETHER A PROPOSED ACTION IS APPROPRIATE, FAIR AND CAPABLE OF WITHSTANDING CHALLENGE. THESE TESTS ENSURE EMPLOYEES WERE MADE AWARE OF EXPECTATIONS. THE RULES ARE REASONABLE AND APPLIED CONSISTENTLY, AND THAT INVESTIGATIONS ARE THOROUGH AND OBJECTIVE. THEY REQUIRE CLOSE ATTENTION TO WHETHER EVIDENCE IS SUBSTANTIAL, WHETHER SIMILAR CASES RECEIVED EQUAL TREATMENT, AND WHETHER THE LEVEL OF DISCIPLINE MATCHES THE SERIOUSNESS OF THE CONDUCT AND THE EMPLOYEE'S RECORD. WHAT MATTERS IS THAT THESE TESTS PREVENT CORRECTIVE ACTION FROM BECOMING ARBITRARY. THEY ENSURE DECISIONS ARE ROOTED IN FACT AND SUPPORTED BY CLEAR JUSTIFICATION PROPORTIONATE TO THE SITUATION. AND THIS STRENGTHENS THE CITY'S ABILITY TO UPHOLD ACCOUNTABILITY, FAIRNESS, AND DUE PROCESS RIGHTS. [00:10:01] NEXT SLIDE. CORRECTIVE ACTION UNDER P THREE DASH SEVEN INCLUDES BOTH INFORMAL AND FORMAL STEPS. INFORMAL APPROACHES INCLUDE COACHING AND PERFORMANCE IMPROVEMENT DISCUSSIONS WHICH AIM AT ARE AIMED AT ADDRESSING CONCERNS EARLY AND COLLABORATIVELY. THE GOALS OF THESE INFORMAL APPROACHES IS TO PROVIDE EARLY INTERVENTION SO THAT FORMAL CORRECTIVE ACTION IS NOT REQUIRED. FORMAL STEPS ESCALATE THROUGH LEVEL ONE, LEVEL TWO IN DECISION MAKING, LEAVE EACH WITH STRUCTURED DOCUMENTATION DEFINED ACTIVE PERIODS. AND THIS PROGRESSION GIVES EMPLOYEES MULTIPLE OPPORTUNITIES TO IMPROVE WHILE MAINTAINING A CLEAR AND CONSISTENT FRAMEWORK. NEXT SLIDE. WHILE WE DO GENERALLY FOLLOW THE PROGRESSION SEQUENCE OF CORRECTIVE ACTION, REPEATED VIOLATIONS AFTER AN ACTIVE PERIOD MAY JUSTIFY MOVING TO A MORE SERIOUS LEVEL. IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS, INCLUDING SEXUAL HARASSMENT, WORKPLACE VIOLENCE, THEFT, OR FALSIFYING CITY DOCUMENTS, A DEPARTMENT MAY PROCEED DIRECTLY TO INDEFINITE SUSPENSION. THESE EXCEPTIONS PROTECT WORKPLACE SAFETY, UPHOLD ORGANIZATIONAL INTEGRITY, AND PRESERVE PUBLIC TRUST. NEXT SLIDE. AS WE EVALUATE CORRECTIVE ACTION UNDER AP THREE DASH SEVEN, IT IS IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT ACCOUNTABILITY MUST BE BALANCED WITH MEANINGFUL ACCESS TO DUE PROCESS. THE GRIEVANCE AND APPEAL PROCESS PROVIDES EMPLOYEES WITH A FORMAL, STRUCTURED AND TRANSPARENT WAY TO CHALLENGE DECISIONS THEY BELIEVE ARE INCORRECT OR DISPROPORTIONATE. EMPLOYEES MAY FILE A GRIEVANCE FOR A LEVEL ONE, A LEVEL TWO, AND DECISION MAKING LEAVE. AND FOR MORE SERIOUS ACTIONS SUCH AS INDEFINITE SUSPENSION OR INVOLUNTARY DEMOTION, EMPLOYEES HAVE THE RIGHT TO APPEAL TO THE CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION ENSURING INDEPENDENT REVIEW. THESE PROTECTIONS REINFORCE FAIRNESS, TRANSPARENCY, AND TRUST IN THE ACCOUNTABILITY PROCESS. NEXT SLIDE. SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND ATTENTION AND I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PRESENTATION AT THIS TIME. COUNCILWOMAN ALCORN. SO HOW MANY, HOW MANY PEOPLE GO THROUGH THIS A YEAR? OR I MEAN, LIKE HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU GO THROUGH ALL THIS? IS THERE A NUMBER? IS IT LIKE EVERY, I MEAN, IT VARIES EVERY YEAR. SURE. UM, I WOULD SAY IN TOTALITY, UM, IT'S, IT'S UPWARDS OF, YOU KNOW, HUNDREDS OF CASES MM-HMM . FROM LEVEL ONE ALL THE WAY TO DECISION MAKING LEAVE. IF WE WERE TO BREAK IT DOWN, WE DEFINITELY DO SEE MORE LEVEL ONES SURE. THAN WE DO THE DECISION MAKING LEAVES OR INDEFINITE SUSPENSIONS. THE DE THE NUMBERS DEFINITELY GO DOWN YEAH. AS WE GO UP IN THE SEVERITY OF THE, OF THE CASES THAT WE SEE. OKAY. YES. ACROSS ALL DEPARTMENTS. AND WHAT, WHERE DO HPD CIVILIAN, HOW ARE THEY TREATED DIFFERENTLY? HPD CIVILIAN, THEY ARE COVERED UNDER A DIFFERENT, UH, UNDER TEXAS STATUTE THE SAME THAT THE HPD OFF OFFICERS ARE COVERED UNDER. OKAY. YES. OKAY. OKAY, THANKS. WE'VE BEEN JOINED BY COUNCILMAN DAVIS AND OBVIOUSLY COUNCILWOMAN ALCORN. SORRY FOR ADMITTING THAT. UM, ALSO STAFF FROM COUNCIL MEMBER MARTINEZ AND COUNCILWOMAN THOMAS HAVE JOINED US AS WELL. UH, COUNCILMAN RAMIREZ. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. AND THANK YOU BOTH FOR THE PRESENTATION. JUST A FEW QUESTIONS HERE. LOOKING AT SLIDE NUMBER EIGHT, WHICH IS, UH, GRAPHIC SEVEN TESTS OF JUST CAUSE. NUMBER TWO IS, IS THE WORKPLACE POLICY ARBITRARY OR DISCRIMINATORY? DOES IT RELATE TO THE EMPLOYER'S GOALS OR OBJECTIVES? ARE WE, ARE WE TYPICALLY TALKING ABOUT WRITTEN POLICIES OR YES. WRITTEN POLICIES? AND YOU PROBABLY ARE AWARE THAT POLICIES GENERALLY HAVE TO BE LOOKED AT BY HR AND ALSO BY THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT SO THAT WE CAN ENSURE THAT THEY ARE MEETING THAT, THAT LITMUS TEST OF WHETHER THEY ARE ARBITRARY OR DISCRIMINATORY AND WHETHER THEY DO RELATE TO THE EMPLOYER'S GOALS OR OBJECTIVES. SO, SO WHY ISN'T THIS QUESTION ANSWERED AT THE FRONT END WHEN THE POLICY IS ADOPTED? I'M GOING TO DEFER TO THE DIRECTOR ON THIS ONE. . SO, UH, COUNCIL MEMBER THIS, THIS, THEY ARE LOOKED AT MM-HMM . THAT THESE QUESTIONS ARE ANSWERED AS, AS WE REVIEW POLICIES, WE LOOK AT POLICIES, WHEN WE GET TO THIS POINT, WE ARE LOOKING AT A SPECIFIC CASE, AND WE'RE ONLY GOING BACK TO ENSURE THAT EVERYTHING IS ALL I'S ARE DOTTED, ALL T'S ARE ACROSS. SO I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT ALL POLICIES THAT ARE PUT INTO PLACE, WE HAVE ALREADY REVIEWED AND ENSURED THAT THEY MEET. AS YOU SAY THAT, THAT LITMUS TEST THAT WE'VE DONE THE THINGS THAT NEED TO BE DONE, BUT AS WE GO THROUGH EACH INDIVIDUAL CASE, WE ALWAYS GO BACK TO ENSURE THAT WE'RE STILL MAKING SURE THAT IT, IT MEETS NUMBER TWO. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. ANOTHER QUESTION, THE OLD MODEL, UH, [00:15:01] WASN'T WORKING ACCORDING TO, UH, THE PRESENTATION AND THE NEW MODEL WAS ADOPTED. DID I HEAR 2015? 2015, CORRECT. YES. 2015. SO, UM, IS THE NEWER MODEL WORKING BETTER THAN THE OLD MODEL? AND, UM, IF SO, HOW, HOW ARE WE MEASURING THAT? OR HOW ARE WE DETERMINING THAT IT, IN FACT, IT IS WORKING BETTER? SO, AS ELIZABETH SAID, UM, WHAT WE DO SEE IS THAT AT THE BEGINNING WHERE WE ARE LOOKING AT OUR PERFORMANCE IMPROVEMENT DISCUSSIONS AND OUR LEVEL ONES, WE SEE A VERY HIGH AMOUNT OF INDIVIDUALS THAT WE HAVE TO DO THOSE DISCUSSIONS WITH. WHAT WE DO REALIZE THAT, AND, AND WILL BE ABLE TO QUANTIFY NOW THAT WE HAVE A SYSTEM, IS THAT WE SEE THAT BY THE TIME THAT WE GET TO DMLS, THAT WE DO NOT HAVE THAT SAME LEVEL, UH, A NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES THAT ARE NOW AT A DML. SO WE REALIZE THAT HAVING THOSE DISCUSSIONS, BEING ABLE TO HAVE THE EMPLOYEE GIVE BUY IN AS TO WHAT THEY ARE ALSO GONNA DO WITH RESPECT TO MAKING THE SITUATION RIGHT AND WHOLE, THAT WE BELIEVE THAT IT WORKS MUCH BETTER. AGAIN, ALL WE WERE DOING, AND IT WAS, IT PREDATES ME EVEN COMING TO THE CITY, WAS SENDING PEOPLE HOME, WHICH WAS AFFECTING, UH, THE WORKPLACE BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE THERE DOING THEIR WORK. AND THEN SECONDARILY, IT WAS AFFECTING THE LIVELIHOODS OF THE EMPLOYEES WHO THEN WERE JUST LOSING PAY. THEY WERE ONLY COMING BACK JUST AS MAD. SO THAT WAS NOT HELPING THEM TO IMPROVE. WE WANTED TO SHOW AND WE WANT TO ENSURE ALL OF OUR EMPLOYEES THAT WE WANT THEM TO BE SUCCESSFUL. THERE COULD JUST BE A CIRCUMSTANCE, LET'S TALK ABOUT IT, LET'S WORK THROUGH IT AND LET'S CONTINUE TO GO. THAT SHOULDN'T STOP YOU FROM GOING THROUGH YOUR CAREER HERE AT THE CITY. MM-HMM . AND DO YOU KEEP ANY STATISTICS ON NUMBER OF VIOLATIONS OR, UM, AND HOW DOES, HOW DO THE RECENT STATISTICS COMPARE TO, UH, THOSE THAT YOU HAD, IF YOU HAD ANY UNDER THE OLD SYSTEM? SO WE, THE, THE OLDER KEEPING STATISTICS ON THE, ON THE PREVIOUS, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T, WE DID NOT KEEP UP WITH THAT INFORMATION. UM, AND SO NOW OBVIOUSLY WE ARE DOING THAT. WE HAVE A NEW, UH, PORTAL WHERE WE ARE ABLE TO PUT ALL OF OUR INFORMATION IN, WE'RE ABLE TO RUN REPORTS, WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO REALLY SEE, UM, NOT ONLY ARE WE GONNA BE ABLE TO SEE THE LEVELS, BUT WE'RE ALSO ABLE TO EVEN DRILL DOWN FURTHER TO SEE THE TYPES OF INFRACTIONS THAT WE'RE SEEING. SO IF WE NEED TO LOOK AT THAT AREA AND SAY, OKAY, WE'VE SEEN AN INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF ACTIONS FOR THIS SPECIFIC POLICY VIOLATION, MAYBE WE NEED TO DO SOME ADDITIONAL TRAINING, UM, SO THAT WE CAN ENSURE THAT EMPLOYEES UNDERSTAND WHAT'S EXPECTED OF THEM. AND SO THAT IS OUR GOAL FROM THIS NEW SYSTEM, IS TO BE ABLE TO REALLY SEE A MUCH MORE COMPREHENSIVE LOOK AT, UH, THE CORRECTIVE ACTIONS THAT WE ARE, ARE, UH, GIVING TO EMPLOYEES. SO THE NEW PART OF THE SYSTEM, IS IT JUST RECORD KEEPING OR HAS ANYTHING ELSE CHANGED? IT, IT'S, IT'S RECORD KEEPING, BUT LIKE I SAID, IT ALSO, WE, WE ARE ABLE TO PULL OUT MORE DATA FROM THE INFORMATION THAT WE ARE KEEPING NOW AND A, IN A CENTRALIZED LOCATION. BEFORE IT WASN'T CENTRALIZED, EVERY AREA WAS KEEPING IT FOR THEIR OWN RESPECTIVE DEPARTMENTS THAT THEY WERE SERVING. NOW WE ARE OR ARE PUTTING IT ALL TOGETHER IN ONE LOCATION SO WE CAN LOOK AT THIS CITYWIDE, NOT JUST PER DEPARTMENT. AND, AND WHEN DID THE NEW SYSTEM GO ONLINE? IT JUST WENT ONLINE AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS YEAR. OKAY. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. YES. STAFF FROM, UH, COUNCILWOMAN SALINAS'S OFFICE HAS JOINED US. UM, DIRECTOR, THE CATALYST FOR THIS WAS THE REPORT ON KHOU, UH, THAT SHOWED AN EMPLOYEE THAT WENT FISHING ON FIVE SEPARATE OCCASIONS WHILE HE WAS WORKING. AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT HE WAS NOT TERMINATED FOR THAT, BUT HE WAS ACTUALLY TERMINATED FOR A THREAT THAT HE MADE TO ANOTHER EMPLOYEE. IS THAT ACCURATE? WAS THE, WAS THE REPORT CORRECT. SO HE WAS, HE WAS TERMINATED FOR BOTH. UM, I I THINK THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN A LITTLE MISCONSTRUED IN THE, IN THE ARTICLE. OKAY. AND ALSO, UH, THE FIVE DIFFERENT TIMES IT WAS A LOOKBACK PERIOD. SO, UM, THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION CAME IN TO THE MAYOR'S OFFICE. THE CITIZEN DIDN'T PROVIDE US WITH ANY INFORMATION. WE HAD TO REALLY DIG DEEP TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHO THE EMPLOYEE WAS. WE USED OUR GPS DATA ON THE, THE VEHICLES THAT WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO FIND THAT PERSON. AND THEN WE LAUNCHED AN INVESTIGATION BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY EVIDENCE TO PROVE THAT HE WAS GOING OUT AND FISHING. OKAY. LIKE I SAID, THE, THE CITIZEN DIDN'T PROVIDE US PICTURES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. SO THOSE PICTURES THAT YOU SAW WERE ACTUALLY TAKEN THROUGH THAT INVESTIGATION THAT HAPPENED. OKAY. WHILE WE WERE INVESTIGATING THE FISHING, UM, THERE HAD BEEN [00:20:01] SOME INTERVIEWS DONE BY SOME EMPLOYEES THAT WORKED WITH THIS GENTLEMAN, AND THAT THAT IS WHEN IT WAS REPORTED THAT HE HAD THREATENED SOMEBODY. SO THERE WERE ACTUALLY TWO INVESTIGATIONS OKAY. IN TOTAL. AND ALL OF THAT INFORMATION FROM BOTH WAS CON COMBINED INTO THE INDEFINITE SUSPENSION. OKAY. GOD FORBID THE MEDIA GET IT RIGHT ALL THE TIME. RIGHT. . SO THANK YOU FOR, FOR CLARIFYING THAT. ABSOLUTELY. UM, IT'S A HYPOTHETICAL, IF HE HAD BEEN CAUGHT FISHING, WHAT WOULD'VE BEEN THE COURSE OF ACTION IF HE HAD BEEN CAUGHT IN THAT MOMENT? I MEAN, RATHER AND SAY THE CITIZEN REPORTED IT, CITIZEN HAD VIDEO REPORTED IT TO YOU, YOU KNOW, IMMEDIATELY WHO IT WAS. IF WE HAD THE APPROPRIATE INFORMATION, WE DO NOT HAVE TO WAIT ON AN OIG INVESTIGATION TO CONCLUDE IF WE BELIEVE WE HAVE SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE. OKAY. UM, WE WOULD MOVE ON IT MUCH QUICKER THAN WE HAD IN THIS CASE, BECAUSE LIKE I SAID, WE JUST DIDN'T HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION. OKAY. AND, AND WHAT WOULD'VE BEEN THE COURSE OF ACTION? MORE THAN LIKELY WE WOULD'VE RECOMMENDED AND, OR THE DEPARTMENT PROBABLY WOULD'VE RECOMMENDED IN DEFINITE SUSPENSION BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMEBODY THAT IS POTENTIALLY, UM, YOU KNOW, STEALING CITY TIME. UM, AND THAT'S ANOTHER THING WE HAD TO LOOK AT, WHEN WAS HE DOING THIS? 'CAUSE YOU KNOW, HE MAY HAVE COME BACK AND SAY THAT HE WAS DOING IT ON HIS LUNCH BREAK, YOU KNOW. OKAY. YOU SAY HE'D BEEN DOING IT FOR THREE HOURS? FOR THREE HOURS, WHICH WOULD NOT INCLUDE HIS LUNCH BREAK WOULD BE CONSIDERED TO BE THEFT OF TIME. AND AS WE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE, THAT WOULD BE ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT POTENTIALLY COULD LEAD TO A INDEFINITE SUSPENSION WITHOUT ANY OTHER PREVIOUS CORRECTIVE ACTION. OKAY. IT'S A, IT'S A SERIOUS EGREGIOUS, UH, BREACH IN, IN OUR, UM, THE EXPECTATIONS OF OUR EMPLOYEES. SO, INDEFINITE SUSPENSION. YES. TERMINATION. TALK ME THROUGH THAT. TERMINATION. TERMINATION. OKAY. SO HEDA WOULD'VE BEEN TERMINATED, CORRECT? YES. TERMIN. OKAY. COUNCILMAN RAMIREZ? YES. THANKS. UM, SO IN REGARDS TO SLIDE NUMBER SEVEN, WHICH IS TITLED INVESTIGATIONS MM-HMM . UH, SOME ARE DONE BY GSD SECURITY MANAGEMENT, AND THAT'S DESCRIBED AS THOSE THAT REQUIRE EXTENSIVE GATHERING REVIEW OF VIDEO, COMPUTER DATA, EMPLOYEE RECORDS, FOR EXAMPLE, STEALING TIME. AND THEN THE LAST EXAMPLE THERE, INAPPROPRIATE USE OF RESOURCES BO BOTH OF THOSE COULD BE CRIMES. AND I'M WONDERING, IS THERE A PROCESS, UH, THROUGH WHICH SOME CASES ARE REFERRED TO THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE FOR CONSIDERATION? HOW, HOW DOES THAT WORK? YES, THAT IS ACTUALLY TRUE. WE, WE HAVE HAD CASES WHERE THERE WAS SOME ACTUAL CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR, UM, AND, AND, UH, WE DO WORK, UH, WITH THE OIG, UM, AND OTHER, OTHER RESOURCES THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK INTO POSSIBLY, UH, GETTING WITH THE, THE DA TO SEE IF THEY'RE GONNA WANNA PRESS CHARGES FOR THOSE, THOSE SITUATIONS. AND WE ALSO GET HPD SOMETIMES INVOLVED AS, AS WELL. YEAH. AND WE CONTINUOUSLY WORK WITH THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT ON ALL ACTIONS THAT REALLY DEAL WITH OUR EMPLOYEES. SO IT'S THE MATTER OF HOW EGREGIOUS IT IS. I MEAN, I'M, UH, WE DON'T GO TO LEGAL FOR EVERYTHING. WE FOLLOW OUR POLICIES AND PROCEDURES, BUT WHEN IT'S NECESSARY TO GO OUTSIDE, WE DEFINITELY, OUR FIRST STOP IS OUR LEGAL DEPARTMENT, AND THEN WE, WE GET TOGETHER WITH WHOMEVER WE'RE RECOMMENDED TO, TO WHETHER THAT'S THE DA OR TO PROVIDE THE INFORMATION. BUT GSD SECURITY MANAGEMENT IS, IS INTRICATELY INVOLVED IN A, IN A LOT OF THE INVESTIGATIONS AND GIVES US THE INFORMATION THAT WE NEED TO GO FORWARD. AND SO WHO WOULD BE INVOLVED IN, IN THE DECISION MAKING, WHETHER OR NOT TO REFER SOMETHING TO THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE? THAT WOULD STILL BE IN THE HANDS OF THE DIRECTOR, COUNCIL MEMBER. BUT WHAT WE WOULD DO IS THAT THAT DIRECTOR WOULD BE TALKING DIRECTLY WITH LEGAL AND WITH HR GOING FORWARD. BUT, UH, AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHAT'S VERY IMPORTANT IS THAT, UM, EVERY DEPARTMENT DIRECTOR MUST MAKE THE DECISION. IT IS NOT THE DECISION OF, UH, HR, IT'S NOT THE DECISION OF LEGAL. THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT ARE JUST SO EGREGIOUS. UM, I, WE HAVE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH A DIRECTOR KNOWING THAT THIS MUST GO A STEP FURTHER, BUT IT IS THEIR DECISION BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO SIGN OFF ON IT. OKAY. THANK YOU. YES, SIR. STAFF FROM COUNCILWOMAN SALINAS. CHAIR. GOOD AFTERNOON. THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRESENTATION. UM, GOOD AFTERNOON. THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRESENTATION. THANK YOU, CHAIR. UH, I WAS TUNING IN VIRTUALLY AND APOLOGIZE IF I MISSED THIS. UH, BUT DOES THIS PROCESS AND THESE SAME STANDARDS APPLY FOR ELECTED OFFICIALS AS WELL? IT, UH, NO, IT DOES NOT. OKAY. AND WHAT WOULD THAT PROCESS BE IF THERE WERE TO INVESTIGATE SOME SORT OF REPORT ABOUT, UH, AN ELECTED OFFICIAL? I'M GONNA LET YOU HANDLE THAT , I, I DIDN'T WANNA TALK OVER NO, NO, YOU'RE GOOD. SO FOR AN, AN ELECTED OFFICIAL, UM, YOU KNOW, MOST OF THE TIME THOSE GO THROUGH OUR LEGAL DEPARTMENT. UM, I MEAN, IT WON'T BE THAT HR IS NOT CONSULTED WITH, UH, AND, AND EVEN THE ADMINISTRATION, UH, BECAUSE, UH, YOU ALL ARE NOT CIVIL SERVICE PROTECTED. AND, [00:25:01] AND THIS POLICY GOVERNS CIVIL SERVICE PROTECTED EMPLOYEES. UH, THERE HAVE BEEN DISCIPLINARY, UH, ISSUES THAT HAVE OCCURRED, UH, IN COUNCIL. AND WE ARE THERE AS AN ADVISOR BODY AS TO WHAT CAN HAPPEN. UH, BUT THERE IS NO CIVIL SERVICE PROTECTION. WONDERFUL. THANK YOU SO MUCH. YOU'RE WELCOME. COUNCILWOMAN ALCORN ON THE CIVIL SERVICE PROTECTION QUESTION. SO A DEPARTMENT DIRECTOR MAKES THE ULTIMATE DECISION WHETHER TO PUT SOMEBODY ON INDEFINITE SUSPENSION OR, UM, TERMINATION. AND THEN THAT THOSE CIVIL SERVICE PROTECTIONS PLAY IN IF THE, IF THE, UH, EMPLOYEE APPEALS THAT CORRECT? CORRECT. I MEAN, CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION OR ANYTHING ISN'T INVOLVED UNLESS THE EMPLOYEE APPEALS THAT, AND THEN IT GOES TO CIVIL SERVICE AND THERE'S A TIMEFRAME YES. IN WHICH, UH, THE DISCIPLINE DISCIPLINARY ACTION HAS TO OCCUR. WHAT IS IT? UH, WELL, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE, THE 180 DAYS? YES. YES. A HUNDRED. IS THAT 180 DAYS FROM, FROM WHENEVER THE, THE, WHEN THE DEPARTMENT DIRECTOR OR THE INVESTIGATIVE BODY BECOMES AWARE OF THE INFRACTION, UM, THEN WE HAVE 180 DAYS FROM THAT DATE TO, UH, TO ACTUALLY ISSUE WHATEVER FORMAL CORRECTIVE ACTION IS GOING TO BE ISSUED. AND THEN IF IT IS INDEFINITE SUSPENSION, THE EMPLOYEE HAS 10 DAYS TO APPEAL TO THE CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION FOLLOWING THE ISSUANCE OF THAT INDEFINITE SUSPENSION. OKAY. 10 DAYS. AND, AND WHY THE DIFFERENT TERMINOLOGY BETWEEN, UH, SUSPENSION AND TERMINATION? WHAT, UH, SO, UH, AN EMPLOYEE THAT IS INDEFINITELY SUSPENDED CAN NEVER COME BACK AND WORK FOR THE CITY AGAIN. OH, OKAY. IN THE FUTURE. SO IT'S, IT'S THE TERM WE UTILIZE FOR CIVIL SERVICE. WE ALSO HAVE TERMINATIONS FOR PROBATIONARY EMPLOYEES. OKAY. UM, SO WE CALL THEM THEM PROBATIONARY TERMINATIONS. UM, THEY, THEY CAN COME BACK. OKAY. EVEN IF THEY'RE TERMINATED. SO 10 DAYS WITHIN THE DECISION THAT THE EMPLOYEE HAS TO APPEAL IT TO THE COMMISSION? CORRECT. YES. AND THEN ARE THERE TIME LIMITS ON HOW LONG THE COMMISSION HAS TO YEAH. SO FROM THE DATE THAT THEY APPEAL, WE HAVE 30 DAYS TO SCHEDULE A HEARING BEFORE THE CIVIL, THE CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION, ALTHOUGH THERE IS ALSO, UM, IN THE NEW, THE MCA, THERE WAS A, A WAY TO EXTEND THAT. IF FOR SOME REASON THE COMMISSION IS UNABLE TO MEET DURING THAT 30 DAYS, THEY CAN ACTUALLY EXTEND IT FOR AN ADDITIONAL 30 DAYS. SO UP TO 60 DAYS. UM, BUT WE DO HAVE TO HAVE IT DONE WITHIN THAT TIMEFRAME, UM, IN ORDER. AND THERE'S NO PAYMENT TO THE EMPLOYEE DURING THAT TIME PERIOD? NOT DURING THAT TIME. OKAY. NO. YEAH. IF THE COMMISSION WERE TO PUT THE EMPLOYEE BACK TO, TO WORK, WERE TO OVERTURN THE DEPARTMENT'S DECISION, THEN THEY GET PAID BACK FROM, THEY GET THE BACK PAY, YES. OKAY. YES. OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YES, YOU'RE WELCOME. YES, MA'AM. CAN YOU WALK ME THROUGH THE ABSENTEEISM? HOW IS THAT TRACKED AND WHAT ARE THEY HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO? SURE. EVERY DEPARTMENT HAS ITS OWN ABSENTEE POLICY, OR THEY ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE THEIR OWN ABSENCE POLICY BECAUSE EVERY DEPARTMENT IS DIFFERENT. THEY ALL HAVE THEIR OWN NEEDS. SOME OF OUR DEPARTMENTS ARE 24 7 OPERATIONS, SO THEY'RE CLEARLY GONNA HAVE DIFFERENT NEEDS THAN A DEPARTMENT THAT WE ONLY WORKS EIGHT TO FIVE. SO WE HAVE THREE DASH 11, WHICH IS A BROAD OVER OVERVIEW, UH, ATTENDANCE POLICY. BUT IN THAT POLICY, IT SPECIFICALLY SAYS THAT DEPARTMENT DIRECTORS CAN CREATE THEIR OWN ATTENDANCE STANDARDS FOR THEIR, FOR THEIR RESPECTIVE DEPARTMENTS. SO WE HAVE TO LOOK AT EACH OF THOSE IN THOSE POLICIES INDEPENDENTLY. UM, WHENEVER WE ARE ASKED TO DO SOME KIND OF CORRECTIVE ACTION RELATED TO ATTENDANCE. ATTENDANCE IN GENERAL IS A ONE STEP INFRACTION. AND WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS WE WOULD TYPICALLY FOLLOW THE PROGRESSION ALL THE WAY UP THROUGH INDEFINITE SUSPENSION. SO WE DON'T TYPICALLY JUMP FROM A LEVEL ONE ALL THE WAY TO A DML FOR AN ATTENDANCE ISSUE. OKAY. SO YOU, YOU SAID THERE'S A BROAD POLICY, SO, UH, ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURE THREE DASH 11 IS, IS THE ABSENCE POLICY? THAT IS THE CITY'S ATTENDANCE POLICY. UM, THAT, THAT GIVES A GENERAL BROAD OVERVIEW OF WHAT THE EXPECTATIONS ARE FOR EMPLOYEES. OKAY. BUT AGAIN, EACH DEPARTMENT THEN CAN HAVE THEIR OWN SPECIFIC GUIDELINES FOR THE GENERAL BROAD OVERVIEW, WHAT IS THAT? IT JUST GIVES IT AN, YOU KNOW, IT DISCUSSES THAT THERE'S AN EXPECTATION THAT EMPLOYEES COME TO WORK AND THAT THERE'S AN EXPECTATION THAT IF THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO COME TO WORK, THAT THEY CALL THEIR SUPERVISOR. AND IT ALSO GOES INTO OTHER INFORMATION ABOUT A BEREAVEMENT LEAVE AND VACATION TIME AND THAT KIND OF THING. BUT AGAIN, YOU KNOW, EACH DEPARTMENT HAS THEIR OWN NEEDS FOR THEIR EMPLOYEES AND, AND YOU KNOW, HOW THEY REPORT AND THAT KIND OF THING. SO WE, MOST DEPARTMENTS HAVE THEIR OWN ATTENDANCE STANDARDS. OKAY. UM, I GIVE A LITTLE BIT ON MY BACKGROUND. I, I WORKED ON LOGISTICS FOR 27 YEARS. THE LAST 10 YEARS WAS, UH, FOR A COMPANY OWNED BY DUKE POST WORLD NET, WHICH PROBABLY NOBODY HAS HEARD OF. THEY'RE ACTUALLY ONE OF THE TOP FIVE EMPLOYERS IN THE WORLD. UH, DUKE POST, THEY ACTUALLY DID GERMAN POST OFFICE. OKAY. SO THEY OWNED DHLA WHOLE BUNCH OF OTHER COMPANIES. OKAY. AND IT WAS VERY OBJECTIVE AS TO WHAT WAS ALLOWED AND WHAT WAS NOT. YEAH. UM, BASICALLY YOU WERE ALLOWED TO HAVE SO MANY POINTS MM-HMM . AND THE POINTS ACCUMULATED, AND OVER THE COURSE [00:30:01] OF A YEAR, THEY ROLLED OFF. UH, AN ABSENCE WAS, YOU KNOW, SO MANY POINTS TARDY WITH SO MANY POINTS, AND ONCE YOU GOT UP TO THAT NUMBER OF POINTS, YOU WERE GONE. I MEAN, THERE WAS NO IF ANDS OR BUTS ABOUT IT. AND IT WAS VERY OBJECTIVE BECAUSE THAT WAY IT ELIMINATED ANY ISSUES OF DISCRIMINATION OR ANY OTHER FAVORITISM OR, OR WHATEVER. UM, SO I MEAN, IT SOUNDS LIKE THE CITY'S A LITTLE MORE LOOSE ON KIND OF, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY IF THE INDIVIDUAL DEPARTMENTS ARE MAKING THEIR OWN POLICIES. DO, DO WE GO BACK AND REVIEW THOSE OR AGAIN, I THINK THOSE ATTENDANCE POLICIES ARE, ARE GENERALLY REVIEWED BY HR AND ALSO LEGAL TO MAKE SURE. AND I WILL SAY THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE, OF THE POLICIES I HAVE SEEN THAT DEPARTMENTS HAVE ARE VERY STRUCTURED. OKAY. UM, AND IT'S VERY CLEAR WHAT THE EXPECTATION IS. AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE ENCOURAGE WHENEVER WE DO HELP OR WE WORK WITH THE DEPARTMENT, IS THAT WE NEED THEM TO, THEY, THEY, IT NEEDS TO BE CLEAR TO THE EMPLOYEE WHAT THEIR EXPECTATIONS ARE. SO THEY NEED TO KNOW, I'M ALLOWED TO HAVE THIS MANY ABSENCES BEFORE IT'S CONSIDERED TO BE EXCESSIVE. OKAY. AND THAT WAY THEY KNOW GOING INTO THIS, AND AGAIN, THAT KIND OF GOES BACK TO OUR, JUST CAUSE YOU KNOW, IT DOES THE EMPLOYEE KNOW AND UNDERSTAND WHAT THEIR EXPECTATIONS ARE. SO, LIKE I SAID, WE DO, UH, LOOK AT THOSE POLICIES THAT DEPARTMENTS, UH, PUT OUT THERE. YOU KNOW, I KNOW I'M, I'M PERSONALLY INVOLVED AND THEY'LL SEND 'EM TO ME TO HAVE ME LOOK AT, UM, AND ALSO SEND THEM TO, TO LEGAL AND THE ATTORNEY THAT SUPPORTS THAT DEPARTMENT, WE'LL ALSO TAKE A LOOK AT THEM. SO WE DEFINITELY ARE, ARE ENCOURAGING DEPARTMENTS TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE CLEAR, UH, EXPECTATIONS FOR ATTENDANCE. YES. OKAY. UM, GOING BACK TO THE THEFT, IS THERE ANY LEVEL OF THEFT THAT WOULD BE TOLERATED IF SAY, I MEAN, WE'VE, WE'VE, UH, HAD SOME DISCUSSIONS ABOUT FUEL CARDS. IF AN EMPLOYEE DID SOMETHING WITH THE FUEL CARDS TO ENRICH HIMSELF, WHETHER HIS PERSONAL VEHICLE OR WHATEVER, WOULD THAT, IS THAT SOMETHING WHERE, IS IT POSSIBLE THAT HE WOULD NOT BE TERMINATED? UM, OR INDEFINITE SUSPENSION ? SO IN, IN GOING STRAIGHT TO INDEFINITE SUSPENSION, I THINK WITH OUR POSITIVE CORRECTIVE ACTION PROGRAM, UH, EVERYTHING GOES THROUGH A PROCESS. AND AS I SAID THAT SOMETIMES THERE ARE SOME MITIGATING FACTORS THAT HAVE TO BE INVESTIGATED. BUT, UM, TO ANSWER THE QUESTION, WE WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS. AND, AND WHEN WE GET TO THE END, IF ALL THE EVIDENCE SHOWS THAT THIS PERSON SHOULD BE INDEFINITELY SUSPENDED, THEN WE SPEAK WITH THE DIRECTOR, AND THE DIRECTOR MAKES A DECISION TO INDEFINITELY SUSPEND THEM. SO TO SAY THAT EVERY, NO MATTER HOW SMALL IT IS, EVERY INVESTIGATION, THERE IS AN INVESTIGATION FOR EVERY INCIDENT THAT IS BROUGHT TO OUR ATTENTION, WHETHER IT'S US OR WHETHER IT'S, UH, THE, ONE OF THE, THE ENTITIES THAT WE SHOWED YOU. OKAY. SO IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE IF A CITY EMPLOYEE USED A FUEL CARD TO STEAL FUEL, YOU DO AN INVESTIGATION, YOU FIND THAT YES, HE ACTUALLY DID STEAL THE FUEL. IT'S POSSIBLE THAT HE WOULD NOT BE TERMINATED. I CAN'T SAY THAT HE WOULD NOT BE TERMINATED COUNCIL MEMBER BROWN. NO, I SAY POSSIBLE. I MEAN, HE BE, OR HE COULD HAVE INDEFINITE SUSPENSION. HE COULD NOT HAVE, HE COULD HAVE OTHER, ANOTHER FORM OF PUNISHMENT. RIGHT. YES, SIR. BUT I WANNA SAY AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT WOULD STILL HAVE TO BE THE DIRECTOR'S DECISION. OKAY. AND I WANNA MAKE SURE, SO THE DIRECTOR HAS THE DISCRETION TO SAY, NO, I'M NOT GONNA PUT HIM ON INDEFINITE SUSPENSION. YES. IT HAS TO BE HIS YES, IT IS HIS, HIS DECISION. YES, SIR. OKAY. HIS OR HER, I'M SORRY, HIS OR HER DECISION. I'M SORRY. I'M SORRY. I'M KIND OF OLD AND I'M USED TO, SO MY BAD. YES. UH, COUNCIL OR COUNCILMAN HUFFMAN'S OFFICE. THANK YOU, CHAIR. UH, JUST ONE QUICK QUESTION BECAUSE WE ACTUALLY HAD A RESIDENT WHO, UH, WAS A CITY EMPLOYEE WHO ASKED ABOUT MILITARY LEAVE. UM, AND HIS DEPARTMENT WAS UNAWARE THAT, UM, THAT HE COULD, OR, OR WAS ENTITLED TO USE MILITARY LEAVE AS PART OF HIS CATEGORY FOR, YOU KNOW, HIS MILITARY LEAVE. HOW OFTEN DO YOU REVIEW WITH THE DEPARTMENT HEADS, UH, ABOUT THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF CATEGORIES OF LEAVE AND WHAT THEY SPECIFICALLY APPLY TO? THAT'S, THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION, SIR. WE, WE ARE IN THE PROCESS RIGHT NOW WITH OUR CENTER FOR PUBLIC LEADERSHIP AND LEARNING, ACTUALLY CREATING A PROGRAM THAT WILL BE GEARED TO OUR ACTUAL EXECUTIVE LEVEL EMPLOYEES. IT WILL BE A REMINDER OF WHAT THEY NEED TO DO, WHAT THEY SHOULD BE LOOKING AT. SO I THINK, RIGHT, YOU, YOU ASKED AT A VERY GOOD TIME. WE HAVE TWO LEADERSHIP PROGRAMS THAT ARE ABOUT TO COME OUT, UM, AND, AND WE'LL BE ABLE TO ASSIST, ESPECIALLY OUR HIGHER LEVEL MANAGERS AND SUPERVISORS IN UNDERSTANDING THINGS LIKE MILITARY LEAVE AND ALL OF THOSE TYPE OF ABSENCES. I WILL SAY, AS A DIRECTOR, [00:35:01] YOU GET CAUGHT UP IN THE DAY-TO-DAY OF YOUR DEPARTMENT. UH, BUT, BUT I THINK WHAT'S IMPORTANT FOR HR TO, TO DO IS TO HAVE A MECHANISM BY WHICH THESE, UH, EXECUTIVES OR SUPERVISORS OR MANAGERS CAN GO AND BE TAUGHT AND BE REMINDED. AND THESE WILL BE AVAILABLE TO THEM. THEY'RE COMING UP VERY SOON. AND NOW, IS THIS A REQUIREMENT, UH, UH, OF EACH OF THE DEPARTMENT HEADS OR THE EXECUTIVES, OR NOT? UH, I TO SAY RE REQUIRED? UH, WE WILL, WE WILL BE OFFERING IT. IT, AND, AND I'LL BE GLAD TO DISCUSS, AS I ALWAYS DO WITH THE ADMINISTRATION, HOW THEY WOULD LIKE TO GO FORWARD. BUT WE ARE GOING TO START THAT OFFERING BECAUSE WHAT IT ENDED UP TURNING INTO, I THINK, IS, YOU KNOW, UH, THIS RESIDENT WHO HAPPENED TO ALSO BE A CITY EMPLOYEE, UM, SHARED THAT WITH OUR OFFICE AND WE GOT INVOLVED. UM, AND NOW HE'S GOING THROUGH AN INSTANCE WHERE, UH, YOU KNOW, HE HAS SOME GRIEVANCES WITH THE DEPARTMENT BECAUSE HE'S BEEN DEMOTED. NOW, HOW DO, HOW DO, UM, EMPLOYEES HANDLE, UH, TAL OR COMPLAINTS OF RETALIATION IN, IN THAT SPECIFIC INSTANCE? YEAH, RETALIATION IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT WE, UH, SEND TO OIG AND WE ALLOW THEM TO INVESTIGATE THOSE THINGS, THOSE TYPES OF COMPLAINTS. OKAY. I'LL HAVE TO GET WITH YOU GUYS AFTER, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THAT IT HAS GONE TO OIG YET. OKAY, THANKS. GREAT. I JUST GOT ONE LAST POINT. UM, I PROBABLY MANAGED BETWEEN TWO AND 3000 EMPLOYEES OVER THE COURSE OF MY CAREER. UH, I WAS PRETTY SUCCESSFUL AT IT. UM, AND, YOU KNOW, NOT ONLY WERE WE RESPONSIBLE FOR DISCIPLINE EMPLOYEES, UH, WE WERE ALSO HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO TURNOVER. KIND OF GOING BACK TO YOUR ORIGINAL STATEMENT ABOUT HOW THINGS WEREN'T WORKING WELL IN THE PAST. AND IN FACT, NOT ONLY WERE WAS TURNOVER PART OF MY KPIS, IT WAS ALSO PART OF MY BONUS STRUCTURE. SO, I MEAN, IT WAS A BIG DEAL. UM, YOU KNOW, THIS DISCIPLINE WITHOUT PUNISHMENT FOR SOME OF THIS STUFF, I TELL YOU, I, I DON'T KNOW THAT I COULD HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL WITH IT. UH, I MEAN, I JUST REALLY STRUGGLED WITH THIS TO BE HONEST ABOUT IT. SO ANYWAY, ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? I, UH, LEMME SEE WHAT, HAVE WE GOT SPEAKERS? UH, IS THERE ANY PUBLIC SPEAKERS? THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION. YES. UP. KARA PARKER, THE MICROPHONE ON YOUR RIGHT IS ACTIVE. OKAY, THANK YOU. OKAY, SO MY NAME IS KARA PARKER. I AM THE PUBLIC SAFETY DISTRICT REP FOR, UM, HOPE AS WELL AS ONE OF THE CITY'S SUPERVISORS FOR 9 1 1. SO I WANTED TO COME TO PROVIDE CONTEXT FOR, UM, THE DEPARTMENT AND OUR DISCIPLINE PROCESS. UM, GIVING INFORMATION. THE INVESTIGATIVE REPORT IS WHAT CAUSED OUR DEPARTMENT TO BE NAMED IN THE, UM, IN THE NEWS REPORT. AND I BELIEVE THAT THE BIGGEST ISSUE THAT WE HAVE HERE IS NOT NECESSARILY A FAILURE OF THE DISCIPLINE PROCESS. WE HAVE A, A, A GOOD DISCIPLINE, DISCIPLINARY OR CORRECTIVE ACTION PROCESS. IT IS A, A BREAKDOWN WITH THE CONSISTENT APPLICATION OF THOSE POLICIES BETWEEN THE DEPARTMENTS. SO BECAUSE THE CITY DOES A BROAD INTERPRETATION OF, UM, THE POLICIES, AGAIN, UH, AS STATED BEFORE, AP THREE DASH 11 AND AP THREE DASH SEVEN BOTH SPEAK TO THE DISCIPLINE PROCESS AS WELL AS THE ATTENDANCE POLICY. HOWEVER, FOR MY BUILDING, WE HAVE AN ATTENDANCE ISSUE AND THAT WAS NAMED, UM, IN THE REPORT AS WELL. WHEN SOMEONE ASKS LIKE, HOW CAN SOMEONE GET TO 140 HOURS? AND WITHOUT THE PROPER CONTEXT, I THINK, UM, WE WOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE. A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE SAY, WELL, PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO COME TO WORK, OR THEY DON'T, YOU KNOW, UM, TAKE THE POLICY SERIOUSLY, OR THEY DON'T, UM, BELIEVE THAT THE, UH, PROCESS, YOU KNOW, WILL WORK. SO THE CONTEXT THAT I WANNA PROVIDE FOR AN AVERAGE EMPLOYEE, UM, AT MY BUILDING, THE AVERAGE CITY EMPLOYEE WORKS 1,920 HOURS, UM, A YEAR. THAT'S THE EXPECTATION FOR A HECK OR HOUSTON EMERGENCY CENTER EMPLOYEE, PROBATIONARY OR, UM, TENURED. YOU HAVE THE EXPECTATION TO WORK. AND THIS IS SAYING WE HAVE OVERTIME EVERY DAY, MEANING THAT YOU HAVE 12 HOUR SHIFTS EVERY DAY WITHOUT FAIL. DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S BEFORE OR AFTER SHIFT. AND LIKE I SAID, CONTEXT DOES MATTER. SO FOR A STANDARD HOUSTON EMERGENCY CENTER EMPLOYEE, YOU WORK 2,720 HOURS. THAT MEAN THAT IS WITH THE 12 HOURS IF YOU WERE TO WORK A FULL [00:40:01] 80. UH, BECAUSE AT ONE POINT WE DID WORK 16 HOUR SHIFTS, UM, AND THAT WAS WITH PRACTICES OF DOUBLE DRAFTING, ET CETERA, UNTIL WE GOT THE UNION INVOLVED, YOU WOULD WORK 2,880 HOURS BY THAT QUALIFICATION. YOU WOULD RECEIVE, UM, YOU WOULD BE ABLE OR ELIGIBLE TO RECEIVE FMLA OR PPLA PROTECTIVE LEAVE AT 1,250 HOURS. THE AVERAGE EMPLOYEE WORKS TWICE AT YOU, WOULD QUALIFY TWICE. SO INCREASED EXPECTATION OF WORK HOURS, AND THIS IS WITHOUT FAIL. WE ARE A DEPARTMENT THAT IS GOVERNED BY MUNICIPAL POLICIES. HOWEVER, WE HAVE TO OPERATE AS IF WE ARE, UM, ESSENTIAL PERSONNEL, UM, KIND OF QUASI-MILITARY. SO AGAIN, WHEN I SAY WE WORK THESE HOURS CONSISTENTLY WITHOUT FAIL, THAT MEANS THAT OUR ATTENDANCE POLICY IS GOING TO MATCH THE SEVERITY OF THAT REQUEST. THIS MEANS THAT IF YOU ARE UNABLE TO WORK AN OVERTIME SHIFT TWICE IN A 30 DAY PERIOD, YOU ARE NOW GOING TO RECEIVE A CORRECTIVE ACTION. OUR OWN HEAR PROCESS OR HEAR PLAN HAS A MEETS EXPECTATIONS OF, FOR A MINIMUM 80 TO 120 HOURS. THE EMPLOYEE THAT WAS NAMED, OR I SHOULDN'T SAY NAMED IN THE REPORT, BUT WAS SPOKEN OF IN THE REPORT, HAD REACHED 145. SO IF OUR OPERATING STANDARD SAYS THAT THE EXPECTATION BECAUSE WE REQUIRE MORE WORK HOURS FROM YOU IS A THREE, HOW COULD YOU BE FIRED AT GOING OVER IT BY MAYBE 10 TO 15 HOURS? LIKE I, I'M NOT SURE IF PEOPLE ARE UNDERSTANDING THE CONTEXT. YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO PHYSICALLY WORK THOSE HOURS WITHOUT FAIL. AND LIKE I SAID, THE DEPARTMENTAL POLICY IS A INTERPRETATION OF THE CITY'S POLICY. IT HAS TO FIT OUR NEEDS. HOWEVER, OUR NEEDS HAVE NOT KEPT UP WITH THE DEMAND OF THE WORKFORCE. SO WHAT WE'RE ASKING IS WHEN WE GO TO GRIEVANCES AND WE SIT DOWN AND WE HAVE SPECIAL FORMS SUCH AS THIS ONE, THAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE CONTEXT OF WHEN A REPORT SHOULD COME FOR FORTH. YES, SOMEBODY CAN REACH 140 HOURS, BUT IF THEY WORKED 2,880, DOES THAT COMPARE HERE? COUNCILWOMAN ALCORN? SO I SEE WHAT I THINK, I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. LIKE YOU ARE REQUIRED TO WORK MORE HOURS 'CAUSE OF YOUR JOB. SO THE SAME KIND OF HOURLY, YOU KNOW, HOWEVER MANY HOURS IS MISSED, SHOULD BE ADJUSTED. IT, THERE SHOULD BE AN ADJUSTMENT. AND IN OUR HEAR PROCESS, IT IS AN ADJUSTMENT. HOWEVER, IF I PROVIDE YOU THERE IS IN YOUR HERE PROCESS IT YES. IT WAS A PART OF OUR HERE JUST NOT IN THIS DEPARTMENTAL DISCIPLINE. NO, IT'S IN A, IT IS IN A DEPARTMENTAL DISCIPLINE. I CAN SPEAK TO THE ACTUAL DEPARTMENTAL, UM, DISCIPLINE PLAN. SO WHAT, WHAT, WHEN, WHEN IS THE NUMBER INCREASED? NUMBER OF HOURS NOT BEING CONSIDERED? IT'S NEVER NOT BEING CONSIDERED. OKAY. IT IS, IT IS A PART OF THE, THE EVERYDAY PRACTICE ALL DAY, EVERY DAY. SO, AND TO, TO GIVE JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE CONTEXT, OKAY, SO WE DO RUN ATTENDANCE ON A MONTHLY BASIS. LIKE AS I STATED, I'M A SUPERVISOR, I'M ACCOUNTABLE FOR EMPLOYEES. I ALSO, WE OPERATE TWENTY FOUR SEVEN, SO I TAKE CALL OUTS AND, YOU KNOW, UM, LATE ARRIVALS, YOU KNOW, FROM CALL TAKERS ALL DAY LONG. SO WE DO THIS ON A MONTHLY BASIS. WE ALSO DO IT ON THE, UH, WITHIN THE HERE PROCESS, YOU KNOW, ON A, UH, ANNUAL BASIS. AND THEN WE ALSO DISCIPLINE ACCORDING TO THE BENEFIT YEAR, WHICH STARTS OVER SEPTEMBER 1ST. HOWEVER, OUR PRACTICE, OUR POLICIES ARE SO SEVERE THAT THE, YESTERDAY WAS THE BEGINNING OF A NEW BENEFIT YEAR. HOWEVER, IF YOU'VE RECEIVED CORRECTIVE ACTION, THE TIME THAT IS ACCUMULATED ON THE CORRECTIVE ACTION DOES NOT START OVER AND YOU HAVE ADDITIONAL HOURS ADDED ON. SO IF YOU ONLY REACH 80 HOURS FOR THE BENEFIT YEAR, UM, FOR THE, THE PROCESS WE'VE CUT OVER TO A NEW YEAR, YOUR PID, WHICH IS A INFORMAL CORRECTIVE ACTION, TYPICALLY THERE IS NO HOLDOVER PERIOD FOR HOW LONG THAT, THAT, UH, PROCESS IS. IT'S JUST, I TALKED TO YOU TODAY ABOUT IT, IT'S OVER, YOU KNOW, AND WE EXPECT YOUR, WHATEVER THE ISSUE TO IMPROVE. HOWEVER, OUR DEPARTMENT PRACTICES THREE MONTHS. SO IF I RECEIVE A PID FOR ATTENDANCE, BECAUSE THE, YOU KNOW, MY MONTHLY I, I'VE REACHED, YOU KNOW, TWO, UM, UNEXCUSED OVERTIME ABSENCES, RIGHT? I, I JUST WASN'T ABLE TO DO 'EM, 'EM, BUT YOU MAY HAVE KNOWN THAT A DOCTOR'S NOTE COULD HAVE COVERED ME. I WOULD STILL RECEIVE THAT COMMUNICATION THAT PID IF THE NEW BENEFIT YEAR STARTS OVER AND I MISSED ONE DAY OF WORK, NOW I'VE ACCUMULATED EXTRA HOURS. THOSE EXTRA HOURS GET ADDED ON TO THE ALREADY RUNNING TOTAL OF THE YEAR. SO, SO WHAT'S THE ANSWER? WHAT'S THE, WHAT'S THE, WHAT'S THE ASK TO HELP US HAVE A ATTENDANCE POLICY OR A DISCIPLINARY PROCESS THAT MIRRORS WHAT THE CITY SETS AS AN EXPECTATION? OKAY. OUR INTERPRETATION [00:45:01] IS SO SEVERE THAT WE ARE UNABLE TO KEEP STAFFING LEVELS SUFFICIENT. OKAY. THIS CREATES A, A ENDLESS CYCLE OF TURNOVER WHERE WE HAVE A, A ALREADY A HUGE ASK AS A, FOR THE DEPARTMENT AS AN EMPLOYEE, THOSE EXTRA HOURS. SO IF THE PROBATIONARY PERIOD IS ONE YEAR, HOW CAN WE ACTUALLY REASONABLY EXPECT SOMEBODY TO MAKE IT THROUGH THAT PERIOD? IF THE EXPECTATION IS ESSENTIALLY UNREALISTIC, IT DOES NOT FEED THE, I UNDERSTAND. IT DOES NOT MEET THE DEMANDS. OKAY. OKAY. WELL THAT'S SOMETHING I CAN FOLLOW UP WITH, FOLLOW UP ON. OKAY. ALRIGHT. ANY QUESTIONS AS TO WHY I BROUGHT IT UP? OR COUNCILMAN DAVIS? THANK YOU. UH, THANK YOU BROTHER CHAIR. THANK YOU MA'AM FOR COMING TO MAKE YOUR PRESENTATION. AM I TO UNDERSTAND THAT WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR IS A OPPORTUNITY FOR OVERTIME FOR THE HOURS THAT YOU ARE IDENTIFYING OR YOU ASKING THAT YOU GET PAID OVERTIME IN REGARDS TO THAT? NO, WE ALREADY GET PAID OVERTIME. OKAY. I'M ASKING FOR CONCESSIONS TO BE MADE FOR THE, THE INCREASED EXPECTATION OF ADDITIONAL WORK HOURS. MEANING THAT IF YOU ARE EXPECTING ME TO PUT IN ALMOST TWICE THE AMOUNT OF WORK THAT A REGULAR OR NORMAL CITY EMPLOYEE, UM, WORKS, THEN YOU ALSO HAVE TO GIVE ME GRACE, UH, AS A DEPARTMENT, YOU KNOW, AS A WHOLE FOR OUR ATTENDANCE POLICY TO MAKE IT MIRROR YOUR EXPECTATIONS. SO YOU'RE TALKING THEN, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT A POSITION LEVEL ACROSS THE BOARD? MEANING THAT IF I WORK AN EXTRA 20 HOURS A A WEEK, OKAY. EVERY WEEK WITHOUT FAIL, I AM GOING TO HAVE ADDITIONAL ABSENCES, WHETHER DUE TO MYSELF OR MY FAMILY MEMBERS. SO WHAT I'M ASKING IS THAT IF OUR MINIMUM STANDARD IS 80 TO 120 HOURS IS CONSIDERED MEETS EXPECTATIONS, EVEN THOUGH THE CITY SAYS AFTER 80 START ASKING QUESTIONS AND GIVE A A, A CORRECTIVE ACTION OR COUNSELING SESSION TO AN EMPLOYEE, IF IT'S A MEET EXPECTATIONS, WHY IS IT THAT YOUR POLICIES ARE CONTRADICTORY TO YOUR MINIMUM HERE? STANDARDS FOR EVERY EMPLOYEE WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT? SO IS THAT THE STANDARD FOR THE PERSONS ABOVE YOU OR IS THAT THE STA ACROSS THE BOARD. ACROSS THE BOARD, YEAH. I KEPT ACROSS THE BOARD WHEN I HEARD YOU SAY ACROSS THE BOARD, MEANING ALL LEVELS, MANAGEMENT, SUPERVISORY. EXACTLY. I GOT IT. FRONTLINE. YEAH. RIGHT. SO IN OTHER WORDS, YOU SAY YOU OUGHT TO BE IN THE BENEFIT LEVEL EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE NOT CONSIDERED A LEVEL, BUT YOU FEEL LIKE THAT YOU OUGHT TO BE NO, I'M OFFERED AN EXPLANATION TO HOW AN EMPLOYEE, WHEN IT CAME UP THAT THEY REACHED 145 HOURS OKAY. OF, OF ABSENCE TIME. SO EVEN IF THEY, WE'VE KNOWN THAT THEY, EVEN IF THEY PRO PRODUCED A DOCTOR'S NOTE MM-HMM . MAYBE THEY GOT SICK AND THEIR DOCTOR WROTE THEM OUT. OKAY. FIVE DAYS BECAUSE IT WAS SOMETHING CONTAGIOUS. OKAY. TWO INSTANCES OF THAT ALREADY PUT YOU AT THE THRESHOLD TO GET A CORRECTIVE ACTION. OKAY. EVERY OTHER INSTANCE OF OVERTIME THAT YOU MISSED. AS, AS LONG AS IT'S AT LEAST TWO, I'M NOW GOING TO GIVE YOU ANOTHER CORRECTIVE ACTION FOR OVERTIME. FOR OVERTIME AND ATTENDANCE BECAUSE IT'S ALL COUNTED TOGETHER. WE HAVE A VERY RESTRICTIVE ATTENDANCE POLICY. HMM. OKAY. OKAY. I THINK I, UH, I HAVE, UM, OUR ACTUAL ATTENDANCE POLICY BECAUSE WITHOUT READING IT, IT YOU, THE CONTEXT IS LOST. SO IF YOU'D LIKE TO SEE IT, I HAVE IT. SO YOU COULD UNDERSTAND THE AVERAGE CITY EMPLOYEE CAN MISS UP TO 80 HOURS WITHOUT RECEIVING A COMMUNICATION, WITHOUT RECEIVING A RE API D, WHICH WOULD BE THE FIRST RIGHT? IF WE HAVEN'T, IF IT'S, IF IT'S NOT SUSPICIOUS, WE WOULD JUST SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE REACHED THE MINIMUM THRESHOLD MM-HMM . FOR US TO START TALKING ABOUT WE MAY NEED ADDITIONAL DOCUMENTATION IN THE FUTURE. OKAY. SO WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT THE CITY'S PROCESS IS NOT BROKEN. THE APPLICATION OF HOW THE DEPARTMENTS INTERPRET IS WHAT'S BROKEN. AND WHEN AN EMPLOYEE COMES BEFORE A GRIEVANCE BOARD OR TO TRY TO SAVE THEIR JOB AT CIVIL SERVICE RIGHT. THEY HAVE A HARD TIME EXPLAINING LIKE, THE EXPECTATIONS FOR THIS IS UNREALISTIC, IT'S NOT SUSTAINABLE. OKAY. SO AND YOU IN THE UNION? YOU IN THE HOPE I AM. OKAY, I GOT IT. OKAY. THANK YOU. YEAH, I LIKE TO GET A COPY OF YEAH MA'AM, IF YOU COULD LEAVE THAT WITH YUKARI. YEAH. UM, I'D GREATLY APPRECIATE IT. COUNCILWOMAN ALCORN, THANK YOU , AND THANK YOU. I THINK YOU'RE DOING A GOOD JOB. AND I SEE, UM, DIRECTOR CHEEKS NODDING, UH, IT'S OBVIOUS YOU SOMEBODY WORKS, HAS TO WORK 80, I MEAN, KNOW A NORMAL WORK WEEK, 80 HOURS A WEEK, AND SOMEBODY ELSE HAS TO WORK 120 HOURS A WEEK, THAT IT SHOULD BE PRORATED SOMEHOW. [00:50:01] UH, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? THE CONTEXT? LIKE THE, THE AMOUNT OF, BECAUSE AGAIN, WHEN YOU, IT JUST MAKES SENSE BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT MORE HOURS, YOU SEE IT'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE THAT'S AN ASTRONOMICAL AMOUNT OF TIME TO USE. YOU CAN'T APPLY THE SAME RULES FOR LIKE SOMEBODY THAT JUST WORKS 80 TO SOMEBODY THAT'S REQUIRED TO WORK. RIGHT. BUT BECAUSE WE HAVE A, YOU KNOW, ONCE YOU REACH THE THRESHOLD AND WE, OUR POLICY GOES TO ONCE YOU REACH 120 HOURS, EVEN THOUGH THAT'S THE MINIMUM FOR PROBATIONARY PERIOD, YOU COULD BE TERMINATED IF, IF YOU GET TWO ADDITIONAL HOURS. SO YOU'VE WORKED ALL YEAR AND YOU GET TERMINATED, AND YET WE STAY IN A CONTINUOUS CYCLE OF TURNOVER AND ISSUES. NO, I THINK, I THINK WHAT YOU'RE SAYING MAKES A LOT SENSE BEING, AND YOU'RE GETTING SOME NODS FROM BACK HERE, SO HOPEFULLY SOMETHING CAN BE ADDRESSED TO, TO ADDRESS THAT. OKAY. SITUATION. I, I'VE GOT A COUPLE QUESTIONS I JUST WANNA CLARIFY. I THINK I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. UH, SO YOU'RE SCHEDULED A 12 HOUR SHIFT. YES. IS THAT CORRECT? YES. OKAY. IF, AND YOU'RE SCHEDULED FOR 60 HOURS A WEEK, FIVE SHIFTS A A WEEK, IS THAT CORRECT? YES. YES. OKAY. SO 60, THE EXPECTATION THERE USED TO BE A BUILT IN MECHANISM TO PREVENT YOU FROM WORKING EVERY DAY, BUT BECAUSE OF THE BUSINESS NEED IT HAS GONE TO, YOU ARE EXPECTED TO WORK EVERY DAY. SO ESSENTIALLY I ASSUME YOU'RE, YOU'RE UNDERSTAFFED. YES. OKAY. UM, WE ARE SEVERELY UNDERSTAFFED. AND IF YOU'RE ABLE, YOU'RE SAY YOU'RE SCHEDULE IS MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY, BUT ON WEDNESDAY YOU'RE ONLY ABLE TO WORK EIGHT HOURS BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT ABLE TO WORK THAT MANDATORY OVERTIME. YOU'RE DINGED FOR THAT YOU'RE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR, FOR THAT. CORRECT. OKAY. THAT, THAT DOES SEEM A BIT MUCH, YEAH. SO I, I MEAN, MY IDEA OF ABSENTEEISM IS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU SHOW UP FOR WORK AND SHOW UP FOR WORK ON TIME, RIGHT? YOU'RE NOT ABSENT. THIS IS YOUR, IF YOU'VE BEEN ABLE TO WORK EIGHT HOURS, I MEAN, I, I THINK FORCED OVER TIME IS ALREADY A BIT ONEROUS. SO, NO, I, I THINK YOU CERTAINLY DO HAVE A POINT. SO I, I APPRECIATE THAT. IF YOU CAN LEAVE THAT WITH YOU, KARI. SURE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. IS THERE ANY OTHER PUBLIC SPEAKERS? OKAY, UH, WITH THAT, UH, BEFORE WE ADJOURN, PLEASE MAKE NOTE THE NEXT REGULARLY SCHEDULED GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS COMMITTEE MEETING. WE'LL BE ON WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 7TH AT 2:00 PM WHERE WE WILL RECEIVE AN UPDATE ON THE SOLID WASTE KPIS. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.