[Historic Appeals Board on July 14, 2025.]
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WELCOME.IT IS 9:00 AM ON MONDAY, JULY 14TH, 2025.
I AM JD BARTEL, CHAIR OF THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION APPEALS BOARD, AND I'M CALLING THIS MEETING TO ORDER.
THIS BOARD MEETING IS TAKING PLACE AT THE CITY HALL ANNEX AT 900 BAGBY.
ALTHOUGH THERE IS NO VIRTUAL PARTICIPATION OPTION, HOUSTON TELEVISION, HTV OFFERS VIEWING OPTIONS VIA THEIR SOCIAL MEDIA AND WEBPAGE BOARD MEMBERS, PLEASE UNMUTE YOURSELF AND RESPOND BY REPEATING YOUR NAME AND SAYING, PRESENT WHEN I CALL YOUR NAME.
LIBBY VIRA BLAND IS NOT PRESENT.
AND DIRECTOR? UM, DEPUTY ASSISTANT DIRECTOR ROBERT WILLIAMSON.
WE HAVE A QUORUM, UM, WAITING FOR, UH, LEGAL TO SHOW.
I'M GONNA DO MY REPORT FIRST, WHICH, SO I'M PULLING IT OUT OF ORDER, WHICH IS THE USUAL.
WE SHOW HISTORIC SITES HAVE BEEN LOST SINCE THE LAST MEETING OR IN THE RECENT HISTORY.
UH, YESTERDAY NEWS, UH, NEW AND THE DAY BEFORE NEWS REPORT WAS WERE FOR, UH, THE GRAND LODGE, THE GRAND CANYON LODGE ON THE NORTH RIM, BURNED, UH, ON THE 12TH OF THIS MONTH.
THESE ARE ALL HISTORIC SITES THAT HAVE BEEN DAMAGED OR LOST IN THE LAST, WITHIN THE RECENT TIME.
UH, I USUALLY FOCUS ON RESIDENTIAL 'CAUSE MOST OF OUR DISTRICTS ARE RESIDENTIAL AS WELL.
UH, THE WIDER WEATHERILL MANSION ON RITTENHOUSE SQUARE, ONE OF ONLY FIVE BUILDINGS, RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS LEFT ON RITTENHOUSE SQUARE IN PHILADELPHIA, BURNED ON JULY 4TH, THE ALEXANDER LYLE MANSION, WHICH WAS, UH, THE OLDEST, UH, FRAME STRUCTURE IN THE ST.
STILL STANDING, BURNED ON IN, UH, MAY OF THIS YEAR.
THE, UH, MORGAN MANNING HOUSE IN BRIDGEPORT, WHICH WAS A MUSEUM BURNED ON JANUARY 14TH.
AND THIS MONTH ON JULY 4TH, A HISTORIC BUILDING IN THE OLD SIX WARD.
ALSO, UH, BURNED A HISTORIC HOME IN JAMAICA, PLAIN BURNED.
THIS IS IN THE BOSTON METRO AREA.
THEN WE GET INTO FLOODS, FRANKFURT, KENTUCKY.
THE ENTIRE HISTORIC AREA OF FRANKFURT, KENTUCKY WAS DAMAGED BY FLOODS IN APRIL OF THIS YEAR.
UH, DRAIN OREGON WAS FLOODED BY A MANMADE, UH, ISSUE WITH A DAM, AND THAT WAS IN MARCH OF THIS YEAR.
THIS IS A GEORGE BARBER HOUSE, UH, THAT WE SEE IN THE UPPER CORNER.
RUIDOSO THIS MONTH HAD A FIRE.
AND THEN WE HAVE THE TEXAS FLOODS AS WELL.
ALL DAMAGE THAT HAVE POTENTIAL DAMAGING, UH, HISTORIC ASSETS IN THOSE AREAS.
UM, AS CHAIR, I'D LIKE TO COMMENT ON HOW THIS MEETING WILL BE CONDUCTED.
ALL SPEAKERS ARE ASKED TO FILL OUT A SPEAKER REQUEST FORM, TURN IT INTO THE FRONT DESK, AND EACH SPEAKER WILL BE HEARD IN PERSON WHEN THEY CALL ON YOU.
HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICE STAFF WILL OPEN A BRIEF INTRODUCTION TO THE APPEAL THAT IS BEFORE THE BOARD.
THE APPELLANT OR THEIR REPRESENTATIVE WILL BE NEXT AND WILL BE GIVEN A REASONABLE TIME TO MAKE YOUR PRESENTATION.
I WILL THEN CALL ON ANY SPEAKERS WHO WISH TO COMMENT.
WRITTEN COMMENTS WILL ALSO BE ENTERED INTO THE RECORD BY STAFF.
THE APPELLANT MAY HAVE TIME FOR REBUTTAL IF DESIRED.
FINALLY, BOARD MEMBERS MAY HAVE QUESTIONS FOR SPEAKERS, WHICH WILL NOT COUNT AGAINST THE TIME ALLOTTED FOR SPEAKING.
UH, DO WE HAVE A DIRECTOR'S REPORT? YES.
GOOD MORNING, CHAIR BARTEL COMMISSION MEMBERS AND THE MEMBERS OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC.
I'M ROBERT WILLIAMSON, ACTING SECRETARY OF THIS COMMISSION, AND DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF THE HOUSTON PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT.
WELCOME TO THE HISTORIC APPEALS BOARD.
I DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO REPORT TODAY, BUT AS ALWAYS, IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, YOU CAN CALL THE HOUSTON OFFICE OF PRESERVATION HOTLINE AT 8 3 2 3 9 3 6 5 5 6 OR VISIT OUR WEBSITE@HOUSTONPLANNING.COM.
THE PRIOR MEETING MINUTES WERE POSTED WITH THE AGENDA.
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A SECOND TO ACCEPT THESE MINUTES? HELL, YOUR MOST APPROVE THE MINUTES.YEAH, AN AYE PASSES UNANIMOUSLY.
WHERE'S THE AGENDA? UH, DO YOU HAVE THE AGENDA ON YOUR PAGE? 'CAUSE I'M LIKE NOW INTO DARK RANGE OF THIS THING.
TODAY WE ONLY HAVE ONE ITEM ON THE AGENDA, WHICH IS FOR, UH, 2 47 WEST 16TH STREET.
MAY I HAVE THE STAFF REPORT? GOOD MORNING CHAIR AND MEMBERS OF THE HPAB.
THIS IS STAFF MEMBER TERRENCE JACKSON.
AND TODAY I SUBMIT TO YOU ITEM TWO AT 2 4 7 WEST 16TH STREET, A CONTRIBUTING HOME LOCATED IN THE HOUSTON HEIGHTS WEST SUBDIVISION.
THE PROPERTY INCLUDES A CONTRIBUTING 1027 SQUARE FOOT, ONE STORY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE, SITUATED ON A 6,800 SQUARE FOOT INTERIOR LOT.
THE CONTRIBUTING B CONTRIBUTING BUNGALOW WAS BUILT CIRCA 1920.
THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING TO CONSTRUCT A TWO STORY ADDITION TO THE REAR OF THE CONTRIBUTING ONE STORY HOME.
THE PROJECT WAS SUBMITTED AS AN ADDITION WITH A DETACHED GARAGE, BUT BASED ON THE DRAWINGS AS SUBMITTED, STAFF USED THE GARAGE AS ATTACHED AT THE SECOND FLOOR.
THE OTHER THINGS THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING INCLUDE CONSTRUCT A TWO STORY ADDITION CONSISTING OF 750 SQUARE FEET AT THE FIRST FLOOR, 1,215 SQUARE FEET, A SECOND FLOOR ADDITION, AND A 501 SQUARE FOOT ATTACHED GARAGE.
THE EXISTING ONE 17 SIDING IS TO REMAIN RE AND BE REPAIRED AS NEEDED, AS WELL AS THE EXISTING WINDOWS INSTALLED.
FOUR INCH SE CEMENTITIOUS SIDING AT THE ADDITION CONSTRUCT A NEW ROOF, UM, WITH BOTH A SIX OVER 12 AND A SEVEN OVER 12 ROOF PITCH, THE MAXIMUM RIDGE HEIGHT, UH, BEING 29 FEET, ONE INCH AND 20 FEET, UH, MAXIMUM RIDGE HEIGHT.
UH, THEY ALSO PROPOSED TO CONSTRUCT A SIDE PORCH OF 27 FEET BY SEVEN FEET.
I MEAN 27 FEET AND SEVEN INCHES BY SEVEN FEET, FIVE INCHES WITH CONDITION SPACE ABOVE, AND CONSTRUCT A REAR BREEZEWAY OF 27 FEET, SIX INCHES BY FIVE FEET AND 10, 10 INCHES WITH CONDITION SPACE ABOVE.
THEY, IN ADDITION, THEY ARE PROPOSING TO CONSTRUCT THE ADDITION WITH BRACES AND VENT TO MATCH THE EXISTING CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE WITH AN ATTACHED GARAGE.
THE TOTAL SQUARE FOOTAGE IS 3,483 SQUARE FEET AT THE JUNE 5TH HHC MEETING STAFF RECOMMENDED THE DENIAL OF A COA BECAUSE THE GARAGE IS SEPARATED BY BREEZEWAY ON THE FIRST FLOOR, BUT IS ATTACHED ON THE SECOND FLOOR CHAIR AND MEMBERS OF THE H-A-P-A-B, I'M AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS.
THE OWNER, TRACY BEWARE, IS HERE TO SPEAK AS WELL.
THIS CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION.
I'D ACTUALLY SENT, UH, KIM AN EMAIL ABOUT IT, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF YOU ALL CONSIDERED IT.
I WAS LOOKING THROUGH THE PROPERTY RECORDS AND, UM, THE, UH, THE APPLICANT DOESN'T APPEAR AS THE OWNER UNTIL JUNE OF THIS YEAR, IS WHEN THE DEED WAS EXECUT IN HER FAVOR.
SO I'M NOT SURE, UH, IF, IF THAT'S AN ISSUE OR IF THAT WAS CONSIDERED, OR WHAT THE STORY WAS WITH THAT.
SO STAFF DID LOOK INTO THAT AND ACCORDING TO, UH, MY CONVERSATIONS WITH THE PRESERVATION OFFICER OF THE PROPERTY WAS PURCHASED, UM, DIRECTLY FROM THE OWNER WITH, I'M ASSUMING NO REAL ESTATE AGENT INVOLVED.
BUT THERE, THERE, THERE WAS A DEED IN FEBRUARY TO, UH, ANOTHER PERSON WITH A DEED OF TRUST, AND THEN THE DEED NOT FOR THE CURRENT APPLICANT UNTIL JUNE AFTER THE C OF A WAS ALREADY APPLIED FOR.
SO SHE WASN'T THE OWNER WHEN THE APPLICATION WAS MADE.
SO I JUST WAS WONDERING IF THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT HAD COME UP.
UM, THAT, THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE A QUESTION FOR LEGAL.
I HAVE NEVER FACED THAT, UH, BEFORE.
SO WE, WE, YOU'RE, THE DEED, THE RECORDED DEED IS NOT THIS OWNER AT THE TIME APPLICATION WAS MADE? YEAH,
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THAT'S, THAT'S CORRECT.IT WAS, UM, CHRISTOPHER FISHER, AND THEN THE, THE DEED FOR MS, UM, BULL WIRE WAS, UH, JUNE 18TH OF THIS YEAR.
SO, I MEAN, I, I ASSUME THEY'RE ALL, YOU KNOW, IT'S A AFFILIATED RELATED ENTERPRISE, MAYBE WITH THE SAME AGENT, BUT I JUST, I THINK IT'S, YOU KNOW, UH, SUPPOSED TO BE THE OWNER MAKING THE APPLICATION.
I JUST DIDN'T KNOW IF YOU ALL CONSIDERED THAT OR IF IT, IF IT AFFECTS THINGS.
AND MAYBE THE CURRENT OWNER CAN SPEAK TO WHETHER THERE'S SOME, UH, SOME FORM OF, UM, PERMISSION, IF YOU WILL, OR, UH, LEGITIMACY TO THAT RELATIONSHIP.
DID ANYONE ELSE HAVE QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? ONLY ONE.
I JUST WANT TO, THE WHOLE, UH, BASIS AND YOUR NUMBERS ON FAR IS BECAUSE YOU'RE CONSIDERING A GARAGE ATTACHED.
I'LL HAVE MORE QUESTIONS LATER, BUT JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT.
I, I HAVE TWO SPEAKERS SIGNED UP TO SPEAK AND I'M GONNA CALL 'EM IN THE ORDER OF WHICH THEY WERE HANDED TO ME.
SO, UH, THE FIRST ONE IS AALIYAH DEA, AND PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME INTO THE MIC BEFORE YOU START SPEAKING.
I'M REPRESENTING, UH, OUR CLIENT, TRACY
UM, WE WOULD LIKE TO START WITH WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF A DETACHED GARAGE? UH, IT'S BASICALLY TO STEP OUT OF THE GARAGE, THEN GO TO AN OUTDOOR SPACE, AND THEN GO INTO THE, UH, FAMILY RESIDENCE HOUSE.
UH, THERE'S NO WAY, UH, NO PLACE THAT I CAN FIND A DEFINITION IN THE GUIDELINES OF A DETACHED GARAGE, UM, IN THE, IN, IN IT.
UM, AND HOUSTON DOES SAY, UM, THAT THE DETACHED GARAGE IS BASICALLY TO STEP OUT TO AN OUTDOOR SPACE.
UM, YOUR QUESTION ABOUT THE SQUARE FOOTAGE, IF WE DO A DETACHED GARAGE, IF IT'S CONSIDERED A DETACHED GARAGE, WE DO COMPLY WITH ALL OF THE GUIDELINES AND REQUIREMENTS.
UH, CAN I PRESENT THIS DOCUMENT CAMERA? OH, SORRY.
COULD YOU ZOOM IN A LITTLE BIT ON THAT? THANK YOU.
SO, AS YOU CAN SEE HERE, UM, WE DO COMPLY WITH ALL THE RATIOS IF IT'S CONSIDERED AND ACCEPTED AS A DETACHED GARAGE.
UM, I DO HAVE THE DRAWINGS AS WELL TO SHOW HOW IT SEPARATED THE, ATTACH THAT DETACHED GARAGE FROM THE MAIN HOUSE.
SO AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE'S A BREEZEWAY IN BETWEEN THE, UH, GARAGE AND THE MAIN RESIDENCY.
I ALSO WANNA POINT OUT THAT THE, UH, ADDITION IS ALSO ON THE BACK.
WE'RE TRYING TO PRESERVE THE INTEGRITY AND EXISTING HOME AS IT IS.
EVERYTHING IS ON THE, IN THE REAR PART, WE'RE NOT TOUCHING THE HISTORIC HOUSE.
SO YOU CAN SEE THERE THE ROOF, IT'S ALL THE EXISTING HISTORIC HOME.
THIS IS THE EXISTING HOME STAIRS.
AND THIS IS THE NEW ADDITION PORTION.
UM, SO THIS IS THE NEW PORTION PROPOSED.
SO THIS IS THE BREEZEWAY QUESTION, JUST FOR CLARITY.
UM, ARE, ARE YOU THE ARCHITECT OR WITH THE ARCHITECTURAL FIRM ON THIS? YES.
UM, I DID ALL THE CALCULATIONS ON THE FARM MYSELF BASED ON YOUR ASSUMPTIONS.
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FOOT OF EXACTLY WHAT'S ALLOWED.SO, AND YOU HAVE THE INSETS, YOU'VE MET THE CRITERIA OF INDIVIDUAL SIDE AND CUMULATIVE SETBACKS, I ASSUME RIDGE HEIGHT AND THOSE SORT OF THINGS.
I DIDN'T DO A DEEP DIVE INTO THAT.
SO IT ALL COMES DOWN TO WHETHER THAT'S CONSIDERED AN ATTACH A BREEZEWAY, ATTACHES A GARAGE, AND, UM, THERE'S ALWAYS GONNA BE FIRST OF A KIND, AND THIS IS ONE OF THEM.
BUT I SEEM TO RECALL IN ALL OF THE YEARS INVOLVED WITH THE COMMISSION AND DESIGN DEVELOPMENT AND DESIGN GUIDELINES AND SO FORTH.
AND THE OTHER
AND I'VE KIND OF FELT LIKE IF YOU HAVE TO GO OUTDOORS TO GET FROM THE GARAGE TO THE HOUSE, IT IS DETACHED.
UM, YES, THERE IS SECOND FLOOR SPACE ABOVE THE GARAGE, BUT IT IS NOT ACCESSIBLE FROM THE GARAGE.
YOU HAVE TO GO INTO THE HOUSE, GO UP AND OVER.
SO THIS IS A, UH, A TOUGH ONE.
I THINK TO YOUR CREDIT, AS YOU MET ALL OF THE FLURY RATIO LOCK COVERAGE IN SETS WHERE IT ATTACHES, SO THE FOUR CORNERS OF THE ORIGINAL HOUSE ARE ALL PRESERVED.
THOSE ARE ALL THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN EMPHASIZED REPEATEDLY, UM, OVER ALL THE YEARS I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN IT.
ANYWAY, UM, I MAY HAVE OTHER QUESTIONS LATER, BUT THERE'S MORE OF A COMMENT, I GUESS, THAN A QUESTION.
I I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF RELATED TO THE, WHEN WE LOOK AT THE ELEVATIONS THAT THE BREEZEWAY IS NOT AS CLEAR CUT AS YOU'RE SAYING WITH THE, ON THE PLAN, BECAUSE THE BUILDING IS ON TOP OF IT.
THE, WHEN WE HAVE A, AND I'VE HAD TO EXPERIENCE THIS WITH MY OWN PROJECTS THAT I'VE DONE.
WHEN YOU HAVE A BACK PORCH AND YOU HAVE A SECOND FLOOR ON TOP OF THE BACK PORCH, CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW YOU COUNT FAR WHEN THAT REGARDS TO THAT, SINCE THIS IS SIM A SIMILAR SITUATION TO, IF YOU HAD A BACK PORCH AND YOU HAD A BUILDING SITTING ON TOP OF IT? YES.
THE, THIS ALL GOES BACK TO THE INTENT OF THE DESIGN GUIDELINES AND THE INTENT TO KEEP, UH, HAVE SMALLER MASSING, UH, AND, AND NOT OVERWHELM THE ORIGINAL BUILDING.
AND, AND OF COURSE, YOU GET A 528 SQUARE FOOT BONUS IF YOU DETACH, ACTUALLY FULLY DETACH A GARAGE APARTMENT OR A GARAGE.
SO WHAT HAPPENED FOR SOME PERIOD FOR, FOR, UH, THE BEGINNING OF COVID FOR SOME REASON, WE HAD, UH, SEVERAL MIGHT HAVE BEEN COINCIDENTAL APPLICATIONS THAT CAME THROUGH WITH LARGER AND LARGER REAR PORCHES WITH CONDITIONED SPACE ABOVE THEM.
AND SO THE, THE HHC, UH, YOU KNOW, IN DISCUSSIONS JUST WANTED TO RECOMMEND THAT WE AS STAFF CONSIDER IF THE REAR PORCH IS NOT AS LARGER THAN THE COMMON HISTORIC REAR PORCHES OF THE, OF THE HOUSES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THAT WE SHOULD CONSIDER THE SPACE ABOVE.
IF THERE'S CONDITION SPACE ABOVE THEM, THAT SHOULD BE INCLUDED IN FAR, I MEAN, YOU CAN HAVE A REASONABLE REAR PORCH.
A REAR PORCH THAT FITS WITHIN THE CONTEXT AREA THAT EXISTED IN THE PAST, BUT IF YOU'RE PUTTING A REAR PORCH THAT'S 15, 20 FEET ONE DIRECTION AND 10 20 THE OTHER DIRECTION, AND YOU'RE BUILDING A, A MASS ABOVE IT, THAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE JUST GOING AGAINST THE INTENT OF, OF THE DESIGN GUIDELINES.
AND SO THAT'S THE WAY WE PROCEED IT.
UH, AND WE'VE BEEN DOING THAT.
AND SO THAT QUESTION COULD BE RAISED.
IT'S, IT'S NOT AS, I DON'T KNOW THE SIZE OF THE PORCH, UM, BUT THAT COULD BE IT.
BUT THEN JUST ONE, SINCE I'M UP HERE INTO, UH, COMMISSIONER HELLER'S POINT, UM, AND I I, WE DID A QUICK AND CHECK RIGHT NOW ALL THROUGH THE CITY ORDINANCE, IT COULDN'T FIND A CLEAR DEFINITION OF DETACHED GARAGE.
UM, BUT FOR US, THIS IS, WE WOULD, IT WAS NEVER A QUESTION FOR ANYONE ON STAFF.
THIS WOULD BE WHAT WE WOULD CONSIDER AN ATTACHED GARAGE.
YEAH, THAT'S KIND OF MY QUESTION TOO, BUT I I, YOU SAY YOU DON'T REALLY HAVE A DEFINITION, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING, I GUESS, IS THAT THIS, YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK AT IT, IT APPEARS LIKE AN ATTACHED ADDITION.
THERE'S NO QUESTION IT'S ATTACHED AT THE ROOF.
UH, EVEN THE BREEZEWAY LOOKS LIKE IT'S GOT A DOOR IN FRONT OF IT.
IT'S RIGHT UP AGAINST IT, I THINK BY ANY COMMON SENSE.
BUT THE IDEA IS THAT THE GARAGE IS PERHAPS ARGUABLY DETACHED BECAUSE YOU CAN'T ACTUALLY ACCESS THE INTERIOR LIVING SPACE FROM THE GARAGE.
IS THAT, IS THAT THE ESSENCE OF THE ARGUMENT THERE? I DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW THIS WOULD BE DETACHED IN THE OTHER SENSE, BUT WE HAVE THE, THE, THIS IS UP FOR, FOR US COMMISSIONER'S, UP FOR THE APPLICANT FOR MAKING THAT CASE.
WE FEE, WE, WE DON'T SEE IT AT ALL.
I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND.
WELL, I GUESS I SHOULD ASK THE APPLICANT 'CAUSE I DON'T SEE IT EITHER IN MY WORK THAT I'VE HAD TO DO, NOT ONLY IN THE HEIGHTS, BUT OTHER AREAS.
SAY RIVER OAKS HAS A RIVER OAKS, ALSO
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A DETACHED GARAGE IS A FREE STANDING BUILDING THAT IS, IT CAN BE ATTACHED BY A BREEZEWAY, BUT THERE'S NOT A STRUCTURE CONNECTING IT.THE VERY MINUTE YOU ATTACH THE HOUSE AND THE EXTERIOR WALLS TO THAT LEVEL, IT'S ATTACHED IN EVERY, HIS, EVERY DISTRICT I'VE HAD INDEED RESTRICTED COMMUNITY, I'VE WORKED ON A DETACHED GARAGE, IS IS A FREESTANDING BUILDING ON ITS OWN, NOT ATTACHED TO A BUILDING WITH THE SIDEWALL ACTUALLY CONTINUOUS FROM THE GARAGE INTO THE BUILDING.
SO THERE'S NO DOORS TO THE BREEZEWAY.
YOU SEE THE DOORS IN THE ELEVATION, THAT'S ACTUALLY BREEZEWAY OF BOTH SIDES OF THE HOUSE.
YEAH, THERE COULD, THERE THERE COULD BE A WHITE BLOCK THERE.
THIS GARAGE THAT IS, THAT'S THE BREEZEWAY AND THAT IS ALL THE WAY WORK ON THE OTHER ELEVATION.
CAN YOU SHOW THE OTHER ELEVATION ON THE SIDE? THE RIGHT, THE OTHER, THERE'S LITERALLY WINDOWS OF THE, OF THE ADDITION OF THE HOUSE ON TOP OF THE PORTION.
BUT I'M TALKING ABOUT THE LEFT OF THE GARAGE DOOR, THAT OPENING.
THAT'S, WELL, I WILL JUST, I WILL JUST SAY IN OVER 700 HOUSES THAT I'VE DESIGNED, EVERY SINGLE DEED RESTRICTED COMMUNITY THAT I HAVE WORKED IN WOULD COUNT THAT AS ATTACHED.
BECAUSE THE BUILDING IS CONNECTED, THERE'S LITERAL SQUARE FOOTAGE ON TOP OF THE GARAGE.
IT'S NOT DETACHED JUST BY THE DEFINITION OF THE WORD ATTACHED VERSUS DETACHED.
THAT IS A CONTINUOUS CONNECTION OF THE HOUSE.
IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT THE DOORS DON'T CONNECT, IT'S THAT THE BUILDING IS ACTUALLY, THE MASS OF THE BUILDING IS ACTUALLY CONNECTED AND TOUCHED.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER SPEAKERS? YEAH, WE HAVE ONE MORE SPEAKER.
HI, I I NEED TO CALL YOU FIRST.
UH, YOU NEED TO STATE YOUR NAME INTO THE SPEAKER BEFORE YOU START SPEAKING.
MY NAME IS TRACY WARE AND I AM THE OWNER.
UM, I WAS PART OF THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE PURCHASING THE PROPERTY.
UM, AND, UH, CHRIS FISHER PURCHASED IT ORIGINALLY AND WE DO SOME JOINT VENTURES TOGETHER.
AND THEN I TOOK OVER OWNERSHIP PER DEED.
UM, IT WAS A 10 31 EX, UH, EXCHANGE SITUATION THAT HAD TO BE DELAYED UNTIL I COULD PURCHASE.
UM, SO HOPEFULLY THAT WON'T BE AN ISSUE.
SO, UM, THERE'S SO MANY DIFFERENT VIEWPOINTS ON DETACHED VERSUS ATTACHED.
AND SO I GO WITH, UM, HR.COM AND I ALSO NOT ONLY BUILD THESE HOUSES, BUT I ALSO SELL THEM.
AND SO WHEN YOU DISCLOSE WHAT A DETACHED VERSUS AN ATTACHED GARAGE ON YOUR SELLER'S DISCLOSURE, IT STATES YOU HAVE TO HAVE A SHARED WALL FOR IT TO BE CONSIDERED ATTACHED.
AND I'M VERY COGNIZANT OF SELLER'S DISCLOSURES BECAUSE YOU'RE LIABLE IF YOU, UH, IF, IF YOU DO NOT ACCURATELY STATE WHAT THE STRUCTURE IS.
SO, UM, I'M JUST GONNA QUOTE FROM HR.COM.
A DETACHED GARAGE IS SEPARATE FROM THE HOUSE, EVEN IF IT IS ATTACHED WITH A BREEZEWAY, WITH THE SAME ROOF LINE, YOU HAVE TO PHYSICALLY WALK OUT OF THE GARAGE TO THE HOME.
AN ATTACHED GARAGE IS ATTACHED TO THE HOUSE, YOU DRIVE IN YOUR GARAGE AND YOU HAVE ACCESS TO THE HOUSE THROUGH THE GARAGE, AND YOU HAVE A CHOICE TO CHOOSE ATTACHED VERSUS DETACHED.
AND SO WHEN YOU HAVE TO SELL THAT HOME, YOU SAY IT'S DETACHED.
IF YOU CANNOT PHYSICALLY WALK FROM THE GARAGE INTO THE HOUSE THAT IS IN ORDER TO SELL IT, UM, I'VE SET IN SO MANY OPEN HOUSES AND I'VE DONE, UM, WELL OVER 30 HOMES, BUILT, RESTORED, UM, BEEN A PART OF THE DESIGN.
I LOVE DOING THIS FINANCIALLY, IT'S FOOLISH, BUT I LOVE IT.
ANYWAY, IF, UM, ONE OF THE BIG COMPLAINTS A LOT OF THE POTENTIAL BUYERS HAVE IS, THIS IS A DETACHED GARAGE.
I WANNA BE ABLE TO WALK DIRECTLY FROM MY GARAGE INTO THE HOUSE.
AND IF YOU HAVE TO WALK OUTSIDE AND THEN COME IN, THAT IS DETACHED.
THAT IS, UM, ACCORDING TO MY UNDERSTANDING, AND I COMPLETELY RESPECT WHAT YOU SAY, BECAUSE I WAS LIKE, WOW, IT DOES HAVE CONNECTING ROOF.
DOES THAT MAKE IT DETACHED OR ATTACHED?
[00:25:01]
AND THERE ARE DEFINITELY PLENTY OF SCHOOLS OF THOUGHT.SO I'M ERRORING ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION ON WHEN I HAVE TO LIST THIS PROPERTY FOR SALE, I LEGALLY CANNOT SAY IT IS ATTACHED.
AND I WOULD BE IN THE SELLER'S DISCLOSURE COMMITTING FRAUD BY SAYING THAT.
SO I JUST WANNA KIND OF RELAY THAT INFORMATION FROM MORE OF A BUSINESS ASPECT OF IT AND LESS OF A DESIGN.
AND HOPEFULLY THAT'LL GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE AND A LITTLE MORE CLARITY ON DEFINITION.
THE, UM, GARAGE, BECAUSE YOU HAVE BUILDING ABOVE IT, UH, RESIDENTIAL SPACE ABOVE IT, YOU WOULD ALSO BE REQUIRED TO HAVE A SPECIAL SHEET ROCK AND EVERYTHING RELATED TO THE FIRE CODE.
SO THAT'S ANOTHER CONTINUATION OF, IN THE CASE OF MASSING FOR A HISTORIC DISTRICT.
I STILL SEE THIS AS AN ATTACHED ADDITION TO THE BUILDING.
I UNDERSTAND THE LEGALITY OF THE GARAGE BEING DETACHED FOR YOUR MARKETING.
HOWEVER, THE, IN THE MASSING OF THIS BUILDING, I STILL SEE THIS AS AN ATTACHED ADDITION TO THE BUILDING.
AND YOU DO SHARE WALLS BETWEEN THE GARAGE AND THE HOUSE.
THE ONLY LEGALITY DIFFERENCE IS THAT THERE'S NOT A DOOR THAT CONNECTS DIRECTLY INTO THE HOUSE.
I WAS GONNA LET YOU KNOW ALSO, UM, TWO, UH, PROJECTS PRIOR TO THIS ONE ARE EXACTLY THE SAME DESIGN AND BEEN APPROVED, AND THEN THAT WE HAVE DONE.
AND, UM, THEN ANOTHER ONE WAS APPROVED EXACT SAME SCENARIO IN 23.
AND WE HAVE AN EXAMPLE OF THOSE, UM, OF A BREEZEWAY IN THE HOUSE WAS THE GARAGE WAS CONSIDERED DETACHED AND IT WAS APPROVED.
SO WE WERE TRYING TO FOLLOW THE GUIDELINES THAT WE HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING FOR SEVERAL YEARS, SINCE 2018, I BELIEVE.
SO IT, WE DIDN'T FEEL LIKE WE WERE, UM, DOING SOMETHING ERRONEOUS.
WE THOUGHT WE WERE DOING WHAT WE WERE EXPECTED IS BASED UPON WHAT'S BEEN APPROVED IN THE RECENT HISTORY.
SO, UM, WE'RE, I, I, I DON'T FEEL LIKE WE'RE TRYING TO GET YOU TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
UM, I JUST FEEL LIKE MAYBE A PERCEPTION OF DETACHED VERSUS ATTACHED HAS CHANGED RECENTLY SINCE 23, I GUESS.
SO, UH, JUST WANTED TO KIND OF GIVE THAT PERSPECTIVE AS WELL.
UM, I APPRECIATE THAT, AND I UNDERSTAND YOU MADE THAT, YOU MADE THAT POINT TO THE HHC AND I DON'T KNOW IF, IF THEY DIDN'T HAVE THOSE OTHER PROJECTS HANDY, SO I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE WHAT MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE DISTINGUISHED THEM.
UM, SO, YOU KNOW, I'D BE HAPPY TO, TO LOOK AT THOSE AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND THAT BETTER.
UM, UM, THEY WERE SUBMITTED TO TERRANCE, BUT HE HAD, HE'S, HE LET US KNOW THAT HE DIDN'T WANNA PUT 'EM IN THE REPORT.
UM, BUT IT IS A KIND OF BROADER ISSUE.
YOU KNOW, EACH PROJECT IS GONNA BE INDIVIDUAL AND, UM, I KNOW IT'S SOMETIMES IT'S, IT'S HARD TO KNOW EXACTLY, UH, WHAT THE DIFFERENCE IS, BUT, AND, AND OFTEN IT'S JUST, IT'S A DIFFERENT PROPERTY, YOU KNOW, UH, OR SOMETHING ELSE HAS CHANGED.
UH, I HAD A MORE SPECIFIC QUESTION THOUGH.
'CAUSE YOU MENTIONED THAT A, UH, DETACHED GARAGE IS SOMETIMES A PROBLEM.
SELLING POINT IS NOT ALL THAT, UH, APPEALING.
SO WHY DID YOU MAKE THIS DETACHED? IT SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD'VE BEEN PRETTY EASY TO MAKE IT AN ATTACHED GARAGE.
WHY DID YOU NOT DESIGN IT THAT WAY? PERSONALLY, THAT'S WHAT I PREFER.
UM, ALSO, I LIKE THE BREEZEWAY OPTION, UM, MORE COVERED PORCH AREA.
UM, IT'S A PERSONAL DESIGN PREFERENCE THAT I LIKE.
I, I DON'T LIKE A DIRECT ENTRY FROM A GARAGE INTO A HOUSE, UM, FOR SAFETY REASONS.
UM, AESTHETICALLY IT'S JUST MY GIG, SO.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE, UH, SPEAKER? ARE WE GONNA SEE THIS OTHER PROJECT APPROVED IN 20 AND DID IT HAVE THE LIVING SPACE OVER? YES.
VIRTUALLY IDENTICAL TO THIS AT YES.
THE SECOND FLOOR ENCROACH OVER IN THE SIDE PORCH.
AND THIS WAS APPROVED IN 23, UM, DOCUMENT CAMERA.
IT'S PRETTY BUSY, BUT, UM, WE'RE MORE THAN HAPPY TO SHARE IT WITH YOU.
FOOTSTEPS GOING UP THE GARAGE IS RIGHT.
THAT'S THE BREEZEWAY WHERE SHE'S POINTING.
UM, I CAN HIGHLIGHT IT REALLY FAST RIGHT HERE.
SO, UM, AS YOU CAN SEE WHERE IT'S CIRCLED UNDERNEATH THOSE STAIRS IS THE BREEZEWAY AND IT
[00:30:01]
GOES TO A GARAGE.THERE IS, THIS IS THE WALL OF THE, THE NEW ADDITION.
THIS IS THE STAIRS, AND THEN THIS IS THE GARAGE ADDITION.
SO THERE'S NO DISTINGUISHING DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT DRIP BREEZEWAY.
IT HAS LIVING QUARTERS ABOVE IT, AND IT'S CONNECTED ON THE SECOND FLOOR RIGHT HERE.
UM, THERE IS NO TRANSITION TO WALK INTO IT AS OF ON THIS DESIGN.
NOT TO SAY THAT THE OWNER CAN'T MAKE THAT CHOICE IN THE FUTURE, BUT, UM, CAN I JUST, OH, GO AHEAD.
UM, IT DOESN'T READ THERE, BUT IT DOES SAY, UH, IN THE DARKER AREA, UM, RIGHT THERE, UM, THAT IT'S GONNA BE A FUTURE OPENING.
OH, SO IT IS STATED, I APOLOGIZE.
SO, UH, FUTURE OPENING, THIS IS CONNECTED BY BREEZEWAY BELOW, AND THE SECOND STORY IS CONNECTED.
SO AGAIN, WE FELT LIKE WE WERE DOING WHAT THE HISTORIC COMMISSION WOULD APPROVE.
I DO SEE ONE MAJOR DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THESE TWO, THOUGH THE WALL FOR THE GARAGE AND THE WALL OF THE HOUSE ARE PARALLEL.
THERE'S A DOUBLE WALL THERE IN THE DRAWING, AND THE, THE OFFICIAL RESIDENCE IS NOT ON TOP OF THE GARAGE.
THERE'S STILL TWO SEPARATE, THE BREEZEWAY BREAKS THE HOUSE AWAY FROM THE GARAGE.
THE HOUSE IS NOT SITTING ON TOP OF THE GARAGE.
AND THERE'S TWO OTHER PROJECTS THAT WERE APPROVED.
UM, THAT, UM, LET'S SEE, WHERE ARE WE AT? WHAT ONE IS THIS ONE? THREE, UH, 3 0 5 EAST FIFTH STREET.
AND THIS IS THE PLAN WE HAVE SUBMITTED IS ALMOST IDENTICAL TO THIS.
AND SO THE LIVING, THE CONNECTED LIVING STRUCTURE IS OVER THE NEW ADDITION, THE GARAGE.
AND ALSO, UM, THAT WAS FOR, LET'S SEE, 3 0 5, FIFTH, UH, I MEAN, I, I APPRECIATE YOU HAVING THESE, BUT YOU KNOW, WITHOUT SEEING THE ACTUAL C OF A, IT'S HARD TO COMPARE EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.
WE, WE SUBMITTED THEM, BUT HE DIDN'T WANNA INCLUDE IT IN THE REPORT, SO I APOLOGIZE.
WE'LL ASK HIM ABOUT THAT ON THIS ONE.
AGAIN, I SEE THAT THE, I SEE THE ADDITION OF THE HOUSE THAT'S GOING BACK, BUT IT DOESN'T APPEAR LIKE, AGAIN, IT'S SITTING OVER THE GARAGE DOOR.
IT FEELS LIKE IT'S OVER THE, OH, IT IS THE COVERED AREA IN FRONT DRAWING IT.
WE CAN SEE THAT SHOWS THAT SECOND FLOOR.
UM, IT WAS SUBMITTED, BUT I APOLOGIZE.
I'M, I'M JUST SAYING IN GENERAL THOUGH, YOU KNOW, WE, WE, WE DON'T OPERATE BASED ON WHAT HAPPENED IN A PREVIOUS PROJECT.
AND SURE THIS PROJECT IS, BUT I APPRECIATE THE INFORMATION.
I'M JUST SAYING IT'S NOT, WE USED IT AS OUR GO BY.
BECAUSE WE WANT, WE KNEW THAT THIS IS WHAT WAS APPROVED THREE TIMES PLUS PRIOR.
SO WE FELT LIKE WE WERE DOING WHAT WAS ACCEPTABLE.
AND SO THIS WAS THE, THIS WAS A LITTLE BIT OF A SHOCK TO US BECAUSE WE THOUGHT WE HIT EVERY, EVERY ONE OF 'EM AND WE WERE SURPRISED THAT THIS WAS REJECTED.
WE WE'RE HOPING THAT Y'ALL WOULD HAVE THESE IN YOUR REPORT.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE SPEAKER? I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF, BUT NO MORE FOR THE SPEAKER.
SO THE QUESTION I HAVE HAS TO DO WITH, UM, 591 SQUARE FEET, ADDITIONAL SQUARE FEET, BRINGING THE TOTAL TO 35 83.
IT SAYS 35 83 ON PAGE 11 OF 19.
BUT ANYWAY, SO MY QUESTION IS, YEAH, BECAUSE THAT'S THE FAR, THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT THE, YOU DON'T TAKE SECOND FLOOR SQUARE FOOTAGE TO APPLY TOWARDS LOT COVERAGE.
IT'S ONLY THE FOOTPRINT OF THE BUILDING, BUT IT, IT LUMPS IN COVERED BREEZEWAY AND PORCHES AS AN ADDITIONAL 591 SQUARE FEET.
WELL, THAT'S NOT FAR, THAT'S JUST LOT COVERAGE.
I MEAN YEAH, YOU'RE INCLUDING COVERED PORCHES AS LIVING SPACE.
[00:35:01]
TO THAT, THE, THE, WHAT WHAT'S BEING CALCULATED IS THE LIVING THE CONDITION SPACE ABOVE BASED ON WHAT, UM, MR. MCALLEN SAID, THIS IS TERRENCE JACKSON BY THE WAY.UM, WHICH MR. MCALLEN MENTIONED EARLIER, WHICH THERE WAS A POLICY WRITTEN BECAUSE DURING THE COVID ERA THERE WERE, UM, PORCHES THAT WERE LARGER THAN NORMAL PORCHES IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS.
NOW THAT IS ONLY HERE FOR, WELL, THAT WAS ONLY PUT IN THE REPORT FOR THE COMMISSION'S DISCUSSION.
THAT WAS NEVER BROUGHT UP BY STAFF AS FAR AS, UM, THAT CONDITION SPACE BEING ADDED TO FAR AT THAT MOMENT.
AND I DIDN'T GO BACK TO THE CRITERIA, BUT WASN'T THAT ONE OF THE BASIS OF THE, UH, RECOMMENDATION FOR DENIALS? IT EXCEEDED FOR, FOR ERROR RATIO, YES.
BECAUSE OF THE 501 SQUARE FEET OF THE GARAGE BEING ATTACHED TO, FROM STAFF'S POINT OF VIEW BEING ATTACHED TO THE HOME, WE HAVE TWO DIFFERENT ENTRANCE.
THERE'S 591 SQUARE FEET OF, UH, CONDITION SPACE OVER PORCHES.
WHEN WE TOOK THAT, WE WERE LOOKING TO BYPASS THAT AND LET THE HHC HAVE THAT CONVERSATION.
THERE WAS 501 SQUARE FEET FROM THE GARAGE, WHICH THEY EXEMPTED TO GIVE THEM THE 29 92.
WHEN YOU ADD THAT 501, YOU GET 3,483, WHICH IS WHAT WE TOOK TO THE COMMISSION AS BEING OVERFLOW.
BUT EVEN IN ATTACHED GARAGE, I'M GONNA USE IT A ONE STORE EXAMPLE.
THE GARAGE IS NOT CONSIDERED FLOOR AREA RATIO.
IT'S NOT LIVING SPACE OVER WHAT'S THE WORDING THERE? IF IT'S ATTACHED, IT'S, IT'S, IF IT'S ATTACHED, IT'S NOT NO LONGER EXEMPT FROM THE FAR.
SO YOU'RE CONSIDERING A GARAGE LIVING SPACE AND CALCULATING FLOOR AREA RATIO.
IT'S, IF IT'S ATTACHED THAT HAS RO ROMAN.
IF YOU'RE GONNA SPEAK, I NEED YOU TO ALSO USE THE SPEAKER.
UH, AND I'LL ASK STAFF, MY STAFF MEMBER, IF WE COULD BRING UP MAYBE JUST LOOKING IN THE HEIGHTS DOES, UH, THE PAGE OF THE HEIGHTS DESIGN GUIDELINES THAT HAS EXEMPTIONS AND INCLUSIONS OF THE, UM, BUT I I GOT YOU.
IF YOU, IF YOU, SO IF YOU BUILD A HOME IN THE HEIGHTS, UM, YOU HAVE A HOME IN THE HEIGHTS AND MAYBE YOU'RE BUILDING AN ADDITION, UM, LET'S DO IT A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY.
LET'S JUST SAY YOU HAVE AN EXISTING TRADITIONAL 1200 SQUARE, 1200 SQUARE FOOT BUNGALOW THAT EXISTS, AND YOU HAVE AN OLD DETACHED GARAGE IN THE BACK.
THAT'S JUST ONE STORY DETACHED.
IF YOU ATTACH THAT GARAGE, THEN THAT GARAGE LOSES ITS 528 SQUARE FOOT, UH, EXEMPTION AND BE, AND THAT 528 SQUARE FOOT OF THAT GARAGE HAS TO BE INCLUDED IN THE FULL FAR, BECAUSE THE INTENT IS THE, TO THE, THE INTENT WAS THE, A MASSIVE, THE GARAGE APARTMENT, NOT THE GARAGE ITSELF LIVING SPACE ABOVE IT IS EXEMPTED FROM FAR THE GARAGE.
WELL, THE CITY OF HOUSTON, CODE ENFORCEMENT DOES NOT CONSIDER GARAGES AS LIVING SPACE.
AND, UH, TO DO SO IN CALCULATE 'CAUSE MOST ALWAYS MY UNDERSTANDING, AND I DON'T HAVE THE DESIGN GUIDELINES SINGLE FOR CLARIFICATION, THAT, UM, IT'S LIVING SPACES.
I, I MEAN, IT'S GONNA BE 2 64 IS THE NUMBER.
SO IF WE GO, YOU CAN ZOOM IN WHERE IT SAYS A ONE STORY PROPOSED ATTACHED.
UH, CAN Y'ALL READ THAT? I CAN'T READ THIS.
SO IT'S A LITTLE, I WAS A LITTLE OFF THERE.
WELL, NOT THE 5 28 WHEN I STAND CORRECTED.
NOW WE ALSO JUST WANT TO POINT OUT, TERRANCE WANTED TO POINT OUT THAT FOR THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION TO WE, UM, JUST IN TERMS OF MOTIVATION OR WHATEVER, WE HAD TWO APPLICATIONS.
WE HAD AN APPLICATION FOR A GARAGE ON THIS, FOR THIS C OF A BEFORE YOU TODAY AT HHC, WE ACTUALLY HAD TWO APPLICATION NUMBERS.
ONE FOR THE ADDITION TO THE HOUSE AND ONE FOR THE GARAGE.
NOW, IT COULD BE THAT WE ASKED FOR THAT SECOND, BUT THAT'S WHAT WE DO WHEN WE HAVE A DETACHED, UM, GARAGE.
TERRENCE, CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHY WE WERE THINKING ON THAT? THE STAFF MEMBER, TERRENCE JACKSON HERE ORIGINALLY, IT WAS SUBMITTED BY THE AGENT AND THE APPLICANT AS A, AS TWO APPLICATIONS, AN APPLICATION FOR THE HOME AND AN APPLICATION FOR THE GARAGE, WHICH MEANS THAT SOMEONE, OR MAYBE MISTAKENLY SUBMITTED IT AS AN, AT A DETACHED GARAGE, BECAUSE IF THE GARAGE IS ATTACHED, YOU ONLY NEED TO SUBMIT ONE APPLICATION.
I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT WOULD LEGITIMATELY BE TWO SEPARATE APPLICATIONS, BECAUSE THE
[00:40:01]
GR THE ADDITION ON THE HOUSE COULD NOT STAND WITHOUT ITS CONNECTION TO THAT GARAGE.SO IT SHOULD HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ONE.
UM, I, I JUST WOULD, UH, AND I APPRECIATE Y'ALL TRYING TO PARSE WHAT THESE GUIDELINES MEAN IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE.
AND I THINK THOUGH, YOUR GENERAL APPROACH OF TRYING TO, UM, GET TO THE INTENT.
'CAUSE THE GUIDELINES AREN'T, THE ORDINANCE THE ORDINANCE TALKS ABOUT IN, IN NUMBER 10 HERE, UM, MUST BE COMPATIBLE WITH THE MASSING SIZE SCALE, UH, MATERIAL AND CHARACTER OF THE PROPERTY IN THE CONTEXT AREA.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO GIVE LIFE TO AND SPECIFICITY TO.
AND THE GUIDELINES WERE AN ATTEMPT TO DO THAT.
UM, UH, BUILDERS AND OWNERS, UM, UH, HISTORICALLY,
THE OBJECTIVE RULES AREN'T BUILT FOR EVERY POSSIBLE CONTINGENCY OR NOVELTY OR INGENUITY OF A, OF A ARCHITECT OR AN OWNER.
AND SO WHEN YOU HAVE SOMETHING, IT SEEMS TO BE STRETCHING WHAT THE IN INTENTION WAS AND THE PURPOSE, I THINK IT'S PERFECTLY APPROPRIATE TO GO BACK TO WHAT ACTUALLY THE, THE INTENTION IS HERE AND WHAT THE, WHAT THE ORDINANCE IS TO TRY TO, UM, UH, COLOR YOUR INTERPRETATION OF, OF HOW TO APPLY THE GUIDELINES IN A PARTICULAR CASE.
SO, I MEAN, I, I, I THINK, YOU KNOW, YOU GET BACK TO THE MASSING CHARACTER AND ALL THAT, AND, AND, UM, I JUST WANT, WANTED TO GO BACK AND PUT ON THE RECORD HERE.
I'VE GOT SOME STUFF FROM, UM, UH, THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR AND THE CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS, WHICH, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT HISTORIC PRESERVATION GENERALLY IN THE TAX INCENTIVE CONTEXT.
BUT WE ALL IN THE PRESERVATION COMMUNITY KIND OF USE THESE AS AS RULES BECAUSE THEY HAVE A LOT MORE PEOPLE LOOKING AT 'EM AND CONSIDERING THEM NATIONWIDE AND A LOT MORE STUFF WRITTEN ABOUT THEM.
SO IT, I JUST WANT TO KIND OF GIVE THE BROADER CONTEXT HERE, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO, IT'S NOT SO MUCH, UM, DEFINE WHAT THE GUIDELINES SAY.
IN PARTICULAR CASE, IT'S TRIED TO GIVE SPECIFICITY TO THIS BROAD PRINCIPLE IN THIS PART OF THE ORDINANCE.
SO IF YOU COULD LOOK AT FIRST THE DOCUMENT CAMERA.
SO, UH, THAT'S, LET'S SEE, IT'D BE DOWN AT THE VERY BOTTOM ON THE RIGHT OF THAT.
SO THAT'S, THIS IS PART NINE OF THIS PARTICULAR CFR.
IF YOU COULD FLIP IT OVER TO THE TOP.
THE, THE NEW WORK SHALL BE DIFFERENTIATED FROM THE OLD AND SHALL BE COMPATIBLE WITH THE MASSING SIZE, SCALE, AND ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES PROTECT THE HISTORIC INTEGRITY OF THE PROPERTY AND ITS ENVIRONMENT.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE, THE FEDERAL REGULATION.
AND THEN DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR HOPEFULLY HAS PREPARED A, UH, A BRIEF ON THE SUBJECT AND SOME MORE SPECIFIC.
SO IF YOU GO TO THAT PRESERVATION BRIEF, AND THIS ALSO GETS THE IDEA OF, YOU KNOW, IF YOU DON'T TOUCH THE HOUSE, YOU SHOULD BE GOOD.
IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER IF YOU, UH, LEAVE THE HISTORIC HOUSE TOTALLY INTACT OR NOT.
IF YOU DAMAGE THE CHARACTER IN THE CONTEXT BY A, AN UNSYMPATHETIC ADDITION, THAT VIOLATES THE ORDINANCE AS WELL.
SO, UM, SO THIS IS THE PRESERVATION BRIEF 14.
IT SAYS, YOU KNOW, IN THE PRESERVATION REHABILITATION PROGRAMS, THE FOCUS ON NEW ADDITIONS TO ENSURE THEY PRESERVE THE CHARACTER OF THIS HISTORIC BUILDING, NOT JUST THE HISTORIC MATERIAL, HISTORIC BUILDING, BUT THE CHARACTER.
AND I HAVE ANOTHER PAGE THERE.
UH, AND SO THIS IS, CAN YOU FLIP THE NEXT PAGE? OKAY.
SO, A NEW EDITION SHOULD ALWAYS BE SUBORDINATE TO THE HISTORIC BUILDING.
IT SHOULD NOT COMPETE IN SIZE, SCALE, OR DESIGN OF THE HISTORIC BUILDING.
IN ADDITION, THAT BEARS NO RELATIONSHIP TO THE PROPORTIONS AND MASSING OF THE HISTORIC BUILDING.
IN OTHER WORDS, ONE THAT OVERPOWERS THE HISTORIC FORM AND CHANGES THE SCALE WILL USUALLY COMPROMISE THE HISTORIC CHARACTER AS WELL.
NOW, TO SOME EXTENT, EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT A HARD AND FAST RULE, TO SOME EXTENT, THERE'S PREDICTABLE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE SIZE OF THE HISTORIC RESOURCE AND WHAT IS APPROPRIATE SIZE FOR A COMPATIBLE NEW ADDITION.
AND NOW, UH, YOU CAN FLIP THE NEXT ONE.
THE REASON WHY THE GUIDELINES HAVE AN FAR AT ALL IS BECAUSE THERE WAS A LOT OF FRUSTRATION AMONG BUILDERS TO NOT KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS.
YOU KNOW,
BUT, UH, HONESTLY, THE, THE CITY OF HOUSTON AND THE GUIDELINES GO FAR BEYOND WHAT, UH, STRICTLY HISTORIC PRESERVATION WOULD DO.
'CAUSE, UH, THE SECOND STORY ADDITIONS, THEY ALMOST ALL KIND OF OVERWHELM AND COMPETE WITH THE HISTORIC BUNGALOWS, BUT IT'S A POLICY DECISION WAS MADE BY THE STATE TO ALLOW THAT AND THE GUIDELINES TO ALLOW THAT UP TO A POINT.
UH, AND SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE FAR POINT.
SO IN INHERENT, ALL THE GUIDANCE OF THE CONCEPT ADDITION NEEDS TO BE SUBORDINATE TO HISTORIC
[00:45:01]
BUILDING AGAIN.AND IF WE GO NOW, I GUESS WE CAN SKIP THAT LAST PART IN THERE AND JUST GO TO THE NEXT DOCUMENT, WHICH MOST SPECIFICALLY TALKS ABOUT, UM, REAR ADDITION, UH, ADDITIONS TO THE REAR OF HISTORIC BUILDINGS.
UH, REAR ADDITIONS, LIKE ALL, UH, NEW ADDITIONS SHOULD BE SUBORDINATE TO THE ORIGINAL BUILDING A SIZE SCALE, AND MASSING AS WELL DESIGNED ADDITIONS THAT FEATURE A HIGHER ROOF LINE THAT EXTEND BEYOND THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING, BUT HAVE A SIGNIFICANTLY GREATER FOOTPRINT THAN THE ORIGINAL BUILDING ARE USUALLY NOT COMPATIBLE.
AND SO IT USUALLY VIOLATE SECTION 10 OF OUR ORDINANCE.
NOW, APPLICATION ONE HERE SHOWS YOU AN INCOMPATIBLE TREATMENT, AND IT ACTUALLY HAS A REAR ADDITION TO A ONE STORY BUNGALOW.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURE, UM, I KIND OF DRAW A HIGHLIGHT AROUND, I THINK MAY FLIP THE PAGE THERE UP AT THE TOP.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S, THERE'S AN EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING THAT'S INCOMPATIBLE AND THAT I DON'T THINK EVEN GOES ABOVE THE ROOF LINE.
IT'S JUST SO MUCH OF IT IS THE ADDITION THAT THEY CONSIDER THAT INCOMPATIBLE AND DETRIMENTAL TO THE CHARACTER OF THE HISTORIC BUILDING.
UM, AND THEY DESCRIBE IT HERE THAT THIS NEW ADDITION CONSTRUCTED ON THE REAR DOUBLE THE SIZE OF THE STRUCTURE AS IT EXISTED BEFORE THE REHABILITATION.
UM, THEY SAID THE ROOF LINE WAS GOOD.
THIS WAS NOT SUFFICIENT TO OVERCOME THE EFFECT OF AN ADDITION SUBSTANTIALLY MORE MASSIVE THAN THE ADDITIONS THAT WERE DEMOLISHED.
UH, THIS WORK COMPETES FOR ATTENTION WITH THIS TORK STRUCTURE.
TWITCH IS ATTACHED AND HAS SERIOUSLY IMPACTED THE PROPERTY'S HISTORIC CHARACTER.
NOW, NONE OF THIS IS DIRECTLY AUTHORITATIVE FOR THE CITY OF HOUSTON OR OUR LEGAL DEPARTMENT OR OUR ORDINANCE, BUT IT'S THE SAME LANGUAGE AND IT'S, IT EMBODIES THE SAME, UH, PURPOSE AND INTENT.
SO, UM, THE GUIDELINES WERE AN EFFORT TO, UH, GIVE BUILDERS SOME CERTAINTY ABOUT IT.
AND, AND BUILDERS AND ARCHITECTS, AS THEY WILL DO, WILL, WILL GET THE MAXIMUM OF WHAT THEY WANT WITHIN WHAT THEY PERCEIVE THE REGULATIONS TO BE.
AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT, BUT I'M SAYING WHEN YOU GET INTO AN AMBIGUOUS AREA, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO NEED TO FALL BACK, I BELIEVE, ON WHAT THE OVERALL INTENT AND PURPOSE OF THE ORDINANCE IS.
AND IT'S EMBODIED BY THIS LANGUAGE HERE.
AND, UH, SO, YOU KNOW, IF, IF, UM, IT'S A CLOSE CALL, I THINK YOU CAN LOOK AT IT AS A WHOLE AND SAY, IS THIS, IS THIS A ADDITION OVERPOWERING THE HISTORIC HOUSE? IS IT SUBORDINATE TO, IS IT MUCH LARGER THAN IF ANY OF THOSE THINGS KIND OF HAPPEN? I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE TO DENY THE APPLICATION.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? IS THERE A MOTION OF ACTION ON THIS ITEM? UH, I'LL MOVE TO, UM, UPHOLD THE DECISION AT THE HHC TO DENY THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS.
DO I HAVE A SECOND FOR THE MOTION? SECOND ADMINISTER MINSTER.
WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? STATE AYE.
MR. CHAIRMAN, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A, JUST AN OVER OVERARCHING COMMENT.
PART OF THE CONFUSION THAT I HAD IN READING THROUGH A STAFF REPORT, IT SEEMS LIKE THERE WAS SOME CONFUSION OR FLIPPING OR USE OF WORDS BETWEEN MAXIMUM LOCK COVERAGE VERSUS FAR.
AND IN THE STAFF REPORT UNDER MAXIMUM LOCK COVERAGE, THE WORDS FAR ARE BEING USED AND THEN LOCK COVERAGE WAS BEING USED UNDER FAR.
UH, WHAT I WOULD LIKE FOR US TO DO, IF WE COULD ON AN ONGOING BASIS, IS MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE SPECIFIC ABOUT WORDS AND THEN ALSO THAT WE KEEP MAXIMUM LOCK COVERAGE SEPARATE FROM FAR LIKE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE.
UH, NUMBER TWO IS, IT WAS DISAPPOINTING TO ME THAT IN STAFF REPORT, UH, REMEMBER I'M AN ENGINEER AND IT'S LIKE, SHOW YOUR WORK.
I WANNA SEE THE NUMBERS, I WANNA SEE WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND HOW YOU'RE COMING ABOUT WHAT YOUR CALCULATIONS AND YOUR OUTCOME.
AND THERE WASN'T ENOUGH INFORMATION, FOR EXAMPLE, WHAT THE SPEAKERS WERE PRESENTING TODAY, WHICH IS SIMILAR TO THE EXAMPLE THAT WAS IN THE HEIGHTS GUIDELINES, WAS VERY HELPFUL TO STEP YOU THROUGH EXACTLY WHAT THE THOUGHT PROCESS IS.
AND I WOULD LIKE FOR STAFF TO USE THAT SAME, UH, METHODOLOGY IN APPROACHING THESE CALCULATIONS.
SHOW YOUR WORK, LET'S SEE WHAT YOU'RE DOING.
SO IT'S EASIER TO DOUBLE CHECK WHETHER THAN MAKING ASSUMPTIONS OF WHAT YOU'RE DOING.
AND I STAFF MEMBER TERRANCE JACKSON WILL TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE MAXIMUM FLOOR AREA AND FAR BEING CONFUSING THAT, THAT WAS ALL ME.
BUT I DON'T BELIEVE THAT'S NECESSARY.
[00:50:01]
I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WITH ALL THE CHECKS AND BALANCES THAT WE TEND TO GO THROUGH THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT MISTAKEN UNLESS IT GETS OUT OF THE OFFICE, SO TO SPEAK.UH, THAT I WOULD HOPE THAT THINGS GET CAUGHT ON QA, QC.
AND IT'S, UM, JUST, LET'S JUST BE CAREFUL.
BECAUSE WHEN WE GET IN SITUATIONS LIKE WE HAVE BEEN TODAY AND THINGS ARE FLYING ALL OVER THE PLACE, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY WE'RE GETTING BACK TO NOT SO MUCH WHAT THE NUMBERS WERE, BUT WHAT THE INTENT WAS, THANK GOODNESS, IN MY OPINION, BECAUSE THE NUMBERS WERE KIND OF A, IT WAS A MESS.
AND I'D LIKE TO SEE IF WE COULD KEEP FROM DOING THAT IN THE FUTURE AS WE MOVE FORWARD.
'CAUSE THIS ISN'T THE LAST ONE OF THESE TYPE OF APPLICATIONS WE'LL HAVE.
I WOULD ALSO SAY, UH, ONE OF THE REASONS THAT WE HAVE THE APPEALS BOARD IS TO SORT OF DETERMINE WHERE WE HAVE SORT OF LITTLE WEAKNESSES IN COMMUNICATION.
SO I WOULD, I WOULD CHALLENGE STAFF TO COME UP WITH AN ACTUAL ACCEPTED DEFINITION FOR A DETACHED GARAGE SO THAT WE CAN NOT HAVE THIS ISSUE AS EASILY COME BEFORE US AGAIN.
SO WE HAVE MORE CHALLENGING ISSUES LIKE WINDOWS THAN GLEN AND GLENDALE COURT.
BUT THINGS THAT ARE DEFINITION RELATED, UH, IF THERE'S A WAY TO GET IT ON YOUR WEBSITE WHERE IT'S, UH, VERY CLEARLY DEFINED WHAT YOU EXPECT AND DEFINE AS A DETACHED GARAGE OR ATTACHED GARAGE, THAT WOULD MAKE LIFE EASIER IN THE FUTURE.
UH, MR. CHAIRMAN, I HAVE ONE OTHER COMMENT.
UH, IT'S ALWAYS HELPFUL FOR ME TO GO BACK TO THE DESIGN GUIDELINES AND PERHAPS I SHOULD JUST KEEP THOSE ON MY COMPUTER DESKTOP.
BUT WHEN I GO THROUGH THE, UH, PLANNING DEPARTMENT, UM, TABS IN RESEARCH, IT ONLY GIVES ME THE FIRST CHAPTER OF THE DESIGN GUIDELINES.
WHEREAS I HAD TO GO TO THE, UH, HISTORIC HEIGHTS WEBSITE IN ORDER TO GET THE FULL 222 PAGE DOCUMENT.
WHAT I WAS ABLE TO FIND THROUGH THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT TABS THAT I CLICKED ON.
REALLY? AND IT COULD JUST BE ME, IT COULD BE OPERATOR ERROR.
I WAS ONLY GETTING SOMETHING LIKE 28 PAGES.
CAN I TALK TO YOU ABOUT THAT? SURE.
DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER PUBLIC COMMENTS? UM, DO WE HAVE ANY COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC DOCUMENT CAMERA? SORRY.
UH, I WOULD LIKE TO ADD, UH, JUST TO THE COMMENT OF THE MASSES, UH, THAT THIS PROJECT ON 2 23, UH, 2023 THAT WAS APPROVED, IT'S MUCH MORE MASSIVE THAN WHAT WE WERE PROPOSING.
UM, CAN I SHOW YOU WHERE I QUICK, WE UNDERSTAND THERE MAY BE DIFFERENCES, BUT WHAT I WOULD SAY IS WE, IN ORDER TO DO A SPOT ON ANALYSIS, WE'D NEED TO KNOW WHAT THAT LOT SIZE IS, WHAT THE EXISTING CONS, WE'D NEED THE ELEVATIONS.
SO THERE, NONE OF THESE ARE APPLES TO APPLES.
SO, UM, WE DID LOOK FOR ONE THAT THE ORIGINAL HOUSE WAS THE SAME SIZE AND THE ORIGINAL, THE LOT IS SIMILAR.
UM, IT'S NOT THAT, AGAIN, WE'RE TRYING TO DO SOMETHING THAT'S DIFFERENT.
WE'RE TRYING TO JUST DEFINE THE GUIDELINES THAT ARE EXPECTED.
I, I UNDERSTAND ENTIRELY, AND I KNOW IT'S BEEN A FRUSTRATION FOR, FOR BUILDERS AND ARCHITECTS TO, WHEN THERE'S KIND OF A, WHAT APPEARS TO BE A INCONSISTENCY OF ANY KIND.
I JUST SAY THAT THIS PROBLEM COMES UP MOSTLY WHEN PEOPLE ARE GOING RIGHT TO THE EDGE OF WHAT'S ALLOWED.
AND, UM, THERE'S A VERY EASY WAY TO TO, TO NOT HAVE THIS PROBLEM, WHICH IS STAY WELL WITHIN THE POTENTIAL ENVELOPE.
I'LL ALSO SAY THERE HAVE BEEN SOME THINGS THAT HAVE PROVED THAT I WISH COULD BE TAKEN BACK, YOU KNOW, THAT AREN'T ALL THAT WONDERFUL.
SO IT'S NOT THAT EVERY TIME SOMETHING GOES THROUGH AND GETS APPROVED, THAT BECOMES THE NEW THROUGH THRESHOLD OF, OF WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN.
THAT SEEMS TO BE THE CASE THOUGH.
UM, WELL, I MEAN, I'VE SAID IN PLENTY, BUT I MEAN, I APPRECIATE THIS EFFORT.
I'M NOT TRYING TO BE CONTRARIAN AND BE, BE A BUILDER VERSUS HISTORIC.
I THIS IS REALLY JUST TO TRY TO, WE THOUGHT WE WERE DOING EVERYTHING
[00:55:01]
THAT WOULD BE APPROVED AND WE'RE A LITTLE STUNNED.BUT AGAIN, ALSO SOMETHING WHEN YOU GO IN, I WANNA MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ON THE DETACHED VERSUS ATTACHED.
UM, WHEN YOU FILL OUT A SELLER'S DISCLOSURE TO SELL YOUR PROPERTY, AND YOU MAKE A CLAIM THAT IT'S ONE THING OR ANOTHER, AND LET'S SAY YOU SAY IT'S ATTACHED AND IT IS ACCEPTED AS DETACHED, THAT'S COMMITTING FRAUD.
THAT'S NOT JUST A MARKETING THAT IS A LEGALITY.
THE SELLER'S DISCLOSURE IS WHAT CAN GET YOU IN A LOT OF TROUBLE IF YOU DO NOT ACCURATELY PORTRAY THE HOUSE.
SO WHEN YOU DO MAKE THESE DEFINITIONS DETACHED VERSUS ATTACHED, I WOULD STRONGLY CONSIDER THAT BECAUSE ACCORDING TO HAR DETACHED IS, EVEN IF IT HAS A BREEZEWAY AND A CONNECTING ROOF, AND JUST WHEN YOU'RE MAKING THESE GUIDELINES, PLEASE CONSIDER THOSE BECAUSE I DON'T WANT ANYONE TO RUN AFOUL, ESPECIALLY THE HOMEOWNER OR THE DESIGNER OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
WE ALL KNOW LITIGATION CAN GET UGLY.
SO PLEASE CONSIDER THAT WHEN YOU DO MAKE THESE GUIDELINES AND MAKE SURE IT'S IN LINE WITH THE SELLER'S DISCLOSURES ON H HR RI HAVE A COUPLE COMMENTS IN MM-HMM
CLOSING FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, UM, I DO SEE BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUE.
IF YOU KNOW OF DEFINITION OF A DETACHED VERSUS ATTACHED OH YEAH.
YOU HAVE TO GO OUTSIDE TO GET TO IT.
IF IT SHARES A COMMON WALL, UM, THIS ONE DOESN'T ON THE FIRST FLOOR, BUT IT CERTAINLY DOES ON THE SECOND FLOOR.
UM, BUT THAT, THAT'S JUST A ASIDE.
I DO, THERE WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS SAID BY THE APPLICANTS THAT I WANNA, THAT THEY WERE NOT ALLOWED TO SUBMIT THE PLANS OF THESE APPROVED PROJECTS TO THE COMMISSION.
AND WHICH WOULD'VE MADE IT A WHOLE LOT EASIER FOR US IN TERMS OF REFERENCE.
'CAUSE IT'S HARD TO LOOK ON A SCREEN AND NOTHING'S HIGHLIGHTED OF WHAT'S ORIGINAL AND WHAT'S NEW AND, AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.
AND I'M JUST, IF I HAVE TO LOOK AT PLANS A LITTLE BIT MORE THOROUGHLY, WE SUBMITTED THEM.
SO, BUT, UM, THEY DECIDED THEY DID NOT WANNA INCLUDE IT IN THE REPORT.
WE WERE LUCKY TO HAVE STAFF HERE, SO I I I WOULDN'T LET, I WOULD LIKE THEM TO SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.
ON THAT, UH, STAFF MEMBER TERRENCE JACKSON.
UM, UM, I DON'T WANT TO BE RUDE, BUT THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY TRUE.
UM, YES, THEY DID SUBMIT THE DRAWINGS TO US IN A PACKAGE WITH THE, UM, WITH THE FLOOR PLANS AND THE REASON WHY THEY ARE, UM, APPLYING FOR APPLYING FOR AN APPEALS.
SO IN THAT WE'RE, OUR RESPONSIBILITY IS TO TAKE THAT STATEMENT.
IT'S THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO PROVE THEIR CASE, AND IT'S OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO PROVE OUR CASE.
THE, THE, THE REPORT WAS WRITTEN BASED ON STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION AND STAFF'S VIEW OF THE PROJECT.
WHEN I SPOKE WITH, WELL, WHEN I EMAILED WITH THE AGENT, I EXPLAINED TO HER OR I LET HER KNOW, HEY, LISTEN, YOU KNOW, IT'S GONNA BE UP TO YOU TO PROVE YOUR CASE.
THERE'LL BE A DOCUMENT CAMERA SET UP THERE FOR YOU.
PLEASE PROVIDE ALL THESE DRAWINGS THAT YOU HAVE AND BRING THIS INFORMATION.
NOW, AS FAR AS THE HHC IS CONCERNED, UM, I MEAN, AGAIN, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S KIND OF LIKE THE SAME THING.
LIKE IF THEY HAVE A PRECEDENT THAT THEY WANT TO PRESENT, BECAUSE WE'RE NOT LOOKING FOR THAT PRECEDENT.
WE'RE LOOKING AT THE CURRENT PROJECT AS PRESENTED, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE REVIEWING IT OFF OF.
IF WE WERE TO TAKE WHAT WAS PRESENTED PREVIOUSLY, OR APPROVED PREVIOUSLY FOR ALL THE PROJECTS, THEN REPORTS WOULD PROBABLY NEVER GET DONE, OR WE'D NEVER GET THEM RIGHT.
OR WE'D HAVE PRECEDENCES THAT REALLY DIDN'T NECESSARILY APPLY TO CERTAIN PROJECTS.
SO I REALLY DON'T WANT TO BE HA I DON'T THINK IT'S NECESSARY TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, IF WE WERE TOLD OR WE WERE GIVEN SOME DOCUMENTS AND WE WERE, WE TOLD THEM THAT WE, NOT, THAT WE'RE NOT PUTTING IT IN OUR REPORT.
IT'S JUST NOT, THAT'S NOT, THAT DOESN'T HELP OUR CASE PUTTING THEIR CASE IN OUR REPORT.
IT JUST MAKES THE REPORT LONGER, ESPECIALLY IF THEY'RE MAKING THEIR CASE.
I, AND, UM, THAT, THAT SOUNDS, UH, ABOUT RIGHT.
THE, THE ONE THING I JUST WASN'T SURE ABOUT WAS IN THE HHC, THEY MENTIONED THESE PREVIOUS PROJECTS AND YOU ALL DIDN'T SEEM TO KNOW WHICH ONES THEY WERE, I GUESS.
AND SO, UH, JUST WANTED TO IDENTIFY 'EM BECAUSE ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, BRINGING ANOTHER ONE UP, WE SAW, WELL, THEY ACTUALLY HAD A DOUBLE WALL AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE A CONNECTION.
THEY HAD MAYBE A, A DESIGN NOTE SAYING
[01:00:01]
FUTURE CONNECTION POSSIBLE.AND MAYBE THAT'S THE POINT OF DISTINCTION.
SO WHETHER OR NOT IT PROVES THEIR CASE OR NOT AT LEAST, UH, OR IS EVEN OF PARTICULAR VALUE AS A PRECEDENT, WE CAN AT LEAST EXPLAIN AND UNDERSTAND AND HOPEFULLY MAKE IT, MAKE IT CLEARER.
LIKE PROBABLY WHAT WAS HAPPENING THERE, WHAT WAS HAPPENING HERE.
SO YEAH, I DON'T THINK IT'S YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO PULL THEIR EVIDENCE FORWARD, BUT IF YOU CAN HELP THEM IDENTIFY THE C OF A AND, YOU KNOW, POINT US IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, THAT SEEMS LIKE THAT WOULD'VE BEEN POSSIBLE.
AND WE, WE WILL MAKE NOTE OF THAT.
UM, AND WE LOOKED AT ALL THREE OF THE PROJECTS AND THEY DID NOT RELATE TO THIS ONE BECAUSE THERE WAS A STATEMENT MADE THAT THE EXACT SAME PLANS WERE SUBMITTED BEFORE SUBMITTED AND APPROVED BEFORE.
WELL, IF YOU LOOK AT THE PLANS, WHICH YOU'VE SEEN, THEY'RE NOT THE EXACT SAME PLANS.
THEY DIFFER VERY MUCH SO, SO, AND THEN WE ALSO LOOKED AT THE WHOLE 2020 THING, UM, WHEN, WHEN PEOPLE WERE GETTING PORCHES APPROVED AND THE POLICY WAS ASKED TO BE WRITTEN, TWO OF THOSE PROJECTS CAME IN 2020.
SO IT SEEMED A, IT DIDN'T SEEM RESPONSIBLE FOR US TO LOOK AT PROJECTS THAT WERE BEING APPROVED BACK WHEN THE TIME WHEN A POLICY WAS ASKED TO BE WRITTEN BECAUSE OF THE THINGS THAT WERE BEING DONE THAT DIDN'T SEEM FAIR TO THIS PROJECT STANDING ON ITS OWN.
IT JUST IS IN PART OF THE, KIND OF THE PUBLIC UNDERSTANDING OF THE ORDINANCE.
IT, IT COULD SOMETIMES BE HELPFUL TO DISTINGUISH AND EXPLAIN, YOU KNOW, HOW THINGS HAVE CHANGED AND WHAT, AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT.
WELL, WE'LL GET WITH ROMAN AND TALK ABOUT HOW WE MOVE FORWARD WITH, OKAY, THANK YOU.
YOU DO, WHEN SOMEONE PRESENTS YOU DOCUMENTS, YOU DO HAVE THEM IN THE FILE IN THE MEETING WHEN THE, WHEN THE COMMISSION MEETING'S HELD.
RIGHT? YOU HAVE THE DOCUMENTS THAT THEY PROVIDE.
BUT AGAIN, SO THEY'RE IN THIS SPACE, BUT YOU MAY NOT BE, THESE WEREN'T, BUT IT'S, IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THESE WEREN'T PRESENTED UNTIL THE COMMISSION MEETING.
SO WE DIDN'T, I DIDN'T HAVE THESE ADDRESSES.
NOW, WHEN I SPOKE WITH THE AGENT, SHE DID SAY, HEY, I, I HAVE THREE PROJECTS THAT WERE APPROVED PREVIOUSLY, AND I, THIS WAS A PHONE CONVERSATION.
I SAID, OKAY, PROVIDE THOSE ADDRESSES.
THEY CAME AT THE COMMISSION MEETING AND THEN THEY WERE SUBMITTED FOR THEIR, UH, REASON FOR APPEAL.
BUT MY, MY QUESTION IS JUST SO TO CLEAN UP SOME CONVERSATION IS YES, IF YOU'RE PRESENTED DOCUMENTS FROM THE APPLICANT, CORRECT? YOU KEEP THAT IN THE FILE YES.
WHEN YOU COME TO THE COMMISSION MEETING, WHETHER OR NOT IT'S IN, IN THE REPORT.
YOU HAVE A FILE THAT HAS THAT INFORMATION.
IF IT'S NECESSARY, IT CAN BE CALLED, YOU HAVE IT ON, YOU HAVE IT ON THE PREMISES AT THAT TIME.
I HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION, AND THIS IS REALLY FOR STAFF AND THE APPLICANTS.
UM, BECAUSE EIGHT YEARS ON THE COMMISSION AND HOWEVER LONG
AND, UM, I WANT TO ASK BOTH PARTIES HERE, AT WHAT POINT DID STAFF CONVEY TO THE APPLICANTS THAT THEY WERE GONNA CONSIDER THIS A, AN ATTACHED GARAGE AND LIKE TO SEE IF THEY WANNA MAKE ANY CHANGES OR DID THEY FIND OUT WHEN WE WERE RECOMMENDING YOU FOR DENIAL? NO, I, I MADE A PHONE CALL TO THE AGENT.
I ALSO PUT THIS IN A EMAIL THAT STAFF WAS, I ACTUALLY CALLED FIRST AND SAID STAFF WAS LEANING TOWARDS A DENIAL.
THAT'S WHEN THE CONVERSATION BETWEEN AALIYAH AND MYSELF WHEN SHE TOLD ME THAT THERE WERE THREE PROJECTS, I PUT IT IN AN EMAIL ONCE WE STAFF MET INTERNALLY TO DEVELOP OUR RECOMMENDATION, AND I PUT IT IN AN EMAIL SAYING THE STAFF IS GOING TO GO WITH A, UM, RECOMMENDATION OF A DENIAL.
I RECEIVED AN EMAIL BACK FROM THE AGENT STATING THAT, WELL, I HAVE A DESIGN THAT PULLS THIS BACK OFF OF THE BREEZEWAY.
AND THEN I'D SAY A FEW DAYS LATER, I RECEIVED AN EMAIL STATING THAT THE EIGHT D OWNER WOULD LIKE TO PROCEED FORWARD WITH THE DESIGN AS PRESENTED.
THE ONLY REASON I WAS ASKING IS I DO RECALL INSTANCES IN THE PAST, AND I'M GLAD IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE THAT'S HAPPENING, AT LEAST NOT IN THIS CASE, THAT PEOPLE SAY, I DIDN'T GET ANY FEEDBACK UNTIL I WAS TOLD, AND THIS MIGHT HAVE BEEN SIX, EIGHT YEARS AGO.
I'M JUST SAYING I HAVE HEARD THAT ARGUMENT BEFORE AND WHETHER IT WAS EVEN ACCURATE OR NOT, I DON'T KNOW.
I JUST WANT, WE HAVE TO HAVE AS MUCH COMMUNICATION YES, SIR.
SO THAT PEOPLE CAN GET THE MOST LIKELY POSITIVE OUTCOME.
AND I'M NOT SAYING YOU JUST LET ANYTHING GO, BUT JUST THAT THERE'S THAT COMMUNICATION BETWEEN A STAFF AND A PART.
UH, I HOPE YOUR PARKING METER'S NOT EXPIRING.
UH, THE, UH, I HAVE TO RESPECTFULLY
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DISAGREE, UH, WHEN INFORMATION'S PROVIDED BY AN APPLICANT THAT WE DON'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW IT IF DESIGNATED AS SUCH.FOR EXAMPLE, WE DO HAVE THE STAFF REPORT, WE HAVE THE INFORMATION THAT HAPPENED AT HAHC, BUT WE DON'T HAVE, YOU KNOW, NECESSARILY THE OTHER INFORMATION THAT CAN BE PRESENTED OR MAY BE PRESENTED AT A HEARING.
AND WE'RE HAVING TO MAKE A JUDGMENT OR ASSESSMENT ON SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE VERY LITTLE TIME TO BE ABLE TO LOOK AT AND WEIGH.
AND SO THEREFORE, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN MY PREFERENCE.
I CAN'T SPEAK TO LEGALITIES, BUT I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE PREFERENCE OF BEING ABLE TO MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION.
AND EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE A STAFF REPORT THAT'S, LET'S SAY A, I DON'T SEE THE HARM WHEN INFORMATION IS PROVIDED.
UH, THIS IS ALONG THE LINES OF LETTERS OF SUPPORT FROM NEIGHBORS.
WELL, IT'S IN THE STAFF REPORT.
IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY AGREE WITH THE STAFF REPORT, BUT IT IS SUPPORT INFORMATION THAT WE'RE MADE AWARE OF.
AND SO LIKEWISE IN THIS CASE, IT CERTAINLY WOULD'VE BEEN MY PREFERENCE.
I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS, BUT CERTAINLY MY PREFERENCE THAT WE HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION THAT IS, HAS BEEN MADE AVAILABLE FOR US TO LOOK AT IN ADVANCE OF US WALKING IN HERE TO ACTUALLY HAVE OUR PUBLIC HEARING.
SO, UM, IS IT, FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH, I MAY BE IN THE MINORITY ON THAT, BUT IT CERTAINLY, I JUST WANNA BE ABLE TO SPEAK MY MIND IN THAT REGARD.
STAFF PERSON, SAMANTHA DELEON.
I DO THE PRESENTATIONS FOR HPAB.
I'M NOT INVOLVED IN THIS PARTICULAR ASPECT, BUT I AM THE ONE THAT PUTS TOGETHER ALL OF THE REPORTS FOR THE PRESENTATION.
WE WERE RECENTLY TOLD BY KIM MICKELSON, WHO'S NOT HERE TODAY, UNFORTUNATELY, THAT STAFF REPORTS NEED TO BE FINAL THE WEEK OF COMMISSION.
SO TODAY AND AFTERWARDS THEY ARE NOT TO BE MESSED WITH.
SO I UNDERSTAND WE DID GET MORE INFORMATION LEGALLY WE CANNOT ADD IT TO THE STAFF REPORT.
CAN THIS BE ADDED TO THE HPAB REPORT? WE CAN DEFINITELY WORK ON THAT, BUT I JUST WANTED TO GO AHEAD AND SPEAK UP FOR MY TEAM TO LET THEM KNOW THAT WE WERE UNDER EXPLICIT ORDERS FROM LEGAL, THAT ONCE A STAFF REPORT HAS BEEN FINALIZED AND HAS BEEN POSTED ON THE WEBSITE, THAT IT CANNOT BE CHANGED.
SO I DO, I DO UNDERSTAND THAT.
WHAT I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO DO IS BEFORE WE HAVE ANOTHER HEARING, UH, WHICH WOULD BE AT LEAST A MONTH OFF, I GUESS, TALK WITH KIM AND LET KIM, YOU KNOW, SPEAK UP AND INFORM US IN A PUBLIC SESSION ON WHAT WE CAN AND CANNOT DO SINCE SHE'S REALLY, YOU KNOW, SUPPOSED TO BE, SHE'S THERE TO KEEP US ON THE STRAIGHT AND NARROW, MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T, YOU KNOW, GO OFF INTO A DITCH SOMEWHERE.
BUT THAT'D BE GREATLY APPRECIATED IF YOU WOULD.
DEFINITELY, I WILL GET WITH HER FOR THAT.
YEAH, I JUST, I, I TRIED TO, I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS.
I JUST, YOU KNOW, DON'T WANT KIM ON ME
SO, UH, BUT WE DO HAVE, I GUESS, A PROCEDURE FOR OUR HPAB, UH, REPORTS, AND WE CAN DEFINITELY LOOK THAT OVER AS A TEAM AND WITH KIM TO MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT CAN WE DO NEXT TIME TO HELP CIRCUMVENT THIS.
BUT I JUST WANTED TO SPEAK UP FOR TERRANCE ON THAT.
EVEN IF HE WERE TO TRY TO ADD IT TO HIS STAFF REPORT, I WOULD'VE SAID NO, I WOULD'VE NOT PUT IT IN THIS PRESENTATION.
I WOULD'VE NOT PUT IT ON TO THE IPADS.
SO I JUST WANTED JUST TO SPEAK UP FOR MY TEAM, UH, 'CAUSE I DO BELIEVE WE DO DO GREAT WORK AND WE'RE ALWAYS OPEN TO, YOU KNOW, DOING THINGS BETTER AND, YOU KNOW, FOR EVERYONE, NOT JUST COMMISSIONERS FOR OUR APPLICANTS AS WELL.
SO THANK YOU FOR THE FEEDBACK.
SORRY, JUST WANTED TO ADD, SO AFTER THE, UH, H UM, THE HCC MEETING, UH, WE HAVE, AND IT'S DENIED.
WE ONLY HAVE SEVEN DAYS TO PRESENT OUR APPEAL.
AND YOU, EXCUSE ME, YOU CAN ONLY, UH, SHOW HERE IN, UH, IN THE APPEAL MEETING WHAT YOU, UH, SUBMIT AND SEND TO THAT APPEAL PROCESS, I GUESS TO SUBMIT TO THE APPEAL.
SO ALL THIS DOCUMENTATION, I SENT IT PROBABLY LIKE THREE WEEKS AGO BECAUSE WE ONLY HAVE SEVEN DAYS AFTER THE H UH, HAC MEETING.
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IT WAS PART MM-HMMOTHERWISE PROVIDED THE PROCESS.
SAMANTHA, IT DOES SAY IN THE ORDINANCE THAT THEY HAVE SEVEN DAYS TO PROVIDE A REASON FOR THEIR APPEAL.
IT DOES NOT SAY THAT THEY NEED TO HAVE ALL DOCUMENTATION SUBMITTED TO OUR OFFICE BY THOSE SEVEN DAYS.
JUST IN, IN THE WRITING IT DOES SAY THAT THEIR REASON FOR THIS, FOR THE DENIAL NEEDS OR FOR THE APPEAL NEEDS TO BE SUBMITTED AND HAS TO BE DONE IN A CERTAIN WAY.
SO, BUT ANY DOCUMENTATION WOULD HAVE TO BE SUBMITTED CERTAIN NUMBER OF DAYS PRIOR TO THE MEETING OF THE APPEALS BOARD.
CORRECT? UM, WE DON'T HAVE THAT.
IS THERE ANYTHING THAT SPELLS THAT OUT? NO.
WE HAVE MADE A DECISION INTERNALLY.
'CAUSE SINCE I'M THE ONE GOING FORWARD, MAKING ALL THE, YOU KNOW, PRESENTATIONS AND ALL THAT STUFF, WE HAVE IT WHERE FOR REGULAR COMMISSION THE WEDNESDAY BEFORE WE WOULD LIKE NO OTHER DOCUMENTS PRETTY MUCH HAVE IT FINALIZED.
SO NOW FOR HAC THIS WEEK, ANYONE WHO'S GONNA SEND US ANY FURTHER PLANS, WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE EVERYTHING FINALIZED BY TODAY AT TWO 30 FOR THURSDAY.
SO WE ARE WORKING ON HAVING LIKE A, A DEADLINE RIGHT.
AND WE PROBABLY NEED TO GO AHEAD AND PUT THAT ONLINE AND DISCUSS WITH KIM HOW TO DO THAT.
SO MY FOURTH FINAL QUESTION, UH,
SO SOMETIMES THE NEXT UPCOMING DATE THAT WE HAVE FOR THE APPEAL FALLS VERY EASILY AND THOSE 45 DAYS AND SOMETIMES THE SECOND POSSIBLE MEETING DATE ALSO FALLS IN THERE.
RECENTLY, IT HASN'T BEEN THAT CONCISE, RIGHT? IT'S BEEN, WE HAVE ONE DATE AND IF NOT, IT'S HARDER TO GET EVERYONE TOGETHER.
UH, BUT YES, THEY HAVE 45 DAYS TO BE HEARD MY MIC.
I I, I'VE GOT ONE MORE FINAL QUESTION NOW TOO.
UM, WE, WE DO SEE LIKE THE GROUNDS FOR THE APPEAL AND THEIR STATEMENT OF WHATEVER IN THE PACKET.
I BELIEVE IN TIMES PAST WE'VE SEEN ADDITIONAL MATERIAL THAT THE APPELLANT APPLICANT HAS SUBMITTED, BUT I DON'T, WHAT WAS THE REASON WE DIDN'T SEE ANY ADDITIONAL MATERIAL FOR THEM IN OUR, IN, IN OUR PRESENTATION.
IF, IF THEY SUBMITTED ALONG WITH THE GROUNDS FOR APPEAL, THEN IT WAS IN THE HANDS FOR YOU ALL TO INCLUDE IT.
BUT IS, I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED THERE.
WAS IT, I GUESS, I MEAN I CAN'T SPEAK FOR TERRANCE, BUT I DO KNOW THAT FOR THE APPEALS REPORT WE HAVE ONLY SO MANY THINGS THAT WE CAN ADD, RIGHT? WE'RE SUPPOSED TO ADD THE UNOFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT, WE ADD A COPY OF THE STAFF REPORT, AND THEN WE USUALLY INCLUDE ANY OTHER SUPPORTING DOCUMENTS THAT WERE INCLUDED IN THE STAFF REPORT.
SO ANY, YOU KNOW, LETTERS OF APPEALS, COMMENTS, YOU KNOW, THINGS LIKE THAT.
UM, I'M NOT SURE HONESTLY IN MY TWO YEARS OF BEING HERE, IF WE'VE HAD NECESSARILY A SECTION FOR APPLICANT PROVIDED DOCUMENTS OKAY.
I MAY BE MISREMEMBERING THAT, SO YEAH.
BUT I MEAN, I COULD BE WRONG ON THAT AS WELL.
BUT JUST OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, I CAN'T THINK OF ONE.
BUT WE CAN DEFINITELY GET WITH KIM TO MAKE SURE GOING FORWARD, WHAT IS THE PROCEDURE AND WHAT ARE WE ALLOWED TO INCLUDE IN THE REPORT VERSUS NOT, BECAUSE KIM HAS KIND OF MADE IT CLEAR TO US YEAH.
THAT WE'RE JUST KIND OF REVIEWING WHAT WAS PREVIOUSLY STATED.
THAT THAT THAT'S THE OTHER ISSUE TOO IS THAT WE'VE, WE'VE ALWAYS KIND OF CONSIDERED THIS, YOU GOTTA KIND OF CLOSE THE RECORD AT SOME POINT.
AND JUST, AND WE'RE GONNA EVALUATING THEIR DECISION.
WE'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT NEW INFORMATION THAT MAY MM-HMM
CALL THEIR, I MEAN THAT'S NOT REALLY A FAIR PROCESS 'CAUSE THEY SHOULD BE LOOKING AT IT IN THE FIRST INSTANCE AND GATHERING AS MUCH INFORMATION AS POSSIBLE.
UH, BUT YOU KNOW, IF, BUT PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS WELCOME TO BRING UP WHATEVER THEY WANT AT THE HEARING.
SO THAT'S MAYBE THE PROCESS HERE, BUT IF OBVIOUSLY THE APPLICANT IS, UH, FELT FRUSTRATED BY THAT PROCESS, SO THERE'S SOME COMMUNICATION FAILURE IF NOTHING ELSE.
AND I DO ALSO WANNA REITERATE, I DON'T THINK THAT MADE A DIFFERENCE IN, IN MY DECISION AT ALL, WHETHER OR NOT WE HAD THE MATERIAL EARLIER OR LATER.
WE'RE JUST MAKING A PUBLIC COMMENT ABOUT THE PROCESS GOING FORWARD.
AND I DO BELIEVE IT'S ALSO IN THE ORDINANCE THAT IT IS UP TO THE APPLICANT WHO HAS THE DUTY TO, YOU KNOW, PRESENT THEIR CASE.
YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE, YOU KNOW, THE BURDEN.
THEY HAVE A BURDEN TO BASICALLY PROVE THAT THAT'S THAT'S RIGHT.
SO IT'S KIND OF HARD BECAUSE WE HAVE DONE THAT IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, WHERE WE DO ALL OF THAT AND THEN WE GET TOLD BY LEGAL OR PAY Y'ALL LIKE, HEY, THAT'S GREAT.
YOU'RE, YOU'RE DOING TOO MUCH.
RIGHT? BUT I DEFINITELY THINK THIS IS A GOOD, GOOD FEEDBACK AND A GOOD STARTING POINT FOR US TO GET WITH KIM TO GO FORWARD.
WHAT CAN WE INCLUDE IN THESE DOCUMENTS,
[01:15:01]
IF ANYTHING? CAN WE INCLUDE SOMETHING ON OUR WEBSITE? DO WE HAVE TO SEND LIKE A DISCLAIMER TO OUR APPLICANTS? WHAT CAN WE DO TO KIND OF BRIDGE THAT GAP? SO I THINK THAT'S A GOOD CONVERSATION STARTER FOR US.AND THEN NOW I'M GONNA TURN OFF THE MICROPHONE AND, AND LEAVE.
OUR MAIN JOB IS TO REVIEW THE DECISION BY THE COMMISSION TO DETERMINE IF THEY FOLLOWED THE GUIDELINES AND THAT THEIR DECISION IS UPHOLDABLE BY THE ORDINANCE AND THE DOCUMENTS THAT ARE PROVIDED FUNCTIONALLY.
UH, SO NEW INFORMATION IS HARD FOR US TO GET BECAUSE WE WOULD BE REVIEWING MATERIAL THAT THE HHC DIDN'T HAVE FOR THEIR DETERMINATION.
UM, WITH EVERYBODY'S MICS TURNING OFF, I AM GOING TO CLOSE TODAY'S MEETING.