* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [Government Operations Committee on October 13, 2025.] [00:00:15] AFTERNOON, EVERYONE. WELCOME TO THE OCTOBER GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS COMMITTEE MEETING. AT THIS MOMENT, I'D LIKE TO RECOGNIZE COUNCIL MEMBERS AND STAFF PRESENT IN THE CHAMBERS. AND WE HAVE, UH, COUNCILWOMAN ALCORN, COUNCILWOMAN PECK, AND I GUESS THAT'S ALL FOR THE COUNCIL MEMBERS. UH, WE HAVE STAFF FROM, UH, DISTRICT B, DISTRICT C, DISTRICT H, DISTRICT I, DISTRICT K AT LARGE ONE. AND THEN, UH, ALSO, UH, ONLINE IS, UH, I'M SORRY, DISTRICT G, SO, AND DISTRICT B IS ONLINE AS AS WELL. UM, SO WE DO NOT HAVE A QUORUM. UH, AT THE MOMENT. WE DO NOT, UH, HAVE ONE. SO, AS HAS BEEN A LONGSTANDING TRADITION OF THE COUNCIL, WE PROCEED WITH THE PRESENTATIONS. IF AN AGENDA ITEM REQUIRES A QUORUM TO MOVE FORWARD, AS VICE CHAIR OF THE COMMITTEE, I WILL ENSURE THERE'S A QUORUM BEFORE THE COMMITTEE PROCEEDS TO VOTE. IN TODAY'S MEETING, WE HAVE A COUPLE OF PRESENTATIONS, THEREFORE, PUBLIC SPEAKERS WILL BE CALLED UPON AFTER THE LAST PRESENTATION. UH, AT THIS MOMENT, I'LL YIELD TO RUDY MORENO, DEPUTY DIRECTOR AND JOHANNA CLARK, DEPUTY CITY, CITY ENGINEER FROM HOUSTON PUBLIC WORKS. THEY'LL BE PROVIDING AN UPDATE ON STAFF AUGMENTATION COUNCIL MEMBERS AND STAFF. PLEASE, PLEASE HOLD YOUR QUESTIONS UNTIL THE END OF THE PRESENTATION. GOOD. A GOOD AFTERNOON. UH, VICE CHAIR AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT RELATIONS. MY NAME IS RUDY MORENO, DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF THE HOUSTON PERMANENT CENTER. UM, TODAY, I, I'M ALSO ACCOMPANIED WITH MS. CLARK. GO AHEAD. GOOD MORNING EVERYONE. AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS JOANNA CLARK. I'M THE DEPUTY CITY ENGINEER WITH HOUSTON PUBLIC WORKS. SO WE APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY. I THINK WE HAD 'EM BOTH ON THIS WAY. APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK, UH, BEFORE THE COMMITTEE TODAY. UM, TODAY WE'RE GONNA TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIRD PARTY OR STAFF AUGMENTATION AND HOW THE CITY OF HOUSTON HAS UTILIZED THIS FIRST SLIDE. SO, WHO ENCOMPASSES PLAN REVIEW? PLAN REVIEW IS A COMPREHENSIVE MULTI-DISCIPLINE REVIEW TEAM ACROSS KEY DEPARTMENTS FOR RESIDENTIAL, COMMERCIAL, AND PUBLIC DEVELOPMENT. UH, IT'S, IT'S, UH, COMPARABLE TO DALLAS, UM, WHO ALSO HAS DISCIPLINES. UM, BUT DALLAS IS A LOT SMALLER. UH, FOR FISCAL YEAR, UH, 2025, WE REVIEWED OVER 60,000 UNIQUE PROJECTS. UH, BUT WE PERFORMED 85,000 PROJECT REVIEWS, MEANING THAT AT LEAST 25,000 PROJECTS OF THAT 60 WERE REVIEWED MORE THAN ONCE. UM, BACK UP A LITTLE BIT, IF IT'S OKAY. TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE DEPARTMENTS THAT ARE WITHIN PLAN REVIEW. YOU GOT THE PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT, HOUSTON FIRE DEPARTMENT BUILDING CODE ENFORCEMENT UNDER HOUSTON PUBLIC WORKS OFFICE OF THE CITY ENGINEER UNDER HOUSTON PUBLIC WORKS, AND OUR HOUSTON HEALTH DEPARTMENT. THOSE ARE THE FIVE DEPARTMENTS THAT ARE INVOLVED IN THIS. THE PARKS DEPARTMENT IS ALSO INVOLVED, BUT THEY ARE THROUGH, THEY, THEY RECEIVE THEIR REVIEWS THROUGH THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT. UM, BEGINNING OF FISCAL YEAR 2026, OUR SERVICE LEVEL AGREEMENT FOR, UH, PLAN REVIEW WAS, UM, REDUCED FROM 10 DAYS FOR RESIDENTIAL AND 15 DAYS TO COMMERCIAL TO 17 DAYS ACROSS THE BOARD, MEANING ALL PROJECTS REVIEWED MUST BE, UH, 80% OF THOSE PROJECTS MUST BE REVIEWED IN SEVEN DAYS OR LESS. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. SO, TALKING A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, UH, PLAN REVIEW AND, AND, AND THE CODE ENFORCEMENT, UH, OUR RESPONSIBILITY IS TO REVIEW AND APPROVE CONSTRUCTION PROJECT PLANS TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE WITH ALL APPLICABLE BUILDING CODES AND LIFE SAFETY REGULATIONS BEFORE PERMITS ARE ISSUED. THIS PROCESS VERIF VERIFIES STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY AND ENSURES PROJECTS MEET ESTABLISHED SAFETY STANDARDS. IN 2022, WE EXPANDED THE, OUR STAFF AUGMENTATION FOR BUILDING CODE ENFORCEMENT TO INCLUDE STRUCTURAL, ELECTRICAL, AND PLUMBING DISCIPLINES. AND THOSE DISCIPLINES WERE, THOSE REVIEWS WERE HELPED IN OUR, UH, REVAMPED AFTER HOURS PROGRAM, UH, WHICH YOU, YOU MAY KNOW AS A FORMER, UH, CUSTOMER PAID OVERTIME PROGRAM, UH, RESUBMISSION AND FIRST TIME COMMERCIAL REVIEWS. [00:05:02] SO IN THE OFFICE OF THE CITY ENGINEER, WE ALSO USE A STAFF AUGMENTATIONS FOR VARIOUS, VARIOUS PURPOSES. SO, UH, AS YOU KNOW, OUR OFFICE IS TASKED WITH REVIEWING ALL THE PROJECTS THAT HAVE ANY TYPE OF IMPACT IN THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY THAT, UH, INCLUDES INFRASTRUCTURE LIKE WATER, WASTEWATER, UM, TRAFFIC, UH, ASSETS IN THE RIGHT OF WAY. ALSO, THE FLOODPLAIN MANAGEMENT OFFICE IS UNDER THE UMBRELLA OF THE, UH, OFFICE OF THE CITY ENGINEER. VERY IMPORTANT OFFICE TO LOOK INTO. AND THAT CONDUCTS MANY, MANY PLAN REVIEWS UNDER THESE CATEGORIES. UM, OVERALL, WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ENSURING THAT THERE IS COMPLIANCE WITH THE LOCAL AND STATE LEVEL REGULATIONS, MINERALS, AND ALL THE GUIDELINES THAT WE ALREADY HAVE IN PLACE. UM, ON THIS OFFICE OF THE CITY ENGINEER, WE SPECIFICALLY HAVE USED STAFF AUGMENTATION TO REVIEW PLANS THAT ARE WE, UH, AND WE NEED TO MOVE TO THE NEXT SLIDE. I'M SORRY. I JUST REALIZED YOU ARE IN THE PREVIOUS ONE. UH, THE DIS DISCIPLINES WHERE WE HAVE USER STAFF AUGMENTATION ARE TRAFFIC AND MOBILITY. UH, STONE WATER, UH, AGAIN, THE FLOODPLAIN MANAGEMENT OFFICE, UH, CONDUCTS REVIEWS THAT IS USE STAFF AUGMENTATION TO, AND CURRENTLY WE ARE ENGAGING INTO RESOURCES THAT ARE GONNA ASSIST US REVIEWING TELECOMMUNICATIONS PLANS THAT ARE INCREASING, UM, SIGNIFICANTLY RECENTLY, AND ALSO ENCOURAGEMENT APPLICATIONS. I WANNA ALSO MEN MENTION THAT WE HAVE A SPECIAL PROGRAMS LIKE THE, UH, COMMUNITY RATING SYSTEM CRS YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH IS PART OF THE FLOOD PLAN MANAGEMENT OFFICE, AND IS VERY, VERY CRITICAL FOR OUR RESIDENTS TO GET THE FLOOD INSURANCE DISCOUNT, UM, THAT WE GET RIGHT NOW ARE IN CLASS FIVE. AND LOOKING INTO MOVING INTO A CLASS FOUR, UH, GOING FROM 30 TO 25% DISCOUNT THAT DEMANDS SEVERAL RESOURCES THROUGHOUT THE YEAR TO DOING INTENSIVE RESEARCH, REVIEW ALL OUR, UH, ELEVATION CERTIFICATES, CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS AND SO ON, TO BE ABLE TO UPDATE THIS PLAN AND BE SURE THAT WE GET CLASSIFIED PROPERLY AND THAT WE CAN COMMUNICATE AND, UH, MEET WITH THE REQUIREMENTS, UH, THAT FEMA AND THE FEDERAL AND STATE REGULATIONS HAVE IN PLACE. SO WE DO USE STAFF AUGMENTATION FOR THIS EFFORT. UM, ALSO IN THE STANDARDS AND SPECIFIC REVIEW, UM, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE KEEP UP WITH TECHNOLOGY AND WITH THE LATEST PRACTICES IN THE ENGINEERING, UM, UH, REQUIREMENTS FOR BOTH DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION. SO WE ARE EXPANDING INTO USING SOME OF THESE RESOURCES TO HELP US PARTIALLY WITH THESE, WITH THESE TASKS. NEXT SLIDE. OKAY. UH, HERE ARE THE FOUR DIFFERENT STAFF AUGMENTATION CONTRACTS THAT WE'VE USED. WE HAVE OUR MICHAEL BAKER WHO, UH, WE'RE CURRENTLY STILL OFFICE OF THE CITY ENGINEERS, CURRENTLY STILL UTILIZING SINCE 2020. WE HAVE ASANI WHO WE, WE FINISHED UTILIZING THEM AS OF JANUARY, 2023, AND RECENTLY IN APRIL, EARLIER THIS YEAR, WE, UM, NO LONGER USE BVNA, UH, VERSUS THE ONE THAT WE'VE CURRENTLY BEEN USING SINCE, UH, MID, MID 2023, AND CURRENTLY USED TODAY. THAT IS THEY'RE BEING UTILIZED IN STORMWATER, FLOOD, AND TRAFFIC FOR UNDER THE OFFICE OF THE C CITY ENGINEER, STRUCTURAL ELECTRICAL UNDER BUILDING CODE ENFORCEMENT. THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT USED TO ALSO UTILIZE THEM. THEY HAVE PAUSED, UH, UTILIZATION OF THIRD PARTY FROM VERSA AT THIS POINT. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. SO, TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE CHALLENGES THAT WE HAVE WITH THIRD PARTY. UM, AS OF FY 20 END OF FY 25, WE HAD APPROXIMATELY 122 VACANCIES AT HOUSTON PERMANENT CENTER, WHICH REPRESENTS JUST OVER 20% OF A VACANCY FACTOR, UH, WITHIN OUR PLAN REVIEW TEAM, 15.5% OF THAT WAS, UM, PLAN REVIEW. UM, SO STAFFING'S ALWAYS BEEN AN ISSUE, CONTINUES TO BE AN IF ISSUE. WE ARE WORKING HARD TO STAFF OUR POSITIONS AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE AND TO GET MORE PEOPLE ON ONLINE, YOU KNOW, ONLINE TO HELP US WITH OUR REVIEWS. UH, ANOTHER ISSUE THAT WE RUN INTO IS FUNDING. UH, FUNDING. UH, WHEN I SPEAK ABOUT THAT, I'M TALKING ABOUT OUR, OUR, OUR GENERAL, UH, EXCUSE ME, THE GENERAL FUND DEPARTMENTS, WHICH IS YOUR PLANNING DEPARTMENT AND YOUR HEALTH AND FIRE DEPARTMENTS. THEY DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE FUNDING AVAILABLE TO THEM TO DO, UH, TO UTILIZE THIRD PARTY, WHEREAS WE ARE A SPECIAL REVENUE FUND AND WE UTILIZE OUR, THOSE FEES AND REVENUE FROM THAT TO, TO HAVE OFFSET THAT. UM, LIKE, LIKE ANY ISSUE, LIKE ANY NEW HIRE, YOU KNOW, TRAINING IS ALWAYS, UH, YOU KNOW, IT TAKES THEM A WHILE BEFORE SOMEBODY IS FULLY EFFICIENT AND ROUGHLY IT'S ANYWHERE FROM 12 TO 18 MONTHS UNTIL WHEN WE HIRE SOMEBODY THAT WE ARE FULLY THAT PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL'S FULLY EFFICIENT AND CAN RUN, RUN AND, AND BE ABLE TO REVIEW THESE PLANS OFFICIALLY. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. SO, HERE'S JUST A COST OF STAFF AUGMENTATION CONTRACTS, KIND OF IN A COMPARISON. [00:10:01] WHAT YOU'LL SEE ON THIS FIRST SLIDE IS, UH, BOTH OF THESE ARE PLAN REVIEW ONE'S PLAN REVIEW THE OTHER'S ENGINEERING, AND ROUGHLY, UM, OUR, WE ARE PAYING THREE TIMES MORE FOR STAFF AUGMENTATION, UH, SERVICES THAN WE ARE FOR PLANT REGULAR EMPLOYEES FROM PLAN REVIEW. UM, THE SAME APPLY, WELL, IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT, BUT IT'S, UH, ALMOST HALF OF WHAT IT IS FOR ENGINEERING, WHICH, UH, WHAT I REALLY WANNA POINT OUT IS THE $49 THAT YOU SEE HERE IS, IS AN OUTDATED, UM, COST. AND WE NEED TO DO IT. WE ARE DOING A, UH, COST COMPARISON AND ALSO, UM, LOOKING AT AND FIGURING OUT WHAT THAT TRUE NUMBER SHOULD BE. YOU SEE THAT ENGINEERING'S A LOT MORE CLOSER TO WHAT WE ARE PAYING THIRD PARTY. BUT YOU SEE THE, THE DISPARITY BETWEEN THE TWO OF PLAN REVIEW WHEN IT'S BASICALLY ABOUT THREE TIMES MORE. UM, ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE, YOU'LL SEE MICHAEL BAKER, WE'VE U UTILIZED JUST ABOUT 25% OF, UH, STA OF THE CONTRACT CAPACITY. BUREAU OF VERITAS, UM, IS PRETTY MUCH, IT'S BEEN NO LONGER UTIL WE'RE NOT UTILIZING THAT ANYMORE. AND VERSA, WE'RE ROUGHLY ABOUT SEVEN, YOU KNOW, JUST UNDER HALF. UM, OF, OF THAT CONTRACT CAPACITY HAS BEEN UTILIZED TO DATE. VERSAS, UH, CONTRACT EXPIRES IN 2020 JUNE OF 2028 BV AND A, UH, EXPIRED JUST RECENTLY. AND MICHAEL BAKER CONTRACT EXPIRES IN JANUARY, 2027. DO YOU WANNA SAY SOMETHING MORE? SO ADDING UP TO THE, TO THE, YOU LOOK AT THE CHART ON YOUR LEFT WHERE WE SEE THAT DISCREPANCY, YOU'LL WONDER WHY THE ENGINEERING HAS LESS DISCREPANCY THAT PLAN REVIEW. AND AS RUDY IS EXPLAINING, MANY FACTORS REALLY AFFECT THAT. BUT ONE THING TO TOUCH IS THAT, UH, THE ENGINEERING JOB, CLASSIFICATION FAMILY WITH THE CITY HAS UNDERGONE MULTIPLE REVIEWS, SALARY ADJUSTMENTS THAT HAVE HELPED SOME WITH THAT COST. SO WE ARE NOT AS FAR FROM THE MARKET AS WE WERE 10, 15 YEARS AGO. HOWEVER, THERE IS STILL A BIG DISCREPANCY AND DIFFERENCE, ESPECIALLY WITH OTHER PUBLIC AGENCIES, WHICH IS OUR BIG CONCERN. WE KNOW AS A PUBLIC AGENCY, WE'RE NOT GONNA COMPETE WITH THE PRIVATE SECTOR ONE-ON-ONE, BUT WHEN WE LOSE PERSONNEL TO OTHER PUBLIC AGENCIES AND COUNTIES IN THE SURROUNDING AREA, THAT IS VERY, VERY CONCERNING FOR US. I JUST MENTIONED THAT THEY HAVING EFFORTS TO MAKE THAT, UH, DIFFERENCE SMALLER, BUT IT'S STILL NOT SUFFICIENT. AND WE SEE THIS UNFORTUNATELY VERY OFTEN WHERE WE PERSONNEL, UH, LEAVES THE CITY TO WORK WITH OTHER AGENCIES BECAUSE OF THE PAY. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. THIS IS A REALLY IMPORTANT SLIDE. UM, THIS IS HOW WE UTILIZE IN OUR STAFF AUGMENTATION. THIS IS FOR FY 25. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING I WANNA POINT OUT IS THE AMOUNT OF WORK BEING PERFORMED BY CITY STAFF PLUS OUR THIRD PARTY STAFF AUGMENTATION CONTRACTS. WE ARE NOT EATING INTO OUR BALANCE OF PLANS THAT ARE IN THE QUEUE, WHICH ESSENTIALLY WE ALMOST BROKE. EVEN IF YOU LOOK AT THE VERY BEGINNING, WE STARTED FY 25 AT JUST OVER 400 PLANS IN THE SYSTEM. WE, WE TOOK IN 2,800 PLANS IN THE FIRST QUARTER, BUT WE DID ROUGHLY ABOUT THE SAME AMOUNT. SO WHERE I'M REALLY GOING WITH THIS IS WITH THIRD PARTY STAFF AUGMENTATION CONTRACTS. WE'RE JUST MAINTAINING. WE ARE TREADING WATER, WE ARE NOT ABLE TO DEPLETE AND, AND REDUCE THIS ENDING BACKLOG. SO NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. AND THIS IS JUST KIND OF SAME THING, TALKING ABOUT THE REVIEWS, THE NUMBER OF REVIEWS, PROJECTS WORKS. THIS IS WHERE JUST RE RELYING ON OUR THIRD PARTY AGAIN TO MAINTAIN. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. HOW TO PHASE DOWN. YOU KNOW, AS WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, STAFF AUGMENTATION, DEPENDENCY, WE WOULD LIKE TO PHASE THAT DOWN AND REDUCE OUR DEPENDENCY. UM, WE BELIEVE WE NEED TO, UH, HAVE A ROBUST HIRING PLAN AND ADDITIONAL STAFFING, WHICH IS COMPETITIVE PAY, AS YOU HEARD A SECOND AGO FROM MS. CLARK, UH, WITH THE MARKET. YOU KNOW, MORE IMPORTANTLY, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO BE, UH, COMPETING WITH OUR COUNTERPARTS, OUR HARRIS COUNTIES, OUR METROS, OUR FLOOD CONTROLS, OTHER MUNICIPALITIES THROUGHOUT, THROUGHOUT THE CITY OF HOUSTON. UH, WE NEED TO STRENGTHEN OUR PAY SCALES AND, AND HAVE CAREER LADDER OPPORTUNITIES. UH, WE NEED RETENTION INCENTIVES. WE NEED TO FIND A WAY TO KEEP KEEP THE STAFF HERE. UM, AND OF COURSE, WE NEED A COMPREHENSIVE TRAINING PROGRAM THAT INCLUDES CROSS TRAINING AND, AND WE WANT TO EXPAND AND MODERNIZE DIGITAL REVIEW AND REVIEW TOOLS, WHICH AS WE'VE BEEN WORKING, WE'RE WORKING WITH SEVERAL DIFFERENT AI UH, COMPANIES TALKING TO HOW WE CAN UTILIZE THEIR SERVICES. YES. UM, SO ALL OF THESE ARE METHODS INITIATIVES THAT WE ARE NOT JUST LOOKING AT IN A PIECE OF PAPER. WE'RE WORKING IN TO SEE HOW, ESPECIALLY THROUGH THE PUBLIC WORKS REORGANIZATION, HOW WE ADD RESOURCES IN A FEASIBLE AND RESPONSIBLE MANNER. SO ALL THESE EFFORTS ARE, ARE, ARE MOVING ALONG, BUT WE DON'T NEED THE SUPPORT SPECIFICALLY [00:15:01] WITH THESE, UM, THE STAFFING, THE RECRUITING, THE FAIR COMPENSATION, AND ALL THESE INITIATIVES THAT REQUIRE INVOLVEMENT FROM VARIOUS DEPARTMENTS AND THE CITY ITSELF TO SUPPORT US ON IT. UM, SOMETHING I WANNA MENTION IS TO ALSO, WE NEED TO KEEP IN MIND ALL THE EFFORTS ARE, ARE GOING ON RIGHT NOW IN INITIATIVES LIKE THE 30 DAY, UH, PERMIT PROGRAM. WE HAVE REDUCED, RUDY MENTIONED OUR SERVICE LEVEL AGREEMENT TO SEVEN DAYS. SO WE, WE ARE BEING, UM, TASKED AND WE ARE SO MUCH COMMITTED TO SERVE THE PUBLIC AND BE SURE THAT WE MEET THESE TIMELINES. UH, NOT NECESSARILY LOOKING ONLY AT TIME, BUT ALSO THE QUALITY OF THESE REVIEWS. WE WANNA BE SURE THAT WE'RE CONCENTRATED ON QUANTITY, BUT ALSO ON QUALITY. AND FOR THAT WE DO NEED THE RIGHT RESOURCES. STAFF AUGMENTATION HAS BEEN GOOD SUPPORT FOR US, BUT WE KNOW THAT, UM, FINANCIALLY WE DO NEED TO FACE DOWN, UM, THIS, THIS TYPE OF TOOL. AND THESE ARE, THESE ARE STRATEGIES THAT WE KNOW ARE NECESSARY AND WE NEED THE SUPPORT OVERALL FROM THE CITY TO MAKE THEM HAPPEN. I THINK THAT'S ALL WE HAVE. THAT'S THE LAST SLIDE. SO WE ARE OPEN FOR QUESTIONS. THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION. WE HAVE, UH, SEVERAL PEOPLE IN THE QUEUE. COUNCILWOMAN ALCORN. THANK YOU CHAIR. AND THANKS FOR THE PRESENTATION. I WAS JUST LOOKING BACK AT THE, UH, THE 23 PRESENTATION ON STAFF AUGMENTATION. I MEAN, WE OBVIOUSLY NEEDED THEM TO CATCH UP AND WE'VE HAD, WE'VE HAD TO HAVE THEM TO JUST MAINTAIN, AS YOU SAID, AND NOT FALL, BE FAR BEHIND. UH, ON THE STAFFING. YOU SAID 120 DOWN, I KNOW WHEN WE'VE TALKED ABOUT INSPECTIONS AND EVERYTHING, THAT WAS LIKE IN THE 50. JUST KIND OF, CAN YOU BREAK DOWN THAT ONE 20 OF HOW IS THAT, HOW MANY WOULD BE LIKE IN PLAN REVIEW AND, AND THE THINGS, HOW MANY ARE YOU, HOW MANY VACANCIES IN, IN THE TYPES OF WORK THAT ARE BEING CONDUCTED BY THESE THIRD PARTY? NOT ALL ONE 20. THAT'S CORRECT. RIGHT? NOPE, THAT IS CORRECT. UM, I'M TRYING TO FIND IT HERE. WE DIDN'T, DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE IT BROKEN DOWN INTO BY, UH, CLASSIFICATIONS RIGHT. AS MUCH AS WE DO, WE'RE LIKE, WE LOST, UM, 69 PEOPLE TO RETIREMENTS, RIGHT. UM, WE HAVE SOME, WE'VE HAD 29 RESIGNATIONS AND, UH, OF 16 TRANSFERS, AND THEN OF COURSE OTHERS WERE, COULD BE A DEATH OR DISCHARGE OR, YOU KNOW, NOT A REHIRE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. SO IT'S, RIGHT, IT COMPRISES OF ABOUT 24, 20 0.4% OR SO. OKAY. SO TO THE EXTENT, LIKE, IT'D BE HELPFUL FOR ME TO HAVE AN IDEA OF HOW MANY WERE LACK, WHAT YOU'VE DONE IN ANOTHER PRESENTATION, HOW MANY WERE LACKING ON LIKE, KIND OF NUISANCE CODE ENFORCEMENT KIND OF STUFF. AND THEN HOW MANY WERE LACKING IN, IN THESE TYPES OF FUNCTIONS. MM-HMM . AT THE THIRD PARTY THING, SO YOU CAN GET THAT TO ME LATER, BUT STILL, UM, DOWN 20% OVERALL IS, IS A LOT. YOU'RE BASICALLY AN ENTERPRISE FUND. YOU KNOW, YOU'RE, YOU'RE PAID FOR WITH YOUR FEE BASED, YOU KNOW, AND, AND I, UM, WHEN'S THE LAST TIME THAT, UM, PERMITTING FEES HAVE BEEN ADJUSTED? IT WAS ADJUSTED IN 17, 20 15, EXCUSE ME, TO 10 YEAR, 10 YEARS AGO. RIGHT. WE, WE MADE IT, WE ADJUSTED. SO THERE'S ALL KINDS OF THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED. AND IF YOU LOOK AT, AT TRYING TO KEEP UP WITH STAFF, I'M ASSUMING THAT SINCE YOU HAD IT ON SLIDE 10, HARRIS COUNTY, FLOOD CONTROL, METRO, ALL THESE OTHER MUNICIPALITIES, WOULD, IS IT FAIR TO SAY WE LAG BEHIND THEM ALL IN AN HOURLY? THAT IS CORRECT. AND, AND IT, AND IT, ARE THERE FEES, UM, ADJUSTED MORE REGULARLY OR, I MEAN, WHAT CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT THOSE OTHER ENTITIES? I MEAN, I, I CAN'T SPEAK TOWARDS THE, THE OTHER ENTITIES, BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT WHEN WE DO EXIT INTERVIEWS ON, YOU KNOW SURE. EMPLOYEES THAT ARE LEAVING, MOST, MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, THEY'RE GOING TO OTHER GOVERNMENTAL, UH, ENTITIES OR MUNICIPALITIES. UH, MANY, SOMETIMES IT'S FOR MORE MONEY, RIGHT? IT'S A FLEXIBLE SCHEDULE WORKING FROM HOME. I BELIEVE METRO AND HARRIS COUNTY ARE STILL WORKING REMOTELY. YEAH. UH, SO THERE'S JUST OTHER OPPORTUNITIES. OKAY. AND, AND SURE. OR AT, AT ALSO THE STRESS LEVEL AND YEAH, WE SEE A, A AN ABUNDANCE OF PLANS THAT WE SEE. AND NOT ONLY DO WE LOSE PEOPLE TO MUNICIPALITIES, WE LOSE PEOPLE EVEN WITHIN PUBLIC WORKS TO OTHER SERVICE LEVELS, RIGHT. BECAUSE THE STRESS LEVEL IS NOWHERE AND THE DEMAND IS NOWHERE NEAR WHAT IT IS AT HPC. SO WHILE I UNDERSTAND YOUR, YOUR, UH, SENSE OF, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOTTA SAVE MONEY AND WE'RE PAYING THREE TIMES THE GOING RATE, WE NEED TO KNOCK DOWN SOME OF THESE STAFF AUGMENTATION THINGS. I WOULD ARGUE THAT LIKE , I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU CAN, I MEAN, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU HAVE IN SOME AREAS IN PLANNING, BUT IN STORM, I, I GOTTA TELL YOU, I GET WAY FEWER COMPLAINTS ABOUT STORM THAN I USED TO. SO IT MUST BE HELPING. I MEAN, SO KEEP THAT GOING IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE STAFF TO DO IT. AND THEN IN, UM, IN WHERE ELSE ARE YOU KEEPING IT GOING IN? UH, CODE ENFORCEMENT AND [00:20:01] ENGINEERING PLAN REVIEWS? STORM WATER AND IT'S, UH, STRUCTURAL AND TRAFFIC TRAFFIC IS STILL GOING ON BY MICHAEL BAKER. YEAH. OKAY. OKAY. UH, I JUST WANNA MAKE, YEAH, I MEAN THAT'S, THAT'S THE STORY. WE EITHER PAY, I MEAN, PEOPLE ARE LIKE, AH, PRIVATIZE IT OR GET THIRD PARTIES TO DO EVERYTHING. WELL, YOU'RE GONNA PAY THAT WAY. AND IF WE NEED TO GET DO IT, IF WE'RE GONNA DO IT OUR WAY, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO PAY PEOPLE MORE TO GET PEOPLE TO COME AND, AND, AND STAY. SO IS THERE ANYTHING IN THE CODE OR ANYTHING THAT, THAT REQUIRES A, A REVIEW OF FEES EVERY SO OFTEN? I KNOW A LOT OF OUR FEE STRUCTURES ARE GOVERNED BY CODE. I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S CODIFIED. HOWEVER, WE ARE IN THE PROCESS OF DOING A COST OF SERVICE STUDY. YOU ARE JUST STARTED THAT. SO, YES. JUST STARTED. AND WHAT'S THE, WELL, WE'RE GOING THROUGH THAT PROCUREMENT PROCESS IN OH, OKAY. SO IT HASN'T REALLY STARTED, STARTED, THE WORK HASN'T, HASN'T STARTED, STARTED, BUT THE TIME STEP IS SOMETHING WE WANNA DO. THE TIMELINE ON THAT IS ANOTHER YEAR OUT. THINK YEAR, YEAR AND A HALF. OKAY. RIGHT. OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I, I'D ALSO LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT AS I KNOW I'VE SAID THIS BEFORE, UH, IN PREVIOUS, UH, PRESENTATIONS, BUT WE LOSE MONEY AFTER THE SECOND REVIEW, SO WE ARE LOSING MONEY. SO WE WANT EV WE WANT TO, HENCE THE REASON WHY WE WENT TO A APPROVED IN TWO CONCEPT WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO APPROVE THESE PLANS IN TWO, SO WE'RE BREAKING EVEN. BUT TO, TO WHAT WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT RELATED TO THE COST OF SERVICE STUDY, IT'S IMPERATIVE THAT WE DO THAT TO FIND OUT, YOU KNOW, TO DETERMINE WHAT THE TRUE COSTS ARE AND IS THE CUSTOMER PAID OVERTIME DEAL WORKING WELL, ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF IT? YEAH, IT'S WORKING VERY WELL. THE CHALLENGE WITH THAT IS WE DON'T HAVE THE STAFF TO, TO MAN TO MAINTAIN IT. SO WHERE SOMEONE MAY REQUEST AN ELECTRICAL REVIEW, THERE MAY NOT BE AN ELECTRICAL REVIEWER THAT EVENING TO DO THAT REVIEW. I'M JUST USING THAT ONE AS AN EXAMPLE. IT COULD BE ANY OTHER DISCIPLINE ALSO. OKAY. THANKS RUDY. ALSO WANNA ADD ON THAT JUST COUNCIL MEMBER, WE ARE, WE, WHEN THE PROGRAM WAS ESTABLISHED, THERE WERE GROUPS THAT WERE NOT PART OF IT, LIKE THE OFFICE OF THE CITY ENGINEER AND OTHERS, UH, INFRASTRUCTURE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. SO WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO WORKING WITH OUR DIRECTOR ON EXPANDING THAT, AND HOPEFULLY I'LL COME TO YOU SOON. GREAT. FOR APPROVAL. YEAH. WE, WE NEED IT FOR ALL DISCIPLINES. THANKS COUNCILWOMAN PECK. THANK YOU, CHAIR. THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION AND THANK YOU FOR THE WORK THAT BOTH OF YOU DO AND EVERYONE IN THE DEPARTMENT. WE, UM, DEFINITELY GET A LOT FEWER COMPLAINTS, UM, ABOUT THE TIMEFRAME. SO THANK YOU SO MUCH. AND WE'VE SEEN A REALLY POSITIVE CHANGE. UM, JUST TO CLARIFY A QUESTION THAT COUNCIL MEMBER ALCORN ASKED THE FEES, SO THERE, NONE OF THE FEES FOR PERMITTING IS PART OF THE, UM, THE ANNUAL FEE ADJUSTMENT THAT THE CITY DOES ON MANY OF THE FEES THAT'S SEPARATE FROM THAT THEY ARE THIS STATE, BUT YOU'RE STILL DOING A STUDY FROM SEEING FROM 2015 WHAT THE FEES SHOULD BE NOW IN 2025. SO THAT HASN'T BEEN INCREASED EVERY YEAR AUTOMATICALLY IT'S BEEN INCREASED BY THE CPI, CORRECT. THE CPI, THE CPI ADJUSTMENT. OKAY. BUT NOT JUST, SO THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. GOT IT. THANK YOU. UM, AND THEN FOR THE PHASE DOWN, UM, IS THERE A TIMELINE ON PHASING DOWN THE AUGMENTATION? AGAIN, IT'S ALL DEPENDENT ON HIRING, YOU KNOW, HIRING STAFF AS QUICKLY AS WE CAN GET 'EM. WE NEED TO FILL SOME OF THESE POSITIONS SO WE CAN GET THEM FULLY TRAINED AND, AND SO THEY'RE AS EFFICIENT AS POSSIBLE SO WE CAN REDUCE DOWN THAT DEPENDENCY. UM, I WOULD SAY WE WOULD LOVE TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, START PHASING THIS DOWN IN THE NEXT 12 TO 18 MONTHS. UM, BUT RIGHT NOW, AS, AS I STATED A FEW SLIDES BACK, YOU KNOW, WE'RE JUST MAINTAINING WITH THE USE OF THIRD PARTY NOW WE'RE STRATEGIZING INTERNALLY AND WITH OUR PARTNERING, UH, UH, CONSULTANTS TO FIGURE OUT, YOU KNOW, WHERE'S THE, WHAT'S THE BEST, UH, WHAT'S THE BEST USE OF THEIR SERVICES SHOULD DO, MAYBE, DO WE USE 'EM MORE IN, UM, THE FRONT END WORK OR DO WE USE 'EM MORE IN THE, UH, RESUBMITTAL? SO WE'RE, WE'RE KIND OF STRATEGIZING ON THAT, ON WHAT WOULD BE THE BEST USE AND WHAT GIVES US THE BEST BANG FOR OUR BUCK. AND THERE'S NO PLANS TO END THE, UM, CONTRACTING, UM, UNTIL WE HAVE THIS PLAN IN PLACE. IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY, GREAT. THANK YOU. AND STAFF FROM MAYOR PRO TEM CASTEX TATUM, THANK YOU CHAIR, AND THANK YOU DIRECTOR MORENO AND, UM, MS. CLARK FOR THE PRESENTATION. AND, UM, MAYOR PRO TEM CASTEX TATUM APPRECIATES THE WORK THAT, UM, PUBLIC WORKS DOES, UM, AND WHAT ALL THE TEAM DOES, YOU KNOW, OUT THERE IN YOUR RESPONSE. UM, WE APPRECIATE THE INITIATIVES THAT WERE, THAT ARE IN PLACE, THE, YOU KNOW, THE 30 DAY AND ALSO, UM, THE SEVEN BUSINESS DAY. UM, REVIEW A QUESTION ON THAT. IN THE EVENT THAT, UM, LET'S SAY PLANS ARE NOT REVIEWED WITHIN SEVEN DAYS, WHAT IS THE COURSE OF ACTION TO TAKE? SO THAT'S A GOAL. UH, RIGHT NOW IT'S 80% IN SEVEN DAYS OR LESS. UH, I WANNA SPEAK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT. UM, IT'S SEVEN DAYS OR LESS FOR THE REVIEW. THAT'S, THAT'S SEVEN DAYS FROM THE TIME YOU SUBMIT IT UNTIL THE TIME WE SUBMIT IT BACK TO YOU. [00:25:01] WE HAVE ONE DAY AT THE FRONT END ON THE ROUTING, AND WE HAVE ONE DAY AT THE BACK END TO, TO ACTUALLY ROUTE IT OUT, WHICH MEANS IN REALITY IT'S FIVE DAYS FOR THE, FOR EACH DISCIPLINE TO DO THOSE REVIEWS. UM, WE HAVE TO ROUTE THAT AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE TO ALLOW THE, THE TEAM, THE REVIEWERS AMPLE TIME TO BE ABLE TO PERFORM THEIR REVIEWS. BUT IT'S A CHALLENGE, AND THAT'S PART OF THE STAFFING ISSUE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO, IF, IF, IF MY ROUTING TEAM AT THE FRONT END TAKES TWO DAYS TO ROUTE, I'VE NOW TAKEN 20% OF THAT PLAN REVIEW TIME FROM THAT NEXT TEAM. SO IT'S IMPERATIVE THAT WE GET THESE ROUTED AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE TO, TO THOSE TEAMS SO THEY CAN BE REVIEWED IN THE DISCIPLINES, AND THEN OF COURSE, ONE DAY ON THE BACK END TO BE ROUTED OUT. OKAY. THANK YOU FOR THAT. AND THEN I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION. UM, WITH REGARDS TO, UM, UH, STAFF AUGMENTATION, YOU MENTIONED THAT THAT'S AT, WITH THE USE OF THAT YOU'RE MAINTAINING, CORRECT. SO WHAT DOES THE BACKLOG LOOK LIKE? WHAT IS THE STATUS OF, OF THOSE ITEMS THAT ARE IN BACKLOG? I CAN GET THAT INFORMA THAT, THOSE NUMBERS TO YOU, BUT IT'S, IT'S ROUGHLY, UH, PROBABLY AROUND A THOUSAND PLANS THAT ARE IN THE QUEUE RIGHT NOW. OKAY. THANK YOU. AND ONE MORE, IF I MAY CHAIR. YES, THANK YOU. NOW, NOW THAT BEING SAID, I DO WANT TO SAY THAT AT OUR PEAK WE WERE HAD ALMOST 5,000 PLANS IN OUR SYSTEM, SO MM-HMM . YOU KNOW, IN ADDITION TO THE FACT THAT, UH, WE ARE MAINTAINING THE, THE ECONOMY HAS BEEN DOWN, SO WE HAVEN'T SEEN NOWHERE NEAR THE AMOUNT OF SUBMITTALS THAT WE'VE SEEN HAS HISTORICALLY IN THE PAST. THANK YOU, DIRECTOR. THANK YOU. AND ONE MORE. UM, SO WITH THE TALK OF ARTIFICIAL ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE BEING A PART OF PROCESSES, UM, ARE THERE ANY CONSIDERATION WITH USING ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE? WE'RE IN DISCUSSIONS RIGHT NOW WITH, UH, TWO DIFFERENT COMPANIES REGARDING ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE AND UTILIZING THAT. ONE OF 'EM IS, UH, PROJECT DOCS. YEAH. OTHER ONE'S ARCH, ARCH STAR. UM, BUT THERE'S DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT COMPANIES OUT THERE THAT WE'VE BEEN SPEAKING TO ABOUT THE UTILIZATION OF THEIR, UH, PRODUCT. OKAY. THANK YOU. COUNCILMAN RAMIREZ, STAFF. THANK YOU. THANKS. UM, COUPLE QUESTIONS. SO ON SLIDE SEVEN WHERE IT SHOWS THE, THE BAR GRAPH ABOUT THE HOURLY RATE FOR AN INTERNAL VERSUS AN EXTERNAL STAFF PERSON. UM, SO IS THERE ALSO DATA ON THE HOURLY KINDA WORK PRODUCT? LIKE, IS IT THE SAME NUMBER OF REVIEWS, THE SAME ACCURACY FOR AN INTERNAL VERSUS AN EXTERNAL? OR ARE THERE SOME DIFFERENCES? CAN YOU SAY THAT QUESTION ONE MORE TIME? I'M SORRY. SURE, NO PROBLEM. UM, SO THIS GRAPH, WHICH COMPARES THE, THE HOURLY PAY RATE FOR AN INTERNAL STAFF PERSON VERSUS AN EXTERNAL, IS THERE PERFORMANCE BASICALLY THE SAME? LIKE, DOES AN INTERNAL PERSON REVIEW THE SAME NUMBER OF PERMITS AT THE SAME RATE AS AN EXTERNAL? IS THE ACCURACY KIND OF THE SAME, OR ARE THERE SOME DIFFERENCES? THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION, AND I WOULD TELL YOU THEY'RE PRETTY MUCH EQUAL. OKAY. UH, THEY'RE AN EXTENSION OF US, OF THE CITY, UM, BUT WE'VE LOOKED AT THAT AND THEY MAINTAIN A BACKLOG THEMSELVES. SO, UM, MY HOPE WAS THAT WHEN WE ARE SUBMITTING THESE PLANS OR, OR FORWARDING THEM TO STAFF AUGMENTATION FOR THEM TO DO THESE REVIEWS, THEY'RE NOT SEEING THE DAY-TO-DAY CUSTOMERS. THEY'RE NOT HAVING TO ANSWER THE PHONE. THEY MAY HAVE ONE-OFFS. SO THE IDEA WOULD BE THAT WE WOULD GET A LITTLE MORE ON OUR RETURN FOR THE AMOUNT OF REVIEWS, BUT IT TYPICALLY, ON AVERAGE, IT'S ROUGHLY ABOUT A, A ONE FOR ONE REVIEW. OKAY. UM, AND SO IS THE THOUGHT THAT IN A YEAR OR A YEAR AND A HALF OR WHENEVER THAT THE ENTIRE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT'S CURRENTLY IN THE STAFF AUGMENTATION, THE EXTERNAL FOLKS BE TRANSITIONED TO HIRE INTERNAL FOLKS? OR MIGHT SOME OF THAT FUNDS BE USED FOR SOMETHING ELSE, OR SAVED OR, YEAH, I MEAN, AS WE, AS WE CONTINUE TO HIRE STAFF TO MEET THIS DEMAND, WE WOULD LOVE TO REDUCE THAT DEPENDENCY. SO YES, WE WOULD LOVE TO UTILIZE THE FUNDS THAT ARE CURRENTLY EARMARKED FOR STAFF AUGMENTATION TOWARDS HIRING CITY STAFF. THE ENTIRETY OF, OF BUCKET? YES. OKAY. AND SO IS THE THOUGHT THAT WE MIGHT THEN HAVE MORE PEOPLE OR BECAUSE OF THE PAY DIFFERENTIAL, DO YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? IS THE THOUGHT THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO HIRE MORE PEOPLE THAN WE CURRENTLY HAVE USING THE EXTERNAL FOLKS, OR [00:30:01] NO, BECAUSE WE WANNA BE COMPETITIVE, AND SO WE'D END UP PAYING THE CURRENT RATE THAT WE'RE PAYING THE EXTERNAL FOLKS? I THINK IT'S A COMBINATION OF BOTH. I MEAN, WE'D LIKE TO HIRE MORE PEOPLE. UM, WE'D ALSO LIKE TO INCREASE OUR SALARIES TO BE MORE COMPETITIVE. OKAY. UM, SO, UH, SO WHEN WE LOOK AT PERMITS FOR RESTAURANTS, WHICH I GUESS INCLUDE HEALTH DEPARTMENT AND MAYBE FIRE WHO I GUESS ARE NOT INCLUDED IN SOME OF THIS, UH, STAFF AUGMENTATION BUCKET, UM, ANY, HAS THERE BEEN ANY CONVERSATION WITH THOSE DEPARTMENTS ABOUT THEIR STAFFING NEEDS FOR THAT? OR JUST HOW TO ENHANCE COORDINATION MAYBE WITH SOME OF THEIR TEAMS? ANY THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT? THERE HASN'T NECESSARILY BEEN DISCUSSIONS RELATED TO STAFF AUGMENTATION. HOWEVER, WE ARE, WE'VE ENTER RIGHT NOW, CURRENTLY WE PAY FOR THREE ADDITIONAL HEALTH REVIEWERS. SO WE HAVE AN MOU WITH THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT. WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF CREATING MOU WITH THE FIRE DEPARTMENT TO FUND REVIEWERS ON THEIR BEHALF BECAUSE THEY ARE A GENERAL FUND DEPARTMENT. UH, THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT DOES HAVE, THEY A SMALL PORTION OF THAT, THAT IS A SPECIAL REVENUE WHERE THEY DO GENERATE SOME MM-HMM . REVENUE. SO THEY, THEY'VE PRETTY MUCH BEEN ABLE TO MAINTAIN ON THEIR OWN. BUT THE HEALTH AND FIRE WE HAVE, AGAIN, HEALTH, WE HAVE AN MOU IN PLACE AND FIRE, WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF DOING THAT. AND SO THE FIRE MOU WOULD HIRE NEW PEOPLE OR WOULD JUST FUND THEIR EXISTING PEOPLE. IT, WE WOULD HIRE ADDITIONAL STAFF. ADDITIONAL WOULD BE SOLELY DEDICATED TO THAT EFFORT. GOTCHA. DO I HAVE TIME OR DO YOU WANNA CUT ME OFF? 30 SECONDS. OKAY. UM, SO LAST QUESTION. UH, THE SLIDE WHERE IT SHOWED KIND OF THE MAINTAINING STATUS, RIGHT, WHERE WE KIND OF HAVE THE SAME BACKLOG AS WE DID A, A YEAR AGO. IN ADDITION TO THESE STAFFING CHANGES THAT WILL COME DOWN IN A YEAR AND A YEAR OR A YEAR AND A HALF, WHAT ARE THE TOP COUPLE OF, UM, STRATEGIES, OPERATIONAL CHANGES THAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE IMPLEMENTING TO, TO REDUCE THAT? THE BACKLOG? , ONE OF THE THINGS WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON IS KIND OF MORE OF A STREAMLINED APPROACH WHERE WE HAVE, UH, RIGHT NOW THE, WE HAVE A PLAN REVIEW TEAM AND OFFICE OF THE CITY ENGINEER PLAN, REVIEW TEAM, AND BUILDING CODE ENFORCEMENT. WE HAVE A PLAN REVIEW TEAM AND SIGN ADMINISTRATION. WE HAVE A PLAN REVIEW TEAM WITHIN OUR IDS WITHIN PUBLIC WORKS. UM, SO WE'RE REALLY KIND OF TRYING TO ALIGN MORE FROM A FUNCTIONALITY STANDPOINT TO EXPAND OUR BANDWIDTH. SO WE'RE DOING THAT WITH PLAN REVIEW INSPECTIONS AND PERMITTING, BUT THAT'S SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE LOOKING TO ALIGN AND HELP WITH EFFICIENCY OPPORTUNITIES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION. I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. UH, FIRST OF ALL, I WANTED TO SAY THAT WE'VE GOTTEN A LEAD A LOT OF FEEDBACK ABOUT PERMITTING IT. IT'S ALL BEEN POSITIVE. UM, THE, THE GENERAL CONSENSUS OF THE FEEDBACK WE'VE GOTTEN IS THAT ALTHOUGH THINGS AREN'T WHERE THEY WANT 'EM TO BE, IT IS MOVING THE RIGHT DIRECTION AND THEY SEE IMPROVEMENT AND THEY APPRECIATE IT. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT. UM, YOU TALKED ABOUT, UH, YOUR GOAL WAS TO REVIEW 80% OF PROPOSALS WITHIN SEVEN DAYS. WHERE YOU AT WITH THAT GOAL? I APOLOGIZE, I SHOULD HAVE BROUGHT THAT IN. I DON'T HAVE THAT WITH ME, BUT I MEAN, WE ARE, WE'RE HITTING IT IN SOME CASES. UH, I KNOW OFFICE OF THE CITY ENGINEERS REVIEWING THEIRS IN SEVEN DAY, SEVEN DAYS OR LESS. UH, BUILDING CODE ENFORCEMENT IS STILL STRUGGLING. BUILDING CODE ENFORCEMENT ALSO HAS, UH, THE LARGE NUMBER OF VACANCIES. SO WE ARE STRUGGLING IN THE BUILDING CODE ENFORCEMENT. I WILL TELL YOU, IN HEALTH, FIRE AND PLANNING, THEY'RE NOT MEETING IT. OKAY. SO WE ARE, WE'RE WORKING DILIGENTLY AND AS EFFICIENTLY AS POSSIBLE TO IDENTIFY STREAMLINE AND OPPORTUNITIES TO GET THESE PLANS REVIEWED AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. OKAY. BUT AS, AS, AS MS. CLARK SAID, IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE DON'T SACRIFICE QUALITY FOR, FOR QUANTITY. SURE. ON THE, UH, ENGINEERING, UM, EXPENSE OR THE STAFF AUGMENTATION IN HOUSTON, EMPLOYEES PAID SEVEN, UH, YOU'RE PAYING YOUR ENGINEERS 125,000 A YEAR, $60 AN HOUR. WELL, THAT INCLUDES TOTAL COMPENSATION, AND THAT'S AN AVERAGE. THE ENGINEERING FAMILY'S PRETTY WIDE. PLUS WE USE SEVERAL CLASSIFICATIONS. WE HAVE ENTRY LEVEL ENGINEERS, LICENSE ENGINEERS, SUPERVISORS, ENGINEERS ARE CONDUCTING REVIEWS TOO. UM, SO THIS NUMBER IS A PRETTY BIG PICTURE AVERAGE FOR ALL OF THAT. OKAY. WHAT, WHAT'S STARTING SALARY AT, SO A GRADUATE ENGINEER OR AN ENGINEERING TRAINING, WHICH IS THE FIRST LEVEL, I BELIEVE IS RIGHT NOW AT THE 70,000, CLOSE TO THAT, UH, ONCE YOU'RE A LICENSED ENGINEER, I BELIEVE YOU'RE ON THE EIGHTIES, CLOSE TO 90. UM, AND I CAN GET YOU THOSE NUMBERS TO BE COMPLETELY ACCURATE, BUT THAT'S KIND OF THE, UH, AGAIN, BIG PICTURE SUPERVISORY ENGINEERS ARE RIGHT ABOVE THE A HUNDRED THOUSAND. UH, SO YES, IT VARIES. OKAY. SO THE THINGS THAT THE CHANGE HAS NOT HAPPENED QUICKLY, THIS, THIS WAS RECENTLY UPDATED. WHAT, WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU NEED TO BE AT IN ORDER TO BE MORE COMPETITIVE AND RETAIN MORE AND BE ABLE TO GET CAUGHT UP? UH, I WOULD LIKE TO SHARE WITH YOU SOME [00:35:01] NUMBERS. I DON'T HAVE THEM WITH ME BENCHMARKING NUMBERS THAT WE HAVE DONE WITH OTHER PUBLIC AGENCIES, BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO COMPARE WITH. IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR, CLEARLY THAT'S PROBABLY HALF OF WHERE YOU ARE WITH A PRIVATE FIRM, BUT FOR PUBLIC AGENCIES, THEY'RE LITERALLY ABOUT 20, 30% HIGHER THAN WHAT WE ARE. OKAY. AND, AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT I, I WANNA MAKE A REMARK THAT IF YOU, IF WE THINK ABOUT THE CONCEPT OF PLAN REVIEW, WE ARE, THOSE THAT CONDUCT PLAN REVIEWERS ARE LOOKING AT THE DESIGNS BY OTHER FIRMS, WHETHER IT IS CONTRACTORS, UH, ENGINEERS, CONSTRUCTORS, AND SO ON. SO WE DO NEED A HIGH LEVEL OF EXPERTISE AND KNOWLEDGE TO BE SURE THAT THEY CAN REVIEW SOMEBODY ELSE'S WORK. WELL, THE WAY WE HAVE THE, UM, APPLICATION OF OUR JOB, FAMILIES TO CONDUCT LAB REVIEWS ARE AT THE ENTRY LEVEL, IF NOT A LITTLE HIGHER WHEN YOU GET TO A PROFESSIONAL LICENSING ENGINEER. SO THAT'S SOMETHING JUST TO KEEP IN MIND. BUT YEAH, 20, 30% PROBABLY. BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SHARE WITH YOU THOSE NUMBERS ONCE I GET THEM TABULATED. OKAY. FOR SURE. THANK YOU. MM-HMM . I, I APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. LET'S SEE. OUR, UH, NEXT PRESENTATION IS ON CODE MODERNIZATION UPDATE, PRESENTED BY ALSO AGAIN, RUDY MORENO, DEPUTY DIRECTOR AND RAY RUIZ, SENIOR DIVISION MANAGER. GOOD AFTERNOON, VICE CHAIR AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE OF GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS. MY NAME IS RUDY MORENO, DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF HOUSTON PUBLIC WORKS AT, AND ALSO THE DEPUTY DIRECTOR WITHIN HOUSTON PERMANENT CENTER. I'M ACCOMPANIED TODAY BY MR. RAY RUIZ, WHO IS THE SENIOR DIVISION MANAGER OVER OUR CODE TEAM. UH, HE'LL BE SPEAKING ABOUT THIS PRESENTATION TODAY, AND I'LL BE AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS. UH, AGAIN, MY NAME IS RAY RUIZ, UH, SENIOR DIVISION MANAGER WITH CODE DEVELOPMENT. UH, THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION. CAN GO OVER A FEW SLIDES, UH, AND TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, UH, THE HISTORY OF THE CODE MODERNIZATION OF WHERE WE'RE AT, UH, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE BEING ACCOMPLISHED, UH, SOME OF THE, UH, IMPORTANT THINGS THAT WE WANT TO MAINTAIN, AS WELL AS, UH, WHAT IT IS THAT'S NEXT FOR, UH, CODE MODERNIZATION AND, AND WHERE WE'RE GOING WITH THIS. UH, TO BEGIN WITH, THE FIRST SLIDE THERE WITH THE, UH, THE HISTORY OF IT, UH, THE MOST RECENT CODE ADOPTION THAT WE'VE HAD IS A 2021 CODE MODERNIZATION. THERE WAS A GRANT FUNDED PROGRAM THAT ALLOWED US, UH, TO CATCH UP, UH, IN THIS WAY, IT, THAT PARTICULAR GRANT ALLOWED US TO HIRE, UH, THREE POSITIONS. UH, WE HAD A, UM, A CONSULTANT THAT WE HIRED THAT AT ANY TIME HAD BETWEEN ONE TO 11 PEOPLE WORKING ON IT. ON TOP OF THAT, WE DEDICATED TWO OF OUR, UH, SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS IN THE CO-DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT, UH, TO HELP, UH, SUPPLEMENT THAT. UH, IT ENDED UP BEING, UH, SPANNING OVER TWO YEARS. UH, THERE WAS A LOT OF, UH, STAKEHOLDER ENGAGEMENT. THERE WAS TASK FORCE GROUPS, UH, THAT WERE CREATED, UH, COMMITTEE REVIEWS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE, UH, DID NOT SACRIFICE ANY OF THE MINIMUM, UH, LIFE SAFETY REQUIREMENTS. UH, THERE WERE MANY TRAININGS AND WORKSHOPS THAT WERE HELD, UH, INTERNALLY, EX, AND EXTERNALLY, AS WE'RE GONNA KEEP, CONTINUE TO EXPOUND UPON. THE RESULT WAS THAT IN JANUARY 1ST, 2024, WE WERE ABLE, UH, TO HAVE IN PLACE THE ADOPTION OF THE 2021 INTERNATIONAL CODES. AS WE GO TO SOME OF THE HIGHLIGHTS ON THE NEXT SLIDE, WE'LL SEE THAT, UH, SPEED WAS CERTAINLY ONE OF THE HIGHLIGHTS. UH, AGAIN, WITH THAT GRANT FUNDED PROGRAM AND THE, UH, UH, ADDITIONAL STAFF THAT WE HAD, WE WERE ABLE TO ACHIEVE THE FASTEST CODE ADOPTION IN THE HISTORY OF CITY OF HOUSTON. UH, SEVERAL, UH, TRAINING TOOLKITS CAME OUT OF THAT. YOU'LL SEE THERE, THE TECHNICAL PAPERS, THE, UH, CROSS-REFERENCE ANALYSIS. UH, KEEP IN MIND THAT AS A CITY OF HOUSTON, WE WERE PREVIOUSLY UNDER THE 2015 BUILDING CODE. BUILDING CODES ARE, UH, IN THREE YEAR CYCLES. SO FOR US TO GO FROM THE 2015 TO THE 2021, WE ALSO HAD TO, UH, EVALUATE THE CHANGES THAT CAME ABOUT AT THE 2018 CODE. SO ALL OF THAT, UH, WAS A RESULT OF THAT CROSS-REFERENCE, UH, CODE ANALYSIS RESULTING IN, UH, SIGNIFICANT CHANGES BEING TRACKED FOR THE NINE BUILDING CODES THAT WE HAVE. THE, THE RESIDENTIAL CODES, THE BUILDING CODES, FIRE CODES, EXISTING BUILDING CODES, SWIMMING POOL CODES, UH, UNIFORM MECHANICAL CODES, PLUMBING CODES, AS WELL AS THE NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE. UH, THE TRAINING COURSES. AS YOU CAN IMAGINE WITH US HAVING, UH, THIS MORE UP-TO-DATE INFORMATION, THERE WAS A LOT MORE, OR OF, UH, COMMUNITY STAKEHOLDER INVOLVEMENT. UH, THE EDUCATIONAL HOURS, UH, GREATLY INCREASED THE NUMBER OF TRAININGS, UH, THAT WE HAD. UH, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU'LL SEE THAT REALLY TOOK PLACE DIFFERENTLY IS HAVING NOT ONLY EXTERNAL STAKEHOLDER ENGAGEMENT, BUT THE NEED TO ALSO [00:40:01] HAVE A LOT OF TRAINING FOR OUR INTERNAL STAFF AT THE SAME TIME. UH, THREE OF THE KEY DELIVERABLES FROM THAT GRANT FUNDED PROGRAM, UH, FOR MODERNIZATION WERE THE PROJECT MANAGEMENT PLAN, THE PUBLIC PARTICIPATION PLAN, AND THE TRAINING, IMIT IMPLEMENTATION PLAN. AGAIN, ALL A ROUGH, UH, UH, FRAMEWORK FOR HOW WE WOULD BE ABLE TO DO, UH, FUTURE, UH, CODE ADOPTIONS. NOW, THE NEXT SLIDE, YOU'LL SEE, UH, SOME CURRENT INITIATIVES THAT, THAT WE KEEP, UH, WORKING WITH THE YEAR-ROUND CURRICULUM. UH, PARTICULARLY THE OUTREACH IN ORDER TO TARGET SPECIFIC EXTERNAL STAKEHOLDER NEEDS. SO THE CUSTOMER SERVICE SECTION AS WELL AS COMMUNICATION, ELIZABETH ORDEN AND HER GROUP, UH, GRACE CHANDLER, UH, THEY KEEP US IN TOUCH WITH WHAT IT IS THAT THOSE EXTERNAL, UH, STAKEHOLDER NEEDS ARE, UH, VIA ROUND TABLES AND SO FORTH. UH, OUTREACH. SOME OF THE RESULT, HA HAS HAD A DIRECT BEARING ON THE TOPICS, UH, THAT WE DISCUSSED. PLAN REVIEW PROCESS IS ALWAYS, UH, KEY. UH, THE CODE UPDATES THE NEW TECHNOLOGIES THAT ARE AVAILABLE. AND AS MENTIONED BEFORE, UH, IT BEING CRITICAL TO INCLUDE THE HOUSTON PERMITTING STAFF, UH, AS PART OF THAT TRAINING. SO YOU'LL FIND THAT, UH, ONE OF THE KEY THINGS THAT WE'VE DONE IS WE'VE MADE SURE TO HAVE AN INTERNAL TRAINING PROGRAM WITH OUR STAFF PRIOR TO GOING TO, TO EXTERNALS. AND WE WILL TALK ABOUT THAT IN JUST A SECOND. THE EDUCATION AND OUTREACH, AGAIN, THE, THE MONTHLY TRAININGS THAT ARE HAPPENING ON A CONTINUOUS BASIS. THE FLYERS, UH, THAT ARE AVAILABLE, UH, THE, UH, POSTINGS THAT WE HAVE IN THE BUILDING, AS WELL AS VIA SOCIAL MEDIA. UH, THE PUBLIC, THE PUBLIC IS INFORMED, SO EVERYBODY KNOWS, UH, WHAT'S TAKING PLACE. NOW. ON OUR NEXT SLIDE. UH, WIDE CODE MODERNIZATION, UH, MATTERS, UH, ALIGNMENT, UH, IMPROVED CUSTOMER SERVICE THROUGH ALIGNMENT. IT'S ONE THING, UH, FOR THE PUBLIC TO, TO FEEL LIKE THEY KNOW SOMETHING VIA THEIR EXPERIENCE OR THEIR PREVIOUS EXPERIENCES AND, AND FOR US AT THE PERMITTING CENTER. BUT UNLESS, UM, THE, THAT UNDERSTANDING ALIGNS, THEN, UH, IT MAY MAKE, UH, THE PERMITTING PROCESS AND EVEN THE INSPECTION, UH, DIFFICULT, UNNECESSARILY DIFFICULT, UH, DRIVING CONSISTENT, UH, CODE INTERPRETATIONS, AGAIN, FOR, FOR ONE PERSON, OR EVEN FOR THE CODE DEVELOPMENT GROUP, TO, TO HAVE THE RIGHT INTERPRETATION OR FOR PLAN REVIEW, TO HAVE THE RIGHT INTERPRETATION. IT'S ONE THING, BUT UNLESS WE CAN ALL, UH, COME TO AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THAT CORRECT, UM, INTERPRETATION IS AND WHY IT IS SO THAT, UH, CUSTOMERS CAN, UH, BE DRIVEN BY THAT THROUGH THE, UH, SUBMITTAL PROCESS, UH, THROUGH THE REVIEW PROCESS AND THROUGH THE INSPECTION PROCESS. SO, PARTNERING THAT THIRD BULLET POINT, OBVIOUSLY BECOMES VERY CRITICAL. THE, THE COMMUNICATION THAT TAKES PLACE NOW AT THE PERMITTING CENTER FROM THE VARIOUS DEPARTMENTS, UH, TO SEE HOW IT IS THAT WE CAN, UH, BETTER HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE CODE REQUIREMENTS AS WELL AS WHAT WE WOULD RE REQUIRE. SO DELIBERATE DIRECT COMMUNICATION AMONG ALL THE DEPARTMENTS, UH, UNDERSTANDING THAT WE ALL PLAY A PART IN THE, IN THE CUSTOMER'S EXPERIENCE WHEN PULLING A PERMIT, AGAIN, FROM WHAT'S ON THE FLYERS ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE INITIAL INTAKE, THROUGH THE INSPECTION, CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY AND SO FORTH. UH, US, UH, CUSTOMERS, UH, BEING INFORMED ABOUT KEY UPDATES. UH, FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS, AGAIN, WITH THE INTERPRETATIONS BEING CONSISTENT WITH THE INFORMATION, WITH THE SAME INFORMATION BEING SHARED AMONG ALL DEPARTMENTS. THAT OBVIOUSLY ALLOWS US TO THEN BE ABLE TO HAVE GOOD INFORMATION ON OUR WEBSITE. AND SO THAT EVEN PRIOR TO COMING IN TO THE PERMITTING CENTER, UH, PEOPLE ARE WELL INFORMED AND, AND THERE'S NOT ONE THING THAT THEY READ ONLINE VERSUS WHAT THEY ACTUALLY EXPERIENCE, UH, WHEN THEY COME INTO THE BUILDING. UH, HAVING CURRENT CODES, UM, BEING MODERN IN OUR CURRENT CODES THEN ALLOWS US TO BE ABLE TO HAVE, UH, BETTER, UH, RATINGS FROM, UM, THE PROGRAM THAT OFFERS THE INSURERS, UH, THE, THE PROGRAM THAT THEY LOOK AT, UH, INTO A COMMUNITY'S BUILDING CODES AND THEIR ENFORCEMENT. UH, THE LOWER A, UM, A B SEG SCORE IS B SEGS IS A, A BUILDING CODE EFFECTIVENESS GRADING SYSTEM. THE LOWER THE SCORE THERE, THEN THE BETTER LIKELIHOOD OF PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO GET, UH, BETTER PREMIUMS FOR THEIR INSURANCE RATES. AND THEN LASTLY, YOU HAVE THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT, UH, THE LIFE SAFETY FACTORS, RIGHT? WHETHER IT'S SMOKE DETECTORS OR CARBON MONOXIDE GENERATORS AND WHAT HAVE YOU. THOSE LIFE SAFETY ITEMS ARE CONSTANTLY KEPT BEFORE THE PUBLIC, UH, VIA BULLETINS AND SO FORTH. UH, OUR NEXT SLIDE IS CODE MODERNIZATION, UH, TRAINING, OUTREACH. THERE'S MUCH BENEFIT AND WISDOM THAT WE'VE GOTTEN FROM, UH, THE 2021 CODE UPDATE. AND SO WE'RE OBVIOUSLY MAINTAINING THE, THE TRAININGS, UH, YOU SEE THERE IN THE BULLET POINTS. WE'VE HAD 17 INTERNAL TRAININGS TO DATE ALREADY. WE'VE HOSTED 18 EXTERNAL TRAININGS, BOTH AT THE PERMITTING CENTER AS WELL AS, UH, OUTSIDE. [00:45:01] WE'VE REVAMPED, UH, THE CERTIFICATION PROGRAMS, UH, AT THE PERMITTING CENTER. THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN, UH, SOME CERTIFICATION PROGRAMS AND SOME ASSISTANCE TO HELP OUR, UM, STAFF BECOME CERTIFIED. BUT REVAMPING A VERY SPECIFIC CURRICULUM, UH, 16 WEEK CURRICULUMS FOR WHETHER IT'S THE PERMIT TECH CERTIFICATION OR THE, UM, BUILDING CODE INSPECTOR CERTIFICATIONS. UH, WE HAVE SIMULATED TIME TESTS. UH, AGAIN, WE HAVE A SET CURRICULUM. UH, WE HAVE MANY STAFF MEMBERS, NOT ONLY THE, THE, THE ONES THAT ARE PARTICIPATING IN THE TRAININGS, BUT EVEN THEIR OTHER DEPARTMENTS. UM, THEY'RE, THEY'RE ENJOYING THAT AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE BENEFITING FROM IT. UH, LASTLY ON THIS SLIDE, WE HAVE THE SECOND PER ANNUAL PERMITTING WORKSHOP. WE DID THAT LAST YEAR. UH, AGAIN, UH, COLLABORATION ACROSS DEPARTMENTS WITH THE CUSTOMER SERVICE AND THE COMMUNICATIONS TEAM. UH, IT'S GONNA HAPPEN AGAIN NOVEMBER 19TH. UH, THE FOCUS, UM, AS THE, THE DEMAND IS FOR PERMITTING, RIGHT? SO, THREE TRACKS, WHETHER YOU'RE NEW TO THE PERMITTING PROCESSES, WHETHER YOU'RE A PRO AT IT OR PERHAPS YOU'RE AT THE DEVELOP DEVELOPER LEVEL. OUR LAST SLIDE IS, UH, WHAT'S NEXT AND WHAT'S NEXT? UH, AGAIN, WE'RE CURRENTLY UNDER THE 2021 CODE. UH, WE WANT TO LOOK AT THE 2024 CODE AND BRING FORTH, UH, HIGH VALUE UPDATES, UH, THAT HAVE COME OUT. SO THAT'S GONNA ALLOW US TO BENEFIT, UH, FROM THOSE UPDATES. WE IMPLEMENT IT, WE JOIN IT, UH, TO THE 2021 CODE, AND THEN WE PREPARE FOR THE 2027 CODE, WHICH WILL BE COMING UP, UH, IN 2027. THE IDEA IS TO BE ABLE TO, UH, TO IMPLEMENT THE 24 CODE UPDATES IN 2026, AND THEN TO LOOK AT, UH, TARGETING A FULL 2027 CODE CYCLE ADOPTION IN 2028. THAT'S GONNA, UH, HELP US BE ABLE TO, UH, BRING ABOUT THOSE CHANGES, UH, WITH LESS STAFF REQUIREMENT THAT WAS NECESSARY THROUGH THE GRANT FUNDED PROGRAM OF, YOU KNOW, UP TO 17, UH, AUGMENTING VIA 17 TEAM MEMBERS. UH, IT ALLOW US TO MAKE US BETTER USE OF, UH, NOT HAVING TO PURCHASE CODE BOOKS FOR EVERY CODE CYCLE. SO, UH, LOOKING TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT'S SUSTAINABLE AND PREDICTABLE, UH, UPDATING, UH, THE CODES AND THEN DOING FULL ADOPTIONS. SO ESSENTIALLY THAT GETS US, I THINK, TO THE END OF THIS PART OF THE CODE MODERNIZATION PRESENTATION OF WHERE WE'VE BEEN AND WHERE WE'D LIKE TO GO. OKAY. I HAVE, UH, QUESTIONS FROM STAFF. UM, COUNCILMAN RAMIREZ. THANK YOU. THANKS. UM, SO I IMAGINE SOMETIMES THERE'S A TRADE OFF BETWEEN, UH, COST AND TRYING TO SAVE LIVES OR, RIGHT. OTHER, OTHER TRADE OFFS. UM, SO TWO RELATED QUESTIONS. ONE OF THEM IS, UM, THE, THE 2021 CODE COMPARED TO THE 24 CODE. ANY KIND OF COST ANALYSIS OF HOW THAT MIGHT IMPACT AFFORDABILITY FOR A HOME, FOR EXAMPLE. UH, I DON'T HAVE ANY OF THAT PARTICULAR INFORMATION. UH, AGAIN, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING TO DO IS BE ABLE TO GO TO, TO START THE ANALYZING OF THE 24 CODES, PARTICULARLY FOR THE, THE LIFE SAFETY ITEMS, TO BE ABLE TO SEE HOW THEY CAN BE OF VALUE AND ANY POTENTIAL COST SAVINGS, WHETHER IT'S ENERGY AND SOME OF THOSE OTHER VALUABLE UPDATES. GOTCHA. SO MY SECOND QUESTION MIGHT BE THE SAME ANSWER, BUT I'LL ASK IT ANYWAY. UM, WHICH IS THE 2024 ENERGY CODE. ANY SENSE OF, WILL IT SAVE MONEY FOR, FOR HOME BUILDERS? WILL IT COST MONEY? DOES IT DEPEND IF THEY IMPLEMENT ALL ELECTRIC? OR HOW OR HOW DOES THAT WORK? UM, AS OF RIGHT NOW, JUST AT A, AT A CURSORY LOOK AT IT, THERE, THERE ARE SOME, UM, SOME, FOR EXAMPLE, INSTALLATION ENERGY TYPE REQUIREMENTS THAT'S GONNA ALLOW FOR SOME TRADE OFFS AND FOR SCALING BACK A LITTLE BIT. BUT WE WANT TO TAKE A FULL, A FULL LOOK AT IT BEFORE WE MAKE A FINAL DETERMINATION. GOTCHA. AND, AND YOU MAY HAVE SAID THIS, BUT SO WHAT, WHAT'S THE TIMELINE FOR WHEN WE MIGHT HEAR BACK SOME OF THAT ANALYSIS? WE'RE WANTING TO GET INTO THE REVIEW OF THE 20, UH, FOUR CODE, UH, HERE PRETTY SOON. THE IDEA IS FOR US TO BE ABLE TO PRESENT SOME TO DIRECTOR MORENO, UM, EARLY ON IN 26, AND THEN TAKE STEPS BEYOND THAT. OKAY. THANK YOU. OKAY. I BELIEVE WE HAVE, UH, ONE QUESTION OR ONE PUBLIC SPEAKER THAT HAS SIGNED UP. BENJAMIN BROADWAY. IS BENJAMIN HERE? I GUESS NOT. SO, UH, WITH THAT, THAT, UH, CONCLUDES THE MEETING, AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.