* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [Houston Archaeological and Historical Commission on July 17, 2025.] [00:00:14] WELL, 2:31 PM THURSDAY, JULY 17TH, 2025. AND I'M GONNA CALL THE, UM, TODAY'S MEETING. UM, TO ORDER FOR THE HOUSTON ARCHEOLOGICAL AND HISTORICAL COMMISSION, H-A-H-C-I AM COMMISSION CHAIR DAVID EK. UH, TO VERIFY WE HAVE A QUORUM, I WILL CALL THE ROLE THE CHAIR IS PRESENT. UH, THE VICE CHAIR, UM, AUER JACKSON IS CURRENTLY NOT PRESENT. COMMISSIONER JONES PRESENT. COMMISSIONER BLAKELY NOT PRESENT. COMMISSIONER SEPULVEDA WILL BE JOINING US SHORTLY. COMMISSIONER COSGROVE PRESENT, COMMISSIONER MCNEIL PRESENT. COMMISSIONER CURRY PRESENT. COMMISSIONER CA YAP. PRESENT. COMMISSIONER STAVO PRESENT, COMMISSIONER COUCH PRESENT. AND OUR SECRETARY AND DEPUTY DIRECTOR ROBERT WILLIAMSON PRESENT. THANK YOU COMMISSIONERS. WE HAVE A QUORUM. I'LL MOVE ON TO THE CHAIR'S REPORT. UM, UH, BASICALLY I JUST WOULD LIKE TO, UM, GO OVER THE SPEAKER, UH, RULES, UH, FOR THE MEETING. UM, IF YOU WISH TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION ON AN ITEM, PLEASE FILL OUT THE SPEAKER'S FORM, UH, WHICH YOU'LL FIND AT THE FRONT, JUST OUTSIDE THE FRONT, UH, ENTRANCE DOORS. UM, AND PUT THE ITEM THAT YOU WISH TO SPEAK ON, UM, AND TURN IT INTO THE STAFF MEMBER NEAREST THE FRONT DOOR. THE SPEAKER RULES ARE POSTED ON THE AGENDA AND ARE AT MY DISCRETION AT THIS MEETING. APPLICANTS, UM, UH, WILL OPEN, UH, AND SPEAK FOR THREE MINUTES. UH, YOU MAY ALSO BE RECOGNIZED TO CLOSE WITH AN ADDITIONAL TWO MINUTES. IF YOU'RE THE APPLICANT. UM, I MAY CALL ON YOU FOR ADDITIONAL TIME TO, TO ANSWER QUESTIONS FROM COMMISSION MEMBERS. OTHER PUBLIC SPEAKERS MAY SPEAK ONE TIME UP TO TWO MINUTES WHEN I RECOGNIZE YOU TO SPEAK. UM, PLEASE NOTE FOR INDIVIDUAL A CONSIDERATION OF A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS AFTER STAFF'S INITIAL PRESENTATION, I'LL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING COMMISSION MEMBERS, PLEASE HOLD YOUR QUESTIONS FOR STAFF UNTIL, UM, OUR DELIBERATIONS, FOR OUR DELIBERATIONS UNTIL AFTER THE PUBLIC HEARING. UM, AND WITH THAT, WE WILL MOVE ON, UH, TO THE DIRECTOR'S REPORT. UH, GOOD AFTERNOON. THANK YOU. CHAIR HICK, COMMISSION MEMBERS, AND THE GENERAL PUBLIC. I'M ROBERT WILLIAMSON, SECRETARY OF THE COMMISSION AND DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF THE HOUSTON PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT. WELCOME EVERYONE. I'VE GOT THREE ITEMS FOR TODAY. UH, WE LONG LAST HAVE COMPLETED THE NOR HILL DESIGN GUIDE ON SURVEY AND ARE COMPILING THE RESULTS, WHICH WILL BE POSTED ON OUR WEBSITE AND FORWARDED TO THE NOR HILL NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION SO THEY CAN DO THE SAME. NEXT, THE OFFICE OF PRESERVATION WAS AWARDED A MATCHING GRANT TO HAVE A NATIONAL REGISTER HISTORIC DISTRICT CREATED ON LYONS AVENUE IN THE FIFTH WARD. PART OF THIS GRANT WAS TO BRING IN A CONSULTING FIRM STANTEC TO CONDUCT FIELD WORK SURVEY, THE AREA, CONDUCT RESEARCH, ET CETERA. THIS INITIAL PHASE, WE'LL HAVE A PUBLIC MEETING TO KICKSTART THE COMMUNITY INVOLVEMENT. THAT PUBLIC MEETING IS SCHEDULED TO TAKE PLACE ON THURSDAY, JULY 31ST, AT BETWEEN SIX 30 AND 8:00 PM AT THE FIFTH WARD MULTI-SERVICE CENTER, 4 0 1 4 MARKET STREET IN HOUSTON. THE OFFICE OF PRESERVATION IS CO-HOSTING THE PROCESS FOR LISTING A FOUR BLOCK PORTION OF LIONS AVENUE ON THE NATIONAL REGISTER OF HISTORIC PLACES. THIS STEMS FROM A CERTIFIED LOCAL GOVERNMENT GRANT. THE OFFICE IS AWARDED TO PREPARE THAT LISTING. IT'S AN HONORARY DESIGNATION THAT FACILITATES THE AWARDING OF STATE AND FEDERAL TAX CREDITS FOR REHABILITATIVE WORK, AND NO ADDITIONAL REGULATIONS WILL COME FROM BEING LISTED. FINALLY, WE'D LIKE TO RECOGNIZE BENJAMIN VAL'S OUR INTERN FOR THE SUMMER. HE'S A STUDENT AT ST. THOMAS HIGH SCHOOL AND WILL BE GRADUATING NEXT YEAR. UH, WE'RE HAPPY TO HAVE HIM WORK WITH OUR HISTORIC TEAM. THIS SUMMARY'S BEEN DONE A GREAT JOB IN HELP IN, UM, ARCHIVING HISTORICAL DOCUMENTS. THANK YOU. IN CLOSING, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS. OOPS, SORRY. IN CLOSING, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, YOU CAN CALL THE HOUSTON OFFICE OF PRESERVATION HOTLINE AT 8 3 2 3 9 3 6 5 5 6 OR VISIT OUR WEBSITE@HOUSTONPLANNING.COM. THIS CONCLUDES MY DIRECTOR'S REPORT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OKAY. WE DO NOT HAVE A MAYOR'S LIAISON REPORT TODAY, SO WE WILL MOVE ON TO THE CONSIDERATION OF THE JUNE 5TH, 2025 HAHC MEETING. MINUTES COMMISSION MEMBERS, HAVE YOU HAD A MOMENT TO REVIEW THE MINUTES IN YOUR PACKET? UM, ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS OR UPDATES? AND IF NOT, IS THERE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES? COMMISSIONER AUER JACKSON MAKES A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES AS PRESENTED. THANK YOU. I'VE GOT A MOTION. I IS THERE A SECOND? UH, SECOND. OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR? [00:05:01] AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTIONS OF MOTION PASSES AND WE WILL MOVE ON TO ITEM A CONSIDERATION OF IMPOSSIBLE ACTION ON CERTIFICATE NESS APPLICATIONS, BEGINNING WITH OUR CONSENT AGENDA. GOOD AFTERNOON, CHAIR COMMISSIONERS IN THE PUBLIC. THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE TODAY. JULY 17TH, 2025. I'M ROMAN MCALLEN AND I'M THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICER FOR THE CITY OF HOUSTON. UH, THE DOCUMENT I SENT OUT TO YOU THIS AFTERNOON HAD A TYPO IN THIS NEXT PARAGRAPH, SO I'LL READ IT CORRECTLY. IT STAFF RECOMMENDS ALL OF THE ITEMS IN SECTION A OF OUR AGENDA TODAY BE CONSIDERED PER STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS IN ONE MOTION, EXCEPT ITEMS A ONE, A SIX, A SEVEN, AND A 15. AND SO I'LL GO THROUGH THESE NOW WITH YOU. SO THE ITEMS WE'RE RECOMMEND RECOMMENDING FOR, UH, CONSIDERATION PER STAFF RECOMMENDATION IN ONE MOTION WOULD BE ITEM 2 33 76 INWOOD AND ALTERATION, ADDITION TO THE PROTECTED LANDMARK WILLIAM L. CLAYTON SUMMER HOUSE APPROVAL ITEM THREE A 3 33 76 INWOOD DRIVE, NEW CONSTRUCTION OF A GARAGE FOR THE PROTECTED LANDMARK WILLIAM L. CLAYTON SUMMER HOUSE FOR APPROVAL. ITEM A 4 9 0 8 KEY ALTERATION OTHER NOR HILL, AND THAT'S A PARTIAL APPROVAL DISALLOWING FOR REPAINTING OF BEAR. BRICK ITEM A 5 7 0 1 KEY STREET, ALTERATION OTHER IN NOR HILL APPROVAL WITH CONDITIONS. ITEM A 8 2 0 0 9 WEST GRAY STREET, A SIGN IN THE LANDMARK PROTECTED AREA OF THE RIVER OAKS THEATER AND SHOPPING CENTER FOR APPROVAL. ITEM A 9 76 18 CATON AVENUE ALTERATION EDITION IN GLENBROOK VALLEY DEFER PER APPLICANT WE'RE ASKING YOU TO DEFER PER APPLICANT ITEM A 10 12 15 ASHLAND STREET ALTERATION EDITION IN THE HOUSTON HEIGHTS WEST FOR APPROVAL. ITEM A 11 2 1 1 1 UNION STREET ALTERATION EDITION AND ROOF IN THE OLD SIXTH WARD FOR APPROVAL. THE ROOF BEING, UH, CHANGED TO A STANDING TO A METAL ROOF. AND THEN ITEM A 12 4 17 HIGHLAND. THIS ITEM ON YOUR AGENDA IS LABELED AS NEW CONSTRUCTION GARAGE APARTMENT. IN FACT, WHAT WE REALLY HAVE IS ON THE SITE THE RELOCATION OF A HOUSE ON THE SITE WITH AN ADDITION IN WOODLAND HEIGHTS FOR APPROVAL. AND I'D UNDERSTAND IF Y'ALL WANNA PULL AND LOOK AT THAT, I'M JUST LETTING YOU KNOW IN CASE YOU READ THAT AS NEW CONSTRUCTION ITEM A 13 77 35 MEADVILLE HAS BEEN WITHDRAWN BY THE APPLICANT, BUT IT WAS ALREADY ON OUR AGENDA. SO WE, WE, WE DON'T NEED TO ADDRESS IT. UH, ITEM A 14 15 34 AUSTIN STREET ALTERATION EDITION IN HOUSTON HEIGHTS WEST APPROVAL WITH CONDITIONS IN ITEM A 16 79 0 7 GLEN PRAIRIE STREET ALTERATION WINDOWS AND SIDING, GLEN BROOK VALLEY. DENIAL OF THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS IN ISSUANCE OF A CERTIFICATE OF REMEDIATION AS APPLIED FOR IN ITEM A 8 17 8 1 7 COLUMBIA ALTERATION. ADDITION HOUSTON HEIGHTS SOUTH APPROVAL WITH CONDITIONS. SO THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT RECOMMENDS THE PREVIOUS ITEMS AS DESCRIBED BE TAKEN UNDER ONE MOTION, AND THAT ITEM'S A ONE, A SIX, A SEVEN, AND A 15 BE CONSIDERED INDIVIDUALLY. AND I'M HERE FOR ANY QUESTIONS. CAN YOU REPEAT YOUR, UH, RECOMMENDATION ON ITEM 11 OR CONSENT? UH, I'M SORRY, CHAIR. WHICH ITEM? UH, 11 ITEM 11 2 1 1 UNION STREET, ALTERATION, ADDITION AND ROOF IN OH SIX WARD FOR APPROVAL. THIS IS A VERY SMALL ADDITION TO THE REAR OF A CONTRIBUTING HOME IN OH SIX WARD AND, UH, AND A ROOF CHANGE. OKAY. THANK YOU ROMAN, UM, COMMISSION MEMBERS, ARE THERE ANY PROJECTS ON THE PROPOSED CONSENT LIST YOU'D LIKE TO PULL FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION? UH, UH, MR. CHAIR, I ACTUALLY HAVE FURTHER CLARIFICATION ON A 11 BECAUSE IT'S, UH, ON THE, UH, STAFF RECOMMENDATION, UH, SENT OUT AT 1:00 PM IT SAYS, UH, APPROVAL, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE LATEST ONE THAT WE RECEIVE OF THE AGENDA, A 11 HAS APPROVAL WITH CONDITIONS. SO WHAT ARE WE APPROVING? SO THAT'S FIRST THING I WANT TO FIND OUT. WELL, LET'S, LET'S PULL THAT FOR, YEAH. AND THEN THE, THE, UH, THAT WAS JUST A QUESTION. THANK YOU THAT YOU'RE, SORRY, GO AHEAD. I CAN RESPOND TO THAT. IT IS APPROVAL WITH CONDITIONS. THAT'S RIGHT. YOU'RE RIGHT. THAT ON THAT ITEM A [00:10:01] 11, IT SHOULD BE APPROVAL WITH CONDITIONS AS SPECIFIED ON WHAT YOU RECEIVED TODAY. YEAH. OKAY. THEN I DON'T, FOR ME, IF THE CONDITION STANDS THEN I'M AGREEABLE BECAUSE I WAS NOT AGREEABLE TO APPROVAL. UNDERSTAND. UH, SO I PERSONALLY, I, I DON'T NEED TO PULL A 11, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO PULL A 10. OKAY. ARE THERE ANY OTHER PROJECTS? A 1211? UM, FIRST CONSENT AGENDA? I HAVE SOME CONCERNS. MR. OKAY. AND COS MR. COSGROVE? 12. OKAY. ANY OTHER PROJECTS COMMISSION WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS INDIVIDUALLY AT THIS TIME, I'M GOING TO, UH, OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AND JUST ASK IF ANY MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC WANTS TO, UM, PULL AN ITEM CURRENTLY ON THE CONSENT AGENDA, IF YOU'RE HERE FOR AN ITEM AND YOU SUPPORT THE RECOMMENDATION FROM STAFF, THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO REASON TO PULL THE AGENDA. IF, IF THIS VOTE PASSES, YOUR PROJECT WILL PASS. UM, ALONG WITH THAT RECOMMENDED, UM, STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION AND CURRENTLY ALL OF THE SPEAKERS I HAVE SIGNED UP TO SPEAK OR SIGNED UP FOR PROJECTS THAT WE'RE ALREADY GONNA DISCUSS INDIVIDUALLY. SO IS THERE ANY OTHER PROJECTS IN THE PUBLIC THAT YOU WANT TO, UH, PULL FROM THE RECORD FOR, FOR DISCUSSION? I'D LIKE TO PULL A 10, EXCUSE ME ONE MOMENT. I'D LIKE TO HOLD FOR A MOMENT. I NEED MY INTERPRETERS TO MOVE BECAUSE THE MACHINE BEHIND THEM IS MAKING A LITTLE BIT OF A HUMMING NOISE, SO IT'S MAKING THEM HARD TO HEAR. CAN WE MOVE THE INTERPRETERS ON THE OTHER SIDE? IT'S UP TO YOU. AND COMMISSIONER COUCH. WE'VE ALREADY PULLED NUMBER 10. OH, SORRY. OKAY. IS OKAY. SO NOT, NOT HEARING ANYONE ELSE, I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AT THIS TIME ON THE CONSENT AGENDA, I WILL READ OUT THE SURVIVING CONSENT LIST AND ROMAN, YOU CAN MAKE, YOU CAN VERIFY MY, MY NUMBERS. BUT ON THE CONSENT AGENDA OR ITEMS TWO, ITEMS THREE. SO ITEM THREE, ITEM FOUR, ITEM FIVE, ITEM EIGHT, ITEM NINE, ITEM 13, ITEM 14, ITEM 16. AND ITEM 17. SO WITH THAT, UM, COMMISSION MEMBERS, IS THERE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE RE I'M SORRY, CHAIR. YES, I APOLOGIZE. CHAIR. I WANNA MAKE SURE I'M FOLLOWING YOU. COULD YOU GIVE 'EM TO ME ONE MORE TIME PLEASE? YES, SIR. FIRST ITEM IS ITEM TWO TH 33 76 INWOOD DRIVE, ALTERATION EDITION ITEM THREE AGAIN, 33 76 IN WIND DRIVE, NEW CONSTRUCTION GARAGE. ITEM 4 9 0 8 KEY STREET, ITEM 5 7 0 1 KEY STREET. OKAY, ITEM 8 2 0 0 9 WEST GRAY STREET. ITEM 9 7 6 1 8 CLAYTON AVENUE, ITEM 13 7 7 3 5 MEADVILLE STREET. ITEM 14 15 34 OLSTON STREET, ITEM 16 79 7 GLEN PRAIRIE STREET. AND ITEM 17, 8 1 7 COLUMBIA STREET CHAIR. I DIDN'T HAVE ITEM 12. I HAD IT ON THE CONSENT AGENDA. DID SOMEONE PULL THAT ONE? YES. OKAY. THANK YOU. OKAY, GOT IT. YEAH. ITEMS, ITEMS 10, 11, AND 12 WERE PULLED OFF THE CONSENT AGENDA. GREAT. GOT IT. THANK YOU. SO WITH THIS REVISED CONSENT LIST, IS THERE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE REVISED CONSENT LIST AND THE RECOMMENDATIONS, UH, BY STAFF CORAB ACCEPTS OR MOVES TO ACCEPT THE FOLLOWING? THANK YOU. I'VE GOT A MOTION. IS THERE A SECOND? MR. COUCH? SECONDS. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTIONS? MOTION PASSES AND WE WILL NOW MOVE ON TO ITEM ONE FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION AT 10 COURTLAND PLACE. OKAY. CHAIR AND COMMISSIONERS. ITEM ONE IS AN ITEM YOU'VE SEEN THE LAST TWO MEETINGS. THIS IS GONNA BE, UH, FOR A NEW CONSTRUCTION AT 10 COURTLAND PLACE. AND THE, UH, AS YOU KNOW, THIS IS A, A LOT THAT WAS FORMERLY OCCUPIED BY A HOUSE THAT WAS NON-CONTRIBUTING, THAT HAS BEEN RAISED. AND THE PROPOSAL IS FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION. ON THE FRONT PAGE, ON THE PAGE ONE OF THE REPORT, UH, I WANNA NOTE THAT THE PREVIOUS, UH, UNDER THE PROPOSAL SECTION, THE PREVIOUS TOTAL CONDITION SPACE PROPOSED WAS 8,330 SQUARE FEET. AND THEN THE COMBINED COVERED SPACE WAS 12,020 SQUARE FEET. [00:15:02] WE HAVE RECEIVED UPDATED DRAWINGS FROM THE APPLICANTS THAT CALL FOR A 931 SQUARE FOOT REDUCTION IN CONDITION SPACE AND A 1,105 SQUARE FOOT REDUCTION IN COMBINED COVERED SPACE. THE RE THE BUILDING IS REDUCED IN WIDTH BY 13 FEET. AND I'LL COVER THIS AS WE GO THROUGH THE IMAGES. THE, UH, THERE'S AN INCREASED DISTANCE FROM THE NEIGHBOR'S DRIVEWAY OF, TO THE LEFT OR TO THE EAST OF 10 FOOT AND SIX INCHES, AND THUS INCREASES THE DISTANCE TO THE PROPERTY LINE FROM 27 FEET TO 37 FEET AND SIX INCHES, AND A REDUCED DISTANCE FROM THE HOUSE ON THE WEST FROM 31 FEET, 11 INCHES TO 27 FEET AND SEVEN INCHES. THE OVERALL MASS OF THE HOME HAS BEEN REDUCED, ESPECIALLY, UH, RECOGNIZABLE FROM THE EAST AND WEST ELEVATIONS, AND THERE'S BEEN NO CHANGE IN HEIGHT. STAFF HAS RECEIVED NUMEROUS LETTERS FROM PROPERTY OWNERS IN THE DISTRICT, NOT IN FAVOR OF THE, UH, OF THE PROPOSAL. AND THEN ANOTHER, ANOTHER, UH, GROUP OF LETTERS THAT CAME PRIOR TO THE LAST. UM, AT LEAST I HAVE TWO LETTERS HERE BEFORE ME FROM MEMBERS OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND, UH, FOR THE RECORD, I DON'T KNOW IF I NEED TO READ THESE INTO THE RECORD FOR THEM TO BECOME PART OF THE RECORD. UH, I'D ASK, UH, LEGAL, UH, IF I HAVE LETTERS THAT WERE SUBMITTED TO ME, UM, DO I NEED TO READ 'EM INTO THE RECORD FOR THEM TO BECOME PART OF THE RECORD? UH, THEY COULD BE, THEY CAN BE, UH, BROUGHT INTO THE RECORD JUST BY THE RECORD KEEPING ADMINISTRATIVELY. YOU MAY, THE, UH, MEMBERS MAY WANT TO READ THEM THOUGH IF THEY HAVEN'T BEEN ATTACHED TO THEIR PACKETS BEFORE NOW. OKAY. YES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH, SO I HAVE RECEIVED SOME LETTERS THAT, UH, WERE MAILED IN, THEY WERE MAILED TO JULY 7TH AND JULY 13TH. ONE FROM A ROBERT TAYLOR AND ONE FROM A SUZANNE, UH, NIMEX. BUT HOWEVER, THE MOST RECENT DRAWINGS ACTUALLY WERE EMAILED OUT AFTER THAT. SO, UM, JUST TO GIVE A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND, AND THEN IN YOUR REPORT, WHICH WE'LL GET TO, THERE ARE TWO COMMENTS THAT I'LL READ TO YOU. AND THEN THERE ARE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC HERE WHO WISH TO SPEAK ON IT AND ALSO HAVE SOME LETTERS TO READ INTO THE RECORD. SO GOING FORWARD, YOU KNOW, THIS IS IN COURTLAND PLACE. IF WE WENT TO PAGE FIVE OF THE PDF, WE KNOW THE LOT IS THERE, AND WE DO HAVE SOME NEW RENDERINGS, WHICH IF WE GO TO PAGE NINE OF 36, JUST, UH, UM, JUST THE FIRST SET OF RENDERINGS, WHICH WOULD BE THE, THE PAGE BEFORE RIGHT THERE. AND THERE'S A SLIGHT DIFFERENCE IN THESE RENDERINGS, WHICH YOU CAN LOOK AT ON YOUR, ON YOUR DEVICES TO SEE THAT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE, UH, IN THESE. THE NEXT PAGE HAS, UM, A DIAGONAL FROM THE EAST, AND YOU CAN NOTE THAT THE DIFFERENCE, WHICH IS YOU'RE GONNA SEE IN THE LINE DRAWINGS THE GABLES HAVE CHANGED ON. AND THE, AND THE SIDE ONE STORY SIDE PART OF THE HOUSE ON THE EAST SIDE HAS BEEN SET BACK QUITE A BIT. AND I'LL GO OVER THAT. SO IF WE GO DOWN TO THE NEXT, THE FIRST LINE DRAWING OF THE FRONT ELEVATION, UNFORTUNATELY, IN THE SHIFTING OF, OF PREPARING DOCUMENTS, MY LINE SHIFTED HERE. JUST GO DOWN TO THE FIRST LINE, DRAWING OF THE FRONT ELEVATION ON PAGE 12, PLEASE. THERE YOU GO. UM, THE TOP DRAWING THERE IS WHAT WAS PROPOSED THAT YOU SAW LAST TIME. AND THERE ARE, UH, SOME BLUE LINES IN THAT IMAGE THAT YOU COULD, UH, CONSIDER AND LOOK AT HERE. BUT THE, BASICALLY WHAT YOU'RE SEEING ON THE OUTER LINES THAT THE BUILDING HAS MOVED IN ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE AND ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE, I THINK IT'S, UH, 13 FEET IN ON THE RIGHT. SOME OF THAT WE CAN BE GOING OVER LATER. IT'S, UH, I'VE LOST, LOST THE TEXT IN THE SHIFTING THERE. ON THE NEXT PAGE, YOU'RE GONNA SEE A SIDE EVOLUTION. THIS IS WHERE YOU REALLY START TO SEE THE FORM AND HOW IT'S CHANGED. AS YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE'S, THERE'S FOUR MIDDLE, THERE'S FOUR BLUE LINES THERE. THE TWO LINES IN THE MIDDLE, UH, SHOW A WHOLE SECTION OF THE BUILDING AT THE FIRST LEVEL THAT'S BEEN, UM, IT'S NO LONGER THERE. SO THAT, THAT SIDE OF THE HOUSE, WHICH IS ONE STORY, HAS BEEN PUSHED BACK SIGNIFICANTLY. AND THEN THE GABLE IN THE ROOF SYSTEM HAS BEEN RE-PLANNED. UH, BUT OVERALL THE DEPTH OF THE HOUSE IS THE SAME. NOW, IF WE GO TO THE, UH, NEXT ELEVATION, WHICH WOULD BE THE WEST, AND YOU'RE GONNA SEE THE SAME THING THAT THE OVERALL DEPTH OF THE HOUSE HASN'T CHANGED, BUT THE ROOF FORM HAS, AND THE PORTICO IS IN A NUMBER OF FEET AS WELL. AND IF WE GO TO THE NEXT PAGE, WE HAVE THE SITE PLAN, IF WE COULD ZOOM IN A LITTLE, IT GIVES YOU AN IDEA OF THE CHANGE ON THE EASTERN ELEVATION. THE ON THE LEFT SIDE WAS THE PLANS THAT SUBMITTED LAST MONTH. THE BLUE BOX REPRESENTS THE NEW SIZE OF THAT PORTION OF THE HOUSE, [00:20:02] OR ANOTHER WAY TO LOOK AT IT ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE, THE GREEN AREA IS THE PORTION THAT NO LONGER IS BEING PROPOSED. AND THE NEXT PAGE IS A ROOF, A ROOF PLAN. AND YOU CAN NOTE THAT THE DI THE DIFFERENT FORM THAT THAT ROOF TAKES. AND THEN THE FOLLOWING PAGE, ALL, UH, SHOWS THAT THE CURRENT PROPOSED GARAGE IS ACTUALLY A SINGLE STORY STRUCTURE. UM, IF YOU ZOOM OUT A LITTLE ON THE SCREEN, UM, YOU'LL SEE THAT THERE'S A, THERE'S A ONE STORY, UH, GARAGE AND BUILDING IN THE BACK. AND THEN, UM, IF WE GO, WE'D HAVE TO GO THROUGH 'EM ALL AGAIN. I THINK MOST OF THE COMMISSIONERS ARE FAMILIAR WITH COURTLAND PLACE AND HAVE SEEN IT, BUT WE HAVE A LONG SERIES OF THE 20 OR SO HOUSES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. UH, THOSE ARE CONTEXT PHOTOS. THANK YOU FOR GOING THROUGH THOSE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD WITH ITS, WITH, ITS INCREDIBLE, WITH NUMBER OF BUILDINGS, MOSTLY ALL CONTRIBUTING. AND, UH, IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING TO MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC AND WHO'S THINKING WHY THIS TOOK SO LONG THAT, YOU KNOW, UH, UNLESS THERE'S SOME, UM, NATURAL DISASTER THAT TAKES THINGS AWAY, WE, WE PROBABLY WON'T SEE NEW CONSTRUCTION IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, POSSIBLY MORE FOR MORE THAN A HUNDRED YEARS. SO THEN I HAVE SOME COMMENTS HERE. THIS IS AN EMAIL FROM A GLEN AND HE'S, THESE ARE ALL COMMENTS FROM PEOPLE WHO OWN AND LIVE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. HE SAYS, GINGER AND I ARE STILL OPPOSED TO THESE PLANS AND WE'LL SPEAK AT THE MEETING. MY PRIMARY OBJECTION IS THE DESIGN. AND I UNDERSTAND THE DEVELOPER'S REQUIREMENT WITH A PRIMARY BEDROOM ON THE FIRST FLOOR, UH, THAT'S DRIVING ALL THE ISSUES. IT'S NOT HISTORICALLY ACCURATE TO HAVE A PRIMARY ON THE FIRST FLOOR, AND IT DRIVES A FOOTPRINT TO BE MUCH LARGER THAN THE OTHER HOMES ON THE STREET. UM, AND THE, AND THE, APPARENTLY THE, THE DEVELOPER IS UNWILLING TO REMEDY THIS. THAT BEING SAID, IT IS A BEAUTIFUL HOME AND WOULD BE VERY APPROPRIATE IN, IN OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS SUCH AS MEMORIAL AND RIVER OAKS, WHICH ARE NOT IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS. ANOTHER COMMENT IS, IT APPEARS TO BE A BIG STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, UM, TO ME, BUT OTHERS ON THE STREET ARE MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE ON THE DETAILS THAN ME. AND THAT WAS FROM A GENTLEMAN, CHARLES. UM, AND THEN THIS, ACTUALLY, THAT NEXT LETTER IS ONE OF THE LETTERS I HAVE HERE ON JULY 13TH FROM SUZANNE NIMS AND, UM, EXPRESSING CONCERN, BUT IT AGAIN IS PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF THE LATEST DRAWINGS. SO THE REST OF THAT PACKET WILL BE THE, THE LINE DRAWINGS OF THE PROJECT. I'M GONNA ZOOM OUT AND JUST CHECK IF THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE I HERE WE WANT TO SHARE WITH YOU. OH, THERE, UH, THE APPLICANTS ALSO PRODUCED ON FURTHER DOWN AROUND, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S PAGE 50 ON MY DOCUMENT. UH, SOME ADDITIONAL MASSING AND ROOF COVERAGE EVALUATIONS. AND THEY COULD SPEAK TO THOSE WHEN, WHEN THEY COME UP. UH, YOU'VE SEEN THEM BEFORE. AND THEY ALSO HAVE A MASSING AND ROOF COVERAGE EVALUATION ON THE LAST PAGE OF THE ENTIRE LAST PAGE OF THE DOCUMENT. AND I, I REALLY WOULD LIKE THE, UH, APPLICANTS TO SPEAK TO THE DIAGRAM AS THEY MADE IT. AND I'LL TAKE ANY, WE ARE RECOMMENDING APPROVAL AS STAFF WE'RE RECOMMENDING APPROVAL. WE'LL TAKE ANY QUESTIONS. ROMAN COULD JUST POINT OUT THE PROPERTY ON THIS CURRENT GRAPHIC UP ON THE SCREEN. OKAY. ON THIS, UH, THE PROPERTY ON THIS SCREEN IS GONNA BE ON THE, ON THE TOP ROW AND YES, WHERE THAT CURSOR IS CIRCLING IS CORRECT RIGHT NOW. AND THE PINK AREA IS THE ONE STORY ELEMENT. YES. WELL, THE LIGHT PINK IS WHAT I MEANT. SORRY. UM, YEAH, I'M SLIGHTLY COLORBLIND, BUT I KNEW WHAT YOU MEANT. . OKAY. OKAY. WE DO HAVE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE ASSIGNED TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM. SO I'M GONNA OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AT THIS TIME. AND, UM, I DO HAVE TWO FOLKS, UM, THAT SIGNED UP, UH, AS APPLICANT. AND I'M GONNA ALLOW ONE OR THE OTHER TO START FIRST. SO EITHER TODD BLITZER OR ANNA ECKARD. UM, WOULD YOU LIKE TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION, MR. CHAIR? IF I HAVE QUESTIONS FOR ROMAN, DO I ADDRESS IT LATER AFTER THE PUBLIC OR YOU, YOU, YOU, WE CAN, YEAH, WE CAN HOLD OUR QUESTIONS FOR A MOMENT IN. OKAY. GOOD AFTERNOON. UH, MY NAME IS TUBER WITH THE MURDER GROUP. WE'RE THE REPRESENT OF THE ARCHITECTS THAT, UH, WORK WITH A CLIENT ON, ON THE DESIGN OF THE 10 CORTLAND HOME. I WANNA THANK YOU ALL FOR, UH, FOR BEING HERE AND, AND ALLOWING ME TO SPEAK ABOUT ON BEHALF OF THE PROJECT. [00:25:01] UM, YOU KNOW, THE LAST MEETING AT HIS LAST MEETING, UH, MY BUSINESS PARTNER JERRY H****R, WHO UNFORTUNATELY COULDN'T BE HERE TODAY WITH US DUE TO TRAVEL PLANS, HE DID MEET WITH THE, ABOUT HALF THE RESIDENTS IN THE COMMUNITY AS WELL AS ROMAN, AND DISCUSSING THE CONCERNS THAT THEY HAD WITH REGARDS TO, TO THE HOME. SO WE MADE A GREAT EFFORT TO GO AHEAD AND, AND MODIFY AND LISTEN AND REDUCE THE, THE SIZE OF THE HOME. UM, YOU KNOW, WITH REGARDS TO ADDRESSING THE, THE CONCERNS THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD HAD, UM, WE MADE SOME SIGNIFICANT CHANGES. UH, AS ROMAN HAD MENTIONED, THE HOME IS ABOUT 13 FEET NARROWER. IT'S ABOUT NINE OR 30 FEET SMALLER. UM, WITH REGARDS TO THE WIDTH OF THE, OF THE HOME, UH, WE'VE, WE'VE, ON THE EASTERN WING OF THE HOUSE, WE ACTUALLY REDUCED THE WIDTH. SIGNIFICANT, WE PUSHED IT BACK SIGNIFICANTLY. SO IT'S IN LINE WITH THE PORTER, EVEN TO THE POINT WHERE THE FRONT PORTION OF THE HOME LOOKS LIKE A, AN ENCLOSED PORCH, WHICH WAS TRYING TO BE IN, IN LINE WITH HISTORIC NATURE OF, OF THE HOMES AND THE COMMUNITY. AND THEN THE TALLER ROOF WAS PUSHED, PUSHED FURTHER BACK WITH THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THE MASS THAT REDUCED SIGNIFICANTLY THE MASSING OF, OF THE HOME. UH, ALSO AS MENTIONED, INCREASING THE AMOUNT OF GREEN SPACE, ESPECIALLY BETWEEN THE, THE NEIGHBOR'S HOUSE AND, AND OUR BUILDING TO THE EAST. AND THEN ALSO MOVING FURTHER AWAY FROM THE, UH, FROM THE DRIVEWAY, WHICH WAS A, WAS A, WHICH WAS A BIG CONCERN. UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE HOME, UH, MAINTAINS, UH, AS FAR AS ITS DIVERSITY CONTRIBUTES TOWARDS THE DIVERSITY OF ARCHITECTURE REPRESENTED FROM A HISTORIC PERSPECTIVE. UH, ALSO THE HEIGHT OF THE BUILDING HASN'T CHANGED, BUT WHAT WE DID DO, WE DID CHANGE THE MASSING OF THE ROOF AS WELL. SO THE FRONT GABLE ROOF, UH, IS MORE IN LINE WITH REGARDS TO THE SLOPES. THE DORMERS DON'T PROJECT OUT AS FAR AND IS MORE, UH, CONDUCIVE WITH THE, THE ARCHITECTURE IN THE COMMUNITY AND, AND ALSO FOR HISTORIC, UH, PRECEDENT AS WELL. UM, REGARDING THE, THE SETBACK. UM, SO WE ARE WITHIN COMPLIANCE WITH REGARDS TO THE SETBACK. YOU AGAINST THE SPEAKER WITH TWO MINUTES MORE TIME? YES, SIR. SECOND. THANK YOU. SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. OKAY, YOU PLEASE PROCEED. SO OUR, WE HAVE A FRONT PORCH IN FRONT OF THE HOME. UH, SOME OF THE OTHER HOMES IN THE COMMUNITY DON'T HAVE A FRONT PORCH, SOME MUCH DEEPER PORCHES. SO IN THE HOMES, WHICH THERE IS NO PORCH, OUR HOME IS PUSHED FURTHER BACK FROM THE SETBACK ON THE HOMES WHERE THERE ARE DEEPER PORCHES. OF COURSE, THE APPEARANCE OF THE MAIN FACADE OF A HOME IS SLIGHTLY, SLIGHTLY FORWARD. UM, BUT ALSO OUR, A LOT IS ALSO WIDER THAN A LOT OF THE HOMES, UH, IN THE, IN THE COMMUNITY. AND I HAVE AN UPDATED SKETCH AS WELL. IF YOU, YOU WANNA SEE IT REGARDING THE DISTANCE FROM THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD FIND BENEFICIAL? IS THAT LIKE A SITE PLAN? YEAH, IT'S AN OVERALL, IT'S A, UM, YEAH, IT'S AN ELEVATION AND ARIEL I CAN SHOW IT ON. YOU CAN HAND IT TO STAFF AND THEY'LL PUT IT ON THE DOCUMENT SCREEN, DOCUMENT CAMERA. OH, IS THAT THE ONE THAT HE SENT TO YOU RECENTLY? NO, SAME NUMBERS TAKE IT FOR YOU. SO, OKAY. ALRIGHT. IT'S RIGHT HERE. SOMETIMES THIS DOESN'T WORK AND WE MAY NEED TO SLIDE IT DOWN SLIGHTLY. YEAH, SO YOU CAN SEE THIS IS, UH, RIGHT HERE. THAT'S, THAT'S THE 10 CORTLAND HOME. AND YOU CAN SEE HERE FROM, FROM, UH, ROOF EDGE TO ROOF EDGE, WE'RE ABOUT SIX. WE'RE ABOUT OVER SIX, OVER 60 FEET AWAY. UM, COMPARED TO, YOU KNOW, OVER HERE 68. AND ON THE WEST SIDE WE'RE 55 COMPARED TO THE ADJACENT HOME. ACROSS THE WAY IS IS 28. AND THEN, UH, ACROSS THE WAY AS WELL, UM, YOU KNOW, HERE THIS, IT'S 24 67, THIS ONE'S 80. SO IT VARIES FROM HOME TO HOME. AND SO IT'S, IT'S IN, IT'S CONSISTENT WITH THE DIVERSITY OF, OF DISTANCE BETWEEN THE HOMES. AND AGAIN, BECAUSE OUR LOT IS, IS WIDER, YOU KNOW, WE STILL HAVE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF GREEN SPACE BETWEEN THE HOMES. SO IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY PLEASE LET ME KNOW. OKAY, THANK YOU. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS OF THE APPLICANT? THE SPEAKER? I'M SORRY, WHAT'S THAT? THE PICTURE CAN YOU SHOW? SO IT'S RIGHT ABOVE IN THE MIDDLE YOU CAN SEE THE, UH, THE BLUE LINE. YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT HCAD, THE PROPERTY LINE ACTUALLY IS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET, BUT WE PUT THAT LINE AT THE SIDEWALK SO IT'S CONSISTENT FROM PROPERTY TO PROPERTY. SO THAT BLUE LINE REPRESENTS WHERE A PROPERTY LINE WOULD BE ON THE INSIDE OF THE SIDEWALK. SO IT'S CONSISTENT IN COMPARISON BETWEEN ONE LOT AND THE OTHER LOTS, YOU KNOW, BOTH LOTS ON THE NORTH SIDE OF, OF CORTLAND PLACE AND THEN THE SOUTH SIDE. I HAVE A QUESTION. OKAY. HI. UM, HAS THERE BEEN ANY TALK OF ADDING TREES TO THE SITE? ONE DIFFERENCE THAT STANDS OUT BETWEEN THAT LOT AND SOME OF THE OTHERS IS THAT THERE ARE FEWER TREES AROUND THE HOUSE. WELL, THERE IS A LANDSCAPE PLAN AND, AND THEY ARE PLANNING ADDING TREES ONTO THE HOME. AND THAT'S CERTAINLY NOT A, NOT A PROBLEM. WE DON'T, WE DON'T MIND DOING THAT. IS THERE, MR, I NOTICED ON THE EAST, UH, ELEVATION OR EAST SIDE OF THE HOUSE, THERE'S A PORCH. WE ELIMINATED THAT PORCH THAT WAS THERE BEFORE. [00:30:03] NO, NO, UH, NO. I SEE THAT THERE, IT'S, IT LOOKS LIKE A, A FAKE PORCH OF SORTS. OH, BY THE COLUMNS, BUT THERE'S NO, FROM WHERE I'M LOOKING, FROM THE DRAWINGS IT SHOWS THERE'S, THERE'S A PORCH, BUT ON THE, ON THE FLOOR PLAN, THERE IS NO PORCH. THERE'S ROOM THERE, BUT, UH, IS IT SORT OF A FAKE PORCH OR IT'S A WALKWAY IN FRONT OF THE, UH, THE FACADE. UH, WHERE BEFORE WE ACTUALLY HAD SOME COLUMNS THAT STOOD PROUD OF THAT. AND THERE WAS AN OVERHANG AND COVERED AREA. UH, THE WAY WE HAVE IT NOW IS THE PORCH, THE, THE WALKWAY IS THERE, BUT THEN THE HOME STEPS BACK FROM THAT AND IT DOES NOT HAVE A, A COVERED AREA AT THAT LOCATION PRESENTATION PLEASE. AND THE INTENT OF THE DESIGN WAS TO HAVE IT APPEAR AS THOUGH IT WERE PERHAPS A SUNROOM AT SOME POINT AND WAS CLOSED. THEN ROMAN, IT MAY BE GOOD TO PUT UP THE PLAN AND JUST, WELL, THE REASON I'M BRINGING THAT UP 'CAUSE THERE'S NO OTHER EXAMPLE OF THAT ON THAT STREET. SO, AND WE DID THAT AS WELL TO BALANCE OUT THE ELEVATION WITH REGARDS TO THE PORTIER ON THE LEFT AND THEN THE, THE FORM ON THE RIGHT. AND IF YOU GO TO THE EAST ELEVATION, UH, YOU CAN SEE WHERE WE WENT AHEAD AND HAD A FLAT ROOF OVER THERE ON THE EAST ELEVATION. SIMILAR TO WHAT WE HAVE WITH THE PORTIER ON THE, ON THE WEST SIDE. AND THIS, THIS WAS REALLY DONE TO HELP REDUCE THE MASS, REDUCE THE APPEARANCE OF, OF A MUCH OF, OF A LAR OF A, OF THE, THE WAY IT LOOKED PREVIOUSLY. 'CAUSE IT WAS MUCH MORE MASSIVE PREVIOUSLY. AND WE WANNA ADDRESS IT FROM THE STREET TO BE CONSISTENT, UH, SCALE WISE WITH THE COMMUNITY. WELL THAT'S, THAT'S ONE, UH, DETAIL THAT I'M STRUGGLING WITH. IT JUST SEEMS, UM, A LITTLE BIT, I DON'T KNOW, HARD TO EXPLAIN. IS IT POSSIBLE THAT YOU COULD POINT TO ON THE, ON THE DRAWINGS, UM, THE AREA THAT'S BEING REFERRED TO, UM, DO THE FLOOR PLAN AND ROMAN, YOU MAY NEED TO HELP HIM WITH THE POINTER. I WONDER IF I MAY I CLARIFY WHAT I'M SAYING IS WHAT I'M SEEING THAT IT IS LIKE A, A FAKE COLUMNS THAT ARE, THAT ARE ATTACHED, UH, ON THE WALL, THE PILE. IT'S NOT A REAL, IT'S NOT A REAL PORCH. SO IT DOES SEEM TO SIMILAR OF THE, UH, CONSISTENT WITH THE REST OF THE, THE, IT'S NOT SIMILAR TO THE REST OF THE NEIGHBORS. I MEAN THERE, THERE'RE PILE AERS IN THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, WHICH IS VERY INDICATIVE OF THIS STYLE OF HOME. YOU KNOW, WITH REGARDS TO, AS OPPOSED TO PHYSICAL COLUMN STANDING PROUD OF THE STRUCTURE ITSELF, THERE ARE PILE AERS, WHICH, UH, UH, ALLUDE TO, UH, A COLUMN. AND, AND TRUTHFULLY WE, WE DON'T HAVE A, YOU KNOW, IF, IF, IF THEY WENT AWAY IT WOULD NOT BE AN ISSUE. BUT WE WOULD HAVE, UM, YOU KNOW, UM, BRICK AND EITHER SIDE OF THAT AND THE COLUMN WOULD BE A PILE ASHER. SO IT'D BE HALF THE THICKNESS OF AN ACTUAL COLUMN. MR. BUTCHER, I'M JUST ASKING YOU LIKE ON THE FLOOR PLAN, COULD YOU POINT OUT FOR, JUST FOR THE CLARITY FOR COMMISSION? YES. YOU WANNA PULL THE FLOOR PLAN? I CAN POINT WHERE THAT IS. YEAH, SO IF YOU ZOOM IN ON THE LOWER RIGHT HAND CORNER, THERE YOU GO A LITTLE FURTHER, YOU CAN ZOOM IN CLOSER SO YOU CAN SEE THAT YOU WHO'S, IT'S OVER HERE, RIGHT THERE. OH, LEMME POINT TO A MOUSE. YOU HAVE A MOUSE THERE. ALRIGHT, SO RIGHT THROUGH HERE. THIS IS THE, UH, THE UNCOVERED PORCH WAY OVER HERE. OH, THANK YOU. OKAY. RIGHT OVER HERE. YOU CAN SEE IN FRONT HERE, THIS IS AN UNCOVERED PORCH SIMILAR TO WHAT WE HAVE HERE IN THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE. SO THIS FRONT PORCH HERE WRAPS AROUND HERE, OVER, OVER HERE. I'M, I'M LOOKING ON PAGE 13, RIGHT? I SEE FOUR. AND YOU SEE THE FULL WIDTH OF THE PORCH, UH, OR THE, OR THE PLASTER, BUT YOU, BUT THE, IT'S A BRICK WALL THERE IN BETWEEN THE PLASTERED, UH, PLASTER, A BRICK WALL OR PLASTER WALL IN BETWEEN. SO THAT IS THE, THAT'S ON PAGE 13. THAT'S THE WESTERN ELEVATION? NO, PAGE 13. OKAY. SO YEAH, THAT ONE. SO THIS WAS THE OLD, UM, THE ORIGINAL PORCH THAT WE HAD OUT IN FRONT. AND THEN AGAIN, THIS ONE HERE IS, IS ALLUDING TO THAT WITH REGARDS TO THE FACADE, THE BREAKUP, THE FACADE THAT, SO THAT HAS THE APPEARANCE THAT IT USED TO BE A, AN OUTDOOR PORT PORCH THAT WAS ENCLOSED. SO WE'VE DONE THAT IN OTHER HOMES IN THE PAST AND OTHER HISTORIC HOMES WHERE THAT WAS AN OUTDOOR PORCH THAT GOT ENCLOSED AND THAT WAS THE INTENT THERE. SO FOR THE COMMISSION THAT, UM, IN BETWEEN THE SECOND AND THIRD BLUE LINE STARTING FROM THE LEFT, THAT'S NOT A PORCH. THOSE ARE PYLA. AND THAT IS A SOLID, UM, THAT IS SOLID, UH, AIR CONDITIONED SPACE IF, IF YOU WILL. YES. THAT IS SOLID SPACE RIGHT IN HERE. YES. AND YOU CAN SEE BASED ON THE PREVIOUS LAYOUT, THE HOME CAME ALL UP TO THE FRONT HERE, BUT IT SEEMED LIKE EVERY OTHER PORCH IS THERE IS REALLY HUGE. IT HAS MORE OF A GLASS ENCLOSURE. UH, AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE, AND THEY'RE TYPICALLY NOT BRICK. I'M LOOKING AT THE OTHER PICTURES AND THEY'RE ALL PORCH HAS, UH, IN ENCLOSED, UH, WITH GLASS. THAT'S THE REASON I WAS JUST CONCERNED IS ALL. OKAY. WE, WE CAN CERTAINLY ADD WINDOWS IN THERE. I THINK WE, THE CONCERN WE HAD ABOUT ADDING WINDOWS, THERE WAS THEM BEING SUPERFLUOUS, BUT YOU KNOW, FOR THE AESTHETICS, [00:35:01] WE, WE'VE DONE THAT BEFORE IN THE PAST AND WE WOULDN'T MIND DOING THAT HERE. I UNDERSTAND. ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OF THE SPEAKER? I HAVE YOUR COUCH. ONE QUICK QUESTION. SO THE GABLE ROOF ON THE LITTLE, THE BACK PART OF THAT ADDITION SORT OF STANDS OUT TO ME BECAUSE LOOKING AT THE PICTURES OF THE OTHER HOUSES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THEY HAVE LITTLE ONE STORY WINGS COMING OFF ON EITHER SIDE, BUT THEY'RE ALL FLAT ROOFED. WOULD YOU CONSIDER MAKING THAT A FLAT ROOF? WE CAN DO THAT. WE CAN MAKE THAT A LOW PITCH ROOF, AS YOU CAN SEE IN THAT ELEVATION. I MEAN IT'S, WE HAVE SCREENED THE, UH, THE GABLE IN THAT ELEVATION BECAUSE IT'S PUSHED SO FAR BACK. BUT IN REALITY, IF YOU GO TO THE PERSPECTIVE VIEW IT, IT ACTUALLY IS MORE OF A REALISTIC LOOK FROM THE, UH, EASTERN SIDE. IF YOU CAN PULL THAT ONE UP. IT'S SO FAR BACK. WELL, THERE'S A TREE IN FRONT OF IT. YEAH, YEAH. THE NEXT ONE. THAT ONE. SO IF YOU ZOOM INTO THAT ONE AT THE BOTTOM, I MEAN, GRANT, THERE'S A TREE THERE THAT, THERE'S ANOTHER ONE IN THE RENDERING ON PAGE, IT'S CALLED FIGURE NINE ON PAGE 11. THAT, THAT'S THE ONE I WAS LOOKING AT. OH YEAH, YEAH. AND WE, IF, IF WE MADE, WE ACTUALLY INTERNALLY WENT BACK AND FORTH ON WHETHER TO MAKE THAT A, A PITCH ROOF OR, OR A LOW, A PITCH ROOF AS IT IS OR A LOW PITCH ROOF. AND IF THE COMMISSION PREFERRED A LOW PITCH ROOF, I MEAN, THAT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT WE CAN DO. AND THAT COULD ALSO HELP TOWARDS REDUCING THE MASS, THE APPARENT MASS OF THE, THE BUILDING OF THE HOME. YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE THIS WAY IT'S STILL EVEN AT THAT HEIGHT, EVEN IF IT WAS A LOW PITCH ROOF WITH A PARAPET WALL AND A CORNERS TREATMENT, YOU KNOW, WE'D STILL GET THE HEIGHT THAT WE NEED INSIDE THE HOME ITSELF. I MEAN, ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THIS IS, IS NEW CONSTRUCTION REPLACING SOMETHING THAT WAS NON-CONTRIBUTING? CAN WE HEAR FROM THE NEIGHBORS AND SEE WHAT, WHERE THEY ARE WITH THIS CURRENT DESIGN? WE DO HAVE MANY SPEAKERS SIGN UP TO SPEAK, SO THANK YOU. AND WE, YOU THERE MAY BE FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS. UM, OKAY. SINCE YOU'VE OP YOU'VE OPENED, UM, WILLINGNESS TO MAKE SOME ALTERATIONS. THE NEXT SPEAKER I DO HAVE SIGNED UP THOUGH IS ANNA, UH, PIKER. GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS ANNA PIKER AND I AM THE CO-OWNER OF NUMBER 10. ALONG WITH MY BUSINESS PARTNER CHARLES CHAPMAN. WE PURCHASED NUMBER 10 WITH THE INTENTION OF DESIGNING AND BUILDING A HOME THAT COMPLIMENTS THIS BEAUTIFUL AND HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD. AND WE'LL SELL IT TO A FAMILY WHO WILL LIVE, LAUGH, AND LOVE INSIDE ITS WALLS. CHARLES AND I ARE HERE TODAY AND ASK OUR COMMITTEE OF RESPECTED PROFESSIONALS AND PUBLIC OFFICIALS TO PLEASE END THE BACK AND FORTH AND MAKE THE DECISION TO APPROVE OUR CURRENT PLANS. BY ALL ACCOUNTS, WE'RE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD DEED RESTRICTIONS OVERALL STYLE OF THE HOME. AND SINCE DECEMBER OF LAST YEAR, HAVE BEEN FLEXIBLE IN ENSURING WE MAKE MODIFICATIONS EACH AND EVERY TIME WE ARE PROVIDED FEEDBACK BY THE NEIGHBORS. WHEN DOES THE BACK AND FORTH END? ARE WE ABLE TO ACCOUNT FOR EVERYBODY'S SUBJECTIVE OPINIONS? OF COURSE WE WANT TO, TO DO SO, BUT IT SEEMS IT'S JUST PERPETUAL AT THIS POINT. WE WANT TO TELEGRAPH THAT WE TAKE PRIDE IN OUR WORK. WE'RE HONORED TO BE ABLE TO DO, TO DO THIS WORK AND RESPECT THE LEGACY OF THIS NEIGHBORHOOD. AND THE ARCHITECT WE EVEN CHOSE TO DESIGN THIS HOME, USED TO LIVE AT NUMBER SIX. UM, HE OWNED NUMBER 10, SOLD IT TO US AND HAD PLANNED TO BUILD HIS OWN STRUCTURE THERE THAT WAS SIMILAR IN SCALE AND SIZE TO OUR HOME THAT WE'RE DESIGNING. WE RESPECT THE FAMILIES THAT HAVE LIVED HERE FOR DECADES AND THOSE WHO HAVE DEEP ANCESTRAL ROOTS IN THIS COMMUNITY. BUT IT'S ALSO TO ACCOUNT FOR THE FUTURE LEGACY OF OUR FAMILIES IN THIS COMMUNITY. AND DURING A TIME IN WHICH THERE'S MUCH CHANGE AND UNCERTAINTY IN OUR LIVES, THIS NEIGHBORHOOD WILL STAND THE TEST OF TIME NOT ONLY BY PROTECTING THE HOMES THAT ARE CURRENTLY THERE, BUT BY ALLOWING FOR GROWTH AND DIVERSITY AND BY OPENING OUR HEARTS AND OUR MINDS. TO ME THIS HOME MIRRORS OUR DIVERSE COMMUNITY OF HOUSTON AND THAT IT REPRESENTS NOT AN EXACT REPLICA OF THE PAST AS NOTHING WOULD COMPARE, BUT IT MERGES THE HERE AND THE NOW IN HOMAGE TO THE PAST. CHARLES AND I ARE HONORED TO BE HERE TODAY WITH THIS COMMUNITY, OUR NEIGHBORS ARCHITECTS, AS WE ALL SHARE THEIR APPRECIATION FOR THIS PRESERVATION AND FUTURE LEGACY OF OUR HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOODS. THIS IS TRULY AN OPPORTUNITY TO COME TOGETHER IN THE SPIRIT OF COMMUNITY AND COLLABORATION AND REMEMBER WHY WE'RE HERE AS IT DID ABOUT SO MUCH MORE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS OF THIS SPEAKER? OKAY. I'LL CALL THE NEXT SPEAKER, UH, WHICH WILL BE GLENN REYNOLDS, FOLLOWED BY NATALIE [00:40:01] ROLFE. IF YOU COULD RE UH, RESTATE YOUR NAME, MR. CHAIRMAN. COMMISSIONERS. MY NAME IS GLENN REYNOLDS. I'VE BEEN THE CARETAKER OF 18 CORTLAND PLACE FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS. I SAY CARETAKER BECAUSE IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT, ALTHOUGH WE OWN THE PROPERTY, WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO MAINTAIN ITS INTEGRITY AS A HISTORIC DISTRICT AND TO PRESERVE A SNAPSHOT OF WHAT THE CITY OF HOUSTON LOOKED LIKE IN THE EARLY 19 HUNDREDS WHEN CORTLAND PLACE WAS BUILT. COURTLAND PLACE HAS NEVER HAD A SPEC HOME BUILT ON IT UNTIL NOW, WHICH BRINGS TO THIS COMMISSION THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE DEVELOPER'S OBJECTIVES TO BUILD AS LARGE AND PROFITABLE A HOME AS POSSIBLE, AND THE COMMUNITY'S OBJECTIVES TO MAINTAIN THE HISTORICAL AND ARCHITECTURAL INTEGRITY OF THE DISTRICT. TO ADDRESS THE COMMUNITY'S CONCERNS, THE DEVELOPER SENT HIS ARCHITECT TO MEET WITH THE RESIDENTS AND HEARD OUR FEEDBACK. THE PRIMARY DRIVER OF THE FRICTION IS THAT THE DEVELOPER HAS TO GUESS WHAT POTENTIAL BUYERS WILL WANT THE OPTION TO PUT THE PRIMARY SUITE ON THE BOTTOM FLOOR WITHOUT LOSING ANY OF THE ENTERTAINMENT SPACES, THE LIVING ROOM, THE KITCHEN, ET CETERA, IS WHAT'S DRIVING ALL THE OBJECTIONS YOU'RE GONNA HEAR ABOUT GREEN SPACE, SIZE OF BUILDING MASS, ET CETERA. FIRST, THE FOOTPRINT OF THE MAIN HOUSE IS OVER 5,000 FEET COMPARED WITH AN AVERAGE ON THE STREET OF ABOUT 3,500. THE HOUSE NEXT TO IT IS LESS THAN 3000, BUT IN ORDER TO GET THE VALUE THEY NEED, THEY HAVE TO DO THAT. SECOND, THIS OPTION ISN'T HISTORICALLY CORRECT. IN 1910 THROUGH 1920, WHEN THESE HOUSES WERE BUILT, THE ENTERTAINMENT SPACES WERE SEPARATE FROM THE LIVING SPACES. THAT'S WHY YOU SEE NO BEDROOMS ON THE FIRST FLOOR IN ANY EXISTING HOME ON THE STREET. IN SPITE OF THE FACT THAT THOSE THAT BUILT THEM, THE NEW HOUSE FAMILY, THE CARTER FAMILY, THE BAKER FAMILY HAD MORE WEALTH THAN ANYBODY LIVING ON THEM TODAY. THOSE WERE RESERVED FOR THE OWNER'S PRIVATE USE. IT'S A CULTURAL DIFFERENCE DISTINCTIVE TO THAT PERIOD. THE DIFFICULT QUESTION POSED TO THE COMMISSION IS DOES THIS HOME MAINTAIN THE HISTORICAL AND ARCHITECTURAL INTEGRITY OF THE JUST MINUTE MORE TIME OR DOES IT PALACE OF VERSA IN FAVOR AYE. IN PORTLAND PLACE. OKAY, I'M FINISHED. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU SIR. SORRY, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE SPEAKER. MR. REYNOLDS, CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION MR. REYNOLDS? YES, MA'AM. UM, SO, SO YOUR COMMENTS THAT WERE SUBMITTED BEFORE, HAD YOU SEEN THESE MOST RECENT REVISIONS? YES. BEFORE. OKAY. AND, AND I AND YOU'RE STILL, AND I WROTE THIS AFTER THE REVISIONS. OKAY, THANK YOU. I JUST WANT CLARITY ON TIME. THANKS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THE NEXT SPEAKER'S NATALIE ROTH, FOLLOWED BY, UH, GINGER NAPIER. GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS NATALIE ROTH. I LIVE IN NUMBER 25. THAT HAS NOT BEEN SHOWN BY THE IMAGES TODAY, BUT I'VE LIVED IN COURTLAND PLACE FOR 25 YEARS. UM, I OWN OTHER, UM, HISTORIC HOMES, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO, UM, CONTRIBUTE TO THE COMMENTS AS FAR AS THIS, UM, UH, NEW PROJECT THAT IS CONSIDERED NON-CONTRIBUTING, UM, STRUCTURE FOR HISTORIC DISTRICT COURTLAND PLACE. BUT ACCORDING TO SECTION 27 OF, UH, YOUR CODE OF ORDINANCES, ANY ADDITION OR EXTERIOR ALTERATION OR RESTORATION, UH, OR OR ADDITION TO ANY, UM, NON-STRUCTURED, UH, CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES SHOULD, UH, BE COMPATIBLE WITH THE TYPICAL PROPORTIONS IN SCALE AND MASSING OF THE CONTEXT AREA. AS I HAVE REVIEWED THE CODES AND, UH, ALSO DIFFERENT SECTIONS HAVE MENTIONED THAT THE PRODUCT OF ITS, UH, THE PROPOSED ACTIVITY SHOULD, UH, ABIDE WITH THE PRODUCT OF ITS OWN TIME AND AVOID ALTERATIONS THAT SEEK TO CREATE AN EARLIER OR LATER APPEARANCE OF THE STRUCTURES THAT ARE BEING, UH, PROPOSED. AND I DO WANT TO POINT OUT THAT HAVING A, UH, A BEDROOM DOWN ON THE FIRST FLOOR IS NOT THE GRAND MANSIONS THAT ARE, UH, EXISTING ON THE, WITH THE 20 HOMES ON COURTLAND PLAYS. UM, THAT WOULD BE A DISSERVICE TO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT IF THAT GOT APPROVED BECAUSE WE WERE COUNTING ON YOUR KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERTISE AS ARCHITECTS AND HISTORIAN, ART HISTORIAN TO PRESERVE THE CITY, UH, HISTORIC DISTRICT AS IT IS. THIS IS PROBABLY THE ONLY STREET, UM, BESIDES SHADYSIDE, WHICH IS A COMPLEX, BUT THIS IS ONE SINGLE BLOCK FACE, UH, OF, OF THE CITY OF HOUSTON THAT IS WELL PRESERVED AND ANY ADDITION THAT WE WOULD MAKE FOR OUR OWN HOMES WOULD'VE TO FOLLOW THESE GUIDELINES. THANK [00:45:01] YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR ATTENTION AND THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK. THANK YOU. SORRY, ANOTHER QUESTION I'M TRYING TO CLARIFY IN MY HEAD. SO THE, THE, AM I UNDERSTANDING YOUR OBJECTION TO BE THE USE OF THE SPACE OR THE SQUARE FOOTAGE ITSELF? UH, BOTH OF THE ABOVE. THE, THE, THE DESIGN, THE USE OF THE SPACE, AS WELL AS THE PROPORTION AND SCALE. UH, IF YOU LOOKED AT THE, UM, DIFFERENT SECTIONS, IT, I THINK THAT EVEN SOME NON, NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES SHOULD HAVE FOLLOWED THE SIZE AND DIMENSIONS OF THE DEMOLISH, UH, OBJECT THAT HAS BEEN, UH, REMOVED FROM THE PROPERTY. AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE HISTORIC DISTRICT OF COURTLAND PLACE AS ONE ENTITY, THEN YOU CAN CONSIDER THIS AS A RESTORATION OR, YOU KNOW, UM, ADDITION TO THE STREET. AND I WOULD LIKE TO FOLLOW THOSE GUIDELINES AT THE SAME, UH, CONSIDERATION FOR THIS NEW CONSTRUCTION. MM-HMM . IT'S EQUALLY THE SAME CONCEPT BECAUSE ONCE WE LIVE THERE, IF WE NEEDED TO HAVE ADDITION OR, UH, RENOVATIONS DONE, WE FOLLOW THE PROPERTY LINES AND THE SCALE AND PROPORTIONS AND PRESERVING ALL THE STRUCTURES THAT ARE ON SITE, INCLUDING THE CONTEXT AREA. OKAY. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? OKAY, MOVING ON TO GINGER NAPIER, FOLLOWED BY MR. ROBERT PARK. PLEASE FORGIVE ME FOR JUST A MOMENT. IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT ME TO DO? COMMENTS? YOU, YOU CAN DO BOTH. THAT'S WHAT YOU MEAN. YOU'VE GOT YOUR OWN TOO. OKAY. I'LL BE ASKED YOU. YOU COULD, I DO. OKAY. LET ME JUST POINT, JUST A POINT OF ORDER FOR THE CHAIR OR CONSIDERATION. SHE HAS HER OWN COMMENTS, BUT SHE ALSO HAS COMMENTS, UH, THAT ARE FORMERLY REPRESENTATIVE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. SO I DON'T KNOW IF SHE COULD BE ALLOWED A LITTLE TIME TO GET THROUGH THAT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. UH, MY NAME IS GINGER NAPIER. I LIVE AT 18 COURTLAND PLACE WITH GLEN. WE'VE BEEN THERE FOR 20 YEARS. UH, MIKE HEIM, WHO IS CHAIRMAN OF CORTLAND PLACE CIVIC ASSOCIATION, SENT A LETTER AND ROMAN HAS ASKED ME TO READ IT AND I'M GONNA DO MY VERY BEST. YOU GUYS ARE VERY INTIMIDATING. UM, SO, UM, THIS IS FROM MIKE TO YOU. I BELIEVE THE LETTERS YOU HAVE RECEIVED TO DATE HAVE BEEN OPINIONS OF INDIVIDUAL HOMEOWNERS AS BACKGROUND. WHEN WE STRUCTURED THE DEED RESTRICTIONS, WE WERE ADVISED BY OUTSIDE COUNSEL THAT THE HOA DID NOT HAVE JURISDICTION OVER WHETHER ANY NEW OR MAJOR CONSTRUCTION, UH, FOLLOWED GUIDELINES. IT WAS ALL GOVERNED BY THE HOUSTON HISTORIC COMMISSION. THE COMMISSION HAS POINTED OUT TO THE HOMEOWNERS THAT HAVE ATTENDED THESE MEETINGS THAT YOU ARE, IN FACT THE FINAL ARBITER. OUR STRUCTURE OR GUIDELINES. WE HAVE THREE LEGGED STOOL, THE HISTORICAL COMMISSION, THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS, AND THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE, WHICH IS ARC. THIS STRUCTURE RELIES ON EACH LEG DOING ITS JOB. OBVIOUSLY WE NEED YOUR GROUP TO BE THE REFEREE AS TO WHETHER ANY NEW STRUCTURE OR REMODELED STRUCTURE FITS IN WITH A HISTORICAL THEME OF CORTLAND PLACE AS THE FIRST HISTORICAL STREET IN HOUSTON, AND I THINK THE FIRST HISTORICAL AREA IN HOUSTON TO BACK THE NEW HISTORICAL STATUTES ADOPTED BY THE HOUSTON CITY COUNCIL SEVERAL YEARS AGO. WE HAVE STRONG FEELINGS ABOUT PRESERVING. DO I GET TO CONTINUE ON? UNLESS YOU GRAB THE SPEAKER MORE TIME. YOUR SECOND SECONDS. JOAN SECONDS. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. PLEASE PROCEED WITH THE LETTER. THANK YOU. UM, BELIEVE THAT MOST OF THE HOMEOWNERS ON COURTLAND PLACE FEEL LIKE WE ARE NOTHING MORE THAN STEWARDS AND THAT THE STREET BELONGS TO THE CITY. I BELIEVE THAT THE CONSENSUS ON THE FIRST TWO PLANS FOR NUMBER 10 WERE STRONGLY OPPOSED BY THE HOMEOWNERS BECAUSE OF SIZE AND PLACEMENT OF THE MAIN STRUCTURES. OUR ARC REVIEW POINTED OUT SEVERAL ISSUES. THEY WERE ADDRESSED AND ARC GAVE THEM APPROVAL. UH, HISTORICAL COMMISSION HAS HELD TWO PUBLIC REVIEWS AND THEY HAVE NOT, UH, APPROVED THE PERMITS TWICE. THE COMMISSION HAS MET WITH THE BUILDER AND HOMEOWNERS INDIVIDUALLY AND AS A GROUP, AND THEY HAVE GOTTEN FEEDBACK FROM ALL CONCERNED. TODAY AS YOU MEET AGAIN TO REVIEW WHAT HAS BEEN A VERY ROCKY AND ADVERSARIAL PROCESS, YOU'RE THE FINAL ARBITRARY. AS PRESIDENT OF CORTLAND PLACE CIVIC ASSOCIATION, I HAVE TALKED TO THE MAJORITY OF HOMEOWNERS WHO ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE SHIFTED. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE SHIFTED FROM NEGATIVE TO NEUTRAL. UH, THE MAJORITY OF THIS GROUP HATED THE FIRST DRAFT, AND I THINK THAT THE SECOND DRAFT IS MORE ACCEPTABLE. NONE OF THEM HAVE TOLD ME THAT THEY LIKE OR ENJOY THE DESIGN. THE MAJORITY OF [00:50:01] THE HOMEOWNERS ON THE STREET STILL HAVE THINGS. THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THE PLANS. AND WE HAVE CHOSEN THAT THE MAJORITY ARE STILL OPPOSED TO THE DESIGN PLANS THAT HAVE BEEN PRESENTED EARLIER THIS WEEK. THEY THINK IT IS TOO WIDE AND TOO LARGE. I'M SURE THAT YOU'LL HEAR FROM THE COMMITTEE, THE COMMITTEE COMMENTS THIS AFTERNOON. MANY OF THE CLOSEST NEIGHBORS HAVE VERY STRONG OPINIONS. IF YOU TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THOSE WHO ARE AGNOSTIC OR HAVE NEGATIVE VIEWS, AND YOU HAVE TO ALSO ACCOMMODATE THE, UH, THOSE WHO ARE OPPOSED, THE CONCERNS ARE YOURS TO DECIPHER. SINCERELY, MICHAEL HEIM, PRESIDENT OF CORTLAND PLACE ASSOCIATION. NOW DO I GET TO TALK? CORRECT. CAN I ASK A QUESTION BEFORE? ABSOLUTELY. SHE PROCEEDS WITH HER PERSONAL COMMENTS. SURE. SO MY UNDERSTANDING FROM HEARING THE LETTER WRITTEN IS THAT THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE APPROVES OF THIS LAST DESIGN. IS THAT ACCURATE? WHAT THEY APPROVE, NOT THE DESIGN, BUT IT IS WITHIN THE PARAMETERS OF THE, THE RESTRICTIONS. AND MY QUESTION JUST BEFORE YOU, UH, ALSO SPEAK INDIVIDUALLY WAS YOU MENTIONED THE OTHER WHEEL OF THE STOOL, THE THE LEATHER LEG OF THE STOOL. BUT THE, THE BOARD, UM, IS DOES THAT LETTER REPRESENT THE, THE VIEW OF THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS? IT IS MORE OF A, THE QUESTION IS MORE FOR CLARITY. THE, YOU MENTIONED OUR, OUR ORGANIZATION HAVING A ROLE. THE, THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD HAVING A ROLE, YOUR YOUR COMMITTEE. THE, THE COMMITTEE, THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE, I THINK YOU CALLED IT ARC. SO THE DEED RESTRICTIONS GAVE THE BOARD THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR OVERSEEING ARC, THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE. IF THEY DIDN'T PERFORM THEIR JOB, IT WAS GOING TO BE THE BOARD'S JOB TO DO. SO ARC PERFORMED, UH, WE APPRECIATED THEIR WORK. AND THEN THE FINAL LEG IS YOU GUYS. OKAY. BUT THE LETTER THAT YOU, THE LETTER THAT YOU READ OUT LOUD IS THAT'S REALLY FROM THE BOARD THEN IT'S REALLY FROM MIKE HEIM, WHO WAS CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD. OKAY. THANK, THANK YOU. YOU CAN PROCEED WITH, UM, YOUR, YOUR PERSONAL OH, WELL, AND THANK YOU. UM, I WANNA THANK YOU ALL FOR, FOR LISTENING TO ME FOR THE THIRD TIME. UM, AND UM, I THINK THE ISSUE THAT WE HAVE ON THE STREET WITH NUMBER 10 IS, IS SOMETHING THAT IS, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS LEGAL AND WHAT IS RIGHT. UM, YOU CAN CERTAINLY DIVORCE YOUR PARTNER, UM, BECAUSE YOU'RE HAVING A MIDLIFE CRISIS NOW, IS THAT LEGAL? YES. IS IT RIGHT? MAYBE NOT SO MUCH. AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE HAVE WITH A DESIGN OF NUMBER 10 IS DOES IT FALL INTO CERTAIN GUIDELINES? IT DOES, BUT IT IS MASSIVE. AND I THINK THAT THERE ARE NEIGHBORS WHO, AND MYSELF FEEL THAT A COMMERCIAL ENDEAVOR IS TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE WORK THAT HAS HAPPENED FOR DECADES AND ARE TRYING TO PROFIT FROM IT SIMPLY BY MAKING IT THE BIGGEST THING THEY CAN DO. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS? I ACTUALLY HAVE COMMISSIONER. YEAH. A QUESTION. UH, FOR THE SPEAKER? YEAH, FOR THE, FOR FOR YOU, FOR ME. UH, YEAH, BECAUSE, UH, I THINK YOU HAVE BEEN, UH, TALKING TO THE BOARD AS WELL. ONE THING I WOULD ACTUALLY LIKE TO UNDERSTAND A LITTLE BIT MORE IS THAT, UM, WE ALL THINK IT'S TOO BIG OR THE COMMENTS HAS COME BACK, THAT IS TOO BIG. CORRECT. BUT, UH, HAS ANYBODY DONE A QUANTITATIVE MEASURE? YES. LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, I'M JUST WANNA TAKE THE TWO STORY BUILDING AND MEASURE THE WIDTH OF THE FRONT FACADE OF THAT BUILDING FOR ALL THE ADJACENT ONES AND ALSO IN FRONT OF IT. IS IT THAT MUCH LARGER? I WANT TO DETERMINE THAT. I'M GONNA SPEAK TO THAT. YES. YES. WE HAVE A GENTLEMAN HERE WHO'S DONE ALL OF THE, UH, THE NUMBERS. OH, I LIKE NUMBERS, PLEASE. HE DOES TOO. IS HE COMING UP NEXT? I DON'T KNOW. WHO DO YOU HAVE COMING UP NEXT? I HAVE ROBERT PARK FOLLOWED BY AUGUST. LATER. WELL, THERE YOU GO. HE'S THE NEXT GUY UP. OKAY, THANK YOU. THEN I WILL, UH, WAIT FOR HIM TO SPEAK. YEAH, HE'S, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. HE'S GOT, HE'S GOT THE NUMBERS. MINE, MINE IS, UH, A LACK OF, OF TOTAL GREEN SPACE AND, BUT BOB WILL TAKE THOSE WITH THE NUMBERS. THANK YOU AGAIN. THANK YOU VERY MUCH MA'AM. THANK YOU. SO, AS I MENTIONED, UH, NEXT SPEAKER WILL BE ROBERT PARK, FOLLOWED BY AUGUST LANDER. TWO MINUTES. HI, MY NAME IS ROBERT PARK. I LIVE AT NUMBER, UH, EIGHT COURTLAND PLACE. UM, I'VE LIVED AT THAT ADDRESS FOR EIGHT YEARS NOW, BUT, UH, 45 YEARS AGO I LIVED IN NUMBER 20 CORTLAND PLACE FOR THREE YEARS DURING MY ENTIRE MEDICAL SCHOOL, UH, CAREER. SO I'VE BEEN, UH, PROBABLY AT CORTLAND PLACE LONGER THAN ANYBODY THAT'S BEEN THERE SO FAR. UH, I WANNA START OFF SAYING, FIRST OF ALL, UH, I THINK THE BUILDERS MADE A GENUINE ATTEMPT TO GET THIS RIGHT. DURING [00:55:01] OUR LAST MEETING. I WAS DISAPPOINTED THAT THEY DID NOT COME THEMSELVES, NOR DID THE ARCHITECT, BUT A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE ARCHITECT WHO ACTUALLY WAS THE GUY THAT SOLD HIM THE PROPERTY. HE SHOWED UP. AND THAT'S A WHOLE NOTHER STORY. THE THING ABOUT IT IS, IS THAT THE HOUSE, THE FOOTPRINT OF THE HOUSE IS 5,000 SQUARE FEET. UH, THE ONE WE SAW A MONTH AGO WAS 5,700 SQUARE FEET. SO THEY REDUCED THE FOOTPRINT BY SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 404 TO 700 SQUARE FEET, BUT STILL A 5,000 SQUARE FEET. IT IS THE BIGGEST FOOTPRINT FOR ANY RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY, UH, ON THE STREET. AND WHAT I'VE GOT HERE, DOCUMENT CAMERA PLEASE. LOOKS LIKE, UH, FROM ALL THE HOUSES, UM, AND, UH, UH, THEY COME UP, UH, THEY'VE, THEY'VE, THEY ACTUALLY REDUCED, UH, MAKE SURE YOU GET THE LAST LINE. KEEP, KEEP GOING. SCROLL, SCROLL DOWN. KEEP GOING. YOU DON'T HAVE THEM IN THERE. IT'S OVER HERE. I'M SORRY. YEAH, . YOU NEED THAT, THAT ONE IN THERE. NOW, NOW, NOW ENLARGE PLEASE. OKAY. UH, PART OF THE ISSUE OF THE HOUSE IS THAT THE DRIVEWAY THAT'S ON THE EAST SIDE IS A SHARED DRIVEWAY. IT'S MY DRIVEWAY. HOWEVER, NUMBER 10 OWNS THAT DRIVEWAY. UH, CHARLES OFFERED TO SELL IT TO ME BEFORE THEY BROUGHT THIS PROPERTY, BUT WHY SHIP IN A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR A PIECE OF DRIVEWAY THAT I HAVE RIGHT TO ALREADY. SO I NEVER HEARD FROM HIM AFTER I'VE MADE AN OFFER FOR THE REST OF THE PROPERTY. BUT THE DISTANCE IS, IS THEY'RE CALLING AT ONE TIME. THEY CALLED THAT GREEN SPACE. IT'S A DRIVEWAY. SO NOW THEY'RE BUILDING A NEW DRIVEWAY ON THE WEST SIDE. SO THE STREET LOT OR THE LOT IS REDUCED IN SIZE BY TWO DRIVERS. MOTION TO GRANT THE SPEAKER. TWO, TWO MORE MINUTES AT A TIME. SECONDS. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. THESE, MR. PARK, YOU MAY PROCEED. IT REDUCED IN SIZE BY TWO DRIVEWAYS. SO THAT MAKES THE, THE, THE IMAGE OF THE HOUSE SIT MUCH BIGGER THAN IT WOULD SEEM WHEN YOU LOOK AT PROPERTY LINES. AND ACTUALLY, I HAVE ONE PICTURE HERE THAT THIS IS MY HOUSE SUPERIMPOSED ON THE HOUSE, AND THIS IS WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT. AND IT'S, IT'S LIKE ME STANDING NEXT TO SHAQUILLE O'NEAL. OKAY. 180 POUNDS VERSUS 410 POUNDS. AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM THAT MOST OF US HAVE WITH THIS HOUSE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS OF MR. PARK? OKAY. THE NEXT AND FINAL SPEAKER WHO SIGNED UP IS AUGUST LANDER. BUT I HAVE A, I HAVE A QUESTION THAT HE HASN'T ANSWERED. MR. PARK? NO. FOR THE, THE PREVIOUS GUY, PLEASE. YEAH. LET'S, LET'S ASK THE QUESTION NOW. YES, SIR. YEAH. UH, YES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR SHOWING ME THE FOOTPRINT BETWEEN YOUR HOUSE OR THE FRONT FACADE OF THE, UH, THE NEW POST CONSTRUCTION. BUT WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IS ACTUALLY IF YOU HAD ALSO DONE DILIGENCE, DUE DILIGENCE IN MEASURING THE WIDTH OF THE FRONT FACADE, HOW MANY FEET THAT IS COMPARED TO THE OTHERS? OH YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. UH, WELL, NOT I, THE THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS WHEN YOU DO THAT IS SOME OF THE HOUSES ARE, ARE, ARE WIDER, BUT THEY ALSO HAVE BIGGER LOTS IN COR IN PLACE, RELATIVELY SPEAKING TO THE SIZE OF THE LOT. THIS WOULD BE THE BIGGEST WIDTH. THIS WOULD BE THE LARGE WIDTH HOUSE GIVEN THE SIZE OF THE LOT. THAT'S, THAT'S ON THE STREET. 'CAUSE THAT WAS MY NEXT QUESTION. AFTER YOU MEASURE THE WIDTH, I WANT TO MEASURE THE PERCENTAGE OF THE SQUARE FOOT OF THE LOT. SO THAT WILL HELP ME AS WELL. WELL, THE SQUARE FOOT OF THE LOT IS, IT'S, IT'S ON THE SHEET THAT I JUST GAVE THIS GENTLEMAN HERE. NO, FOR THE ENTIRE COURTLAND FOR THE ENTIRE PAGE 51 COMMISSIONER Y, PAGE 51 OF YOUR PACKET. YEAH. AND I BELIEVE WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR IS THE SLIDE BEFORE, AT THE BOTTOM THERE. THE FRONT. CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT PAGE? ELEVATION? MICROPHONE PLEASE. THE LAST PAGE. SCROLL ALL THE WAY TO THE BOTTOM. SECOND TO LAST PAGE. SECOND TO LAST PAGE. I'VE JUST GIVEN AN EXAMPLE, THE SLIDE ITSELF RIGHT NOW, FOR EXAMPLE, NUMBER, NUMBER 14, WHICH IS THE HOUSE WEST OF THE A PROPOSED PROPERTY, THE WIDTH OF THE HOUSE IS 60 FEET. I WENT OUT AND MEASURED IT MYSELF. AND THAT'S NOT COUNTING THE PORTICO SHARE. THE WIDTH OF THIS NEW HOUSE IS 52, PLUS 20 IS 72. SO IT'S 12 FEET WIDER THAN THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR, WHICH WHOSE LOT IS 20% BIGGER. SO RELATIVELY SPEAKING TO WHAT THEIR BUILDING SPACE IS. THIS IS THE WIDEST PROPERTY ON CORTLAND PLACE. THANK YOU. OKAY. OKAY. THE NEXT SPEAKER SIGN UP IS AUGUST LANDER. [01:00:07] AND MR. LANDER, IF MR. LANDER, IF YOU COULD REPEAT YOUR NAME IN THE REC FOR THE RECORD IN THE MICROPHONE. YES. I'M AUGUST LANDER AND UH, I LIVE DIRECTLY ACROSS FROM NUMBER 10. I'VE BEEN THERE OVER 50 YEARS. I USUALLY KEEP TO MYSELF AND LIVE AND LET LIVE, BUT THIS HAS BROUGHT ME TO THIS MEETING TODAY, THIS COMMERCIAL VENTURE. TODD AND JERRY, Y'ALL DID LISTEN TO US. YOU, UH, REDUCED IT. SOME, YOU'RE ON THE RIGHT PATH, BUT IT'S STILL WAY TOO BIG. I WILL SEE IT FOREVER. IT WILL BE RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET WHEN YOU DRIVE IN OR WALK THE STREET, LOOK AT WHAT YOU'LL SEE. I KNOW IT FITS ALL THE SETBACK LINES AND EVERYTHING, BUT I BELIEVE ON A HISTORICAL STREET IT SHOULD BLEND IN. THIS PROPOSED HOUSE SHOULD FIT IN, NOT STICK OUT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS OF THE, THE SPEAKER? OKAY. UM, LET ME JUST ASK FOR ONE, ONE JUST IF THERE'S ANYONE ELSE IN THE PUBLIC WHO HAS NOT SIGNED UP TO SPEAK WHO WANTS TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM? UM, I GUESS A QUESTION FOR A NEIGHBOR. SURE. UM, I, I HAVE A ADDRESSED THIS TO THE NEIGHBORS, TO THE, THE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WHO HAVE SPOKEN. 'CAUSE I'M TRYING TO, TO, UH, WITHOUT STANDING ON YOUR STREET, YOU KNOW, WITH, WITH, WITH THE MEASURING TAPE OUT, I'M, I'M LOOKING AT A LOT OF THE FIGURES THAT THE APPLICANTS HAVE INCLUDED HERE. THE LOT COVERAGE, THE SQUARE FOOTAGE, THE PROPERTY LINES VERSUS THE BUILDING LINES. AND, AND IT ALL, YES, IT'S ON THE UPPER END OF, OF WHAT IS, IS COMPARED ON THAT BLOCK FACE, BUT IT ALL SEEMS TO FIT. AND SO I'M, I'M, I WANT TO BETTER UNDERSTAND WHAT IT IS THAT IS THE, IS IS THE OPPOSITION. SO IF, IF YOU COULD ANS ADDRESS THAT, I WOULD APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU. MR. PARK, IF YOU COULD RESTATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD. ROBERT PARK, UH, NUMBER EIGHT, ROBERT PARK. NUMBER EIGHT, AGAIN, UH, THE GESTALT OF THE HOUSES ON THE STREET, UH, FROM, UH, THERE'S A MONOGRAPH WRITTEN ABOUT COURTLAND PLACE, BUT THE O THE ORIGINAL BUILDERS OF COURTLAND PLACE BUILT THESE STATELY HOMES, MOSTLY CENTERED IN THE CENTER OF A LOT THAT HAD CONSIDERABLE YARDAGE ON EACH SIDE. THERE WERE STABLES IN MY BACKYARD AT ONE TIME. THE PROBLEM IS, IS THIS HOUSE STRETCHES THE LIMIT OF THAT. AND VISUALLY, THIS HOUSE, GIVEN THE CONFINES OF TWO, TWO DRIVEWAYS, FILLS ALMOST THAT ENTIRE SPACE BETWEEN DRIVEWAYS, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF NOW THE 12 FEET. THEY'VE GRANTED US BETWEEN, WHICH IS THEIR SECOND DRIVEWAY AND THE DRIVEWAY THAT I USE. AND SO VISUALLY, THE HOUSE IS REALLY OVERWHELMING. ADDITIONALLY, THE FACADE OF THE HOUSES ON THAT SIDE OF THE STREET WHERE THE BULK OF THE HOUSES ARE VISUALLY, THIS HOUSE IS STARTS, THE HOUSE STARTS, THE TOTAL FACADE OF THE HOUSE STARTS SEVEN FEET IN FRONT OF WHERE MY HOUSE IS. AND THEN ADDITIONALLY THE SIX FEET IN FRONT OF THAT IS WHERE THEIR, THEIR BALCONY IS. SO FROM THE BACK OF MY HOUSE TO WHERE THEIR HOUSE IS, IT'S GONNA STICK OUT 12 FEET. AND THAT'S ANOTHER ONE OF THE OBJECTIONS. AND I THINK THAT THAT'S WHAT AUGUST WAS, WAS SPEAKING TO IN TERMS OF, IT'S NOT ONLY WIDE, BUT IT STICKS OUT. WE DON'T CARE HOW MUCH GOES BACK BECAUSE WE DON'T SEE THAT I WOULD, BUT THE REST OF STREET DOESN'T. SO THE THANK YOU FOR THAT. THANK YOU. THAT'S VERY HELPFUL. UM, SO WHEN I'M LOOKING AT THESE, THE, THE CALCULATIONS HERE OF THE LOT COVERAGE, FOR INSTANCE, WHERE THEY SAY IT'S 30.6% OF LOT COVERAGE, THAT THAT IS NOT TAKING THE, THAT SECOND DRIVEWAY INTO CONSIDERATION. ACTUALLY, I FIGURED THAT OUT TOO IN TERMS OF THERE'S GONNA BE 11,000 SQUARE FEET OF CONCRETE POURED ON THIS LOT, AND MY FIGURES WERE, UH, FOR THE LOT THAT THEY OWN IS GONNA BE 44%. OKAY. THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE THAT. THANK YOU. MR. BLAKELY, YOU HAD A QUESTION. THANK YOU. UH, I'M NOT SURE ANYONE CAN SPEAK TO THIS BECAUSE IT DOESN'T SEEM THAT THE ARCHITECT IS HERE, BUT IT'S HERE. OKAY. IF THE ARCHITECT IS HERE, I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR, UH, A CASE FOR THIS DESIGN. UM, BECAUSE [01:05:02] FOR EXAMPLE, I FIND IT'S SORT OF LACK OF SYMMETRY PUZZLING. I'M WONDERING WHETHER THE ACTUAL FOOTPRINT AND SIZE OF THE BUILDING WOULD BE SUCH A PROVOCATION FOR SOME PEOPLE IF THE DESIGN WERE MORE HARMONIOUS AND RESOLVED AS A DESIGN IN ITSELF. I MEAN, THERE IS A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF DIVERSITY ON THE BLOCK. I SEE SORT OF A TUDOR STYLE AND A SORT OF COLONIAL STYLE. BUT EACH OF THESE HOUSES, UH, HA HAS A KIND OF INTEGRITY AS A DESIGN. I THINK THE DESIGN THAT'S IN FRONT OF US MAY BE TO SOME EXTENT A VICTIM OF THE PROCESS OF, OF TRYING TO TAKE THAT FIRST DESIGN AND MAKE COMPROMISES. BUT I DON'T SEE A KIND OF COHERENCE AND INTEGRITY TO THIS DESIGN THAT SEEMS TO BE ON A PAR WITH THE OTHER HOUSES ON THIS STREET. SO IF I THINK ABOUT THE LONGER TERM, THE FUTURE, YOU KNOW, 50 AND A HUNDRED YEARS FROM NOW, I FEEL THAT THIS HOUSE WOULD STAND OUT BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT FROM THE SIDE, THE ROOF AS IT GOES BACK, IT LOOKS A BIT AWKWARD. IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THE WAY A HOUSE OF THAT, THAT THAT WAS STYLED THAT WAY ON THE FRONT WOULD'VE BEEN STYLED, UH, UH, BACK IN THE DAY. AND IT ALSO DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A MODERN HOUSE EITHER. IT LOOKS LIKE AS THOUGH IT'S TRYING TO BLEND IN ON THE FRONT, BUT THEN TRYING TO JUST SORT OF ACCOMMODATE FUNCTIONS AND THEN THE DESIGN AS A RESULT BECOMES INCOHERENT. I THINK A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT MIGHT MAKE, UH, SOME IMPROVEMENT WOULD BE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE BALLAST RAIDS ON THAT SHOW FROM THE FRONT TO EITHER SIDE ARE OF DIFFERENT HEIGHTS. SO WHEN I TALK ABOUT SYMMETRY, I THINK THE CENTRAL PORTION OF THE HOUSE IS CLEARLY SYMMETRICAL, BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THOSE BLANKING PARTS, ONE OF THEM IS HIGHER THAN THE OTHER. THEY DON'T SEEM TO BE RELATING TO ONE ANOTHER. I FEEL THAT THAT IS A DETAIL THAT MAKES THE WHOLE DESIGN SORT OF FALL APART AS A DESIGN. AND I THINK THAT THAT IS CONTRIBUTING TO SOME OF THE ANXIETY AROUND THE HOUSE. I ALSO THINK WE SHOULD STAND UP FOR THE DESIGN INTEGRITY, UH, OF HOUSES ON THAT BLOCK, PARTICULARLY SINCE THIS HOUSE WILL BE HERE FOR A LONG TIME. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. UH, I THINK THAT QUESTION WAS ADDRESSED, UH, TO MR. TODD BLITZER. AND AS YOU'RE THE FIRST SPEAKER, YOU HAVE THE OPTION TO ALSO HAVE A, A REBUTTAL, UM, HAVING LISTENED TO ALL THE COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC. BUT IF YOU'D LIKE TO ADDRESS THOSE COMMENTS AND ALSO JUST GENERALLY THE COMMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED GLOBALLY. UM, AND DURING THE MEETING, UM, YOU, YOU HAVE THE OPTION OF SPEAKING, ADDRESSING COMMISSION A FINAL SURE. A FINAL TIME. I CAN ADDRESS SOME OF THOSE COMMENTS AND, AND CONCERNS. UM, WITH REGARDS TO THE STYLE OF HOME, THE HOME IS A FEDERALIST STYLE HOME AS FAR AS THE INFLUENCE HOME, UH, AND NOT EVERY HOUSE IN THE COMMUNITY IS SYMMETRICAL. UH, THAT'S NOT A PREREQUISITE FOR THE HOMES, THIS COMMUNITY OR IS IT PREREQUISITE FOR A PARTICULAR, THAT DESIGN? UH, THE MAIN PART OF THE HOME IS SYMMETRICAL, UH, WITH THE PORT RICOCHET AND WITH REGARDS TO THE, UH, SUNROOM ON, ON, ON THE EAST SIDE, UH, IT'S, IT IS CONSISTENT WITH HISTORIC HOMES THAT WE HAVE WORKED ON OVER THE YEARS THAT THE MAIN PORTION OF THE HOME IS SYMMETRICAL. AND WHEN YOU HAVE A PORT RICOCHET OR A SUNROOM, THOSE COULD BE ASYMMETRICAL WITH REGARDS TO, THAT'S WHY WE PUSH THOSE FORMS BACK. AND THEN, AND THEN, UH, NOT PART OF THAT MAIN, UH, FACADE, CERTAINLY MODIFYING THE HEIGHTS. UH, CERTAINLY I DON'T OBJECT TO THAT. I CERTAINLY THINK THAT'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO GO AHEAD AND, AND MAKE IT MORE COHESIVE WITH THAT. WITH REGARDS TO THE PORT RICOCHET FROM THE, UM, FROM THE SUNROOM TO THE, UH, TO THE EAST, UM, I'D ALSO SAY THAT, UM, WITH REGARDS TO THE SECOND DRIVEWAY, UH, THAT DRIVEWAY IS PER EASEMENT ON, ON 10 COURTLANDS PROPERTY. AND CERTAINLY IF THE OWNER WOULD LIKE TO MOVE THAT DRIVER ONTO HIS PROPERTY, WE'D CERTAINLY BE THAT, CERTAINLY WOULD BE, WOULD BE AN OPTION. BUT, YOU KNOW, IT IS WHAT IT IS WITH REGARDS TO THE HISTORY OF THE HOME AND HOW THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY WAS DERIVED AND, AND THAT THAT DRIVER WAS PUT IN PLACE AND THERE WAS A EASEMENT PUT IN PLACE AND THUS WE MADE AN EFFORT TO NARROW THE HOME DOWN AND ALSO CREATE A GREATER DISTANCE TO EAST AND WEST BETWEEN OUR HOME AND THE HOME, UH, TO THE EAST. UM, VISUALLY WE DON'T THINK IT HAS A SUBSTANTIAL, UH, IMPACT TOWARDS THE, UM, THE EXPERIENCE, THE MASSING OF THE HOME BY HAVING THAT DRIVEWAY THERE. BUT I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND THE INCREASE IN IN IMPERVIOUS AREA. UM, WITH REGARDS TO THE WIDTH OF THE HOME, YES, OUR HOME IS WIDER THAN MOST HOMES. UH, OUR HOME IS ABOUT 92 FOOT FIVE INCHES WIDE. THE HOME TO THE, TO THE WEST OF US, WHICH IS, UM, 14 CORTLAND THAT'S 90 FEET WIDE AND ACROSS THE STREET FROM US, 15 CORTLAND, I'M NOT SURE, BUT I KNOW IT'S, IT'S WIDER THAN OUR HOME. HOW MUCH WIDER IT IS THAN THE 10 COURTLAND HOME? I'M NOT SURE. SO IF YOU ALSO LOOK AT THE OTHER LOTS, THERE ARE OTHER HOMES ON OTHER LOTS THAT ARE SMALLER LOTS AND THEY'RE MUCH, MUCH CLOSER TO THE, TO THE PROPERTY LINE. SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE SIZE OF [01:10:01] OUR LOT AND PROPORTIONAL WITH REGARDS TO THE WIDTH OF OUR HOME TO THE SIZE OF THE LOT, IT'S ACTUALLY, UH, HAS GREATER SEPARATION, GREATER DISTANCE BETWEEN THE PROPERTY LINE, UH, AND THE HOME TO HAVE THE HOME LOOK AS THOUGH IT'S MORE, UH, FREESTANDING ON THE PROPERTY. I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND THERE WAS A COMMENT REGARDING, YOU KNOW, THE PLACE IN THE HOME ON, ON THE CENTER OF, OF THE PROPERTY, UH, AS FAR AS WHEN THESE ESTATES WERE, WERE INITIALLY, UH, DEVELOPED YEARS AGO, YOU KNOW, CENTURY AGO. UM, AND THAT IS CONSISTENT WITH SOME OF THE HOMES, BUT NOT CONSISTENT WITH ALL THE HOMES. SO, UM, I THINK I ADDRESSED ALL THE COMMENTS THAT, UH, LEMME SEE HERE. OH, WE'VE GONE THE SETBACK. SO OUR HOME, OUR PORTS ON THE FRONT IS NO FURTHER BACK FROM THE PROPERTY THAN THE, THAN THE FRONT PORCH OR, OR ON THE, ON THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTY TO THE EAST OF US. YOU KNOW, AS MENTIONED, THE PORCHES ARE ALIGNED, JUST OUR PORCH IS NARROWER, IS MAYBE DEEPER. AND SO HIS HOME WAS PUSHED FURTHER BACK. SO THAT SEVEN FOOT DISTANCE IS NOT BECAUSE THE HOME IS CLOSE TO THE PROPERTY, IT'S BECAUSE OF MAYBE A LARGER PORCH. AND IF MOVING THE HOUSE BACK A FEW FEET HELPS, WE'RE CERTAINLY ABLE TO GO AHEAD AND ACCOMMODATE THAT. SO IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, PLEASE LET ME KNOW. OKAY, THANK YOU. I GUESS THAT WAS, THAT WAS GONNA BE MY QUESTION FOR YOU WAS WOULD YOU BE OPEN TO MOVING IT BACK? I MEAN, I SEE THERE'S 30 FEET BETWEEN THE BACK OF THE HOUSE AND THE GARAGE. YES. SO THERE SEEMS TO BE AMPLE SPACE TO PUSH IT BACK YES. AND, YOU KNOW, RELIEVE ITS PRESENCE FROM THE NEIGHBORS A LITTLE BIT. YEAH. PART OF, PART OF IT WAS CERTAINLY THE WORKING WITHIN THE FABRIC OF THE HISTORIC COMMUNITY AND HAVING THAT CONSISTENT LINE IN FRONT, BUT THAT MEANS THAT WE HAVE A LARGER PORCH IN, IN FRONT WHERE WE PUSH THE HOME BACK. FINE. IF YOU MOVE THE WHOLE BACK WHOLE PORCH AND HOME BACK A LITTLE BIT FURTHER, WE WE CAN CERTAINLY COORDINATE WITH THAT. UM, MAYBE, CAN I, SORRY, I, I DON'T KNOW. I I DON'T KNOW THAT THIS, I MEAN, IT'S HARD FOR ME TO TELL YOU A DISTANCE BACK, BUT I MEAN, OKAY. SO WE'VE, THIS IS THE THIRD TIME WE'VE SEEN THIS PROJECT THIS TIME. I THINK THEY MADE REAL CONCESSIONS THE LAST TIME. I DON'T THINK THEY DID. SO I, I THINK WE SHOULD TRY TO GIVE THEM SOME SPECIFIC FEEDBACK SO THEY CAN GET THIS THING OUTTA HERE. WELL, WE CAN, WE HAVE TO VOTE ON IT TODAY. Y YEAH, SO I THINK IF WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT PUSHING IT BACK LIKE FIVE FEET, FOUR FEET FINESSING THE RIGHT SIDE OF IT. I, I AGREE WITH YOUR COMMENT ABOUT THE ROOF LINE. I THINK WE SHOULD START TO FORMULATE SOME SUGGESTIONS THAT ARE, THAT ARE VERY SPECIFIC, MAYBE PUSHING IT BACK TO THE, TO THE WHATEVER THE FRONT EDGE OF NUMBER EIGHT IS, THE ONE THAT IT WILL STICK OUT BEYOND. SURE. POTENTIALLY, I MEAN, THAT WAY AT LEAST YOU'RE IN THAT PLANE WITH THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR, WHICH IS, IT'S IN PLAIN WITH NUMBER 12 RIGHT NOW. SO IT'S JUST THAT, BUT IT'S A LITTLE BIT FURTHER BACK AND, BUT 10 AND 12 WOULD THEN BE IN PLAIN. SO YOU'RE TRYING TO FIND SOME HARM, HARMONY. NO, WE'RE GOOD SIR. I, I, I HONESTLY WOULD MOVE FORWARD WITH THE MOTION THAT, THAT WE ACCEPT THE, WE, WE, WE ACCEPT THE DESIGN AS IS WITH THE SUGGESTION OF COMMISSIONER COUCH'S FLAT ROOF ON THE RIGHT SIDE AND PUSHING THE WHOLE, THE WHOLE BUILDING BACK BY FIVE FEET. THAT, THAT SOUNDS GOOD TO ME. WELL, BEFORE, BEFORE WE VOTE, I HAVE A QUESTION. I'M NOT FINISHED MY QUESTION YET. . THAT'S RIGHT. YEAH. UH, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE ARCHITECT. ARE YOU THE ARCHITECT, SIR? YES. OKAY. SO JUST NOW ALL THE OTHER PARTIES DID NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION AND NEITHER DID THIS PICTURE ANSWER MY QUESTION AS WELL. BUT LET ME ASK YOU THIS, BECAUSE YOU POINTED OUT SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT THAT WAS TO ME. UH, WHEN I LOOK AT YOUR RENDERING ON THIS, WHAT DO YOU CALL PAGE, THE SECOND TO LAST PAGE WITH ALL THE SITE PLAN OF ALL THE, UH, THE PROPERTY LINES ON THERE. CAN WE GO BACK THAT TO THAT PLEASE? AND BLOW IT UP PLEASE. OKAY. WHEN I JUST LOOK AT THE QUOTE UNQUOTE THE SECOND STORY, UH, ROOF LINE, UH, THIS IS MAYBE MY OBSERVATION, MAYBE I'M WRONG. THAT'S WHY I WANT TO GET YOU TO CLARIFY. I DON'T THINK YOUR HOUSE IS THAT MUCH WIDER THAN OTHER HOUSES AROUND IT. NOT WHEN YOU TAKE THE CENTER CORE PORTION, THE CENTER TWO STORY CORE PORTION OF THE HOME. NO, IT'S NOT. YES, I'M TALKING ABOUT JUST THE TWO STORY. I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE TWO ONE STORY THINGS ON THE SIDE. I'M LOOKING AT THE, IF I LOOK AT THE FRONT FACADE OF THE HOUSE, OKAY, THIS ONE, THAT'S WHAT'S BELOW THIS, THIS PARK IS NOT THAT MUCH WIDER THAN THIS PART. IT'S NOT THAT MUCH WIDER THAN THIS PART. THAT'S THE TWO STORY PART, RIGHT? THAT'S CORRECT. YES. AND THAT'S THE TWO STORY PART AS WELL. SO WHEN, WHEN THEY SAY MASSING, I GUESS THAT'S BECAUSE THOSE THAT ARE EQUAL TO YOURS IN TWO STORY, BUT DO NOT EXTEND AS FAR BACK BECAUSE YOUR HOUSE IS ACTUALLY DEEPER IN THE SENSE, RIGHT? YES. SO WHAT IS IT THAT WE CARE ABOUT? DO WE CARE ABOUT THE SIZE OR DO WE CARE ABOUT WHEN WE LOOK IN THE FRONT? ACTUALLY IT LOOKS PRETTY SIMILAR IN THE TWO STORY SECTION. WELL, [01:15:01] I MEAN, YES, BUT THAT'S A QUESTION I WANT TO POSE OUT TO EVERYBODY THERE. I MEAN, YES, IT, AS IT'S LAID OUT HERE, IT'S WITHIN THE NEIGHBOR'S SECOND STORY MASSING. BUT THEN WHEN YOU ADD THE NEIGHBORS DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TWO, TWO FLANKING, ONE STORY SIDES THAT ARE ALREADY WANNA REDUCE SCREEN SPACE. IF YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURES, PROBABLY A THIRD OF 'EM HAVE ONE STORY ADDITIONS ON EITHER SIDE OF 'EM. YES. SO I, I THINK THE HOUSE IS FINE. THE HOUSE IS, I THINK WE NEED TO MOVE FORWARD AND GIVE HIM SUGGESTIONS AND VOTE ON THIS TO CHAIR. MAY HE JUST CONFIRM MY QUESTION THAT THE HOUSE IS, THE TWO STORY PORTION IS NOT WIDER THAN MOST OF THE OTHER HOUSES. WE, WE CAN SEE THAT FROM THE, ALL THE INFORMATION THEY'VE GIVEN US. ROMAN, YOU WOULD ADD TO THIS JUST THE POINT OF ORDER FOR THE COMMISSION. UH, SECTION 33, 2 39 OF THE CODE OF ORDINANCES DOES ALLOW AN EXCEPTION TO THE THREE MEETING ANALYSIS BEFORE A DECISION DEADLINE BECAUSE IT STATES THAT THE APPLICATION SHALL BE DEEMED APPROVED UNLESS THE APPLICANT CONSENTS IN WRITING TO AN EXTENSION TO A SPECIFIED DATE. I JUST WANNA LET YOU KNOW THAT ABOUT THAT BECAUSE THAT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE POSSIBLY IN THIS CONVERSATION. YOU'RE JUST SAYING THAT, UM, TYPICALLY WE CAN'T DEFER A PROJECT AGAIN BECAUSE WE CAN ONLY DEFER SO MANY TIMES. BUT IF THE APPLICANT IS WILLING TO DEFER AND PROPOSE CHANGES THAT CAN OCCUR, THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT I UNDERSTAND. IS THAT WHAT I THINK YOU'RE SAYING? YES. THE GENERAL RULE WOULD BE THAT YOU HAVE TO ACT ON IT WITHIN THAT TIME. THAT'S TO GET THE APPLICANT THE FINAL DECISION TO MOVE FORWARD. YOU MAY STILL DO THAT. UM, IF THERE'S ENOUGH DISCUSSION AND OR CONDITIONS THAT THE APPLICANT FEELS LIKE HE NEEDS MORE TIME TO ADDRESS THESE AND BRING IT BACK, HE NEEDS TO, TO DO SO IN WRITING. I THINK EMAIL SUFFICES. THIS IS HOW WE TREAT IT AT PLANNING COMMISSION AS WELL. SO, OKAY. COMMISSIONER MCNEIL, WOULD YOU LIKE TO TEST? SURE. YOUR, UH, YOUR RECOMMENDATION PLEASE. COMMISSIONER M UH, THERE WAS ONE COMMENT FROM FISHER STAAVA AS WELL ABOUT THE NATURE OF, OF THE FRONT PORCH. YOU, YOU, YOU DON'T, YOU DON'T HAVE THAT ISSUE. OKAY. THANK YOU. AND , BEFORE, BEFORE YOU MAKE YOUR MOTION, I WOULD JUST SUGGEST WE DON'T SPECIFY A NUMBER OF FEET FOR THE SET FOR, FOR CONSIDERING SETTING THE HAL BACK SOMEWHAT JUST TO CONSIDER ITS ADJACENCY TO, UH, EIGHT AND SIX CORAL, WHICH ARE IN THE SAME PLANE. I THINK IT'S AN IMPROVEMENT. I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT. WHAT ABOUT 12 AND 14? HOW DO YOU JUST CHERRY PICK TWO HOUSES TO ONE SIDE AND NOT THE HOUSES TO THE OTHER SIDE? WELL, BECAUSE OF THE ISSUE THAT, UH, THAT COMMISSIONER COSGROVE MENTIONED, WHICH IS THAT IF IT'S SET BACK SLIGHTLY, IT MIGHT, UH, IMPROVE THE, UH, APPEARANCE IN TERMS OF ITS SCALE FROM THE STREET. I AGREE. BUT THEN WHO DECIDES HOW FAR BACK IT CAN GO? WELL, IT'S JUST, JUST REFERENCE RE THE ADJACENT EIGHT CORTLAND WITHOUT SPECIFYING A NUMBER OF FEET. 'CAUSE WE DON'T HAVE INFORMATION ON HOW MANY FEET DOES, I GUESS IF IT'S NOT SEEMING TO BE ACCEPTABLE TO BE UP AT THE FRONT FOR NUMBER 14, PERHAPS THE DISTANCE OF NUMBER EIGHT IS A BETTER REFERENCE POINT, WHICH SEEMS TO PUT IT ALSO IN LINE WITH THE NEXT THREE HOUSES TO THE EAST. THAT'S, AND SO THAT IS A, INSTEAD OF AN ARBITRARY FIVE FEET, WE'RE GIVING THEM A POINT WITH WHICH TO START WITH. AND THIS IS JUST THE FRONT WALL OF THE HOUSE. IF THE PORCH EXTENDS BEYOND THAT SEEMS TO BE MORE TYPICAL OF THE HOUSES ON THE BLOCK ANYWAY. SO I MEAN, I I JUST FEEL LIKE THAT'S A BETTER, WE NEED TO GIVE THEM A REFERENCE POINT AND EIGHT MAKES MORE SENSE TO ME THAN 14. SO I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE ACCEPT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL WITH THE CONDITION THAT THE ROOF ON THE RIGHT SIDE ADDITION BE FLAT OR LOW PITCH. UM, THAT ALL THE BALUSTRADE ACROSS THE FRONT APPEARANCE OF THE HOUSE BE THE SAME HEIGHT AND THAT THE ENTIRE HOUSE BE SET BACK IN LINE WITH NUMBER EIGHT, WITH THE FRONT OF NUMBER EIGHT, WHICH WE BELIEVE TO BE SOMEWHERE BETWEEN FIVE AND 10 FEET. AND THAT THE BAST TRADE WOULD BE THIS ALIGNED WITH THE SAME HEIGHT, UM, AS THE, AS THE COR SHARE. PER, YEAH. DIDN'T I SAY THE ENTIRE FRONT OF THE HOUSE? MM-HMM . YEAH. IS THAT ACCURATE? THIS WILL REFERENCE, THAT WAS THE SUGGESTION FOR MR. BLAKE. YEAH. NOW IT'S IN THE MOTION. AND I'M ASSUMING THAT STAFF WOULD HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THIS? ABSOLUTELY. THE STAFF WOULD LOVE TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THE SUBMISSION BEFORE GIVING THEM A PERMIT. I'LL SECOND YOUR MOTION BEFORE I CALL THAT VOTE. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? UH, ONE, SORRY TO COMMENT IN HERE. I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT COMMISSIONER STAVES COMMENT IS CONSIDERED, UH, REGARDING, UM, THE, [01:20:01] THE APPEARANCE OF A FILLED IN PORCH ON THE RIGHT DIDN'T WANT YOU. I'LL SAY THAT DOES CONCERN ME BECAUSE WHEN THERE IS A PORCH THAT MAY, MAY HAVE BEEN A SCREENED IN PORCH, IT GETS FILLED IN, IT GETS FILLED IN MAINLY WITH WINDOWS AND IT STILL KIND OF HAS THAT, AND I WOULD SUGGEST THAT THAT BE ADDED TO YOUR LIST AND IT'D BE UP TO STAFF TO RESOLVE THAT CONFIGURATION. BE BECAUSE I'VE NEVER SEEN A SCREEN PORCH FILLED IN AND BECAME OPAQUE IN ALL ON, ON ALL THOSE FACETS FACING THE FRONT AND THE FACING THE SIDE VIEW. SO YOU FEEL LIKE WINDOWS IN BETWEEN THE THE PILE LESTER WOULD BE YES. WOULD BE, WOULD BE MORE IN LINE. I WOULD BE OPEN TO TO THAT AS THE SECOND, IF THE FIRST IS OPEN TO THAT. I, I'M, YEAH. IN, IN CONTINUING MY MOTION, UH, I I'M LOOKING AT A FRONT ELEVATION THAT HAS THREE FIXED WINDOWS OR DOORS WITH HIGH LASTERS IN BETWEEN. I'M REALLY REFERRING TO THE SIDE OF THAT ELEMENT. YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE EAST ELEVATION, NOT THE FRONT ELEVATION. SO I THINK HE'S SAYING HE WANTS TO SEE WINDOWS HERE. OH, YOU WANT WINDOWS IN CURVES AROUND. GOTCHA. GOTCHA. AND, AND, AND SO I'D ALSO LIKE TO RECOMMEND THAT, UH, THE DEVELOPER OR THE, THE APPLICATION INCLUDE INSTALLING TWO WINDOWS ON THE EAST ELEVATION THAT MATCH THE THREE WINDOWS OR FIXED DOORS ON THE FRONT ELEVATION. IT WAS A SUGGESTION FROM COMMISSIONER STAAVA AND IS THIS INITIAL POINT, COMMISSIONER STAAVA CAN TAKE ALL THE CREDIT HE WANTS, SO DEFER. OKAY. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? I DO HAVE A QUESTION. COMMISSIONER STAAVA, IS IT POSSIBLE TO REPLACE WINDOWS IN THE FRONT WITH THE, UH, FRENCH DOORS SO IT LOOKS MORE MAYBE APPROPRIATE? UM, SUN FOR THE SUN PORCH. YEAH. DESIGNING FROM THE, YEAH, YOU GUYS, THIS IS A LOT. YOU'RE REDESIGNING THIS THING. I KNOW, I KNOW. I, I COMFORTABLE WITH MOTION? YEAH. I'LL, I'LL SECOND IT. THAT WAS JUST, THAT WAS JUST ONE STICKING POINT FOR ME. COMMISSIONER STAAVA SAYS, ALL IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION. AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED? AYE. ON THIS SIDE? ANY OPPOSED? I'M GONNA HAVE TO ABSTAIN SINCE I WASN'T HERE FOR THE INITIAL COMMENTARY THAT SHE JUST, BUT I HAVE THREE OPPOSED. OKAY. SO THAT MOTION IMP PASSES. READY? ARE WE MOVING TO THE NEXT ITEM? YES, SIR. OKAY, THANK YOU. WHICH IS ITEM 6 1 1 0 8 EAST 16TH STREET. OH, A CHAIR. ACTUALLY, UH, I NEED TO ASK, UH, UH, I KNOW I CAN SEE LEGAL'S PACKING BAGS OVER THERE. SHE'S GOT A, WE ARE GONNA LOSE JUDGE. NO, I'M NOT PACKING . STOP. I MEAN, AS, AS A MEETING, SORRY TO ATTEND, BUT I WANNA MAKE, I WANTED TO MOVE UP ONE ITEM IF I COULD JUST FOR, I HAVE TO BE OUT OF HERE FOR A FOUR O'CLOCK CALL. OKAY. THAT WE CALL WILL TAKE ABOUT 20 MINUTES. I WOULD OH, PERFECT. OKAY. I WOULD SUGGEST YOU PROCEED IN ORDER. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. LIKE I JUST, WE HAD ONE ITEM THAT IS SO GREAT. WE'LL GO TO ITEM, UH, SIX THEN. 1108 EAST 16TH. UM, YEAH, APOLOGIZE FOR THAT CLARIFICATION. IT'S JUST THE NEXT ITEM. FEW GA I KNOW I, WE MIGHT NEED TO HAVE, UH, ATTENTION ON THAT ONE. THIS IS A, UH, 11 0 80 16TH STREET IN NORTH NOR HILL IS A CONTRIBUTING 1920 BUNGALOW. IT'S AN ALTERATION. THE APPLICANT WOULD LIKE TO REMOVE THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS AND REPLACE THEM WITH NEW WOOD WINDOWS. THE PROPOSED NEW WOOD WINDOWS WOULD BE DOUBLE HUNG AND PRIMED PINE WOOD BY THE SIERRA PACIFIC COMPANY. THE NOR HILL NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION SUPPORTS THIS APPLICATION AND SOMEONE IS HERE TO SPEAK TO THAT. HOWEVER, A STAFF IS RECOMMENDING DENIAL IF WE MOVE FORWARD. UM, AND THIS, BY THE WAY, THIS APPLICATION IS BEING PRODUCED BY THE NEW HISTORIC PRESERVATION TRACKER. SO IT LOOKS A LITTLE DIFFERENT, BUT THE CRITERIA THAT THAT STAFF IS LIMITED BY IS THE CRITERIA ON PAGE, UH, TWO THERE. SECTION 33, 2 41, 1, THAT THE REMOVAL OF THE ORIGINAL WOOD WINDOWS ARE, THAT ARE REPAIRABLE DOES NOT PRESERVE THE DISTINGUISHING CHARACTER OF THE HOUSE. AND ALSO NUMBER, UH, ONE, UH, THAT THE PROPOSED ACTIVITY SHALL RETAIN AND PRESERVE THE HISTORICAL CHARACTER OF THE PROPERTY. ORIGINAL HISTORIC WOODWINDS ARE A CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURE OF HOMES IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. AS YOU CAN SEE IN THE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE WINDOWS ON THE FOLLOWING [01:25:01] PAGE, THESE WINDOWS ARE IN, IN PRETTY GOOD CONDITION. I WOULD, I WOULD ACTUALLY PUT THEM ON THE UPPER END OF CONDITIONS THAT WE SEE. UM, I DID VISIT WITH THE APPLICANTS WHO COULD NOT BE HERE TODAY, BUT DO I DO HAVE, UM, A COMMENT LATER IN THIS DOCUMENT FROM THEM. AND SO WE GO THROUGH THOSE IMAGES. YOU CAN SEE ALL THE WINDOWS. THEY HAVE SASH, WEIGHTS AND ROPES. UH, THEY, I THINK MAY BE PAINTED SHUT ON THE LAST PAGE IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE SIERRA PACIFIC PRODUCT THAT IS SUPPORTED BY THE NOR HILL NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION FOR A REPLACEMENT WINDOW. NOW, FROM THE OWNER, THERE'S A COMMENT HERE I'D LIKE TO READ INTO THE RECORD. AND THAT IS THAT HE SAYS THAT BEING A MACHINIST AND A MACHINE SHOP OWNER, UH, I'VE HAD TO WORK ON MANY PROJECTS WITH THE EMPLOYEES AND ON MY OWN, I AM A PERFECTIONIST THAT MACHINED PARTS THAT ARE STILL ON THE MOON AND MY QUEST TO MAKE OUR HOME DUST-FREE, MORE COMFORTABLE WITH ENERGY EFFICIENT INSULATED WINDOWS. I HAVE CHOSEN THE DOUBLE-HUNG WINDOWS PER THE PROVIDED INFORMATION. IN ADDITION, THE COMPANY THAT I HAVE CHOSEN HAS AN IMPECCABLE REPUTATION FOR THOSE THAT HAVEN'T SEEN OUR HOME, UH, MY WIFE AND I WHO WOULD LIKE TO WELCOME ALL AND THANK YOU AND LET ME KNOW IF I CAN BE OF FURTHER ASSISTANCE. AND THAT'S FROM JOHN AND HARRIET. UH, MAY, UM, AND I'LL TAKE ANY QUESTIONS. WE'RE RECOMMENDING DENIAL OF THE REPLACEMENT OF THESE WINDOWS BECAUSE WE'RE IN AN UNUSUAL TERRITORY FOR US HERE. BUT I'LL ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. OKAY. I THINK BEFORE I HAVE A QUESTION. OKAY. I, I DO HAVE SOMEONE TO SIGN UP TO SPEAK ON THE ITEM NONETHELESS. UM, BUT, UM, WHY DON'T YOU ASK ROMAN YOUR QUESTION FIRST, MR. MCNEIL? SO, IN THE PAST, THIS COMMISSION HAS APPROVED REPLACING WINDOWS ON HISTORIC HOMES. UM, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THE NOR HILL ASSOCIATION HAS APPROVED OF THIS ANUM ALSO, I GUESS, CONFUSED THAT BECAUSE I'VE HEARD THAT THE STATE HISTORICAL COMMISSION APPROVES OF REPLACING WINDOWS SO LONG AS ALL THE HOLES STAY THE SAME. AND SO, UM, I GUESS I DON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE STATE HISTORICAL ASSOCIATION'S, UM MM-HMM . RULE THAT SAYS YOU CAN REPLACE WINDOWS AND MAYBE THAT THE HOUSTON DESIGN GUIDELINES SAY YOU CAN'T REPLACE WINDOWS. AND SO I JUST NEED CLARIFICATION. YES. AND ROMAN, WE COULD PUT UP, WE COULD PUT THE ORDINANCE UP. I MEAN, THERE'S LANGUAGE IN THE ORDINANCE. YES. IF WE COULD JUST ABOUT WINDOWS ORDINANCE IN THE NATIONAL SERVICE, OUR ORDINANCE, ACTUALLY THERE'S ANOTHER CATEGORY. YEAH. SO I'LL JUST RESTATE YOUR MICROPHONE WAS OFF OF MR. UH, SWEETHEART JACKSON. BUT IF THE WINDOW IS NOT REPAIRABLE OR REASON WITHIN REASONABLE REPAIR, WE'VE ALLOWED REPLACEMENT. UM, THIS APPLICATION IS FOR REPLACEMENT OF ALL WINDOWS. UM, AND SOMETIMES WE SEE PROJECTS THAT HAVE SOME WINDOWS THAT ARE, THAT ARE NEED TO BE REPAIRED AND REPLACED PERHAPS, AND SOME THAT ARE IN VERY GOOD CONDITION. THIS IS A CASE WHERE THE WINDOWS ARE ACTUALLY IN VERY GOOD CONDITION. AND OBVIOUSLY ONE COULD ALSO ADD INTO A STORM WINDOWS AND HAVE A DUSTY AIRTIGHT ENVIRONMENT WITHOUT, UH, CHANGING THE WINDOWS. I DO HAVE ONE SPEAKER SIGN UP FOR THIS ITEM, AND I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT WILL, WILL INFORM THE CONVERSATION, BUT, BUT IT IS, WE HAVE AN ORDINANCE PASSED BY CITY COUNCIL THAT SAYS IF A WINDOW IS EASILY REPAIRABLE, IT, IT NEEDS TO BE RETAINED. AND SO, YOU KNOW, AND OB OBVIOUSLY WE'VE NOT LOOKED AT THAT ON THE REAR OF STRUCTURES. WE'VE, IF WE CAN'T SEE IT FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY, WE, YOU KNOW, WE, WE, WE, WE DON'T REGULATE THAT. BUT THAT'S KIND OF THE, THE DIFFERENCE IS WE CAN PUT THAT LANGUAGE UP BECAUSE IT'S STILL, IT'S JUST BASIC TEXT. THE CRITERIA, THE CRITERIA. IT'S NOT ON THIS DRAFT OUT OF OUR NEW SOLUTION, IF, IF YOU HAVE TIME TO GET TO THE CODE ON ANOTHER, UH, IT WOULD BE, UH, I THINK IT'S NUMBER 10 OR IN THERE ABOUT WINDOWS. THAT'S GONNA BE SIR ROMAN. UM, I DON'T NEED TO SEE IT. I'M HAPPY TO HEAR FROM THE SPEAKER. OKAY. BUT I, BUT I DO WANT TO POINT OUT AND ALSO ADD TO, UH, WHAT THE CHAIR'S COMMENTS ARE. FOR EXAMPLE, ON ITEM FIVE, RIGHT ABOVE IS 7 0 1 KEY STREET NOR HILL. AND THAT APPLICANT AT ORIGINALLY ASKED TO REPLACE ALL OF THEIR WINDOWS. BUT WE WENT OUT TO THE SITE AND OUR, YOU KNOW, WHERE I ASKED THE TEAM TO BE IS IF 50% OR MORE OF THE WINDOWS ARE GONNA BE ALL NEW WOOD. AND I KNOW THIS IS NOT EXACTLY WHERE EVERYONE LANDS. WE HAD TO FIGURE OUT WHAT DO WE CONSIDER REPAIRABLE AND WHAT WE, WHEN I SEE MEETING RAILS THAT ARE ALL DECAYED, AND YOU'RE GONNA END UP WITH MAYBE TWO PIECES OF THE TWO SASHES LEFT, THEN WE'RE GONNA SAY IT'S OKAY TO REPLACE THEM. AND SO ON NINE, OH ON 7 0 1 KEY, FOR EXAMPLE, THE CONDITION IS THAT THEY RETAIN THE FRONT WINDOWS, THEY'RE UNDER THE PORCH AND THEY'RE IN REAL GOOD CONDITION. BUT EVERYTHING DOWN THAT SIDE WAS AS BAD AS THEY GET. AND SO WE RECOMMENDED THAT THEY, THEY [01:30:01] WOULD BE ALLOWED TO REPLACE THOSE AS AN EXAMPLE OF WHEN WE SUPPORT THE REPLACEMENT. OKAY. I'LL UP THE PUBLIC HEARING, I DO HAVE ONE SPEAKER SIGN UP FOR THIS ITEM, WHICH IS, UM, VIRGINIA KELSEY. HELLO, I'M VIRGINIA KELSEY. I'M THE VICE PRESIDENT OF NOR HILL DEED RESTRICTIONS. ALTHOUGH I PERSONALLY FEEL IT IS IMPORTANT TO RETAIN AS MUCH HISTORIC MATERIAL AS POSSIBLE. I MEAN, I, I REALLY DO. UH, NOR HILL HAS BEEN OVERWHELMED WITH REQUESTS FROM OWNERS WISHING TO UPGRADE THEIR WINDOWS. THIS IS COMING FROM THOSE THAT WANNA RETAIN THE ORIGINAL SCALE OF THE HOUSE AND NOT JUST PEOPLE THAT WANT BIG HOUSES. THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE A HUNDRED PERCENT DEVOTED TO THEIR LITTLE BITTY THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT HOUSE. THEY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE NEW WINDOWS. THEIR WINDOWS ARE A HUNDRED YEAR OLD AND IN SOME CASES THEY HAVEN'T BEEN MAINTAINED. THEY MAY APPEAR TO BE, BUT THEY LEAK. SOME OF 'EM DON'T ALL OPEN. AND IT REALLY IS SOMETHING THAT WE ARE BEING INUNDATED WITH. AND THE CITY IS BEEN INCONSISTENT AS OFTEN THEY CAN BE WITH APPROVALS. AND IN SOME CASES THEY COME IN WITH VINYL WINDOWS THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED BY THE CITY. SO NOR HILL IN OUR TRYING TO GET AHEAD OF ALL OF THIS, WE ADOPTED GUIDELINES IN MAY AND WE ALLOWED THE REPLACEMENT. IF THEY ARE THE EXISTING SIZE AND THE SAME PLACEMENT IN THE WALL AND THEY ARE WOOD OR METAL, ALUMINUM CLAD, BUT NO VINYL AND NO VINYL CLAD, I THINK AN APPROPRIATE COMPROMISE WOULD BE TO HAVE ONLY ALL WOOD WINDOWS REPLACE. AND I DO BELIEVE, ALTHOUGH I LOVE THE IDEA OF RETAINING THE HISTORIC CHARACTER, IT WOULD REALLY HELP THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO SURVIVE GOING FORWARD BECAUSE THIS IS SO IMPORTANT TO SO MANY PEOPLE. UM, AND WE HAVE TOLD EACH APPLICANT THAT THE CITY HAS A DIFFERENT OPINION MOTION. GRANT THE SPEAKER ONE MORE MINUTE AT A TIME. IS THERE A SECOND JOHN? SECONDS. BUT IN THE LAST MONTH, I BET WE HAVE HAD FIVE OR SIX REQUESTS JUST IN THE LAST MONTH. AND I DO THINK IT'S, IF WE DO IT AND GET AHEAD OF IT AND CONTROL IT SO THAT IT, LIKE THE WINDOW THAT THEY SUGGEST THERE, THAT IS WOOD. IT'S NOT DISCERNIBLE FROM THE STREET FROM WHAT IS EXISTING. IT SHOULD BE ALLOWED. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. YOU HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE SPEAKER? OKAY. FOR ROMAN. SORRY. THANK YOU. UH, I HAVE A QUESTION ACTUALLY FOR THIS, KELSEY. OKAY. UH, I, I ACTUALLY, UH, APPLAUD YOU FOR YOUR PROACTIVE, UH, NATURE IN THIS THING BECAUSE WINDOWS ARE THE WORST FOR, FOR ALL HISTORIC HOMES TO MAINTAIN. BUT I WOULD LIKE TO DELVE FURTHER INTO WHY DID YOU THINK THAT YOU WANT TO MOVE PAST REPAIR AND GO STRAIGHT TO CHANGE NEW? BECAUSE THERE ARE EXPERTS IN TOWN THAT COULD REPAIR, UH, OLD SASHES. TYPICALLY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SASHES HAVING THE PROBLEMS AND THE RAILS. YEAH. BUT THOSE ARE VERY, UH, MOBILE. YOU CAN ACTUALLY TAKE IT OUT AND REPAIR THE, THE, UH, THE RAILS AND THE SASHES ITSELF. SO WHY DID, UH, NOR HILL DID NOT WANT TO GO THIS ROUTE FIRST BEFORE REPLACEMENT? I'LL ANSWER THAT FOR YOU. WHEN SOMEONE ASKED ME FOR A WINDOW, THE FIRST THING I DO IS TELL THEM, WHY DON'T YOU REPAIR THE WINDOWS? THERE ARE THESE COMPANIES, WE GIVE THEM THE NAMES OF THE COMPANIES. THE PROBLEM IS THAT IF EVERYBODY, I MEAN, THE BACKLOG OF THOSE COMPANIES ARE MONTHS AND MONTHS AND MONTHS. AND IF EVERYBODY THAT WANTS A NEW WINDOW USED THEM, THERE'D BE YEARS. BECAUSE THERE'S JUST A LIMITED NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT CAN DO IT SUCCESSFULLY. THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT JUST SLAP THINGS TOGETHER THAT DON'T DO IT IN A, IN A GOOD WAY. AND THEN THEY'RE LEFT WITH A MAJOR EXPENSE AND A WINDOW THAT ISN'T AS GOOD. SO WE FEEL, AND I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE YOU SAY IT COULD ONLY BE WOOD WINDOWS FOR WOOD WINDOWS AND ALLOW THAT, THAT AT LEAST THESE WINDOWS LOOK PRETTY MUCH EXACTLY LIKE THE WIND IS THERE EXCEPT FOR THE GLASS. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OF THE SPEAKER? ROMAN, THERE'S A QUESTION OF OH, SURE. THANK, THANK YOU. YES, ROMAN ON SINCE YOU, SINCE YOU, UH, [01:35:01] BROUGHT IT UP. I, THIS IS OUR FIRST TIME SEEING THESE, THIS NEW LAYOUT. THERE'S NO INVENTORY PHOTO HERE. SO ALL WE'RE SEEING ARE THE PICTURES OF THE WINDOWS. OH, IS THAT CORRECT? I MEAN IT, UH, THAT, THAT'S ALL WE'VE GOT IN THE PACKET. SO I CAN'T SEE IF THERE IS A STREET VIEW. GOOGLE IF THERE ARE WINDOWS UNDER THE FRONT PORCH. BUT I THINK YOUR SOLUTION AT 7 0 1 KEY IS, IS, UM, VIABLE HERE. COULD BE VIABLE HERE. IF I COULD SEE THE INVENTORY PHOTO WE'RE GONNA BRING UP ON THE FRONT FACADE. MM-HMM . WE MAINTAIN THE ORIGINAL MATERIALS AND WINDOWS AND PERHAPS RECOMMEND FOR A DUST OR NOISE OR CONDITIONING THAT WINDOW INSERTS BE ADDED TO THE FRONT WINDOWS. AND THEN ALLOW THE REPLACEMENT OF THE OTHER THREE ELEVATIONS OF THE HOME. BUT I CAN'T SEE IT. WE'RE GONNA BRING YOU UP WITH GOOGLE. DO A GOOGLE. WE'RE GONNA BRING UP, THEY HAVE A, THERE'S A GOOD CURRENT GOOGLE STREET VIEW THAT WILL PULL UP SO YOU CAN GET SENSE THAT. AND THERE ARE WINDOWS ON THE PORCH. I ACTUALLY SPENT, UM, A FEW MINUTES ON THE FRONT PORCH WITH THE APPLICANTS AND THE PROPERTY OWNERS. AND, UM, I WANNA COMMENT ON THE WINDOW. YOU KNOW, ONE THING BECAUSE I'VE PERSONALLY RESTORED ABOUT A HUNDRED OF THESE WINDOWS AND I'VE BEEN IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOODS. AND ONE THING A LITTLE UNIQUE ABOUT THE WINDOWS, 'CAUSE THIS IS GONNA COME UP FOR US IN THE DESIGN GUIDELINE DISCUSSION THAT'S RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER. ONE THING UNIQUE ABOUT THE NOR HILL, UH, WINDOWS, THAT LATER PERIOD, THE, A LOT OF TIMES I ACTUALLY SEE FLAT GLASS IN THE WINDOWS, EVEN ORIGINAL FLAT GLASS. A LOT OF TIMES I SEE WOOD QUALITY OF THE DOUBLE HUNG WOOD WINDOWS THAT IS A LOWER GRADE WOOD THAN IF THAN YOU FIND IN THE HEIGHTS AND IN THE OTHER OLDER NEIGHBORHOODS. UM, AND THEN EVEN FINALLY, SOMETIMES THE WAY THE SASH SYSTEM WORKS IS DIFFERENT AS, AS WE WERE, 'CAUSE WE WERE JUST MOVING AT THIS POINT, OF COURSE, TO A DIFFERENT TYPE OF WINDOW. UH, JUST POINTING THAT OUT. BUT THE APPLICANTS, I DID POINT, I DID ASK HIM AND I THOUGHT, I THOUGHT OF YOU COMMISSIONER, BECAUSE I, I TALKED ABOUT THE PRODUCT, UH, THAT NO, I LOVE MY, THE, THE ENDO WINDOW PRODUCT THERE ON THE FRONT PORCH. UM, BUT THESE APPLICANTS, UM, IF HE WERE HERE, HE WOULD TELL YOU, I, I'M 81 YEARS OLD, I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF TIME TO WAIT. I WANT MY WINDOWS IN THERE. UM, SO HE, UH, WE DID HAVE A GOOD DISCUSSION. WE DID TALK ABOUT PRESERVING THE FRONT PORCH SPECIFICALLY, WHICH FACES NORTH IN THEIR CASE. AND THEY WERE THEN WHEN THE WIND, WHEN OUR COLD FRONTS COME, THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT THEY WERE THINKING ABOUT. BUT YOU'RE RECOMMENDING NO FOR ANY REPLACEMENT. WE ARE AGAIN, AND I'LL SAY HONESTLY, THERE WAS SOME TREPIDATION KIND OF OVERALL WITH US, BUT OUR ORDINANCE IS PRETTY CLEAR ON, ON THAT. SO WE HAD THEIR REPAIRABLE, WE HAD TO STAND WHERE WE STAND RIGHT NOW. MAYBE SOMETHING'S GONNA CHANGE WHEN THE GUIDELINES ARE ADOPTED, BUT I GUESS I'M TRYING TO, FOR THE SAKE OF, OF, AND I, WE, WE CONSIDER EACH PROPERTY INDIVIDUALLY, BUT YOU MENTIONED 7 0 1 KEY STREET. IS THERE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THESE TWO PROPERTIES AND HOW YOU ARE INTERPRETING THE ORDINANCE? THERE'S ABSOLUTES A BIG DIFFERENCE BECAUSE THE, THE WINDOWS THAT WERE NOT ON THE FRONT PORCH ON THAT PROPERTY WERE REALLY IN BAD SHAPE. THE, I MEAN, THE SASHES HAD TO BE REPLACED ENTIRELY BECAUSE THEY WERE NO LONGER, THE RAILS WEREN'T MEETING. AND WE COULD BRING UP THOSE PICTURES IF YOU'D LIKE TO IF'S ALLOWABLE. BUT THE, UH, I GUESS, YOU KNOW, THIS IS I THINK ANOTHER CASE WHERE, I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE CONSENSUS IS IN THIS BODY, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE HAD A CAMP DISCUSSION. HE COULD ZOOM MANY, MANY, LIKE A YEAR AGO NOW, AND I THINK A YEAR AGO THIS MONTH. YEAH. AND WE HAVE NOT HAD A FOLLOW UP MEETING TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS AMONGST OURSELVES ABOUT WINDOWS GENERALLY. SO WHAT WE HAVE IS WHAT THE ORDINANCE IS THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVED. IT'S MENTIONED THAT THERE, THERE ARE SOME DESIGN GUIDELINES THAT HAVE BEEN, UH, PASSED LOCALLY WITHIN, UM, THE NEIGHBORHOOD. BUT THOSE HAVE NOT COME, YOU KNOW, THE GUIDELINES THAT ARE WORKING THROUGH THAT WE'RE GONNA BE LOOKING AT OR MAKING COMMENTS ON, AND ALSO GOING TO CITY COUNCIL. THEY HAVEN'T, THAT, THAT HASN'T OCCURRED YET. SO THOSE GUIDE, THOSE GUIDELINES AREN'T, AREN'T PART OF OUR PURVIEW AT THIS TIME. WE'RE STILL SUBJECT TO THE ORDINANCE THAT WE HAVE. BUT, SO THIS IS THE CONDITION OF THE WINDOWS, UM, THAT WERE ON THE PROPERTY ON THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE, WHICH WERE ALLOWED TO BE REPLACED WITH NEW WINDOWS. AND YOU CAN SEE THEY'RE NOT EVEN CONNECTED TO EACH OTHER. UM, SO THE, THE, THE DIFFERENCE IS SIMPLY THE QUALITY OF THE CONDITION AND HOW OUR CURRENT ORDINANCE IS WRITTEN. AND IF WE ARE TO CHANGE OUR POSITION, WE NEED TO HAVE DISCUSSIONS, PUBLIC DISCUSSIONS, PUBLIC INPUT. AND ULTIMATELY AS OUR CAMP, UH, PRESENTERS ALL AGREED, WE HAVE TO CHANGE OUR ORDINANCE IF WE WANT TO MAKE CHANGES OR NUANCE OR ASPECTS. SO I THINK THIS, THIS IS WHY THIS IS DIFFERENT. UM, THIS APPLICATION'S DIFFERENT THAN THE OTHER APPLICATION THAT WAS DISCUSSED. YEAH. UM, WE, AND, [01:40:01] AND, BUT AS ROMAN HAS SAID, WE HAVE TRIED TO AT LEAST PROTECT THE WINDOWS ON THE FRONT PORCH. UM, IF THERE WAS A CASE WHERE THE WINDOW LOOKED LIKE IT COULD BE REPAIRED ON THE SIDE, BUT IT WAS ALSO DISTRESSED. SO WE SORT OF HAD THESE THREE DIFFERENT POSITIONS FLOATING AROUND EITHER REPAIR, THEY'RE, THEY'RE GOOD SHAPE, OR THEY'RE TERRIBLE LIKE THIS, AND YOU CAN REPLACE THEM. AND YOU OTHER ASPECT IS, UM, OUR ORDINANCE IS WRITTEN THAT IF, IF YOUR WINDOW CAN'T REALLY BE REPAIRED AND THEREFORE YOU CAN REPLACE IT, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A WOOD WINDOW, AS LONG AS IT LOOKS LIKE A WOOD WINDOW. I MEAN, THAT'S IN THE ORDINANCE. AND SO UNTIL THAT LANGUAGE CHANGES, THAT'S STILL, THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO INTERPRET AND TRY TO FIND CONSENSUS AROUND. BUT ON ANY GIVEN PROJECT, THIS COMMISSION CAN STILL FIND A CONSENSUS, WHATEVER THAT CONSENSUS IS, THAT THAT'S STILL, THAT, THAT'S WITHIN YOUR PURVIEW TO FIND. SO, YOU KNOW, WELL, MR. CHAIR, BASED ON YOUR, YOUR COUNSEL, I WOULD JUST, UH, CAN I MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO ACCEPT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION? CERTAINLY A MOTION. SORRY. A MOTION. WE, WE CAN CONTEST ANY MOTION. YEAH, NO. A MOTION TO ACCEPT STAFF'S, STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION BECAUSE TO ME, THERE, THERE, UH, THE RULE OF THE LAW RIGHT NOW STILL STANDS. IF IT IS REPAIRABLE, IT SHOULD BE REPAIRED. THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING. COMMISSIONER STAR A SECONDS. I WANNA PLAY GEOGRAPHY IN WHERE WE REPAIR AND WHERE WE THROW AWAY AND WHERE WE KEEP IT'S COMPLICATE THINGS. I'VE GOT A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR OF THAT MOTION? AYE. AYE. AYE AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED TO THAT MOTION? ANY ABSTENTIONS TO THE MOTION? OKAY. THAT MOTION CARRIES. CAN I HAVE A POINT OF ORDER, ROMAN, THAT WE ALWAYS HAVE A INVENTORY AND CURRENT PHOTO. THANK YOU. WE'LL HAVE TO WORK THAT ON THE NEW. OKAY, NOW WE'RE MOVING ON TO ITEM SEVEN. 1 1 3 8 FUGATE STREET 1 1 3. YOU NEED, COME ON. SORRY, I WAS JUST TRYING TO PULL IT UP FOR YOU. LET ME ASK ROMAN, ROMAN, UM, I, I'M NOT SURE WHICH ITEM YOU WERE TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT KIM WAS HERE FOR. UM, IT WOULD BE THIS ITEM. UH, IF, IF WE COULD TAKE THE NEXT ONE, THAT MIGHT BE BENEFICIAL JUST TO, OKAY. IS THERE A MOTION I'LL MOVE TO MOVE ITEM 10 IN FRONT OF ITEM SEVEN. I'LL CHECK OUT. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. COMMISSIONERS ITEM 10 IS, UH, 1215 ASHLAND STREET. THIS IS AN ADDITION ON A CONTRIBUTING BUNGALOW AND THE HOUSTON HEIGHTS WEST DISTRICT CIRCA 1940. AND IT'S A TWO STORY REAR ADDITION. UH, THE PROPOSED SQUARE FOOT ADDITION IS 1000, UH, 936. THE, UH, BUILDING WOULD BE CLOUDED WITH SMOOTH CEMENTITIOUS SIDING, MAXIMUM RIDGE HEIGHT OF 27 FEET, 11 INCHES. AND WE'RE WE STAFF IN THIS CASE IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL IF WE COULD GO FORWARD TO THE INVENTORY PHOTO IN THIS CASE. UH, ON PAGE FOUR, WE CAN SEE THE BUNGALOW THERE. LITTLE HOUSE LATE IN THE PERIOD. AND THEN THE NEXT PICTURES ARE SOME CONTEMPORARY PICTURES OF IT. I SAY LATE IN THE PERIOD. THIS IS ONE OF THOSE HOUSES THAT HAS A TYP, KIND OF A LOWER FLOOR PLATE THAN WE'RE GONNA NORMALLY SEE IN THE HEIGHTS. UM, DIFFERENT MATERIALS AS WELL. UM, THE NEXT PAGE WE HAVE, UH, SOME THE SANBORN IMAGES AND THE MAIN DRAWINGS. WE WANNA GET TO BEGIN ON PAGE NINE OF 17 OF THAT PDF. AND WE HAVE A PROPOSED TWO STORY REAR EDITION THAT IS, UH, INSET TWO FEET AND GOES BACK SIX. UM, AND IT IS BACKED OFF OF THE PEAK OF THE BACK HIP. AND, UH, THE NEXT IMAGE ON 10 TO 17, YOU CAN SEE HOW IT LINES UP. UH, IT LOOKS LIKE SOMETHING GOT CLIPPED ON 11 TO 17, BUT THERE'S THE PROPOSED FRONT ELEVATION RIGHT THERE. AND THEN THE NEXT PAGE HAS THE PROPOSED LEFT ELEVATION, AND THEN THE RIGHT AND THEN THE, THE, THE CRITERIA OF THE MEASURABLE STANDARDS, ET CETERA. THEY'RE ALL MET AND THE WINDOWS WOULD BE IN SET AND RECESSED. AND I'LL TAKE ANY QUESTIONS. WE RECOMMENDING APPROVAL. OKAY. LET ME JUST FIRST OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. I DON'T HAVE ANY SPEAKERS SIGNED UP, UH, ON MY LIST, BUT OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING IF ANYONE IN THE PUBLIC WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THIS ITEM, PLEASE, UH, APPROACH THE BENCH AND STATE YOUR NAME. THE A UH, THE, UH, THEY DO HAVE AN AGENT AND OWNER HERE IF YOU WANT TO SPEAK TO IT. THEY'RE HERE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS IF YOU'LL, OKAY. YEAH. BUT IS THERE ANYONE ELSE IN THE PUBLIC THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM? PLEASE ANNOUNCE YOURSELF [01:45:02] HEARING, I GUESS. WE'LL, COMMISSIONER WILL TAKE QUESTIONS OF ROMAN. UM, YEAH. UH, MR. CHAIR, I ACTUALLY PULLED THIS ITEM OUT BECAUSE, UH, ONE OF THE ITEMS IN THE PROPOSAL, UH, IN, I WANT TO CLARIFY. UH, IT SAYS THERE, CHANGE THE FRONT PORCH FROM THE EXISTING TWOFOLD ROD IRON COLUMNS TO A SINGLE SQUARE WOOD COLUMN. UH, ASSUMING IT'S JUST A STANDARD FOUR BY FOUR GOING UP TO THE, UH, THE LITTLE, UH, GABLE ROOF. WELL, IT'S ACTUALLY, YES, BUT MY QUESTION IS, UH, IN, IF YOU LOOK AT THE STREET, THE, UH, ADJACENT HOUSES AND ONE OPPOSITE, IS IT, ARE THOSE ALSO JUST SIMPLE FOUR BY FOURS OR THEY ARE ACTUALLY BRICK WITH SOME TAPERED COLUMNS? AND THEN WHY SHOULDN'T THAT BE THE, THE STANDARD TO GO IF ALL THE OTHER HOUSES AROUND IT, UH, BRICKED WITH, WITH TAPERED COLUMNS? UM, AND I, SO I APOLOGIZE, I DON'T SEE THE CONTEXT PHOTOS OF THIS ACT HOUSE IS ACTUALLY ON EITHER SIDE, RIGHT AND LEFT HAS A NEW NON-CONTRIBUTING KIND OF TALLER HOMES AND ACROSS THE STREET AS WELL. I THINK YOU, IF YOU, EARLIER IN THE 20TH CENTURIES WHERE YOU HAD THAT BRICK BASE AND THEN THE TAPERED COLUMN. YES. THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE THINKING. THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO, IS I'M TRYING TO DETERMINE, I'M NOT SAYING I'M DICTATING THAT. YEAH, I'M SAYING THAT IT SHOULD FOLLOW WHATEVER HISTORIC HOMES THAT ARE EITHER ON, ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE STREET OR OPPOSITE THAT STREET. RIGHT. IT SHOULD NOT BE JUST A, A STANDARD. OKAY. REPLACE IT WITH A FOUR BY FOUR. WELL, I THINK WE SHOULD DO SOMETHING MORE SIMPLE IF WE DON'T KNOW THAT IT HAD THAT CRAFTSMAN STYLE PORCH POSE. 'CAUSE THIS IS BUILT IN 1940, WHICH IS PRETTY LATE FOR THIS BUNGALOW TYPE HOUSE. SO WE DON'T KNOW WHAT KIND OF POST IT WOULD'VE HAD. SO I THINK WE SHOULD BE CONSERVATIVE AND DO A VERY SIMPLE ONE. WELL, IF THAT'S THE CASE, THEN I WOULD LIKE TO BE SHOWN EVIDENCE THAT THERE, OR BE TOLD THAT THERE ARE NO, BECAUSE IT WAS BUILT IN 1940, MORE LIKELY THAN NOT, THEY HAVE PHOTOS UNLIKE 1895 HOMES. YOU KNOW, DID THEY HAVE PHOTOS? ROMAN? UH, YOU MEAN OF I DON'T HAVE PHOTOS OF THIS PARTICULAR HOUSE, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? YEAH, NO, WHATEVER WE HAVE, THERE'S NO, LIKE HERE IS COUNTY PHOTO OR ANYTHING LIKE LOOK AT THE TAX ASSESSMENT. YEAH, ALL WE HAVE IS ON PAGE EIGHT. IT WILL JUST GIVE YOU A LITTLE FLOOR PLAN. UM, YOU KNOW, I STRUGGLED WITH WHETHER THOSE FAKE WR OR FAUX WROUGHT IRON COLUMNS ARE, UM, ORIGINAL AND THE CONCRETE PORCH. I I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE AT 1940 WHAT YOU WOULD BE DOING. I, IT DIDN'T SEEM INAPPROPRIATE, UH, IN, IN MY MIND TO JUST HAVE THAT ONE COLUMN THAT WHICH THEY HAVE DRAWN IN THE DRAWING THAT IS DRAWN AS JUST A POST. UM, I I, I'M, I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER COUCH. I THINK THAT THIS HOME TYPICALLY DOESN'T HAVE THAT BRICK PEDESTAL WITH THE TAPERED COLUMN ON TOP THAT WE SEE LATER. MR. , YOU HAVE A COMMENT? SO NOT ABOUT THE COLUMN. UM, I HAVE SOME RESERVATIONS ABOUT THE PROJECT BASED ON THE SCALE OF THE ADDITION. SO I'M LOOKING AT IT AND I'M SEEING AN EIGHT FOOT PLATE HEIGHT IN THE ORIGINAL HOUSE, AND THEN A 10 FOOT PLATE HEIGHT ON THE FIRST FLOOR OF THE ADDITION AND A NINE FOOT PLATE HEIGHT ON THE SECOND FLOOR OF THE ADDITION. AND TO ME, THAT IS CREATING AN ADDITION THAT IS VERY MUCH OUTTA SCALE WITH THE ORIGINAL HOUSE. AND SO I BELIEVE THAT THOSE PLATE HEIGHTS SHOULD BE REDUCED TO BRING THE MASS OF THE ADDITION DOWN. AND THOSE MEASUREMENTS CAN, I THINK IT'S PAGE 25. WELL, WE LOOKED AT, WHEN WE FIRST SAW THIS PROJECT, THE APPLICANT, UM, THE, WHEN WE SAW THE ADDITION, THE APPLICANT WAS NOT, UH, DOING ANY CHANGE AT ALL TO THE CURRENT HOUSE. AND WE ASKED THEM TO, TO COME BACK AND LIFT THE HOUSE BY A BLOCK TO GET IT UP IN HEIGHT AND TO, IT SEEMED TO US THAT THAT DID SOMETHING TO HELP WITH THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE TWO BUILDINGS. WE CERTAINLY SEE WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO. AND ONE THING HERE IS AGAIN, THE CONTEXT AREA, WHICH I APOLOGIZE THAT I DIDN'T, UH, GET THE PHOTOS IN, BUT, AND MAYBE WE CAN DO A GOOGLE STREET VIEW OF, OF THAT IF YOU GET A CHANCE. THERE'S A, UM, THE ADJACENT PROPERTIES ARE REALLY TALL. THEY'RE NEW BUILDINGS THAT ARE MADE TO LOOK OLD, BUT THEY'RE BIG. AND THIS LITTLE, LITTLE BUNGALOW IS KIND OF TRAPPED, IF YOU WILL, BETWEEN 'EM. SO FOR THAT WAS ALSO TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION IN THE, IN THE RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL IN THIS CASE. I MEAN, THERE'S CERTAINLY WAYS TO MAKE THE ROOF, THE CEILING HEIGHT ON THE SECOND FLOOR HIGHER WITH A LOWER PLATE. I MEAN, WE'VE ASKED PEOPLE TO DO THAT MULTIPLE TIMES, BUT I, I'LL STAND BY IT. I THINK THAT THE PLATE HEIGHTS ARE TOO HIGH [01:50:01] IN THE ADDITION AND IT'S, IT'S CREATING AN IMBALANCE IN THE DESIGN. I, I, I AGREE. SECOND THAT AND I, I'M JUST, YES, IT CHECKS ALL THE BOXES, UM, FOR MINIMUM STANDARDS. BUT, UM, THIS ADDITION IS MORE THAN PLENTY OF, THAN THE REGULAR ONE, THE SIZE OF THE ORIGINAL ONE. IT IS MORE THAN TWICE THE SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT'S BEING ADDED TO THE BACK OF THIS VERY SIMPLE BUNGALOW. YEAH. AND COMMISSIONER STAAVA, I'D LIKE TO ADD, UH, TO THE, I'M GONNA POINT OUT THAT THE, UH, THE, THE ORIGINAL HOUSE, UH, THE ROOF IS, UH, ALMOST COVERING, COVERING THE WINDOWS THEY KIND OF SLOPE DOWN, BUT WITH THE ADDITION, THERE'S BEEN, THERE'S A LOT OF SPACE THAT ARE ABOVE THE WINDOWS. SO THAT'S A BIG DIFFERENCE. WHAT, THAT'S WHAT I'M STRUGGLING WITH. MM-HMM . IS THAT MAKING SENSE? MM-HMM . YEAH. 'CAUSE THE, THE PLATE HEIGHT IS TOO HIGH. MM-HMM . WELL, I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THE APPLICANT'S HERE, IF WE WANNA PROPOSE, UH, TO SPEAK TO THEM ABOUT ACCEPTING A A UNDER CONDITION THERE, I THINK WE CAN WORK THIS OUT. I MEAN, YOU, THAT WOULD BE UP TO THE APPLICANT IF THEY WANT TO APPROACH THE YEAH. MEAN PUBLIC, THE PUB PUBLIC HEARING STILL OPEN. SO WE, WE, MR. CROCKER, IF YOU COULD ASK THE APPLICANT, I TOFE IF YOU HAVE TO STATE YOUR NAME YEAH. AND THEN . GOOD AFTERNOON. GOOD AFTERNOON. IT'S BEEN A LONG AFTERNOON. I KNOW. HI, COULD, COULD YOU STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD? YES, SIR. MY NAME IS TOFI CLABBY HONEYCOMB CONTRACTING. I'M THE BUILDER. I'VE BEEN HERE MANY TIMES BEFORE. UM, SO WE DID AGREE FROM THE FIRST DRAFT TO THE SECOND DRAFT THAT WE CAME BACK WITH. THIS WAS JUST, UM, A COUPLE WEEKS AGO. AND WE DID SEE THE MASSING BE A LITTLE BIT WEIRD. AND SO WE DID AGREE TO RAISE THE ORIGINAL HOUSE. UM, AND SO THE SCALING, THE MASSING WOULDN'T LOOK TOO SEVERE WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE ORIGINAL HOME WITH THE ADDITION IN THE BACK. UM, AGAIN, IF THERE'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO DO OR ADJUST CONDITIONALLY TODAY, WE'RE ABSOLUTELY HAPPY TO DO THAT. UM, WE DID FOLLOW ALL THE GUIDELINES AS WE DO IN ALL THE HOMES THAT WE BUILD DOWN TO THE TI MEAN, WE TRY NOT TO LEAVE ANYTHING TO QUESTION. OF COURSE IT COMES TO THIS. UM, AND WE HAVE TO BE READY FOR ANYTHING ELSE THAT WE CAN DO. SO I, I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING. I MEAN, I, THE ISSUE I'M HAVING WITH IT IS THAT IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER YOU RAISE THE, THE ORIGINAL HOUSE UP, IT'S STILL THE SAME PLANE WITH THE ADDITION. SO YOU'RE THE PROPORTION BETWEEN THE NEW, THE NEW PART AND THE OLD PART IS THE SAME. THE ISSUE I'M HAVING IS WITH THE PLATE HEIGHTS IN THE, IN THE ADDITION BEING, YOU KNOW, TWO FEET TALLER THAN THE, THE ORIGINAL HOUSE ON THE FIRST FLOOR, AND THEN A NINE FOOT PLATE PLATE HEIGHT ON TOP OF THAT IS JUST, IT'S CREATING THIS HEIGHT THAT IS THE OVERPOWERING, THE HISTORIC, THE, THE ADDITION SHOULD BE SUBSERVIENT TO THE ORIGINAL HOUSE. AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS HOUSE IS SMALL AND WE DID DO A PROJECT WITH A VERY SMALL HOUSE SIMILAR TO THIS ON, UM, CORTLAND IN THE 1500 BLOCK. AND THE ADDITION IS, IS IS MOSTLY BUILT AT THIS POINT. AND THEY DID A GOOD JOB BY KEEPING IT A LITTLE BIT LOWER SO THAT IT, YOU KNOW, KEPT THE PROPORTION MORE BALANCED. SO THAT, THAT WOULD BE MY, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU GO ABOUT THAT. I'M NOT AN ARCHITECT, SO I CAN DEFER TO . WELL, DO YOU THINK WE COULD ASK HIM TO LOWER UP BY A SPECIFIC DISTANCE, LIKE ONE FOOT ON EACH FLOOR OR SOMETHING? SIX INCHES? YEAH. I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT WOULD DO NINE AND NINE. IT'S HARD FOR ME. I THINK WE NEED TO, WE, WE, THIS TOUCHY FEELY STUFF IS LIKE NOT VERY CONSTRUCTIVE AND THEY WANT, I THINK I HAVE A SUGGESTION OR AN ANSWER FOR SOMETHING AND WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO TELL 'EM, DO THIS AND THEY COME BACK AND THEY'VE DONE IT AND THEN WE, WE CAN SAY, YES, YOU'VE DONE WHAT WE'VE ASKED YOU TO DO. AND THEN LIKE GIVE 'EM A SPECIFIC DISTANCE TO LOWER IT. YEAH. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A CONTRIBUTION IF I MAY. UH, CAN YOU PULL UP PAGE 11, LOOK AT CORRESPONDING TO TWO FEET. SO THE LITTLE BRACKET ELEMENT, [01:55:02] THIS ELEMENT HERE IS ON THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THIS, THIS, AND THIS HAS A CERTAIN CHARACTER AND YOU'LL, IT'S COMPLETELY DIFFERENT IN THE EFFORT. SO MAKING THOSE EQUIVALENT, I THINK IT WOULD'VE BEEN A GREAT IDEA. THINK IT'S MORE SIMILAR, MAY HELP TO MAKE THE ADDITION LOOK LIKE IT'S SORT OF IN THE SAME ARCHITECTURAL LANGUAGE AS THE ORIGINAL. I I, I WISH WE COULD PULL UP THE ORIGINAL DRAFT THAT WE HAVE AND THIS ONE. SO I, I DO AGREE THAT PROPORTIONALLY THIS LOOKS A LOT BETTER THAN WHAT WE HAD ORIGINALLY ON THE FIRST DRAFT. I THINK IT KIND OF BOTHERED ME A LITTLE BIT. AND UM, THIS HOUSE SITS EXTREMELY LOW RELATIVE TO THE CONTEXT AREA. SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE HOUSE RIGHT NEXT TO IT, IT IS, I THINK IT'S, IT STARTS AT EIGHT FEET. IT IS EXTREMELY LARGE. SAME THING WITH THE HOUSE RIGHT NEXT, RIGHT NEXT. OH, THAT'S NOT THE ONE NEXT TO THE RIGHT IF YOU, THAT'S THE LEFT. WHICH SIDE? THE RIGHT? NO, UH, ON THE SAME, ON THE SAME SIDE AS THE HOUSE. THAT'S THE HOUSE IN THE MIDDLE HOUSE IS RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE. OH YEAH, THAT ONE. YEAH. BUT IT, IT, IT DOESN'T REALLY SHOW IT. I MEAN, YES, YOU CAN SEE IT IS, IT IS CONSIDERABLY TALLER IN THE FRONT. WE WE DID AGREE TO RAISE IT UP. LOOK, WE CAN LOWER THE PLATE HEIGHT IF THAT MAKES YOU, I I THINK THAT WOULD ALSO LOOK GOOD. UM, AND I THINK WE WE'RE OKAY WITH THAT. WOULD YOU HAVE AN APPETITE TO LOWER THE FIRST FLOOR PLATE HEIGHT TO NINE FEET AND THE SECOND FLOOR TO EIGHT FEET? I, I, I MEAN, AND YOU CAN CAPTURE IF YOU DO THE SECOND FLOOR AT EIGHT FEET, I THINK YOU CAN CAPTURE HIGHER CEILINGS. I MEAN, THERE'S A WAY TO, WE WE'VE ADVISED PEOPLE TO DO THAT. YES. BUT I WOULD BE, I WOULD, I THINK THAT THE SCALE WOULD COME DOWN AND IT WOULD LOOK MORE PROPORTIONAL IF, IF YOU WENT WITH THOSE PLATE HEIGHTS. UH, I MEAN IF YOU SEE THIS IS THE HOUSE RIGHT NEXT TO IT. UM, THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS IF WE ACTUALLY RAISE IT TO THIS LEVEL AND THEN PUT THE ADDITION BEHIND IT, IT'S, IT JUST WON'T WORK. THE RIDGE HEIGHT WOULD, WE'RE, WOULD MAKE NO SENSE. WE'RE, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE ORIGINAL PLATE HEIGHT. I KNOW, BUT RAISE LOWERING THE SECOND, THE ADDITION PLATE HEIGHT. I UNDERSTAND FROM NINE FEET FROM THE FIRST SIDE. WE'RE OKAY WITH THAT. OKAY. SO WE DON'T KNOW WHY YOU, I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU JUST SAID ABOUT RAISING. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE CONSIDERING RAISING. MICROPHONE. THANK YOU. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE CONSIDERING RAISING WHEN YOU JUST, THAT LAST STATEMENT YOU JUST MADE CONFUSED. OH. SO WHAT WHAT I'M SAYING IS BECAUSE THE HOUSE RIGHT NOW SITS SO LOW NEXT TO IT, THAT'S, THAT'S AN EXISTING CONDITION THAT WE'RE NOT CONCERNED. I UNDERSTAND. BUT IT, WE, WE, WE RI IT'S DOESN'T MATTER. OKAY. IT'S OKAY. WE GOT IT. I THINK SO. I MAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION WITH THE CONDITION THAT THE PLATE HEIGHTS IN THE ADDITION, THE FIRST FLOOR PLATE HEIGHT BE REDUCED FROM 10 TO NINE FEET AND THE SECOND FLOOR PLATE HEIGHT BE REDUCED FROM NINE TO EIGHT FEET. AND, AND I'D ALSO LIKE TO ADD THAT THE TWO BRACKETS GET TAKEN OFF THE, THE ADDITION FACADE. I WILL ACCEPT YOUR AMENDMENT. THANK YOU. IS THERE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND IT. OKAY. I'M GONNA CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. THANK YOU SO MUCH. ALL IN FAVOR OF THAT MOTION? AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? I'M GONNA OPPOSE IT. NAY CURRY AND, AND YAP. OPPOSE. I STILL HAVE CONCERNS, BUT YOU KNOW, BUT, UH, DEPUTY HAS ALREADY MADE A RECOMMENDATION. SO ANY ABSTENTIONS? SO THAT MOTION, THAT MOTION PASSES. ROMAN, YOU'RE BACK UP. UH, I THINK WE'RE, I THINK WE'RE GOING TO TERRANCE ARE WE, DID WE HERE? YEAH. AND WE'RE GONNA PICK UP I, UH, FUGATE. NOW I SAID ITEM SEVEN. OKAY. SO WE'LL GO BACK TO ITEM SEVEN. 1 1 3 8. FUGATE STREET COMMISSION WILL REMEMBER THIS PROJECT. UH, WE'VE REVIEWED THIS UNDER A DIFFERENT SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES AND TERRANCE IS GONNA LEAD US INTO THE, UM, THIS, THIS CURRENT APPLICATION. YES. GOOD AFTERNOON CHAIRPERSON AND MEMBERS OF THE HAHC. THIS IS STAFF PERSON TERRENCE JACKSON. AND TODAY I SUBMIT TO YOU ITEM A SEVEN AT 1138 WEST FUGATE. A CONTRIBUTING, A CONTRIBUTING HOME LOCATED IN THE NORTH, NORTH HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT BUILT [02:00:01] CIRCA 1925. THE PROPERTY INCLUDES A 1,216 SQUARE FOOT, ONE STORY WOOD FRAME, SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE SITUATED ON A 5,000 SQUARE FOOT CORNER LOT. THE APPLICANT PROPOSES TO DEMOLISH THE EXISTING CONTRIBUTING BUILDING. THE PROPOSED PROJECT SCOPE IS AS FOLLOWS, DEMOLISH THE EXISTING CONTRIBUTING HOME PRESENT THE NEW DESIGN AT A LATER DATE, AT A LATER HHC MEETING. THE HOME SIGNIFICANT. THE HOME WAS SIGNIFICANTLY, EXCUSE ME, THE HOME SIGNIFICANTLY, BUT PARTIALLY COLLAPSED DURING CONSTRUCTION OF THE NEW PREVIOUSLY APPROVED EDITION. DUE TO THE PARTIAL COLLAPSE DURING THE CONSTRUCTION PHASE FOR AN ISSUE, COA, THE BUILDING BECAME A SIGNIFICANT THREAT TO LIFE AND SAFETY. AND I'LL JUST GIVE YOU A TIMELINE OF EVENTS. UM, UM, I'VE BEEN WORKING ON THIS PROJECT SINCE MARCH. UM, THE OWNER AND I ACTUALLY DISCUSSED THEM, UH, CLAIMING ME ON THEIR TAXES, . SO ON MARCH 3RD, 2025, THE COA APPLICATION WAS SUBMITTED ON APRIL 10TH, 2025 H AT THE HHHC MEETING. THE HHC ACTED ON THE COA TO APPROVE WITH CONDITIONS ACCEPTED. THE PROJECT AS SUBMITTED WITH THE CONDITION THAT THE OAKLAND RAPTOR TAILS REMAIN APPLICANT, APPLICANT CAN INSTALL FASCIA BOARD AND A SUITABLE SCRATCH FACE BRICK TO BE INSTALLED AT THE ORIGINAL CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE ON MAY 19TH. UH, THE PROJECT WAS APPEALED. IT WENT TO THE APPEALS BOARD, UM, AND THE HH HPAB ACTED ON THE APPEAL OF THE COA TO REVERSE THE DECISION OF THE HHC WITH CONDITIONS TO ACCEPT THE PROJECT AS SUBMITTED WITH THE CONDITION THAT THE, UM, OPEN WRAP TAILS REMAIN, APPLICANT CAN INSTALL FASCIA BOARD AND ALLOW SIDING TO BE INSTALLED AT THE ORIGINAL CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE VERSUS THE BRICK. ON JUNE 4TH, STAFF RECEIVED A CALL FROM THE OWNER THAT THE BUILDING HAS COLLAPSED. UM, STAFF CONTACTED THE INSPECTOR TO MEET AT THE SITE TO REVIEW THE CONDITION OF THE BUILDING AND TAKE, TAKE A FEW PHOTOS, WHICH YOU SEE IN YOUR PACKET. UM, ON JUNE 16TH, STAFF SPOKE WITH THE INSPECTORS AND STAFF, WAS INFORMED THAT THE BUILDING WAS HA HAZARDOUS AND NEEDED TO COME DOWN AS SOON AS POSSIBLE BECAUSE IT WAS ON THE CORNER LOT. AND STAFF INFORMED THE OWNERS THAT THEY NEEDED TO DO THIS AND SECURE THE SITE WITH THE FENCE AS WELL, WHICH THEY DID. STAFF RECOMMENDS DENIAL OF A COA AND ISSUANCE OF A COR FOR DEMOLITION WITHOUT A PERMIT CHAIR. MEMBERS OF THE HHCI AM AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS. THIS CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION. THANK YOU, TERRANCE. UH, I DO HAVE ONE SPEAKER SIGN UP FOR THIS ITEM. YES, SIR. AND, UM, SO I WANNA FIRST OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING JUST TO GET ANY INPUT I CAN. AND VIRGINIA KELSEY IS SIGNED UP, UH, TO SPEAK ON ITEM HIM. I'M VIRGINIA KELSEY. I'M THE VP OF NOR HILL NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. LET ME SAY WHAT Y'ALL MAY BE THINKING. . AND THAT IS THAT ANYONE THAT KNOWS MUCH ABOUT CONSTRUCTION CAN LOOK AT THESE PHOTOS AND THEY COULD HAVE FORESEEN THAT COLLAPSE. SO THE STRUCTURE WAS INEVITABLE. UM, THERE WAS ALMOST NO BRACING OF THE EXISTING STRUCTURE BEFORE, UH, A LOT OF THE INTERIOR WALLS WERE ALL REMOVED. THE SHIPLAP AND VERY LITTLE STRUCTURE OR BRACING WAS KEPT. I MEAN, I'M SURPRISED IT DIDN'T COLLAPSE SOONER THAN IT COLLAPSED. IT, IT, THERE'S NO APPRECIATION FOR HOW AN OLD HOUSE IS FRAMED. AND THEY HAVE MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT WEATHER CONDITIONS THAT DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS. THIS WAS NEGLIGENCE ON THEIR PART. THE OWNER HAS MADE NUMEROUS FALSE STATEMENTS, UM, ALONG THE WAY, TELLING US THAT THERE WAS NO GRADE BEAMS SUPPORTING THE BRICK. UH, THE NOR HILL NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION PRESIDENT, MYSELF WERE THERE AND TOLD THEM THAT THEY HAD TO SAVE EVERY SINGLE BRICK THAT WAS POSSIBLE. UH, WHEN THEY WERE MOVING THE BRICK, THE BRICK WAS IN BAD SHAPE. UH, INSTEAD THEY GOT RID OF ALL THE BRICKS WITHOUT CONSULTING NOR HILL, AND THEY WANTED TO BLAME THE CITY. UM, THEY HAVE HAD AN ATTORNEY SEND US A LETTER INDICATING THEIR UNWILLINGNESS TO WORK WITH NOR HILL. I WAS NOT AWARE UNTIL LAST WEEK OF THE PROVISION OF 33 DASH 2 0 3. BUT NOW, HAVING REVIEWED THE PROVISION AND TALKING TO THE BOARD, WE CANNOT IMAGINE A BETTER CASE FOR ENFORCING THIS PROVISION. A CLEAR MESSAGE NEEDS TO BE SENT TO [02:05:01] DEVELOPERS THAT THEY CANNOT BE NEGLECTFUL IN THEIR PRACTICES. MOTION TO GRANT THE SPEAKER. TWO MINUTES MORE TIME. SECOND. SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR, NEGLECT. PLEASE PROCEED. IN THEIR PRACTICES BY DESTROYING HISTORIC MATERIAL, THIS OWNER HAS SHOWN NEGLECT OF THE HISTORIC MATERIAL ALL ALONG THE WAY. THE HOUSE WAS IN BAD CONDITION, BUT THEY HAVE DONE NOTHING TO SAVE IT. THAT SAID, THE BOARD IS MIXED AS TO THEIR BEING REQUIRED TO WAIT TWO YEARS TO REBUILD THE HOUSE. AS IT IS, UM, DEEMED UNDER THIS PROVISION OF THE ORDINANCE, IT WOULD SEEM THAT IT MIGHT BE IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD FOR NEW STRUCTURE, LIMITED TO THE SIZE OF THE ORIGINAL HOME TO BE BUILT. THIS PROVISION OF LIMITING WHAT COULD BE BUILT WAS INCLUDED IN THE HISTORIC ORDINANCE TO PREVENT OTHERS FROM USING NEGLECT, NEG NEGLIGENT PRACTICES AS A MEANS OF DEMOLITION. ANY QUESTIONS? THANK YOU. OKAY. UM, I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING IF, UNLESS THERE'S ANYONE ELSE IN THE PUBLIC WHO WANTS TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM THAT'S PRESENT. UM, NOT SEEING ANYONE. I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. ARE THERE ARE MORE QUESTIONS OF TERRANCE? UM, TERRANCE, I UNDERSTAND THAT BECAUSE OF THIS CONDITION, THE CITY, UM, NEEDED TO HAVE THIS TAKEN DOWN 'CAUSE IT WAS A, A SAFETY THREAT FOR THE, IF, IF A CHILD OR SOMETHING WANDERED INTO THAT WORK SITE AND THEY COULD COLLAPSE ON SOMEONE AS WELL. SO THAT, THAT STRUCTURE ITSELF, I BELIEVE IS NO LONGER THE PREP. THE FOUNDATION IS STILL INTACT, BUT EVERYTHING ABOVE THE LEVEL OF THE FOUNDATION HAS BEEN REMOVED FOR PUBLIC SAFETY REASONS. YES. YES. UM, JUST FOR CLARITY AND CONTEXT, UM, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, YES, IT IS JUST A FOUNDATION THAT IS, THAT IS, UH, UPRIGHT RIGHT NOW. UM, BUT BECAUSE THIS PROJECT IS AT THE CORNER OF WEST FUGATE AND STUDIO STUDIO WOOD, UM, WITH STUDIOY WOOD BEING A MAJOR THOROUGHFARE, AND THERE IS, THERE IS CURRENTLY A METRO BUS STOP RIGHT TOWARD THE OUTSIDE OF THAT, UM, ADJACENT TO, TO THE, TO THE HOME, RIGHT AFTER, UH, DISCUSSING IT WITH PETE, UM, YOU KNOW, IT SEEMED THAT THAT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO, TO HAVE IT GO AHEAD AND COME DOWN. I MEAN, IT, OTHERWISE, YOU KNOW, WE JUST DIDN'T WANT TO RUN THE RISK OF KIDS GETTING ON THE SITE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. IT WAS A DANGEROUS SITE. SO, TERRENCE, CAN YOU REPEAT YOUR RECOMMENDATION? JUST SO, UH, MAYBE THERE MAY BE MORE QUESTIONS. YES. THE, OH, WELL, THE RECOMMENDATION IS DENIAL OF A COA AND ISSUANCE OF A COR FOR DEMOLITION WITHOUT A PERMIT. UM, I KNOW THE SPEAKER MENTIONED, UH, SECTION 33 DASH 2 0 3, I BELIEVE IT IS. BUT, UM, THAT'S FOR YOU GUYS TO DISCUSS. STAFF DID NOT, UM, STAFF CANNOT GO DOWN THAT ROUTE. THAT'S, THAT'S TOTALLY UP TO YOU GUYS. BUT RIGHT NOW YOU'RE JUST ASKING FOR A C OF R FOR THE DEMOLITION, WHICH IS EFFECTIVELY ALREADY OCCURRED. YES, SIR. THAT IS CORRECT. BUT IN ORDER TO CLEAR THIS, UM, PHASE OF THE PROJECT, THAT'S REALLY THE ISSUE AT HAND. AND THEN AS FAR AS WHAT HAPPENS NEXT, THAT'S GONNA BE, SO CAN MY FIRST POINT SURE. LET ME JUMP IN. IS THAT THE, IF THIS IS AN APPLICATION FOR DEMOLITION, THE APPLICATION IS INCOMPLETE AND WE SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERING IT AT ALL TODAY. OKAY. THE ORDINANCE GIVES A SET OF INSTRUCTIONS WHEN, WHEN DEMOLITION IS REQUESTED, AND NONE OF THEM ARE IN THIS PACKET, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE THE PLANS THAT THEY PROPOSE FOR THE SITE AND APPRAISAL OF THE PROPERTY. SO, SO THIS IS AN INCOMPLETE APPLICATION. SO WE, WE REQUESTED THAT INFORMATION AND I, I KNOW, CAN I SEE THAT? PLEASE? AND I'M NOT SURE, 'CAUSE THE DIFFERENCE IS THE PUBLIC SAFETY HAZARD. I MEAN, I THINK THE CITY WOULD BE, BUT THEY'RE NOW APPLYING FOR A PERMIT. I MEAN, THEY'RE APPLYING, IT'S A DEMOLITION APPLICATION. THEY, THEY SHOULDN'T BE, I MEAN, THEY CAUSED THE PROPERTY TO COLLAPSE. I MEAN, , I'M, I'M, YEAH, I, I MEAN, I HAVE NO TROUBLE SAYING THAT THIS SHOULD BE AN ILLEGAL DEMOLITION. I MEAN, IT, IT 100% IS THE PICTURES SHOW NO BRACING. I MEAN, THEY'RE DOING A HOUSE ACROSS THE STREET FROM ME RIGHT NOW. AND I TALKED TO SAM GINU 'CAUSE HE HAD THEM DOUBLE BRACE IT WITH LIKE TWO BY SIXES TO MAKE SURE WHEN THEY RAISED IT ONE BLOCK THAT IT DIDN'T FALL DOWN . AND I SEE NONE OF THAT GOING ON IN THE PICTURES THEY PROVIDED. SO, BUT I'M JUST SAYING FROM A APPLICATION STANDPOINT, I DON'T BELIEVE IT TO BE COMPLETE AND WE PROBABLY SHOULDN'T REALLY BE CONSIDERING IT AT ALL. WELL, AGAIN, I JUST WANT TO, AGAIN, I'M GONNA KEEP ASKING QUESTIONS BECAUSE THIS IS NOT A C OF A APPLICATION. THERE'S A DENIAL OF A C OF A FOR DEMOLITION. THAT'S NOT, 'CAUSE WE'RE NOT APPROVING THE DEMOLITION [02:10:02] AS A C OF A, IT'S, IT'S A C OF R BECAUSE OF WHERE THE SITUATION WE'RE IN FOR, RIGHT. FOR LIFE SAFETY. RIGHT. THE, WHAT HAPPENS NEXT IS, UH, AS WAS STATED BY THE SPEAKER, IS BE BECAUSE THIS APPEARS TO BE AN ILLEGAL DEMOLITION AND THERE ARE PROVISIONS IN THE ORDINANCE FOR WHAT CAN OCCUR ON THIS PROPERTY GOING FORWARD. BUT CAN WE, ARE, ARE THOSE, CAN WE CONSIDER FUTURE IN OUR DISCUSSION TODAY? I MEAN, WE DO NOT HAVE, I, I WOULD LOVE TO ASK TERRANCE IF THE APPLICANT HAS SHARED ANY THOUGHTS OR PLANS FOR A FUTURE APPLICATION, BUT IS THAT EVEN IN CONSIDERATION? SO, UM, SO THEY ALREADY HAVE AN APPROVED, UH, COA, WHICH THEY GOT APPROVED THROUGH YOU GUYS PARTIALLY, AND THEN WENT TO, UH, FOR THE ADDITION, LEMME CLARIFY THAT THEY HAVE AN APPROVED COA FOR AN ADDITION, WHICH WAS APPROVED BY YOU GUYS, WHICH THEY APPEALED THE SCRATCH FACE, BRICK, UH, UH, CONDITION. RIGHT. WHICH WAS APPROVED BY, UH, THE APPEALS BOARD TO ALLOW THEM TO IN, TO INSTALL SIDING VERSUS, UM, VERSUS THE SCRATCH FACE BRICK. UM, I HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT THEY ARE CONSIDERING DOING A REDESIGN. UM, BUT THAT COULD BE BASED ON WHAT YOU GUYS DISCUSS. UM, I WANT TO GET BACK TO COMMISSIONER COSGROVE'S COMMENTS. UM, WE HAD A LOT OF DISCUSSIONS, LIKE, BECAUSE THIS IS, THIS IS A BIT OF ANOMALY. AN ANOMALY. I MEAN, WE HAD THEM FILL OUT THE DEMOLITION TRACKING LIST. WE HAD THEM FILL OUT ALL THAT INFORMATION. AND YOU'LL SEE ON PAGE, I GUESS THIS IS 19, UM, BUT IT STARTS, LET'S SEE, THE INFORMATION THEY SUBMITTED STARTED, STARTS ON PAGE 16. UM, THEY, THEY PROVIDED THE COST INFORMATION. THEY DID RESPOND TO SOME OF THOSE QUESTIONS, UM, ABOUT THE APPRAISAL. AND THEY, I, I CAN'T REMEMBER EVERYTHING THAT THEY COMMENTED, BUT ONE OF THE RESPONSES TO THE APPRAISAL WAS, I MEAN, THEY DON'T HAVE ANY INTENTION OF SELLING A PLACE. AND, UM, I THINK IN OUR DISCUSSIONS WE KIND OF DISCUSSED, OKAY, WELL IF IT'S ALREADY BEEN DEMOLISHED, THEN WHAT CAN WE ASK THEM TO APPRAISE? SO, UH, MR. CHECK, CAN I, CAN I JUST INTERJECT HERE? YES, SIR. UH, I, I HAVE A QUESTION. WHEN, UH, I'M STILL UNCLEAR TO ME WHAT, WHAT IS DEMOLISH HERE MEANS? OKAY. UH, I, WHICH IS WHAT I, I'M NOT SURE, AND I WANNA CLARIFY, ARE THE FLOORS STILL THERE? THE ORIGINAL FLOOR STILL THERE, OR IS TOTALLY THE WHOLE THING PLUS THE ADDITION, THE FOUNDATION OF THE ADDITION IS ALL REMOVED. NO, IT'S A TOTALLY CLEAN BLOCK. WHAT'S THERE NOW WHAT, WHAT IS THERE NOW IS THE, UH, EXISTING FOUNDATION AND THE EX AND THE, UH, FLOOR JOIST FOUNDATION AND THE FLOOR, THE FLOOR JOIST AND YES. AND THE YES, THE FLOOR JOISTS. YES. SO, OKAY, SO IF I GO BACK TO, UH, UH, OH, I SAW A PICTURE. SO YOU ARE SAYING THAT THE, UH, ALL THE BRICKS ARE STILL THERE, RIGHT? NO, SIR. BRICKS. THE STRUCTURE. YEAH, THE, THE BRICKS. WELL, WELL, HE JUST SAID THAT THERE IS FLOOR JOISTS, WELL, WELL FLOOR JOISTS, BUT COMMISSIONER YAP. WHEN YOU WERE AWAY, UM, WITH YOUR SURGERY, WE'VE BEEN SEEING THIS PROPERTY FOR A NUMBER OF MEETINGS NOW. AND, UM, THE BRICK FELL OFF. A PORTION OF THE BRICK ON THE SOUTH FELL OFF INTO THE YARD, UH, UH, WHILE THERE WERE SOME CHILDREN WERE PLAYING NEXT TO THE WALL. AND, AND THEN THE APPLICANT PROCEEDED TO REMOVE ALL THE BRICK ON THE HOUSE. NO, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE BRICK WALL. OKAY. I'M TALKING ABOUT THE FOUNDATION BRICKS. ARE THEY STILL THERE? OH, I'M S WHAT? THE PI YOU MEAN THE PIERS? THE PIERS, YES, SIR. YEAH, THE PIERS. YEAH, THE PIERS ARE STILL THERE. THE GIRDERS ARE STILL, THERE'S NO, THE PIERS ARE STILL THERE. SEAL BEAMS ARE THERE. THE FLOOR JOINTS ARE THERE. AND WHAT ABOUT THE FLOORS ON PAGE 14 OF 24? ARE THE ORIGINAL FLOORS STILL THERE? UM, DO YOU KNOW THAT? I AM NOT SURE. UH, SOME OF THEM, SOME OF THEM STILL. 'CAUSE IF THEY'RE GONNA COME BACK WITH SOME KIND OF, UH, A REDO OF THE WHOLE THING, THEN I THINK THEY'RE GONNA REMOVE ALL THE FLOORS TOO, BECAUSE IT'S SITTING ON CEILING. CEILING. WELL, I THINK, I THINK THE ISSUE FOR THE CITY WAS WHAT COULD FALL ON SOMEONE, THE WALLS AND THE CEILING. THAT'S WHAT WAS DEMOLISHED. THE PERHAPS SOME OF THE FLOORS MATERIALS STILL THERE ON THE INSIDE, BUT IT'S MAINLY FLOOR JOISTS. IT, IT WAS NOT STATED, BUT IN ADDITION TO THIS BALLOON FRAMED HOUSE, THERE WAS, THEY WERE STARTING TO ALTER PARTS OF THE BALLOON FRAMED HOUSE TO BE WESTERN FRAMING, WHICH ALSO LOST INTEGRITY OF, OF [02:15:01] THE, THE STRUCTURE. AND IT WAS BRACE AND THERE WAS NO SHORING. UM, ALL OF WHICH YOU WOULD'VE DONE IF YOU WERE TUNING UP AN OLD HOUSE. AND THEY REMOVE THE SHIPLAP ON THE WALLS, WHICH IS STRUCTURAL AND IS REGULATED BY THIS COMMISSION. SO LIKE, THIS COMMISSION DOESN'T ALLOW REMOVAL OF SHIPLAP ON BECAUSE IT'S ACTUALLY, THAT'S YOUR, THAT'S PART OF YOUR REINFORCING. AND THEY ALSO DEMOLISHED THAT. SO, UM, I MEAN, THE HOUSE IS DEMOLISHED. IT APPEARS TO BE AN ILLEGAL DEMOLITION. IT, IT APPEARS TO MEET THE LETTER. AND I GUESS THAT'S WHY I WILL, UH, I I WOULD DEFER TO OUR ATTORNEY, KIM, UM, IN THAT REGARD. AND WHILE THERE WAS A C OF A FOR A HISTORIC HOUSE, THAT C OF A IN MY MIND IS SOMEWHAT, UM, LIKE WHAT MAYBE GOT DEMOLISHED WITH THIS, THIS CA IS NOT EMPLOYED WELL, THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO ASK HIM. COULD THIS PROPERTY OWNER MOVE, MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT COA? YEAH, THAT CAA IS BASED ON THE HOUSE THAT NOW APPARENTLY IS NO LONGER STANDING. SO LEGALLY THEY, THEY HAVE NO STANDING TO PROCEED WITH ANY RECONSTRUCTION ON THE SITE BASED ON THAT COA. YEAH, BUT IS THAT, I THINK THAT'S CORRECT, GIVEN WHAT HAS OCCURRED IN BETWEEN THE ISSUANCE OF THAT COA AND TODAY. OKAY. SO IF WE, IF, IF THAT IS, IF WE ARE RELATIVELY SECURE, THAT CONSTRUCTION OR RECONSTRUCTION COULD NOT BEGIN BASED ON THAT COA AND NOTHING IS BEFORE US TODAY ABOUT ANY FUTURE RECONSTRUCTION OR CONSTRUCTION, THEN WE'RE VOTING ON WELL APPROVING THE DEMOLITION. I THINK THAT I MIGHT IS THAT I WOULD, I WOULD ADD THIS, THAT THIS DOESN'T, THERE'S NOTHING THAT PREVENTS THE APPLICANTS FROM COMING BACK TO YOU WITH A, WOULD YOU REISSUE THE C OF A, IF WE BUILD ON THE SAME FOOTPRINT, THE SAME BASIC STRUCTURE THAT WAS HERE AS I THINK I HEARD LEGAL, AND THEN WE GET TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION ABOUT SECTION, AND THEN YOU HAVE THAT 33 NOT HERE TODAY, ET CETERA. OKAY. BUT IN A LEGAL DEMOLITION, THEY WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO BUILD WHAT WAS PROPOSED IN C OF A. AND THAT'S, THAT'S THE OTHER DISCUSSION THAT WOULD BE, I MEAN, AND I WILL SAY THAT HEIGHT BOULEVARD IS OUR BEST. I BELIEVE MOST OF US WERE INVOLVED IN THAT. CORRECT? I MEAN, AND WE DID IN THAT CASE, ALLOW THEM TO THAT'S RIGHT. KEEP THE STRUCTURE THAT WAS FRAMED IN AFTER THEY DEMOLISHED THE ORIGINAL HOUSE, BUT WE DID NOT ALLOW THEM TO CONSTRUCT THE A DU AND THEN WE LIMITED, I BELIEVE FOR 10 YEARS, I BELIEVE THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN EVEN MORE. YEAH. I MEAN, BUT SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, RIGHT. I MEAN, SO THAT'S GONNA BE AN ISSUE FOR US TO DEAL WITH AT SOME POINT, BUT I WOULD'VE PREFERRED THIS TO BE A COMPLETE APPLICATION WHERE WE COULD, I MEAN, I FEEL LIKE IT'S INCOMPLETE BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR INTENTION IS. AND, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT. I'D INVITE THE COMMISSION TO CONSIDER. ALSO, THERE'S A PROVISION IN THE ORDINANCE FOR EMERGENCY DEMOLITION AND THE BUILDING STANDARDS OFFICIAL CAN GO OUT AND DECLARE THIS BUILDING SUBSTANDARD AND TAKE IT COMPLETELY DOWN TO THE GROUND. UH, SO MR. CHAIR, THAT'S WHERE I GET A HANGUP. OKAY. YOU GUYS ARE LIKE AHEAD OF ME. OKAY. I'M HUNG UP. THE FACT THAT THERE ARE STILL A LOT OF HISTORICAL MATERIAL OKAY. ON THIS HOUSE THAT INCLUDES THE SEAL BEAMS, THE FLOOR JOISTS, AND THE FLOORS, IF THEY ARE STILL THERE. OKAY. WHY AREN'T WE TALKING ABOUT PRESERVING THOSE THINGS RIGHT NOW AS OPPOSED TO SEEING A COMPLETE NEW, UH, UH, I, I THINK A NEW BUILD MY OPINION ON THAT IS BECAUSE IT'S 10% OF WHAT WAS THERE. UM, CAN I, CAN I JUST INTERJECT TO TO, TO THAT, UM, I SPOKE WITH, UM, PETE STOCKTON, I GUESS, UH, LAST WEEK AND MAYBE, MAYBE IT WAS TWO WEEKS AGO, I'M NOT SURE. UM, BUT WE SPOKE ABOUT, UM, WHAT IS REMAINING AND ACCORDING TO, UM, MR. STOCKTON, UM, DEMOLITION MEANS THAT EVERYTHING SHOULD BE GONE. SO, UM, THAT'S GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY MIGHT COME UP IN CONVERSATION LATER AS WELL. UM, SO THE FACT THAT THE FOUNDATION IS STILL THERE RIGHT NOW, UM, DOESN'T NECESSARILY PREVENT THEM FROM GOING TO GET RID OF IT BECAUSE A DEMO NEEDS PULLED. THIS IS C OF R SO WE CAN PUT A CONDITION ON THIS. I WE, WE CAN LIMIT THIS DEMOLITION TO WHAT HAD TO COME OFF FOR PUBLIC SAFETY. AND WE CAN SAY THAT THE ORIGINAL, AT LEAST THE FOUNDATION FOR THE ORIGINAL HOME NEEDS TO REMAIN INTACT. OKAY. I MEAN, I BELIEVE WE CAN, YEAH. I WAS GONNA ASK EARLIER, IF, IF PETE OR SOMEONE FROM HPW OR FROM PERMITTING WAS HERE AND COULD SPEAK TO WHAT THEY WOULD MEAN BY DEMOLITION, UM, I DO THINK IT'S POSSIBLE FOR YOU ALL TO TRY AND PUT A CONDITION ON IT TO PRESERVE WHATEVER IS LEFT THAT CAN BE STORED OFF SITE. UM, BUT I, YEAH, I DON'T KNOW IF, OH, THERE HE IS. AND SO YEAH, HOW [02:20:01] GOOD AFTERNOON THEY WOULD TREAT THAT AFTERNOON, MR. CHAIR COMMISSION MEMBERS. IT'S, IT'S NICE TO BE HERE. MR. STOCKTON, THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE. MR. STOCKTON, WE NEED YOU TO, TO PLEASE ANNOUNCE YOUR, ANNOUNCE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD IN THE MARKETPLACE. OH, HI, MY NAME'S PETE STOCKTON. UM, UH, SO TYPICALLY DEMOLITION MEANS TO, TO, UH, CODE ENFORCEMENT SCRAPE THE LOT AND GRADE IT, UH, BARE DIRT, UM, READY TO GO, UH, SEWER CAPPED, UH, DISCONNECTED. UM, IT IS NOT ALWAYS THE CASE THAT A DEMOLITION MEANS A COMPLETE DEMOLITION. UH, SOMEBODY WANTS TO STAY IN THEIR GARAGE APARTMENT WHILE THEY BUILD THEIR DREAM HOME UP FRONT. UM, UH, THEY DON'T FEEL LIKE, UH, COMMITTING TO BREAKING OUT A SLAB. AND, UH, THEY DECIDE THEY'RE GONNA, UH, JUSTIFY LEAVING IT BY PUTTING UP A BASKETBALL GOAL. UH, YOU, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO THE COMPLETELY DEMOLISHED AND CONDITIONS ON, UH, YOUR APPROVAL, UH, ARE APPROPRIATE. MR. STOCKTON, WHAT'S LEFT ON THE LOT? UM, WE ABOUT SEND THEM A PICTURE. OH, OKAY. UH, THERE'S A PICTURE COMING. UM, Y YOU KNOW, IT'S A WOOD CROSS SPACE FOUNDATION. UH, THERE IS SOME ORIGINAL FLOORING. THERE ARE SOME ORIGINAL STRUCTURAL MEMBERS UNDER THERE. UM, SO WELL, THERE, THERE YOU GO. THAT'S FROM JUNE 25TH. YEAH. THAT, THAT WOULD BE THE PORCH. SO, SO IS THIS SOMETHING THAT LOOKS LIKE WE COULD, SOME, THEY COULD BUILD ON TOP OF THAT, OR DO YOU THINK IT WOULD NEED TO BE TAKEN TO THE GROUND AND STARTING FROM SCRATCH FOR WHATEVER COMES NEXT? YOU, YOU KNOW, UM, I HONESTLY DON'T CONSIDER THE, WHAT, WHAT I'VE SEEN OF THE ORIGINAL FOUNDATION, UH, TO BE, UM, AN ARCHITECTURAL GEM. RIGHT? UM, I THINK THAT, UH, IT, IT DOESN'T MATTER ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. UH, WHETHER, UM, YOU KNOW, THE ORIGINAL IS, UH, SCABBED ONTO AND, AND RETAINED, UM, UH, I, I LOOK AT IT AND I DO NOT ENVISION, UH, UH, UH, THAT AS A STARTING POINT FOR FUTURE WORK. UH, HOWEVER, A STRUCTURAL ENGINEER COULD LOOK AT IT AND WRITE A LETTER AND, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD SCAB ON, UH, A NEW JOIST TO EVERY SINGLE BROKEN OR BAD JOIST THERE AND, UH, LEAVE IT. SO, COMMISSIONER YI HAVE A QUESTION IF I MAY. UM, SORRY. IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S BEEN A, A DEMOLISHING. IT'S, IT LOOKS LIKE SEEMINGLY IT WAS DONE ON PURPOSE, BUT THEY LEFT THE FLOOR THERE. IS THERE A REASON THAT WAS THAT, IS THAT ABLE TO KEEP THAT GRANDFATHERED IN, UH, SO THAT THEY, THAT WAY THEY REMOVED IT ALL, THEY COULD FOLLOW THE CODE, YOU THINK, TO MAKE IT A BIGGER SETBACK OR, YOU KNOW, UM, UH, THAT'S POSSIBLY A CONSIDERATION EXCEPT, UH, SETBACK IS GONNA DEAL WITH, UH, A WALL. UH, MY UNDERSTANDING IS, UH, THAT, UH, AS LONG AS A WALL REMAINS INTACT, THAT GRANDFATHER'S A SETBACK, UH, NOT A FOUNDATION. UM, WELL, WELL, AND I, BUT I THINK THE PROVISIONS MADE IN, IN THE CODE NUMBER OF YEARS AGO. 'CAUSE I REMEMBER THEY'RE SEEING A LOT OF PROJECTS WITH ONE STUD STANDING SAYING, WELL, THERE'S THE WALL STUD AND THEREFORE I CAN MAINTAIN THE SETBACK. AND THEN THE CITY, UM, NOT, NOT IN WITH, NOT IN THE HISTORIC ORDINANCE, BUT IN, JUST IN THE GENERAL, UM, CODE ENFORCEMENT, UM, DEFINE EXISTING WALLS TO BE A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE. AND ONCE YOU REMOVE A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE, IT'S A DEMOLITION. SO THAT KIND OF, YOU, YOU LOSE THAT GREAT GRANDFATHERING I WOULD LIKE TO, UM, IS WHAT, WHAT I RECALL. RIGHT? RIGHT. AND, UH, I, I WOULD LIKE TO, UH, JUST POINT OUT, UH, THE, UH, CODE WORD INTERPRETATION, [02:25:01] B 28, THAT'S IN THE PACKAGE 23. UM, SO THE WAY THAT, UM, THAT'S, UH, THERE, UM, IF YOU COULD, UH, ZOOM IN A LITTLE BIT ON THE CHART IF YOU CAN. UM, THERE'S A LOT OF, UH, UH, CONSIDERATIONS AND WHERE FORS AND, AND, UH, UH, IN, IN, UH, IN, IN MY MIND, IT'S VERY SIMPLE. A DEMOLITION HAS OCCURRED. OKAY? UM, YOU KNOW, WE CAN SAY PARTIAL DEMOLITION OR, OR WHATEVER, BUT YOU KNOW, THIS IS, THIS IS, UM, HOW WE DETERMINE, UH, WHETHER A DEMOLITION HAS OCCURRED AND THE DEFINITION RIGHT UP THERE. UH, D BUILDING, DEMOLITION, RIGHT? WE USE A FORMULA AND, UH, YOU INPUT THE ORIGINAL QUANTITY FOR, UH, SQUARE FOOTAGE, FOR ROOF FOOTAGE, AND FOR, UH, LINEAR FEET OF EXTERIOR WALL. AND THEN YOU COMPARE THAT TO WHAT'S LEFT. AND YOU KNOW, IF THE RATIO COMES OUT HIGHER THAN 1.5, THAT'S DEMOLISHED. SO, UH, IT'S A NEW HOUSE, UH, THAT WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK THERE. WHETHER WE TRY TO KEEP SOME, UH, FOOTINGS AND, UH, SILLS, UH, OR NOT, UH, IS NOT REALLY A, UH, AGAIN, UH, WHAT I SAW, WHAT'S THERE IS OF DUBIOUS, UH, HISTORICAL VALUE, MAYBE, IN MY OPINION, PETE, I THINK I'M WITH YOU ON THIS REGARD. IF, IF THE, IF THE, IF THE COMMISSION DOES NOT PUT LANGUAGE IN THE COR THAT SAYS WE HAVE TO MAINTAIN THE, THE PIERS AND THE SEAL ALL THE WAY UP TO PRESERVE THE FLOORS, THEN I WILL CONSIDER THIS A NEW CONSTRUCTION. AND THE PERSON, WHICH I THINK DID THIS ON PURPOSE, SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO HOLD ONTO THE PREVIOUS SETBACKS, BECAUSE AS A NEW CONSTRUCTION, THE NEW RULES COME IN, SETBACK NOW IS FIVE FEET AND NOT THREE FEET ANYMORE. SO THAT'S HOW I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT PLAY, BECAUSE I DON'T WANT THE PERSON TO JUST KEEP THAT LITTLE BIT AND THEN THEY CAN BUILD OUT TO THAT OLD SETBACK. IF THIS IS A NEW CONSTRUCTION, THEN TEAR EVERYTHING OUT AND BUILD IT AS A NEW BUILDING BECAUSE THEY'RE GONNA GET MORE MONEY OUT OF BUILDING A NEW, BUILD, NEW STRUCTURE AND SELLING IT AGAIN. YY YEAH. AS FAR AS THE FIRE SEPARATION, THREE FEET FROM THE SETBACK. BUT NOW YOU BUILD THIS NEW CONSTRUCTION, IT HAS TO BE FIVE FEET. NOW, UH, DOMINIC, UH, COMMISSIONER YAP. UH, ACTUALLY FOR FIRE SEPARATION, DISTANCE FOR FIRE, SEPARATION DISTANCE, IT CAN BE THREE FEET. UH, PROVIDED THAT YOU BUILD A, A RATED WALL ASSEMBLY, IT, IT'S A ONE HOUR WALL, I THINK Y YEAH, BUT SO, RIGHT, YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE TO PUT, UH, FIRE RATED SHEET ROCK OUT THAT TO GET FEET, RIGHT, THERE ARE PROVISIONS FOR DIFFERENT WAYS TO, TO ACHIEVE THAT RATING, MR. COUCH. OKAY, SO WE'RE BEING ASKED TO SEE, DECIDE IF IT'S A DENIAL OF A COA, AN ISSUE OF A COR FOR DEMOLITION. AND WE'RE NOT, THAT'S IT ASKED TO TALK ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE GONNA DO NEXT, I THINK AT THIS POINT. SO WHY DON'T WE, CAN, CAN WE FOCUS ON, ON THAT AND THEN YOU CAN MAKE A MOTION. YEAH, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION. WE FOLLOW STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION. WELL, LET ME, UH, I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT. COMMISSIONERS, I, I PULLED UP THE ITEM ON HEIGHTS BOULEVARD WHERE THE REPORT THAT RESULTED FROM THAT SIMILAR CIRCUMSTANCE ON HEIGHTS BOULEVARD, BECAUSE I SEEM TO RECALL THAT IT WAS AT THIS STAGE WHERE SOME, WHERE SOMETHING INFLUENCED WHAT HAPPENED IN THE FUTURE, IT THE FRAMER. AND SO THE ANSWER THERE WAS THAT BACK THEN, THE, THIS COMMISSION DENIED THE ISSUANCE OF A C OF A AN, AN ISSUE, A C OF R IN THAT CASE FOR THE APPLICANT TO DECK AND SHEATH THE NEW CONSTRUCTION TO STRUCTURALLY STABILIZE IT. AND I BELIEVE WHAT WAS THAT HAPPENED? BECAUSE THEY HAD, UM, THE NEW FLOOR DECK. BUT, BUT IN THAT CASE, THE OWNER WAS THERE AND THEY WERE LIKE PETITIONING FOR IT. WE DON'T HAVE ANYONE TO SAY WHAT THEY WANNA DO. RIGHT? SO WE'RE, WE DON'T HAVE THAT SITUATION IN THIS CASE. YEAH. OKAY. WELL, BUT I HAVE A, I HAVE A CONCERN. HONOR'S NOT HERE TO SPEAK ABOUT WHAT'S INTENTIONAL. SO, I, I SECOND COMMISSIONER [02:30:01] COUCH'S MOTION, RIGHT? MOTION. I NEED TO MAKE A POINT, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A POINT TO COMMISSIONER COSGROVE'S POINT. IF YOU ISSUE A C OF R, IT TAKES THE PLACE OF A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. AND, UH, I, I FORESEE THEN AN ARGUMENT POSSIBLY BEING MADE, UH, THAT THEN THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE CONSTRAINED BY THE TWO YEAR LIMIT. THAT'S LATER IN THE CODE. I, I DON'T SEE THAT DEMOLITION. THE DEMOLITION CAN MAKE CLEAR ANY COMMENTS AND IN THE MO AND IN THE MOTION, RIGHT? I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, I'M SORRY. NEED COME BACK. NEED TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT THIS SUBJECT, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT HERE TO SPEAK TO TODAY, COULD, WE'RE CLASSIFYING THEY'RE NOT DEMOLITION. WAIT, WAIT. WE GOT TWO THINGS HAPPENING AT ONCE. I'M SORRY. CAN, COULD YOU REPEAT WHAT YOU JUST SAID? I, I WAS GONNA SAY WE CAN MAKE THAT CLEAR IN EITHER IN THE MOTION HERE THAT YOU KNOW THAT TO, TO MAKE IT CLEAR. THIS IS NOT A GET OUT OF JAIL FREE CARD. THIS IS TO DEAL WITH AN IMMEDIATE ISSUE THAT'S ON THE GROUND AND THAT THEY HAVE TO COME BACK WHEN THEY WANT THAT WHEN THEY ARE READY TO, TO RECONSTRUCT. SO, SO THEN DO I NEED TO ADD SOMETHING TO MY MOTION THAT I MADE THAT'S BEEN SECONDED? YOU, YOU CAN SAY WHAT SHE SAID IF YOU WANT. WHAT, WHAT? WE DON'T HAVE TO CALL IT GET OUT WHAT THE LEGAL COUNSEL SAID. I WANT THAT TO BE ADDED TO WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT MAYBE ADD TO YOUR MOTION THAT WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY HAVE TO COME BACK FOR ANY NEW CONSTRUCTION ON THE SITE, THAT THEY HAVE TO COME BACK FOR ANY NEW CONSTRUCTION ON THE SITE. I THINK YOU PROVIDER THEN WHY ARE WE EVEN VOTING ON IT? I MEAN, IF THEY'VE ALREADY ALREADY DEMOLISHED IT, WHAT, WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE WHETHER WE VOTE ON THIS OR NOT? ISN'T THIS A PROCEDURAL THING? LIKE WE HAVE TO ISSUE IT SO THAT WE CAN HAVE IT IN THE SYSTEM. WHAT WE, NOT REALLY WE'RE TRYING, BUT THEY STILL HAVE TO COME BACK WITH A WHOLE NEW PROPOSAL FOR THE SITE. I MEAN, I'M NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT THIS STEP IS THAT WE'RE DOING. THE HOUSE IS NOT THERE. THERE'S NO THREAT TO ANYBODY. THEY SHOULD BE ASKED TO PRESERVE WHAT IS THERE UNTIL THEY COME UP WITH A NEW C OF A FOR WHAT THEY WANT TO DO, KNOWING THAT THEY SHOULDN'T GO BEYOND THE FOOTPRINT OF THE ORIGINAL HOUSE COMMISSIONER COUCH. YOUR RECOMMEND YOUR RECOMMENDATION RIGHT NOW TO THE COR. DOES IT INCLUDE LANGUAGE OF STILL EXISTING HISTORIC MATERIAL THAT'S STILL THERE STANDING OR YOU ARE JUST, YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT IT ANYMORE? WHAT IS YOUR RECOMMENDATION BASED ON WHAT PETE STOCKTON SAID, I DON'T CARE ABOUT IT. YEAH, OKAY. SO THEY CAN COME BACK AND JUST TEAR EVERYTHING OFF. YES, BUT I THINK THEY SHOULD HAVE TO RETAIN THAT UNTIL THEY GET A C OF A SO THAT WE KNOW WHAT FOOTPRINT THE HOUSE SHOULD BE IN. DO YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? LIKE WE HAVE THE DRAWINGS FROM THE ORIGINAL APPLICATION THAT SHOW THAT THERE'S A SITE. I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE DRAWINGS SHOW ON THE COULD. UM, IT'S, IT, THERE'S NO APPLICATION. REMEMBER. I MEAN, I JUST DON'T REMEMBER IF THEY, YOU KNOW HOW DETAILED THEY WERE. RECALL THE ORIGINAL, THEY, THEY HAVE TO HAVE A SITE PLAN TO GET A PERMIT, CONSTRUCTION PERMIT. TERRENCE, YOU WANTED TO ADD SOMETHING? WELL, I WAS JUST GOING, UH, I WAS TALKING TO, UH, THE PRESERVATION OFFICER AND YOU KNOW, IT'S GONNA MAKE A SUGGESTION. I MEAN, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU GUYS WOULD WANT TO DO THIS, BUT MAYBE IT COULD BE DEFERRED UNTIL THEY COME BACK WITH THE NEW CONSTRUCTION. I I WANNA PASS THIS AS AN ILLEGAL DEMOLITION. AND THEN THEY, WE CAN HAVE THE DISCUSSION WHEN AND IF THEY COME BACK TO US ABOUT WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE, WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE, IF THEY CAN PROCEED, IF IT'S AN ILLEGAL DEMOLITION, WHY ARE WE EVEN VOTING ON A C OF R? WHY ARE WE JUST NOT DENYING ROMAN? WHY IS THIS IN FRONT OF US THEN? I MEAN, 'CAUSE I FEEL LIKE WE'RE TELLING THEM IT'S OKAY TO HAVE DEMOLISHED IT BY GIVING THEM A COR. OKAY. WHAT WE REALLY WANT TO SAY IS WE'RE DENYING THE DEMOLITION OF THE HOUSE. THEY DIDN'T DO THE DEMOLITION. THE CITY HOUSTON DEMOLISHED IT BECAUSE IT WAS A NO, THEY DID IT AT THEIR, THEY DID IT ON THEIR DIME. SO I GUESS I FEEL MOTION SHOULD BE, WE'RE DENYING THE DEMOLITION OF THE HOUSE. I THINK A CR COMES WITH IT AUTOMATICALLY BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN OTHER CASES WHERE THEY'VE TAKEN WINDOWS OUT AND STUFF WHEN WE ISSUE A C OF R, EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T YEAH. BUT THEY CAN REPLACE THE WINDOWS. I UNDERSTAND. I THINK MY QUESTION FOR LEGAL COUNSEL TO SIMPLY THIS, I THINK I'M SENSING, AND WE CAN VOTE IF WE ADD THE LANGUAGE THAT THE ILLEGAL DEMOLITION IN WHATEVER MOTION HAS CURRENTLY BEEN SECONDED. BUT IS IS THAT FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, WE NEED TO ADD THAT TO THE LANGUAGE. UM, IF WE APPROVE THE C OF R YEAH. THAT WE RECOGNIZE THIS AS AN ILLEGAL DEMOLITION, YOU CAN DO THAT AND THAT WE ACCEPT THE C OF R, BUT, BUT THAT WE ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT IT IS AN ILLEGAL DEMOLITION RIGHT. OF THE STRUCTURE. AND THEREFORE ALL OPTIONS REMAIN GOING FORWARD. WHENEVER THEY COME BACK. THEY, THEY COULD NEVER REBUILD IT. WHAT HAPPENS IF WE DON'T, IF WE DON'T TAKE ANY ACTION ON IT? I, I THINK PART OF IT TO COMMISSIONER'S COSGROVE, RIGHT? COSGROVE'S QUESTION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS? IS PART OF IT IS PROCEDURAL, YOU KNOW, OUR ORDINANCE CONTEMPLATES THAT IF SOMEONE ACTS WITHOUT A PERMIT OR WHETHER THIS WAS AN ACCIDENT OR NOT, OR YOU KNOW, A A A MISCALCULATION ON THE, YOU KNOW, DURING THE, DURING THE RECONSTRUCTION PROCESS, UM, IF SOMETHING'S NOT DONE IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE C OF A, THEN THEY COME BACK AND ASK FOR THAT. YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S FORGIVENESS OR ADDITIONAL PERMISSION. THIS CLEARS [02:35:01] THE GROUND TO NOT LITERALLY NOT NOT CLEARING THE GROUND. THIS SETS THE PATH FORWARD IS A BETTER WAY TO SAY THAT FOR THEM. THEN COMING BACK FOR A C OF A FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION, YOU'RE NOT RECONSIDERING THIS AND SAYING, WELL, YOU KNOW, WHAT HAPPENED TO THE OLD C OF A, UM, THE, THE ACTION. I THINK ON THE C OF R YOU COULD ADD THE, YOU KNOW, THE MAKE IT CLEAR THEY HAVE TO COME BACK FOR, FOR ANY NEW CONSTRUCTION THAT IT REVOKES THE OLD C OF A. UM, I THINK YOU ADDED ONE OTHER THING AND I, I'M BLANKING ON, I JUST STATED THAT, UM, THAT IT IS A DEMOLITION. THIS IS STILL IS, I MEAN, YEAH, OUR, OUR HEAD BILLING INSPECTOR, I, THE OF THE HAS CLEARLY SHOWN TO US THIS IS A DEMOLITION CORRECT. AND THEREFORE THE REVISIONS OF DEMOLITION ARE NOW INVOKED FOR THIS SAID PROPERTY. CORRECT. SO I JUST THINK IF WE ADD THAT CAVEAT TO THE MOTION, THEN AT LEAST WE HAVE DONE WHAT YOU HAVE ADVISED US CHAIR BUCH. SHOULD WE DECLARE THAT THIS WAS AN ILLEGAL DEMOLITION AND THE MOTION I, I'M, I'M HEARING WHAT WE NEED TO DO THAT. YEAH. UM, THAT'S THE RECOMMENDATION FROM OUR LEGAL COUNSEL. AND THEN, UH, I ALSO LIKE THE LANGUAGE THAT WHAT KIM JUST SAID, THAT A NEW, A NEW CONSTRUCTION HAS TO GO IN THERE AND SO THE, THE OWNERS DON'T COME BACK AND SAID, OKAY, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE CAN USE THE OLD CO UH, THE OLD, BECAUSE THERE WAS EXISTING SOMETHING, SOMETHING THERE. THEREFORE WE WANT TO USE THE OLD NEWS. I IF WE ARE GONNA TEAR THIS DOWN AND ILLEGALLY DID IT, I WANT IT TO BE A NEW CONSTRUCTION AND THEY DON'T GET TAX CREDITS FOR IT ANYMORE, PERIOD AS WELL. YEAH. SO, AND THEN FOLLOW NEW CODES. SO, SO COULD YOU HELP GUIDE ME THROUGH WHAT I NEED TO SAY, BECAUSE NOW I'M, I'M NOT ENTIRELY CERTAIN. SIX IN THIS MOTION SO FAR. MOTION TO APPROVE STAFF RECOMMENDATION. YES. MOTION TO YES. AN ISSUANCE OF A COR FOR THE ILLEGAL DEMOLITION OF THE PROPERTY. THE REVOCATION OF THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED C OF A, ANY NEW CONSTRUCTION HAS TO COME BACK BEFORE THE COMMISSION. THE QUESTION TO COMMISSIONER JACK POINT, I THINK, UM, ANYTHING NEW COMES BACK TO AND MEETS ALL APPLICABLE CODES. DOES THAT WORK? AND I I SAY IT THAT WAY. LET ME TELL YOU JUST IN CASE IF THEY HAVE A VALID ARGUMENT VIS-A-VIS THE BUILDING CODE WITH WHERE SETBACKS ARE MEASURED FROM, THAT'S A BUILDING CODE PERMITTING QUESTION. I THINK NOT THIS, WELL, SOME COMMISSIONS. SO APPLICABLE CODE, THE, THE NEW CONSTRUCTION WOULD NEED TO COMPLY WITH THE ILLEGAL DEMOLITION PROVISION OF THE ORDINANCE. THAT THAT'S, YES. YEAH. I MEAN, OKAY, SO YOUR STATEMENT OF MOTION, THE SETBACKS ARE GONNA BE MORE STRICT THAN THE BUILDING SETBACKS IN GENERAL, BUT DO YOU ACCEPT THAT YOU, YOU ACCEPT THE LANGUAGE AND COMMISSIONER MCNEIL YOU YEP. SECONDS. YOU, YOU SECOND I FULLY AGREE WITH YOUR C BEAUTIFUL . OKAY. AND STAFF HAS THE LANGUAGE. ALL IN FAVOR OF THAT MOTION. AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? SOMEBODY? ANY ABSTENTIONS? OKAY, WE MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM. THANK YOU. LUCKILY THIS MEETING IS ALSO TAPED. I'M SORRY, I GOT MOTION WAS COUCHED AND WHO WAS SECOND? MCNEIL? MC MCNEIL. YEAH. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. MY QUESTION FOR STAFF IS THAT YOU HAVE THE MOTION YES. AS STATED? YES. YEP. LONG AS IT'S RECORDED. WE'RE GOOD. UM, COMMISSIONER, I THINK WE'RE MOVING ON. TITLE 11. YES, CHAIR. WE ARE ITEM A 11 IS TWO 11 UNION STREET IN THE OLD SIXTH WARD HISTORIC DISTRICT. THIS IS A CONTRIBUTING QUEEN ANNE STYLE HOUSE CIRCA 1890. THE PROPOSAL IS AN ALTERATION AS SEEN ON THE COVER PAGE. IT IS FOR A STANDING SEAM METAL ROOF AND ON THE REAR PORTION OF THE HOUSE, A 75 SQUARE FOOT EDITION, A 75 SQUARE FOOT EDITION ON THE REAR OF THE HOUSE. THIS IS A GOOD, UH, DRAWING TO LOOK AT HERE. UM, YOU SEE THE ORIGINAL FORM OF THE HOUSE. SORRY, LET ME WAIT. WE COULD GO BACK UP ONE THERE PLEASE. RIGHT THERE. UM, I WANNA NOTE THIS IS NICE. I HAVE OVERLAID A SANDBORN MAP, UH, WITH THE FLOOR PLAN OF THE EXISTING STRUCTURE. [02:40:01] AND YOU CAN SEE THAT THE ENTIRE REAR PORTION OF THE HOUSE IS NOT ORIGINAL. WHERE IT SAYS BEDROOM ON THE RIGHT REAR OF THE TOP RIGHT CORNER OF THIS IMAGE. THAT'S A VERY, VERY OLD REAR EDITION, BUT IT'S AN ADDITION. IT'S VERY ALMOST, YOU KNOW, IN THAT VERY EARLY IN THE 20TH CENTURY. AND THEN TO THE LEFT OF IT IS A NEWER EDITION. NOW THE PROPOSAL IS GONNA BE TO LINE THE, TO BUMP OUT THE, THE SIDE WALLS ON BOTH OF THOSE SIDES. OUT LEVEL WITH THE, UM, TO THE POINT OF THE EXISTING WALLS. SO EITHER WE HAVE AN INVENTORY PHOTO OF THE HOME AND THEN UH, WE HAVE A YELLOW, IF WE GO DOWN ONE MORE PAGE, THIS IS WHERE I'M SAYING NOW YOU'RE LOOKING BACK DIAGONALLY AT THE RIGHT REAR CORNER. AND, UM, UH, WE DO HAVE SOME GOOD CONDITIONS ON THIS APP. UH, RECOMMENDED APPROVAL IS THAT THEY KEEP THAT, UH, SKIRT BOARD AND CAP AND UH, ALSO AT THE TOP OF THAT WALL, IF WE CAN GO BACK TO THE, DRAW THE YELLOW IMAGE THERE. OOPS, SORRY. NO, THE, THE, THAT IMAGE. THANK YOU. IF WE COULD ZOOM IN THERE. UM, THERE'S ALSO A VERTICAL, A HORIZONTAL TRIM BOARD AT THE TOP OF THE WALL. AND UH, THE APPLICANT WOULD LIKE TO PUT ALL THAT AS WELL BACK. UM, SO THEN IF WE WANNA LOOK AT ANY OTHER SIGNIFICANT DRAWINGS, IF WE COULD GO DOWN. JUST TO REITERATE, THE PROPOSED DESIGN IS, UM, A FLOOR. IT'S A FLOOR PLAN, SEVERAL PAGES DOWN. UM, AND WE GO, LET'S SEE, THERE'S A SHADED ONE. IF YOU CAN GO A LITTLE NEXT PAGE. I THINK IT IS. OH, LET'S SEE. OH, WERE YOU THERE? BUT ROMAN, THEY, THEY WANT TO REBUILD THE REAR ADDITION. GO UP A PAGE OR TWO THERE, MAKE IT WIDER, ALIGN WITH THE ORIGINAL HOME, HAVE A CORNER BOARD TO DIFFERENTIATE WHERE ONE MORE PAGE THERE THAT ONE. AND ZOOM IN ON THE REAR OF THAT. I'M SORRY. SO THEY WANT TO CREATE A, THEY WANNA TAKE DOWN THE CURRENT REAR ADDITION OR ARE THEY GONNA KEEP IT AND THEN REFRAME ONTO IT OR THE, THE PLAN AS I UNDERSTAND IT, IS TO KEEP IT AND REFRAME ONTO IT. OKAY. SO, SO THEY'RE GONNA EXTEND ON THE TWO LEFT AND RIGHT SIDES SO THAT THE ADDITION ALIGNS WITH THE MAIN BODY OF THE HOUSE. THERE'LL BE A CORNER BOARD THAT THE, THE REAR CORNER WILL STILL BE, I GUESS SIGNIFIED BY A CORNER BOARD, RIGHT? YES. YES. AND THE, UM, THE REAR ADDITION IS A SHED ROOF WILL TACKED ONTO TO THE BACK OF THE PRIMARY FORM NONETHELESS? YES. YES. AND NOT, IT WILL NOT EXTEND OVER THE ROOF OF THE HISTORIC HOME. CORRECT. AND I'VE CONFIRMED ALL OF THAT WITH THE APPLICANT WHO'S BEEN VERY FLEXIBLE IN ANY, UH, CHANGES AND HE PLANS TO OCCUPY THE HOUSE AND HE'S VERY GLAD TO OWN IT. OKAY. AND CAN WE, CAN WE MOVE TO THE SIDE ELEVATIONS? SO SIDE ELEVATIONS PLEASE. SO YOU'RE GONNA GO, IT'S VERY HARD TO, LIKE IN THE TOP IMAGE HERE ON THE LEFT IS, IS EXISTING, ALTHOUGH THEY'VE DRAWN THAT AS A TWO OVER TWO WINDOW. AND THOSE ARE ACTUALLY ONE OVER ONE, YOU KNOW, THE LATER PERIOD WOOD WINDOWS. AND THEN AS PROPOSED, HE'S NOT PUTTING WINDOWS IN THAT ELEVATION. AND THAT'S ON THE UPPER RIGHT WHERE THE MOUSE IS THERE. SO ROMAN, ON THE, ON THE REAR ELEVATION THERE DOES APPEAR TO BE A, A, NOT THE ADDITION, BUT THE ORIG THE ELEVATION THERE DOES APPEAR TO BE A WINDOW AND THAT GETS REMOVED ON THE, DIRECTLY ON THE REAR PAGE SEVEN OF EIGHT. IS THAT NOT THE ORIGINAL REAR OF THE HOUSE? I MEAN, IT LOOKS ODDLY PLACED 'CAUSE IT'S RIGHT THERE AT THE CORNER. OH, RIGHT. IT'S ON THE LOWER LEFT CORNER OF THE DRAWING. THE, THERE, THERE ON THE FACING OUTWARD. RIGHT. THERE'S SOME STEPS THERE AND A DOOR THAT, I MEAN THERE'S A DOOR THERE TODAY, BUT YOU CAN SEE THE TRIM ABOVE IT COULD HAVE EITHER IT WAS A TALLER DOOR OR THERE WAS A NO, I'M, I'M REFERRING ABOVE THE GAS METER. THERE'S A WINDOW. OH, RIGHT. THAT UNDER, SORRY, WITH THE NEW ADDITION COMING ALL THE WAY OVER, THAT WINDOW WOULD BE LOST. YES. RIGHT. AND LET'S REPURPOSE, I SUSPECT THAT WINDOW'S NOT ORIGINAL. THAT'S, I MEAN, OR IT WAS MOVED FROM ELSEWHERE ON THE REAR ELEVATION. IT MAY HAVE BEEN MOVED. RIGHT, BUT I MEAN, BEFORE THIS REAR EDITION EVER EXISTED, IT WOULD HAVE OCCURRED MORE OVER CENTERED IN THE WHATEVER ROOM IT WAS IN. AND THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT WAS THEN THE, THE, THE, THE REAR PORCH THAT WAS IN THE SANDBORN MAP. WELL, I WOULD JUST MAKE THE POINT THAT THAT COULD BE REPRINTED THE ORIGINAL TO THE HOUSE, EVEN IF IT'S NOT IN ITS ORIGINAL LOCATION. COULD IT COULD BE, YES. BUT IT'S HISTORIC MATERIAL THAT'S ORIGINAL TO THE HOUSE, BUT IT'S HISTORIC MATERIAL. IT'S ORIGINAL TO THE HOUSE. [02:45:01] COULD WE SEE THE FLOOR PLAN, UH, ENLARGED FLOOR PLAN? COMMISSIONER COUCHES HAS A QUESTION OF THE PROPOSED HOUSE, THE, OF THE PROPOSED FLOOR PLAN. I'M SORRY, IT'S HARD TO HEAR THE PROPOSED FLOOR PLAN. COULD WE JUST LOOK AT THE REAR OF THE FIRST FLOOR PROPOSED PLAN? COMMISSIONER ES OKAY, COMMISSIONER STAAVA. THE REASON I PULLED THIS FROM THE AGENDA, BECAUSE THERE'S NO SETBACK. THE ORIGINAL HOUSE IS PROBABLY TWO OR THREE AND INCHES SMALLER. UM, IT'S FLUSH IT WAS BEST PRACTICE TO UH, NARROW IT, TO BRING IT IN A LITTLE BIT. UM, AND THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE OLDER ONES AND THE NEW ONES. SO THAT WAS THE SUGGESTED GUIDELINES. AND THERE WERE SEVERAL, I HAVE SEVERAL EMAILS FROM, UH, SEVERAL PEOPLE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS SETBACK. AND I WAS APPOINTED AS THE REPRESENTATIVE TO, UH, INFORM THEM, OF, INFORM ME OF THEIR WISHES. SO I'M WONDERING IF YOU, I MEAN, IS THAT BOTH SIDES THAT YOU'RE GONNA BRING IN? I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE COMMISSIONER STAAVA FOR CLARITY. YOU'RE SAYING, ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT THE ORIGINAL CORNERS BEING SLIGHTLY RETAINED BY SETTING IN? I'M NOT QUITE FOLLOWING. I'LL SHOW YOU RIGHT HERE. YEAH, BECAUSE MY QUESTION IS THE USE OF THE WORD SETBACK, IS THAT MEANT TO BE OFFSET? OFFSET? SLIGHTLY, YES. OFFSET. YEAH, BECAUSE, UH, WE, AND THAT'S ENCOURAGED FOR MOST ADDITIONS. I UNDERSTAND. AND, UH, I THINK WE, AND THAT DIFFERENTIATION IS CLEARLY VERY IMPORTANT IN, IN ONE WAY THE RETAINING A SHED ROOF, UH, HELPS IN ONE WAY. UM, I REALLY KIND OF TURN TO THE, TO YOU GUYS THERE, IF THAT'S SUFFICIENT. I MEAN, I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT HOW THAT SHED ROOF THEN TERMINATES INTO THE EXISTING FORM AT THE CORNERS. AND I WAS LOOKING AT THAT AND I DON'T REALLY HAVE A GOOD DETAIL OF IT. AND I DISCUSSED THAT WITH THE OWNER. AND IF SOMEONE HERE HAS SOME INSIGHT ON, ON, ON THAT, I MEAN, IS IT THAT, UH, I SEE COMMISSIONER MCNEIL HAS A COMMENT. I I HAVE THE SAME CONCERN AS, UH, COMMISSIONER STAAVA. I'M CURIOUS WHY YOU'RE NOT, WHY WE'RE NOT MAKING THEM KEEP ALL FOUR ORIGINAL CORNERS ON THE ADDITION INSTEAD OF MAKING IT FLUSH. I MEAN, WE'D SPEND, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S THE HEIGHTS DESIGN GUIDELINES VERSUS THE SIXTH WARD. WHY YOU SAY, OH HEY, JUST BUILD IT FLUSH. I WOULD SAY THAT THE ADDITION'S FINE, BUT YOU NEED TO PRESERVE THE ORIGINAL CORNERS. AND ALL YOU'RE DOING IS YOU'RE JUST TURNING, YOU'RE MAKING AN OUTSIDE MIRE ON YOUR HIP ROOF AND THEN YOU'RE, THEN YOUR, THEN YOUR SHED DIES INTO THE HIP. RIGHT? I MEAN, IT'S REALLY EASY TO DO. I CAN'T EXPLAIN IT, BUT I COULD FRAME IT. I SUPPORT IT. I I'M NOT SAYING THAT'S A, THAT YEAH, WELL, WELL I GUESS I, WELL I'LL JUST SAY THIS OUT LOUD. I MEAN, IT, IT, IT'S WHATEVER THE, YOUR CONSENSUS IS TO MOVE FORWARD. UM, THE OH SIX WARD'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN THE HEIGHTS 'CAUSE IT'S OLDER AND, UM, AND SO A LOT OF THESE OLDER HOMES, SOMETIMES, OR EVEN STRUCTURES, YOU KNOW, OUT IN THE COUNTRY LIKE THIS, MIGHT HAVE AN ADDITION OR MIGHT HAVE A SMALL SHED ROOF. THIS IS A SMALL ADDITION. IT HAS A SHED ROOF THAT DOESN'T EXTEND THE ORIGINAL ROOF. IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE FORM OF THAT PYRAMIDAL ROOF, WHICH IS THANKFUL. SO, UM, AND IN THIS TYPOLOGY, I MEAN I'VE SEEN MANY OLD HOMES WITHIN ADDITIONS LIKE THIS IN, WITHIN THEIR PERIOD OF SIGNIFICANCE THAT WEREN'T OFFSET. I WOULD SAY IT'S BETTER TO OFFSET IT, NO QUESTION. I WOULD SAY IF IT WAS A BIG ADDITION, WE WOULD WANNA OFFSET IT. BUT THIS IS A VERY SMALL ADDITION. IT'S VERY, A VERY LOW, UH, RECESSIVE ROOF. I THINK THERE ARE OPTIONS HERE, BUT IT, AGAIN, IT'S UP TO, YOU KNOW, THIS COMMISSION TO FIND ITS CONSENSUS. BUT I, I WOULD SAY IF YOU HAVE A MOTION, MAKE, MAKE THE MOTION TO YOU. I INTENDED TO MAKE AND LET'S TEST IT OUT. UH, AND THE REASON I BROUGHT THAT UP IS BECAUSE, UH, APPLYING FOR A C OF A, IT WASN'T THE ADDITION WASN'T THERE. THIS WAS ONE OF MY PROJECTS. UH, I WAS ASKED FOR THE OFFSET. SO THAT'S WHY I FEEL, UM, IT SHOULD BE MORE CONSISTENT. I WAS TALKING ABOUT A DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT PROJECT. WOULD, WOULD YOU MAKE A MOTION? AND IT WAS EXACTLY, IT WAS A, IT WAS JUST LIKE THIS, THE PROJECT WAS JUST LIKE THIS. UM, IT WAS ABOUT SEVEN, EIGHT YEARS AGO. SO CC CAN, DOES, DOES COMMISSIONER SALA WANNA MAKE A MOTION? [02:50:02] I MOVED TO APPROVE OF STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS, UM, WITH AN OFFSET. HAVE AN OFFSET OF ABOUT FOUR INCHES ON BOTH SIDES. BE IS THAT, IS THAT CLEAR? THAT GONNA BE AS BIG AS, AS A, AS A TRIM BOARD? I MEAN, I'M, I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND BIGGER THAN THAT, BUT I DON'T, I MEAN, I DON'T CARE WHAT SIZE AS LONG AS THERE'S AN OFFSET, YOU DO IT THE WIDTH OF A ONE BY FOUR, THEN THERE'S NO SIDING ON THE BACK OF THE HOUSE. YEAH, SO YOU CAN DO, YOU, YOU COULD MITER A ONE BY FOUR AND THEN DO CEMENT SIDING ON THE ADDITION AND KEEP THE WOOD SIDING ON THE HOUSE TO DIFFERENTIATE THE NEW AND YOUR CORNER STILL YOUR CORNER BOARD'S, YOUR CORNER BOARD. SO FOUR, THREE AND A HALF, FOUR INCHES WORKS. IT'S GOT ONE BY FOUR OUTSIDE CORNER BOARDS. OKAY. SO THE, THE REASON I UNDERSTAND, SO I HAVE A MOTION AND THAT'S WHY I SUGGESTED ONE, UH, THE FOUR INCHES BECAUSE OF THE TRIM BOARD. UM, SO, OKAY, SO THE, I I WOULD SAY IT'S THE WIDTH OF THE, THE TRIM BOARD IS THE OFFSET. AND I HAVE A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION? AYE AYE AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED TO THE MOTION? AYE, WE OUR JACKSON OPPOSES AND ANY ABSTENTIONS. OKAY, WE'RE MOVING ON TO, SORRY, AGAIN. WHO'S SECOND? NICK NEAL. OKAY. COMMISSIONERS. I GOTTA JUST A POINT ON THAT ITEM IN CASE IT COMES UP FOR ME. THAT'S NOT MUCH ROOM AT ALL TO MOVE IN. BUT SUPPOSING THAT THE APPLICANT THEN ASKS THAT IF HE COULD PUSH THE BACK WALL OUT A LITTLE BIT FURTHER AND SO THAT FORM SLIGHTLY CHANGES. THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING, IF I SAW IT, I'D PROBABLY DO AS AN ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL OR, OR REQUEST ONE. WOULD THAT BE IF, I MEAN, WE'RE NOT IN A DISCUSSION PHASE, BUT YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING. IF HE WAS SAYING, WELL, I'M LOSING A FEW INCHES, DO WE NEED TO AMEND THE MOTION? YOU DON'T NEED TO AMEND IT. I'M JUST ASKING KIND OF A IT'S A FOOT OR SO. YEAH, LIKE SAY HE WANTS TO GO MICROPHONE. I WONDERING IF YOU WERE THINKING ABOUT IT IN TERMS OF MAYBE A, WITHIN A FOOT OF ADDITIONAL BACKSPACE TO LET ME SPEAK. SO, SO COMM TO THE COMMISSIONERS, WHAT I'M SAYING IS IF BY CHANCE THE APPLICANT DECIDES, GOSH, I REALLY WANTED THAT EXTRA LITTLE BIT AND HE THEN ASKS US IF HE CAN PUSH THE NEW BACK WALL OUT, SAY ONE FOOT, WE WOULD NORMALLY DO THAT AS ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL. AND I JUST WANTED TO MAKE PEOPLE AWARE, BUT WE HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A CATCH WITH OLD SIX WARD AND WE DON'T WANT TO OFFEND ANYBODY THERE. WE HAVEN'T GOT DESIGN GUIDELINES YET. SO I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS COMMISSION WOULD SAY, I WOULD SAY IF THE SIZE WE, WE'VE ONLY REMOVED, YOU KNOW, EIGHT INCHES OF SPACE. SO WHATEVER THAT IS, WHATEVER SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT IS, IF YOU WANT TO ADD ON THE BACK, I DON'T THINK THAT MATTERS PERSONALLY. THANK YOU. BUT IF, IF, IF THE SIZE IS LIMITED TO, WHAT WAS THE, THE APPLICATION WAS MADE FOR AN ADDITION OF X AMOUNT OF SQUARE FEET, THAT COULD STILL BE THE CASE PROVIDED THAT THERE'S AT LEAST A FOUR INCH OFFSET ON BOTH REAR CORNERS. BUT IT SEEMS TO ME LIKE THERE'D BE A LOT MORE EFFORT TO PULL THAT WHOLE WALL OUT. 'CAUSE YOU HAVE TO MAKE A WHOLE NEW FOUNDATION UNDER IT. OH, I SEE. YOU JUST GO ON THE SIDES. YOU JUST MAKE A LITTLE SECTION OF FOUNDATION AND YOU HAVE TO CHANGE ALL THE ROOF FRAMING AND EVERYTHING. AND IF YOU KEEP THE WALL WHERE IT IS AND JUST CHANGE THE WINDOWS, YOU CAN KEEP THE ROOF AND EVERYTHING ALL ALONG THE WAY IT IS. AND JUST ADD A LITTLE BIT TO THE RIGHT AND THE LEFT. SO IRRE, I THINK IT WOULD BE HARD FOR HIM. I DON'T THINK HE WOULD WANNA DO THAT. IRRESPECTIVE OF THE EFFORT OF FRAMING, THE PRESERVATION OFFICER IS ASKING IF HE CAN MAKE A CHANGE TO THE MOTION THAT WE JUST PASSED. NO, NOT A CHANGE, SORRY. BUT IT WOULD COME IN A DIFFERENT ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL IF HE WANTS TO GO TO THE EXPENSE OF ADDING EIGHT INCHES. BUT THEN ANY, ANY, ANY APPLICANT THAT WANTED TO DO SOMETHING AFTER WE VOTED HERE AT AT COMMISSION COULD GO TO ROMAN AND SAY, HEY, COULD YOU ADMINISTRATIVELY APPROVE A SMALL CHANGE TO MY PROJECT? I THINK IT'S A BAD PRECEDENT. OKAY. IT'S A GOOD DISCUSSION. AND I ACTUALLY, I JUST REALIZED SOMETHING THAT WOULD ACTUALLY BE A, NOT A VISIBLE CHANGE. SO IF THEY BUILT IT AND ASKED TO DO IT, SO WE WE PROBABLY WON'T SEE IT. TELL TELL'EM TO BUILD IT AND DON'T ASK. YEAH. I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT, UH, COMMISSIONER WHAT WAS ON THE RECORD? YOU EVEN TURNED YOUR MICROPHONE ON COMMISSIONER BLAKELY . I JUST, UM, ALL RIGHT, LET'S GO TO THE NEXT. JUST WANNA MAKE I UNDERSTAND THE PROJECT BECAUSE WHEN I LOOK AT THE DRAWINGS, IT SHOWS A SIMPLE SHED ROOF ON THE BACK. BUT IF I LOOK UP THE HOUSE IN GOOGLE MAPS, IT'S NOT A SIMPLE SHED ROOF. THE ROOF ACTUALLY SEEMS TO GO UP ONTO THE MAIN ROOF, WHICH WOULD HAVE SOME BEARING ON HOW IT GETS REBUILT IF IT GETS ALTERED. YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE EXISTING ROOF IS NOT WHAT'S PORTRAYED IN THE DRAWINGS EXACTLY, APPARENTLY. WELL, IT'S UM, IF WE COULD GO TO THE PHOTOGRAPH, OH, SORRY. I DUNNO. WE, WE HAVE PASSED THE [02:55:01] SITE, WE DON'T HAVE A SITE PLAN. UM, WELL, I MEAN IS THIS, THIS, THIS CONVERSATION IS BASED ON THE ELEVATION CURRENTLY BEING SHOWN ON THE MONITOR, WHICH IS A SHED ROOF. RIGHT. BUT IF YOU LOOK AT GOOGLE MAPS, IT'S NOT A SHED ROOF. IT'S A ROOF THAT GOES UP ONTO THE PRISM, BASICALLY. I DON'T KNOW WHAT, WELL, IT APPEARS TO ME RIGHT AT THE, YEAH, IT'S NOT UNDER THE, THE, IT HAS SOME KIND OF HIP, THE BACK OF THE ROOF. THE ORIGINAL HOUSE HAS A HIP, BUT THIS IS, WELL THE, THE C OF A WOULD BE FOR WHAT IS ACTUALLY IN THE APPLICATION HIGHER UP. SO THE, ACTUALLY THE DESIGN IS WRONG. NO, YOU'RE SAYING THE DESIGN OF THE EXISTING. I'M VERY CONCERNED THAT THE DRAWINGS ARE MISLEADING, WHICH IS WHY WE NEED TO STICK TO THE MOTION AS IT WAS PASSED BECAUSE IT ACTUALLY WORKS AS DRAWN, AS DRAWN AS AS IT EXISTS AS CURRENTLY FRAMED, AS DRAWN. IT WORKS WITH AN INSET, DOESN'T REALLY WORK TO HER POINT. WHEN YOU TRY TO EXPAND IT TO THE WIDTH, WHEN YOU TRY TO EXPAND FULL WIDTH, EXPAND IT TO THE WIDTH, NOW YOU'RE PAST THE HIPS, WHICH THEN MEANS YOU HAVE TO REFRAME THE HIP ROOF. SO I CAN'T IMAGINE HE'S GONNA ASK TO, IF IT NEEDS TO, IT NEEDS TO STAY NARROW AS, AS THE MOTION HAS PASSED. IF HE WANTS TO EXPAND IT, THAT'S A CAN OF WORMS THAT LEGAL NEEDS TO ADDRESS. ALL RIGHT, WE GOT IT. THANK YOU COMMISSIONERS. I DIDN'T MEAN TO SIDETRACK THIS. WE NEED TO MOVE ON. THAT'S REALLY, WE'RE PAST THAT ITEM, SO, OKAY. OKAY. I WE'RE AT, I BELIEVE CHAIR AT ITEM A 12, CORRECT. 4 1 7 HIGHLAND 4 1 7 HIGHLAND IS IN THE WOODLAND HEIGHTS. IT'S A, UH, CONTRIBUTING QUEEN ANNE STYLE RESIDENCE CIRCA 1910. NOW THIS PROPOSAL IS TO RELOCATE THE STRUCTURE 11 FEET, SEVEN INCHES TO THE EAST ON THE LOT AND MAINTAIN THE EXACT SAME F UH, 20 FOOT SETBACK. THEY ALSO PLAN TO RESTORE THE WOOD SIDING THAT'S UNDERNEATH THE CURRENT SYNTHETIC SIDING AND CONSTRUCT A TWO STORY REAR ADDITION WITH AN ATTACHED GARAGE. THE FIRST FLOOR IS ADDITION PART IS 436 SQUARE FEET, AND THE SECOND FLOOR IS 1,463 SQUARE FEET. AND THE GARAGE IS 500 SQUARE FEET. AND THERE'S ALSO A SCREEN PORCH OF 180 SQUARE FEET. THERE'S A MIX OF DOUBLE HUNG AND INSET AND RECESSED WOOD WINDOWS, A RIDGE HIGH OF 27 FEET, COMPOSITION SHINGLES AND A FOUR OVER 12 ROOF PITCH. THEY PLAN TO MATCH THE EXISTING SMOOTH SEMEN, UH, SMOOTH CEDAR. WHAT THEY SEE THINK IS GONNA BE A SMOOTH CEDAR SIDING. THE CLAPPER SIDING WE'RE RECOMMENDING, UH, A APPROVAL, STRAIGHT APPROVAL NOW. AND THE REASON IS WE DID RECEIVE DRAWINGS. SO THIS IS A, THIS IS A WONDERFUL, REALLY UNTOUCHED TALL QUEEN ANNE HAS SEEN IN THE PHOTOS IN YOUR REPORT. AND IN THAT PHOTOS WE HAVE BEFORE US HERE. IF WE GO DOWN TO THE SANBORN, JUST TO NOTE ON PAGE EIGHT OF 21 OF THE REPORT, INTERESTINGLY TO ME, THE, THE SANBORN DRAWING EITHER IS SHOWING A DIFFERENT HOUSE OR THAT WAS THERE, OR THAT HOUSE IN THE SANBORN WAS HIGHLY MODIFIED. UH, OVER TIME IN THIS IMAGE TOO, I JUST POINT OUT THAT THEIR PLAN, THE WHITE BOX OVER THE SATELLITE IMAGE IS A PORTION OF THE HOUSE THAT BY ITS APPEARANCE LOOKS TO BE A NON-ORIGINAL REAR, UH, YOU KNOW, REAR CORNER ADDITION. AND THEY DO PLAN TO REMOVE THAT AND RE-EXPOSE THAT RIGHT REAR CORNER IN ITS ORIGINAL FORM. THE NEXT IMAGE YOU CAN SEE SOME OF THE SIDING THAT'S, UH, UNDERNEATH. AND THEN ON THE NEXT PAGE IS THE SUN, UH, THE FLOOR, THE, UH, SITE PLAN, THE PROPOSED SITE PLAN, UH, AS YOU CAN SEE IN THE TOP IMAGE OF THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT THE HOUSE IS SHIFTING DOWNWARD, UH, AND, UH, THE ADDITIONS TO THE REAR AND A SCREEN PORCH ON THE TOP PORTION, THERE COULD BE SOME CONFLICT BETWEEN SOME OF THESE FLOOR PLANS AND THE FINAL ELEVATIONS, UH, I'LL TELL YOU WHY IN A MINUTE, IF WE'LL GO FORWARD A COUPLE PAGES TO THE FRONT FACADE. YOU CAN SEE HERE THE FRONT PROPOSED FRONT FACADE. AND THEN ON THE NEXT PAGE, UH, I HAD ASKED THE APPLICANT TO PUSH BACK THE ADDITION TO THE LINE THAT DEMARCATES BETWEEN THE INSET REAR PORCH ON THIS CORNER, UH, THE, OF THE ORIGINAL HOUSE. UH, BUT AFTER REVIEWING IT, HE SUBMITTED THESE DRAWINGS TO ME THIS MORNING ACTUALLY THAT YOU'RE SEEING AND WHERE HE HAS PUSHED THAT ENTIRE ADDITION COMPLETELY OFF OF THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE ON THIS ELEVATION. AND SO, UM, THE, WHEN I SAW THAT, THE ONLY THING I THOUGHT TO ASK FOR POSSIBLY IS TO BACK OFF THE POINT [03:00:01] OF THE HIP ROOF IN THE REAR A LITTLE, UH, RATHER THAN CARRY THAT LINE STRAIGHT BACK. BUT FRANKLY, I WAS SO ENTHUSIASTIC THAT HE HAD PUSHED IT BACK SO FAR THAT I, I JUST WANTED TO BRING IT TO YOU TO THE COMMISSION. AND, UH, ON THE NEXT PAGE, YOU, ON THE, YOU HAVE, UH, I THINK IT'S AN EAST ELEVATION. UM, THIS ONE IS, IS A LITTLE HARD TO READ BECAUSE REMEMBER IN PLAN THE SEGMENT BETWEEN THE OLD HOUSE AND THE GARAGE AT THE REAR, THAT'S A BIG INSET THERE. UH, WHERE THAT, THAT LITTLE SMALL HORIZONTAL WINDOW IS, IS TUCKED INTO TO THAT OPENING. ROMAN, CAN YOU WAVE YOUR CURSOR AND WHERE THE INSET OCCURS? YES. CAN YOU, UH, TO YOUR RIGHT, YOU MOVE RIGHT THERE. THAT'S THE INSET. SO IF WE WANT TO GO BACK TO PLAN FOR A MINUTE, I BELIEVE PLAN WAS UP ABOVE, UM, YES. YOU SEE THERE HOW FAR BACK THAT IS. OKAY. AND YOU WERE, BUT EARLIER YOU SUGGESTED YOU HAD A THOUGHT OF PRESERVING THE REAR HIP AND ADDING LIKE HALF A SADDLE IN ORDER TO PUSH WATER OFF, OFF THAT REAR, OFF THE REAR PORTION OF THAT HIP TO MAINTAIN THE FORM OF THAT HIP ROOF AT THE REAR. YES. WHICH WAS AGAIN, SO GOING FORWARD TO PAGE 13 OF 21, ONCE HE BACKED OUT THAT FAR, I THOUGHT, WELL GOODNESS, NOW THAT THE TURN OF THAT HIP POINT HAS A POTENTIAL EXPOSURE, WHICH EVEN, EVEN MORE TO CLARIFY, UH, DEFINES THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE. OKAY. I DON'T HAVE THAT AS A CONDITION. IF THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT THAT, AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE QUESTION WAS ON THIS ONE, BUT I'M HAPPY TO TAKE QUESTIONS. THERE'S CONTACT PHOTOS. CONTACT PHOTOS. I DO, I AND I DO HAVE A SPEAKER ON ONE SPEAKER. OKAY. AND WE HAVE A SPEAKER. WE'VE GOT THE SAN MOR IF WE GO FORWARD AND THEN THE FULL SET OF DRAWINGS. AND I'LL TAKE ANY QUESTIONS. LOOK, OKAY. WELL LET ME OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING FIRST 'CAUSE I DO HAVE A SPEAKER, WHICH IS THE APPLICANT, WHICH IS, UM, MR. NICK ARANCO. YEAH. JUST, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? HE'S HERE FOR QUESTIONS ONLY. HE SAID, WELL, I THINK THERE MAY BE A QUESTION. UM, AND, AND, AND WE MIGHT, WELL, MR. COSCO, WHY DON'T YOU, I, I PULLED IT BECAUSE I HAVE RESERVATIONS ABOUT MOVING THE HOUSE OVER ON THE LOT. THE HOUSE IS IN ITS ORIGINAL SPOT AND IT IS THE CONTEXT WITH WHICH IT STOOD FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS. IT'S THE CONTEXT IN THE DISTRICT AS A WHOLE AND PICKING IT UP AND MOVING IT TO A DIFFERENT LOCATION. I, I CAN'T GET BEHIND THAT. AND THIS, I MEAN, I'VE BEEN ON THE COMMISSION A LONG TIME AND WE HAVE NOT APPROVED PEOPLE TO JUST MOVE A HOUSE JUST BECAUSE THEY WANT TO. I MEAN, WE'VE DONE A FEW WHERE IT'S BEEN NEED NEEDED, BUT, BUT NOT JUST BECAUSE TO ACCOMMODATE THE ADDITION, THE HOUSE, YOU KNOW, IS PART OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND WHERE IT WAS PUT ON THAT LOT IS JUST WHERE IT WAS PUT. AND THAT SHOULD BE MAINTAINED, I THINK. I AGREE AS WELL BECAUSE THERE WAS A PREVIOUS PROJECT, A TWO STORY PROJECT IN THE HEIGHTS WHERE THE GUY WANTED TO MOVE THE HOUSE MORE TO THE MIDDLE BECAUSE HE IS SO HE CAN GET ACCESS OR SOMETHING AND WE STILL DENIED IT. RIGHT. OKAY. THANK YOU. DOES COMMISSIONER STAFF HAVE A QUESTION? NO, HE WAS JUST SAYING I AGREE. SO I, I'D LIKE TO JUST SPEAK TO THAT. WE WALKED THE BLOCK, UH, UM, IT WAS JASON, LILY ANDAL AND I TOGETHER, UH, AND UH, I BELIEVE WE HAD ANOTHER PERSON WITH US. AND IT JUST SEEMED COMPLETELY WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE, THE, UH, RHYTHM OF THE HOMES, THE SPACING OF THE HOMES, THE DRIVEWAY BEING, UM, LEFT OR RIGHT. IT, IT, IT ALTERNATED WITHIN THE DISTRICT AND I BELIEVE THE HOME EVEN DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET. IN FACT, UH, 4 0 8 HIGHLAND, WHICH IS ON PAGE 18 OF 21, UM, IT CAN SEE THAT, UH, I THINK IT'S OH THAT, WAIT A MINUTE. LEMME MAKE SURE THAT'S THE RIGHT ONE. YEAH, THAT'S, I BELIEVE IT'S GONNA BE THE ONE, THE DRIVEWAY WAS SHIFTED TO THE RIGHT ON THAT PROPERTY, BUT IT JUST DIDN'T FEEL, UH, FOR US. I MEAN WE WERE, THE IMPACT ON THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DIDN'T SEEM OVERWHELMING GIVEN THE, GIVEN WALKING THE SPACE AND THEN THE WIDTH OF THIS LOT. EVEN IF YOU LOOK AT THE SANBORN, AND I AGREE HISTORICALLY, THAT IS WHERE IT SAT. UH, AND THAT'S THE NORMAL CRITERIA NOT TO MOVE A HOUSE FOR THE, A BUILDING ON THE NATIONAL REGISTER OF HISTORIC PLACES. BUT WE'RE IN A LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT AND IT JUST DIDN'T SEEM, WE THERE. BUT THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO REASON TO MOVE THE HOUSE. I MEAN, ONLY TO ACCOMMODATE A CHANGE TO THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE IS THE REASON BEHIND MOVING THE HOUSE, WHICH TO ME DOES NOT MEET THE ORDINANCE. I MEAN, WE SHOULDN'T, I MEAN, IN THAT CASE, ANYBODY COULD PICK UP A HOUSE AND MOVE IT ALL OVER THEIR LOT TO ACCOMMODATE WHATEVER. WELL, I DON'T, COMMISSIONER, WE WOULD LOOK AT THE CONTEXT. THIS MOVE IS WE, IT WOULDN'T BE ANY BIGGER. BUT THE HOUSE IS IN IT. IT'S IN ITS CONTEXT. IT'S BEEN THERE. RIGHT. WE CAN'T CHANGE ITS CONTEXT JUST BECAUSE THERE ARE OTHER HOUSES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT MIGHT BE SLIGHTLY POSITIONED SLIGHTLY DIFFERENTLY ON THE LOT. IT, WE KNOW WHERE THIS HOUSE WAS ON THE LOT. WE KNOW THAT THE DRIVEWAY WAS [03:05:01] TO THE LEFT SIDE OF THE HOUSE AND NOW WE'RE TRYING TO MOVE IT OVER AND MOVE THE DRIVEWAY TO THE, TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE HOUSE. I MEAN, THESE ARE BIG CHANGES THAT IMPACT THE DISTRICT. THIS HOUSE, I KNOW IT'S OLD AND IT'S, IT'S GOT ITS ISSUES, BUT IT IS WHERE IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN ON THE SITE. IT WASN'T MOVED TO THE SITE. IT WASN'T MOVED PREVIOUSLY OFF THE SITE. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT DESTROYING THE ENTIRE FOUNDATION, THE WHOLE STRUCTURE OF THE BOTTOM OF THE HOUSE TO MOVE IT 11 FEET OVER. NOTHING IS RETAINED OF THE HISTORICAL VALUE OF THE, UH, OF THAT COMPONENT OF THE HOUSE. AND WE'VE JUST LOST ONE THAT WAS E EXACTLY. THAT WAS, OH, THERE'S NO COMPARISON TO NO, BUT I MEAN THE SAME THING CAN HAPPEN TRYING TO, TO, YEAH. WELL, YEAH, THERE'S, THERE'S NO TELLING THAT THIS, THIS ONE WOULD, THAT WOULD BE SUCCUMB TO A SIMILAR THING. A LEAP OF BEYOND BELIEF. PEOPLE MOVE HOMES SO FREQUENTLY. IT'S, IT'S NOW I WANTED TO ASK THOUGH, IF WE DO LOOK AT THAT, THEN WE GO TO THE CRITERIA AND IF SOMEONE COULD PINPOINT JUST FOR THE RECORD, IF THAT BECOMES THE THING TO THINK ABOUT THE CRITERIA. 'CAUSE WE DO HAVE SPECIFIC CRITERIA FOR THE RELOCATION OF THE LANDMARK. UH, AND SO WE HAD THAT AS ALL SATISFIED. WE MUST HAVE GOTTEN ONE OF THOSE WRONG. SO DO YOU THINK MAYBE WE COULD DEFER THIS ONE AND LET THEM COME BACK? I, I DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE LETTING THEM MOVE IT ON THE PROPERTY. THE HOUSE. I MEAN, CAN THE APPLICANT EXPLAIN WHY? IS IT JUST TO ACCOMMODATE THE SCREEN PORCH? DO THEY NOT LIKE THE DRIVEWAY ON THE, ON THE LEFT SIDE? I MEAN, WHAT IS IT THAT'S, DO IT. YOU BETTER. LEMME KNOW WHEN YOU'RE READY FOR ME . I'M SO, YEAH, WE'RE, WE'RE READY. SO I'M GONNA OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AND IF YOU COULD STATE YOUR FULL NAME AND, AND THE MICROPHONE. MY NAME IS NICK RONCO WITH BUNGALOW REVIVAL. AND THE REASON, PRIMARY REASON WHY WE'RE SUGGESTING TO MOVE THIS HOUSE OVER, 'CAUSE WE'RE NOT THE HOUSE MOVING PEOPLE EITHER. WE LOVE TREES, WE LOVE OLD HOUSES. UM, IS THAT THE RIGHT HAND SIDE OF THE HOUSE NOW IS CURRENTLY THE DRIVEWAY, IF YOU WANNA CALL IT A DRIVEWAY, IT'S WHAT WAS USED AS A DRIVEWAY AND IT'S SUPER, SUPER NARROW AND IT CAN ACCOMMODATE A GARAGE, A TWO CAR GARAGE BEHIND THAT BECAUSE OF THE, THE, THE, WHERE THE HOUSE IS LOCATED, MOVING IT OVER TO THE RIGHT AND PUTTING THE GARAGE ON THE RIGHT TAKES CARE OF THE NEIGHBORS WHO BUILT A TWO STORY GARAGE RIGHT IN THAT SAME SPACE. SO IT KIND OF BLOCKS THAT OFF. SO IT KIND OF GIVES THE CLIENTS SOME PRIVACY AND IT GIVES 'EM MORE YARD BECAUSE THE YARD NOW IS SPLIT IN HALF. AND IF I, IF I, IF I IF DON'T MOVE THE HOUSE AND BUILD A GARAGE ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE, I HAVE A BIG OLD HONKING DRIVEWAY, WHICH IS EITHER GRAVEL OR CEMENT AND THERE'S VERY LITTLE GREEN SPACE. AND SO WE LOVE GREEN SPACE AND SO DO MY CLIENTS AND THEY'RE TRYING TO DO IT FOR THEIR KIDS. AND SO WE DIDN'T FEEL LIKE IT MADE THAT MUCH OF AN IMPACT ON THE HISTORICAL VALUE OF THE HOUSE. SO THAT'S THE REASON WHY WE DID IT. AND WE HAVE DONE THREE SETS OF PLANS ON THIS HOUSE TRYING TO GET IT EXACTLY WHERE, WHERE IT'LL WORK. AND THIS IS WHERE WE LANDED. SO THAT'S IT. I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE MATERIAL THAT'S BEING TAKEN AWAY FROM THE MATERIAL IS ASBESTOS SIDING, I BELIEVE IF I, I THINK IT'S A MINERAL BOARD, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, RIGHT? YEAH. BUT IT'S COVERING THE ORIGINAL SIDING. DO WHAT SEEMS LIKE A THAT YEAH, I MET WITH, UH, A HISTORICAL STAFF MEMBER ON SITE AND IT DETERMINED THAT THAT IS AN ADDITION AND IT'S A REALLY BAD ADDITION. THE ROOF LINES ARE ALL FUNKY AND IT'S BAD. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ON THE EAST SIDE? I, I, I CAN ASK ROMAN, BUT I BELIEVE THAT THEY'RE EXPOSING THREE CORNERS OF THE HOUSE, ONE REAR CORNER WHERE THAT BIG DEEP RECESSED AREA OCCURS. SO, UH, MICROPHONE, MR. COMMISSIONER MCNEIL, YOU'RE, IS YOUR MIC ON THE WEST ELEVATION SHOWS LIKE, YOU KNOW, SO YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT MOST OF WHAT'S BEING TAKEN AWAY AND REPLACED IS AN ADDITION THAT'S NOT ORIGINAL. SORRY, I CAN'T HEAR YOU. YEAH, SO ON THE WEST ELEVATION, THE, THE QUESTION WAS THE ADDITION, THE REAR ADDITION IS BEING REMOVED, THE EXISTING ADDITION THAT'S BEING REMOVED, WHICH WAS DETERMINED BY STAFF TO BE NOT ORIGINAL, NON HISTORIC. OKAY. AND THAT WAS THAT LITTLE WHITE, UH, AREA THAT ROMAN OR WAS MENTIONING EARLIER IN THAT SATELLITE VIEW. MY, MY QUESTION HERE, THERE WAS A QUESTION FROM ROMAN, YOU MOVE THE HOUSE TO THE REAR OF THE HOU OF THE ORIGINAL HOUSE, AND IS IT POSSIBLE TO MAINTAIN THE REAR, UM, HIP ROOF AND HAVING LIKE, LIKE HALF OF A SLIGHTLY LOWER, UH, HALF SADDLE TO PUSH THE WATER LEFT, YOU KNOW, OUTWARD BUT STILL MAINTAIN SORT OF THE, THE, THE, FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY YOU COULD STILL SORT OF PERCEIVE, [03:10:01] UM, THE HIP. LIKE IF YOU LOOK AT THE EXISTING ELEVATION ON THE WEST ELEVATION, THAT LITTLE TRIANGLE THAT'S PART OF THAT REAR ADDITION THAT YOU'RE TAKING OFF, WHAT BASICALLY YOU PUT THAT BACK AS IT'S SHOWN IN THAT DRAWING TO, TO PUSH THE WATER AWAY FROM YOUR ADDITION? YEAH, I MEAN I, WE THINK THAT'S A BETTER WAY TO MOVE THE WATER AWAY, BUT IF YOU DIDN'T MOVE THE HOUSE, I'LL PUT THAT . SO, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I'M OPEN TO THAT. THAT'S NOT A BIG DEAL, JUST AS LONG AS IT CAN KEEP THE WATER OUTTA THE HOUSE. OKAY. ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS TO THE SPEAKER? UH, I JUST, I JUST HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE COMMISSION ACTUALLY, BECAUSE THANK YOU. YOU BEING WORKING THE, I THINK SOME OF YOU HAVE WORKED THIS THING FOR A DECADE OR MORE AND HAVE WE ACTUALLY EVER MOVE THE HOUSE? YES. FOR, FOR AESTHETIC REASONS, BECAUSE THIS IS PURELY AESTHETIC. THERE HAVE BEEN A FEW CASES WHERE HOUSES HAVE BEEN MOVED. I CAN'T, UM, MOVE WITHIN THE LOT. NOT, NO, I MEAN I MOVED WITH, I MEAN WITHIN THE LOT, BUT IT HAD TO DO WITH PARKING. THEY HAD TO DO WITH DRIVEWAYS. IT HAD TO DO WITH, UM, I MEAN IN, I GUESS, UM, IN SOME RARE CASES PEOPLE WANTED TO MOVE THEM FORWARD TO GET MORE ROOM IN THE BACK. YOU KNOW, THIS, THIS IS A CASE WHERE THEY'RE TRYING TO MOVE. UH, BUT IT IS VERY RARE IN MOST OF THE, THE CASES THAT, I MEAN, THERE WAS THE TWO STORY HOUSE, BUT IT WAS SET LIKE AT THE VERY BACK OF THE LOT. LIKE, I MEAN, THERE WAS A CIRCUMSTANCE IN WHICH IT MADE SENSE FOR THAT HOUSE TO BE MOVED FORWARD. MY QUESTION IS, BEFORE PURELY A AESTHETIC REASONS, WE, AND TO MY KNOWLEDGE, WE HAVE NOT APPROVED ANYTHING JUST BECAUSE IT FITS WITH THE DESIGN THAT THEY WANT. IN THE ADDITION WE HAVE, I FEEL THAT THIS IS A DISSERVICE, NUMBER ONE, TO ALL THE APPLICANTS THOUSANDS OF APPLICANTS COA THAT CAME BEFORE US. THAT THEY WOULD'VE LOVED TO MOVE THAT HOUSE BEFORE THEY BUILT ON IT, BUT THEY THOUGHT THEY WEREN'T ALLOWED TO. AND SECONDLY, WE JUST OPENED ANOTHER PRECEDENT, A CAN OF WORMS HERE. NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN COAS WILL COME WITH THE HOUSE BEING MOVED EVERYWHERE BECAUSE THEY ARE ONE STORY LITTLE EDBD HOUSE. BUT IT DOES MEET THE CRITERIA. WELL, CAN I ASK THAT WE PUT THE SITE PLAN UP? THINK THAT'S THE PLAN? SURE. WHICH ONE BASED, WHICH ITEM WOULD YOU OUT BOTH, YOU COULD ARGUE THAT THE STRUCTURE BOTH SIGN BOTH. BOTH, YEAH. OF THE DISTRICT. I DON'T, I THINK THE BEST CASE MIGHT BE STRUCTURE CAN BE MOVED WITHOUT SIGNIFICANT DUNNO THAT OH, I, WE DEFINITELY KNOW THAT. I THINK IT HAS TO DO WITH THE, I MEAN THE REASONS THAT I WAS HEARING WERE MORE OF THE HISTORICAL AND ARCHITECTURAL CHARACTER OF THE STRUCTURE. IT'S TWO C SEEMS TO BE THE ONE THAT, TO THE POINT OF MOVING. AND I, I MEAN IN MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE IN, IN, OF SEEING HOMES MOVED, TYPICALLY WHEN A HOME IS MOVED, I'M TALKING ABOUT CHERRY HOME BUILDERS OR ANY PROFESSIONAL HOME MOVERS. THE HOME ENDS UP, UH, SITUATED ON THAT LOT, ON A MUCH STRONGER, BETTER FOUNDATION. THE PIERS ARE REALLY, IT, IT, IN MY EXPERIENCE, I THINK OF, UH, THE STILLMAN HOUSE DOWN IN BROWNSVILLE THAT WE MOVED FROM CORPUS CHRISTI. IT WAS IN CORPUS CHRISTI ON A RANCH. UH, AND WE MOVED IT ALL THE WAY TO DOWNTOWN BROWNSVILLE, UH, UH, TO ABOUT A FIVE HOUR TRIP. AND WITH A TOW TRUCK, IT'S ACTUALLY PROBABLY 12 HOURS. UM, AND THEN WE SET IT UP ON A NEW FOUNDATION. I MEAN, YOU MOVE, HOUSES ARE MOVED FREQUENTLY. BULLET HOOF HOME WAS HERE. THEIR WHOLE BUSINESS IS MODELED ON MOVING HOMES THAT PEOPLE DON'T WANT ANYMORE. AND THEN PUTTING 'EM ON THE BIG PORCH SIDE, I MEAN, WE CAN, WE CAN GO BACK AND FORTH ON THIS, RIGHT? IT'S ALL SUBJECTIVE, BUT I MEAN, IF, IF THE SPIRIT OF THE ORDINANCE AS TO KEEP HISTORIC MATERIALS WHERE THEY WERE PUT THEN, BUT THAT'S NOT IN THE ARGUE. THAT'S ARGUE NOT IN THE CRITERIA. ARGUE AGAINST THIS COMMISSIONER. THE CRITERIA WOULD BE, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE SPIRIT OF OUR ORDINANCE TO RETAIN HISTORIC MATERIALS IN THE CHARACTER. AND WE'VE NEVER, THERE'S BEEN SEVERAL PROJECTS. I JUST WANT TO ADD, IF I MAY, JUST SOMETHING REALLY QUICK ABOUT HISTORICAL DETAIL. MOST OF THE HOUSES THEY'RE FACING SOUTH, UH, THEY'RE BUILT ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE LOT AND THEY HAVE MORE ROOM ON THE OTHER SIDE FOR WIND AND FROM THE GULF. UH, AND THAT, THAT WAS JUST PART OF ITS HISTORY. AND IF IT WERE TO MOVE OVER, IT TAKES AWAY THAT, UH, THAT HISTORY, THAT ELEMENT. COMMISSIONER COUCH, YOU HAD A COMMENT? I COULDN'T QUITE HEAR THAT. OH, I, I I SAID WE'VE HAD OTHER PROJECTS AND WE'VE NEVER LET THEM MOVE IT. LIKE THEY'VE TRIED TO MOVE LEFT AND RIGHT AND WE HAVEN'T LET 'EM DO IT. IT'S BEEN, THERE'S BEEN AT LEAST TWO OR THREE SINCE I'VE BEEN ON THE COMMISSION. SO I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THIS ONE, LIKE THERE'S NOT, THERE'S ROOM FOR A DRIVEWAY. IT'S NOT LIKE, IT'S LIKE, LIKE IN THE WRONG PLACE. AND THEN WE LISTEN TO THOSE PEOPLE IN COURTLAND PLACE TALK ABOUT ALL THE HISTORIC HOUSES LIKE PURPOSELY PUT INTO THE CENTER OF THE PROPERTY. SO TO SHIFT IT TO ONE SIDE OF THE OTHER, I THINK WOULD [03:15:01] BE AGAINST THIS TYPICAL PATTERNS OF THE LOCATIONS OF THE HOUSES IN, IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD IN PARTICULAR. 'CAUSE WE KNOW THEY'RE ALL IN THE CENTER OF THE PROPERTY, SO THEY DIDN'T THINK ABOUT DRIVEWAYS THE SAME WAY THEY DO NOW. BUT WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO IS MAKE A MOTION TO DEFER THIS AND LET THEM COME BACK WITH SOME OTHER DESIGN THAT DOESN'T SHOW IT BEING MOVED. WELL, UH, THAT'S A MOTION IF THERE'S A SECOND. SECOND. IS THERE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? I ACTUALLY HAVE A QUESTION FOR ROMAN, BUT I WOULD ASK IT NOW BEFORE THE VOTE. OKAY, ROMAN. SO, UH, LOOKING AT PICTURE NUM, UH, PAGE NINE OF 21. OKAY. I JUST NEED SOME VERIFICATION. ONSITE VERIFICATION OF THIS AS WELL. IF, IF THE ORIGINAL PI ARE NOT THE SIMPLE STRAIGHT CINDER BLOCK, LIKE STRAIGHT DOWN, BUT MORE OF THE, YOU KNOW, LIKE, LIKE WAVY PATTERN. I CALL IT RESTATED BRICK. YEAH. OKAY. THAT, THAT IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE THAT'S A VERY UNIQUE FEATURE YEAH. AS WELL. AND THAT SHOULD BE KEPT. YEAH. SO MOVING THE HOUSE OVER 11 FEET, THEN THEY, THEY WILL THROW AWAY ALL THESE OLD CC COMMISSIONER UP. YEAH. DID YOU HEAR WHAT MY MOTION WAS? I KNOW, BUT I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT ON TOP OF THE QUESTION THAT, UH, UH, COMMISSIONER CHANTEL ASKED ABOUT WHAT, WHAT, WHAT ARE WE LOSING? I I THINK WE ALL AGREE THAT THE FOUNDATION'S IMPORTANT TO TRY TO KEEP, IT'S A BIG PART OF THE HOUSE. MM-HMM . AND, AND THAT'S WHAT I THINK THE MOTION IS IN SUPPORT OF, AND I, I WOULD LIKE CLARIFICATION, BUT I, I REALLY DON'T MIND LEARNING NEW THINGS. BUT THE, I THE ONES WE HAVEN'T MOVED IN THE PAST DIDN'T MEET CRITERION E THE, SO WHEN YOU'RE MOVING A HOUSE WHERE THE LOCATION, THE NEW LOCATION DOESN'T FIT WITHIN THE CONTEXT, THAT'S E THAT TAKES CARE OF THAT. BUT WE ACTUALLY HAD TOOK A TAPE MEASURE AND MEASURED THE DISTANCE BETWEEN EVERY HOUSE AND THE LOT LINE UP AND DOWN THIS BLOCK. AND IT WAS NOT AT ALL ANY, AND IT WOULD BE IN NO WAY UNUSUAL FOR THIS HOUSE TO BE SITUATED IN THAT NEW LOCATION. SO ROMAN, YOU KNOW THAT WE DON'T LIKE TO MOVE HOUSES ON THE PROPERTY. SO WHY, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU'RE PUSHING ON THIS. WELL, AND WE HAVE A MOTION THAT WE WANNA VOTE ON. SURE, SURE. THE CRITERIA. LET, LET'S SEE WHAT THE MOTION TO THE, THE PROCESSOR OFFICER, I MEAN WE'VE HAD APPLICATIONS TRYING TO PUSH A HOUSE FORWARD TOWARD THE RIGHT OF WAY TO GET A BIGGER ADDITION BEHIND IT. AND WE'VE NEVER ALLOWED THAT. AND THAT'S, THIS IS A SIDE SHIFT. THAT'S THE NUANCE IS MOST OF THOSE APPLICATIONS THAT WE TURNED DOWN, WE'RE TRYING TO GAIN MORE SPACE IN THE BACK IN ORDER TO MAKE A BIG ADDITION BY PUSHING FORWARD AND, AND PUSHING THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE CLOSER TO THE RIGHT OF WAY THAN HAD EVER BEEN MM-HMM . AND SO WE, THAT FRONT, THE FRONT SETBACK WE'VE ALWAYS MAINTAINED. AND I, I CAN'T RECALL EVER ALLOWING THAT TO OCCUR THAT THAT'S, THAT'S, BUT THAT'S WHERE A LOT OF THE, THE MOVEMENT OR APPLICATIONS FOR MOVEMENT OCCURRED. ALL THE ONES I REMEMBER WHERE THEY WERE TRYING TO MOVE IT TO THE RIGHT OR THE LEFT TO GET A BIGGER SIDE YARD. YEAH. I MEAN THE MOST NOTABLE BEING THE ONE ON COLUMBIA WHERE THEY WANTED THE EXTRA SPACE TO MAINTAIN THE HOUSE. 'CAUSE THEY OWN BOTH OF THEM. OKAY, WELL I'VE GOT A MOTION IN A SECOND, SO I'M GONNA CALL THE VOTE. ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION TO DEFER. AYE AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTIONS? OH, IT'S THAT MOTION PASSES AND WE'LL MOVE ON TO ITEM 15 6 2 5 COURTLAND STREET. ALRIGHT, CLOSING CLOSER. GOOD AFTERNOON CHAIR AND MEMBERS OF THE HHC. ONCE AGAIN, THIS IS STAFF PERSON TERRENCE JACKSON. AND TODAY I SUBMIT TO YOU ITEM A 15 AT 6 25 COURTLAND, A CONTRIBUTING CRAFTSMAN CRAFTMAN STYLE HOME LOCATED IN THE HEIGHTS SOUTH DISTRICT BUILT CIRCUIT 1920. THE PROPERTY INCLUDES A 1,649 SQUARE FOOT, ONE STORY WOOD FRAME SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE SITUATED ON A 10,560 SQUARE FOOT INTERIOR LOT. THE APPLICANT PROPOSES TO CONSTRUCT A SIDE ONE STORY, 382 SQUARE FOOT EDITION, BRINGING A TO TOTAL SQUARE FOOTAGE TO 2034 SQUARE FEET. THE PROPOSED PRO, THE PROPOSED PROJECT SCOPE IS AS FOLLOWS, CONSTRUCT THE ONE STORY 382 SQUARE FOOT EDITION TO THE SIDE OF THE HOME CONSTRUCT. THE ADDITION WITH A 30 INCH FINISH FLOOR HEIGHT CONSTRUCTED TO TO INCLUDE A NINE FOOT, SIX INCH PLATE HEIGHT AND A 12 FOOT MAXIMUM RIDGE AND EVE HEIGHT. THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING TO HAVE THE ADDITION CONSTRUCTED WITH A MODERN FLAT ROOF AND TO [03:20:01] BE CLA AND TO CLAD THE ADDITION WITH A POLY POLYCARBONATE RAIN SCREEN AND GLASS STAFF RECOMMENDS DENIAL, UH, FOR REASONS OF THE PROPOSED ADDITIONS. EXTERIOR FEATURES ARE NOT VISUALLY COMPATIBLE WITH THE EXISTING MATERIALS. THE PROPOSED ADDITION IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH SCALE, MATERIAL, AND CHARACTER OF THE PROPERTY OR PROPERTIES IN THE CONTEXT AREA. THE PROPOSED ADDITION IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH THE DISTANCE TO THE PROPERTY LINE DUE TO THE HOW CLOSE THE ADDITION IS IN RELATION TO THE EXISTING CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES IN THE CONTEXT AREA. CHAIR MEMBERS OF THE HHC, THE AGENT MARK SCHATZ IS AVAILABLE TO IS, UH, HAS SIGNED UP TO SPEAK AND IS AVAILABLE TO SPEAK. AND I AM AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS. THIS CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION. THANK YOU TERRANCE. I'M GONNA, I DO HAVE A SPEAKER SIGN UP AS STATED. I WILL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING, UH, FOR MR. MARK SCHATZ DOCUMENT CAMERA NOW, NOW ON. HI. IF YOU COULD, YOU COULD RESTATE YOUR NAME FOR FOR THE RECORD. YES. MY NAME IS MARK SCHATZ. I'M A PRINCIPAL ARCHITECT WITH M PLUS A ARCHITECTURE STUDIO. WE DO DESIGN BUILD, SO WE BUILD MOST OF OUR PROJECTS. SO WE HAVE THE ILLUSION OF CONTROL AND EXECUTION. WE'VE BEEN HERE BEFORE MANY TIMES, AND THIS TIME IS NO DIFFERENT. I'VE GOT AN ODD BALL FOR YOU TODAY AND I'D LIKE TO TRY TO CONVINCE YOU THAT WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING IS ACTUALLY AN ELEGANT SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM. SO BASICALLY WE'RE ADDING A LITTLE GLASS BOX TO THE SIDE OF A VERY MODEST BUT VERY NICE HOUSE. THIS HOUSE WAS ACTUALLY, ACTUALLY USED AS THE HOUSTON CHRONICLE FEATURE PHOTO FOR THE ORDINANCE BEING PASSED. SO IT'S KIND OF LOCALLY WELL KNOWN AND IT'S GOT A MONSTER HOUSE NEXT TO IT. UH, IT'S BEEN OWNED BY THE CURRENT OWNERS ABOUT 20 YEARS. THEY'VE DONE A REALLY FINE ADDITION TO THE BACK, UH, DONE BY ROOT LAB, WHICH IS WHY THEY'RE LOOKING AT DOING A SIDE ADDITION. THIS LOT IS A TYPICAL, IT IS 80 FEET WIDE AS OPPOSED TO 50 FEET WIDE. SO THEY HAVE A LITTLE LEFTOVER SPACE TO ONE SIDE WHERE THEY'D LIKE TO ADD AN ADDITIONAL PRIMARY SUITE. THE HOUSE IS CURRENTLY A TWO TWO. I HAVE OBVIOUSLY BAYOU BEND UP, UH, BUILT ABOUT THE SAME TIME. SAY, MARK, WHY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT BAYOU BEND? WELL, BAYOU BEND IS PERFECT FOR PRESENTATION, PRESERVATION AND ADAPTATION. SO, YOU KNOW, THE SLEEPING PORCHES ON BAYOU BEN WERE ADDED IN AS GLASS BOX CONTAINERS WHEN THE MFA TOOK IT OVER. AND WHAT'S NICE ABOUT THIS AS A DESIGN STRATEGY IS YOU CAN STILL LOOK THROUGH THE GLASS TO THE ORIGINAL HISTORIC STOP AND BIRD SKULL BUILDING. WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING WITH OUR ADDITION BEING COMPLETELY A LITTLE GLASS BOX ABOUT THE SIZE OF THE AREA THAT WE'RE IN RIGHT NOW IS YOU'LL BE ABLE TO LOOK THROUGH THAT BEDROOM ADDITION TO THE EXISTING HOUSE. WE'RE NOT TAKING OFF ANY OF THE HISTORIC MATERIAL AND WE'RE TUCKING THE RE CONNECTOR ROOF UNDER THE EXISTING EVE LINE. WE DID ANOTHER PROJECT, UH, WITH THE COMMISSION. THIS IS A, AT ARLINGTON A COUPLE BLOCKS AWAY WHERE WE ADDED ONTO THE BACK OF THIS BUILDING A FEW YEARS AGO. IT HAS A SIMILAR SORT OF CHARACTER OF IDEA BEHIND IT WHERE IT'S A VERY DIFFERENT MODERN EDITION, BUT THE MODERN EDITION IN THE INTRODUCTION OF GLASS FIGURE MORE TIME SECONDS. SECONDLY, ALL IN FAVOR, AYE. AYE. OKAY, I'LL MAKE IT QUICK. SO THE ADDITION OF LARGE PANEL GLASS IN THE ADDITION LOOKING INTO THE HISTORIC BLENDS, THESE TWO THINGS TOGETHER. SO I'D EVEN LIKE TO PASS THIS PHOTO AROUND IF YOU GUYS WOULD LIKE TO LOOK AT IT. UM, SO LET ME SHOW YOU. THIS IS THE EXISTING REAR OF THE HOUSE. SO IT'S GOT THIS VERY FINE AND VERY WELL DESIGNED STRUCTURE THAT WAS ADDED ONTO THE REAR. SO THIS IS ALREADY A BLENDED MODERN AND HISTORICAL STYLE. AND THIS IS THE LITTLE SIDE COURT WHERE OUR LITTLE GLASS PRISM WOULD GO. SO THE DESIGN IDEA IS MAKE IT ALL GLASS. YOU LOOK ALL THE WAY THROUGH IT, YOU MAINTAIN THE VIEW OF THE EXISTING HOUSE. THE SCALE IS DOWN LOW, THE CONNECTION POINT IS UNDER THE, UNDER THE EVE LINE, AND THE BUILDING IS SUBSTANTIALLY CONTRASTED TO THE ORIGINAL HOUSE. IT'S A VERY LIGHT, DELICATE BUILDING. WHAT ISN'T GLASS? IT'S A POLYCARBONATE, LUMINOUS SURFACE THAT CONTRASTS DIRECTLY TO THE HEAVIER, UM, BIGGER MASS OF THE ORIGINAL CRAFTSMAN HOME. THAT'S KIND OF MY GENERAL SPIEL. I'D LIKE TO TAKE ANY AND ALL QUESTIONS, NOT THROW 'EM AT ME. , ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS? WE, WE THINK THIS IS A GOOD ONE. UM, AND I'LL, I'LL CLOSE. YOU KNOW, YOU CAN MAKE THE OLD AND THE NEW GO TOGETHER LIKE EVERYONE THINKS THE PYRAMID SHOULD BE THERE, RIGHT? LIKE, YOU CAN'T IMAGINE THE PYRAMID NOT BEING THERE. WE REALIZE THIS IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT OFF THE WALL THING, BUT WE DON'T THINK IT'S INCONGRUOUS. THANK YOU. SO I'VE, I'VE GOT A QUESTION FOR YOU OR, OR A PROBLEM TO SOLVE. YES. SO I LIKE THIS. I THINK IT'S VERY WELL DONE. UM, BUT IT IS IN CONFLICT [03:25:01] WITH OUR ORDINANCE. SO HOW, HOW DO WE GET AROUND THIS? UM, SO I WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH IT AT LIKE A, A POINT BY POINT ON THE ORDINANCE BECAUSE WE HAVE THIS ISSUE OF CONTINUITY AND ALSO CHANGE SORT OF INSTANCES OF CONSTANCY AND VARIATION. SO IN THIS CASE, I WOULD SAY THIS MAKES A VERY CLEAR DIFFERENTIATION TO THE ORIGINAL BUILDING. AND TO THAT POINT, THIS IS THE ADDITION WE DID TO THE ARLINGTON HOUSE WHERE WE COPIED THE EXACT PROPORTION OF THE ORIGINAL QUEEN ANNE HOME AND THEN REINTERPRETED IT INTO A NEW SIMPLIFIED VOLUME. SO THERE ARE WAYS TO MAKE THESE THINGS WORK, BUT THEY'RE ARCHITECTURAL, THEY'RE NOT A BUILDER THING. AND SO I REALIZED IT'S TOUGH FOR ME COMING TO YOU GUYS AND MAKING THAT PRESENTATION BECAUSE YOU'RE RELYING ON SOMEONE WHO'S ACTUALLY GONNA TAKE TIME AND CARE TO MAKE IT WORK. SO I BELIEVE IN THE SPIRIT, IT MATCHES THE INTENTION OF THE ORDINANCE, BUT THERE'S THAT LATITUDE OF DISCUSSION THAT WE NEED TO HAVE HERE TODAY ABOUT THAT. YEAH, I THINK MARK, MY, THE, THE DIFFERENCES, THESE EXAMPLES YOU'VE SHOWN ARE ON THE REAR OF THE STRUCTURE WHERE THERE'S A LOT MORE OPTIONS, UM, AND AND POINTS OF DEPARTURE. PART OF THE ISSUE AS I SEE IT, IS THAT THIS ADDITION IS VERY FAR, IT'S VERY, IT'S VERY CLOSE TO THE FRONT, YOU KNOW, OF THE HOUSE. AND TYPICALLY, YOU KNOW, I WOULD SAY IN AN AREA WHERE WE'VE NEVER ALLOWED ANY SIDE ADDITIONS TO OCCUR, THAT THAT FAR FORWARD, YOU KNOW MM-HMM . AT LEAST BEING 50% BACK IS SORT OF BEEN ALIGNED IN THE SAND. NOT EVEN GETTING INTO WHAT, WHAT, WHAT THE ADDITION IS. SO I THINK SOME OF THE, THIS DISCUSSION TODAY IS, UM, HAS TO DO WITH THE LOCATION OF, OF THE PROPOSED, UM, YOU KNOW, GLASS BOX. SURE. IN PROXIMITY TO THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE IS, IS ONE ISSUE. AND UM, YOU KNOW, LIKE IN MY WORK WITH LIKE, UH, YOU KNOW, WITH THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION AT TIMES, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN ALLOW A GLASS BOX. THEY OFTEN MAKE US USE SOME MATERIAL ON THE MAIN HOUSE ON THE BOX AND DETAIL IT IN A WAY THAT'S OF OUR TIME. BUT THERE'S, BUT DIP GENERALLY WE'RE AT THE REAR OF THE STRUCTURE OR WHERE, OR AT LEAST WE'RE REALLY FAR BACK, YOU KNOW, IF, UH, BUT GENERALLY IT'S, IT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S SORT OF THE, THE, THE CONVERSATION. I MEAN, I THINK IT'S, IT'S, AND THAT IN OUR ORDINANCE IS WRITTEN JUST SUGGESTS THAT THESE ALTERATIONS HAVE SOME BEARING IN THE PERIOD, UH, PERIOD OF SIGNIFICANCE, WHETHER IN THEIR FORM, UH, ROOF TYPE AND WINDOW OPENINGS, YOU KNOW, ALTHOUGH THERE IS LATITUDE OBVIOUSLY. AND OF COURSE WHEN WE GET ON THE BACK, THERE'S A LOT OF LATITUDE AND IF WE CAN'T SEE IT FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY, THERE'S EVEN MORE LATITUDE, RIGHT. SO THAT, I THINK THAT'S KIND OF WHY THIS, I THINK THERE'S A RECOMMENDATION HERE FROM, FROM STAFF. I THINK THAT'S HAS A LOT TO DO WITH WHERE IT IS ON THE PROPERTY. IS A, IS A BIG ISSUE I THINK FOR THE WAY THE ORDINANCE IS SET UP HERE. BUT I THINK THERE ARE OTHER QUESTIONS TOO. SO, SO I, I WALKED THIS HOUSE WITH TERRANCE AND JASON A COUPLE MONTHS AGO. UM, I THINK IT'S AN INTERESTING PROJECT. I THINK IT'S GREAT 'CAUSE IT'S 382 SQUARE FEET. THEY HAVE A 19% FAR, WHICH IS JUST SHOCKING ON A 10,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT. I WANNA REALLY THINK ABOUT THAT. UM, THE LUMINOUS SEE-THROUGH STUFF, I THINK DEMATERIALIZES IT AND TRIES TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE ISSUE ON THIS PROPERTY. THERE'S A BIG PORCH IN THE BACK AND A SWIMMING POOL AND I THINK THERE'S REASONS WHY THEY WOULD WANT TO USE THIS LEFTOVER SPOT. UH, I ALSO WANT TO POINT OUT ON TWO WAVERLY PLACE, THAT BUILDING IS ON BISSONET AND IT HAS RUSTY METAL PANELS THAT WE LET THEM PUT ON THAT ARE EXTREMELY VISIBLE FROM BISSONNET. YOU CAN SEE IT, I DRIVE ON BINET EVERY DAY AND I SEE IT. AND SO THAT'S A TWO STORY BRICK COLONIAL HOUSE WITH RUSTY METAL PANELS ON THE BACK OF IT THAT ARE ON THE SIDE. IT'S LIKE A, IT'S LIKE ALMOST A CORNER LOT 'CAUSE IT'S GOT AN ALLEY. BUT, SO I'M NOT REALLY BOTHERED BY THE MATERIAL CHANGE IN THIS CASE. AND I APPRECIATE THAT HE'S TRYING TO DO SOMETHING THAT'S NOT MIMICKING. WE HAVE THIS STRUGGLE LIKE THE HOUSE ON COURTLAND, WHERE THEY JUST TRY TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE A 1920S HOUSE. AND SO I, I THINK THIS IS REFRESHING TO SEE SOMETHING LIKE THIS. SO I THINK IN THIS CASE, TO ME THE ISSUE IS IS THE LOCATION AND IT'S TOUGH 'CAUSE IT'S IN THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, BUT IT IS SUCH A SMALL THING AND I THINK THERE COULD BE WAYS TO MASSAGE IT TO MAKE IT MORE SYMPATHETIC. 'CAUSE RIGHT NOW IT'S PRETTY, PRETTY BRASH THAT WOULD MAKE IT SO THAT IT WOULD BE AN ACCEPTABLE PROJECT. THERE ARE THE QUESTIONS OF THE, I DON'T HAVE ANY, NO, I WAS JUST GONNA SAY I AGREE WITH, WITH COMMISSIONER KA. I MEAN, I DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE AS MUCH TROUBLE WITH THE, THE DESIGN ELEMENT, THE GLASS. I MEAN, IT IS A PRODUCT OF ITS OWN TIME. I MEAN IT'S, IT'S POSITIONED IN A WAY THAT SOMEONE COULD REMOVE IT AND THERE WOULD [03:30:01] BE NO IMPACT TO THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE, WHICH I DO THINK IS A, BUT, BUT I DO STILL STRUGGLE. IT IS VERY FORWARD. AND THAT IS JUST SOMETHING THAT AS A COMMISSION, WHEN WE DO A DECIDE EDITIONS, WE DON'T TYPICALLY LET PEOPLE DO IT. AND IF WE LET ONE PERSON DO IT, THEN IT OPENS UP A LITTLE BIT OF A BOX FOR US THAT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH DOWN THE ROAD. ALTHOUGH EACH PROJECT IS INDIVIDUAL. EXACTLY. AND, AND, AND THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I'M TRYING TO PRESENT THIS AS. IT'S A UNIQUE ONE OFF. WE, WE TEND TO GET THESE WEIRD PROJECTS AND THIS IS ONE OF THEM. I KNOW YOU GUYS CAN'T CONSIDER FENCING IN TREES AND THAT SORT OF STUFF IN YOUR DELIBERATIONS, BUT IN REALITY THIS IS BEHIND A BIG FENCE AND IT'S A LOW, IT'S LIKE WHAT, 12 FEET TALL? UM, SO IT'S NOT REALLY VISIBLE FROM THE STREET. IF YOU TOOK THE FENCE DOWN, YOU WOULD JUST LOOK THROUGH IT. AND IT IS MUCH SMALLER THAN THE, UH, ADDITIONS THAT HAVE BEEN DONE TO OTHER HOMES AROUND IT. I COMPLETELY ACKNOWLEDGE IT'S A WEIRD LITTLE THING, BUT I THINK IT REALLY WORKS WELL. IT'S SMALL, IT KEEPS THE EXISTING HOUSE INTACT. ALL THE EXISTING HISTORICAL MATERIAL IS BROUGHT INTO THE ADDITION. SO IT'S A REAL MINIMAL THING. WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO DO SOME TRICKY STEEL FRAMING TO MAKE THAT LITTLE CONNECTOR ROOF WORK. BUT IT'S, IT'LL JUST LOOK LIKE IT'S SNAPPED ON, NOT GLOBBED ON. I MEAN, IS THERE ANY WAY TO PUSH IT BACK FARTHER? UM, WE COULD DO THAT, BUT THE, THE BALANCE POINT THERE ARCHITECTURALLY IS THE CONNECTING PIECE. WE HAVE IT IN THE DRAWING SECTION. IF THEY COULD BRING THAT UP, UM, THAT'S A LOW SCALE WHERE THE LITTLE CLOSET AND BATHROOM ARE AND IT'S UNDERNEATH THE ROOF, UM, THE EXISTING EVELINE ROOF. SO IF WE SLID THE BUILDING ALL THE WAY BACK, WE'D BASICALLY SMUSHING THE VOLUME BACK INTO THE ROOF, UH, ROOF, UH, ROOF LINE. SO AT THE MOMENT WE WERE TRYING TO MAINTAIN AS MUCH OF THE PRESENCE OF THE ORIGINAL HOUSE AS POSSIBLE. AND I THINK IF YOU SHIFTED IT BACK, YOU COMPROMISE THAT A LITTLE BIT. SO YOU COULD, BUT IT'S A BY DEGREES KIND OF CONVERSATION. UM, THE PLAN, THE PLAN VIEW, I THINK SHOWS THAT THE BEST MR YEAH, I HAVE MICROPHONE. I'M SORRY. YOU WANNA BUILD IT AS A CARPORT BECAUSE A CARPORT THAT I, A STRUCTURE UP FRONT LIKE THAT AND THEN IT'S, IT'S REALLY EASY THAT I JUST DRIVE IN AND WALK STRAIGHT INTO THE WHATEVER DINING ROOM, EXISTING GREAT ROOM AND SO ON. I THINK IF, I THINK IF IT WERE, I THINK IT WERE A CARPORT AND IT HAD VOID, ACTUAL VOID SPACE, BUT IT WOULD STILL HAVE TO BE, IT STILL 30, 20 FEET FROM THE FRONT OF THE PROPERTY. WE HAVE ALWAYS DENIED CARPORTS THAT PEOPLE WANNA BUILD CLOSER TO THE FRONT. RIGHT. WE ALWAYS TELL THEM 50% PASS BASICALLY. SO I WHAT IS THE PHILOSOPHY HERE THAT HAS CHANGED SINCE THEN? BECAUSE THEN NOTHING'S CHANGED. I MEAN THIS IS, THIS IS AN APPLICATION WE'RE REVIEWING MM-HMM . I MEAN THE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION WAS DENIAL. NOTHING'S CHANGED, BUT, BUT THE APPLICANT IS MAKING A CASE FOR THEIR PROJECT. AND AGAIN, I THINK THE PROXIMITY TO THE FRONT IS THE BIGGEST ISSUE THAT WE FACE. WHETHER YOU, THAT THAT INTERSTITIAL SPACE CAN SOMEWHAT SLIDE OVER THE REAR MASS AND REDUCE THAT, YOU KNOW, TO PULL IT BACK. 'CAUSE I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S REALLY HOW FAR FORWARD THAT, THAT SIDE ADDITION IS. UM, THAT IS THE BIGGEST THING THAT I SEE. I MEAN, I THINK THIS IS A VERY INTERESTING HOUSE. I I, I THINK ALL THE ELEMENTS OF THE REAR OF THE HOUSE ARE ALSO VERY NICE AND OVER OUR TIME AND, BUT WE ALSO CAN'T SEE THEM BACK THERE. SO IT'S TRUE. SO IT MEETS PART OF THE ORDINANCE AND I MEAN, THERE ARE ASPECTS OF OUR ORDINANCE THAT MAY NEED TO BE CHANGED, BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S WRITTEN NOT TO REALLY ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN. AND, BUT AGAIN, BUT OUR ORDINANCE DOES CHANGE OVER TIME WHEN THERE'S CONSENSUS TO CHANGE IT. AND SO, AND THAT MAY BE SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, WE, IT'D BE NICE TO BE CONTINUING OUR CAMP DISCUSSIONS ABOUT MM-HMM . A NUMBER OF THINGS. UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, FALSE PAST IS ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT WE TALK ABOUT A LOT. UM, BUT I GUESS THE THING TO ME IS IF IT DIDN'T HAVE THAT ONE SECTION TOUCHING THE, THE WINDOW OF THE BEDROOM, THEN IT LITERALLY WOULDN'T BE TOUCHING THE HOUSE. IT'S ATTACHED TO THE ADDITION. SO THEN TO ME THAT KIND OF CHANGES THE, THE, THE MATH SO TO SPEAK. AND THAT IT'S NOT ATTACHED, IT'S NOT PHYSICALLY TOUCHING THE HOUSE. IT'S, IT'S A DIFFERENT SITUATION. AND SO THIS ONE, YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS TALKING TO THEM I WAS LIKE, HMM, I DON'T KNOW, IT'S LIKE KIND OF WEIRD. 'CAUSE WHAT'S YOUR POINT ABOUT WHETHER IT'S ATTACHED? WELL, 'CAUSE NORMALLY THE ADDITIONS ARE ATTACHED TO THE HOUSE AND THEY LIKE TAKE AWAY HISTORICAL FABRIC ON THE HOUSE WHEN THEY'RE ATTACHED TO IT. AND THIS IS LITERALLY NOT TOUCHING THE HOUSE EXCEPT FOR ONE TINY LITTLE PART. AND SO I WAS WONDERING IF HE COULD TAKE THAT SECTION SO IT'S LITERALLY NOT TOUCHING THE HOUSE AND ONLY TOUCHING THE ADDITION THEN, THEN TO ME IT WOULD BE LESS OF A PROBLEM TO, TO ALLOW IT TO, TO GO FORWARD AS IS. 'CAUSE YOU COULD DEMOLISH THIS COMPLETELY AND NOTHING WOULD HAPPEN IN THE HOUSE. IS IT POSSIBLE [03:35:01] TO ENLARGE ON THE YELLOW AREA IN THE PLANE? UM, IF YOU PLEASE COULD. 'CAUSE THEN, UH, THAT'S THE POINT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE AND I DIDN'T SAY THAT EXPLICITLY. UM, SO THE GLASS CORNER ACTUALLY LOOKS ACROSS, SO THE, THE POINT OF CONNECTION OF THE NEW PROPOSED EDITION IS LIMITED TO THE BACK AREA WHILE THE PROJECTING GLASS OF VOLUME COMES FORWARD. THERE'S A LITTLE COURTYARD WRAPAROUND THAT YOU LOOK ALL THE WAY THROUGH. SO IT WOULD REALLY BE HOW DO YOU CONSTRUE WHAT THE LINE IS, WHICH IS WHY IT'S A UNIQUE CASE. ENTER THROUGH THE EXISTING BEDROOM OR THROUGH THE GREAT ROOM, YOU ENTER THROUGH THE GREAT ROOM. SO WOULD THERE BE AN APPETITE FOR PULLING IT OFF OF THAT BEDROOM WALL BY INCHES? THAT, THAT CERTAINLY COULD HAPPEN. UM, AND SO LET ME ADDRESS THAT TWO. THAT WAS THE SUGGESTION THAT I MADE EARLIER THIS WEEK BECAUSE MARK, YOU ARE LOSING A WINDOW IN THIS PROPOSAL. WE, WE ARE, YES. WE'RE, WE'RE LOSING. WE ARE HAVING A WINDOW THAT'S BECOMING THE DOOR INTO THE BED, INTO THE BEDROOM, OFF THE GREAT ROOM. THE WINDOWS ALONG THE SOUTH ARE THE, UH, THE OUTSIDE FACADE. ALL OF THOSE STAY, WE'RE GONNA BRING GLASS OVER AND JUST LIKE GO RIGHT TO THE MIDDLE OF THE TWO PANELS. SO IT'S ALL A GLASS COMPOSITION AT THAT POINT. I, I THOUGHT SO WILL YOU BE KEEPING THE EXTERIOR SIDING THERE? WE'RE KEEPING THE EXISTING SIDING THERE. SO NONE OF WITH A, THE ONLY REAL MODIFICATION TO THE OUTSIDE OF THE EXISTING HOUSE IS WHERE THE DOOR IS. SO IN WHAT WILL BE THE NEW CLOSET AND THE NEW BATHROOM, THE EXTERIOR SIDING IS MAINTAINED, WE'RE GONNA CANTILEVER THAT LITTLE ROOF OVER WITH A LITTLE STEEL FRAME AND JUST TOUCH THE BUILDING. SO WHEN YOU LOOK THROUGH THE GLASS, YOU WILL SEE THE EXISTING, UH, PERIMETER OF THE HOUSE ALL THE WAY THROUGH AS YOU GO THROUGH. AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY WALK OUT INTO THE FRONT COURT AND INTO THE LITTLE COURTYARD TO THE SIDE. IT'S, IT'S A WEIRD LITTLE THING. IT'S, IT'S A VERY UNIQUE THING. AND THE REASON WE DIDN'T PUSH IT ALL THE WAY, THE BACK AGAIN, IS THAT THEN INTERFERES WITH THE MASSING OF THE EXISTING HOUSE. SO WE'RE TRYING TO LIKE, WHICH POISON DO YOU TAKE OR WHICH OPPORTUNITY? SO THE EXISTING GREAT ROOM IS ACTUALLY A ADDITION, RIGHT? WE BELIEVE IT WAS AN ADDITION THAT WAS DONE 20 OR 30 YEARS AFTER THE ORIGINAL HOUSE. OKAY, SO I HAVE A QUESTION. IT'S IN CLAD WITH HISTORIC MATERIAL. UM, SO IT'S, I WOULD CONSTRUE IT AS BEING IN THE PERIOD OF HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE, BUT NOT, BUT NOT ON ORIGINAL TO THE ORIGINAL HOUSE. I BELIEVE STAFF AGREES THAT IT'S NOT ORIGINAL TO THE HOUSE. OKAY. THAT THAT IS, THAT'S AN, IT'S AN ADDITION. AND YEAH, GO AHEAD. I JUST WANTED TO ESTABLISH THAT PREMISE FIRST BEFORE I SAY THIS. SO IF I WERE TO COME AS A HOMEOWNER AND I WANT TO BUILD A NEW ADDITION, AND I BUILD AN ADDITION THAT IS LIKE AN LHA, JUST LIKE THIS THING, BUT THE L IS MOVING, NOT MOVING BACKWARDS, BUT MOVING FRONTWARD TO THE HOUSE, WILL YOU NEXT TIME APPROVE ME DOING THAT? WE HAVEN'T APPROVED THAT, THAT FAR FORWARD. THAT'S OUR ISSUE NOW. WELL THEN, THEN THE SAME WE, AND WE DON'T FOR THIS, WE DON'T USE FENCING OR LANDSCAPING TO, TO UH, NOT SEE THESE THINGS. ALTHOUGH THERE IS A VERY TALL WALL THAT EFFECTIVELY YOU WILL NOT SEE THIS FROM A RIGHT OF WAY. THAT'S YEAH, BUT STILL YOU WILL NOT APPROVE ME IF I WERE TO. BUT I THINK ALSO THE THING IS ABOUT THE WALL, THIS ADDITION IS THAT IT'S 300 SQUARE FEET IS TINY. IF YOU'RE BUILDING A BIG THING THAT WRAPS AROUND THE WHOLE HOUSE THAT'S DIFFERENT. LIKE THIS TO ME IS VERY, VERY SMALL. UM, DOCUMENT CAMERA, IF I MAY, WE HAVE ONE MORE IMAGE WE CAN BRING UP TO ADDRESS THAT POINT. THIS IS THE ARLINGTON HOUSE A COUPLE BLOCKS AWAY. WE DID A FEW YEARS AGO. THIS IS ABOUT THE EXACT SAME SIZE OF THE GLASS WALL WE'RE PROPOSING. SO THE REASON I'M MENTIONING THIS AND WANNA LOOK AT THIS IS WHEN I SAY THIS IS CASE BY CASE, IT'S CASE BY CASE. 'CAUSE I UNDERSTAND IF YOU'RE DEALING WITH THE ISSUE OF THE FRONT SETBACK AND SOMEONE ELSE COMES IN NEXT MONTH AND SAYS, WELL WHY DID YOU GIVE IT TO THEM AND YOU DIDN'T GIVE THIS TO US. YOU SAY, WELL THEIRS WAS ALL GLASS. YOU KNOW, YOU COULD LOOK ALL THE WAY THROUGH IT TO THE HISTORICAL HOUSE. SO IT IS A ONE-OFF CONTEXT THAT REALLY MERITS THE KIND OF DISCUSSION THAT I THINK COMMISSIONER COUCH IS, IS POINTING AT HERE. MY, MY TAKE ON IT. BUT THAT, THAT'S WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. CAN I ASK ABOUT WALLS AND FENCES? I MEAN IS A FENCE ON THE SITE NEXT TO THE HOUSE? YES. WHICH GREEN THIS HAVE? THEY HAVE AN ARCHITECT. THIS WHOLE HOUSE IS OWNED BY AN INTERIOR PERSON WHO'S IN HAS IT'S VERY WELL DONE. THEY HAVE A VERY NICE FENCE IN THE FRONT AND THE LANDSCAPING IS IMPECCABLE. SO I MEAN MEAN YOU WOULDN'T SEE THE ADDITION FROM THE STREET BECAUSE OF THE, IN REAL TERMS, NO, YOU WILL NOT SEE THE ADDITION FROM THE STREET, BUT YOU GUYS FROM CONSIDERATION CAN'T CONSIDER THE FENCE, BUT THEY COULD ALSO TAKE THE ADDITION OFF, RIGHT? LIKE IF THEY TOOK DOWN THE FENCE, THEY COULD TAKE DOWN THE ADDITION. RIGHT? YEAH. BUT WHY, WHY WOULD THEY LIKELY TO BE THE OTHER WAY AROUND ? YEAH, YOU CAN, YOU CAN SEE THE FENCING HERE. WELL, AND AGAIN, THE WAY OUR ORDINANCE IS WRITTEN IS THAT WE CAN'T TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION. AND I, AND I WOULD LIKE, UNLESS SOMEONE CHANGES THE ORDINANCE, [03:40:01] AND I WOULD LIKE TO ADD, WHICH WE CAN DO RIGHT NOW, AND I WOULD LIKE TO ADD, UH, AND I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. I THINK IT'S A GREAT IDEA OF ADDITION. IT'S REFRESHING ACTUALLY, BUT MY CONCERN IS THE HEIGHT. IT'S A, IT'S PRETTY TALL AND I THINK IT'D BE MORE PALATABLE IF IT WERE JUST A TAD BIT LOWER. UH, THAT'S WHAT I'M OBSERVED. BUT YOU CAN MAYBE CAN SEE IT A LITTLE BIT OVER THE FENCE, MAYBE FELT IT WOULD JUST REDUCE JUST A LITTLE BIT IN HEIGHT. IT, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE OWNER WOULD BE AGREEABLE, LIKE CHOPPING A FOOT OFF OF IT. THEY WOULD PROBABLY FROWN AT ME, BUT IF I TOLD THEM THAT'S WHAT THE COMMISSION ASKED, I'M SURE WE COULD DO THAT. I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE GOOD IF THURSDAY SOME WAY. CHAIRMAN, CHAIRMAN, YOU CHECK? YES. COMMISSIONER SEPULVEDA REQUESTS PERMISSION TO LEAVE. OKAY, I HAVE ANOTHER MEETING. OKAY, THANK YOU. GO AHEAD BEN. OH, I WAS THINKING IF THERE'S A WAY YOU COULD ACKNOWLEDGE THE EAVES OF THE, OF THE HOUSE. THE HOUSE, LIKE IF YOU HAD A, A LOW PITCH HIP ROOF, YOU COULD STILL GET HEIGHT INSIDE THE SPACE, BUT YOU COULD HAVE THE EAVES MORE AT THE HEIGHT OF THE EAVE OF THE HOUSE. UM, I BELIEVE SO, BUT THE OWNER'S DESIRE, NOT THAT IT NECESSARILY MATTERS, IS THEY REALLY WANT THIS SHARP DIFFERENTIATION OF A REALLY MODERN ADDITION. SO THEY'D LIKE, THEY'D LIKE TO KEEP THAT SORT OF FLAT SHAPE AND MAYBE WE JUST SQUISH IT DOWN IF THAT WOULD BE AGREEABLE. HAVE YOU, SORRY, HAVE YOU IDENTIFIED THE CEILING AND ROOF, UH, CONCEPTS? ARE THEY HERE OR THEY'RE, WE HAVE A SECTION IN THE DRAWINGS. I BELIEVE IN THE SUBMISSION MARK AS WE TALK WITH THE TWO QUESTIONS I HAVE. ONE IS, DO YOU STEP DOWN INTO THIS ADDITION FROM THAT GREAT ROOM? I, I'M, I'M SORRY, I WAS TERENCE. WAS IS THE FLOOR OF THE ADDITION PROPOSED EDITION ALIGNED WITH THE FLOOR OF THE GREAT ROOM OR YOU STEP DOWN INTO IT? YOU STEP DOWN. OKAY. AND SO THE, THE PROPOSAL HERE IS THE, THE FOUNDATION OF THE ADDITION IS BASICALLY AT GRADE LEVEL AND YOU STEP TWO STEPS DOWN INTO IT. THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT GIVES US THE HEIGHT TO BRING IN THAT CONNECTOR PIECE UNDER THE EXISTING EVE LINE. AND THEN THE MAIN VOLUME OF THE BEDROOM STEPS UP FROM THERE. SO I THINK WE HAVE AN 11 FOOT CEILING SHOWN WITH AN OVERALL HEIGHT OF 12 FEET. AND AGAIN, THIS IS A TINY LITTLE STRUCTURE. IT'S LIKE THE SIZE OF THIS ROOM, IT'S PROBABLY A SLAB ON GRADE. UM, WE'RE THINKING OF DOING IT THAT WAY, BUT WHAT WE'LL PROBABLY DO, UM, IS WE'LL DO PIERS AND DO A STIFFEN SLAB THAT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, 10 INCHES THICK SO IT DOESN'T HAVE GREAT BEAMS TO INTERFERE WITH ANY ROOT STRUCTURE. STRUCTURAL SLAB. YEAH. MY SECOND QUESTION MARK IS LIKE LOOKING AT THIS ELEVATION, IF WE BLOW UP INTO THE LOWER ELEVATION WITH THE YELLOW BOX SHOWING THE HOUSE IS, IS THERE ANY WAY STILL TO PUSH THIS BACK SLIGHTLY, LIKE IF YOU CAN BRING THE HEIGHT DOWN, IF THAT'S A VERY HIGH CEILING HEIGHT, IF YOU CAN BRING THE HEIGHT DOWN AS COMMISSIONER COUCH SUGGESTED, IS THERE ANY WAY THAT THAT MASK CAN CENTER ON THAT MAIN GABLE BY BY? WELL, I'M JUST ASKING A QUESTION. I'M, I MEAN, UM, IT'S, IT'S A, IT'S TOUGH. UM, AND IF, IF, AND IF, IF THE, IF THE ANSWER IS NOT CENTERED ON IT, IS THERE ANY, LIKE, IS THERE A SLICE THAT YOU CAN TAKE OUT OF THE BEDROOM AND OR THE CONNECTOR TO MAKE SOME KIND OF MOVEMENT? I, I IT'S A, IT'S A QUESTION. YEAH. I, I, I THINK TO SORT OF BE, YES, BUT LET ME DO THE ASTERISK CAVEAT TO THAT. UM, THE BEDROOM IS SIZED RIGHT NOW BASED ON THE FURNITURE THE OWNER WANTS TO PUT IN THE ROOM. I'M SURE WE COULD SHRINK IT EIGHT INCHES A FOOT HERE. WE COULD PROBABLY SHRINK THE CLOSET SIX INCHES, EIGHT INCHES THAT WAY. SO AGGREGATELY, I MIGHT BE ABLE TO, IN PRACTICAL TERMS, SHRINK THE THING MAYBE A FOOT AND A HALF TO TWO FEET THAT WOULDN'T BE OPTIMAL FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE. BUT IF THAT WOULD BE A COMPROMISE TO YOU GUYS, I THINK THEY WOULD BE AGREEABLE TO THAT. BUT AT SOME POINT THE ROOM GETS TOO SMALL. 'CAUSE IT'S NOT BIG ALREADY. I I UNDERSTAND THAT. YEAH, I UNDERSTAND THAT THE ASPECT, UH, UH, MR CHAIR, UH, YOU KNOW, THE PRINCIPAL ARCHITECT HAS HEARD MANY COMMENTS AND MANY SUGGESTIONS, UH, POSSIBLE, UH, UH, WORKAROUNDS, UH, WHILE I, LET ME RECOMMEND A SUGGESTED DEFERRAL SO THEN HE CAN AT LEAST COME BACK WITH HIS BEST VERSION FORWARD AND MAYBE CAN GET THIS, THIS IS THE BEST VERSION, UH, NO , AND THEN MAYBE GET A, GET A BETTER, UH, BECAUSE THEN WE CAN REMOVE THE CONNECTOR PIECE TO THE SIDE WALL AND JUST HAVE IT GO STRAIGHT TO THE BACK AND THEREFORE MORE OF A SEPARATION OF A STRUCTURE AND SO ON. I DON'T SEE IT. THERE COULDN'T BE ANY MORE SEPARATION OF THE STRUCTURE AND, AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT BEING IN THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, BUT IT'S, IT'S NOT, IT'S ON THE SIDE. IF IT WEREN'T FOR THE FENCE, IT WOULD BE VISIBLE FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY, BUT IT'S NOT IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE. THERE'S A LOT OF THE HOUSE THAT'S IN FRONT OF THIS. SO, AND THERE'S THE COURT THAT SEPARATES IT. IT IT, THEY ONLY TOUCH IN THE BACK. YEAH. BUT, BUT IN TERMS OF THE DISCOMFORT ABOUT IT'S WHERE IT IS. FOR INSTANCE, IF WE WERE IN THE BACK OF THE HOUSE, WE'VE BEEN FINISHED WITH THIS A LONG TIME AGO AND, AND THERE'S REASONS WHY IT'S NOT, BUT IT, IT'S ON THE SIDE. IF IT WEREN'T [03:45:01] FOR THE EIGHT FOOT EXISTING FENCE, IT WOULD BE VISIBLE FROM THE FRONT, BUT IT'S NOT IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE. NO. AND YOUR CLAIM IS THAT IT WOULD NOT BE VISIBLE FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY GIVEN THE EXISTING CONDITION, WHICH IS AN EIGHT FOOT FENCE. SO YOU COULD LOWER IT A LITTLE. I I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT WOULD HAVE ANY, UH, AND MAYBE IT WOULD MAKE SOMEONE FEEL BETTER, BUT IT, I DON'T SEE WHAT LOWERING AT A FOOT OR SO DOES ACCEPT SORT OF CHEAT THE DESIGN A LITTLE BIT TO, TO KNOW BETTER EFFECT THAT I CAN THINK OF. AND, AND I FEEL THE SAME WAY ABOUT MOVING IT BACK. IF YOU SHRUNK THE BEDROOM, SO IT WAS, UH, A POD , UH, AND YOU HUNG FURNITURE ON THE WALLS INSTEAD OF HAVE IT ON THE FLOOR, THEN THE ISSUES ARE FOR BETTER AND FOR WORSE ARE ALL THE SAME TO ME. MM-HMM . BY A FOOT HERE, A FOOT THERE. I, I DON'T WELL, I WAS MAKING A RECOMMENDATION. DEFERRAL. DO YOU HAVE ANOTHER ONE? I I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO TO LOWER THE MOTION. A MOTION, SORRY. MOTION RECOMMENDATION. MOTION. UH, TO PULL IT BACK TWO FEET AS YOU SAID, YOU THINK YOU CAN DO AND LOWER IT BY A FOOT, IF YOU CAN DO THAT. OKAY. AND, AND DOES YOUR MOTION THEN WOULD, WOULD THEN APPROVE THE DESIGN TO GO FORWARD, COORDINATED WITH STAFF, ET CETERA VERSUS DE DEFERRAL. IS THAT, THAT'S PRETTY SPECIFIC THINGS TO TWO VERY SPECIFIC CONDITIONS, BUT THE CONNECTOR IS STILL THERE. WHAT ABOUT INTERACTION? THE CONNECTOR DOESN'T BOTHER ME BECAUSE HE'S LEAVING ALL THE SIDING AND THE WINDOW INTACT. HE'S JUST PUTTING A PIECE OF GLASS AGAINST THE, THE HOUSE. LIKE, LIKE SINCE ALL THE SING STAYS THERE, TO ME IT DOESN'T, IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE A PROBLEM. WELL, IT'D BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW YOU CAN CLEAN THE SIDING. I KNOW THE GONNA BE UNDERNEATH THE ROOF OF THE NEW ADDITION MATTER, BUT THAT, THAT WOULD BE MY UN UM, EDUCATED QUESTION TO YOU, MARK IS, I MEAN, IS THERE, HAVING DONE THIS TYPE OF, OF CONSTRUCTION BEFORE MM-HMM . YOU CAN DO THAT. SO IT'S NOT GONNA CONTRIBUTE TO THE DETERIORATION OF THE EXISTING SIDING OR OH YEAH. ANY MATERIALS MEAN THAT'S, THAT'S A GIVEN . UM, WE, WE DO HAVE, YOU KNOW, ENOUGH SEPARATION THAT IT IS A, IT'S LIKE A, I WOULD SAY NEW ORLEANS RESTAURANT COURTYARD TYPE ENTRY SPACE WHERE IT'S NARROW AND YOU GO AND THERE'S A SEPARATION BETWEEN THE TWO. BUT PEOPLE HAVE FENCES THREE FEET FROM PROPERTIES ALL THE TIME AND IT'S EIGHT FOOT FENCE AND THE SIGHTINGS. OKAY. I HAVE A MOTION ON THE TABLE. IS THERE A SECOND? I, I'LL SECOND. AND, AND I'D LIKE TO SAY SOMETHING IF I MAY, IN TERMS OF A DISCUSSION ITEM BEFORE THE VOTE, I, I FEEL TERRIBLE ABOUT SEVERAL OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE PROVED TODAY PER THE ORDINANCE THAT HAVE BEEN TO THE DETRIMENT OF THE HOUSES THAT THEY'RE APPENDED TO AND THEREFORE A DETRIMENT TO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. AND I THINK THIS CLEARLY FLATTERS WHAT'S EXISTING AND, UM, I'M GLAD TO SEE IT TODAY. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? THIS FOR CLARIFICATION? TWO FEET BACK. ONE FEET DOWN. THAT'S THE MOTION. THAT'S THE MOTION. ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION? AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? THE MOTION? NAY. ANY ABSTENTIONS? MOTION PASSES. WILL YOU MOVE OFF? THANK YOU. I KNOW YOU GUYS HAVE HAD A ROUGH DAY. OUR DAY'S. NOT OVER THIS DAY'S. NOT OVER YOU. GOOD JOB. OKAY, WE'LL MOVE ON TO ITEM B, COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC. DOES ANYONE FROM THE PUBLIC, IF YOU'RE STILL HERE, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SAY ANYTHING? I MEAN ALL THINGS THE ROUGHER, UM, WE GOT 40 MINUTES. LET'S RELAX. OKAY. NOT HEARING ANY COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC. ARE THERE ANY COMMENTS FROM THE HAHC? I HAVE A QUICK COMMENT. SORRY, VIRGINIA, I BELIEVE VIRGINIA, WE'LL GO BACK. IF YOU COULD RESTATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD. VIRGINIA KELSEY REPRESENTING NOR HILL. THANK YOU FOR, UM, WE LOOK FORWARD TO RECEIVING THE NOR HILL GUIDELINES. UM, I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHEN THAT'S GONNA BE. UM, IF IT'S POSTED TO LET'S TALK HOUSTON SINCE IT'S BEEN REDONE. I PERSONALLY HAVE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO SIGN ON TO LET'S TALK HOUSTON. I THINK OTHERS HAVE HAD THAT PROBLEM, SO I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANOTHER WAY OF POSTING IT IN SOME OTHER FORUM. AND THEN, UH, THIRD POINT WOULD BE I WOULD LIKE TO INVITE YOU TO COME TO OUR NOER HILL NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. IT'S ALWAYS THE LAST TUESDAY OF THE, OF THE MONTH AT SIX 30 TO TALK ABOUT THIS OR PRESENT IT. UM, AND WOULD THERE BE ANY FORUM FOR DISCUSSION WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD? THE, UH, WOODSTOCK HOUSTON IS GONNA BE, UH, TAKEN DOWN. THE CITY IS NOT GONNA RENEW OUR LICENSE, SO IT'S GONNA GO AWAY IN AUGUST. SO IN PREPARATION FOR THAT, WE'VE MOVED ALL OF THE INFORMATION ONTO THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT'S WEBSITE. SO THERE'S [03:50:01] A NOR DEDICATED NOR HILL PAGE NOW? YES. IN THE PLANNING COMMISSION WEBSITE. SO WE'LL BE POSTING THE SURVEY RESULTS THERE AND THEN WELL, WHEN WE'RE DONE WITH THE T I'M HOPING IT'LL BE THE END OF THIS WEEK AND THEN WE'LL BE SENDING A COPY, UH, TO YOU GUYS AS WELL TO POST ON YOUR SITE. AND THEN TERRANCE AND TEAM CAN FOLLOW UP WITH, UM, ENGAGEMENT WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD BECAUSE THE, BECAUSE THE NEXT STEP IS THEN INCORPORATING, IS THEN REVIEWING THE, THE GUIDELINES THEMSELVES AND UPDATING THEM. ARE, ARE YOU GOING, SORRY, ARE YOU GOING TO ALTER, I MEAN, HOW ARE YOU, YOU'RE POSTING THE RESULTS AND THEN WHEN ARE THEY GONNA BE INCORPORATED OR WILL THEY BE INCORPORATED WITH THE GUIDELINES? HOW DOES THAT PROCESS MOVE FORWARD? THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO BE WORKING ON OVER THE NEXT COUPLE WEEKS IS, IS TO SEE WHAT, IF ANYTHING, NEEDS TO BE CHANGED IN THE CURRENT DRAFT. OKAY. THANK YOU FOR THE CLARIFICATION. YOU'RE WELCOME. OKAY. UM, WE'LL MOVE ON TO COMMENTS FROM THE HAHC COMMISSIONER COSGROVE. I HAD A WANTED TO, TO ASK, UM, OF STAFF, THERE IS A PROPERTY AT 7 21 COLUMBIA STREET, WHICH HAS HAD ALL THE SIDING REMOVED FROM IT. IT'S JUST SHIPLAP AND A FEW STUDS. IT'S BEEN THAT WAY FOR ABOUT A YEAR. YEAH. THINK GOT KNOW. AND IN LIGHT OF THE DISCUSSION ON FUGATE, IS THERE SOMETHING WE CAN DO ABOUT THAT? I'M ASSUMING THAT IT MIGHT BE IN DEFAULT. WAS THAT, UM, WE'RE GONNA PULL UP A STREET VIEW THAT, WAS IT YELLOW BEFORE IT WAS YELLOW BEFORE, YEAH. OKAY. I DON'T KNOW. AND THEY, THEY DID SOME BIT OF ADDITION TO THE BACK OF IT, BUT IT IS NOT, THEY HAVE NOT WORKED ON IT IN MONTHS. KAREN WORKED ON IT. SO THEY ACTUALLY GOT A STOP WORK ORDER, UH, LAST OCTOBER. UM, THEY THEN CONTINUED TO BUILD PAST THAT STOP WORK ORDER. UH, PETE STOCKTON AND I HAVE BOTH BEEN IN CONTACT WITH THE AGENT AND OWNERS. IT'S AN LLC. UM, AND THEY'RE AWARE NOW OF THE PROPER STEPS THAT THEY NEED TO BE TAKING, UM, IN ORDER TO AT SOME POINT OBTAIN THEIR BUILDING PERMITS. UM, EVERYTHING IS ON HOLD RIGHT NOW. THEY DID, UM, CONSTRUCT A SLAB PRIOR TO HAVING INSPECTIONS DONE. UM, SO THEY WERE INSTRUCTED TO, UH, DECIDE WITH THE NEIGHBORS IF THERE WAS GONNA BE A MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT FOR THAT OR IF IT WAS GOING TO NEED TO BE DEMOLISHED AND THEN HAVE AN INSPECTION FOLLOW, UH, ALL THE PROPER STEPS IN ORDER TO, UM, APPLY FOR A COA FOR THAT GARAGE SLAB. THEY JUST RECENTLY APPLIED FOR THAT COA. SO WE WILL HOPEFULLY BE SEEING THAT MOVING FORWARD IN THE NEXT COMING MONTHS. UM, AS FAR AS WHEN CONSTRUCTION WOULD BEGIN FOR THE REST OF THAT, I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER FOR YOU AT THIS TIME. I'M LESS CONCERNED ABOUT WHEN CONSTRUCTION WILL BEGIN AND MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THE STRUCTURE FALLING DOWN YEAH. OR BEING COMPROMISED AND THAT THEY SHOULD BE TAKING SOME STEPS TO ACTUALLY SECURE IT AND YES. MAYBE PREVENT THE ENTIRE, IT GETS RAINED ON ALL THE TIME. I MEAN, THE ENTIRE INSIDE IS OPEN. I'M NOT LIKE, I MEAN, THERE'S NO EXTERIOR WALLS. THE COLOR OF THE WOOD HAS CHANGED. YES. YES. SO I JUST FEEL LIKE MAYBE THEY NEED TO BE MM-HMM . TAKING SOME STEPS TO BETTER SECURE THE PROPERTY. YES, WE ARE IN THE PROCESS. THEY'RE WAITING OF DISCUSSING ALL OF THAT WITH THE, UM, PRINCIPAL ENGINEER THAT'S ON IT. SO THANK YOU COMMISSIONER. WE'LL HAVE AN UPDATE HOPEFULLY SOON. OKAY. UH, MR. CHAIR, I HAVE, UH, I HAVE A COMMENT FOR THE POINT OF ORDER, BUT I NEED TO PRESENT IT IN FRONT OF YOU SO YOU GUYS CAN SEE IT VISUALLY, UH, AS WELL. CAN I, CAN I GO TO THE FRONT? THANK YOU. DOCUMENT CAMERA. GOOD AFTERNOON GUYS. YOU, YOU NEED TO RESTATE YOUR, SO MY, YOU NEED TO, YOU GET TO RESTATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD. UH, MY NAME IS DOMINIC. YEAH. . YEAH. AND, UH, I, I ASSUME THAT MY, UH, RESPONSIBILITY, UH, AND ACCOUNTABILITY RESTS ON ME REVIEWING PROJECTS PRIOR [03:55:01] TO PRESENTATION, OBVIOUSLY PRIOR TO TODAY AND, UH, DOING MY DUE DILIGENCE. SO I TRY TO DO THIS AT LEAST ONE TO TWO DAYS AHEAD OF THE MEETING. BUT THIS IS WHAT I SEE WHEN I LOG IN THROUGH THE HOUSTON PLANNING. AND THEN I SEE HAHC ON THE BOTTOM LEFT AND I CLICK ON THAT AND THEN THE, THE AGENDA COMES OUT AND THEN ALL THE PROJECTS COME OUT AND THEN I CLICK ON EACH ONE BECAUSE THEY'RE LINE BLUE. SO I CAN CLICK ON THIS. SO TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE, AND BEAR IN MIND WE RECEIVE THE REC, THE, UH, WHAT DO YOU CALL THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION AT 1:00 PM TODAY AND THEN AT AT 2:30 PM WHEN WE COME FOR THE MEETING, I GET THE RECOMMENDATION WITH ALL THE DESCRIPTIONS. BEFORE IT WAS JUST APPROVAL OR DENIAL. OKAY. JUST TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE. 9 0 8 KEY. THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT I SEE. SO WHAT AM I REVIEWING? I DON'T KNOW BECAUSE THERE'S NO RECOMMENDATION AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS THE ISSUE OR WHAT STAFF HAVE ANY PROBLEMS WITH IT AND THEREFORE I'M JUST READING IT LIKE PLEASURE. OKAY, SO NEXT EXAMPLE, 7 0 1 KEY. I SEE IT AS APPROVAL. IF YOU LOOK AT AT 1:00 PM 7 0 1 KEY, IT APPROVAL WITH CONDITION, BUT NO DESCRIPTION. WHAT IS THE CONDITION? SO WHEN I WAS REVIEWING IT, I THOUGHT IT WAS ALL APPROVED AND I WAS ACTUALLY NOT HAPPY BECAUSE I THOUGHT I HAVE, I SAW ISSUES THAT WERE NOT ADDRESSED. AND THEN 2:30 PM I SEE 7 0 1 KEY. NOW ALL THE APPROVAL CONDITIONS IS RETAIN ALL THE WINDOWS AND SO ON. THIRD EXAMPLE, 4 1 7 HIGHLAND, IF YOU LOOK AT IT, IT SAYS APPROVAL WITH CONDITIONS, ALL KINDS OF CONDITIONS. BUT IF YOU LOOK AT 4 1 7 HIGHLAND AT ONE O'CLOCK, IT WAS APPROVAL, TOTAL APPROVAL. SO I THOUGHT I WAS HAPPY WITH THIS BECAUSE I SAW THE CONDITIONS AND THEN NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN IT'S TOTAL APPROVAL. OKAY. AND 4 1 7, I THINK ON, AT 2:30 PM UH, WHAT WHERE IS 4 1 7? UH, IT WAS APPROVAL AS WELL. OKAY. AND THEN THE FOURTH EXAMPLE IS, UH, 1534 ALSTON STREET APPROVAL WITH CONDITIONS, IF YOU CAN SEE THERE. UH, OKAY, SORRY. HERE, THIS IS WHAT I SEE. ONLINE APPROVAL CONDITIONS, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT CONDITIONS, SO I CAN'T DO MY DUE DILIGENCE AS WELL. THE, SO ALL IS NOT LOST. THERE IS A GOOD EXAMPLE. AND THE BEST EXAMPLE TO EXEMPLIFY WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE TWO DAYS BEFORE THE, THE MEETING IS SOMETHING LIKE THIS. UH, CAN THEY SEE THE WORD RECOMMENDATION AND ALL THAT? SO THIS EXAMPLE, 8 1 7 COLUMBIA, IT'S THE ONLY ONE THAT FULFILLS THE CRITERIA FOR US AS REVIEWERS BECAUSE IT HAS A CLEAR, UH, RECOMMENDATION AND A CONDITION. AND THESE ARE NOT NEEDED BECAUSE IT IS, IT HAS EVERYTHING IN THERE. SO IN THIS CASE, WHEN I COME AT TWO 30 AND AT 2 40, 2 40, I'M EXPECTED TO GO AND DO A CONSENT, UH, APPROVAL. LOOK, LOOK AT WHAT I CAME TO THE MEETING WITH, AND I'M SUPPOSED TO APPROVE THINGS 10 MINUTES INTO THE MEETING. I DON'T THINK THIS IS WHAT THE JOB THAT YOU WANT ME TO DO, BASICALLY. SO, UM, THAT'S MY COMMENT. AND I THINK THAT THIS PROCESS NEEDS TO IMPROVE TREMENDOUSLY FOR US TO BE REVIEWERS OF AND DO OUR DUE DILIGENCE. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. THANK YOU. ARE THERE ANY OTHER ITEMS? YES, I'VE GOT ONE. UM, SORRY GUYS. I KNOW WE'VE BEEN HERE A WHILE, BUT CHAIR HICK MADE, UM, REFERENCE EARLIER TO OUR CAMP A YEAR AGO. IT HAS BEEN A YEAR. WE WE'RE ALL EXCITED WHEN WE WERE THERE, UM, TO, TO CONTINUE THAT CONVERSATION. AND WE HAVEN'T. AND SO I'D LIKE TO JUST ON THE RECORD TO TODAY, CLARIFY WHOSE ROLE THAT IS, UM, TO TRY AND OR TO SCHEDULE THAT NEXT CONVERSATION. IS THAT SHOULD SOMEONE FROM THE COMMISSION TAKE THAT ON? DOES THAT COME OUT OF THE DEPARTMENT OR OUT OF THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICE? HOW CAN, HOW CAN WE MOVE THAT FORWARD? WE HAVE A LOT OF, [04:00:01] THERE WERE A LOT OF, UM, GREAT COMMENTS AND CONVERSATION FROM CAMP AND WE HAVEN'T MOVED ON ANY OF THAT. YEAH. I REALLY WAS HOPING WE COULD TALK ABOUT WINDOWS AND HAVE SOME SORT OF COMMITTEE TO COME UP WITH LIKE A WORKABLE WAY FORWARD. 'CAUSE RIGHT NOW, JUST FOR EVERYTHING, 'CAUSE WE DO DIFFERENT THINGS IN GLENBROOK VALLEY THAN WE DO IN NOR HILL THAN WE DO IN THE HEIGHTS. AND THE, THE CAMP PEOPLE, SOME OF THEM HAVE SOME REALLY GOOD IDEAS THAT I THINK WE COULD USE FOR OURSELVES. AND I KNOW THAT WOULD REQUIRE A CHANGE IN THE ORDINANCE. BUT I THINK WE NEED TO START, LIKE, TO ME, THAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING I AGREE TO TALK ABOUT. I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION. IT'S GONNA BE A, IT'S BEEN A YEAR, A QUORUM. MM-HMM . BUT IT'S BEEN A YEAR. WHO, WHO SCHEDULES THAT? I MEAN, CAN WE CALL OURSELVES TOGETHER AND, AND HAVE A MEETING OR DOES THAT NEED TO COME OUT OF STAFF? I SUSPECT THAT WE HAVE TO COME OUTTA STAFF, BUT I DON'T KNOW. OKAY. I MEAN, I THINK WE'VE ASKED FOR THAT. YEAH. YEAH. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT JULY, AUGUST, SEPTEMBER OF LAST YEAR. I, AND SO I, I CAN ADDRESS, I'D LIKE TO MOVE THAT FORWARD PLEASE. SURE. AND AND THAT'S THE JOINT MEETING WHERE WE HAVE HPAB AND HC TO DISCUSS THOSE ITEMS OR IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE, IDEALLY, YEAH. YES. IDEALLY WE COULD ALL MEET TOGETHER, BUT I THINK IF, IF THE OPTION IS NOT MEETING BECAUSE WE CAN'T GET HAPB IN THE ROOM, HPAB IN THE ROOM, YEAH. THEN I, I THINK WE CAN GO AHEAD AND HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS SO THAT WE AS A BODY CAN, CAN, CAN SET OUR PRIORITIES. UM, AND I, I THINK FORWARD, IT WOULD BE GOOD TO BE SPECIFIC ABOUT WHAT ISSUES WE WANNA TRY TO TALK ABOUT. BECAUSE WE COULD TALK FOREVER ABOUT ALL THE PROBLEMS IN THE WORLD AND NO, BUT I, I THINK THERE'S CERTAIN THINGS THAT COME UP OVER, OVER AND OVER AGAIN, THINGS THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT WHERE WINDOWS, AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT FALSE PAST, WHICH WE HAD A LONG DISCUSSION ABOUT TODAY AND HOW OUR ORDINANCE IS WRITTEN. UM, THE ISSUE WITH THE CONDITION SPACE OVER THE PORCHES, WHICH MM-HMM . WE'VE STRUGGLED WITH, DEPENDING, I MEAN SURE. AND THERE WAS, I'M STARTING A LIST. THERE WAS A PROJECT, I HAVE THE LIST THERE, THERE WAS A PROJECT TODAY ON CONSENT THAT HAD A DOUBLE DECKER PORCH, WHICH DIDN'T COUNT TOWARD FAR AND MET EVERY ASPECT OF THE, OF THE GUIDELINES. SO, BECAUSE THAT'S HOW, IF YOU HAD A, IF YOU HAD A PORCH, IF A TWO STORY HOUSE, IT WOULD'VE BEEN A TWO, IT WOULD'VE BEEN A PORCH ON THE FIRST FLOOR AND A PORCH ON THE SECOND FLOOR. AND THEY WOULD LINE UP WITH EACH OTHER. AND THAT, WE SAW AN EXAMPLE OF THAT TODAY AND THAT'S ACTUALLY RECOMMENDED. SO, AND THAT DOESN'T ADD TO THE, TO THE SPATIAL 'CAUSE IT REALLY IS A VOID AND YOU CAN SENSE IT. YEAH. ESPECIALLY ON THE SECOND FLOOR. I THINK WE COME UP WITH A LIST. I THINK WE NEED TO KNOW IF MR. WILLIAMSON OR MR. MCCALLAN IS GONNA FIGURE OUT WHEN WE CAN MEET. AND THEN ONCE WE HAVE A DATE OF OUR MEETING, THEN WE CAN HAVE A LIST AND WE'LL KNOW, WE'LL TALK ABOUT. BUT THE MEETING'S GOTTA GET SET. AND I THINK, I THINK IF WE HAD LIKE, LIKE A REVOLVING MEETING EITHER EVERY THREE MONTHS OR EVERY FOUR MONTHS, AND THAT MEETING MIGHT ONLY BE THREE HOURS, LIKE HALF A DAY, NOT A FULL DAY, JUST JUST, YOU KNOW, AND IT COULD BE ON A SATURDAY, IT COULD BE OF THE WILLING, I MEAN IF, BECAUSE WE HAVE A HARD TIME SCHEDULING MEETINGS. BUT IF WE COULD WORK THROUGH AND IF WE CAN GET THE APPEALS BOARD AS WE ALWAYS HAVE IN THE PAST, WE REACH CONSENSUS, THEN, THEN, YOU KNOW, WE CAN CALIBRATE BETWEEN THE TWO BODIES. SO WE'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, SEEING THINGS OVERTURNED SO OFTEN. 'CAUSE WHEN THEY'VE BEEN OVERTURNED THE PAST UNDER PLANNING COMMISSION, YOU KNOW, THE, WE HAD A, WE HAD A SMALL COMMITTEE OF THREE MEMBERS OF EACH COMMISSION GOT TOGETHER, HASHED OUT CONSENSUS, THE, OR THE ORDINANCE WAS CHANGED. AND THAT KIND OF HELPED TO KIND OF GET THINGS, YOU KNOW, ON, ON PAR. SO IT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S BEEN A LONG, THAT'S BEEN A LONG TIME AGO THAT THAT TOOK PLACE. BUT TWO OF THE COMMISSIONERS THAT REPRESENTED THIS COMMISSION ARE NOW ON THE APPEALS BOARD. SO I MEAN, THEY, THEY, THEY ALSO ARE FAMILIAR WITH THAT PROCESS. SO, UM, I'D LOVE TO SEE QUARTERLY MEETINGS AND IF WE, I, IT IS CHALLENGING, IT'S CHALLENGING TO GET US ALL IN THE ROOM, BUT IF WE CAN ACKNOWLEDGE IF, IF IT'S THE WILL OF THIS BODY TO TRY AND DO THAT FOR THE NEXT YEAR. AND IF YOU CAN COME, YOU KNOW, IF WINDOWS ARE SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE, THAT YOU FEEL VERY STRONGLY ABOUT, YOU CAN COME TO THAT ONE AND, AND YOU KNOW, AS YOU'RE ABLE, BUT TO GET THOSE SCHEDULED, WE'D HAVE TO MAINTAIN QUORUM. RIGHT. TRUE, TRUE. BUT LIKE, I MEAN, WHY DON'T WE JUST DO 'EM AFTER THIS MEETING? LIKE, WHAT'S SEVEN TO EIGHT GONNA MINIMUM . BUT, BUT COULD WE DO LIKE A COMMITTEE? I MEAN, CAN I BRING A BOTTLE OF VIBE? COULDN'T WE MAKE A COMMITTEE? BECAUSE WE HAD THE COMMITTEE FOR THE, FOR THE WINDOWS IN GLENBROOK VALLEY THAT WE MET SEPARATELY FROM THE REST OF THE BOARD. AND THAT SEEMED LIKE THAT WAS OKAY AND THEN THEY CAME BACK AND MADE RECOMMENDATIONS. I MEAN, I THINK FIELD TRIPS, I THINK COMMITTEES ARE GREAT, BUT I THINK SOME OF THE ISSUES WE'RE LOOKING AT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CHANGING ORDINANCE, MAYBE THE FIRST DISCUSSION SHOULD BE AS A COMMISSION, RIGHT? AND WE GET THOSE, GET A DIRECTION OF HOW WE WANNA GO AND [04:05:01] WHAT WE WANNA LOOK AT. WELL, IT SEEMS LIKE IF WE HAD A COMMITTEE, THEY COULD MAKE A PRESENTATION TO US, LIKE AT ONE OF THESE MEETINGS AND THEN SAY WHAT THEY THINK IS A GOOD WAY TO GO FORWARD. AND THEN WE COULD THINK, SAY IF THAT WE AGREE WITH THAT OR NOT. BUT I MEAN, AT THIS POINT, WE'VE WAITED A YEAR SINCE CAMP. MM-HMM . I LIKE TO GET SOME WHAT, LIKE WHAT IS OUR CONSENSUS ON THESE? THESE LIKE, JUST LIKE THREE OR FOUR ITEMS STOP. AND THEN IF WE MEET AGAIN IN THREE MONTHS OR FOUR MONTHS, WE CAN, WE CAN SEE WHAT ISSUES AND WITHOUT DRAWING IT OUT, WE CAN, WE CAN JUST THREE, THREE ISSUES AT THAT MEETING. SO WE CAN TRY TO JUST WORK THROUGH SOME OF THESE THINGS. UM, MR. CHAIR, I THINK, YOU KNOW, WITH ALL OF US STILL HERE, WE UH, WE CAN GO BACK AND, YOU KNOW, GIVE YOU A LIST OF EACH, EACH OF US GIVE YOU A LIST OF WHAT WE THINK ARE THE TOP THREE, I THINK IS THE TOP THREE, FOR EXAMPLE. AND WHAT, UH, COMMISSIONER CURRY THOUGHTS IS DIFFERENT. BUT THEN YOU AND THEN, UH, MS. JACKSON WITH OUR JACKSON HERE CAN THEN SAY, OKAY, WE WANT THE TOP, THIS ONE ALL LINED UP. THERE'S EIGHT GUYS THAT SAY THIS IS IMPORTANT. LET'S DO THAT FIRST. SURE. BECAUSE WE CAN'T SOLVE ALL OF ROAD IN A DAY. I UNDERSTAND. BUT EVEN CAN, WE CAN DO THREE OR THREE, EVEN CAMP A A NUMBER OF PEOPLE OF THIS COMMISSION PUT FORTH THREE THINGS THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT. AND THAT'S HOW CAMP GOT ACTUALLY WORKED OUT. IN TERMS OF MR. YEAH. NAR JACKSON FOUND THE MONEY TO, TO PAY FOR CAMP, BUT THERE WAS INPUT FROM STAFF, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE ASKING MEMBERS AND SOME MEMBERS GAVE, LIKE, THAT'S WHY WINDOWS WAS A BIG THING IN CAMP. 'CAUSE THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT, THAT PEOPLE WANTED TO TALK ABOUT. YES. SO YEAH, WE CAN WRITE DOWN OUR, OUR, YOU KNOW, OUR HOT, HOT ITEMS. THAT'S, THAT'S GENERALLY DONE BY STAFF AND THERE. AND I KNOW THAT THERE'S A LOT OF, THERE ARE A LOT OF OTHER, LIKE, THERE'S LEGAL, THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE THAT HAVE TO BE IN THAT MEETING TO BE, YOU KNOW, OFFICIAL QUORUM MEETING. AND THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN THE CHALLENGE. I I NOW, I SATURDAY FROM HAPPEN OR WELL, IT'D HAS TO BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. I MEAN, IT, THERE'S, I MEAN, BECAUSE WE'VE DONE THESE BEFORE, THEY'RE MORE, IT COULD BE IN THE WEEK, IT COULD BE ON A SATURDAY. IT'S, IT'S THAT, IT'S JUST, THAT'S A QUESTION OF STAFF TIME. SO WE DID THE YEAH, WE DID, THAT WAS CAMP WE DID AT THE FIRE STATION THE FIRST TIME. YEAH. IT WAS OPEN VIRGINIA CAME, YEAH, OPEN PUBLIC. BUT I WOULD RATHER DOING MEETINGS ON SATURDAYS THROUGH, IN DIFFERENT DIVISIONS WITHIN THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT. SO SATURDAY'S NOT A PROBLEM. ALRIGHT. WELL, AND IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE HERE. I MEAN, WE CAN BE ANYWHERE. YEAH. OFTEN WE'RE NOT HERE. WE'RE LIKE AT THE FAR, WE'RE AT THE ONE OF THE CITY CAN BE ANYWHERE, LIKE AT BET'S HOUSE, . I WOULD LOVE TO HOPE BECAUSE, UM, OR BACK TO CHUCK'S HOUSE BECAUSE THEN, THEN IT'S NOT ABOUT MONEY. YOU KNOW, THEN, THEN YOU, YOU BRING YOUR OWN UH, WHATEVER AND, YOU KNOW, FOR A LUNCH BREAK AND THEN, THEN IT DOESN'T COST ANYTHING. AND IT'S JUST TRYING TO SCHEDULE THIS. AND I THINK WHAT WE'RE ALL SAYING IS IF WE CAN PICK DATES, SAY QUARTERLY, PICK 'EM NOW. EXACTLY. AND THEN EVERYBODY CAN PLAN FOR 'EM. IF YOU CAN BE HERE, YOU CAN BE THERE. YOU CAN BE THERE AND, AND YOU CAN PUT IN YOUR CALENDAR AND KNOW THAT ON X DATE MONTHS FROM NOW, IT CAN BE A MEETING AND WE CAN, UH, I ASSUME, UH, WITH THE CITY, I MEAN WE COULD ALSO STREAM THOSE. I MEAN WE COULD HAVE A ZOOM LINK IN ADDITION, SO IF A ENOUGH TO DO WELL. SO, UH, BUT I PREFER, I KNOW WHAT YOU RECORDED, BUT I KNOW, I DON'T KNOW. I MEAN, I, I START, I'M SORRY. START OVER AGAIN. I I I KNOW, I KNEW THE MEETING WOULD BE RECORDED. I BELIEVE I WELL WATCH. YOU JUST CAN'T PARTICIPATE. RIGHT. I THINK THAT THERE'S A DIRECTIVE FROM THE MAYOR THAT HE WANTS MEETINGS TO BE IN PERSON AND IF YOU, YOU, YOU CAN BE AT HOME AND LISTEN TO THE MEETING, BUT HE, HE WANTS TO HAVE FACE-TO-FACE. GOOD. UM, THAT, SO THAT, THAT, SO IS IT POSSIBLE THE NEXT MEETINGS 10 YEAR WE CAN HAVE SOME DATES YOUR SPEAKER AT LEAST LIKE MAY WHATEVER THAT DATE. I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ASKING. . OH YEAH. NO, YEAH, MR. CHAIR. I WOULD PREFER NOT TO HAVE THE MEETING ON SATURDAYS UNLESS THE STAFF GET PAID OVERTIME. , BECAUSE THEY'RE ALREADY OVERWORKED AS THEY ARE. SURE. AND, AND WE ARE DEMANDING A LOT OF THEM. AND THEN HAVE THEM COME ON SATURDAY, THAT'S ALL OF OUR MEETING ARE NOT ON SATURDAYS. THEY'VE ALSO BEEN ON FRIDAYS OR THURSDAY OR AFTERNOONS OR, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES WE'VE HAD LUNCH MEETINGS. WE, YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE THAT'S, SO WE'VE BEEN IN THE ANNEX LIKE, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN A, A DIFFERENT AREA LIKE DOWNSTAIRS. BUT, UM, I WANT THEM TO BE FRESH ON MONDAYS. ROMAN, I'M GONNA MOVE THIS ON TO, UH, ITEM D, HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICER REPORT. I WOULD JUST ASK YOU, COULD YOU TRY TO ADDRESS THE QUESTIONS FROM COMMISSIONER YAP. I KNOW ABOUT LIKE, GETTING THESE RECOMMENDATIONS OUT SOONER AND YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY RIGHT. DIFFERENT TIMES. HAPPY TO ADDRESS THE PAST. THEY, [04:10:01] THEY'VE BEEN, THEY WE HAVE GOT THEM, YOU KNOW, MAYBE TWO DAYS EARLIER. YEAH. BUT IT IS ALWAYS MORE RECENTLY, I WOULD SAY AT LEAST THE LAST YEAR, PRETTY MUCH THAT MORNING OF WHEN WE GET THAT THE FINAL WELL, HAPPY TO, HAPPY TO ADDRESS THAT. UM, JUST, UH, YEAH, SO IT KIND OF BEGINS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A 72 HOUR MARK THAT'S VERY CRITICAL TO ALL PUBLIC MEETINGS. RIGHT. AND SO, UM, I KNOW THE PREFERENCE, UH, FOR THAT LEGAL WOULD LIKE FOR NOT JUST THIS COMMISSION BUT PLANNING COMMISSION AS WELL, IS THAT WE HAVE THE AGENDA AND THE ITEMS POSTED, THE FINAL DRAFT OF THE ITEMS POSTED 72 HOURS AHEAD OF TIME. UM, AND I KNOW, UH, YOU KNOW, PRIOR TO COVID, ALL WE HAD TO DO TO MEET COMPLIANCE WITH THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT WAS TO POST A PAPER AGENDA ONLY DOWN AT THE, HERE AT CITY HALL ACROSS, OVER AT CITY HALL. SO WE WOULD POST THAT, THAT WAS REQUIRED BY PAPER THEN WITH THE TOOL OF THE PRESERVATION TRACKER UNDER THE OLD SYSTEM THE TEAM HAD GOT, WHICH HAD BEEN IN USE A LONG TIME. SO THE TEAM GOTTEN USED TO PUTTING THE, UH, FINAL DRAFT OF THE STAFF REPORT AVAILABLE TO YOU ON PRESERVATION TRACKER, WHERE YOU WOULD CLICK IN AND YOU COULD READ THOSE REPORTS THEN. SO I THINK WHAT WE'RE EXPERIENCING NOW IS JUST SORT OF, UH, THE FRUSTRATION OF A LOT OF THINGS SHIFTING. ONE COVID CAME IN AND EVEN THOUGH WE'VE DONE AWAY WITH ONLINE VIRTUAL MEETINGS, UH, THERE, THERE UNDER OUR, OUR DIRECTIVE FROM LEGAL IS THAT WE STILL MAINTAIN THE IDEA OF POSTING THOSE LINKS ON THE AGENDA, HAVING THE, THE AGENDA ITEMS, THE WHOLE REPORT UP. AND SO, UM, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THERE'S THE, THAT CREATED A LITTLE BIT OF A SHIFT. SO WE'RE ADJUSTING TO THAT. AND I'VE, I'VE TALKED TO MY TEAM ABOUT IT A A FEW TIMES LATELY, AND I KNOW KIM'S RECOMMENDED IT, THAT THE GOAL IS TO GET A FULL FINAL REPORT DONE, 72 HOURS AHEAD OF TIME. AND I, I THINK WE CAN ACCOMMODATE THAT AND ACCOMPLISH THAT PART OF THE FRUSTRATION YOU HAVE. IT FALLS TO ME AND I TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR IT. I HAVE A TENDENCY TO TRY TO ACCOMMODATE PEOPLE WHEN THEY'RE ADJUSTING. FOR EXAMPLE, ONE OF THE HOMES WAS, UM, THE HOME THAT, UH, THAT WE TALKED ABOUT THE, THE RELOCATING HOME. AND ALTHOUGH THAT WAS DEFERRED, UH, AND I DIDN'T SEE AN ISSUE WITH THE MOVEMENT OF THE HOME, THE ISSUE, THE DRAWINGS THAT WERE FINALLY PROVIDED TO ME, THEY ENDED UP IN THIS REPORT WHERE IT ENDED UP AS JUST A FULL CON A FULL APPROVAL WAS BECAUSE HE, WHEN I TALKED TO THE APPLICANT, HE SAID, I CAN GET YOU THOSE DRAWINGS. AND THE APPLICANTS ARE WORRIED ABOUT CONDITIONAL APPROVALS. THEY WANNA SEE A NICE, CLEAN, FULL APPROVAL. SO ON EVERY ONE OF THE ITEMS YOU LISTED, YOU, YOU CAN BET YOU WHAT'S HAPPENING BEHIND THE SCENES IS US TRYING TO GET AS CLEAN AS AN AGENDA BEFORE YOU AS POSSIBLE WITH AS FEW CONDITIONS AS POSSIBLE. RIGHT. THE CONDITIONS NOT ONLY CAN BE PROBLEMATIC, THEY CAN BE PROBLEMATIC IN A LOT OF WAYS, BUT IT'S JUST NICE IF WE HAVE THE ACTUAL DRAWING OF WHAT YOU'RE APPROVING AND WE BRING THAT TO YOU. THAT'S OUR GOAL. AND OUR GOAL NOW GOING FORWARD, IS JUST TO GET THAT DONE AHEAD OF AT THE SET, BUT BEFORE THE 72 HOUR MARK AND THEN STOP THE DISCUSSIONS. BUT WE'RE ALWAYS TRYING TO ACCOMMODATE ANY PERSON WALKING IN THE DOOR ANYTIME. AND I'VE ALSO BEEN VERY, UM, LOOSE WITH EVEN THE DEADLINE. SO THE DEADLINE COMES IN, IT'S, YOU KNOW, SAY FIVE O'CLOCK ON WHATEVER DATE BEFORE YOU'RE ON THE NEXT AGENDA. WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO CALL AND SAY, I COULDN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO UPLOAD, I COULDN'T USE YOUR SYSTEM. UM, AND ESPECIALLY NOW WITH THE BRAND NEW SYSTEM PRESERVATION TRACKER, WHICH NEEDS A LOT OF TWEAKING. IT'S THERE AND IT'S, IT'S KIND OF USEFUL. BUT WE ARE GONNA BE, AND WE ALREADY HAVE A LONG LIST OF, UM, OF CHANGES WE'RE ASKING FOR IN THAT TOOL TO MAKE IT BETTER, UH, MORE AUTOMATED AND, AND DO THINGS. RIGHT NOW IT DOESN'T, YOU KNOW, THE, THE ONE OR TWO PORTS YOU SAW, WE DROPPED THAT INTO WORD, IT GAVE US A DRAFT, BUT WE'RE DROPPING IT INTO WORD. UH, YOU ASKED ABOUT THE CONTEXT PHOTOS, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW THE CONTEXT PHOTOS LIVE IN THE CITY IN A, IN ON A DRIVE IN THE CITY, IN A FOLDER FOR EACH DISTRICT IN THE FUTURE THAT COULD BE ADDED TO THE LIST THAT WE ACCOMMODATE THOSE PHOTOS BEING ORCHESTRATED OR KEPT IN A DATABASE IN SUCH A WAY THAT THEY AUTOMATICALLY LINK RIGHT INTO THAT ADDRESS. SO RIGHT NOW, WHEN YOU GO INTO A NEW PRESERVATION TRACKER AND YOU PUT IN YOUR ADDRESS, THE TOOLS PRETTY RESPONSIVE. IT KNOWS WHETHER YOU'RE CONTRIBUTING OR NOT AND WHAT DISTRICT YOU'RE IN. AND IT'S DOING SOME THINGS FOR US AUTOMATICALLY, BUT WE'RE JUST HAVING SOME CHALLENGES THERE. SO IT'S JUST REALLY IN THE INTEREST OF SERVING PEOPLE. I, I THINK WE'VE BEEN A LITTLE TOO, THOSE CHANGES. I COULD HAVE LEFT THAT AS A CONDITIONAL APPROVAL AND THEN JUST BROUGHT IT TO YOU THAT WAY. AND SO WE WERE JUST TRYING TO MAKE IT A CLEANER REPORT BECAUSE WE HAD DRAWINGS THAT EXACTLY MATCHED THE, WHAT THEY WERE ASKING FOR. A LOT OF TIMES THE APPLICANTS WANNA DO THAT. THEY'RE LIKE, LET ME GIVE YOU THE DRAWING. EXACTLY. I WANT IT, I WANT IT TO GO THROUGH. SO THAT'S, I'M I'M GONNA, IT'S TROUBLED BY, IF WE HAVE TO POST SOMETHING AND HAVE IT BE READY FOR 72 HOURS, DOESN'T IT HAVE TO BE, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT. LIKE THIS CHANGING EVERYTHING [04:15:01] UP TO THE LAST MINUTE. RIGHT. I FEEL LIKE THAT GIVES A WEIRD MESSAGE TO PEOPLE THAT LIKE NOTHING REALLY MATTERS AND THEY CAN KEEP CHANGING STUFF. AND BEFORE IT USED TO BE LIKE, I HAD A PROJECT I SUBMITTED AT FIVE 30 AND THEY SAID NO, HOW TO BE AT FIVE AND THEY MADE, YOU MADE ME WAIT A MONTH. RIGHT. AND, AND SO I, I FEEL LIKE I KNOW IT'S LIKE I WAS MAD, BUT AT LEAST THE RULES WERE THE RULES. RIGHT. AND NOW EVERYTHING IS KIND OF LIKE BENDING AND TWISTING AROUND AND I, I REALLY DO THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD FOR EVERYONE TO HAVE SOME DISCIPLINE ON YOU SUBMIT IT FOR THREE WEEKS BEFORE WE LOOK AT IT. YOU DON'T GET TO KEEP CHANGING IT UP TO THE, TO THE MORNING OF THE MEETING, LIKE, LIKE THAT. AND I THINK THAT DOESN'T SEND A GOOD MESSAGE. IT'S NOT PROFESSIONAL. I MEAN IT'S, WE'RE, WE'RE WALKING A TIGHT ROPE, RIGHT? WE WANNA SERVE THE PUBLIC. WE WANNA GIVE THEM AS AS MUCH OPPORTUNITY TO, TO UM, YOU KNOW, TO SUBMIT SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA BE SUCCESSFUL. MM-HMM . UM, BUT I, I ALSO THINK I COULDN'T AGREE MORE WITH COMMISSIONER COUCH. I MEAN, THEY'RE BLAME IT ON US. LIKE, I MEAN THERE'S A, THERE'S A MUCH HIGHER, UH, UH, LIKELIHOOD THAT YOU'RE GONNA GET A DEFERRAL FOR A WHOLE NOTHER MONTH. MM-HMM . IF, IF WE'RE NOT ABLE TO PROCESS THE INFORMATION EVEN THE NIGHT BEFORE MM-HMM . UM, NOW GOING BACK, IT'S JUST, AND AND MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE AS A COMMISSION COULD, YOU KNOW, COULD, COULD COMMIT TO THAT. IF WE DON'T HAVE IT, WE'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO MAKE A DECISION. AND, AND WHAT PAINS ME, UH, IS ACTUALLY WE ARE ASKED NOT, WE CAN'T, NOT, CANNOT MAKE A DECISION IS ONE THING. WE ARE ASKED TO MAKE A DECISION ON CONSENT, WHICH WE HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN THE RECOMMENDATIONS OR THE WHATEVER YET. AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, TWO MINUTES TIME I'M SUPPOSED TO APPROVE EVERYTHING KIND OF THING. AND I'M DOING A DISSERVICE TO THE ORDINANCE ACTUALLY. AND, AND THE PUBLIC, WELL I OURSELVES CALL IT, IF I REMEMBER THOUGH CORRECTLY BEFORE COD, UH, AND UNDER THAT SYSTEM, THE VERY OFTEN BETWEEN THE 72 HOUR MARK AND THE ACTUAL MEETING, THERE WERE NO, THERE WERE OFTEN NO RECOMMENDATIONS ON THOSE STAFF REPORTS WHEN I ARRIVED. NONE. SO I THINK WHAT'S NEW IS YOU, YOU MIGHT HAVE GOTTEN USED TO THE IDEA THAT WE WERE VERY OFTEN, AND AT LEAST WE TRY TO DO THE SAME DAY WHERE WE'RE GIVING YOU WHAT OUR RECOMMENDATIONS ARE GONNA BE. I MEAN, WHEN I ARRIVED, THAT WASN'T THE NORM. THE NORM WAS, IT WAS IN TRACKER. AND, AND IF IT WAS THERE, WHATEVER DRAFT, THEY WEREN'T IN VERY, THEY WEREN'T IN TOP-NOTCH SHAPE WHEN I ARRIVED. AND I OFTEN DIDN'T SEE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS UNTIL WE CAME IN HERE. SO THERE'S, IT'S BEEN THIS BIG SHIFT, RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT. AND EVERYTHING. RIGHT, RIGHT. WE NEED YOUR MICS. IT'S STILL ON COMMISSIONER. YAP. YOUR MIC IS OFF. I THINK, SORRY, WHAT I WAS SAYING IS THAT WHEN YOU, WHEN WE, WHEN YOU FIRST CAME HERE, WE HAD NO STAFF ACTUALLY OR ONE. RIGHT. THAT WAS, THAT WAS THE EGYPTIAN, UH, GUY. OKAY. AND THEREFORE WE HAD TO DEAL WITH WHAT WE HAD TO DEAL WITH. RIGHT. YOU HAVE LIKE EIGHT STAFF RIGHT HERE. RIGHT, RIGHT. WE SHOULDN'T BE LIVING IN 2017 STANDARDS. RIGHT. WE SHOULD BE LIVING IN 20, 25 STANDARDS RIGHT NOW. THAT'S NOT AN EXCUSE OF HER. SORRY. WELL, I I'M NOT, I I SHOULDN'T BE SEEING THREE VERSIONS OF THE SAME THING IN UNDER 20, 24 TO 48 HOURS. THAT'S RIGHT. THAT'S RIGHT. WELL, I APPRE NO, I APPRECIATE, WE'LL, OUR GOAL IS TO GET IT UP 72 HOURS AND WE'LL DO THAT IN THE NEXT, GET THE FINAL ONE UP. BUT I WANT TO COME BACK TO THE IDEA THAT THE DEFERRAL AND THE EXCEPTIONS, OUR STAFF WRITES THOSE RULES AND APPLICANTS COME IN MANY SOCIOECONOMIC LEVELS AND IT'S A DIFFERENT THING WHEN SOMEONE'S CALLING IN AND THEY COULDN'T EVEN, UH, YOU KNOW, THE, WE, YOU KNOW, THAT WE HAVE A DIFFERENT, THE VERY DIFFERENT APPLICANTS COME FROM IT AND WE, AND I THINK BEING ACCOMMODATING WHEN THEY'RE TRYING TO GET SOMETHING IN, THEY'VE CALLED, WE HAVE A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS THAT PEOPLE COME TO US AND WE WANT THE PRESERVATION PROGRAM TO BE SEEN AS A POSITIVE FOR PEOPLE. WHICH I THINK IT IS LARGELY RECEIVED THAT WAY. UM, AND SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE REASON WE, WE WE LOOK AT TRY TO GET PEOPLE TO YEAH. BUT, BUT WE HAVE MEETINGS AT A SCHEDULED TIMES THAT WE, WE DO VOLUNTEER AND SPEND TIME TRYING TO GIVE OUR EXPERTISE TO, TO SAY IF THINGS ARE, ARE GOOD OR NOT. AND IF YOU'RE APPLYING FOR A PERMIT OR SOMETHING ELSE, THERE IS NO TIMELINE. YOU JUST DO WHATEVER. BUT, BUT THIS IS A DIFFERENT SITUATION AND IT'S ALMOST DISRESPECTFUL TO US AS COMMISSIONERS TO NOT KNOW WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE LOOKING AT. RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT. WELL THE 72 HOUR DRAFT, YOU KNOW, SURE. THERE'S, THERE'S PEOPLE THAT ARE POOR AND HAVE PROBLEMS AND STUFF, BUT THEY ALSO NEED TO FOLLOW THE RULES 'CAUSE THEY'RE THERE FOR A REASON. RIGHT. WELL AGAIN, SO LET'S GO BACK TO JUST WHAT'S POSTED BEFORE. AND THIS IS SOMETHING I'VE TALKED ABOUT WITH LEGAL, I MEAN, MINOR CHANGES BETWEEN THE 72 HOUR AND THE MEETING [04:20:01] ARE ALLOWED, BUT GENERALLY WHAT WE'VE DONE IS JUST LEFT THEM UP ONCE WE'VE HAD 'EM UP, WE'VE LEFT THEM UP. BUT, WE'LL, WE'LL, UH, WE'VE GOT TWO THINGS HAPPENING. ONE, WE'VE GOT THE PRESERVATION TRACKER TOOL NOW, WHICH ONCE IT'S FINAL IT WILL ACT LIKE THE OLD TRACKER. THERE'LL BE A FINAL REPORT IN THERE AND THERE'LL BE A FINAL REPORT ONLINE AT THE HOT LINK AS WELL. UM, AND, AND IT'LL WORK. AND I ALSO JUST FINALLY JUST WANNA SAY THANK YOU. I MEAN, YOU GUYS HAVE DONE OUTSTANDING JOBS, ESPECIALLY ON EXPIRED TERMS. I THINK IT WOULD, UH, IT'S BEEN DIFFICULT TO COME IN HERE AND, UM, YOU, WE ALL, ALL OF US, MYSELF INCLUDED, ARE ALWAYS LEARNING FROM, FROM THE KEEN ADVICE IN THE DIRECTION. SURE. THANK YOU. YEAH, ROMAN, I KNOW AS FAR AS THIS EARLIER CONVERSATION, I REMEMBER AT LEAST A TIME WHERE STAFF TRIED TO GET THE RECOMMENDATION OUT BY NOON THE DAY BEFORE WE MET. SO AT LEAST THAT AFTERNOON OR THAT EVENING. YEAH. WE, WE KNEW, UM, I DID HAVE A CHANCE TO TALK TO THE CHAIR OF THE BOARDS OF COMMISSION THIS WEEK AND I UNDERSTAND THAT MAY MAYBE OTHER OTHERS HAVE AS WELL, BUT I THINK SOME OF OUR, UM, SOME FOLKS MAY BE COMING UP FOR CITY COUNCIL REVIEW. HEY GUYS, YOU'RE GONNA, IN THE NEAR FUTURE, I DON'T KNOW A DATE YET, YOU HADN'T CALLED THE MEETING, YOU'RE GONNA BREAK CORN. BUT ALSO FILLING SOME OPEN SPOTS. AT LEAST, AT LEAST ONE OPEN SPOT THAT WE HAVE. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THINGS ARE MOVING FORWARD ON THAT AS WELL. TWO OPEN SPOTS. AND ANN COLLUM. SO I ONLY KNOW THE ONE FROM ANN COLLUM. I KNOW THERE WAS A RECOMMENDATION FROM THAT WAS A COUNCIL MEMBER POSITION THAT COUNCIL MEMBER MARTINEZ HAS NOMINATED SOMEONE. AND THAT, THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT PERSON IS, I DON'T KNOW THE OTHER POSITION, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS IT'S GONNA BE COMING UP IN THE NEAR FUTURE. I, THE, THE DATE'S NOT BEEN DETERMINED. SURE. BUT SOMETIMES THINGS HAPPEN, LIKE BIG ISSUES HAVE TO BE DEALT WITH AND SOMETIMES THESE THINGS GET PUSHED TO THE SIDE BIGGER THAN THIS. ONE MORE QUESTION. WE NEED TO, IF Y'ALL NEED TO HAVE THIS ON THE MICROPHONE, 'CAUSE THE MEETING IS STILL GOING, SO I FORGOT THE MEETING WAS STILL GOING. HE'S VERY CONSISTENT. YOU HAVE TO ADMIT, YOU HAVE TO GIVE HIM THE CREDIT. HE'S CONSISTENT. THANK YOU. TALKING GAME. UM, WOW, WHERE'D IT GO? UH, YEAH, WELL A COMMENT TO SOMETHING YOU JUST SAID ABOUT THE TWO POSITIONS AND ABOUT WHEN IT WILL, IT'LL HAPPEN ON CITY COUNCIL. WHEN IT GETS OH, WHEN, WHEN THEY LIKE THEY, THANK YOU. YEAH, NO, I'M CLEAR ON THAT. UM, I'M NOT GONNA REPEAT IT FOR HER. UM, ARE SOME OF US ON EXPIRED, UH, EXPIRED TERMS AT PO PRESENT? OKAY. I DIDN'T, I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT. THAT'S WHAT I HEARD YOU SAY. I JUST WANTED TO VERIFY. NOT ALL, BUT MANY. THANK YOU MR. CHAIR. THERE THERE ARE, I WANT TO CLARIFY SOMETHING TO SEE. THERE ARE FOUR POSITIONS THAT ARE CITIZEN REPS. OKAY. I THINK THE OTHERS ARE ALL PROFESSIONAL, UH, POSITIONS. MAYBE BECAUSE THEN THERE WERE SELECTED, THE FOUR CITIZEN REPS AS FAR AS I KNEW CAME FROM THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF COUNCILMEN COUNCIL MEMBERS. CORRECT. AND THEN THEY COME, BROUGHT IT UP TO THE CITY COUNCIL AND THEN THAT'S HOW I GOT ELECTED IN. CORRECT. SO WHEN, WHEN, UH, WHEN ROMAN ASKED ME TO APPLY, I CAN'T APPLY MY OWN BECAUSE I'M NOT APPLYING FOR A HISTORIAN POSITION OR A, YOU KNOW, COMMERCIAL, UH, UH, POSITION. I'M A CITIZEN REP. SO DOES THAT MEAN THAT I HAVE TO GO BACK TO A COUNCILMAN AND ASK THEM TO NOMINATE ME AGAIN? IS THAT HOW, HOW, HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO DO THIS NOW? I, I DON'T KNOW. I MEAN, THERE, THERE ARE NO TERM LIMITS HERE, BUT YOU KNOW, I KNOW AT LEAST ONE OF THE NEW POSITIONS THAT WILL BE FILLED WILL BE FILLED BY A NOMINATION FROM A COUNCIL MEMBER. I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE OTHER, UH, THE OTHER SPOT. BUT YES, I WILL GIVE YOU THE PHONE NUMBER OF THE DIRECTOR OF BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS AND YOU CAN CALL HER. HER NAME IS SCOUT AND SHE CAN ANSWER QUESTIONS. SHE'S THE DIRECTOR OF BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS FOR THE CITY OF HOUSTON. YOU MUST HAVE GOTTEN REAPPOINTED. I THINK YOU'VE BEEN REAPPOINTED MUST EXPIRED TERM BECAUSE ANYBODY, I MEAN, I GOT A CALL, I RECEIVED A CALL, I GOT A CALL. IT'S ODD AND EVEN I DIDN'T BECAUSE ADJOURN. OKAY. OKAY. MEETING'S ADJOURNED. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.