* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [Houston Archaeological and Historical Commission on November 6, 2025.] [00:00:14] 33. UH, THURSDAY, THE 6TH OF NOVEMBER. UH, TODAY'S MEETING OF THE HOUSTON ARCHEOLOGICAL HISTORICAL COMMISSION, HAHC, IS CALLED TO ORDER. I'M COMMISSIONED CHAIR DAVID EK. UH, TO VERIFY WE HAVE A QUORUM, I'LL CALL THE ROLE THE CHAIR IS PRESENT. VICE CHAIR COSGROVE PRESENT. COMMISSIONER JONES. PRESENT. BLAKELY NOT HERE. COMMISSIONER CARL SMITH. HERE. MR. DEL IS, I BELIEVE ON HIS WAY AND IT'LL BE ARRIVING SHORTLY. MR. MARK SMITH. HERE. MR. BROWNING PRESENT. MR. HILL PRESENT. COMMISSIONER ESCOBAR. PRESENT. MR. BROBECK PRESENT. COMMISSIONER GARCIA PRESENT. COMMISSIONER DAVIS PRESENT. AND OUR SECRETARY AND DEPUTY DIRECTOR ROBERT WILLIAMSON. PRESENT. THANK YOU, COMMERS. WE HAVE A QUORUM. UM, AT THIS TIME, I WILL OPEN UP WITH THE CHAIR'S REPORT, UM, AND I'LL JUST BRIEFLY GO OVER THE SPEAKER RULES. UM, THIS MEETING CAN BE VIEWED ON HTV, ALTHOUGH VIRTUAL PARTICIPATION OPTIONS ARE NOT AVAILABLE. MEETINGS START ABOUT A MINUTE OR SO AFTER THE SCHEDULED TIME TO ALLOW THE HTV BROADCAST TO GO LIVE. SPEAKERS, IF YOU WISH TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION ON AN ITEM, PLEASE FILL OUT THE SPEAKER'S FORM BEFORE, UM, BEFORE THE ITEM IS CALLED AND TURN IT INTO STAFF NEAR THE FRONT DOOR. SPEAKER RULES ARE FOUND ON THE TOP PORTION OF THE SPEAKER SIGN IN FORM. ATTACH TO THE AGENDA. COUNCIL MEMBERS, UH, SPEAKING ON AN ITEM, UH, IS NOT TIMED, BUT APPLICANTS HAVE THEIR ALLOTTED TWO MINUTES TIME AS WELL AS REBUTTALS, NOT APPLICANTS AND GENERAL SPEAKERS ARE ALLOWED TWO MINUTES OF TIME. THERE'S NOT AN OPTION FOR A REBUTTAL. EVEN IF YOU DID NOT USE YOUR FULL TWO MINUTES, YOU WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO SPEAK AGAIN, THE TIME CANNOT BE ALLOCATED TO ANOTHER SPEAKER. UM, AT THIS MEETING, APPLICANTS MAY OPEN AND SPEAK FOR THREE MINUTES. YOU MAY ALSO BE RECOGNIZED TO CLOSE WITH ADDITIONAL TWO MINUTES REBUTTAL. UM, AND I MAY CALL ON YOU FOR ADDITIONAL TIME TO ANSWER QUESTIONS FROM COMMISSION MEMBERS. AGAIN, OTHER PUBLIC SPEAKERS MAY SPEAK ONE TIME UP TO TWO MINUTES WHEN I RECOGNIZE YOU TO SPEAK. UM, AND WITH THAT, I WILL, UM, OPEN UP FOR THE DIRECTOR'S REPORT. GOOD AFTERNOON, CHAIR HICK, UH, COMMISSIONERS AND MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC. I'M ROBERT WILLIAMSON, ACTING SECRETARY OF THIS COMMISSION, AND DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF THE PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT FOR MY REPORT TODAY. I'VE GOT JUST A FEW SHORT ANNOUNCEMENTS. FIRST, I'D LIKE TO ANNOUNCE THAT YASMIN SSON HAS BEEN APPOINTED AS INTERIM HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICER FOR THE CITY OF HOUSTON. MS. ARSON EARNED A DEGREE IN ARCHITECTURAL ENGINEERING FROM ALEPPO UNIVERSITY IN 2008 AND HAS SERVED IN HER HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICE SINCE JOINING THE CITY OVER SIX YEARS AGO. WE WOULD'VE MADE THIS ANNOUNCEMENT LAST MONTH. MS. HOREN WAS OVERSEAS ON VACATION, AND I WANTED TO WAIT UNTIL SHE WAS BACK. SO I'VE GOTTA DO THIS IN PERSON. CONGRATULATIONS. SECOND, THIS YEAR'S HOUSTON LANDMARK DESIGNATIONS AND HISTORIC DISTRICT RECLASSIFICATIONS WILL BE BROUGHT BEFORE CITY COUNCIL ON DECEMBER 3RD FOR CONSIDERATION AND PUBLIC COMMENT. AND THEN LASTLY, WE HAVE COMPLETED A FINAL DRAFT OF THE NOR HILL DESIGN GUIDELINES AND OF SCHEDULED A FINAL PUBLIC HEARING WITH THE NOR HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT NEXT WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 12TH AT 6:00 PM AT THE MONTE BEACH COMMUNITY CENTER. ONCE WE RECEIVE FINAL COMMENTS FROM NOR HILL, THOSE GUIDELINES WILL BE BROUGHT BEFORE THIS BODY FOR REVIEW, WHICH WILL MOST LIKELY BE IN JANUARY. AND A DRAFT COPY OF THOSE, UM, GUIDELINES ARE AVAILABLE ON OUR WEBSITE. IN CLOSING, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, YOU CAN CALL THE HOUSTON OFFICE OF PRESERVATION HOTLINE AT 8 3 2 3 9 3 6 5 5 6 OR VISIT OUR WEBSITE@HOUSTONPLANNING.COM. THIS CONCLUDES MY REPORT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. UH, WE DO NOT HAVE A MAYOR'S LIAISON REPORT TODAY, SO WE'LL MOVE ON TO CONSIDERATION OF THE OCTOBER 9TH, 2025 HAHC MEETING, MINUTES COMMISSION MEMBERS, IF YOU, UM, HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THE MINUTES. UM, ARE THERE ANY COMMENTS ON THE MINUTES? AND IF NOT, IS THERE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES? SO MOVED. OKAY. COMMISSIONER BROBECK MAKES THE MOTION AND SECONDED. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? [00:05:01] ANY ABSTENTIONS WHO WAS SECOND COMMISSIONER? UM, HILL. HILL? YES. COMMISSIONER HILL AND COMMISSIONER, UM, ELL IS NOW IN THE ROOM, AND WITH THAT WE'LL MOVE ON, UM, TO ITEM A, WHICH IS A PUBLIC HEARING IN CONSIDERATION OF AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON THE PROPOSED 2016 HAHC MEETING SCHEDULE. I DON'T KNOW IF STAFF, WILL YOU MAKE A PRESENTATION ABOUT THIS? I MEAN, I KNOW WE'RE NOT GONNA READ OUT THE DATES, UM, FROM THE PODIUM, BUT, UM, GOOD AFTERNOON, STAFF MEMBER YASMIN ARSLAN. UM, THERE'S NO PRESENTATION. THESE ARE JUST ACCORDING TO THE AVAILABILITY OF, UH, CITY HALL ANNEX AND PLANNING COMMISSION. WE, WE DIDN'T HAVE, THERE WEREN'T A LOT OF OPTIONS TO PICK, BUT, SO THAT'S, THOSE ARE THE DATES. UM, IF YOU, IF ANYBODY HAS ANY OBJECTION, LET US KNOW. IF, IF NOT, THEN UM, THERE, THERE'S NO PRESENTATION. OKAY. BUT WE CAN PROCEED ON TO VOTE. YES, PLEASE. YES. THANK YOU. SO, UM, WITH THAT AND COMMISSION MEMBERS, IF, IF YOU'VE HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THE PROPOSED TIMES AND SO FORTH, IS THERE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE PROPOSED CALENDAR? SO MOVED. COSGROVE MAKES THE MOTION. IS THERE SECOND COMM CHAIR JONES SECONDS. THANK YOU. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTIONS. CALENDAR IS PASSED AND WE WILL NOW MOVE ON TO ITEM B, CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON THE FOLLOWING APPLICATIONS, UH, FOR CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS. UM, AND AGAIN, ONE OR MORE OF THESE ITEMS MAY BE TAKEN ON ONE MOTION AS A CONSENT, UH, AGENDA, TERRANCE? UM, LET US KNOW WHAT YOUR LIST IS. YES, I SURE DO. UH, SKIP MY AFFAIRS IN ORDER HERE. GOOD AFTERNOON, CHAIR COMMISSIONERS AND THE PUBLIC. I'M STAFF MEMBER TERRENCE JACKSON. TODAY, STAFF RECOMMENDS THE FOLLOWING ITEMS FOR ACTION PER STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS IN ONE MOTION. ITEMS B 1 9 0 2 WEST COTTAGE ALTERATION, ADDITION OF A CARPORT IN THE NOR HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT. RECOMMENDATION APPROVAL ITEM B 3 1 1 3 8 FUGATE STREET, NEW CONSTRUCTION OF A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE IN THE NOR HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT. RECOMMENDATION, APPROVAL WITH CONDITIONS. ITEM B 4 1 1 3 8 FUGATE STREET, NEW CONSTRUCTION OF A GARAGE OR A CARPORT IN THE NOR HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT. RECOMMENDATION, APPROVAL ITEM B 6 1 2 0 8 COURTLAND STREET, ALTERATION OF SIDING AND TRIM IN THE HOUSTON HEIGHTS EATS HISTORIC DISTRICT DENIAL OF A COA AND ISSUANCE OF A COR ITEM B 7 1 0 3 2 KEY STREET, NEW CONSTRUCTION OF A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE IN THE NOR HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT. RECOMMENDATION, APPROVAL ITEM 4 6 0 5 NOR HILL BOULEVARD, THE ALTERATION OF A PORCH OR BALCONY AND WINDOWS IN THE NOR HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT. RECOMMENDATION. APPROVAL ITEM B 9 4 3 0 WOODLAND STREET, ALTERATION OF DOORS IN THE WOODLAND HEIGHTS HISTORIC DISTRICT DEFERRED BY OWNER ITEM B 10 N 2 1 9 EMERSON STREET, ALTERATION OF WINDOWS AND DOORS IN THE WESTMORELAND HISTORIC DISTRICT DEFERRAL BY OWNER AND ITEM B 11 9 0 9 FRANKLIN STREET, ALTERATION OF AWNING OR CANOPY IN THE MAIN STREET MARKET SQUARE. RECOMMENDATION APPROVAL, THE PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT REQUEST APPROVAL OF ALL STAFF RECOMMENDATION FOR THESE PROCEEDING ITEMS, ITEMS PROPOSED FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION, THEREFORE ARE ITEMS B TWO AND B FIVE. WE ARE HERE FOR ANY QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU TERRANCE COMMISSION MEMBERS, ARE THERE ANY PROJECTS YOU'D LIKE TO PULL FROM THIS PROPOSED CONSENT AGENDA FOR INDIVIDUAL DISCUSSION? COMMISSIONER DAVIS? 1208 COURTLAND. IS THAT, UM, CAN WE PULL THAT? WE YES WE CAN. YEAH. ARE THERE ANY OTHER PROJECTS ON COMMISSION THAT YOU'D LIKE TO PULL? I DO HAVE A, UM, I'LL OPEN UP TO THE, UM, THE PUBLIC FORUM. I DO HAVE A COUPLE SPEAKERS SIGNED UP FOR, UM, ITEMS [00:10:01] THREE AND FOUR ESPECIALLY. UM, I THINK WE NEED TO PULL THREE AND FOUR. UM, YES. OKAY. SO WE WILL, SO I'M GONNA, JUST FOR A MOMENT, I'M GONNA READ THE REMAINING LIST THAT I HAVE CURRENTLY. I'VE GOT ITEM 1, 7, 8, 9, 10, AND 11. THAT'S CORRECT. AND SO IF YOU ARE HERE FOR, UH, ITEMS 1, 7, 8, 9, 10, OR 11, AND YOU SUPPORT THE RECOMMENDATION FROM STAFF, THERE'S NO NEED, UM, TO PULL THIS FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION, THAT PROPOSED, UH, RECOMMENDATION IS LIKELY TO PASS IN THE NEXT FEW MINUTES. SO WITH IT, I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. UM, IS THERE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE REVISED CONSENT AGENDA LIST OF ITEMS 1, 7, 8, 9, 10, AND 11 AND THE PROPOSED RECOMMENDATIONS BY STAFF? SO MOVED. BECK. I HAVE MOTIONS THERE. SECOND. SECOND. C SMITH. OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTIONS? THAT MOTION PASSES AND WE WILL MOVE ON TO ITEM TWO. GOOD AFTERNOON, CHAIRPERSON AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION. THIS IS STAFF PERSON SAMANTHA DELEON. I SUBMIT ITEM B TWO AT 29 0 3 HOUSTON AVENUE IN THE GERMANTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION. THE 1,920 SQUARE FOOT TWO, UH, SQUARE FOOT TWO STORY CONTRIBUTING BUNGALOW STYLE PROPERTY WAS BUILT CIRCA 1905, SITUATED ON A 6,000 SQUARE FOOT CORNER LOT. THE APPLICANT APPLIED FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS ON AUGUST 19TH, 2025 FOR A NEW CONSTRUCTION OF A 760 SQUARE FOOT TWO STORY GARAGE AND GARAGE APARTMENT ON OCTOBER 8TH, 2025. THE APPLICANT DEFERRED HIS NO HIS APPLICATION TO NOVEMBER. THE APPLICATION RECEIVED ONE LETTER OF SUPPORT. SEE ATTACHMENT B IN THE REPORT. STAFF RECOMMENDS DENIAL AS THE SCOPE OF WORK DOES NOT SATISFY CRITERIA TWO AND FOR AND DOES NOT MEET THE GERMANTOWN DESIGN GUIDELINES CHAIR AND MEMBER OF THE COMMISSION. THE MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION, THE OWNER IS NOT HERE, BUT THE AGENT IS. I AM ALSO AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS. THIS CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION. THANK YOU. AT THIS TIME, I'LL GO AHEAD AND OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. AS WAS MENTIONED, I DO HAVE A SPEAKER SIGNED UP SPEAK ON THIS ITEM. AND THAT IS, UM, CIO UH, PITA. IF YOU COULD ADDRESS, UH, THE COMMISSION AND RESTATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD IN THE MICROPHONE FOR THE RECORDING. GOOD AFTERNOON, GENTLEMEN. MY NAME IS ALICIA O PETA AND I AM THE DESIGNER AND CONTRACTOR OF THE PROPOSED PROJECT. I SIGNED UP FOR ANY QUESTIONS YOU GUYS MIGHT HAVE. UH, I THINK THE DRAWINGS, THE DRAWINGS HAVE BEEN REVISED TO MEET SOME OF THE COMMENTS THEY MADE, INCLUDING THE PITCH, INCLUDING THE HEIGHT LIMITATION TO MATCH THE EXISTING RESIDENCE. WE WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE AT THAT HEIGHT OR A LITTLE BELOW THE HEIGHT AND THE PITCH AND THE, UH, BALCONY. WE TRY TO MIMIC SOME, UH, PROXIMITY TO SOME OF THE PROJECTS THAT ARE AROUND THERE. AND THE WINDOWS. UH, AS FAR AS THE DOORS, WE, UH, ARE GONNA TRY TO USE A VERY SIMILAR PRODUCT TO WHAT WE COULD FIND TO THAT TIME. SO IF YOU GUYS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, UH, WE CAN DEFINITELY ANSWER THEM. OKAY, THANK YOU. THERE MAY BE QUESTIONS IN A, IN A MOMENT, BUT YOU CAN SIT DOWN. THANK YOU. IS THERE ANYONE ELSE IN THE AUDIENCE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM THAT HAS NOT SIGNED UP TO SPEAK CURRENTLY? SO, NOT HEARING THAT, I'M GONNA, UH, COME BACK TO THE COMMISSION. AND, UH, SAMANTHA, COULD YOU RESTATE THE, THE MAIN ISSUES, UM, FOR THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION? YES, SIR. ON PAGE EIGHT OF MY REPORT, I INCLUDED, UH, THE CONTEXT AREA OF ALL OF THE TWO STORY CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES LOCATED IN THE GERMANTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT. I WENT EARLIER THIS WEEK AND TOOK PHOTOS, UH, MYSELF AND FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION. THE, UH, PROPOSAL HAS TO, I GUESS BE, UM, HAS TO BE IN ALIGNMENT WITH, UH, THE CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES IN THE AREA. STAFF FELT THAT THE LONG BALCONY AS WELL AS ALL OF THE WINDOWS, WAS NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF THE GERMANTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT, AS WE CAN SEE FROM ALL OF THE OTHER TWO STORY STRUCTURES. [00:15:01] ADDITIONALLY, I ALSO WENT AHEAD AND INCLUDED ALL OF THE TWO STORY GARAGES THAT I COULD FIND IN GERMANTOWN. UH, THE GERMANTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT DOES NOT HAVE ANY CONTRIBUTING GARAGES, SO THEY'RE ALL NON-CONTRIBUTING. BUT I THOUGHT IT WAS HELPFUL IN TERMS OF, UH, CONTEXT TO KIND OF HAVE THAT INFORMATION. THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT WOULD DEVIATE FROM ALL OF THE OTHER CONTRIBUTING HOMES AS WELL AS GARAGES IN GERMANTOWN, WHICH IS WHY STAFF FELT THAT THIS WAS A DENIAL. OKAY, THANK YOU. COMMISSION MEMBERS. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THIS APPLICATION, FOR STAFF? THOSE PICTURES YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT? I DON'T SEE THOSE ADDITIONAL PICTURES IN HERE. IF YOU GO TO PAGE EIGHT, SO KARA HAS, UH, I BELIEVE THE FIRST PAGE, BUT IF YOU SCROLL TO PAGE EIGHT AT THE BOTTOM, IT'S GONNA SAY CONTEXT AREA OF TWO STORY CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES. I GO STREET BY STREET. OKAY. I'M SORRY. YES, MA'AM, I GOT IT. IT'S OKAY. BUT JUST TURN YOUR MICROPHONE ON. YEAH, I HAVE A COMMENT, BUT NOT A QUESTION. UH, I DROVE BY THIS PROPERTY AT UH, TWO AT, UM, 29 0 3 HOUSTON AVENUE. AND I, I, I SORT OF HAVE TO AGREE WITH WENDY PARKER'S LETTER AT THE END OF THIS, THAT ALTHOUGH GERMANTOWN DOES EXTEND WEST OF HOUSTON AVENUE, THE CONTEXT AREA WEST OF HOUSTON AVENUE IS VERY MUCH A WOODLANDS, WOODLAND HEIGHTS LANDSCAPE. AND I THINK THIS GARAGE, THE BODY OF IT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME OTHER ISSUES, BUT I THINK THAT THE, I THINK THE BODY OF IT, THE MASS, THE SCALE IS, I FEEL IT'S APPROPRIATE FOR SOMETHING ON THE WEST END OF, UM, HOUSTON AVENUE. YEAH. STAFF PERSON, SAMANTHA DELEONE. OH, I'M SORRY. UM, WE DID RECEIVE THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT LETTER OF COURSE LAST MONTH AND I DID EMAIL BACK STATING THAT THE, UM, THE ADDRESSES AND PROPERTIES THAT SHE INCLUDED IN THE LETTER ARE A PART OF THE WOODLAND HEIGHTS, WHICH IS NOT A PART OF GERMANTOWN. SO IN TERMS OF CRITERIA, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE CURRENT HISTORIC DISTRICT THAT THE PROPERTY IS LOCATED IN AND NOT SURROUNDING COMMISSIONER DEL. UM, SO I'M, I'M UNCLEAR ON THIS ONE. I DID THE SAME THING. THIS, THIS, UM, PROJECT IS ABOUT HALF A MILE FROM MY OFFICE. SO, UM, IF I'M UNDERSTANDING CORRECTLY, THE MASSING THE SIZE, THE ROOF PITCH, I, I'M, I'M SEEING VINYL WINDOWS AND, BUT, BUT THEN I HEARD THAT THEY'VE BEEN REVISED. LIKE ARE WE EVALUATING IT ON WHAT IS DRAWN HERE TODAY OR HAVE THOSE PARTICULAR MATERIALS BEEN ADJUSTED FOR YET? SO IN THE ORIGINAL APPLICATION THAT THEY SUBMITTED BACK IN OCTOBER, THEY ORIGINALLY HAD ALUMINUM WINDOWS. ONCE THEY GOT FEEDBACK FROM THE CIVIC ASSOCIATION, THEY MADE CHANGES AND THEY MAY CHA AND THEY DECIDED TO GO WITH FINAL WINDOWS, WHICH AGAIN WOULD NOT BE COMPATIBLE WITH ANYTHING IN THE GERMANTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT. SO FOR CLARIFICATION, WHAT'S BEING PRESENTED TODAY IS A STRUCTURE WITH VINYL WINDOWS, CORRECT? WE CAN SEE ON PAGE, GIMME ONE MOMENT. YEAH. ON PAGE 27 OF 32 THAT I, I INCLUDED THE MOST RECENT WINDOW SCHEDULE THAT WAS INCLUDED WITH ALL OF THE DRAWINGS, WHICH STATES THAT THEY ARE PLANNING ON USING VINYL WINDOWS. AND THE ISSUE WITH THE VINYL WINDOWS IS NOT NECESSARILY MATERIAL IS MADE OUT OF, BUT IT'S THE INSET BEING INSET AND RECESSED FOR THE LOWER SASH MEMBER. IS MY UNDERSTANDING NOT AVAILABLE IN THIS TYPE OF WINDOW. CORRECT? YES, SIR. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OF STAFF ON THIS ITEM? IS THERE A MOTION TO BRING TO THE FLOOR OR, OR BROWNING? I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE STAFF FOR RECOMMENDATION. OKAY. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. I SECOND. BECK, BOTH. COMMISSIONER HILL SECONDS. UH, I'LL ASK JUST FOR ANY FINAL DISCUSSION BEFORE WE VOTE. COMMISSIONER SIDE. I THINK YOU, YEAH, I JUST NEED, UH, SO, SO IN CONSIDERING THE VOTE TODAY, WE'VE GOT NON-COMPLIANT WINDOWS PRESENTED, CORRECT? CORRECT, YES SIR. MM-HMM . UM, ANY OTHER SPECIFIC COMPLIANCE ISSUES CONCERNING MASSING SIZE LOCATION [00:20:03] RIGHT NOW? YES SIR. SO WITH THE DRAWINGS THAT IS CURRENTLY PRESENTED, WE FELT THAT THE, THERE WAS NOT ANOTHER CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE IN GERMANTOWN THAT WAS THIS NARROW 'CAUSE WE HAVE TO LOOK AT CONTRIBUTING TWO STORY STRUCTURES IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. AS WE CAN SEE WITH ALL OF THE RESEARCH THAT I PRESENTED IN MY REPORT, THERE ARE NOT ANY OTHER NARROW HOUSES LIKE THAT IN GERMANTOWN. SO THAT WAS ONE. TWO WERE THE WINDOWS THREE WAS THE LONG BALCONY THAT IS VERY VISIBLE FROM THE STREET AS THIS IS A CORNER LOT YOU, ANY OTHER COMMENTS YOU WANNA MAKE OR BEFORE WE VOTE OR NO? OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION? AYE. AYE AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTIONS? OKAY, THE MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. WE'LL MOVE ON TO ITEM THREE. CAN, CAN WE CONSIDER IT THREE AND FOUR TOGETHER? CERTAINLY TERRANCE MAY. IS IT POSSIBLE TO PRESENT ITEM THREE AND FOUR TOGETHER AND WE, AND WE CAN TAKE ACTION SEPARATELY ON THE, ON THE, YES. THAT'S, THAT IS THE PLAN. I DO HAVE GOOD NEWS AND BAD NEWS. GOOD NEWS IS YOU GOT ME FOR THE REST OF THE DAY. BAD NEWS IS YOU GOT ME FOR THE REST OF THE DAY. OKAY. SO WHAT I'LL DO IS I'LL READ ITEM THREE AND THEN I'LL READ ITEM FOUR AND THEN I GUESS WE CAN OPEN IT UP FOR DISCUSSION. GOOD AFTERNOON CHAIR MEMBERS OF HHC. THIS IS STAFF PERSON TERRENCE JACKSON, AND I SUBMIT TO YOU ITEM B THREE AT 1138 WESTGATE. THE PROP, THE PROPERTY PREVIOUSLY INCLUDED CONCLUDED A CONTRIBUTING 1,216 SQUARE FOOT, ONE STORY WOOD FRAME HOME BUILT CIRCA 1925 WITH A DETACHED GARAGE SITUATED ON THE 5,000 SQUARE FOOT CORNER LOT. THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE NO LONGER REMAINS IN THE ONLY THING EXISTING AS THE FOUNDATION. THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING TO CONSTRUCT A TWO STORY HOME TO BE CONSTRUCTED WITH A 1500 SQUARE FOOT FIRST FLOOR AND A 775 SQUARE FOOT SECOND FLOOR, BRINGING A LIVABLE SQUARE FOOTAGE TO 2,275 SQUARE FEET. THEY'RE PROPOSING TO CONSTRUCT A TWO STORY GARAGE, WHICH IS, WHICH WILL BE INCLUDED IN THIS APPLICATION. AND SHOWN FOR REFERENCE ON, UH, THIS CURRENT APPLICATION INCLUDE A MAX RIDGE HEIGHT OF 28 FEET, 10 INCHES WITH A 23 FEET THREE INCH TOP PLATE HEIGHT. THE FIRST FLOOR CEILING WILL BE NINE FOOT, AND THE SECOND FLOOR CEILING WILL ALSO BE NINE FEET. THEY PROPOSED TO CONSTRUCT THE, UH, CONSTRUCT THE, UH, NEW CONSTRUCTION WITH INSET AND RECESS WINDOWS. THE HOME WILL BE CLADED WITH SMOOTH CEMENTENTIOUS SIDING AND INCLUDE A 15 FOOT SEVEN INCH BY NINE FOOT 10 INCH REAR PORCH. IT IS TO BE CONSTRUCTED WITH A FOUR FOOT REAR SETBACK AT THE GARAGE, A 14 FOOT SIDE SETBACK AT STU WOOD AND A FIVE FOOT SET SIDE SETBACK TO THEIR NEIGHBOR FROM THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTY. THEY WILL CONSTRUCT A HOME WITH A FOUR OVER 12 AND A SIX OVER 12 ROOF PITCH. IT IS TO BE CONSTRUCTED WITH A UNCONDITION WALKWAY TO THE GARAGE AT THE SECOND FLOOR WITH CASEMENT UH, WINDOWS. THE APPLICANT HAS WORKED WITH STAFF TO PROPOSE AND DEVELOP A DESIGN THAT THEY ARE HAPPY AND COMFORTABLE WITH. STAFF BELIEVES THAT THE PROPOSED DESIGN IS MORE IN LINE WITH WHAT HAS BEEN APPROVED BY THE HHC IN NOR HILL STAFF ALSO FEELS THAT THE PROPOSED DESIGN IS MORE IN LINE WITH THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED ALTERATION EDITION APPROVED BY HHC IN MARCH OF THIS YEAR. THE PREVIOUS DESIGNS PROPOSED, THE PREVIOUS DESIGNS PROPOSED A HOME WITH A MORE SIGNIF SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF SQUARE FOOTAGE THAN PROPOSED IN THE DESIGN FOR MARCH. AND THIS MONTH, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL WITH CONDITIONS THAT THE PROPOSED WALKWAY HAVE A TALLER CASEMENT OR FIXED WINDOW FLOOR TO CEILING HEIGHT IF POSSIBLE. I SUBMIT TO YOU ITEM B FOUR. THE PROPERTY PREVIOUSLY INCLUDED A CONTRIBUTING, UH, YOU'VE ALREADY HEARD ALL OF THAT. THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING TO CONSTRUCT A TWO STORY, TWO CAR GARAGE WITH THE, WITH LIVING SPACE OVER THE GARAGE. THE FIRST FLOOR WILL BE 520 SQUARE FEET AND A 560 SQUARE FOOT. SECOND STORY, WITH THE 52 SQUARE FOOT BALCONY FACING STU WOOD, THE ROOF WILL BE CONSTRUCTED WITH COMPOSITION SHINGLES, EXCUSE ME, WITH A SIX OVER 12 ROOF [00:25:01] PITCH TO BE CLAD WITH SMOOTH CEMENTITIOUS SIDING WITH A 24 9 UH, MAX RIDGE HEIGHT AND A 18 FEET EIGHT INCH MAX EVE HEIGHT TO HAVE ONE OVER ONE WOOD WINDOWS AND NINE FOOT PLATE HEIGHTS FOR THE FIRST AND SECOND FLOOR. THE GARAGE WILL HAVE A TRANSPARENT WALKWAY TO ACCESS THE SECOND FLOOR. THE WALKWAY WILL BE VIRTUALLY TRANSPARENT DUE TO THE FACT THAT IT WILL BE CLAD WITH CASEMENT OR FIXED WINDOWS ON BOTH SIDES. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE PROPOSED TWO-STORY GARAGE CHAIR AND MEMBERS OF THE HHC. I'M AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS AND THIS CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION. THANK YOU TERRANCE. UM, I DO HAVE A NUMBER OF SPEAKERS SIGN UP FOR THIS ITEM, SO I'M GONNA OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AT THIS TIME. AND, UM, AND THE FIRST SPEAKER WHO HAS SIGNED UP IS THE APPLICANT, UH, WHICH IS KEVIN SIMMONS. UM, HE'S JUST AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS IF ANYONE HAS ANY. OKAY, WELL I'M GOING TO, WE WILL HOLD THAT. AND THEN, UH, THE NEXT SPEAKER THAT SIGNED UP, UM, IS VIOLA TORGERSON. YOU RESTATE YOUR NAME WITH THE MICROPHONE, MAKE SURE YOU WERE, YOU WERE VERY CLOSE. IT'S VLA AND TORGERSON. THANK YOU FOR READING ALL NINE LETTERS. I APPRECIATE THAT. UM, SO FORGIVE ME, I HAVE A COUGH DROP 'CAUSE I'M ALLERGIC TO HOUSTON. UM, SO I'M HERE TO SPEAK ABOUT 1138 FUGATE. I AM A 21 YEAR RESIDENT OF THE NORTH NOR HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT. A COMMUNITY THAT MY FAMILY CHOSE BECAUSE OF ITS HISTORIC PROTECTIONS. UM, HERE IN OUR 1400 SQUARE FOOT HOME, WE'VE RAISED TWO SONS, ONE IN HIGH SCHOOL, ONE NOW IN COLLEGE. AND, UH, THE LAST TIME I WAS HERE, UH, IN FRONT OF THIS COMMISSION, IT WAS DIFFERENT PEOPLE. BUT, UM, WE WERE HERE TO DISCUSS THE, UH, 26 RENO, UH, 2016 RENOVATION OF OUR OWN HOME WHERE WE ACTUALLY DID SOMETHING UNHEARD OF IN HOUSTON AND MADE OUR HOMES SMALLER, TAKING OFF A BAD SECOND STORY ADDITION, UH, THAT WE WAS ON WHEN WE PURCHASED OUR HOUSE. AND RETURNING PRIVACY TO PEDRO EUNICE ON OUR SOUTH, STEVE ON OUR NORTH, AND KATHLEEN BEHIND US, UM, SO THAT WE ARE NO LONGER PEERING FROM THE UPSTAIRS INTO THEIR YARDS. UM, THIS PROJECT ON FUGATE TO ME SEEMS LIKE KIND OF A WHOLE BAIT AND SWITCH BY AN INVESTOR OR FLIPPER, NOT SOMEBODY WHO'S GOING TO BE LIVING IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, I FEEL LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO WANNA FLIP HOUSES SEE MY COMMUNITY AS A GOLDEN GOOSE, AND THEY SEE THIS HOUSE AS THEIR GOLDEN EGG. UM, THERE WAS AN EXISTING CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE ON THE LOT, WHICH THEY, UM, DID AWAY WITH, EITHER THROUGH KIND OF AN EXPEDITED, UH, DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT OR JUST A COMPLETE AND UTTER DISREGARD FOR THE PROCESS AND THE RULES THAT ALL OF US WHO LIVE IN NOR HILL FOLLOW WHEN IT COMES TO RENOVATING OUR HOMES. UM, THEY, UH, EITHER WAY, IT SEEMS LIKE WITH THESE PLANS, THEIR INTENT HAS BEEN TO CIRCUMVENT THE PROCESS THAT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO GO THROUGH AND, UM, AND SHOW COMPLETE AND UTTER DISREGARD FOR OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. NEXT SPEAKER WHO HAS SIGNED UP IS DWAYNE BRADLEY. HI Y'ALL. I'M DWAYNE BRADLEY. I AM A 35 YEAR RESIDENT OF THE HEIGHTS AND A 25 YEAR HOMEOWNER IN THE NOR HILL NEIGHBORHOOD. UH, MY WIFE AND I LIVE ON A SMALL BLOCK CALLED PINE RIDGE. IT'S THREE ONE BLOCK SEGMENTS. ONE IS THE SIDE OF HOG MIDDLE SCHOOL, ONE IS OUR BLOCK BETWEEN TEMPLE AND MELWOOD, AND THE OTHER IS JUST NORTH OF 14TH STREET. WE CONSIDER OUR BLOCK IN THE MIDDLE TO BE THE SINGLE BEST LITTLE BLOCK IN THE CITY OF HOUSTON BECAUSE EVERYONE KNOWS EVERYONE. WE, UH, LOOK OUT FOR EACH OTHER. VLA ACTUALLY LIVES DOWN THE STREET FROM US. AND, UH, AND IT'S A WONDERFUL EXAMPLE OF WHAT THIS HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD THAT WE BOUGHT INTO IN 2000, UH, WAS, IS AND SHOULD BE. AND WHEN I LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED AT THE CORNER OF, UH, FUGATE AND STUDIO WOOD AND LOOK AT THIS PLAN FOR WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED TO TAKE THE PLACE OF A, A REALLY NICE BRICK CLAD ONE STORY BUNGALOW WITH GARAGE, UH, THIS TWENTY TWO HUNDRED AND SEVENTY FIVE, UH, SQUARE FOOT BEHEMOTH IS TO ME THE EQUIVALENT OF THE CLICHE OF THE CAMEL'S NOSE UNDER THE TENT. AND I DON'T WANT MY NEIGHBORHOOD GOING THE WAY OF THE WOODLAND HEIGHTS AND OTHER PARTS OF THE HEIGHTS THAT HAVE HAD MONSTROUS PR PROJECTS PUT INTO THIS BEAUTIFUL [00:30:01] QUAINT BUNGALOW NEIGHBORHOOD THAT IS A HISTORIC DISTRICT THAT IS THE FIRST HISTORIC DISTRICT. THE MASS IS WAY OFF, THE SCALE IS WAY OFF. I THINK THAT WAS INAPPROPRIATELY SNUCK THROUGH WHATEVER PROCESS NEEDS TO BE TAKEN. AND I AM HEARTILY IN OPPOSITION TO IT. AND, UM, THAT'S MY BIT FOR NOW AND I'M OPEN TO ANY QUESTIONS. OKAY, THANK YOU. OKAY, THE NEXT SPEAKER WHO IS SIGNED UP IS LAWRENCE FIBO. UH, THANK YOU. MY NAME IS LAWRENCE FIBO. I LIVE AT, UH, 9 2 7 WEST COTTAGE AND I AM OPPOSED TO THE PLANS. UM, SO WE'VE REVIEWED THIS A FEW TIMES AND I THINK THERE ARE SOME SPECIFIC THINGS THAT YOU ALL CAN DO, UM, THAT CAN, I THINK, BENEFIT BOTH PARTIES. UM, ONE IS THE OVERALL MASSING OF THE HOUSE WITH A 28 FOOT, UH, HIGH RIDGE LINE WITH A, A SMALLER SIZE TRUSS THAT COULD BE LOWERED DOWN TO 26 FEET. SO I THINK WE COULD ACHIEVE SOMETHING THERE. UM, SECONDLY, THE TWO STORY GARAGE APARTMENT, WHICH IS ATTACHED TO THE HOUSE GARAGES ARE DETACHED FROM HOMES. THAT IS A COMPATIBLE THING IN NOR HILL. AND TWO STORY GARAGE APARTMENTS ARE NOT ALLOWED IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD AS PER OUR DEED RESTRICTIONS. AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE WILL HOPEFULLY GET WITHIN OUR DESIGN GUIDELINES GOING FORWARD. BUT WE, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T FIND THAT TO BE A COMPATIBLE FEATURE TO THIS PROJECT. UM, FINALLY WE ASK THAT WE GO BACK AND REVISIT THE PLANS THAT WERE SUBMITTED ON JUNE 12TH, WHICH I THINK WOULD PROBABLY MAKE EVERYBODY HAPPY. UM, THE NEIGHBORS BEHIND AT 1141 MESSED WEST MELWOOD AND THE, UH, ADJACENT NAME BIRD 1136 FUGATE ARE BOTH OPPOSED TO THIS BECAUSE OF OVERALL SIZE AND, UH, INFRINGING ON THEIR PRIVACY. SO THERE ARE A NUMBER OF REASONS WHY I THINK YOU WOULD REJECT THESE PLANS AS SUBMITTED. AND FINALLY, 10 32 KEY IS A GOOD EXAMPLE. IT'S IN YOUR PACKET TODAY OF WHAT A VERY MODERN FOUR BEDROOM, FOUR BATH CAN LOOK LIKE AND STILL STAY WITHIN THE GUIDELINES THAT WE HAVE IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND ALSO, UM, APPROPRIATE HISTORICAL SCALE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THE NEXT SPEAKER WE HAVE SIGNED UP IS BRIAN WILSON. GOOD AFTERNOON. UM, HHC MEMBERS, UH, WE'RE HERE AGAIN TO TALK ABOUT THIS. THE SAME HOUSE, UM, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT SEVERAL TIMES. UM, I GUESS YOU HAVE THE LETTER THERE THAT I WROTE. UM, IT'S PRETTY MUCH THE SAME, THE SAME. IT'S A PRETTY SIMILAR PROJECT AS PROPOSED IN THE PREVIOUS, UH, SUBMITTALS. UM, SO I, JUST TO BACK UP FOR A SECOND. MY NAME IS BRIAN WILSON. I AM THE IMMEDIATE NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR TO THE PROJECT HOUSE AT 1138 FUGATE. MY ADDRESS IS 1136 FUGATE. UM, SO JUST TO KIND OF A, A SUMMARY IS ON JUNE 12TH, UM, PLANS WERE SUBMITTED FOR A, A FAIRLY MODEST 2200 SQUARE FOOT HOME WITH DETACHED GARAGE, UM, ON JUNE 4TH DURING REMODELING. THE ORIGINAL HOME COLLAPSED, AS WE KNOW. UM, AND IN MY OPINION, THE HOUSE, THE COLLAPSE WAS AVOIDABLE. UM, I DON'T SUPPORT THE NEW 2,800 SQUARE FOOT HOME. UM, IT'S, I UNDERSTAND IT'S BEING, WELL, LET'S SEE, TWO, TWO MAIN REASONS. THERE'S ALL THE REASONS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE ON MASSING APPEARANCE, ET CETERA. BUT THE TWO BIG REASONS ARE IT HAS A, THE TWO PRIMARY REASONS ARE IT HAS A TWO STORY GARAGE APARTMENT, UM, EXTENSION OF THE HOME. UM, IT IS NOT A SEPARATE, YOU CAN'T CONSIDER 'EM SEPARATELY. YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER THE GARAGE AND THE HOUSE TOGETHER. THEY ALL TOTAL, TOTAL OF JUST ABOUT 2,800 SQUARE FEET. UM, AT THE HOME, EVEN THOUGH THE HOME IS JUST UNDER 2300 SQUARE FEET, THE TOTAL COMBINED AREA IS ABOUT 2,800 SQUARE FEET. UM, THEY DO HAVE A BREEZEWAY THAT SEPARATES 'EM, BUT IT'S A MASTER SUITE THAT'S REALLY PART OF THE HOUSE. UM, SO IT IS A GARAGE APARTMENT, WHICH DIRECTLY VIOLATES THE NOR HILL DEED RESTRICTIONS. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO, I DON'T THINK YOU REALLY HAVE THE ABILITY TO, TO CONTROL THAT, BUT THAT IS TRUE. UM, AND THEN CONCEPTUALLY, THIS, THIS PROPOSAL IS THE SAME AS THE TWO PRIOR DENIED SUBMITTALS. THEY ALL SUBMIT ABOUT 2,800 SQUARE FEET, WHICH IS THE BIG, THE BIG ISSUE HERE. UH, AND SO THERE'S NOT REALLY THAT MUCH OF A CHANGE IN THIS ONE VERSUS THE OTHER ONES. UM, SO I'LL, I CAN SUMMARIZE REAL QUICK IF YOU ALLOW ME, BUT IS THERE THOSE MOTIONS TO GIVE THE SPEAKER AN ADDITIONAL MINUTE? IS THERE A SECOND? I GRAB SECONDS. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. PLEASE PROCEED. UM, THE LAST THING THAT I WILL NOTE IS THAT, UH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THE LAST THING THAT I'LL NOTE IS THAT THE, THE FIFTH ITEM THAT I HAD HERE IN THE LIST, IN ADDITION TO MASSING [00:35:01] AND EVERYTHING, WAS THAT THIS WOULD, I KNOW IT DEFINITELY BY NO MEANS WAS, UH, THIS WAS TO TOTALLY AN ACCIDENT THAT THIS HAPPENED, THAT THE HOUSE COLLAPSED. BUT IT DID, IT DID HAPPEN. I BELIEVE IT WAS AVOIDABLE. UM, IF YOU ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN IT OR THIS TO GO FORWARD, IT WOULD JUST REWARD SOMEBODY IN THE FUTURE THIS TIME AND IN THE FUTURE FOR MAKING A MISTAKE. UM, AND THAT I JUST ASK THAT YOU RESPECTFULLY, UH, DENY THE APPLICATION AND CONSIDER GOING BACK TO WHAT WAS ORIGINALLY APPROVED ON JUNE 12TH. THANK YOU. THANKS. UH, THE NEXT SPEAKER I'VE SIGNED UP IS JOHN ELLI. I MIGHT LOOK LIKE DWAYNE BRADLEY, BUT I'M SPEAKING FOR JOHN SANTORELLI. HIS LETTER WAS SUBMITTED, UH, AND HE WASN'T ABLE TO MAKE IT. I'M JUST GONNA READ A FEW EXCERPTS FROM THIS, WHICH HAS BEEN PUT ON THE RECORD. UH, DEAR COMMISSION MEMBERS, YOU'VE JUST HEARD FROM HOMEOWNERS IN THE NOR HILL NEIGHBORHOOD, WHY? FOR REASONS OF SCALE, MASSING, FAR SQUARE FOOTAGE, DEED, RESTRICTION, VIOLATIONS, ET CETERA, THE PROPOSED HOME DOES NOT BELONG IN NOR HILL. IT IS POSSIBLE INDEED, THAT THERE ARE MANY, AND THERE ARE MANY FINE EXAMPLES OF EXPANSIONS THAT RESPECT THE MASSING SCALE IN BUNGALOW STYLE OF THIS HISTORIC DISTRICT, AND RESPECT THE GREEN SPACE AND OPENNESS THAT CHARACTERIZES THE NEIGHBORHOOD. IT IS POSSIBLE TO STRIKE A VIBRANT BALANCE BETWEEN THE HISTORIC CHARACTER OF NOR HILL AND THE DESIRE FOR A MODERN HOME LARGE ENOUGH TO RAISE CHILDREN AND A FAMILY. THE PROPOSED NEW BUILD AT 1138 FUGATE DOES NOT STRIKE THAT BALANCE. IT DOES NOT BELONG IN NOR HILL. MANY HOMEOWNERS HAVE WORKED CLOSELY AND COLLABORATIVELY WITH THE DEED COMMITTEE ON THEIR PROJECTS AND BENEFITED FROM THE KNOWLEDGE, SKILLS AND EXPERIENCE OF COMMITTEE MEMBERS AS THEY FINALIZE THE DESIGNS FOR THEIR PROJECTS. SOME NOTABLY, INDIVIDUALS OR BUILDERS WHO INTENTIONALLY WANT TO FLAUNT THE RULES AND UNDERMINE THE DEED RESTRICTIONS CLAIM TO BE ALIGNED WITH DEED RESTRICTIONS, YET THE PROJECTS THEY PRESENT EVIDENTLY ARE NOT. I RESPECTFULLY ASK THE HAHC TO REJECT THIS PROPOSAL FOR 1138 FUGATE. AND WHEN EVALUATING ANY INDIVIDUAL HOME IN NOR HILL FOR MODIFICATION OR EXPANSION, TO CAREFULLY CONSIDER NOT JUST THAT INDIVIDUAL HOUSE, BUT FIRST AND FOREMOST, THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE IMPACT OF THE PROJECT ON THE HISTORICAL INTEGRITY, THE BUNGALOW STYLE, AND THE VISION OF NOR HILL AND HOUSTON, THAT THAT CONTINUES TO REPRESENT RESPECTFULLY, JOHN SANTORELLI, THAT'S FROM JOHN. AND I'LL JUST CONCLUDE BY THANKING YOU FOR THE, UH, DESIGN GUIDELINES THAT HAVE BEEN PUBLISHED AS OF YESTERDAY OR THE DAY BEFORE. LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING SOME OF YOU AT MONTE BEACH PARK NEXT WEEK TO, UH, GO OVER THEM. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. UM, AND AGAIN, I'LL JUST MENTION, UH, I KNOW KEVIN SIMMONS SIGNED UP TO ANSWER QUESTIONS, BUT IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK, UM, I'M GOOD. OKAY. IS THERE ANYONE ELSE IN THE AUDIENCE THAT SURE. OKAY. IF YOU COULD, IF YOU COULD STATE YOUR NAME IN THE MICROPHONE RECORD. GOOD AFTERNOON. KEVIN SIMMONS, OWNER OF 1138 FUGATE. THE ONLY THING I WANT TO TOUCH ON IS, UM, THEY BROUGHT UP ITEM SEVEN, WHICH WAS APPROVED. IT'S A 2,800 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE. THERE'S SO MUCH BIAS WITH THE NEIGHBORS IN NOR HILL AGAINST US. WE'VE WORKED HARD WITH, UH, THE HISTORIC DEPARTMENT TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT WAS SUITABLE. UM, I'M JUST, IT'S BEEN 10 MONTHS. I'M READY TO BE DONE WITH THIS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. IS THERE ANYONE ELSE IN THE AUDIENCE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS MATTER? JUST NOT SIGNED UP TO SPEAK. NOT HEARING ANYONE. I'M GONNA CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND, AND OPEN IT BACK UP TO THE COMMISSION. UM, UH, TERRANCE, CAN YOU RESTATE YOUR RECOMMENDATION AND WOULD COMMISSION MEMBERS FEEL FREE TO ASK QUESTIONS? YES, SIR. BEFORE I DO THAT, UM, I HAVE MR. SANTA'S LETTER, WHICH CAME AFTER THE REPORT WAS SUBMITTED, SO I'D LIKE TO SUBMIT THAT FOR THE RECORD. YOU GOT IT ALREADY. OKAY. SO FOR ITEM B THREE, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL WITH CONDITIONS THAT THE PROPOSED WALKWAY HAVE TALLER CASEMENT OR FIXED WINDOWS FLOOR TO CEILING HEIGHT, IF POSSIBLE. AND THE ITEM BEFORE FOR THE GARAGE STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL. OKAY. AND, UH, BEFORE WE, UM, I GUESS MY QUESTION IS JUST IS WE DON'T HAVE THE DESIGN GUIDELINES, UM, PASSED YET BY, YOU KNOW, RECOMMENDED BY THIS BODY OR, OR APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL. BUT, UH, MY QUESTION IS, IN TERMS OF OTHER STRUCTURES THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED IN THE PAST, UM, CAN YOU SAY WHAT THEIR GENERAL RANGE OF THE SIZE OF THOSE [00:40:01] PROPERTIES WERE? AND, AND HOW DOES THIS, UM, AND JUST IF IS THERE A COMPARISON TO THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED ADDITION TO THE FORMER, UH, THE STANDING HOME? SO IF YOU WOULD GO TO PAGE 21 OF 34, UM, YOU WILL SEE, UM, A LIST OF PROJECTS THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED BY THE HHC AS FAR AS TWO STORY ADDITIONS. UM, WHICH WE GIVE THE SQUARE FOOTAGE THE SIZE OF THE EXISTING HOME AND, AND THE SIZE OF THE ADDITION. UM, AND WE ALSO, ALTHOUGH IT'S NOT, I DON'T WANNA SAY IT'S NOT RELEVANT, BUT ALS, ALTHOUGH THE FAR IS NOT GOING TO BE TAKEN TO A TOTAL CONSIDERATION NOW BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE DESIGN GUIDELINES, WE LIST THE FAR, UM, IN THOSE PROJECTS. BUT IF YOU CAN SEE, UM, 7 31 KEY STREET TOTAL SQUARE FOOTAGE CAME OUT TO 2,624. UM, ALTHOUGH THAT LOT WAS A LITTLE BIGGER. UM, BUT WE ALSO HAVE 1101 MELWOOD, WHICH IS THE SAME AS THE FIVE, SAME 5,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT. UM, THE TOTAL SQUARE FOOTAGE ENDED UP BEING 27 0 3. UM, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF PROJECTS, UM, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF PROJECTS THAT WE COULD, WE COULD NAME, I MEAN 1102 FUGATE, UM, WHICH THE, UH, NEIGHBORHOOD CONSIDERS THE BIG BLUE, WELL, I BELIEVE IT'S 28 0 8 IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN. SO, UM, AND THAT HAS AN ATTACHED GARAGE, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, AS WELL AS THE BALCONY, UM, LOOKING OUT TO THE STREET. SO, UM, THIS BODY, ALTHOUGH MAY NOT HAVE BEEN ALL THESE COMMISSION MEMBERS HAVE, UM, APPROVED SUCH PROJECTS WITH SUCH SQUARE FOOTAGE. AND AS MR. SIS MENTIONED, UM, THE 10 32 KEY STREET, UM, THE TOTAL SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THAT HOME WITHOUT THE GARAGE IS 2247. SO, UM, IT'S PRETTY CLOSE IN SQUARE FOOTAGE AS FAR AS THE HOMES ARE CONCERNED. THANK YOU. CHAIRMAN, COMMISSION MEMBERS, ARE THERE OTHER QUESTIONS OF STAFF FOR THIS ITEM? MR. BROWNING? BROWNING, ARE THERE ANY OTHER HOMES IN THE NOR HILL AREA WITH A SECOND FLOOR ENCLOSED WALKWAY CONNECTING A SECOND FLOOR GARAGE TO THE HOME? NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE. NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE, BUT I, I, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU GUYS UNDERSTAND THAT STAFF DOES NOT HAVE AN ISSUE WITH ATTACHED OR DETACHED OR TWO STORY GARAGES, WHICH YOU'LL SEE WILL COME UP WHEN THE DESIGN GUIDELINES ARE PRESENTED BECAUSE, UM, LIKE WE JUST, WE, WE JUST DON'T HAVE THAT STANCE. THAT'S A NOR HILL DEED RESTRICTION, UH, DEAL. MM-HMM . AS FAR AS THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICE, WE DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH DETACHED GARAGES. UM, AND HOW WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS RIGHT NOW, IT'S UNCONDITIONED SPACE AND IT'S APPROXIMATELY, I WOULD SAY ABOUT 20, 25 SQUARE FEET OVER THE PORCH. UM, I KNOW ONE OF THE LETTERS MENTIONED THAT, UM, AND THE SPACE WAS OPEN AT FIRST AND THEN WE WORKED WITH THE APPLICANT. THEY WANTED TO CLOSE IT UP BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T WANT TO WALK IN OR DIDN'T WANT WHOEVER OWNS THE HOUSE TO WALK INTO THE ELEMENTS. AND WE TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THAT. AND THAT'S BEEN APPROVED IN OTHER HISTORIC DISTRICTS BEFORE. SO, UM, AS FAR AS IS THERE ANYTHING IN NOR HILL WITH THAT TYPE OF SITUATION? NOT TO, NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE, SIR. MAY I FOLLOW UP? PLEASE. AND I APPRECIATE WE CAN'T CONSIDER THE DEED RESTRICTIONS, BUT IF THERE ARE NO OTHER HOMES LIKE THAT WHEN IT WAS DESIGNED, AND I APPRECIATE TIMES CHANGE, WHY ISN'T, WHY DOESN'T THE PLANNING COMMISSION HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT? IT SEEMS LIKE A, A, PARTICULARLY IN THIS INSTANCE, WHAT IS, AS THE SPEAKERS WERE SPEAKING IT, IT CAME TO THE FOREFRONT OF MY MIND THAT IF THE MASTER BEDROOM IS INDEED OVER THE GARAGE, AND THAT WASN'T WHAT WAS PROPOSED IN THE LAST TWO MEETINGS THAT I WAS PART OF AS I UNDERSTAND THEM. CORRECT. THAT WE'VE NOW, IT SEEMS LIKE A WORKAROUND AROUND MASSING TO ME. UM, AND I'M TROUBLED BY IT AND I WANT YOU TO TELL ME WHY SHOULDN'T BE. WELL, OKAY, SO HOW WE LOOK AT MASSING, UH, IF, UH, LEMME GET THIS HERE, BEAR WITH ME FOR A SECOND, PLEASE. . SO HOW WE LOOK AT THIS PROJECT IN PARTICULAR VERSUS WHAT WAS PREVIOUSLY SUBMITTED IS THAT THEY TOOK THE CHANCE TO TRY TO BREAK UP THE MASSING, RIGHT? SO THERE'S, THERE'S A DIFF DISTANCE. [00:45:01] I'LL SAY IT'S, I BELIEVE NINE OR 10 FEET BETWEEN THE GARAGE AND THE BACK WALL OF THE HOME. ALTHOUGH THERE IS A NOTCH OUT WHERE THERE MIGHT BE SOME STORAGE OR SOMETHING ON THE FIRST FLOOR, UM, THE MASSING WAS BROKEN UP, AND THAT'S WHAT WE ALWAYS TRY TO ACHIEVE. WE WANNA SEE THE MASSING BROKEN UP. IT'S TOTALLY DIFFERENT WHEN YOU HAD ALL THIS SQUARE FOOTAGE OVER THE TOP OF THE PORCH AND THEN GOING TO THE GARAGE, BECAUSE IF YOU RECALL, THERE IS A DESIGN WHERE THEY DID BUMP THE SECOND FLOOR BACK, BUT IT WENT ALL THE WAY ACROSS TO THE BACK OF THE GARAGE. RIGHT. AND THERE WAS NO BREAKING UP. AND WE DISCUSSED IT THEN. SO WHEN THEY CAME WITH THIS PROPOSAL WHERE THEY BROKE UP THE MASSING, UM, WE SEE IT AS AN EFFORT TO TRY TO BREAK UP THE MASS AND THEN GIVE YOU SOMETHING. AND THEN ONCE THEY DECIDED TO AGREED, RATHER ONCE THEY AGREED TO USE A TRANSPARENCY, UM, WITH THE GLAZING, UH, FOR THE WALKWAY AND ITS UNCONDITION SPACE, WE CONSIDERED IT AS SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD TOTALLY BE, IT WOULD BE TOTALLY TRANSPARENT AND YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO TELL THAT IT WAS THERE. DO WE KNOW IT'S THERE? YES. DO THE NOR HILL RESIDENTS KNOW IT'S THERE? YES. BUT TO THE AVERAGE PERSON DRIVING BY THE HOUSE OR WORKING ON WALKING BY THE STREET, THEY'LL ACTUALLY HAVE TO LOOK AT IT FOR A WHILE TO SEE IT. SO OUR VIEW IS HOW DOES IT LOOK FROM THE STREET AND FROM WHAT WE ARE VIEWING RIGHT NOW FROM THE STREET, WE THINK THAT THE MASSING IS BROKEN UP WELL ENOUGH TO WHERE THIS WOULD BE A, UM, UM, AN APPROPRIATE DESIGN. ONE MORE FOLLOW UP FOR A, FOR A LAWYER. OKAY. NOT AN ARCHITECT, NOT A BUILDER. CAN YOU PUT UP AN IMAGE TO JUST SHOW ME WHAT YOU MIGHT BE SEEING FROM STREET LEVEL? I THINK IT'LL BE BEFORE THAT. UH, LET'S GO TO PAGE 17 OF 34. THE TOP IMAGE WILL BE WHAT YOU WILL SEE FROM STUDENT WOOD. DO YOU HAVE AN IMAGE OF THAT WITH THE GARAGE APARTMENT WITH THE, WELL, NOT SHADOWED. NO, I DON'T, I HAVE A LITTLE TROUBLE WITH THAT PRESENTATION OF NOT SHOWING US WHAT THE PROJECT LOOKS LIKE IN ITS ENTIRETY. I MEAN, THIS IS, AND I I I DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND THE LOGIC OF NOT COUNTING THE LIVING AREA ABOVE THE GARAGE AS PART OF THE SQUARE FOOTAGE. I MEAN, YOU'RE, YOU'RE TELLING ME THEY'RE CONNECTED IN UNCONDITIONED SPACE THAT'S GOING TO BE COMPLETELY SEALED FROM THE ELEMENTS AND COULD BE EASILY CONDITIONED. AND THAT'S INCONSISTENT WITH, YOU KNOW, HOW WE INTERPRET OVERHANGS IN THE HEIGHTS WHERE WE'RE COUNTING SOMETHING TOWARD THE FAR BECAUSE IT'S A MASSING THING AND WE HAVE CREATED AN ADDITIONAL MASS HERE AND, AND WE'RE NOT EVEN ACCOUNTING FOR IT. AND YOU'RE SPEAKING, YOU'RE SPEAKING SOLELY ABOUT THE GARAGE. CORRECT? I I, I MEAN, I THINK THE WHOLE THING MAKES AN ENORMOUS MASS. I MEAN, THE GLASS WINDOW IS WHATEVER, I MEAN, THEY'RE STILL CONNECTED TO EACH OTHER. IT'S STILL ONE SINGULAR MASS ACROSS THE ENTIRE, YOU KNOW, WEST FACADE. RIGHT. AND, UM, HOW STAFF LOOKED AT THE, WELL, WE CAN'T NECESSARILY TAKE THE HEIGHTS AND HEIGHTS DESIGN GUIDELINES INTO CONSIDERATION FOR THIS PROJECT AS YOU OH, I, I KNOW. I'M JUST SAYING THAT, THAT THE, THE TRAIN OF THOUGHT IS INCONSISTENT WITH THE HEIGHTS DESIGN GUIDELINES. NO, NO. JUST HOW WE ARE INTERPRETING SOMETHING IN ONE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND HOW WE'RE INTERPRETING IT IN THIS HISTORIC DISTRICT. WELL, SO IT, IT, I MEAN, AND HOW WE'RE CALCULATING SQUARE FOOTAGE, I MEAN, IT'S, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FAR, I MEAN, YOU'RE, YOU'RE EXCLUDING SQUARE FOOTAGE FROM SOMETHING THAT IS CLEARLY ATTACHED TO THE MAIN DWELLING. WELL, AND, AND WE ARE ADDING SQUARE FOOTAGE IN THE HEIGHTS IN CASES WHERE THE SECOND FLOOR OVERHANGS SO FAR THAT WE CREATE MASS OUT OF A COVERED PATIO. SO, I MEAN, THERE, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT HISTORIC DISTRICT IT IS, IT'S INCONSISTENT APPLICATION. I MEAN, I MEAN, I I, SO THIS SHOULD BE PRESENTED AS ONE SINGULAR ITEM. THEY ARE CONNECTED, THEY ARE ATTACHED. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER IT'S A HARDY PLANK WALL OR A GLASS WALL. I MEAN, WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT SOMETHING THAT'S PRESENTED AS 2,800 WHATEVER FEET. AND THE CLEAR OMISSION OF THE ELEVATION IS VERY MISLEADING. WELL, WE, WELL, I, I MEAN THAT, I'LL BE GETTING INTO SEMANTICS EXPLAINING WHY WE DON'T HAVE THE GARAGE, BUT, UM, I MEAN, I, I FEEL LIKE IT'S KIND OF A, UH, DARNED IF YOU DO, DARNED IF YOU DON'T TYPE OF SITUATION, BECAUSE I MEAN, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE HEIGHTS, BUT IF WE WERE LOOKING AT THIS FROM THE HEIGHTS LENS, THAT GARAGE APARTMENT OR LIVABLE SPACE WOULD HAVE BEEN EXEMPT. SO, I MEAN, NOT IF IT [00:50:01] WAS ATTACHED CORRECT , BUT WE WE'RE, BUT IF IT WAS AN UNCONDITIONED SPACE TO THE GARAGE IN THE HEIGHTS, WE WOULD NOT CONSIDER IT ATTACHED. RIGHT. AND WE WOULD NOT CONSIDER IT AS SQUARE FOOTAGE OVER THE, AS AS FAR. SO, I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. IT, UH, IT'S, WE WORKED WITH THE APPLICANT FOR A SOLUTION WHILE HAVING TAKEN CONSIDERATION WHAT THE HEIGHTS DESIGN GUIDELINES STATE, BUT NOT APPLYING THEM TO THIS, TO THIS PROJECT, AND ALSO NOT APPLYING THE NOR HILL DEED RESTRICTIONS. WE ARE LOOKING AT THIS STRICTLY FROM THE ORDINANCE STANDPOINT WHILE LOOKING AT EVERYTHING ELSE THROUGH A CLOUDY LENS, IF YOU WILL. SO, I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S REALLY A HARD SITUATION FOR US TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT. BUT IN WORKING WITH THE APPLICANT WHO, AS YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON THIS THING SINCE MARCH, UM, STAFF TRULY BELIEVED, AND I CAN SPEAK FOR ALL OF US, WE ALL THOUGHT THAT THIS WAS THE BEST THING THAT WE WERE GETTING AT THIS POINT. AND WE ALL AGREED ON AN APPROVAL BASED ON THE THINGS THAT WERE PRESENTED IN, IN, UH, IN FRONT OF US AND THE THINGS THAT WE KNOW AS FAR AS WHAT YOU'RE, UH, RELATING TO WITH THE HEIGHTS DESIGN GUIDELINES, NOR HILL DEED RESTRICTIONS AND THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION ORDINANCE. YEAH, I THINK TERRANCE, I GUESS I'LL ASK A QUESTION. I MEAN, THE, AGAIN, THIS IS NOT THE HEIGHTS, BUT THE, THE DEFINITION OF A PORCH OR, OR PORCH THAT'S NOT PART OF A FAR, IS EITHER AN OPEN PORCH OR A SCREENED IN PORCH. BUT IN THE HEIGHTS, IF, IF IT HAS WINDOWS, WHETHER IT'S CONDITIONED OR NOT, IT'S CONSIDERED PART OF THE FAR. SO, UM, I, I DUNNO WHETHER THE WINDOWS THEMSELVES BECOME PART OF THIS CONVERSATION OR NOT. SO CAN I ASK A QUESTION? PLEASE? IS IF IT WAS SCREENED IN, THEN IT WOULD BE. OKAY. WELL, I'M JUST TALKING ABOUT HOW PORCHES ARE, ARE DEFINED AND INTERPRETED THAT. RIGHT. THEY'RE EITHER OPEN OR SCREENED IN THAT DON'T COUNT TOWARD FAR. I'M JUST MAKING THAT POINT. OKAY. SO, UNDERSTOOD. IT'S, IT'S MORE OF A NO, I GET IT. I, I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND. BUT I GUESS THAT'S A, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION FOR ME AND MAYBE FOR THE APPLICANT IS WOULD WE BE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION IF IT WERE SCREENED IN WALKWAY? WE'RE GONNA FIND OUT. I THINK , UM, THIS IS WHAT I MEANT BY BAD NEWS PART THOUGH. , UM, COMMISSIONER DAVIS, DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF? SO ARE WE ARGUING THAT THE I, AND I DUNNO EXACTLY WHAT THE TOTAL SQUARE FEET, WHEN YOU ADD THE GARAGE APARTMENT TO THE HOUSE, THE FIRST TWO FLOORS, IS IT 27, 28, SOMETHING LIKE THAT? DO WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT? AND THERE ARE OTHER NOR HILL PROPERTIES THAT HAVE THAT SQUARE FOOTAGE? OR ARE WE ARGUING ABOUT THE RIDGE HEIGHT, WHICH IS 28 SQUARE FEET, WHICH IS ALSO THERE ARE OTHERS IN NOR HILL? SO I'M, I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH. I I I THINK WE'RE JUST, WE'RE, I MEAN, WE'RE DEFINING THE EDGES OF THIS SUBMISSION, I SUPPOSE, WITH TERMS OF UNDER FROM DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES. BUT, UM, WELL, UH, CAN I MAKE A COMMENT PLEASE? UM, UH, DEPUTY DIRECTOR WILLIAMSON, SINCE WE DON'T HAVE ANY DESIGN GUIDELINES IN PLACE YET, WHAT ALL WE HAVE TO RELY ON IS CHAPTER 33. AND CHAPTER 33 IS, UH, SOMEWHAT VAGUE ON A LOT OF THESE PARTICULARS. AND THIS SUBMISSION SATISFIED CHAPTER 33. SO WHEN STAFF MADE THE RECOMMENDATION, THAT WAS WHAT THEY HAD TO RELY ON WAS THE, WAS CHAPTER 33 MAKES SENSE. AND JUST THERE, I MEAN, WHEN YOU GET, WHEN WE GET TO THE DESIGN GUIDELINES GOING FORWARD, IT'S GONNA BE MUCH MORE SPECIFICITY AND HOMES LIKE THIS MIGHT WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED. SO THIS, THIS COULD BE THE LAST HOME LIKE THIS THAT COULD GET APPROVED IN NOR HILL. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? QUESTION FOR TERRANCE. UM, JUST SO THAT I KNOW I HAVE MY NUMBERS CORRECT, CAN YOU TELL ME, REMIND ME WHAT THE TOTAL APPROVED FINISHED SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE WHOLE LOT WOULD'VE BEEN BEFORE THE PRIOR STRUCTURE WAS DEMOLISHED? AND THEN WHAT IS THE NUMBER NOW? YOU MEAN WITH THE, UH, WITH THE ALTERATION EDITION THAT WAS APPROVED, EVERYTHING ON THE LOT PRIOR TO DEMOLITION AND POST. WHAT'S, WHAT ARE, WHAT'S THE TWO? OKAY, SO, SO THE, WITH THE ORIGINAL HOUSE, WITH THE PROPOSED EDITION, THE SQUARE FOOTAGE WAS 2304. OKAY. AND THEN THE, [00:55:01] THEY HAD A, UM, ONE STORY GARAGE. SO I MEAN, WE WOULD NOT BE ADDING THAT TO THE, TO THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THAT. 'CAUSE IT WASN'T, THERE WAS NOT SQUARE FOOTAGE OVER THE GARAGE FOR THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED COA. OKAY. SO WE WENT FROM 2304 PRIOR, AND NOW WHAT'S IN FRONT OF US TODAY IS 28. IT, IT, IT DEPENDS ON HOW YOU LOOK AT IT. SO 23, I MEAN 2275 FOR THE HOME. AND IF WE'RE GONNA CALL IT ATTACHED, THEN, I MEAN, IF YOU CHOOSE TO CALL IT ATTACHED AN ADDITIONAL 560 AND, UM, I MEAN, NOT THE GREATEST MASTER, SO 28 35. SO 28 35. OKAY. YES, SIR. SO, ALL RIGHT. SO MORE THAN 500 FEET ADDITIONAL? YES. OKAY. AND I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE SURE, 'CAUSE UH, COMMISSIONER BROWNING ASKED A QUESTION ABOUT ANY OTHER HOMES. SO THERE WAS A HOME AT 8 0 2 WEST MELWOOD. WE CAN PULL WEST TEMPLE, I'M SORRY, WEST TEMPLE 8 0 2 WEST TEMPLE THAT, UM, WE CAN PULL UP THAT HAS AN ATTACHED GARAGE. AND I'D ALSO LIKE TO ADD, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, THOSE GARAGE DOORS ARE FULL DOORS. SO THERE IS A, UH, THERE'S SQUARE FOOTAGE ON THE FIRST FLOOR OF THE GARAGE. SO, UM, YEAH. CONDITION SPACE. SO I, I MEAN, THAT WAS APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION IN 2022, BUT NOT CONNECTED. OH, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S CONNECTED. IT'S CONNECTED, WHICH WAS ALSO APPROVED BY THE NOR HILL NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. NOW IT MAY, IT'S NOT CONNECTED WITH A TRANSPARENT WALKWAY, BUT IT IS AN ATTACHED FULL GARAGE, IF YOU WILL. BUT THE MASS OF THE, THE, THE GARAGE WAS EXISTING AND THERE'S NO ADDITIONAL MASS OVER THE ORIGINAL HOUSE. I MEAN, THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE REALLY TWO DIFFERENT PROJECTS. TWO DIFFERENT PROJECTS, YEAH. I MEAN, NOT BUYING THAT . YEAH. BUT I THINK, I THINK THAT THE, CAN I MAKE A COMMENT ABOUT THAT QUICK? NO, WAIT. THAT, AND I, AS I RECALL, UM, THE OTHER SUBMISSION THAT WE JUST ON THE SCREEN CURRENTLY WAS A ONE STORY HOUSE IN THE FRONT, WHICH, WHICH TREATED VERY DIFFERENTLY BECAUSE IT WASN'T A ONE STORY WITH A POP-UP ADDITION. IT WAS JUST A ONE STORY HOME. UM, UM, I'D LIKE TO CLARIFY SOMETHING. THE, SO THE GARAGE STRUCTURE FOR THIS PROJECT WAS DEMOLISHED AND THEN REBUILT MM-HMM . I THINK IT WAS BUILT OUT BEHIND THE EXISTING STRUCTURE, BUT I THINK BECAUSE IT WAS A ONE STORY STRUCTURE AND THE ADDITION WAS NOT OVER THE, THE HOME PER SE, I THINK THAT'S, AS I RECALL, UM, HOW IT WAS, YOU KNOW, LOOKED AT PREVIOUSLY, UH, 2022, I WAS ON MY HIATUS FROM THE CITY. I DON'T REMEMBER. UM, NO, I, I, WE CAN FIND OUT, BUT I, I HONESTLY DON'T KNOW OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OF STAFF FROM COMMISSION FOR THIS ITEM? AND, AND I JUST WANNA MAKE, I MEAN, WE JUST WANTED, THIS IS THE CLOSEST THING THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO FIND, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, COMMISSIONER DEL. YEAH. IS THERE A, UH, REPRESENTATION OF THE ENTIRE PROJECT FROM THE FRONT ELEVATION FROM FUGATE OR ONLY FROM STU WOOD , FRONT ELEVATION FROM FUGATE? MM-HMM . INCLUDING THE GARAGE OF THE GARAGE? NO, THE ENTIRE FRONT ELEVATION. I DON'T, I DON'T SEE ONE IN THE, IN THE SEAT. YEAH. SO I MEAN, THE GARAGE IS LOWER. SO I MEAN, THE FRONT FACADE THAT YOU SEE FROM FUGATE, THAT'S GONNA BE, I MEAN, UNLESS YOU'RE, WHAT I'M, THAT'S WHAT I'M FEELING. LIKE I WOULD SEE. YEAH, I, THAT THAT'S ALL. YOU WOULD DIDN'T KNOW IF YOU HAD A, SEE, THE GARAGE IS LOWER, MUCH LOWER 24 FEET. YEAH. I MEAN, IT'S FOUR FEET LOWER THAN THE EXISTING, I MEAN, IN THE PROPOSED HOME RIGHT NOW. SO YOU WOULDN'T, YOU WOULDN NOT SEE THE GARAGE FROM FUGATE, FROM STUDIO WOOD? ABSOLUTELY. WAS STUDIO WOOD, YOU WOULD, WOULD ABSOLUTELY SEE IT, BUT NOT FROM FUGATE. AND THERE IS NO VIOLATION, CHAPTER 33 OR ANYTHING ELSE CONCERNING A SECOND STORY ON THE GARAGE AS FAR AS THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICE IT'S CONCERNED? NO, SIR. IT, SO IT'S A CONSENSUS OF THIS BODY BASICALLY IS WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO. IT'S WHERE THE CONSENSUS IS. SO IT'S WHAT DO YOU, I MEAN, ULTIMATELY IT'S, IT'S WHETHER THERE'S CONSENSUS AMONGST THE TABLE TO SUPPORT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION OR NOT. [01:00:01] OH, CLEARLY. I, I'M JUST SO GOING THROUGH THE MORE OR LESS THE, THE CRITERIA. SURE. 'CAUSE I THINK THAT'S, UM, A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF THIS WHOLE THING. ABSOLUTELY. HOW, HOW ARE YOU GONNA COMPLY WITH, WITH ANYTHING, YOU'RE NOT CROSS CHECKING THE CRITERIA. SURE. IF THERE ARE NO OTHER QUESTIONS, WE CAN ALSO ENTERTAIN MOTIONS. SO, UM, D DISCUSSION OR WE CAN DISCUSS. YES, PLEASE. OKAY. UM, SO SPECIFIC TO THIS, UH, UH, PROPOSAL TODAY, I, I STILL FEEL THE SAME WAY I DID A MONTH AGO, THAT IT'S JUST NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD. BEYOND THAT, I'M REALLY, REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE POTENTIAL PRECEDENT THAT THIS SITUATION COULD SET. UM, IT IS NOT HARD TO ACCIDENTALLY DEMOLISH A HISTORIC HOME. AND IF THE, WHAT HAD BEEN APPROVED BEFORE WAS 2300 SQUARE FEET, AND SUDDENLY AFTER THE ACCIDENT, ACCIDENTAL DEMOLITION, IT'S WHAT'S, WHAT MIGHT BE APPROVED IS 2,800 SQUARE FEET. UM, THAT WOULD CREATE A MASSIVE INCENTIVE FOR BUILDERS, UM, TO PERHAPS FIND WAYS TO DO THE SAME THING IN THE FUTURE. I MEAN, THE GOING PRICE PER SQUARE FOOT IN THAT AREA IS $450 A SQUARE FOOT. THAT ADDITIONAL 500 SQUARE FEET IS GONNA GIVE, UH, AN AN AN ADDITIONAL $225,000 OF VALUE TO ME THAT, THAT, THAT CREATES AN INCENTIVE FOR NEFARIOUS BEHAVIOR. AND I WOULD BE REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE PRECEDENT THIS MIGHT SET. WELL, I JUST WANNA MENTION THAT I KNOW THIS, THIS, THAT ISSUE, I GUESS, WENT TO THE APPEALS BOARD. I THINK THEY RULED ON THAT ISSUE ITSELF. AND, UM, I'M VERY MUCH LOOKING FORWARD TO HAVING GUIDELINES THAT ARE RECOMMENDED FOR APPROVAL AND, AND ACTUALLY APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, JUST SO THAT WE CAN HAVE A, AS ROBERT SAID, A MORE PRESCRIPTIVE DEFINED, UM, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS. SO THAT, UM, BUT YOU KNOW, WE'RE, BECAUSE WE'RE UNDER THE CRITERIA ONLY, THERE'S, THERE'S, IT'S, THERE'S, IT'S MORE SUBJECTIVE IN THAT REGARD. SO IT'S REALLY WHAT I MEANT EARLIER ABOUT THE CONSENSUS OF THIS BODY. IT'S, IT'S EACH OF, EACH OF EACH MEMBER HERE COMES FROM DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES, DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW, AND, UM, YOU KNOW, NOT EVERYONE THINKS ALIKE. SO THAT'S, AND THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO. SO IT'S, WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO TEST THE WATERS WITH A MOTION. UM, THAT'LL PASS OR IT WON'T PASS. AND WE'LL, IF IT DOESN'T PASS, THEN WE'LL TRY, TRY ANOTHER MOTION. BUT I THINK IF THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, OTHER QUESTIONS, IT WOULD BE GOOD TO BRING A MOTION. CAN, CAN I JUST, COMM COMM HICK. I'M SORRY. YES. UM, I JUST WANT US TO SAY AND, AND MAKE SURE THAT THIS IS ON RECORD. UM, WHEN STAFF LOOKED AT THIS, UM, WE HAD, UH, LOTS OF CONVERSATIONS WITH, WITH OUR LEGAL TEAM, UM, ESPECIALLY AFTER THE APPEALS BOARD AND COMING BACK TO COMMISSION AND ALL THAT. UM, AND WE MADE A CONCERTED EFFORT, AND I THINK WE DID A DARN GOOD JOB OF DOING IT, OF ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY PUTTING A DEMOLITION BEHIND IT. WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS AS A NEW CONSTRUCTION IN NOR HILL AND A NEW CONSTRUCTION IN NOR HILL. ONLY. THAT IS THE REASON WHY YOU DON'T HEAR ME MENTION WHAT HAPPENED. UM, WE UNDERSTAND THE PRECEDENT. I MEAN, WE'LL, WE HAVE HAD CONVERSATIONS OF HOW WILL WE ADD, UM, DEMOLITION LANGUAGE INTO THE NOR HILL DESIGN GUIDELINES, WHICH IS NEITHER HERE NOR THERE, BUT I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT YOU GUYS UNDERSTAND THAT WHERE WE WERE COMING FROM THE DEMOLITION WAS NOT CONSIDERED AT, AT ANY POINT IN THIS REVIEW OF THIS SUBMISSION. MR. CHAIR, IF I COULD PLEASE, I'LL ADD TOO, AND I'M GLAD TERRANCE BROUGHT THAT UP, THAT WE DID HAVE SIGN A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF DISCUSSIONS. OF COURSE, THROUGHOUT THE, THE WHOLE PROGRESS OF, OF WHAT'S HAPPENED ON THIS LOT, YOU'RE NOT HERE TO CONSIDER WHAT HAPPENED ON THE DEMOLITION, UH, THAT'S BEEN RESOLVED BY THE APPEALS BOARD. YOU HAVE A RECOMMENDATION FROM STAFF THAT IT MEETS CHAPTER 33, ABSENT ANY OTHER DESIGN GUIDELINES AS TO THE SITUATION OF WHETHER OR NOT THIS CONSTITUTE A PRESS, CONSTITUTES A PRECEDENT FOR OTHER LOTS TO THE EXTENT THAT IT MIGHT BE INVOLVED OR INCLUDED IN A CONTEXT AREA FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION. IT MIGHT BE A COMPARATIVE OR COMPARABLE IN TERMS OF REAL ESTATE. BUT EACH PIECE OF PROPERTY IS UNIQUE, AND THIS IS A VACANT LOT. NOW THEY'VE GOT A RIGHT TO DEVELOP SOMETHING, THEY HAVE [01:05:01] TO JUMP THROUGH THIS HURDLE. BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S UP TO YOU ALL TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS ON CHAPTER 33 WITH THOSE CONDITIONS ARE APPROPRIATE. THANK YOU. AND ALONG THOSE LINES, IT'LL BE A NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT. SO A PRECEDENT WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BE SET, LIKE YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO USE THIS WHEN DESIGNING A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE. THIS WILL STAND ALONE ON ITS OWN. WE CANNOT USE NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES, WHICH YOU'LL SEE LATER ON IN THIS, UH, MEETING. BUT YOU CANNOT USE NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES AS A PRECEDENT FOR A CONTRIBUTING HOME, UH, OR A NEW CONSTRUCTION IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT. GOOD JOB, CHARLES. OKAY, MR. BROWNING, YOU HAD A QUESTION? UM, NO QUESTION. I DO HAVE A COMMENT. UM, WHEN I WAS COMING INTO TODAY'S MEETING, AFTER DOING MY STUDYING, I WAS PREPARED TO AGREE WITH ALL STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS. UM, IF ANYONE COMES BEFORE A COMMISSIONER OR A BOARD AND SAYS, PUBLIC COMMENT DOESN'T MATTER, THEY'RE WRONG. UM, YOU, UH, THE SPEAKERS BROUGHT CERTAIN ISSUES OR PHRASED THEM ANY CERTAIN WAY, THAT MADE ME GO BACK AND LOOK, I REALIZED I'D MISSED SOME THINGS. I IF DESIGN GUIDELINES ARE ISSUED, WHICH SAYS THAT A CONNECTED STRUCTURE IS PERMITTED, SO BE IT. UNTIL THAT HAPPENS THOUGH. UM, PIGGYBACKING ON COMMISSIONER COSGROVE'S COMMENTS, I HAVE A, I HAVE AN ISSUE THAT THIS SEEMS LIKE A WORKAROUND ON THIS SQUARE FOOTAGE BY CONNECTING A LIVING SPACE OVER A SEPARATE STRUCTURE. UM, AND SO, UH, MY, MY POSITION HAS CHANGED FOR THAT REASON. COMMISSIONER DAVIS, DO I UNDERSTAND IS, IS YOUR MICROPHONE ON? SORRY. BUT DO I UNDERSTAND THAT LEGALLY THE WAY WE ARE SUPPOSED TO LOOK AT THIS IS, DOES THIS COMPLY WITH SECTION 33 OR DOESN'T IT? AND IF IT DOES COMPLY, DO WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO SAY THAT WE DON'T AGREE WITH IT? THAT'S MY QUESTION. I'M SORRY. DID WELL, SO DO WE, SO IN OTHER WORDS, I, IF, IF THIS, I DON'T SEE ANYBODY BRINGING UP A LEGAL JUSTIFICATION FOR DENYING THIS APPROVAL. WELL, I THINK MY QUESTION FOR LEGAL IS THAT EACH COMMISSION MEMBER HERE HAS THE ABILITY TO JUDGE FOR THEMSELVES WHETHER IT MEETS THE CRITERIA, RIGHT. THAT, THAT IT, IT'S NOT A, UM, EACH, EACH MEMBER OF THIS COMMISSION IS ASKED TO DETERMINE THAT FOR THEMSELVES. AND, AND THEN WHEN WE FIND CONSENSUS, WE FIND WHERE WE ARE GOING TO BE ON ANY GIVEN ISSUE, UH, JUST TO BE ABSTRACT ABOUT IT. SO IT'S, THERE IT IS. UM, EACH MEMBER HERE IS, HAS, IT DETERMINES THEIR OWN INTERPRETATION OF THE CRITERIA AND OTHER FACTORS THAT THEY MAY SEE. IS, IS, IS THAT, YEAH. I'M SORRY. I'M TRYING TO PULL UP THE, THE STATUTE. YEAH. UM, TO FIND OUT, I AM RECALLING THAT THE CODE STATES THAT IT SHALL BE APPROVED IF YOU WANT TO MOVE ON WHILE I PULL THAT UP. YEAH. THE COMPUTER DOES NOT, LIKE, WHILE SHE'S LOOKING AT THAT, SURE. DOES NOT LIKE THE MEANING THERE. CODE SITE. I, I WILL ALSO ADD THAT I KNOW THIS IS TRUE WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION. SOMETIMES IT TASTES LIKE VINEGAR TO HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION. IT'S NOT ALWAYS FUN. THAT'S WHY YOU GET PAID THE BIG BUCKS. BUT, UM, YEAH, AND, AND OF COURSE YOU NEED TO STILL VOTE YOUR CONSCIENCE AND, YOU KNOW, YOU DO BRING YOUR OWN PERSPECTIVE TO THIS. SO ALL OF THAT DOES WEIGH INTO IT. UM, I'M ACTUALLY MAKING PROGRESS HERE. HANG ON ONE SECOND. AND ALSO, WHAT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION IS, I THINK THAT THE, THE COMMISSION DOESN'T ALWAYS SIDE WITH THE RECOMMENDATION FROM STAFF, BUT I DO THINK WHEN STAFF MAKE, WHEN THEY MAKE A RECOMMENDATION, WE, WE TRY VERY HARD TO, TO, YOU KNOW, HOLD TO THAT. UNLESS THERE'S SOME FACTOR THAT'S BEEN BROUGHT UP THAT'S DIFFERENT OR THAT HAS ANOTHER, ANOTHER ASPECT TO IT. SO, UM, BUT, SO ANOTHER QUESTION THEN IS IF THE COMMISSION DENIES THE THIS, THEN DOES THE APPLICANT HAVE THE ABILITY TO THEN APPEAL IT? YES. TO THE APPEALS BOARD AND THEIR BASIS, THEY'RE GOING TO LOOK AT CHAPTER 30, SECTION 33 SUM TOTAL. THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE HAVE TO DO. THEY'RE GONNA, THE RECOMMENDATION FROM STAFF AND THE, THE CONSIDERATION OF WHETHER OR NOT IT COMPLIED WITH THE, UM, THE, THE STANDARDS FOR THE ISSUANCE OF CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR A NON-CONTRIBUTING NEW CONSTRUCTION STRUCTURE. SO PLEASE, WITH ALL THAT BEING SAID, CAN SOMEONE [01:10:01] EXPLAIN WHAT VIOLATE, IF, IF ANYTHING PRESENTED HERE TODAY IS VIOLATING ANY OF THE ORDINANCE STATUTES, ET CETERA? I THINK RIGHT NOW WHAT WE'RE ARGUING ABOUT IS COMPATIBILITY WITHIN MM-HMM . WHICH IS SOMETHING A LITTLE MORE SUBJECTIVE, RIGHT? IT'S, YEAH. UM, BUT WE'RE RIGHT NOW DEBATING WHETHER THIS IS A COMPATIBLE, ALBEIT NEW STRUCTURE WITHIN NORTH HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT, GIVEN ALL THE DIFFERENT CONTEXTS WE'VE BEEN GIVEN. YEAH, I, I THINK WHAT, WHAT, WHAT'S BEING BROUGHT UP? SO SECTION 33, 2 42 STATES THAT FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS, THE HISTORIC COMMISSION SHALL ISSUE A C OF A, OBVIOUSLY I'M ABBREVIATING SOME THINGS HERE FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT UPON FINDING THAT THE APPLICATION SATISFIES THE FOLLOWING CRITERIA, DISTANCES FROM PROPERTY LINES, SCALE AND PROPORTIONS. NUMBER TWO IS, UH, COMPATIBILITY WITH THE EXTERIOR FEATURES OF EXISTING CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES IN THE CONTEXT AREA DEPENDS ON WHAT, I SUPPOSE YOU CONSIDER AN EXTERIOR FEATURE, BUT THAT'S, CAN I ASK A QUESTION? YEAH, I'LL, I'LL LEAVE THAT TO, TO YOUR COMMISSIONER. KAISER JUDICIAL MINES. HAVE WE EVER APPROVED A STANDALONE TWO STORY GARAGE APARTMENT IN NOR HILL? YEAH. RIGHT. STANDALONE. THIS IS, IF YOU'RE CONSIDERING THIS, A STANDALONE GARAGE DEPARTMENT, HAVE WE EVER APPROVED ONE? UM, WELL, I KNOW YOU SAID WE ALLOWED SOMEONE TO REBUILD ONE, BUT HAVE WE EVER BUILT ONE FROM THE GROUND UP WHERE THERE WAS NOT AN EXISTING ONE BEFORE? I, I WOULD HAVE TO DO RESEARCH ON THAT WOULD BEG THE QUESTION IS HOW IS THAT THIS APPLICATION COMPATIBLE WITH, UH, WITH NOR HILL? WELL, I MEAN, LET ME SAY THIS. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT HAS BEEN DONE. THAT WILL REQUIRE SOME RESEARCH. I DO KNOW IF IT WERE TO COME TO US FOR DECEMBER'S COMMISSION, WE WOULD APPROVE IT AND NOR HILL WOULD BE HERE TO PROBABLY SPEAK AGAINST IT. SO DOES THAT KIND OF HELP ? YEAH. MY POINT IS, IS THAT IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT OCCURS THAT ANYBODY CAN RECALL OCCURRING IN NOR HILL, WHICH IT, IT, THE ORDINANCE TALKS ABOUT COMPATIBILITY. IS THIS PROPERTY COMPATIBLE WITH ? I'M SORRY, GO AHEAD. WE'RE LOOKING IT UP NOW. OH, I MEAN, IS IT COMPATIBLE WITH OTHER, YOU KNOW, CAMELBACK STYLE ADDITIONS THAT, THAT MOST OF THEM DO NOT HAVE ADDITIONAL GARAGE APARTMENTS? I DON'T ACTUALLY, THE, THE, THE HOUSE APPLICATION THAT'S 2200 FEET IS, IS CERTAINLY COMPATIBLE WITH THINGS THAT WE HAVE APPROVED. AND I DON'T HAVE ANY TROUBLE WITH THAT. IT'S THE ADDITION OF THE GARAGE APARTMENT, WHICH IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH ANY OTHER PROPERTIES IN NOR HILL. I MEAN, SAVE THE FEW THAT HAVE GARAGE APARTMENTS. I MEAN, WE HAD ONE LAST MONTH WHERE, WHERE THEY WENT TO GREAT LENGTHS TO SAVE THE GARAGE APARTMENT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY, IT, IT WAS OF VALUE TO THAT PROPERTY. RIGHT? AND SO I, I GUESS THAT'S WHAT I'M STRUGGLING WITH. I DON'T HAVE ANY TROUBLE WITH THE 2275 SQUARE FOOT EDITION ON THE HOUSE, THE NEW CONSTRUCTION. IT IS THE ATTACHMENT OF A, OF A DETACHED. I MEAN, IT'S A, THE CONSTRUCTION OF A TWO STORY GARAGE APARTMENT, WHICH IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH PROPERTIES IN NOR HILL AT ALL. AND THEN TO TAKE IT A STEP FARTHER AND THEN CONNECT IT TO THE HOUSE, I IS REALLY KIND OF PUSHING THE ENVELOPE TO ME. UNDERSTOOD. AND, AND WE, WE TOTALLY UNDERSTAND YOUR STANCE ON THAT. AND AGAIN, I MEAN, THANK YOU GUYS. I, I'M JUST GONNA BE HONEST, COMM COMMISSIONER CROSS GROVE, BASED ON THE CONVERSATIONS THAT WE HAD WITH THE WHOLE ENTIRE STAFF, THAT IF SOMEONE, I MEAN, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE MR. SIMMONS, UM, BUT IF SOMEONE ELSE CAME WITH A SIMILAR DESIGN, WITH THE SIMILAR ATTACHMENT, WE WOULD BE RECOMMENDING APPROVAL BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH ATTACHED GARAGES IN NOR HILL. WE, WE NEVER HAVE. AND HONESTLY, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, THERE IS AN ITEM ON HERE THAT HAS THAT, ALTHOUGH IT'S A ONE STORY HOUSE, BUT ITEM ONE HAS AN ATTACHED GARAGE AT 9 0 2 WEST COTTAGE. SO, I MEAN, IT'S, AGAIN, WE'RE LOOKING AT, LOOKING AT THIS THROUGH THE LENS OF THE ORDINANCE, WE UNDERSTAND NOR HILL STANCE. UM, YOU'LL SOON, YOU WILL SOON FIND OUT THAT WE LEFT GARAGES OUT OF THE DESIGN GUIDELINES BECAUSE OF THIS BIG FIGHT THAT WE DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH GARAGES. WE JUST DON'T. AND NOR HILL DEED RESTRICTIONS STATE THAT YOU CANNOT BUILD A TWO STORY GARAGE. AND THAT'S HARD FOR STAFF TO HAVE THAT STANCE. [01:15:02] MR. CHAIR, COULD I ADD ONE MORE COMMENT? THE, THE PLEASE ISSUE OF DEED RESTRICTIONS IN ANY HISTORIC DISTRICT, HONESTLY, IS SOMEWHAT IRRELEVANT TO THE DECISION OF THE COMMISSION. NUMBER ONE, THIS IS ZONING. AND STATE LAW SPECIFICALLY SAYS THAT IF YOU ARE UNDER CHAPTER TWO 11 OF THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE, YOU CANNOT ENFORCE DEED RESTRICTIONS IN ADDITION TO YOUR STANDARDS THAT YOU ADOPT UNDER CHAPTER TWO 11, THE SUPREME COURT OF TEXAS IN 2021, BECAUSE OF A LAWSUIT THAT WAS BROUGHT BY RESIDENTS OF THE HEIGHTS, DETERMINED THAT THIS WAS ZONING AND UNDER THOSE RULES. SO IF THERE ARE VALID DEED RESTRICTIONS IN ANY OF THE DISTRICTS AND THE RESIDENTS OPPOSE SOMETHING THAT THIS COMMISSION APPROVES, IT DOESN'T PUT US THE CITY, ANY OF YOU INDIVIDUALLY AT, AT, YOU KNOW, IN, IN LIABILITY OR IN HARM'S WAY. BUT IT IS A QUESTION OF, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A PRIVATE ENFORCEMENT QUESTION, UNLESS IT IS A TYPE OF QUESTION THAT THE DEED RESTRICTION ENFORCEMENT PROGRAM ENFORCES SEPARATELY HOW THOSE TWO WORK TOGETHER. NOW, WE'VE NOT REALLY HAD TO TEST CHAPTER TWO 11 ZONING AND THE DEED RESTRICTION ENFORCEMENT THAT'S ALLOWED UNDER A DIFFERENT CHAPTER OF A LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE. UM, SO WHETHER OR OR NOT THAT WOULD, BUT, BUT THAT'S OUTSIDE OF THIS COMMISSION, RIGHT? THAT, THAT, THAT ISSUE IS, IT'S OUTSIDE OF THE COMMISSION. AND IN ANY EVENT, THE DEED RESTRICTION ENFORCEMENT TEAM DOES NOT ENFORCE AESTHETIC REGULATIONS. SO THEY WOULDN'T BE LOOKING AT SOME OF THE ELEMENTS THAT, THE VERY ELEMENTS THAT OF COURSE, YOU ALL CONSIDER. I DON'T THINK THOSE ARE AT QUESTION HERE NECESSARILY OTHER THAN SCALE OR MASSING. BUT YEAH, THAT'S, I JUST WANNA MAKE THAT CLEAR BECAUSE DEED RESTRICTIONS KEEP COMING UP AND EVERY TIME WE HAVE SOMETHING FROM NOR HILL, THEY SAY IT VIOLATES OUR DEED RESTRICTIONS. THAT'S A DIFFERENT, THAT, THAT'S OUTSIDE OF Y'ALL'S SCOPE. SO, AND FOR MY COMMISSION MEMBERS, UM, I KNOW THE, THE MAJORITY ARE NEW, BUT THE WAY WE TRY TO RESOLVE SOME OF THESE THINGS IS TO PUT A MOTION ON THE TABLE AND SEE IF THERE'S SUPPORT. AND IF THERE'S NOT SUPPORT, UH, YOU KNOW, THEN WE FIND ANOTHER MOTION. SO IT'S, IT'S, UM, IT'S, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO TEST THE WATERS AND WE WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE GONNA MOVE THIS PROCESS ALONG, UM, ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. SO, GOT GOT ONE MORE QUESTION, PLEASE. I KNOW WE'RE TRYING TO GET AROUND TO THE DRINKING THE VINEGAR, BUT IT'S, IT'S OKAY. WE ONLY HAVE A FEW PROJECTS TODAY, SO IT'S, IT'S A, WE'RE, IT'S, WE HAVE NO PROBLEM. UM, YOU'RE RUNNING THE SHOW. UM, THE REFERENCE PROJECT YOU SHOWED EARLIER, NOT IN NOR HILL, CORRECT? IT IS IN NOR HILL. IT'S A CORNER LOT IN NOR HILL. YEAH. CAN WE, CAN WE PUT THAT BACK UP? PROBABLY EXTERIOR ELEVATIONS. OKAY. SO YOU SAID THAT THEY TORE DOWN THE EXISTING GARAGE AND BUILT THAT. YES, SIR. IN NOR HILL? YES, SIR. I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE 1138 FUGATE. CAN YOU CLARIFY IF THAT'S FOR ITEM THREE OR ITEM FOUR OR BOTH? TO CLARIFY? THAT'S, UH, ITEM B THREE AND B FOUR. OKAY. IS THERE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND THAT. COMMISSIONER GARCIA SECONDS. WOULD YOU GUYS ENTERTAIN A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT TO ACCEPT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION ON ITEM B THREE? SAY THAT AGAIN. SO, B THREE HAD STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION WAS APPROVAL WITH CONDITIONS. SO THOSE CONDI, WHAT ARE THE CONDITIONS AGAIN? THE WINDOW TO CHANGE. INCREASE THE SIZE OF THE WALKWAY WHEN CASEMENT FIXED WINDOW TO FLOOR TO CEILING HEIGHT. I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT STAFF RECOMMENDATION FOR ITEM B THREE AND B FOUR WITH CONDITIONS. COMMISSIONER GARCIA, YOU, YOU SECOND AS WELL. I SECOND. OKAY. IS THERE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION? AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? AYE. C SMITH? OPPOSED? BECK? OPPOSED. BROWNING OPPOSED? COSGROVE OPPOSED? DID YOU GET THOSE? OKAY. FIVE APPROVED. SO FOUR OPPOSED, FIVE OPPOSED. OKAY. CAN I SEE A SHOW OF HANDS? JUST TWO FOR APPROVAL, JUST BECAUSE I CAN COUNT BETTER. [01:20:02] SIX. SIX AND GARCIA'S APPROVING. YEP. SIX IN FAVOR AND FOUR OPPOSED? SO IT PASSES. MOTION PASSES. OKAY. TWO PROJECTS LEFT . UM, WE'LL NOW MOVE ON TO ITEM FIVE. IF Y'ALL DON'T MIND. I JUST GOTTA TAKE A BREATH RIGHT QUICK. I'M SORRY. WHEW. THANK GOODNESS. OKAY, THAT'S ALL I NEEDED. GOOD AFTERNOON CHAIR MEMBERS OF HHC. THIS STAFF PER PERSON, TERRENCE JACKSON, I SUBMIT TO YOU. ITEM B FIVE AT 1807 CROCKETT, THE PROPERTY IS A VACANT, NON-CONTRIBUTING 5,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT INTERIOR LOT LOCATED IN THE HIGH FIRST WARD. HISTORIC DISTRICT. THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING A NEW CONSTRUCTION OF A TWO STORY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE. THE NEW TWO STORY, 3,313 SQUARE FOOT SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE, UH, WILL HAVE THE FOLLOWING SPECIFICATIONS, A 29 FEET, 99 INCH MAXIMUM RIDGE HEIGHT, AND A 17 FEET FIVE INCH AND 22 FEET, FOUR INCH SECONDARY RIDGE HEIGHTS WITH SIDE FACING SHED ROOFS. THE PROPOSED ROOF PITCHES ARE, ARE THREE OVER 12 SHOULD BE, IT WILL BE CONSTRUCTED WITH A STANDING SEA METAL ROOF. THE FIRST FLOOR HAS A 11 FOOT, UH, TOP PLATE WITH A 10 FOOT SECOND FLOOR TOP PLATE. THE FRONT FRONT PORCH FEATURING A SHED ROOF, A MODERN FRONT DOOR FEATURING HALF LENGTH SINGLE LIGHT WITH WOOD PANELING SURROUNDING THE GLASS. UM, AND IT FEATURES A VARIETY OF CASEMENT AND FIXED GLASS WINDOWS ON ALL ELEVATIONS. ON A CONCRETE SLAB ON GRADE FOUNDATION, WITH A FINISHED FLOOR HEIGHT OF APPROXIMATELY SIX INCHES, WE'LL HAVE A FRONT FACING GARAGE AT THE FRONT OF THE PROPERTY, AND IT'S TO BE CLAD AND BOARD AND BATTEN VERTICAL SIDING. THE PROPOSED DESIGN DOES NOT MEET THE NEW CONSTRUCTION CRITERIA IN THE, IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT. ALTHOUGH THE DESIGN MATCHES THE DESIGN NEXT DOOR, THE PROPOSED SCALE PROPORTIONS, ROOF, EXTERIOR FEATURES, WINDOWS, DOORS, AND ET CETERA, ARE NOT COMPATIBLE WITH EXTERIOR FEATURES OF CONTRIBUTING HOMES IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT. THE GARAGE'S FRONT FACING, WHILE NEW CONSTRUCTION WITHIN THE DISTRICT HAS PREVIOUSLY MET THAT STANDARD. THIS PROPOSAL HAS A DESIGN WITH THE FRONT FACING GARAGE AND FIXED WINDOWS THAT DIFFER FROM WHAT A TYPICALLY CONSIDERED COMPAT, WHAT WOULD BE TYPICALLY CONSIDERED COMPATIBLE IN HIGH FIRST WARD HISTORIC DISTRICT AS IT RELATES TO THE STRUCTURES NEXT DOOR. THE HOME WAS BUILT PRIOR TO THE CREATION OF THE DISTRICT, THEREFORE, THERE WILL BE NO RECORD OF A COA. THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE SLASH CARPORT, HOWEVER, WAS APPROVED ADMINISTRATIVELY IN OUR OFFICE BECAUSE THE PROJECT WAS BELOW 600 SQUARE FEET. AND ITS, AND ITS PROPOSED LOCATION BEHIND THE HOUSE IS VERY LITTLE WITH VERY LITTLE VIEW FROM THE STREET. STAFF RECOMMENDS DENIAL OF THE PROPOSED TWO-STORY HOME AS IT DOES NOT MEET THE CRITERIA FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT CHAIR. MEMBERS OF THE HHSC ARE AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS. THE AGENT IS HERE FOR QUESTIONS AND WOULD LIKE TO ASK IF A DENIAL IS BEING CONSIDERED, THAT THEY BE GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO DEFER AND WORK WITH STAFF FOR SOLUTIONS. THIS CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION. THANK YOU, TERRANCE. AT THIS TIME, I'LL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING. UH, I DO HAVE CHAD CREECH SIGNED UP TO SPEAK, OR AT LEAST TO ANSWER QUESTIONS IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK OR ADDRESS THE COMMISSION. YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE THAT, UM, ABILITY NOW TO DO SO. AND IF YOU COULD RESTATE YOUR NAME IN THE MICROPHONE FOR THE RECORD. UH, . I'M NOT . HOW Y'ALL DOING? I'M CHAD CREECH. I'M PRESIDENT OF, UH, HX TINY HOMES. UM, OUR CLIENT CAME TO US, THEY, UH, HAD THAT PROPERTY AT 1813 CROCKETT, WHICH WAS, UH, BUILT PRIOR TO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT BEING CREATED. UM, WE BUILT THEM A, UH, A STUDIO BEHIND THAT MATCHES THE, UH, UH, PRIMARY AT 18. OH, AT 1813, WHICH WE RENOVATED, UH, MADE IT LOOK REAL NICE. UM, THE PROPOSED AT 1807 IS IN KIND AND LIKENESS TO THE 1813 PROPERTY. UM, WE THINK IT ADDS VALUE TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. IF YOU LOOK AROUND, UH, EVERY, UH, PROPERTY NEXT DOOR BEHIND, ACROSS THE STREET, IT'S A BUNCH OF, UH, TOWN HOMES AND, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE PUTTING IN A, A NICE HIGH-END HOME AND WE THINK THAT IT ADDS VALUE. THAT'S ALL I GOT. THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? OKAY, THANK YOU. YEP. THANK YOU. IF THERE'S ANYONE ELSE TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM MAY KNOW THERE'S VERY FEW PEOPLE LEFT. SO, UM, I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AT THIS TIME. UM, IS THERE QUESTIONS [01:25:01] OF STAFF, MR. COS COSGROVE, DID YOU MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS TO HOW YOU THOUGHT THEY COULD IMPROVE THE DESIGN TO BE MORE COMPATIBLE WITH THE, THE DESIGN GUIDELINES AND THE, AND AND YOUR INTERPRETATION? YEAH, SO, UM, I MET WITH, UM, MR. CREECH AND, UH, I BELIEVE THE, UH, DESIGNER OF THE HOME. AND WE HAD DISCUSSIONS ABOUT IT. AND, UM, I THINK IN THAT MOMENT, BECAUSE THEIR FIRST TIME COMING TO COMMISSION, IT WENT STRAIGHT TO AA. THEY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND HOW THIS WORKED. UM, THEY DID SUBMIT A REDESIGN TO ME YESTERDAY, BUT I MEAN, I CAN'T, YOU KNOW, WITH PUBLIC REVIEW AND EVERYTHING. SO, UM, WE HAVE HAD CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THAT. YES, IN THAT MOMENT THEY DID NOT WANT TO MAKE ANY CHANGES BECAUSE I EXPLAINED TO THEM, YOU CAN TAKE THIS TO COMMISSION AND WE CAN, YOU KNOW, WORK ON IF YOU GET A DEFERRAL OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE. SO YES, WE DID HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS, UM, IN THAT MOMENT THEY DID NOT WANNA MAKE CHANGES, BUT THEY CAME BACK WITH SOME CHANGES THAT WERE GONNA, IF THIS IS NOT APPROVED AND IS DEFERRED, WE WILL WORK TO WORK ON THAT DESIGN TO GET IT TO BE MORE COMPATIBLE. SO GIVEN THAT CONTEXT, I'LL MAKE A MOTION, UH, TO DEFER. IS THERE A SECOND JOAN? SECONDS? UH, ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTIONS? THAT MOTION PASSES. WE'LL MOVE ON TO ITEM SIX. GOOD AFTERNOON CHAIR AND MEMBERS OF THE HHC. THIS IS STAFF PERSON TERRENCE JACKSON. I SUBMIT TO YOU ITEM B SIX AT 1208 COURTLAND. THE PROPERTY INCLUDES THE CONTRIBUTING TWO STORY WOOD FRAME, 2,902 SQUARE FOOT SINGLE FAMILY HOUSE ON A 6,600 SQUARE FOOT LOT. THE CONTRIBUTING MODIFIED L PLAN QUEEN ANN WAS CONSTRUCTED CIRCA 1915, LOCATED IN THE HU LOCATED IN THE HOUSTON HEIGHTS HISTORIC DISTRICT. THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING TO REMOVE THE EXISTING SIDING AND INSTALL SMOOTH CEMENTITIOUS SIDING APPROVE COA HP 2025 DASH 0 0 2 1. SCOPE OF WORK WAS EXCEEDED DURING CONSTRUCTION. STAFF RECEIVED A THREE ONE CALL DURING CONSTRUCTION OF, OF A PROJECT EXCEEDING SCOPE OF WORK BY REMOVING ALL THE WOOD SIDING FROM THE CONTRIBUTING HOME. THIS PROJECT IS HERE BECAUSE OF THE ORIGINAL COA APPROVED. THE HA APPROVED BY THE HASC DID NOT INCLUDE A WHOLESALE REMOVAL OF SIDING, NOR DOES A GENERAL NOTE TO REMOVE THE REUSE OF SIDING AS NEEDED. MEAN THAT IT HAS MEAN THAT IT HAS NEVER MEANT THAT WHAT THAT GENERAL NOTE MEANS IN OUR OFFICE IS REMOVE AND REPLACE WITH MATCHING WOOD SIDING AS NEEDED. HERE'S THE LANGUAGE INCLUDED WITH THIS. WITH AN APPROVED, ANY APPROVED COA, ALL MATERIALS AND EXTERIOR WALLS, INCLUDING WINDOWS, SIDING, FRAMING, LUMBER, AND EXTERIOR SHIPLAP MUST BE RETAINED EXCEPT WHERE REMOVAL OR REPLACEMENT HAS BEEN EXPLICITLY APPROVED BY THE HAHC. THAT STATEMENT ALSO GOES ON TO SAY, MAINTENANCE AND MINOR IN CON REPAIRS OF EXTERIOR MATERIALS MAY BE UNDERTAKEN WITHOUT HHC APPROVAL, BUT IF EXTENSIVE DAMAGE OF ANY EXTERIOR WALL ELEMENT IS ENCOUNTERED DURING CONSTRUCTION CONTACT STAFF BEFORE REMOVING OR REPLACING THE TER MATERIALS, A REVISED COA MAY REQUIRED STAFF RECOMMENDS DENIAL OF CO UH, DENIAL OF COA ISSUANCE OF COR FOR WORK PERFORMED OUTSIDE OF SCOPE AND REQUIRES THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALL WOOD, WOOD SIDING IN PLACE OF CEMENT TISSUE SIDING ON THE CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE. THE SIEMENS TISSUE SIDING CAN REMAIN ON THE ADDITION APPROVED BY THE HHC ON FEBRUARY 27TH. THIS CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION. SORRY. THANK YOU, TERRENCE. I DO HAVE A SECRET SIGNED UP FOR THIS, AND SO I'LL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AND, UH, SAM, UH, NUAS IS HERE TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION. IF YOU CAN RESTATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD. THANK YOU. UH, SAM NUAS CREOLE DESIGNED, UM, THIS HOUSE WAS A REALLY TOUGH HOUSE. IT HAD TWO BY EIGHT FLOOR JOISTS IN THE CRAWL SPACE. IT HAD TWO BY EIGHT FLOOR JOISTS BETWEEN THE FIRST AND SECOND FLOOR. IT HAD FOUR OR FIVE DIFFERENT TYPES OF SIDING ON IT. AND YOU CAN SEE FROM THE PICTURES THAT, UH, IT HAD EVERYTHING FROM MASON DOCUMENT, CAMERA PLEASE TO, UM, HERE, UM, TO ONE BY TWELVES TO, I MEAN, [01:30:01] IT WAS A MESS. UM, LEMME SHOW THIS ONE. AND I HAD MANY VISITS WITH THE STAFF THERE, UH, ROMAN PARTICULARLY. AND WE EVEN VISITED, UH, I THINK HE WAS THERE FOUR OR FIVE TIMES WHEN WE DEMOED THE INTERIOR OF THIS HOUSE, WE REALIZED WE HAD THE PROBLEM WITH THE TWO BY EIGHTS AND, AND BETWEEN THE FLOOR JOISTS AND, AND THE SIDING WE DISCUSSED ALL, EVERY TIME, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS SO MUCH DIFFERENT SIDING HERE. I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GONNA SURVIVE, WHAT'S NOT GONNA SURVIVE TO TAKE IT BACK TO THE ORIGINAL. SO ON OUR PRESENTATION, UH, AND, AND, AND LET ME TALK ABOUT PROCESS. NORMALLY WHEN WE SUBMIT TO HISTORICAL A SET OF PLANS, UH, ON, ON THE DEADLINE, TWO WEEKS GOES BY AND THEN WE COME BACK AND WE MEET WITH THE STAFF AND WE REVISE THAT WITH THE STAFF. YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T LIKE THIS OR THEY DO LIKE THAT, OR MOVE THIS OR MOVE THAT. AND SO WE MAKE ADJUSTMENTS TO THAT PLAN. SO YES, WE, OUR INITIAL SUBMITTAL DID NOT ADDRESS THE SITING, BUT OUR FINAL SUBMITTAL BEFORE THE COMMISSION HEARING DID IN FACT ADDRESS THE, THE FACT THAT THE SITING WAS VERY, VERY QUESTIONABLE. AND, AND IT SAID, UM, WHERE IS IT? IT SAID ON, ON THE, LET ME SEE, MAKE SURE I HAVE THE RIGHT ONE HERE. SO, BECAUSE THE SIDING WAS QUESTIONABLE, BECAUSE WE'D MET OUT THERE ABOUT THE SIDING, WE, WE PUT THESE NOTES ON THE DRAWINGS HERE, AND YOU SEE I, AND I DID IT BOLD . I DID IT BOLD ON PURPOSE BECAUSE I KNEW THAT WE HAD A PROBLEM WITH THE SIDING AND I KNEW WE WERE GONNA HAVE TO ADDRESS THIS SIDING. AND, AND, AND SO IT WAS ON THE DRAWING AND IT WAS IN THE TRACKER WHEN, WHEN WE WENT TO PERMIT THAT NOTE WAS ON THE DRAWING OR PERMITTED DRAWINGS, WHICH GOT SEALED ALSO. AND SO THE, THE CONTRACTOR'S NOT WORKING WITH THE C OF A IN THE FIELD. THE CONTRACTOR WORKS WITH A SET OF PLANS. AND SO THE CONTRACTOR'S LOOKING AT A SET OF PLANS. HE NOT GOING BACK OVER HERE AND LOOKING AT THE C OF A AND GOING, WELL, HOW, HOW CAN I FIGURE OUT WHAT'S IN HERE? I CAN'T FIGURE OUT WHAT'S IN HERE HALF THE TIME. AND IF YOU LOOK AT YOUR C OF A ON THIS, ALL OF THE DIMENSIONS ARE CROPPED OUT ALL IN ORDER TO FIT IT ON AN EIGHT AND A HALF, UH, BY 11 PAGE. SO A LOT OF THE NOTES THAT ARE IMPORTANT FOR FINAL PERMITTING ARE, ARE, ARE DELETED FROM THIS. UM, MOVE FOR ADDITIONAL TWO MINUTES. IS THERE A SECOND? JOAN? SECONDS. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. PLEASE PROCEED. SAM, ON OUR SUBMITTAL, WE, WE, WE ADDRESSED THE FACT THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO REMOVE THE SIGHTING AND WE'RE GONNA HAVE, WE, WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TO REPLACE IT. MATTER OF FACT, THE, THE, UH, REMAINING SIGNEES IN THE GARAGE, THERE'S NOT ENOUGH TO DO A THIRD OF ONE, UH, ANOTHER SIDE OF THAT. AND SO WE, WE ADDRESSED THAT ON THE FORM THAT WE FILLED OUT INITIALLY. ALSO SAYING THAT THIS IS GOING TO, WE'RE, WE KNOW THIS IS COMING DOWN THE TRACKS. SO THE CONTRACTOR WAS WORKING AWAY AND GOT THE SIDING UP. HERE'S THE NEW SIDING ON THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE. HERE'S THE HARDY PLANK ON THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE. SAM, WHEN YOU SAID NEW, YOU MEANT THE EX REUSED EXISTING SIDING ON THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, REUSE, RE EXISTING SIDING ON THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE. AND WE HAVE JUST A LITTLE BIT LEFT. WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH LEFT TO REALLY DO EVEN ONE FULL SIDE. SO HERE IS THE, THE SIDING PAINTED OR PRIMED, UH, WITH THE HARDY ON THE SIDE. HERE'S THE CLOSEUP OF IT, WHICH I, I YOU CAN'T TELL YOU, YOU CAN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE HARDY AND THE EXISTING SIDING THAT WAS THERE. AND, AND SO I FEEL LIKE NEW WOOD IS NOT AN OPTION. THE, THE YOUNG WOOD OR THE, THE, UH, NEW GROWTH WOOD ROTS SO FAST. I DID A HOUSE ON BAIN FOR BILL BALDWIN'S HOUSE. Y'ALL MAY KNOW IT. I DID THIS HOUSE AND THIS HOUSE WAS CYPRUS SIGHTING. WE HAD SE SPECIAL CYPRESS SIDING MILL. IT WAS LIKE A ONE 17 TYPE OF SIDING, BUT IT HAD A SHARP EDGE TO IT. IT WAS VERY DIFFERENT. SO WE HAD IT MILLED FROM, CAN I KEEP GOING? ? I, I DO NEED A MOTION, I GUESS MO MOTION TO ALLOW THE SPEAKER TO CONTINUE FOR ONE MINUTE. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. THANK YOU. ALL IN FAVOR. OKAY. THANK YOU. AYE. AND SO WE MILLED SPECIAL SIDING FROM MASON MILLWORKS CYPRESS SIGHTING FOR THIS PARTICULAR HOUSE. 'CAUSE WE WERE, WE CARED ABOUT KEEPING IT ORIGINAL. IT WAS A VERY UNUSUAL SIGHTING. WITHIN SIX TO EIGHT MONTHS THAT NEW CYPRESS WAS ROTTING AND BILL WAS OVER THERE HAVING TO REP [01:35:01] PATCH HIS NEW HOUSE, WHAT LOOKS LIKE A NEW HOUSE NOW. AND SO IT, IT, I'M NOT GONNA PUT PINE SIDING BACK ON THIS HOUSE. YES, I CAN GO TO MADO AND BUY IT. IT'S NOT GONNA, IT'S NOT GONNA MATCH ANY BETTER THAN THE HARDY PLANK. AND IT'S GONNA ROT, IT'S GONNA BE A MAINTENANCE PROBLEM. IF YOU GO TO THE, TO THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICES, UH, WHICH IS THIS, UH, WEBSITE, WHICH IS THE BIBLE FOR ALL THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION STUFF, YOU, YOU'LL SEE THAT IT SAYS CLEARLY THAT HISTORIC FEATURES AND SUBSTITUTE MATERIALS FOR, FOR SITING FIBER CEMENT SIDING IS APPROVED BY THEM. THEY, THEY ACTUALLY RECOMMEND IT BECAUSE THEY HAVE A WHOLE SECTION WHERE THEY TALK ABOUT NEW GROWTH THERE, NEW GROWTH WOOD OPPOSED TO THE OLD GROWTH WOOD. AND SO NOBODY'S TRYING TO GET AWAY WITH ANYTHING HERE OTHER THAN BUILD A REALLY NICE HOUSE. AND, AND, UH, THIS, THIS CONTRACTOR HAS GONE THE EXTRA MILE. IF YOU GO LOOK AT THE WOOD, IT'S INSIDE THIS HOUSE. THERE'S VERY LITTLE OF THE ORIGINAL HOUSE THAT IS STRUCTURALLY SOUND. THE, THE RAFTERS WERE 42 INCHES ON CENTER, TWO BY FOUR RAFTERS. I CAN'T BELIEVE IT WAS EVEN STANDING UP. UM, AND SO WHAT WE, WHAT WE DID WAS TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAD ALL THE NOTES ON THE DRAWING THAT WE NEEDED TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEN WE GOT TO THE POINT AND WE'RE DEALING WITH A SIGHTING THAT WE WERE COVERED AND, AND THE GO BACK TO THIS PICTURE. AND I THINK THAT'S A, THAT'S A REALLY GOOD MATCH OF, OF, OF, OF CYP, I MEAN, OF, OF OLD PINE. AND, AND I HAVE A PIECE OF IT IN MY BRIEFCASE ACTUALLY, IF YOU'D LIKE TO SEE IT. BUT, UH, I, I JUST, IT WASN'T INTENTIONAL. THIS IS THE FIRST TIME IN ALL THE YEARS THAT I'VE HAD A C OF R I'VE NEVER HAD A C OF R BEFORE, SO I WAS LIKE, WHAT'S THE C OF R? AND SO I JUST, I DON'T, NOBODY DID ANYTHING INTENTIONAL AND IT'S A BETTER PRODUCT THAN, THAN YOU'RE GONNA GET FROM PINE SIGHTING. THANK YOU SAM. UH, ANY QUESTIONS OF THE SPEAKER? SO SAM, I SAW IN YOUR NOTES THAT YOU SAID YOU'RE GOING TO REPLACE WOOD WITH WOOD. NO, IT DIDN'T SAID I WOULD, I WOULD PUT, I WOULD REPLACE. WHAT DID IT SAY EXACTLY? ON THE LITTLE, UH, NO. OH, YOU'VE GOT OVER THERE THAT DRAWING LITTLE SQUARE THAT YOU HAD WITH MATERIALS, IT SAYS, UH, NO, NOT THAT ONE. ORIGINAL SIDING REUSE AS NEEDED. WHAT'S THE OTHER ONE THAT YOU PUT UP THAT SAID WOOD ON IT? OH, IT ALL WENT THAT DIRECTION. ALL WENT THAT WAY? YEAH. YEAH. NOW THIS IS IDENTIFYING THE SIDING THAT'S THERE IS WOOD. WOOD. OH, I SEE. THEN FIBER CEMENT, WE'RE GONNA USE FIBER PROPOSED IS FIBER CEMENT. OKAY. AND IT'S FIVE AND A HALF INCH. AND WE SAID SIX INCHES, WOOD INCHES. IT REALLY WAS BETWEEN FOUR AND SIX. I MEAN, THERE WERE SO MANY DIFFERENT SIZES. MM-HMM . UH, I MEAN, I, I STILL HAVE IT IN THE GARAGE. WHAT LEFT? WHAT'S LEFT OF IT IF YOU WANNA SEE IT? I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF. UH, THERE'S A PICTURE THAT WHEN SAM FIRST STARTED SPEAKING, THERE WAS A SIDE VIEW OF THE EXISTING HOUSE IS, CAN BE PUT BACK UP FOR A SECOND. AND I JUST, MY QUESTION, SAM, FOR THIS IMAGE THAT'S ON THE SCREEN CURRENTLY IS THAT YOU MENTIONED THERE ARE DIFFERENT SIGHTING TYPES ON THE HOUSE. IT APPEARED TO ME THERE LOOKED LIKE TWO DIFFERENT ADDITIONS, LIKE THOSE VERTICAL LINES. AND IT, IT APPEARED TO ME THAT THE EAVES, UM, I CAN SEE LINES IN THE EAVES WHERE, UH, WHAT WHAT IS ORIGINAL IS LIKE MOUNT ONE SIDE AND WHAT IS APPEARS TO BE AN ADDITION. SO IS THAT THE DIFFERENT SIDING? WAS IT ON THE ADDITIONS, LIKE THE REAR ADDITIONS? IT WAS ALL OVER THE PLACE. I'LL SHOW YOU THIS. THIS IS, UH, HALF OF ONE SIDE WAS MASONITE SIDING. YOU CAN SEE THE, THE LOWER PART WAS THE OLD MASONITE SIGHTING THAT USED TO USE. SO HALF OF ONE SIDE WAS MASONITE A, A GOOD WAYS. AND SO IT, IT, IT'S, IT'S, AND, AND THIS IS ANOTHER GOOD SHOT. THIS, THIS SHOWS YOU, YOU SEE SOME OF THIS IS FOUR INCH, SOME OF THIS IS SIX INCH, SOME OF THIS IS 12 INCH. IT WAS JUST A MESS. AND IF YOU GO LOOK AT THAT HOUSE NOW, IT LOOKS FANTASTIC. I MEAN, IT'S STANDING UP STRONG, IT'S SQUARED UP. AND, AND THE BUILDER IS DOING AN ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL JOB. AND I THINK COSGROVES LIVES RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET, . SO Y'ALL, Y'ALL ASK HIM BECAUSE IT LOOKS GOOD. WE, WE CAN'T ASK HIM BECAUSE HE HAS TO RECUSE HIMSELF FOR PROXIMITY REASON. WELL, I'M GONNA ASK YOU A ACTUALLY, I, UM, COMMISSIONER ESCOBAR, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS. UM, ESPECIALLY THOSE WITH AN ARCHITECTURAL BACKGROUND. UM, SUBSTITUTING WOOD, UM, OUT IS SOMETHING I'M PRETTY SENSITIVE TO. UM, I ALSO AM PRETTY SENSITIVE TO SUSTAINABILITY AND RESILIENCY OF HISTORIC STRUCTURES. UM, AND SO WHEN IT COMES TO THE MATERIAL SCIENCE [01:40:01] OF THINGS AND WHAT'S BEEN APPROVED PREVIOUSLY, UM, FOR HISTORIC HOMES THAT ARE FACING THAT SAME BACK TO PRESENTATION MODE, UM, SO THAT WASN'T IN MY HEAD, FACING, FACING THE SAME SITUATION. WHAT HAS BEEN THE, THE PATTERN OF REPLACEMENT OF WOOD WITH HARDY PLANK, HOW HAS THAT, UM, SURVIVED OVER TIME? AND DO YOU SEE THAT AS SOMETHING THAT NEGATIVELY IMPACTS THE INTENTION AND AUTHENTICITY OF THE STRUCTURE, BUT ALLOWS IT TO STAY AROUND A A BIT LONGER WITHOUT HAVING TO BE MODIFIED AGAIN? AND THAT'S LIKE THREE QUESTIONS IN ONE, BUT I THINK YOU KNOW WHERE I'M GETTING AT . SURE. UH, I'LL TRY TO BE AS CLEAR AS MUD. OKAY. UM, THE BEFORE US IS PARTLY IS THAT PART OF OUR ORDINANCE ALLOWS, LIKE IF THINGS ARE VERY DETERIORATED, LIKE YOU CAN REPAIR EVEN WITHOUT A C OF A, BUT IF IT'S REALLY DETERIORATED, WE HAVE HAD, UH, NOT A LOT, BUT WE HAVE HAD PROJECTS WHERE APPROVAL WAS TO, UH, WAS WAS GOING TO REPLACE SIDING WITH HARDY SIDING. IF, IF THE SIDING WAS REALLY, THE MAJORITY OVER 50%, LET'S SAY, WAS REALLY ROTTEN AND IN A BAD, BAD WAY. UM, THE ORIGINAL WOOD IS GENERALLY FAR SUPERIOR, EVEN TO HARDY BOARD. THAT IS, IT'S ALMOST LIKE CONCRETE AND, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S, SO IT'S, UM, YOU CAN STILL BUY SOME SALVAGE WOOD AS WELL. AND WHEN YOU USE NEWER WOODS, UM, THERE ARE SOME WOODS THAT ARE, UM, PERFORM VERY WELL, LIKE SPANISH CEDAR, WHICH IS, UH, AN EXOTIC WOOD. IT DOES COST MORE, BUT IT'S KIND OF LIKE, UH, MAHOGANY, IT'S LIGHTER IN WEIGHT, TAKES PAINT, WILL NOT ROT AND TERMITES WILL NOT EAT IT. UM, NOT EVERYONE CAN AFFORD SPANISH CEDAR FOR THEIR HOMES. UH, WHAT IS RECOMMENDED AND WHAT WHAT STAFF WILL WILL LET ANY APPLICANT KNOW IS THAT WHEN YOU USE WOOD, IT MAY NOT BE, UM, UH, FIRST GROWTH. UM, BUT IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THAT WOOD TO SURVIVE. IT HAS TO BE PRIMED ALL FOUR SIDES, EVEN THE CUT INS. AND IT NEEDS AN AIRSPACE BEHIND THE WOOD OF AT LEAST EIGHTH OF AN INCH TO DRY OUT. SO, YOU KNOW, WOOD, IT GETS WET. IF WOOD DRIES OUT, IT TENDS TO LAST A LOT LONGER. IF YOU JUST PUT RAW PINE UP AGAINST THE, THE, THE MOISTURE BARRIER, IT WILL ROT. UM, SO THERE ARE WAYS OF USING WOOD. AND TYPICALLY, I GUESS I THINK WHY THIS IS UP BEFORE US IS THAT THE, THE, THE REPLACEMENT WAS NOT DISCUSSED AMONGST THIS, THE, THE BO THIS BODY. AND TYPICALLY WHAT HAPPENS IS, UM, THERE'LL BE PICTURES SHOWING ROT, FOR INSTANCE, IN THIS CASE, WE'RE, WE'RE SEEING IMAGES OF MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF MATERIALS. I DON'T KNOW WHO ON STAFF HAS SEEN THE WOOD IN THE GARAGE, FOR INSTANCE. I DON'T KNOW WHAT, ROMO'S NOT HERE. I DON'T KNOW WHETHER PETE WAS, IS EVER ON THE, ON THE SITE AS WELL. SO I THINK IT'S HERE BEFORE IT'S BECAUSE WE DIDN'T DISCUSS IN WITHIN THIS BODY WHOLESALE REMOVING SIDING. UM, WE HAVE TRIED TO KEEP THE ORIGINAL SIDING ON THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, WHICH IS WHAT WAS DONE BY THE APPLICANT. AND THAT, THAT'S SORT OF HOW WE GOT TO WHERE WE WE'RE GOT TO. SO WE'RE, WE'RE JUST, WE'RE BRINGING THIS, I THINK STAFF IS BRINGING THIS TO THE COMMISSION BECAUSE IT HAS OCCURRED. UM, COMMISSIONER COSGROVE HAS TO RECUSE HIMSELF BECAUSE HE LIVES ACROSS THE STREET AND THEREFORE HE CANNOT ENGAGE WITH THIS PROJECT, UH, IN THAT, IN THAT REGARD. YASMIN, PLEASE, I'M SORRY, MAY I ADD, UH, SOMETHING? SO I JUST WANTED TO SPEAK AS IN INTERIM PRESERVATION OFFICER THAT IT IS HERE BECAUSE IT EXCEEDED THE SCOPE OF WORK. AND I'LL, I'LL EXPLAIN. UM, THE REPLACEMENT OF THE SIDING WAS NOT WITHIN THE C OF A, I UNDERSTAND. HE SAYS THAT THE FINAL DRAWINGS HAD THAT, UM, THE PLANNER WHO WORKED ON THIS WAS NOT HERE ANYMORE, SO IS NOT HERE ANYMORE. SO I CAN'T ASK THEM. BUT FROM WHAT WE SAW, THAT WASN'T SHOWN. NOW, THE DRAWINGS THAT WERE STAMPED SAID REPLACEMENT AS NEEDED, I BELIEVE, AND I'LL LET TERRANCE TALK ABOUT THAT. UM, IT DID NOT SAY HARDY SIDING. SO EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE STAMPED, THEY DID NOT SAY HARDY SIDING. I ALSO WANT TO, UM, LET YOU KNOW THAT WE HAVE PETE HERE WHO HAS BEEN A HISTORIC INSPECTOR FOR A LONG TIME, AND HE CAN ANSWER A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT WOOD SIDING. AND HE, HE ALSO WENT ON THE SITE VISIT AND THEN I'LL LET, UM, TERRANCE TALK AS THIS, THIS IS HIS APPLICATION AND HE COULDN'T GO THROUGH THE DATES AND SO ON. SO WE DO APPROVE REPLACEMENT OF SIDING THAT IS BEYOND REPAIR OR THAT IS MISMATCHING, OR IT'S NOT THE SAME. IT'S NOT LIKE WE DON'T APPROVE IT. IT WAS JUST NOT PART OF THE SCOPE OF WORK FOR THE INITIAL CFA. UM, PETE, MAY YOU GOOD AFTERNOON COMMISSIONERS. UH, MY NAME IS [01:45:01] PETE STOCKTON. I'M HERE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS IF YOU HAVE ANY, UM, UH, DAVID, UM, HIT THE, UH, MATERIAL SCIENCE PART OF IT. UM, UH, I DON'T REALLY HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD OTHER THAN, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU DO THOSE THINGS, IT WORKS. AND WHEN YOU DON'T DO THOSE THINGS, IT DOESN'T, UM, HOW CAN I BE OF ASSISTANCE? PETE, WERE YOU ON SITE ON AT ANY TIME IN THIS PROJECT? I DID. I GOT A, I GOT A CALL AND UM, UH, I WENT AND LOOKED AND I WAS MORTIFIED AND THEN I FOUND OUT THAT THERE WAS ACTUALLY A STORY THAT WENT WITH THAT. AND THEN, UM, UH, I, UH, WAS HURT BECAUSE NOBODY TALKED TO ME FIRST. AND, UH, I GOT OVER THAT. SO, UM, UH, WHERE I LEFT IT WITH THE BUILDER WAS, UM, TOMORROW MORNING YOU'RE GONNA CALL ME AND YOU'RE GONNA TELL ME HOW YOU GUYS WORKED THIS OUT WITH THE PRESERVATION OFFICE. AND, UM, I'M, I'M INTERESTED AND, UH, SO WE'RE ALL HERE, CERTAINLY, AND AS A SIDE, I JUST WANNA SAY HAVING, UH, WORKED WITH PETE, UM, IF ANY APP FOR THE, FOR THE PUBLIC RECORD. SO IF ANYONE LISTENING IN, IF YOU ARE WALKING ON A PROJECT, YOU FIND A BUNCH OF ROTTEN MATERIAL OR YOU FIND SOMETHING, YOU OPEN IT UP. YOU KNOW, I HIGHLY, HIGHLY RECOMMEND CALLING STAFF AND CALLING PETE TO COME AND LOOK AT IT AND ADVISE YOU WHAT TO DO BECAUSE, UM, BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO, YOU KNOW, TO ADVISE HOW TO, HOW TO PROCEED IN, IN, IN THOSE CASES. AND IT ALWAYS HELPS WHEN HE DOES GET THAT CALL BEFORE THINGS ARE REMOVED. UM, IT, IT MAKES A LOT, WE, WE, WE DON'T FIND OURSELVES AT THIS, AT THIS CROSSROADS. I'LL, I'LL PUT IT THAT WAY. UM, BUT WE, BUT THINGS ARE FOUND SOMETIMES WHEN YOU OPEN THINGS UP AND REVEAL THEMSELVES. ABSOLUTELY. YEP. I HAVE A QUESTION FOR PETE OR STAFF. LIKE WHEN YOU, I KNOW THAT FOLKS THAT WENT OUT AND SAW THIS HOUSE IN THE BEGINNING ARE NOT HERE ANYMORE, BUT BASED ON NOTES OR THINGS THAT ARE LEFT, HOW MUCH ORIGINAL SIGHTING WAS ACTUALLY ON THIS HOUSE? CLEARLY THE NEW ADDITIONS DON'T HAVE ANYTHING, BUT DID YOU GUYS, DO YOU HAVE ANY OBSERVATIONS LIKE ON THE OTHER TWO VISIBLE FROM ROAD FACES, PARTS OF THESE HOUSES OR THIS HOUSE THAT WAS LEFT? UM, HONESTLY, UM, THIS WAS HANDLED BY SOMEONE THAT'S NO LONGER WITH US. YEAH. AND, UM, WHEN I WENT TO THE SITE, YOU'LL SEE THE, IN THE PHOTOS, I JUST TOOK PICTURES OF THE SIDING THAT WAS ON THE GROUND, UM MM-HMM . I DID NOT GO THROUGH IT TO SEE WHAT WAS ORIGINAL, WHAT WASN'T. UM, SO I REALLY DON'T, I REALLY DON'T HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE ON THAT. UM, I MEAN, I'M SORRY, I JUST DON'T NO, THAT'S OKAY. YEAH. QUESTION FOR STAFF. SO THE, THE APPROVAL LANGUAGE THAT COMES ALONG WITH THE, WITH EVERY COA MAKES IT PRETTY CLEAR THAT FOR JUST THIS KIND OF SITUATION WHERE THERE'S MISUNDERSTANDINGS OR, UH, THE BUILDER MIGHT BE LEARNING MORE ABOUT THE STRUCTURE AS THEY GO THROUGH THE PROCESS, CONTACT THE HAHC STAFF. CORRECT. SO MY QUESTION IS, WERE YOU CONTACTED, WAS, WAS THE STAFF EVER CONTACTED DURING THE PROCESS OR DID THE, 'CAUSE MY UNDERSTANDING FROM READING THE MATERIALS TODAY IS THAT STAFF FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS FROM A 3 1 1 CALL. SO THAT SUGGESTS THAT YOU WERE NOT, BUT I WANT TO BE CLEAR. THAT IS CORRECT. WE WERE NOT CONTACTED UNTIL WE RECEIVED A 3 1 3 1 1 CALL. I MYSELF WENT OUT THERE AND I CALLED PETE AND, UH, I, I MADE IT FIRST, AND I THINK PETE ARRIVED AFTER I, I HAD ALREADY LEFT AND GOT PHOTOS, BUT NO, WE WERE NOT CONTACTED DURING. OKAY. AND THEN BY MY COUNT, WHEN I WENT THROUGH THE, THE ORIGINAL COA, I THINK I COUNTED LIKE SEVEN DIFFERENT PLACES WHERE IT MADE CLEAR THE SIDING NEEDED TO BE WOOD, EITHER, UH, REUSE OR REPLACE, I THINK I COUNTED SEVEN DIFFERENT PLACES. IS THAT, DOES THAT SOUND RIGHT? UM, THE ORIGINAL COAI, I'M JUST GONNA BE HONEST, I I, I WENT TO THE DRAWINGS THAT WERE SUBMITTED ON FEBRUARY 12TH THAT ARE IN PRESERVATION TRACKER BECAUSE WHAT WAS SUBMITTED FOR THIS APPLICATION FOR THE COR STATED THAT WHAT WAS SUBMITTED ON THE 12TH INCLUDED THOSE NOTES. UM, WHEN I WENT TO PRESERVATION TRACKER, THE DRAWINGS THAT WERE UPLOADED AND DATED BY THE SYSTEM ON FEBRUARY 12TH DID NOT INCLUDE THOSE NOTES. IF YOU GO, UH, UP TWO PAGES, PLEASE, RIGHT THERE. SO THIS, THESE ARE THE ELEVATIONS THAT WERE PULLED FROM THE FEBRUARY 12TH, UH, SUBMISSION, UH, THAT FOR THE APPROVED COA, OKAY, THIS IS WHAT [01:50:01] IS IN PRESERVATION TRACKER RIGHT NOW, IN THIS MOMENT. CAN YOU GO TO THE NEXT SHEET? WHAT YOU SEE RIGHT THERE IS WHAT THE AGENT IS SAYING WAS SUBMITTED ON FEBRUARY 12TH, BUT I DON'T WANT TO BE IN THE BUSINESS OF GOING ANY FURTHER IN THAT. SO THAT'S JUST THE FACT. NOW, IF WE SCROLL UP, YOU CAN SEE THOSE NOTES A LITTLE. GO TO THE NEXT PAGE, YOU'LL SEE THOSE NOTES. WERE THOSE, I I WAS THE ONE WHO STAMPED THE PLANS. I'LL, I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE IS CLEAR ABOUT THAT. UM, ANYTIME YOU SEE A NOTE, ANY ONE OF US SEE A NOTE THAT SAYS, REMOVE ALL ORIGINAL SIGHTING AND REUSE AS NEEDED, ESPECIALLY FOR SOME KNOWN THAT WE WORK WITH ON A NORMAL BASIS. THAT TYPICALLY MEANS, OR THAT ALWAYS MEANS REMOVAL OF THE WOOD SIDING, REUSE THE WOOD SIDING, AND THEN PURCHASE WOOD SIDING THAT MATCHES AND INSTALL IT ON SAID, CONTRIBUTING HOME. OKAY. SO THAT'S HOW WE GOT HERE. AND THEN FINAL QUESTION, UM, IS IT ALSO YOUR EXPERIENCE THAT WOOD SIDING, UM, SO LONG AS IT'S INSTALLED CORRECTLY, IS A WORKABLE AND PRACTICAL, UH, MATERIAL FOR THESE KINDS OF STRUCTURES? YES, SIR. I MEAN, I HAVEN'T, AS LONG AS IT'S PRIMED BACK, PRIMED AND PRIMED AT, UH, WHERE IT'S CUT, THEN WE HAVEN'T. UM, I MEAN, I KNOW THE AGENT SAID THAT HE EXPERIENCED SOMETHING IN SIX MONTHS, UM, WHETHER WOULD ROT IT, BUT I, I HAVEN'T RECEIVED ANY CALLS OF ANYONE SAYING, HEY, I REPLACED THE SIDING. I DID EVERYTHING YOU GUYS SUGGESTED, AND, UH, MY SIDING IS NOW ROTTING. SO I HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED THAT. NO. OKAY. THANK YOU. WELCOME, PETE. UM, UH, ABOUT THE LONGEVITY OF, UH, WOOD SIDING. UM, I HAVE SEEN, UH, CYPRUS FAIL WITHIN A YEAR. OKAY. YOU KNOW, UH, I'VE SEEN, UH, NEW CYPRUS FAIL WITHIN A YEAR, AND I'VE, UH, PERSONALLY DONE PINE, YOU KNOW, OFF THE SHELF PINE THAT'S LASTED OVER 30 YEARS. SO IT, IT, A HUNDRED PERCENT HAS TO DO WITH THE INSTALLATION AND HOW MUCH ROT YOU'VE HAD TO REPLACE IN THE PAST AND, YOU KNOW, WHETHER YOU FIGURED OUT WHAT WORKS AND WHAT DOESN'T WORK. BUT AGAIN, I'LL REFER BACK TO COMMISSIONER EK'S, UH, CHAIR EK'S, UH, COMMENTS ABOUT, UM, UH, NOT JUST BACK PRIME AND ALL FOUR SIDES, BUT PRIME THE CUT INS, UM, AND STAND IT OFF OF, UH, UH, WHATEVER IT NEEDS A, UH, AN AIRSPACE BEHIND. UH, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE MUCH, BUT, UM, UH, Y YOU KNOW, I HAVE ALSO SEEN VERY, VERY FEW INSTALLATIONS LIKE THAT. UM, PEOPLE, A FRAMER WITH A CHOP SAW IS NOT GONNA HAVE A CAN OF PAINT NEXT TO HIM AND PRIMING HIS CUT INS. UM, AND ANY BUILDER WHO PROMISES ME THAT, NO, MY GUYS, THEY'LL DO IT, UM, IS THE GUY WHO'S IN HIS OFFICE DOING TAKEOFFS AND NOT ACTUALLY STANDING OVER HIS CORNICE GUY. BUT, UM, YEAH, IT ONLY WORKS WHEN, UH, THE, THE LUMBER'S DELIVERED TO THE SITE. SOMEONE WASHES IT, NO SHADE AT BUILDERS, SOMEONE WASHES IT WITH LIKE A CLOROX SOLUTION OR SOMETHING TO GET THE MILDEW OFF OF. IT PAINTS ALL THE BOARDS BEFORE YOU EVEN START CUTTING AND THEN IT, IT, IT, IT, IT, IT TAKES SOME PREPARATION AND NOT EVERYONE DOES THAT. AND THE OLD WOOD, IT DIDN'T HAVE, THE OLD HOUSES WEREN'T BUILT THAT WAY, BUT THE WOOD WAS SO SUPERIOR IT DIDN'T MATTER. THEY, THEY LASTED. AND, UM, IF YOU USE SPANISH CEDAR, YOU, YOU CAN DO THAT. BUT, UM, SO I GUESS MY QUESTION WE'RE STILL WE'RE, WE'RE WE ARE WHERE WE ARE. I MEAN, THERE'S, THERE'S A SMALL AMOUNT OF WOOD LEFT IS MY UNDERSTANDING IN THE GARAGE. P PETE, I THINK YOU'VE SEEN THAT YES. IS MY UNDERSTANDING, BUT, UM, THAT'S WHAT REMAINS OF THE ORIGINAL WOOD. SO WE'RE, I THINK WE'RE STILL, UM, WE'RE STILL TRYING TO WRESTLE WITH, UM, THE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION, WHICH IS TO TRY TO SIDE THE IMMEDIATE CORNER WITH WOOD. I, I THINK CAN, CAN, CAN YOU RESTATE YOUR RECOMMENDATION? UH, STAFF RECOMMENDS DENIAL OF A COA ISSUANCE OF A COR FOR WORK PERFORMED OUTSIDE OF SCOPE AND REQUIRES THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALL WOOD SIDING IN PLACE OF SEMEN CEMENTITIOUS SIDING ON THE CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE. THE SE CEMENTITIOUS SIDING, SIDING CAN REMAIN ON THE ADDITION APPROVED BY THE HHC ON FEBRUARY 27TH. AND SO TO DEFINE THE, THE AREA OF THIS AREA, CAN WE PUT UP THE DRAWINGS [01:55:01] OF THE SIDES OF THEIR HOUSE? YEP. SO THAT'S EXISTING, SO YOU CAN SEE WHAT'S EXISTING THERE AT THE TOP. UM, SO THAT WE WOULD JUST ASK TO DECIDE WHAT'S THAT, THAT FIRST PART THAT'LL BE, WELL, THAT'S ON MY RIGHT ON THE LEFT, ON THE NORTH SIDE. AND, AND THAT'S ON BOTH SIDES OF THE YES, SIR. THAT ON BOTH SIDES. YEAH, WE, WE ARE FINE WITH THE ADDITION CONTINUING TO REMAIN WITH THE CEMENTITIOUS SIDING. UM, I MEAN WE'VE ALLOWED THAT FOR AGES. UM, SO, AND ALSO I'D LIKE TO STATE THAT THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS SAYS THAT HARDY IS GOOD FOR ADDITIONS. UH, SO JUST TO CLARIFY, THE, WE'RE ASKING FOR WOOD ON YES, MA'AM. TWO SIDES OF THE HOUSE OR THREE? YES, JUST TWO. OKAY. YEAH. 'CAUSE THE, THE BACK, I MEAN, THEY'VE DONE AN ADDITION, SO THE BACK IS, I MEAN, AND WE WOULDN'T ASK FOR IT TO GO ON THE BACK ANYWAY, NOT AN ADDITION. OKAY. SO I HAVE A QUESTION FOR LEGAL. SO, AND THIS IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THOUGH, IF, IF I PUT ASIDE HOW WE GOT TO THIS CONVERSATION, WE JUST LOOK AT THIS STRAIGHT UP AS IF IT WERE BEFORE US FOR THE FIRST TIME, OR, YOU KNOW, JUST TALKING ABOUT THIS ISSUE. UM, THE HOUSE HAS MULTIPLE SIDING TYPES, WHICH WERE VISIBLE IN THE IMAGES THAT WERE PRESENTED TO US PRIOR TO THE REMOVAL OF THE SIDING. AND, UM, IF THE REMAINING SIDING THAT IS ORIGINAL TO THE HOME IS WHAT IS STILL IN THE GARAGE, IT HASN'T LEFT THE SITE. THAT'S ALWAYS ENCOURAGING. I, I FIND, UH, WHEN IT DOESN'T LEAVE THE PROPERTY, UM, BUT IF THAT AMOUNT OF SIDING DOESN'T, DOESN'T COVER ALL OF THE AREAS OF THE ORIGINAL HOUSE, UM, THIS, THIS IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN OUR NORMAL JUST, IS IT, IS IT ROTTEN AND REPLACE IT WITH WOOD AS WELL? IT'S, IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE NUANCED, I GUESS, BECAUSE, UM, I I WOULD'VE EXPECTED MORE OF THE WOOD SIDING TO BE AVAILABLE TO PUT ON THE HOUSE. THE FACT THAT IT'S NOT, AND THE FACT THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF DIFFERENT SIDING TYPES AROUND THE HOUSE TELLS ME THAT A LOT OF THE ORIGINAL SIDING WAS REMOVED PRIOR TO THIS APPLICANT'S WORK. SO, UM, I THINK THAT'S WHY IT'S BEFORE THE COMMISSION FOR YOUR DISCRETION TO, TO LOOK AT THIS. SO CAN I SAY SOMETHING ANYONE CAN ASK A QUESTION OF, OF THE APPLICANT? UH, I, I DO HAVE A QUESTION, UH, PROBABLY FOR SAM, IF THERE, IF, IF, DID THE, DID THE FIBER CEMENT NOTE GO ON BEFORE PERMIT SUBMITTAL? UM, NO. THIS WAS THE FORM THAT WE FILLED OUT WHEN WE, WHEN WE MADE OUR INITIAL SUBMITTAL. UM, THE, UM, LIKE I SAY, WHEN WE FIRST MEET, WE MAKE ONE SUBMITTAL, AND AS WE HAVE MEETINGS, WE ADD TO THAT SUBMITTAL JUST LIKE WHEN WE'RE TRYING TO GET IT READY FOR PERMITTED. AND A LOT OF NOTES GET PUT ON THERE AFTERWARDS BECAUSE WE'RE TRYING TO GET IT TO SUBMITTAL, SO IT'S MORE BARE BONES. SO THE VERY FIRST SUBMITTAL THAT I SUBMITTED YESTERDAY OR MONDAY WHEN WE HAD, I THINK I SUBMITTED THREE THINGS. THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT WHAT WE'RE GOING GONNA BE THE FINAL THING THAT COMES OUT OF THIS, BECAUSE I'M GONNA HAVE TO MEET WITH STAFF AND WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THE DIFFERENT THINGS THAT ARE WRONG WITH THE STRUCTURE OR, OR RIGHT. WITH THE STRUCTURE ON THIS PARTICULAR ONE, IT WAS ACKNOWLEDGED THAT WE GOT A REALLY PROBLEM WITH THE SIDING. AND WHY ELSE WOULD I PUT THAT OTHER NOTE ON THERE? WHY ELSE WOULD I PUT THE NOTE THAT YOU SEE IN RED ON MY NEXT SUBMITTAL, YOU KNOW, MY SUPPLEMENTAL SUBMITTAL, I GUESS YOU'D CALL IT. WHY ELSE WOULD I DO THAT OTHER THAN HAVE HAD THE CONVERSATION THAT, LOOK, WE'RE GONNA HAVE AN ISSUE COMING DOWN THE PIKE HERE ON THIS, ON THIS SIGHTING. AND THAT'S WHY WE DID IT. I, I THINK MY, I, AND I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURE OF, OF HOW WELL THAT THE BUILDER PUT THE HARDY PLANK, AND, AND BY THE WAY, THE, THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE SAYS, UH, UH, HARDY PLANK IS A PREFERRED USE OVER WOOD, OVER NEW GROWTH WOOD. READ IT. READ IT, AND I, AND I'LL SEND IT TO ALL OF YOU GUYS. I, I, AND SO HIM PUTTING THE HARDY PLANK CUP, I THINK MAKES THE HOUSE LAST LONGER. IT CERTAINLY, UH, IT'S GONNA HOLD THE PAINT BETTER. IT'S GONNA, WHY WOULD WE, WHY WOULD WE MAKE A CLIENT PUT SOMETHING THAT WE KNOW FOR A FACT THAT IF ONE PI ONE PIECE IS NOT PRIMED PROPERLY OR, OR WHATEVER, IT'S GOING TO ROT. I KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE, I'VE BEEN DOING THIS, I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 40 YEARS. I, I MEAN, I'VE BEEN IN THE HEIGHTS IN 76, I'VE DONE HUNDREDS OF THESE AND MAYBE THOUSAND AND IT IS GOING TO ROT. AND WHY WOULD WE HAVE A CLIENT SPEND THE MONEY THAT THIS GUY'S SPENDING ON THIS HOUSE WHO'S PROBABLY A MILLION AND A HALF DOLLARS AND THEN, AND, AND PRODUCE A PRODUCT THAT'S NOT AS GOOD AS, AS WHAT IT COULD BE? UM, WE KEPT ALL THE ORIGINAL SIDING ON THE FRONT, AND [02:00:01] I HAVE THE REST OF IT IN THE GARAGE IF SOMEBODY WANTS IT, BUT IT, SO NOW WE'RE, WE'RE SAYING WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE GONNA MAKE THIS GUY TAKE THE HARDY PLANK OFF THE HOUSE AND, AND, AND TAKE ALL THE, UH, UH, CORNICE WORK AROUND THE WINDOWS OFF THE HOUSE AND GO BACK IN AND PUT S WOOD SIDING THAT WE KNOW IS GONNA ROT IN SIX MONTHS AND, AND, AND THEN PAINT IT, READ IT, GO, GO TO THE WEBSITE, READ IT, AND IT'S GOING TO ROT. AND, AND WHY WOULD WE DO THAT? UH, I DON'T THINK WE MADE A MISTAKE HERE. I WAS SURPRISED THAT WE HAD TO, THAT, THAT IT CAME TO LIGHT BECAUSE WE THOUGHT WE HAD, WE HAD A SEALED SET OF DRAWINGS. THE BUILDERS OUT THERE WORKING WITH A SET OF DRAWINGS. HE'S NOT WORKING WITH THE COA, HE DIDN'T SEE MY FIRST SUBMITTAL TO, TO THE HISTORIC COMMISSION. YOU KNOW, HE'S WORKING WITH A SET OF DRAWINGS AND A SET OF DRAWINGS WAS VERY CLEAR. USE ALL THE SIDING YOU CAN AS BEST YOU CAN, WHICH WE DID ON THE FRONT, SAVE THE REST OF IT. AND THEN HE PUT HARDY DOWN THE SIDES, WHICH IS WHAT WAS ON OUR APPLICATION. AND, AND IT, IT WAS NOT INTENTIONAL AT ALL. IT WAS NOT INTENTIONAL. AND, AND THAT'S WHY I SAY I'VE NEVER HAD A COR. THIS IS MY FIRST ONE. AND, AND IT MAKES ME MAD BECAUSE I WANT PEOPLE TO COMMUNICATE. ASK PETE. I I, I TELL PEOPLE TO CALL PETE ALL THE TIME, AND I CALL PETE ALL THE TIME, IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION. IT, I DON'T WANNA BE UP HERE, YOU KNOW, TODAY ARGUING ABOUT A SIGHTING JOB THAT LOOKS FANTASTIC, ACTUALLY. UM, THANK YOU, SAM. YEAH, BUT MY, MY QUESTION WAS, DID, DID YOU NOT, NOT ON THE SUBMITTAL FOR C OF A, BUT FOR PERMITTING? YES. IT'S ON, IT'S ON, PER THAT NOTE, THAT NOTE WENT ON THAT NOTE THEN WENT IN FOR, FOR REVIEW, FOR FOR PERMITTING, YES. YEAH, MY UNDERSTANDING IS WE'RE STILL DOING A CHECK. SO NOW I GUESS I'M ASKING TERRANCE. WELL, WHAT HAPPENED IS THAT NOTE IS NOW, UH, WE ADDED IT AS A REGULAR NOTE TO OUR, UH, TO OUR NOTES AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE. OKAY. AND, UH, MATTER OF FACT, THIS WEEK I HAD TWO PROJECTS AND YASMINE CALLED ME ON 'EM. SHE SAID, I WANT YOU TO TAKE, IT DOES NOT SAY HARDY. UM, IT DOES THAT, IT DOESN'T SAY HARDY. NO, IT DOESN'T SAY HARDY, BUT HARDY HARDY IS WHAT NATIONAL PARK SERVICE RECOMMENDS. UNDERSTAND, YES, IT HAS TO BE SPECIFIC. RIGHT. BUT WE DO HAS TO BE SPECIFIC. WE CAN'T GUESS WHAT YOU WANT HARDY, BUT IF IT, IF IT SATISFIES THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE, SHOULDN'T THAT SATISFY HISTORICAL? BUT MY, MY QUESTION IS YES, I'M SORRY. THE NOTE WENT ON. WHETHER IT SAYS FIBER, WHETHER IT CALLS OUT THE BRAND OR NOT, RIGHT? THE, THE FIBER CEMENT NOTE THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT RIGHT HERE THAT SAY FIVE C BEFORE YOU SUBMITTED THE PROJECT FOR A PERMIT. YES, SIR. NOT FOR C OF A YES SIR, BUT FOR A PERMIT. YES. OKAY. 'CAUSE I, I'M, I DON'T KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF THE, ALL OF THE COMMISSIONERS ARE AWARE THAT THERE IS A PROCESS BY WHICH YOU GET A PERMIT TO BUILD ON A HOUSE THAT HAS A C OF A PART OF THE REVIEW IS TO CROSSCHECK COMPLIANCE, MAKING SURE THAT, NOT THAT YOU WOULD EVER DO THIS, MAKING SURE THAT SOMETHING WASN'T ADDED IN PRIOR. SO I, I'M, IF I'M JUST TRYING TO GATHER INFORMATION RIGHT NOW, AND IF I UNDERSTAND THAT, WHAT NEEDS TO ANSWER, SAM? OKAY. OKAY. I WANT, I WANT TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. MAY I EXPLAIN SOMETHING? SO UNDER EXEMPTIONS, UM, YOU CAN REPAIR AND REPLACE SIDING AS NEEDED TO MATCH EXISTING. IF IT'S LESS THAN 50% OF THE ELEVATION, WHICH I'M SURE YOU KNOW, UM, IT DOES NOT REQUIRE A C OF A BECAUSE IT'S MORE, THAT'S WHY A C OF A WAS NEEDED. SO THAT NOTE ON THE DRAWINGS, WE, WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH IT'S AS, AS, AS NEEDED, BUT IF IT IS BEFORE MORE THAN 50%, THEN A C OF A IS REQUIRED. WE, WE, WE REALLY DON'T WANNA ALSO BE HERE AND WE DON'T WANNA BE DIFFICULT, BUT BECAUSE THAT'S, THAT'S THE, THAT'S KIND OF THE LAW AND THE CRITERIA THAT WE'RE GOING BY. AND SO WHEN THE NOTE IS VAGUE REPAIR AND REPLACE, FOR US, THAT MEANS AS NEEDED TO MATCH EXISTING. IF IT DOES NOT SAY THE HARDY, THEN IT'S, IT'S NOT A CHANGE. YOU'RE MATCHING WHAT IS THERE AND THAT'S WHAT STAFF UNDERSTANDS. IT'S ALL LIKE FOR LIKE, I GUESS, AND I GUESS THE NUANCE, BUT THE NUANCE HERE IS TERRENCE, YOU YOU WANT TO ADD SORRY, CAN WE CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING? SURE. I'LL, I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. UM, BUT UM, I'M JUST SAYING THE, WHAT, WHAT I SEE THE DIFFERENCE HERE IS THAT IF AN APPLICANT COMES BEFORE US, THAT HAS A LOT OF ROT. I MEAN THE ISSUE THIS, THE HARDY USING HARDY BOARD WASN'T DISCUSSED AMONGST THE COMMISSION. THAT'S THE ISSUE. AND, BUT IF IT HAD BEEN, UM, IF THE COMMISSION DETERMINED THAT OVER 50% WAS DAMAGED AND COULDN'T BE REPAIRED, [02:05:01] IT IS POSSIBLE TO GET APPROVAL TO USE HARDY BOARD ON THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE OR WE, WE DO TRY TO PUT IT ON THE FRONT AND AS MUCH OF THE SIDES CLOSEST TO THE FRONT AS WE CAN. IF THE NUANCE IN THIS THAT I'M, THAT I'M SEEING, WHICH IS NOT TYPICAL THAT YOU MAY SEE, IS THAT WE DON'T NORMALLY SEE HOUSES THAT HAVE MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF SIDING ON THE ORIGINAL HOUSE. WE DO SEE THAT ON ADDITIONS. AND THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH HAVING DIFFERENT KINDS OF SIDING ON ADDITIONS. IN FACT, IT KIND OF TELLS A STORY THAT THIS CAME AFTER THE ORIGINAL, AND YOU CAN KIND OF TELL THAT IT'S REALLY, REALLY GOOD NOT TO BE MATCHING NEW AND OLD, UM, THE ORIGINAL VERSUS THE, THE, WHAT, WHAT IS THERE. SO I THINK THIS COMMISSION HAS TO COME UP WITH AS IF YOU WERE SEEING IT FOR THE FIRST TIME, YOU, YOU NEED TO MAKE A DECISION BASED ON IF WE COULD GO BACK IN TIME AND EVALUATE THIS PARTICULAR CASE. UM, GIVEN NOW WHAT WE KNOW, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY? I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION, UM, UNFORTUNATELY TO NOT AGREE WITH THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION TO REPLACE THE SIDING WITH, WITH WOOD FROM A PRACTICALITY POINT OF VIEW. UM, I AGREE WITH THE SENTIMENT. I THINK THAT, UM, I'M NOT GOING TO ASSUME ANY NEFARIOUS INTENTION WITH THE AMBIGUITY, BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S REALLY WHERE ALL PARTIES ARE GETTING TRIPPED UP RIGHT NOW IS THE AMBIGUITY OF THE NOTE. UM, SOMETIMES THAT CAN BE A SINISTER ACTION ON THE PART OF THE DEVELOPER IS TO LEAVE SOME, SOME, SO MUCH AMBIGUITY SO THAT THIS CAN HAPPEN AND THAT 50% CANNOT BE CAUGHT BEFORE PERMIT. UM, GIVEN THAT THIS IS YOUR FIRST TIME DOING THIS, I'M NOT ASSUMING THIS IS A PATTERN OF YOU TRYING TO REPEATEDLY HAVE THIS AMBIGUOUS, UM, PERCENTAGE OF REPLACEMENT. AND SO ONLY BECAUSE OF THAT, UM, IN ADDITION TO THE COST EFFECTIVENESS OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION, NEEDING NOT TO BE PER COST PROHIBITIVE, UM, I, I MAKE A MOTION TO, SORRY, STAFF , UM, TO, TO, TO DISAGREE WITH STAFF AND I, I SO MOVE TO HELP ME WITH LANGUAGE HERE. I THINK LEGALLY THIS WOULD BE GRANTING A C OF A QUESTION FOR LEGAL. SO, SO, SO THE C OF A ACCEPTING WORK FOR FOREIGN PARTY ON THE WHOLE THING I'M HEARING, SO I MAKE A MOTION TO GRANT THE C OF A, UM, AND ACCEPT THE, UM, STATUS AS IS OF THE HOUSE, OF, OF THE REPLACEMENT OF THE, THE WOOD WITH HARDY PLANK. LET ME KNOW IF I NEED TO BE MORE EXPLICIT WITH MY LANGUAGE AND I'LL EDIT MYSELF TO CLARIFY. SO, SO C OF R FOR WORK DESIGNING, OH, I'M SORRY. SO THIS, THE C OF R WAS TO, UM, ACCEPT THE WORK PERFORMED OUTSIDE THE ORIGINAL SCOPE, PUTTING CEMENTITIOUS SIDING ON THE, UH, ADDITION, WHICH WAS OKAY WITH STAFF, WHICH WAS RECOMMENDED BY STAFF, UM, AND INSTALLING CEMENTITIOUS SIDING ON THE ENTIRETY OF THE CONTRIBUTING SIDES, JUST THE SIDES OF THE CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE. THANK YOU. UM, SO IF THAT'S, SO YOU CAN ALWAYS SAY WHAT SHE SAID. WELL, SO, AND TO MY QUESTION, SO YOU'RE SAYING IT'S A, IT'S STILL A C OF R COULD WORK OUTTA SCOPE, BUT THAT THE, THAT THE MOTION IS TO ACCEPT THE APPLICANT'S, UM, WHAT, WHAT THEY HAVE DONE. CORRECT. IT'S A SIMPLER WAY OF SAYING THAT. OKAY. YEAH, WHAT SHE SAID IS THERE, IS THERE A SECOND? I SECOND AND I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, BECAUSE I, I DID A LOT OF STUDYING ON THIS THIS WEEKEND. I'M A TOTAL NERD AND I READ THAT PRESERVATION 16 DOCUMENT AND I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO DISCUSS, MAYBE NOT NOW ON THIS, 'CAUSE I'M IN AGREEMENT WITH YOU THAT, UH, HOW WE ARE INTERPRETING GUIDELINE 4.18 BECAUSE THE CURRENT INTERPRETATION THAT I'M HEARING CONFLICTS WITH THE ORDINANCE UH, BECAUSE THE ORDINANCE 33, 2 41 REQUIRES THAT MATERIALS BE VISUALLY COMPATIBLE WITH, BUT NOT NECESSARILY THE SAME AS MATERIALS WERE PLACED IN FORM DESIGN, TEXTURE, DIMENSION, AND SCALE. AND THAT IF YOU KEEP READING THE, UH, STANDARD SIX AND THE PRESERVATION BRIEF, YOU GET TO THE POINT WHERE IT IS SAYING, [02:10:01] AND IT'S NOT JUST ON ADDITIONS, TERENCE, IT IS SAYING THAT SIM SIM HARDY PLANK, IT IS CEMENTITIOUS, UH, PRODUCT IS MEETS THE GUIDELINES, UM, UH, FOR PRESERVATION. AND, UH, 'CAUSE THAT'S OUR PURPOSE IS PRESERVATION, NOT PURISM. SURE. I THINK THE, IT, IT JUST, I'LL, I'LL MOVE, HAVE A SECOND NOW, NOW WE'LL GO TO DISCUSSION BRIEFLY. THE WAY OUR ORDINANCE IS WRITTEN AND THE WAY THE PARK SERVICE IS WRITTEN IS TO REPAIR AS OPPOSED TO REPLACE WHENEVER POSSIBLE. AND, AND SO WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE PARK SERVICE AND WITH OUR OWN GUIDELINES IS WHEN, WHEN REPAIRING, IF YOU HAVE TO REPAIR MORE THAN 50% OF THE WALL, THAT'S WHERE OUR ORDINANCE ALLOWS US TO REPLACE THE MATERIAL DOESN'T HAVE TO MATCH THE SAME MATERIAL LIKE FOR LIKE, AS LONG AS IT LOOKS LIKE THE MATERIAL LOOK LIKE WHEN PAINTED. THAT'S WHERE HARDY BOARD IS ALLOWED. AND, AND, AND SO THAT THERE, I'M JUST SAYING THERE, THERE THAT THAT'S HOW OUR ORDINANCE READS AND BECAUSE WE'RE NOT SUBJECT TO THE PARK SERVICE, LIKE OUR CITY COUNCIL DIDN'T APPROVE THE PARK SERVICE BRIEFS THAT LIKE WE'RE LOOKING AT, ALTHOUGH THEY ARE A GOOD REFERENCE BECAUSE THEY ARE A NATIONAL STANDARD OF, OF, OF DIALOGUE. AND THEY DO EVOLVE SINCE THE 1930S SINCE THEY'VE EXISTED. SO AM AM I MISSING SOMETHING THERE? SORRY, SORRY. I GUESS THE QUESTION IS NOT WITH GR REGARD TO THE OVER FOR 50% OR WHATEVER, WE'VE ALREADY DETERMINED THAT THERE WAS NOT ENOUGH TO REPLACE THE, THE WHOLE SIZE THAT WASN'T VERIFIED BY STAFF. OKAY. SO YOU CAN GO OUT INTO THE GARAGE AND LOOK AT THAT PILE OF WOOD THAT YOU GOT A PICTURE OF AND TELL ME IF YOU CAN PUT, IF YOU CAN REPLACE THE ENTIRE SIDE WITH MA. I'M TELLING YOU, IT WASN'T VERIFIED BY THIS, THIS STAFF THAT'S HERE CURRENTLY. THAT'S ALL I'M STATING. I, I UNDERSTAND. AND, AND NEITHER HERE NOR. OKAY. SO THE BOTTOM LINE IS ARE WE GOING TO REQUIRE HIM TO RIP IT OFF AND PUT WOOD ON IT? ARE WE GOING TO ACCEPT WHAT HE IS, WHAT HAS BEEN DONE FOR WHATEVER REASON? UM, BUT I, UM, AND MAYBE THIS IS NOT THE TIME OR PLACE, BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO HAVE A MEETING OF THE MINES ON WHAT REPLACING WOOD USING NEW WOOD AS OPPOSED TO CEMENTITIOUS SIDING TO RE TO MAKE REPAIRS. WE GOTTA TALK ABOUT THAT. YEAH, WE SHOULD DEFINITELY TALK ABOUT IT. BUT ULTIMATELY WE'RE ALSO LOOKING AT LOSS OF HISTORIC MATERIALS, RIGHT. AND WE'RE TRYING TO PROTECT AS MANY HISTORIC MATERIALS AS POSSIBLE. AND SO YES, AS A COMMISSION WE SHOULD SIT DOWN AND TALK ABOUT WHICH ONES ARE THE IMPORTANT HISTORIC MATERIALS ON A STRUCTURE THAT REALLY MAKE THEM A HISTORIC STRUCTURE. RIGHT? AND IN THE PAST, UP UNTIL THIS BRAND NEW COMMISSION, RIGHT, WE HAVE CONSIDERED WOOD ON A HOUSE THAT YOU CAN SEE FROM THE STREET AS AN IMPORTANT HISTORIC MATERIAL THAT MAKES THAT STRUCTURE HISTORIC. SO THAT'S HOW WE HAVE APPROACHED IT USING OUR CITY OF HOUSTON GUIDELINES AND UNDERSTANDING THE HISTORIC FABRIC OF THE CITY. OKAY. AND SO WHERE I AM DISAGREEING WITH YOU IS THAT YOUR NEW GROWTH WOOD, WHICH IS AVAILABLE FOR REPLACEMENT IS NOT THE SAME. YEAH. YEAH. SO WE, WE DO HAVE TRAININGS, ALTHOUGH WE'VE BEEN LOOKING TO HAVE ANOTHER TRAINING SESSION WHERE WE HAVE THESE KIND OF DISCUSSIONS AND COME TO FIND CONSENSUS ON THINGS. UM, I'LL I'LL JUST SAY FOR THE APPLICANT THOUGH, YEAH, I COULDN'T MAKE SENSE OF THAT PICTURE RIGHT THERE, YOU KNOW, WITH EVERYTHING LAID ON THE GROUND. BUT I DID SEE ON THE, WHAT THE REASON I BROUGHT UP THAT OTHER IMAGE OR THE OTH ON THE SIDE BEFORE THE SIDING WAS REMOVED, I DID SEE EVIDENCE THAT THERE WERE MULTIPLE SIGHTING TYPES, WHAT APPEARED TO BE ON THE ORIGINAL HOUSE AND THEY APPEARED NOT TO BE ORIGINAL. THAT THAT, SO THAT THAT, UM, THAT WAS IMPORTANT FOR, FOR ME THAT WAS IMPORTANT BECAUSE THAT, THAT ANSWERED ONE ASPECT OF OUR ORDINANCE AS WRITTEN, UH, BECAUSE THERE WAS A LOT OF HISTORIC MATERIAL THAT WASN'T HISTORIC AND THEREFORE, UM, THE LOSS OF THAT NON-ORIGINAL MATERIAL, THAT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE. UM, THAT THAT'S NOT AN ISSUE. SO, UM, MR. CHAIR, UM, I'D LIKE TO SAY THAT I AGREE THAT ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS THAT ARE ARISING AROUND THE APPROPRIATE CITING MATERIALS AND WHAT WORKS BEST FOR A SPECIFIC SITUATION, THEY'RE VERY IMPORTANT QUESTIONS AND SPECIFIC TO THIS PROJECT, THEY'RE VERY IMPORTANT QUESTIONS. THE TIME TO HAVE DEALT WITH THOSE QUESTIONS WAS WITHIN THE DISCUSSION OF THE ORIGINAL COA MM-HMM . AND THE ORIGINAL COA WAS VOTED ON, I THINK. DID THIS, DID IT COME BEFORE? OKAY. IT CAME BEFORE THIS BODY. IT WAS VOTED ON, UH, IT WASN'T APPEALED AND CONSTRUCTION MOVED FORWARD. AND SO OUR DECISIONS HAVE TO COUNT FOR SOMETHING. IF, [02:15:02] IF MISTAKES ARE MADE OR WHAT HAVE YOU DURING THE CONSTRUCTION PROCESS, THEN FORCES SOME KIND OF A REVERSAL. AND THE COA COULD NOT HAVE BEEN MORE CLEAR ABOUT WHAT MATERIALS NEEDED TO BE USED AND THAT IF COMPLICATIONS WERE, UH, ENCOUNTERED DURING CONSTRUCTION, CONTACT THE OFFICE. IF NONE OF THOSE THINGS HAPPEN, I, I THINK WE'RE BOUND TO COMPLY WITH THE ORIGINAL COA, OTHERWISE WHY ARE WE HERE? OKAY. WELL I'VE GOT A MOTION IN A SECOND AND I'M GONNA CALL THE VOTE ON THAT MOTION. SO, ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION? AYE. I THINK WE SHOULD RAISE HANDS IF, IF POSSIBLE 'CAUSE IT'S IN THE MOTION. THE MOTION BEING TO THE MOTION YOU MADE, RIGHT? THE MOTION YES. IS, IS TO, IS TO ACCEPT, IS TO, UM, GRANT, ACCEPT GRANT A C OF R FOR THE WORK AS IT HAS BEEN COMPLETED TO AT THIS TIME IS LIKE, WELL I THINK IT WAS TO GRANT THE C OF A, INCLUDING THE ISSUANCE OF THE C OF R FOR THE EXISTING WORK THAT HAS BEEN DONE, BUT TO ALLOW THE INSTALLATION OF CEMENTITIOUS SIDING ON THE SIDES OF THE, OF THE ORIGINAL CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE, LEAVING WOOD ON THE, ON THE FACE. OKAY. PLEASE RAISE YOUR HAND. SORRY. UM, UH, BEFORE WE DO THAT, YES, THIS IS A QUESTION FOR YOU KIM, TO, TO, UM, CAN WE APPROVE THIS WITH CONDITIONS THAT THE, UM, STAFF OR PETE WHO, WHOMEVER IS IN CHARGE OF REVIEWING THAT CONFIRM THAT THE MAJORITY OF USABLE WOOD IS BEING REUSED ON THE STRUCTURE? WELL, THE MAJORITY OF WOOD IS BEING USED ON THE STRUCTURE, THE, THE WHATEVER IS SALVAGEABLE. SO, SO DO YOU MEAN, LET ME ASK BECAUSE THE QUESTION KIND OF CAME UP. WAS THERE ENOUGH WOOD TO, TO SIDE BOTH SIDES OR, OR A REAR? SO WE KNOW WE HAD ONE ON, ON THE SIDE AND THE FRONT, IF THERE'S ENOUGH WOOD TO DO THE BACKSIDE OF THE EXISTING HOUSE, UM, CAN THAT BE A CONDITION TO, TO UTILIZE IT? AND AGAIN, IT'S PRESERVATION OF MATERIALS, UM, HISTORIC MATERIALS. I, I KNOW YOU DON'T SEE IT FROM THE BACK, BUT, UM, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH OF THE SIDE YOU'RE GONNA SEE FROM THE STREET. IT LOOKS LIKE THE, THE, SINCE WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE VOTE, AND THIS IS PROBABLY GONNA BE A DOWN VOTE, COULDN'T THAT BE THE NEXT PROPOSED VOTE? YEAH. WELL, LET, LET ME SAY THIS. SO I, I THINK WHAT I'M HEARING, I'M DOING FRIENDLY AMENDMENTS IS PERHAPS AN AMENDMENT TO THE ORIGINAL MOTION, RIGHT? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE INTENDING? YES. SINCE WE'VE MADE THE MOTION AND SECOND IT, SO I'M NOT SURE I'M UNDERSTANDING WHAT YOU WANT. THE, I I THINK, I THINK WHAT HE'S THE WOOD PORTION OF IT TO SAY, I THINK WHAT HE'S ASKING IS FOR THE REMAINING SIGHTING THAT'S IN THE GARAGE, CAN SOMEONE FROM STAFF GO THERE AND SEE IF IT IS SALVAGEABLE AND IN HAVE IT PLACED ON THE HOME, WHETHER IT BE THE SIDES OR THE BACK AS A CONDITION RATHER? I MEAN MY UNDERSTANDING, YEAH. IF, IF I'M, IF I'M UNDERSTANDING CORRECTLY THAT THE SIGHTING THAT IT REMAINS IS NOT ENOUGH TO CLOUD ONE OF THE TWO SIDES IN QUESTION. RIGHT. I THINK HE'S, I THINK HE KNOWS THAT. I THINK THAT WAS STATED. SO IT CAN'T BE ON THE TWO SIDES, LIKE RIGHT, YOUR INQUIRIES ABOUT PUTTING ON THE BACK. WE, WE GENERALLY DON'T REGULATE THE BACK, BUT, UM, BUT THAT, THAT'S RIGHT. THIS IS DIFFERENT THAN A NORMAL APPLICATION BECAUSE, UM, I I WOULD SAY IF THE QUESTION IS CAN YOU PLACE THAT CONDITION ON IT, YOU MAY PLACE CONDITIONS THAT ARE REASONABLE AND RELATED TO THE ITEM BEFORE YOU. SO I THINK YOU COULD, COULD MAKE THAT AS AN AMENDMENT. THE AMENDMENT WOULD NEED TO BE SECONDED SEPARATELY, VOTE ON THE AMENDMENT AND THEN VOTE ON THE ORIGINAL MOTION. OKAY. BUT I STILL NEED TO CARRY THROUGH THE MOTION I HAVE ON THE FLOOR. 'CAUSE WE DIDN'T POINT OF ORDER. NO, I THINK HE'S, WELL WELL I'M SAYING I I DIDN'T, I DIDN'T CALL FOR THOSE OPPOSED TO THE, I I STILL HAVEN'T COMPLETED THE VOTE THAT WE STARTED. YOU, YOU MAY DO IT EITHER WAY, YOU MAY COMPLETE THE VOTE AND THEN SEE IF THERE IS SOMETHING ELSE. BUT I UNDERSTOOD HE WAS INTERRUPTING THE VOTE TO AMEND THE VOTE THAT IS CURRENTLY ON THE FLOOR. OKAY. AND IS, SO THAT'S, BUT YOU MAY, YOU MAY TAKE IT SEPARATELY IF, IF THAT'S EASIER AND, AND THAT'S FINE AS LONG AS THE, THE PERSON I'M, I I'M THINKING OF HOW SHE HAS TO KEEP THIS. I UNDERSTAND YOU CAN. SO THAT JUST MEANS THAT THE, THE MOTION HAS TO BE AMENDED IF WE WERE TO ACCEPT THAT FRIENDLY AMENDMENT POINT OF ORDER. I THINK IT MIGHT BE SIMPLER IF WE JUST VOTE ON THE MOTION THAT'S ON THE TABLE. BECAUSE ONE [02:20:01] WAY TO INTERPRET THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT IS THAT IT COULD BE INCONSISTENT WITH THE MOTION THAT'S ON THE TABLE. SO MAYBE WE VOTE ON THAT AND THEN IF YOU WANT TO INTRODUCE A NEW MOTION, THAT MIGHT BE THE SIMPLER WAY TO GO. SO AGAIN, I'LL CALL UH, THE, UH, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THE CURRENT MOTION TO RAISE YOUR HAND PLEASE. FOUR OR FIVE AND THEN ALL AGAINST, SO IT'S FIVE FIVE . ALRIGHT, WELL I'M GOING TO, I'M GOING TO, I'M GONNA VOTE FOR THE MOTION THAT WAS MADE. UM, I'VE, I'VE, I'VE WORKED WITH SAM FOR MANY YEARS AND I DON'T THINK, THIS HAS NEVER COME UP BEFORE. I DON'T THINK HE'LL EVER COME BEFORE US AGAIN AND PROPOSE HARDY BOARD WITHOUT SAYING, WITH BRING, PUTTING A PICTURE OF IT. SO I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA SUPPORT THE MOTION AND WITH THAT WE WILL MOVE ON TO ITEM C, COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC, OF WHICH, UM, WE'RE DOWN TO TWO. PLEASE BE BRIEF . I WOULD LIKE THIS. GO AHEAD. BELIEVE ME, IT WAS NOT INTENTIONAL TO TAKE, TO DO THAT. AND I THINK THE MISTAKE WAS ON MOST SIDES. I THINK THE MISTAKE WAS A BIT ON THE COM, UH, ON THE STAFF SIDE AND ON MY SIDE TO NOT BE MORE SPECIFIC ABOUT THAT NOTE ON REPLACING THE SIDING. AND I'LL MAKE SURE THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN AND I APOLOGIZE FOR IT. I DON'T WANNA BE UP HERE EITHER , I'D RATHER BE HOME, YOU KNOW, WITH MY DOG. AND SO IT, IT, UH, I APPRECIATE Y'ALL CONSIDERING THIS, BUT IT LOOKS GOOD THOUGH, DOESN'T IT? COSGROVE , HE CAN'T COMMENT. HE STILL CAN'T COMMENT. SO THERE WAS ONE ABSTENTION TO THE VOTE. UH, DULY NOTED. SO WITH THAT, WE'LL MOVE ITEM D, THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICER'S REPORT. WELL, HELLO. GOOD AFTERNOON, CHAIR EK COMMISSION, UH, COMMISSION MEMBERS AND THE PUBLIC. I AM STAFF PERSON YASMIN ARSLAN, AND TODAY I WILL BE DELIVERING THE PRESERVATION OFFICER REPORT AS IT'S NOVEMBER. ON BEHALF OF STAFF, I WOULD LIKE TO EXPRESS OUR GRATITUDE TO THE COMMISSION MEMBERS FOR THEIR CONTINUED DEDICATION TO PRESERVING OUR CITY'S HISTORIC STRUCTURES. YOUR TIME AND COLLABORATION ARE GREATLY APPRECIATED. AND THIS WAS WRITTEN BEFORE THIS BECAME A LONGER THAN SUPPOSED TO MEETING. SO JUST FYI. UM, STAFF WILL BE HOSTING A PUBLIC MEETING FOR NOR HILL DESIGN GUIDELINES THAT WILL TAKE PLACE, UM, AT MONTY BEACH COMMUNITY CENTER ON WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 12TH. DOORS OPEN AT 6:00 PM AND THE MEETING WILL BEGIN SHORTLY AFTER THE DRAFT DESIGN GUIDELINES CAN BE FOUND ON THE PD NOR HILL, UH, PAGE LYONS AVENUE GRANT STANTEC HAS SUBMITTED THEIR DRAFT, UM, FOR THE NATIONAL REGISTER OF HISTORIC PLACES NOMINATION REPORT, UM, TO THE THC TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION. THIS MONTH STAFF HAS COMPLETED EIGHT PRE-APPLICATION DESIGN REVIEWS, 13 ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVALS, AND 26 C OF A APPLICATIONS. AS WE CONCLUDE, STAFF WOULD LIKE TO EXTEND OUR SINCERE APPRECIATION TO KIMSON OUR LEGAL ATTORNEY FOR HER INVALUABLE LEGAL GUIDANCE. OUTSTANDING COMMITMENT AND PROFESSIONALISM. I DON'T WANNA CRY, . YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS HAVE MADE A LASTING IMPACT AND WE WISH YOU ALL THE BEST MOVING FORWARD. ON BEHALF OF STAFF, I WISH THE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC AND COMMISSION A PLEASANT AND RESTFUL THANKSGIVING CLOSING. IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, YOU CAN CALL THE HOUSTON OFFICE OF PRESERVATIONS HOTLINE AT 8 3 2 3 9 3 6 5 5 6 OR VISIT OUR WEBSITE@HOUSTONPLANNING.COM. THIS CONCLUDES MY PRESERVATION OFFICER'S REPORT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. WITH THAT, WE ARE ADJOURNED. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.