* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [Houston Archaeological and Historical Commission on August 15, 2024.] [00:00:15] YOU CAN ALSO VIEW THE MEETING ON HTV AND ON THEIR SOCIAL MEDIA OUTLETS. THE AGENDA IS AVAILABLE@HOUSTONPLANNING.COM, AND IT INCLUDES PUBLIC PARTICIPATION RULES. UM, I GUESS FIRST OFF, I'D LIKE TO TAKE A MOMENT AND RECOGNIZE OUR NEW SECRETARY, DIRECTOR VON TRAN. UM, I KNOW HER FROM THE ARCHITECTURE SCHOOL WHERE SHE AND I WENT TO SCHOOL TOGETHER. WE'RE DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT CLASSES, BUT ONLY ONE YEAR APART. UM, AND SHE'S A, A NEW LEADER THAT'S BEEN SENT TO US AND WE LIKE WHAT TO WELCOME HER. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. AND IT'S SO WONDERFUL TO BE BACK AND, UH, SITTING HERE NEXT TO YOU. I'VE HAD MANY WONDERFUL MEMORIES OF THE TIME THAT WE WORKED TOGETHER IN THE COLLEGE OF ARCHITECTURE, AND, UH, IT IS NOTHING MORE THAN THRILLING TO BE SERVING AND SITTING NEXT TO YOU IN THIS POSITION. AND, UH, GOOD AFTERNOON TO THE HISTORIC COMMISSION MEMBERS AS WELL. UM, AGAIN, MY NAME IS VON TRAN, SECRETARY OF THIS COMMISSION AND NEW DIRECTOR OF THE HOUSTON PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT, MAYOR WHITMEYER AND THE CITY OF COUNCIL APPROVED ME TO THIS POSITION, AND I BEGAN WORK LAST MONTH ON THE 22ND. I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU AND SERVING THE COMMUNITY. IN MY NEW ROLE, MAYOR WHITMEYER ASKED ME TO FOCUS ON A FEW PRIORITIES, INCLUDING TRANSPORTATION PLANNING, FINDING MORE EFFICIENT WAYS OF SERVING OUR VARIED CUSTOMERS, AND DELIVERING BEST OF CLASS SERVICE. TOGETHER WITH THIS COMMISSION, I AM COMMITTED TO ADVANCING THE FINE BODY, UH, THE FINE WORK OF THIS BODY. IN CLOSING, IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, YOU CAN CALL THE HOUSTON OFFICE OF PRESERVATION AT 8 3 2 3 9 3 6 5 5 6. OR YOU CAN VISIT OUR WEBSITE@HOUSTONPLANNING.COM. THIS CONCLUDES MY DIRECTOR'S REPORT, AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. I CAN SEE I HAVE A QUORUM, BUT I'M GONNA CALL THE ROLE AND, UM, THE CHAIR IS PRESENT. UM, UH, VICE CHAIR WEAVER JACKSON PRESENT. COMMISSIONER JONES. PRESENT. COMMISSIONER DUBOSE. COMMISSIONER BLAKELY. COMMISSIONER SA PRESENT? COMMISSIONER COSGROVE PRESENT. COMMISSIONER MCNEIL? PRESENT. COMMISSIONER CURRY PRESENT. COMMISSIONER YAP. PRESENT. COMMISSIONER STAVO. PRESENT. COMMISSIONER COUCH. PRESENT AND PLANNING DIRECTOR TRAN. PRESENT. PRESENT. OKAY. THANK YOU. WE HAVE A QUORUM. UM, I ALSO WANNA MENTION THAT, UM, THERE'S AN ETHICS TRAINING FOR THE HAHC AND THE HPAB, UM, WHICH IS SCHEDULED FOR THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 26TH AT 2:30 PM IT'LL BE HELD AT SIX 11 WALKER ON THE SIXTH FLOOR, AND I BELIEVE WE'LL BE IN THE SMALL CONFERENCE ROOM RIGHT OFF THE LOBBY. UM, OKAY. UM, I, UH, I DON'T BELIEVE WE'LL HAVE A MAYOR'S LIAISON REPORT TODAY. AND SO WE WILL NEXT ON, ON THE AGENDA, WE'LL MEET THE CONSIDERATION OF THE JULY 18TH, 2024 HAHC MEETING. MINUTES COMMISSION MEMBERS, HAVE YOU HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THE MEETING MINUTES? AND IF THERE ARE NO CHANGES, IS THERE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES? COMMISSIONER AUER JACKSON MAKES MOTION TO ACCEPT. THANK YOU. I HAVE A FIRST. IS THERE A SECOND? YEP. SECONDS. OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTIONS? OKAY. THAT PASSES. UM, WE'LL NEXT MOVE ON TO, UH, ITEM A CONSIDERATION OF AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, APPLICATIONS FOR CONSENT AGENDA. TERRANCE? GOOD AFTERNOON, CHAIR, COMMISSIONERS AND THE PUBLIC. I'M STAFF MEMBER TERRANCE JACKSON AND TODAY'S STAFF RECOMMENDS THE FOLLOWING NINE ITEMS FOR ACTION PER STAFF RECOMMENDATION IN ONE MOTION ITEMS A 1 2 1 0 5 BRENTWOOD DRIVE, ALTERATION, [00:05:01] ADDITION, UH, UH, LANDMARK, UM, AND IT IS AN APPROVAL WITH CONDITIONS. ITEM A 2 6 0 8 MAIN STREET ALTERATION WINDOWS IN FIRST MONTROSE COMMONS AND THE RECOMMENDATION APPROVAL ITEM, A 3 2 1 8 AVONDALE STREET ALTERATION AND GARAGE EDITION PROTECTED LANDMARK. UH, RECOMMENDATION. APPROVAL ITEM A 4 1 4 1 9 HARVARD STREET, NEW CONSTRUCTION OF A GARAGE IN THE HOUSTON HEIGHTS EAST HISTORIC DISTRICT. RECOMMENDATION, APPROVAL ITEM A 5 9 0 9 CENTRAL TEXAS AVENUE ALTERATION OF A SIGN IN THE MAIN STREET MARKET SQUARE. RECOMMENDATION APPROVAL WITH CONDITIONS. ITEM A 6 7 1 3 EAST FIFTH AND A HALF STREET. AN AMENDMENT TO A COA IN THE FREELAND HISTORIC DISTRICT RECOMMEND RECOMMENDATION, DENIAL OF A COR, DENIAL OF A-C-O-A-A AND ISSUANCE OF A COR ITEM. A 8 1 1 3 9 COURTLAND STREET, NEW CONSTRUCTION OF A GARAGE IN THE HOUSTON HEIGHTS EAST HISTORIC DISTRICT RECOMMENDATION, APPROVAL ITEM, A 9 1 1 3 9 COURTLAND STREET ALTERATION EDITION IN THE HOUSTON HEIGHTS EAST HISTORIC DISTRICT RECOMMENDATION. APPROVAL ITEM EIGHT TEN SEVEN ONE SIX WEST COTTAGE STREET ALTERATION EDITION IN THE NOR HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT. RECOMMENDATION, APPROVAL WITH CONDITIONS. THE PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT REQUESTS APPROVAL OF ALL STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THESE PROCEEDING ITEMS. STAFF RECOMMENDS THE FOLLOWING ITEM FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION. ITEM A 7 5 2 5 WOODLAND STREET ALTERATION EDITION IN THE WOODLAND HEIGHTS HISTORIC DISTRICT RECOMMENDATION. DENIAL. THIS CONCLUDES THE PRESENTATION. UH, WE ARE HERE FOR ANY QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. IT, WELL, IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO GO OVER IT. SO WHAT WE HAVE FOR, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS AND ONE MOTIONS ITEM, A ONE, A TWO, A THREE, A FOUR, A FIVE, A SIX, A EIGHT, A NINE, AND A 10. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. TERRANCE. UM, COMMISSION MEMBERS, ARE THERE ANY OF THE SUGGESTED CONSENT ITEMS YOU'D LIKE TO PULL FOR INDIVIDUAL DISCUSSION? I'D LIKE TO PULL A THREE. OKAY. ARE THERE ANY OTHERS FROM THE COMMISSION? OKAY. AT THIS TIME, I KNOW THERE'S A FEW SPEAKERS SIGNED UP, AT LEAST FOR A TWO AND A 10. IF, UM, IS ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE ONE OF THESE ITEMS PULLED FOR INDIVIDUAL DISCUSSION? SO A TWO. AND ARE THERE ANY OTHER MEMBERS? QUESTION? OKAY. CAN I ASK IF YOU SUPPORT THE RECOMMENDATION FROM STAFF FOR A 10? OKAY. SO WE WILL LEAVE A 10 ON THE CONSENT AGENDA. MR. CHAIR, THERE IS A SPEAKER HERE THAT WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION ON, OH, DID YOU ALREADY PULL AT 6 0 8 MAIN WEST MAIN? YES, THEY PULLED IN. OKAY. SORRY. I WAS, WHILE I WAS TALKING TO HIM. IT GOT PULLED. I GOT IT. THANK YOU. OKAY, WE'RE READY? YEAH. UH, OKAY. SO I'LL RESTATE THE, UH, RECOMMENDED CONSENT AGENDA. I HAVE ITEMS 1, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, AND 10, UH, COMMISSION MEMBERS. UM, IS THERE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THIS MODIFIED LIST FOR FOR CONSENT AND THE ACTIONS AS PRESCRIBED BY STAFF COMMISSIONER AUER JACKSON MOVES? OKAY, IS THERE A SECOND COS GROUP SECONDS. OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, ANY ABSTENTIONS MOTION PASSES AND WILL PROCEED TO ITEM TWO. GOOD AFTERNOON CHAIRPERSON AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION. THIS IS STAFF PERSON TAYLOR VALLEY. I SUBMIT ITEM A TWO AT 6 0 8 WEST MAIN IN THE FIRST MONTROSE COMMONS HISTORIC DISTRICT. THE APPLICANT PROPOSES TO CHANGE OUT AND [00:10:01] ADD SEVERAL WINDOWS TOWARD THE REAR OF THE EXISTING STRUCTURE AND RESTORE ORIGINAL OPENINGS ON THE FRONT AND EAST SIDE. ELEVATIONS EIGHT NON-ORIGINAL VINYL WINDOWS WILL BE CHANGED TO WOOD FRAMED WINDOWS. NON-ORIGINAL WINDOWS ON THE FRONT PORCH WILL BE RESTORED TO ITS ORIGINAL OPENING WITH AN APPROPRIATE WOOD WINDOW. SKYLIGHTS WILL BE ADDED ON THE REAR OF THE EAST ELEVATION. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL CHAIR AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION. I'M AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE, UM, AGENT IS HERE TODAY. SO THIS CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION. OKAY, THANK YOU. UM, TAYLOR IS COMMISSION MEMBERS. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS OF STAFF ON THIS ITEM? I AND NOT HEARING? I DO HAVE TWO, UH, FOLKS SIGNED UP TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM. SO, UH, AT THIS TIME I'M GONNA OPEN UP THE PUBLIC, UM, HEARING, UH, THE FIRST SPEAKER WHO WAS SIGNED UP IS, UM, EMILIANO ZITA. THAT'S THE AGENT WHO WAS ON STANDBY, AND I DON'T BELIEVE THAT HE'S PRESENT. OKAY. I ALSO HAVE STEVEN LONGMEYER SIGNED UP. EXCUSE ME, CHAIR. CAN WE RECOGNIZE, UH, BLAKELY BEING PRESENT? YES. GOOD MORNING. MEMBERS OF COMMISSION. I'M, MY NAME IS STEVE LONGMIRE. I'M THE PRESIDENT OF THE CIVIC ASSOCIATION OF THE FIRST MONTROSE COMMONS, WHICH WHOLLY CONTAINS THE FIRST MONTROSE COMMONS HISTORIC DISTRICT. UM, I'M HERE TO SPEAK MORE TO THE PROCESS OF HOW THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION WAS ARRIVED AT, UM, AND SOME POTENTIAL FLIES IN THIS OINTMENT. UH, THIS PROJECT BEGAN, UH, WHEN THE LONG-TERM RESIDENT WENT INTO ASSISTED LIVING AND THE HOUSE WAS PURCHASED, THE NEW OWNER APPROACHED US AND HE WAS AWARE OF THE FACT THAT HE NEEDED PERMITS AND A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. NEVERTHELESS, PRIOR TO HURRICANE BARREL, A CARPORT ATTACHED TO THE HOUSE, WHICH WAS ATTACHED TO A GARAGE SLASH STORAGE ROOM THAT WAS ATTACHED TO THE HOUSE, WAS DEMOLISHED WITHOUT PERMITTING AND WITHOUT A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS OR CLEARANCE FROM THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICE RESULTING IN A RED TAG, THEN HE APPLIED FOR HIS CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR THIS PROJECT. SO THE PHOTOS THAT YOU SEE OF EXISTING CONDITIONS ON THE GROUND ARE NOT EXACTLY WHAT'S ON THE GROUND NOW BECAUSE THE WHOLE DRIVEWAY'S EMPTY. I DON'T OPPOSE WHAT HE WANTS TO DO. I'M QUITE HAPPY WITH WHAT HE WANTS TO DO. BUT THE PROCESS OF ALLOWING SOMEONE TO JUST GO THROUGH AND DEMOLISH SO THAT THEY CAN GET THE WORK STARTED IS RISKY. EITHER WE'RE HERE TO PRESERVE OUR HISTORY AND OUR ORIGINAL MATERIALS, OR WE'RE NOT. AND THERE'S NOT AN IN-BETWEEN IN, IN THAT, IN, IN MY VIEWPOINT. UM, AND I'M SORRY TO SEEM HARSH ABOUT THAT, BUT THAT'S THE WAY IT HAS TO BE. UM, I'M DELIGHTED THAT HE WANTS TO SAVE THIS HOUSE AND BRING IT BACK TOWARDS A MORE ORIGINAL CONDITION BECAUSE THIS HOUSE OVER ITS LIFETIME HAS HAD MANY, MANY NON PERMITTED ADDITIONS PUT ONTO IT. UM, BUT BOTH OF ITS ORIGINAL OWNERS ARE NOW EITHER DEAD OR IN ASSISTED LIVING. AND SO WE NEED TO MOVE FORWARD. I'M HERE TO PLEA WITH YOU THAT WE'VE GOTTA HAVE SOME MECHANISM WHERE WE CAN CALL SOMEBODY TO COME OUT ON SATURDAY EVENING AT NINE O'CLOCK. STOP, STOP SPEAKER MORE TIME. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR, AYE. AYE. THANK YOU. PLEASE PROCEED. THANK YOU, SIR. I KNOW THAT THIS COMMISSION HAS, HAS HAD GRAPPLED WITH THIS ISSUE A LOT, BUT IT'S HITTING ME PARTICULARLY HARD NOW AFTER THE HURRICANE WHERE I HAVE A LOT OF OLDER HOMES THAT ARE TRYING TO DO REPAIRS AND GET THAT THROUGH. AND SO, DESPITE THE FACT THAT I PUBLISH YOUR PHONE NUMBER IN EVERY EDITION OF OUR NEWSLETTER, THEY CALL ME FIRST. UM, AND I WALK THEM THROUGH WHAT'S NECESSARY. UM, BUT I DON'T HAVE ANY AUTHORITY TO DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN TO TELL 'EM WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO. UH, AND SO I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU GUYS WANT TO HANDLE THIS. I JUST WANT IT OUT THERE THAT YOU WILL SEE IN YOUR PACKET. IT SAYS, ORIGINALLY DEMOLISHED. UM, AND YES, IT WOULD'VE BEEN APPROVED, IT WOULD'VE GONE THROUGH HERE AND Y'ALL WOULD'VE APPROVED IT, BUT THEY DIDN'T. NOW DID THEY? AND SO THAT'S ENOUGH FOR TODAY. THANK YOU. SURE. THANK YOU. AND I CAN COMMENT, I THINK IN, UH, AND I HERE MR. UH, COMMISSIONER MCNEIL, BUT, UM, WHEN IT GETS RED TAGGED, I THINK THAT'S THE, THE PROVISIONS THAT WE DO HAVE OR, OR, OR INVOKED WHEN THAT RED TAG GOES DOWN AND IS APPLIED TO THE, TO THE PROJECT. WHEN WE LOOK AT THE C OF A, WE'RE STILL LOOKING AT THE C OF A BASED ON THE MERITS OF WHETHER THEY CAME IN BEFORE OR AFTER. BUT THE, IT'S, IT'S THE FRONT END. ONCE THAT GETS RED TAGGED IS GENERALLY WHEN THERE ARE SOME CONSEQUENCES THAT WE HAVE ON THE BOOKS. AND I KNOW WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING HOW TO, HOW WE CAN MAKE [00:15:01] THAT, YOU KNOW, BETTER. BUT IT'S, IT'S A COMPLICATED, UH, IT'S COMPLICATED AND INVOLVES, UH, THE STATE LEGISLATURE AND, AND OTHER ASPECTS, ASPECTS. I, I APPRECIATE THAT HE'S PUTTING THROUGH A, A LOT OF MONEY INTO THESE WINDOWS. I'M VERY GRATEFUL THAT HE'S DOING A, A TOP-NOTCH JOB WITH THAT. I DON'T, I DON'T REALLY WANNA JEOPARDIZE THE PROJECT AND THROW THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATH WATER, BUT I DO WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT THERE WAS A BABY HERE AND THERE WAS BATH WATER OVER HERE AND, AND THEY DIDN'T GET MEAT AND GET CLEANED UP LIKE THEY SHOULD HAVE BEFORE IT STARTED. SURE. COMMISSIONER MCNEIL, UM, MR. LONGMORE, WHAT WOULD YOU LIKED TO HAVE HAPPENED HERE? I WOULD'VE LIKED FOR HIM TO HAVE GOTTEN A PERMIT I WOULD'VE LIKED FOR THAT TO HAVE, AND THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN BEFORE THIS COMMISSION THAT DO WORK WITHOUT A PERMIT. AND WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE COR. SO, AND SO THE QUESTION IS, WHAT CAN'T CONTROL PEOPLE'S BEHAVIOR? WOULD THE CONSEQUENCES OF A COR BE HERE? BECAUSE, UM, IT WOULD COST HIM MORE IN PERMITS, IT WOULD COST HIM MORE ON THIS PROJECT, WHICH MIGHT JEOPARDIZE THE PROJECT. AND I'M, I'M VERY MINDFUL OF THAT. SO, UH, I I I DON'T HAVE A GOOD ANSWER FOR YOU, MR. MCNEIL. I'M SORRY. SO, AND THEN WE DID NOT ISSUE A COR ON THIS PROJECT. IS THAT ACCURATE STATEMENT? THANK YOU. OKAY. THANK YOU. SO THANK YOU. SORRY. IF I, IF I MAY, CHAIR COMMISSIONER CURRY, DR. LONG MAR. YES, SIR. WHAT, WHAT ARE YOU'RE ADVISING PEOPLE IN CASES LIKE THIS WHO CALL YOU AND ASK YOU WHAT TO DO? WHEN MY NEIGHBOR'S DOING SOMETHING WITHOUT PERMIT, I TELL 'EM, CALL 8 3 2 3 9 3 6 5 5 6. YOU SEE HOW MUCH I KNOW , I KNOW WHAT THEY NEED TO DO. UH, AND ASK TO SPEAK TO THE PLANNER OF THE DAY AND JUST RUN IT BY THEM. AND, AND LET ONE OF THE STAFF WHO KNOWS, KNOW THAT I NEED TO DO AN EMERGENCY REPAIR. CAN I GET A REPAIRS TO SPECS AND DO THE EMERGENCY PART OF IT TO GET IT FIXED? I'VE HAD THAT DONE ON MY HOUSE A NUMBER OF TIMES. THIS IS WHAT I'M NOTING, WHICH I'M SURE YOU FULLY REALIZE, IS THAT, UM, IT'S A LARGE ISSUE THEN WHAT COMES BEFORE THE COMMISSION, RIGHT? I MEAN, I'M SORRY IF WORK'S BEING DONE WITHOUT A PERMIT IN OR OUT OF A DISTRICT, IT'S, IT'S AN, IT'S A CITY ISSUE. IT'S AN ENFORCEMENT ISSUE, RIGHT. BEYOND THE PURVIEW OF THIS COMMISSION. RIGHT. AND, AND, AND CODE ENFORCEMENT WAS IN FACT CALLED ABOUT THIS DEMOLITION RESULTING IN A RED TAG. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ARE THERE ANY OTHER MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WOULD, WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM ON THE AGENDA? IF SO, PLEASE ANNOUNCE YOURSELF. SO NOT HEARING, I'M GONNA GO AHEAD AND CLOSE. I'M GONNA CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND THEN IF THERE'S ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION FROM THE COMMISSION, I HAD A QUICK QUESTION. THAT FIVE FIRST STEP, HAD THEY STARTED THE APPLICATION FOR THE COA WHEN THEY DID THIS? OR DID THEY DO THE DEMOLITION BEFORE THEY SUBMIT THE APPLICATION? I BELIEVE THAT THEY DID WORK AND REMOVE THE, THE GARAGE AND THE CARPORT BEFORE THE APPLICATION. SO, AND YOU KNOW, OUR PRO OUR, YOU ASKED WHAT WE'RE AT, OUR RECOMMENDATION IS APPROVAL OF A C OF A, THE CHOICE IS REALLY YOURS. UH, AND THE WAY WE LOOKED AT IT IS THE APPLICANT VERY QUICKLY, UH, CAME FORTH AND MADE A FULL APPLICATION FOR THE C OF A THAT WAS COMPLETE, IS TOTALED AND, UH, WANTED TO BE A PART OF THE PROCESS. AND I REVIEWED CAREFULLY, YOU KNOW, THIS, THE GARAGE IS, IT WAS THE REAR CORNER KIND OF ATTACHED BY A, JUST A LITTLE CORNER PIECE. BUT THE CARPORT WAS A LEAN TO JUST SCABBED ONTO THE SIDE OF THE STRUCTURE, YOU KNOW, LOOSE, NOT WELL DONE, JUST THERE. SO THOSE ARE THE KIND OF THINGS THAT IT'S A NO BRAINER. IT WAS GREAT TO TAKE, YOU KNOW, TAKE 'EM AWAY, UM, TECHNICALLY, AND THEN YOU LOOK AT THE DEFINITION OF THE STRUCTURE, WELL THAT THING IS ATTACHED TO THAT OTHER THING. YOU COULD GET INTO KIND OF SPLITTING THE HAIRS THERE OF WHAT THAT IS IN, IN, YOU KNOW, I COULD SEE ON A TECHNICAL GROUNDS WHERE WE WOULD SAY THAT'S ALL PART OF THE ORIGINAL CONTRIBUTING BUILDING AND THEN THEREFORE YOU NEED A CFA FINE IN, IN THIS CASE, JUST A MATTER OF MOVING THE PERMIT A THE APPLICATION ALONG. IT WOULDN'T, I KNOW IT WOULDN'T CONS BE A CONCERN IF, IF, IF, IF AFTER HEARING FROM DR. LONGMEYER. AND, AND OF COURSE, I MEAN HE'S A, HE'S A, A, A, A LEADER AMONG CIVIC LEADERS WHEN IT COMES TO WATCHING THE COMMUNITY AND, AND, AND, AND, AND BEING VERY HELPFUL TO OUR OFFICE. SO I IF IT, IF IT SHOULD BE A C OF R IF YOU THINK IT SHOULD BE THAT THAT'S THE CASE, THAT IT WAS AN ALT, HE DID TAKE DOWN TWO MEANINGLESS STRUCTURES, IF YOU WILL, IN TERMS OF PRESERVATION. TWO MEANING MEANINGLESS ELEMENTS THAT WERE ON THAT GROUND AND THEN STILL CAME FOR THE C OF A. SO WE WITH IT, IF I MAY ASK, SO IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S BEEN A HISTORY OF TACKING THINGS ON THIS HOUSE, THEN THESE ITEMS THAT WERE REMOVED WERE TACKED ON AT SOME POINT WITHOUT APPROVAL, OR THEY JUST GOT TACKED ON IN SOME, SOME PAST LIFE, THESE, BUT THESE ITEMS THAT WERE REMOVED, UM, IN YOUR OPINION, DID, DID, DID THEY HAVE ANY SIGNIFICANCE HISTORICALLY? NO. DID THEY ADD TO THE SIGNIFICANT, NO, SORRY, THE SIGNIFICANCE [00:20:01] OF THIS STRUCTURE? NOT AT ALL. IN FACT, ARGUABLY TOOK, TOOK AWAY FROM IT. UH, I HAVE A QUESTION, MR. CHAIR. I HAVE A, SORRY. GO COMMISSIONER BLAKEY FIRST. GO AHEAD. YOU HAVE A QUESTION OR A STATEMENT? OOPS. I I I THINK PART OF WHAT'S SORT OF ON THE TABLE HERE IS, UH, HE TOOK A RISK IN TEARING IT DOWN, RIGHT? HE, HE SORT OF WAGERED THAT, WELL, IT'S PROBABLY GONNA BE FINE. SO IF WE SORT OF PASSED US THROUGH, AS WITH THE COA AND DO NOTHING, THE RISK IS THAT OTHER PEOPLE SAY, WELL, THAT GUY TOOK DOWN HIS WITHOUT A COA, MAYBE THEY KNOW THERE'S A RISK THAT THEY COULD GET, YOU KNOW, RUN INTO TROUBLE FOR WHAT THEY DO, BUT THEY GAMBLE. AND AS COMMISSIONER MCNEAL POINTED OUT, WE, WE CAN'T REALLY CONTROL PEOPLE'S DECISION MAKING AT THAT LEVEL. BUT I, I GUESS MAYBE, UM, THE POINT BEING MADE IS THAT, IS THERE A WAY THAT WE COULD SEND A MESSAGE, UH, LIKE A STRONGER MESSAGE LIKE CAUTIONING PEOPLE AGAINST MAKING THAT BET? I'M SORRY, IF I CAN CLARIFY 'CAUSE I WASN'T ROMAN I'M NOT CLEAR. UH, DID YOU, YOU KNEW THAT THE LIEN TWO CARPORT WAS BEING REMOVED. IN FACT, UH, UH, STAFF MEMBER, UH, CHARLES HERE JUST REMINDED ME THAT AS SOON AS WE WERE TOLD THAT THERE WAS WORK BEING GOING ON, GOING ON, UH, PETE STOCKTON WAS, I GUESS SENT BY BY STAFF OR ASKED TO GO BY AND HE HAD THE TIME. SO HE WENT BY AND SAW THE WORK BEING DONE. AND, UH, TO QUOTE, UH, CHARLES WAS QUOTE PETE, UH, THAT WAS JUNK, WHAT THEY TOOK DOWN AND EVERYTHING'S SAFE OVER HERE. IT'S GOOD. THERE'S, THE HOUSE IS HERE. HE'S GONNA APPLY FOR THE C OF A, HE'S GONNA DO THE RIGHT WORK. AND SO, BUT HE BEGAN TAKING IT DOWN BEFORE ANYONE IN THE OFFICE KNEW THAT THIS WAS, THAT SOMETHING WAS HAPPENING BEFORE A COA HAD BEEN APPLIED FOR BEFORE ANYONE IN THE PLANNING PRESERVATION OFFICE KNEW. THAT'S TRUE. OKAY. I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT. I JUST WANT TO COMMENT THAT IF YOU WERE READING THE, THE ORDINANCE AND YOU WERE READING EXEMPTIONS, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT IS THAT THE CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE THAT I'M KNOCKING DOWN THAT'S TIED IN THE BACK? I SEE COMMISSIONER MCNEIL NODDING HIS HEAD, BUT I'M JUST SAYING IT'S NOT FLAGRANTLY TAKING DOWN A, A SIGNIFICANT THING STILL. I THINK DR. LONGMEYER, YOUR POINT IS WELL TAKEN. UM, AND AS SEVERAL COMMISSION MEMBERS HAVE SAID, WE CONTINUE TO STRUGGLE WITH THIS AND HOW TO, HOW TO TRY AND MODIFY BEHAVIOR WRIT LARGE MRAP, YOU ALSO HAD A QUESTION, MR. CHAIR. I HAVE A, I HAVE A QUESTION TO BOTH. UH, I THINK, UH, TO MR. LONGMEYER, UH, THE AGENT BEING NOT HERE TODAY, I JUST WANT TO GIVE THE AGENT A BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT. UH, YOU MENTIONED VERY BRIEFLY THAT THIS HAPPENED AFTER BARREL HURRICANE BARREL. SO WAS THE CARPORT ACTUALLY A SAFETY HAZARD THAT THE GUY HAD TO GO AND DO IT IMMEDIATELY OR WAS HE JUST BEING FLAGRANT? I WANTED TO MAKE SURE I GIVE HIM A BENEFIT OF A DOUBT. SO, SO REFRESH MY MEMORY OF THE DATE OF HURRICANE BERYL. WELL, IT WAS JULY THE EIGHTH. JULY THE EIGHTH MONDAY. I, I CAN'T HONESTLY TELL YOU MY RECOLLECTION IS THAT IT HAPPENED, UH, HE CLOSED ON THIS, THIS PROPERTY RIGHT AT THE END OF JUNE OR SO, AND WE HAD A DISCUSSION IN FRONT OF THE PROPERTY. HE SAYS, I KNOW I NEED A C OF A BEFORE I DO ANYTHING. NO, DON'T WORRY. BECAUSE HE, HE'S DONE ANOTHER HOUSE IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD, SO HE'S NOT UNFAMILIAR WITH THE RULES. UM, AND HE STARTED CLEANING OUT THE HOUSE AND THE VERY NEXT DAY THERE WAS A DUMPSTER THERE. AND THE DAY, THE SATURDAY AFTER THAT, PEOPLE WERE TEARING DOWN THE, THE STRUCTURE AND PUTTING IT INTO THE DUMPSTER. UM, WHERE UPON WE CALLED 3 1 1, UH, LEFT MESSAGES AT THE HOTLINE AND SOMEONE CAME OUT AND, AND RED TAGGED IT. MY RECOLLECTION IS THAT THIS WAS DOWN BEFORE THE HURRICANE. UH, AND AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IT REPRESENTED A HAZARD, I'VE LIVED IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD FOR 45 YEARS AND THAT'S BEEN THERE THROUGH ALL THE HURRICANES AND NOTHING'S FALLEN OFF THAT HOUSE SINCE THEN. UM, IT WAS AN OLD WORKSHOP THAT THE GUYS REF REFU, REFINISHED FURNITURE IN, UH, BEFORE THEY BECAME UNABLE TO, TO DO THAT. AND THE CARPORT WAS BASICALLY WHERE THEY JUST PARKED THE VAN THAT THEY DELIVERED THE FURNITURE IN? UH, YES. SO IN THIS CASE, THE CARPORT WAS REMOVED BEFORE THE IMPACT OF THE HURRICANE? CORRECT. OKAY. THAT'S JUST WHAT I WANTED TO KNOW, BECAUSE IT COULD HAVE BEEN A SAFETY HAZARD IF IT WAS DOING IT. YEAH, I THANK YOU. I I WOULD NOT HAVE SAID IT WAS A SAFETY HAZARD. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OKAY. WELL, [00:25:01] I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA CLO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. UM, AND I JUST MAKE, I'LL MAKE ONE STATEMENT ABOUT REPAIRS. I MEAN, THERE'S DAMAGE FROM THE STORM. IF, IF MY UNDER PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO MAKE REPAIRS, UH, TO PUT BACK WHAT, WHAT, WHAT SOMETHING'S MISSING, OR IF THEY CAN MAKE A REPAIR WITHOUT A C OF A ROMAN, YOU MAY WANNA STATE THAT JUST FOR THE RECORD FOR THE MEETING, THAT IT'S, THIS IS ABOUT REMOVAL OF, OF AN ACTUAL PORT OF THE STRUCTURE. BUT, UM, WHEN PEOPLE ARE NEED TO MAKE A REPAIR, THEY CAN MAKE A REPAIR. IT OFTEN IT'S GOOD TO LET STAFF KNOW. SO SOMEONE MADE A COMPLAINT, THE STAFF WOULD KNOW ABOUT THAT, BUT, BUT NONETHELESS, THEY'RE NOT REQUIRED TO HAVE A C OF A IN THOSE INSTANCES. THAT'S VERY TRUE. YOU KNOW, WE, WE FIELD A LOT OF CALLS THAT PEOPLE DO MAKE AND THEY JUST SAY, HEY, I NEED A, I'VE GOT SOME ROTTEN SIDING, I'VE GOT VARIOUS, UM, PROBLEMS ON MY STRUCTURE. AND WE'RE OFTEN SAYING, HEY, THAT'S ROUTINE MAINTENANCE. YOU, IF YOU WANNA WRITE IT IN AN EMAIL, WE, I'LL OFTEN SAY, LET US, LET US RESPOND TO YOUR EMAIL OR MAYBE SEND US A PICTURE IF WE WANNA DOCUMENT IT. BUT ROUTINE MAINTENANCE IS EXEMPTED FROM THE PRESERVATION ORDINANCE. SO IT'S VERY, IT'S VERY COMMON AND ACCEPTABLE AND TO DO THAT. AND, UM, I'M GOING TO QUOTE THE EXCEPTION JUST 'CAUSE IT'S PROBABLY REALLY WELL WRITTEN. A C OF A IS NOT REQUIRED FOR ORDINARY MAINTENANCE AND REPAIR OR FOR THE ALTERATION, REHABILITATION RESTORATION OR CONSTRUCTION OF THE FOLLOWING. AND THEN THERE'S ROOFING AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO SURE. I JUST WANNA MENTION THAT BECAUSE SOMETIMES PEOPLE ARE IMPACTED BY STORMS AND THEN THEY FEAR THEY HAVE TO COME BACK BEFORE US WHEN ACTUALLY THEY DON'T AND THEY CAN MAKE THE REPAIRS RIGHT AWAY. UM, SO I GUESS THE ANSWERS MAYBE THE QUESTION THAT'S COME BEFORE THE COMMISSION. UM, I, I GUESS I, IT SEEMS TO ME WE HAVE TWO OPTIONS. THE COMMISSION CAN APPROVE THE C OF A AS RECOMMENDED BY STAFF, OR THEY COULD DENY THE C OF A AND ISSUE A C OF R FOR THE SAME APPROVAL. BUT THAT, THAT TO ME IS, I THINK THE ONLY TWO OPTIONS WE HAVE BEFORE IS, AND IT'S REALLY WHAT THE MAJORITY OF THIS COMMISSION WOULD LIKE TO, I MEAN, SOMEONE'S GONNA MAKE A MOTION. I HAVE A MOTION, UH, COMMISSIONER JONES MOVES TO APPROVE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS. OKAY, IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. OKAY. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION? AYE. AYE. AYE. ARE THERE ANY OPPOSED? ARE THERE ANY ABSTENTIONS? OKAY. SO THAT MOTION PASSES WITH STAFF'S, UH, RECOMMENDATION. NEXT ITEM IS ITEM NUMBER THREE. GOOD AFTERNOON CHAIR AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION. THIS IS STAFF PERSON YASMINE ARSLAN. I SUBMIT ITEM A THREE AT 2 1 8 AVONDALE, A CITY OF HOUSTON PROTECTED LANDMARK FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION. THE PROPERTY INCLUDES A TWO STORY STUCCO PRAIRIE STYLE RESIDENCE, CONSTRUCTED CIRCA 1917 BY JJ CARROLL AND DETACHED ONE STORY THREE CAR GARAGE LOCATED ON A 9,100 SQUARE FOOT INTERIOR LOT WITH THE AV WITHIN THE AVONDALE SUBDIVISION. BUT OUTSIDE OF THE AVONDALE EAST HISTORIC DISTRICT. THE PRIMARY RESIDENCE IS KNOWN AS THE WILLIAM L CONNOLLY HOUSE AND WAS DESIGNATED AS A CITY OF HOUSTON PROTECTED LANDMARK. IN JUNE OF 2006. THE APPLICANT PROPOSES THE FOLLOWING SCOPE OF WORK FOR AN ADDITION TO THE NON-CONTRIBUTING ONE-STORY THREE CAR GARAGE, REMOVAL OF THE ROOF AND EXISTING SIDING TO ADD A SECOND FLOOR ADDITION ALONG WITH AN ATTACHED COVERED PERGOLA. THE NEW SMOOTH CEMENTITIOUS LAP SIDING WITH A FIVE AND A HALF INCH REVEAL WILL REPLACE THE EXISTING WOOD SIDING. A FUTURE BREEZEWAY WILL CONNECT THE GARAGE TO THE HOUSE. THE GARAGE STRUCTURE WILL CONTINUE TO PARK THREE CARS, INCLUDES AN OUTDOOR KITCHEN STORAGE SPACE, AND GUEST QUARTERS ON THE SECOND FLOOR. THREE SIX OVER ONE DORMER WINDOWS WILL BE CENTERED ON THE NORTH FRONT FACADE OVER THE CARROT STYLE GARAGE DOORS AND WOOD PERGOLA. ALL PROPOSED DETAILS ARE MEANT TO COMPLEMENT THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE AND CONTEXT AREA. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL CHAIRS, UH, CHAIR AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION. THERE ARE NO SPEAKER SIGNS UP FOR THIS ITEM. I AM AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTION. THIS CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. COMMISSION MEMBERS. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS OF STAFF ON THIS ITEM? YEAH, I, I PULLED THIS ONE. I THINK THE DETAILING IS TOO LITERAL. WE, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT PROJECTS LIKE THIS BEFORE WHERE THEY TRY TO MIMIC THE DETAILS FROM THE EXISTING HISTORIC PART OF THE PROJECT AND THEN APPLY THEM TO THE NEW ADDITION. AND I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT. I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT [00:30:01] CATEGORY THREE THAT SAYS, MAKES THINGS THAT DON'T LOOK LIKE THEY'RE BUILT IN 1920. SO THE MASSING ALL THAT I THINK IS FINE. I THINK THEY JUST NEED TO SIMPLIFY, LIKE NOT HAVE THE SIX OVER ONE WINDOWS AND NOT HAVE THE WOOD PANELING ON THE GARAGE DOORS AND NOT HAVE THE PERGOLA THING OVER THE GARAGE DOORS. BUT, BUT I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S, WOULD MAKE IT SO THAT IT AGREES WITH THE CRITERIA THAT IT NEEDS TO, MAY I EXPLAIN THE THINKING BEHIND IT? SURE. UM, SO THIS IS A PROTECTED LANDMARK. SO THE GARAGE IS TECHNICALLY NOT A NON-CONTRIBUTING, IT'S NOT INCLUDED IN THE DESIGNATION AND, AND, AND IT'S IN THE REAR. UH, WE WILL SEE A SMALL PART OF IT. SO, UM, THAT, THAT WAS KIND OF THE RATIONALE BEHIND, UM, ALLOWING THAT. BUT I, BUT THE COMMISSION HAS THE POWER TO MAKE THE DECISION THAT THEY LIKE TO. SURE. I, I STILL DON'T THINK THAT THAT CORRESPONDS TO THE CRITERIA. AND THEN I LOOK AT THE OLD PHOTOS FROM THE 1970S AND IT LOOKS LIKE THE ADDITION, THE GARAGE WAS JUST PLAIN WOOD SIDING ORIGINALLY, LIKE THE ORIGINAL GARAGE THAT SHOWS UP ON THOSE, THOSE, UM, HARRIS COUNTY TAX ARCHIVES PAPERS. SO THIS IS A SUBSTANTIALLY MORE ELABORATE DESIGN THAN HISTORICALLY WHAT WAS THERE, AT LEAST WHAT YOU CAN SEE IN THAT, THAT PICTURE. YEAH, I AGREE. OKAY. COMMISSION MEMBERS, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS TO STAFF BEFORE I OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING? IT SEEMS LIKE THE DETAILING HAS BEEN TAKEN. WELL, THERE'S, SO, OKAY. NOT HEARING, UH, WE DON'T HAVE THE SPEAKER SIGN UP, BUT I WILL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING IF ANYONE IN THE ROOM WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THE ITEM, PLEASE ANNOUNCE YOURSELF AT THIS TIME, NOT HEARING ANYONE. I'M GONNA CL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND ASK COMMISSION MEMBERS TO BRING A MOTION. UH, COMMISSIONER BLAKE BLAKELEY. I JUST NOTICED ON PAGE, UH, NINE THAT THERE IS APPEARS IN THE BACKGROUND ON THE LEFT EDGE, ANOTHER STRUCTURE, WHICH IS PROBABLY THE NEIGHBOR'S GARAGE BASED ON THE ANGLE OF THE PHOTO. UH, BUT YOU SEE THE GARAGE DOORS HAVE THIS KIND OF TRIM. UH, SO I, MAYBE THERE'S A CASE THAT THEY'RE, THE IDEA IS TO MAKE THE NEW GARAGE PICK UP ON SOME OF THIS SORT OF CONTEXTUAL DETAIL. BUT I I, IF THERE'S NO PROOF THAT THIS GARAGE HAD THAT, I DON'T THINK IT'S CORRECT TO TAKE SOMETHING FROM ANOTHER BUILDING AND SAY THAT IT'S OKAY TO USE IT HERE. 'CAUSE WE, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT STUFF LIKE THAT IN THE SIXTH WARD WHERE PEOPLE TRY TO COPY GINGERBREAD FROM DIFFERENT HOUSES ON THEIR HOUSE, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE ANY PROOF THAT THEIR HOUSE HAD THAT GINGERBREAD. SO WE, WE'VE SAID THAT THEY CAN'T DO THAT UNLESS THERE'S ACTUALLY SOME PIECE OF GINGERBREAD OR SOMETHING THAT SHOWS THAT THAT'S THE WAY IT LOOKED. AND I WOULD LIKE TO ADD, I HAVE THE BOOK, I ACTUALLY HAVE THE BOOK IN THEIR GARAGE, AND IT'S BELONGS, UH, TO THE, UH, TO THE FRONT, TO THE FRONT OF WESTHEIMER, SO IT'S BEHIND. SO COMMISSIONER COUCH, YOU HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT THIS STRUCTURE DOES NOT FALL UNDER THE GUIDELINES THAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO BECAUSE IT'S NOT IN THE SIXTH WARD. IT'S NOT NUMBER THREE WHERE YOU'RE TRYING TO MIMIC AN OLD THING. THIS IS A, THIS IS A, BASICALLY A NON DOESN'T NON-CONTRIBUTING, IT'S A GARAGE STRUCTURE TO A, TO ONE HOUSE. SO YOU HAVE DIFFERENT GUIDELINES THAT YOU NEED TO LOOK AT BECAUSE THAT, THAT PIECE THAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO DOESN'T EXIST. SO, WHICH WHEN THE ALTERATIONS TO A NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE, WE'VE DONE THIS BEFORE ANOTHER GARAGE WHERE WE ASKED HIM TO SIMPLIFY IT AND IT WAS A NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE. HE WAS TRYING TO REMODEL IT. THAT ONE IN WOODLAND HEIGHTS LIKE A COUPLE MONTHS AGO THAT WE DID THE EXACT SAME THING. IT'S IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. I, THIS IS A LANDMARK. SURE. I MEAN, ROMAN, YOU MIGHT, I MEAN, MY QUESTION IS, I KNOW WE'VE SEEN GARAGES THAT WERE HIGHLY EMBELLISHED MORE THAN, THAN THE HISTORIC HOME IN FRONT OF THEM. AND, AND THE COMMISSION HAS NOT ALLOWED, YOU KNOW, THOSE PROJECTS AND THEY, THEY'VE HAD TO BE SIMPLIFIED. UM, SO I'M NOT SURE YOU HAVE A COMMENT ON THAT, BUT OTHER, YOU KNOW, OTHERWISE I NEED A MOTION. O OKAY. I I DO HAVE, I MEAN, I HAVE A COMMENT THAT WE STRUGGLED WITH THE LEVEL OF DETAILING ON THIS. I'M SORRY I DIDN'T, WE WE, WE, WE INTERNALLY WERE STRUGGLING WITH THE LEVEL OF DETAIL ON THIS PROJECT, AND IN FACT, IT'S KIND OF ONE OF THE REASONS IT'S BEFORE YOU BECAUSE IT, IT, THIS BORDERED ON SOMETHING THAT COULD BE ADMINISTRATIVELY APPROVED. UH, ANYWAY, SO WE KNEW, LOOK, LOOKING AT IT THAT WE REALLY WANTED [00:35:01] TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION THAT WE'RE HAVING RIGHT NOW IN FRONT OF THIS COMMISSION ABOUT THIS BUILDING. AND, UM, I THINK COMMISSIONER MCNEIL AS A, AS A, THAT'S THE KIND OF THE DIFFERENCE, THE LANGUAGE OF OUR ORDINANCE PROBABLY DOESN'T GET RIGHT ON POINT ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE BEING THAT THIS IS A INDIVIDUAL, UM, LANDMARK. UM, THE, THE STAFF MEMBER THAT HANDLED THIS IS NOT HERE TODAY. SO I'M NOT, UH, SURE OF THE FLEXIBILITY OF THE APPLICANTS. THEY MAY BE FINE WITH SOME PROPOSED, UM, CHANGES. UM, WE JUST DON'T KNOW THAT, RIGHT? WE DON'T HAVE THEM HERE. SO, UM, THAT'S TO SAY I UNDERSTAND THAT IT LOOKS, UH, UH, WHAT'S THE WORD TOO? LIKEY, LIKEY SOMEONE FAMOUS. DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD DEFER IT THEN TO, I'M SORRY? DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD DEFER IT TO LET YOU HAVE TIME TO ASK THE OWNERS WHAT THEIR THOUGHTS ARE? I DON'T HAVE THE CONTACT THE RELATIONSHIP IN THIS CASE WITH THE APPLICANTS TO KNOW IF THAT WOULD BE A PROBLEM. UH, DO YOU ANYONE, DO YOU KNOW? NO. IF THEY DEFERRAL WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE AND WE CAN ADDRESS IT A LITTLE BETTER. UM, SO I DID, UM, AS, AS BACKUP, I DID CALL, UH, THE APPLICANTS YESTERDAY. WE, WE WERE POINTING OUT THE PITCH, UM, AND WONDERING IF HE'S MATCHING, UM, THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE OR NOT, BECAUSE WE THOUGHT IT WAS TOO HIGH. AND, UM, WHEN I MENTIONED THAT HE SAID HE'S FINE IF, UH, IF WE NEED TO MAKE A DEC DECISION TO LOWER THE PITCH. UM, BUT WE HAVEN'T DISCUSSED THE, THE HOW MUCH DETAIL, BUT HE SOUNDED FLEXIBLE. SO, UM, I THINK HE MIGHT PREFER AN APPROVAL WITH CONDITION RATHER THAN A DEFERRAL. BUT I WILL LEAVE THAT UP TO YOU, OF COURSE. MR. MCNEAL. SO CRITERIA FIVE, THE PROPOSED ACTIVITY MUST MAINTAIN OR REPLICATE DISTINCTIVE STYLISTIC EXTERIOR FEATURES OR EXAMPLES OF SKILLED CRAFTSMANSHIP THAT, THAT CHARACTERIZE THE BUILDING STRUCTURE OBJECT OR SITE ITEM ONE. THE PROPOSED ACTIVITY MUST RETAIN AND PRESERVE THE HISTORICAL CHARACTER OF THE PROPERTY. I JUST DON'T SEE HOW THIS GARAGE IS SOMETHING THAT WE REALLY SHOULD NOT JUST ALLOW THEM TO BUILD BECAUSE IT'S NOT A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE, IT'S IN THE BACK, IT'S NOT REALLY SEEN FROM AVONDALE AND FOR ME IT'S A GOOD LOOKING GARAGE AND IT DOES, UH, MAINTAIN AND REPLICATE THE DISTINCTIVE STYLISTIC EXTERIOR FEATURES. COMM COMMISSIONER AUER JACKSON WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE SETH'S RECOMMENDATION. COMMISSIONER STA A SECOND. OKAY, ANY OTHER DISCUSSION BEFORE I CALL THE VOTE? ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? NAY. UM, SO I GOT THREE. SO I GOT COMMISSIONER BLAKELY COUCH AND YEAH. OKAY. AND THEN, UH, ANY ABSTENTIONS MOTION PASSES. OKAY. HELLO TERRENCE. HELLO. I BET YOU THOUGHT YOU WEREN'T GONNA SEE ME AGAIN, DIDN'T YOU? . GOOD AFTERNOON CHAIRPERSONS AND MEMBERS OF THE HHC. THIS IS STAFF PERSON TERRENCE JACKSON, AND TODAY I SUBMIT TO YOU ITEM A SEVEN AT 5 25 WOODLAND STREET, A CONTRIBUTING HOME LOCATED IN THE WOODLAND HEIGHTS HISTORIC DISTRICT. THE PROPERTY INCLUDES A CONTRIBUTING 1,866 SQUARE FOOT, TWO STORY WOOD FRAME, SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE, AND AN EXISTING DETACHED GARAGE SITUATED ON A SI 7,500 SQUARE FOOT INTERIOR LOT. THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING AN ADDITION TO A TWO STORY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE WITH AN ATTACHED GARAGE AT THE SECOND FLOOR. THE APPLICANT PROPOSES TO CONSTRUCT AN ADDITION OF 288 SQUARE FEET OF LIVING SPACE ON THE GROUND FLOOR AND A 1,163 SQUARE FOOT ADDITION ON THE UPPER FLOOR DEMOLISHED THE EXISTING DETACHED GARAGE CONSTRUCT AND ATTACHED ON THE SECOND FLOOR GARAGE WITH AN AREA OF 572 SQUARE FEET. KEEP THE ORIGINAL ROOF SLOPE OF THE EXISTING HOUSE OF SEVEN OVER 12 AND PROPOSE A FOUR OVER 12 AND A SIX OVER 12 ROOF SLOPE AT THE ADDITIONS. THE CURRENT EVE HEIGHTS AT, AT THE EXISTING DORMERS ARE 18 FEET, NINE INCHES AND 19 FEET, 10 INCHES. AND THE PROPOSED EVE HEIGHTS SHALL BE 13 FEET NINE INCHES AT THE SIDE ADDITION AND THE REAR PORCH, 19 FEET AT THE GARAGE, 21 4 21 FEET, FOUR INCHES AT THE REAR, AND 22 FEET EIGHT INCHES AT [00:40:01] THE ADDITION ON TOP OF THE RESIDENCE. THE EXISTING HEIGHT OF THE ROOF'S, PEAK RIDGE IS 25 FEET AND THE PROPOSED PEAK RIDGE IS 27 10. THE CURRENT CEILING HEIGHT ON THE GROUND FLOOR IS 10 FEET FOUR INCHES, AND THE PLAN IS TO MAINTAIN THIS HEIGHT IN A NEW ADDITION. THE CURRENT VOLTAGE CEILING HEIGHT ON THE UPPER FLOOR IS EIGHT FEET 10. WITH THE FIVE FOOT 11 FIVE FEET, 11 INCH PLATE HEIGHT, THE APPLICANT INTENDS TO KEEP THE EIGHT FOOT CEILING HEIGHT AT THE NEW ADDITION. AT THE UPPER FLOOR, THE GARAGE CEILING HEIGHT IS NINE FEET ZERO INCHES. THE EXISTING FIVE INCH REVEAL WOOD SIDING TO REMAIN THE ADDITION WILL HAVE FIVE INCH REVEAL, SMOOTH SI SMOOTH FIBER CEMENT, SIDING WINDOWS ARE TO BE INSET AND RECESSED. THE HOME IS INDEED A UNIQUE RESIDENCE WITH THE VARIED, WITH VERY DEFINING QUALITIES. STAFF WOULD LIKE TO CALL YOUR ATTENTION TO PAGES 20 THROUGH 21 TO REVIEW THE PREVIOUSLY PROPOSED ELEVATIONS AND THE CHANGES THAT HAVE BEEN MADE. STAFF, ALONG WITH THE OWNER AND THE AGENT HAVE WORKED TOGETHER TO COMPROMISE AND COLLABORATE ON CHANGES TO THE ADDITION. STAFF WOULD ALSO LIKE TO ADDRESS THAT THE OWNER AND THE AGENT DEFERRED THE PROJECT FOR THE JULY HHC MEETING TO HAVE AND HAVE ADJUSTED THE DESIGN TO DECREASE THE SQUARE FOOTAGE AND MASSING OF THE STRUCTURE. HOWEVER, STAFF FEELS THAT THE ADDITION TO THE SECOND FLOOR CONFLICTS WITH THE EXISTING DORMERS BY CREATING ADDITIONAL SIGHT LINES AT THE EAVES. THUS, THE SCALE AND PROPORTIONS APPEAR TOO BIG AND TOO CLOSE. THE ADDITION COULD MOVE BACK A BIT MORE, ALLOWING FOR THE REVERSIBILITY OF THE ADDITION TO HAVE A MINIMAL TO HAVE MINIMAL IMPACT ON THE CURRENT STRUCTURE. STAFF HAVE HAS RECEIVED FIVE LETTERS OF SUPPORT FROM RES FOUR FROM RESIDENTS AND ONE RESIDENT OUTSIDE OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. STAFF WOULD ASK THE MEMBERS OF THE HAC TO PLEASE TAKE THE TIME THREE THROUGH THE LETTERS PROVIDED STAFF RECOMMENDS DENIAL OF THE COA CHAIR AND MEMBERS OF THE HHC. THE AGENT AND THE OWNERS ARE SIGNED UP TO SPEAK AND I AM AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS. THIS CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION. THANK YOU TERRANCE. UH, COMMISSION MEMBERS, ARE THERE QUESTIONS OF STAFF ON THIS ITEM? I HAVE A QUESTION. UH, COMMISSIONER BLAKELY, UH, ABOUT WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE EXISTING HOUSE IS BEING DEMOLISHED TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN? UM, I MEAN, I WOULD SAY ROUGHLY ABOUT 35, 30%. I MEAN, AND IT'S, AND I WILL COMMEND THAT IT IS, IT IS AT THE REAR AND AT THE TOP. SO DID THIS HOUSE HAVE AN ADDITION BEFORE OR WAS THAT AS ORIGINAL FORM WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN THE CURRENT? UM, SO BASED ON THE BLA, UH, PHOTO THAT'S PROVIDED, AND I CAN TELL ON PAGE FIVE, IT APPEARS THAT THE DORMERS WERE LAID, WERE, WERE ADDED AT SOME POINT. I DO NOT KNOW WHEN, BUT IT'S ALSO HARD TO TELL ON THIS PHOTO IF THE DORMERS ARE THERE BECAUSE OF THE ANGLE OF THE PHOTO. BUT ONCE YOU GO INTO THE HOME, IT DOES APPEAR THAT THE DORMERS WERE AT WERE ADDED AT A LATER TIME. ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONER, UM, MR. CHAIR? I WOULD JUST, UH, HAVE LIKE TO HAVE, UH, TERRANCE REPEAT, UH, THE, UH, MAIN REASONS FOR DENIAL AGAIN, PLEASE. THANK YOU. SO, UM, LET ME SEE HERE. UM, REASON NUMBER ONE, THE ADDITION TO THE SECOND FLOOR CONFLICTS WITH THE EXISTING DORMERS BY CREATING ADDITIONAL SIGHT LINES AND EAVES. THUS THE SCALE AND PROPORTIONS APPEAR TOO BIG AND TOO CLOSE. UM, THE SECOND, UH, REASON IS THE ADDITION COULD MOVE BACK A BIT MORE ALLOWING FOR THE REVERSIBILITY OF THE ADDITION TO HAVE MINIMAL IMPACT ON THE CURRENT STRUCTURE. UH, CAN YOU POINT OUT ON THE ELEVATION WHAT EXACTLY YOU MEAN ON, ON TEXT? IS IT PAGE 12 OF 25 OR MAYBE 13? OH, ON PAGE 20, THE FRONT ELEVATION SHOWS I THINK SOME, IT'S KIND OF LIKE YOU'RE CLIMBING A MOUNTAIN TO GET UP THERE. WELL, I WANTED TO SEE THE SITE ELEVATION BECAUSE HE WANT, HE, HE, HE TERRANCE MENTIONED ABOUT THE IMPACT ONTO THE DORMERS. RIGHT? SO THAT WOULD, I WOULD THINK THAT'S PAGE 12 OF 25. YES. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE EXPLAINING? YES, SIR. SO STAFF BELIEVES THAT, SORRY, STAFF BELIEVE THAT THE, THE ADDITION IS TOO CLOSE IN PROXIMITY TO THE ACTUAL DORMERS, EVEN THOUGH THE, UH, AGENT DID MOVE THEM BACK BECAUSE AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE, UH, [00:45:01] LATER, UM, OR THE PREVIOUSLY DESIGNED, UM, THEY WERE LIKE TWO FEET AWAY FROM THE DORMER. UM, NOW I BELIEVE, AND THE AGENT CAN CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, I BELIEVE ONE SIDE IS FOUR FEET AWAY AND THEN THE OTHER SIDE IS SIX OR SEVEN FEET AWAY. YEAH. OKAY. THANK, THANK YOU. I, I'D JUST LIKE TO ADD THAT ON THE, SO STAFF ALSO FELT THAT ON THE FRONT ELEVATION, THAT WITH, WITH THE WAY THAT THE, THERE'S A SIDE ADDITION AND THEN HOW THE GARAGE IS ATTACHED, UM, IT JUST CREATES THE LONGER MASS. UM, IT'S, I GUESS YOU COULD SAY THIS WAS A BIT OF A DIFFERENT CASE. MM-HMM . AT LEAST FOR ME, UM, SEEING AN ADDITION WHERE THE GARAGE IS ACTUALLY ATTACHED ON THE SECOND FLOOR AND THAT GARAGE BEING 22 FEET AND WIDTH. SO IF YOU TAKE THE SEVEN FOOT ADDITION ON THE LEFT SIDE AND THEN THE 22 FEET ADDITION ON THE RIGHT SIDE, I MEAN THAT'S ADDING AN EXTRA 29 FEET IN WIDTH ON THE FRONT FACADE. IN ESSENCE, WHAT, UH, WHAT STANDS OUT FOR ME WITH RESPECT TO, UH, THIS PROPOSAL AND STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION IS THE, THE AMOUNT OF MATERIAL THAT'S BEING DESTROYED ON THE OLD HOUSE. UM, BECAUSE IN PAST CASES WE'VE, WE'VE REALLY WOULD WE HAVE BEEN HESITANT TO ENDORSE OR ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO REMOVE SIDING OR TAKE OR PUT IN A WINDOW WHERE IT WOULD DISPLACE MATERIAL. AND THIS IS JUST ESSENTIALLY BLOWING OUT THE BACK THIRD OF THE HOUSE. AT THE SAME TIME. I'M A LITTLE BIT AMBIVALENT. AT THE SAME TIME, WE HAVE ALSO GIVEN SOME WEIGHT TO WHAT THE COMMUNITY FEELS ABOUT PROPOSALS. AND I THINK IT'S SIGNIFICANT THAT SEVERAL NEIGHBORS APPROVE OF THIS, UH, PROPOSAL. EVEN THOUGH I THINK THEIR MAIN REASON IS TO THEM THIS IS THE ALTERNATIVE TO DEMOLITION AND WE AREN'T, WE AREN'T LOOKING AT IT IN THAT CONTEXT AT ALL. SO CERTAINLY, AND, AND TERRANCE, CAN YOU COMMENT ON THE ASPECT OF REVERSIBILITY IN TERMS OF IF THIS WERE BUILT AND THEN THIS WERE TAKEN OFF IN, IN THE FUTURE, IS, IS THERE ANYTHING LEFT OF THE ORIGINAL HOUSE THAT'S ENTUNED INSIDE OF THE GREEN MASS? UM, SO THAT'S, THAT'S ALMOST LIKE A LOADED QUESTION. ONE BECAUSE IT IS AT THE REAR THAT THIS IS TAKEN PLACE, RIGHT? UM, I THINK THE WAY STAFF HAS LOOKED AT IT IS THAT THIS IS A VERY, VERY, VERY UNIQUE HOUSE WITH THE SKIRTING AND THE FACT THAT IT'S ELEVATED FOUR FEET, UM, THE ROOF, UM, IN ITS EXISTING CONDITION IS VERY, VERY UNIQUE. AND, AND, AND IT ACTUALLY, I MEAN, IT'S A BEAUTIFUL HOUSE. SO WHEN YOU, WHEN WE AS STAFF, UM, SEE THAT THAT ROOF AT, EVEN THOUGH IT'S AT THE BACK IS BEING REMOVED, UM, AND THEN YOU HAVE A PORTION OF THE REAR THAT'S BEING RELU REMOVED. AND ALTHOUGH, YOU KNOW, WE ARE ABSOLUTELY FINE WITH THE BACK WALL OF THE EXISTING HOME BEING TOTALLY RIPPED OUT, BUT I THINK WHEN THAT SIDE ADDITION HAPPENS AND IN ADDITION TO THE BACK WALL BEING RIPPED OUT, UM, THAT JUST MAKES FOR MORE MATERIAL ON TOP OF THAT ROOF THAT'S BEING TOTALLY, TOTALLY, UH, DEMOLISHED. SO, UM, WITH THAT, WITH THE COMPLEXITY OF THE ROOF, THAT MAKES FOR SOMETHING THAT'S PRETTY HARD TO BE REVERSED ONCE IT'S BEEN TORN DOWN LIKE THAT. YES, MA'AM. I, I GUESS WHAT I'M STRUCK BY, AND I KNOW WE, I'VE MADE THIS ARGUMENT BEFORE IS JUST THE SIZE. I MEAN A THOUSAND SQUARE FEET UPSTAIRS. I MEAN, I, I'LL JUST SAY IT 'CAUSE I HAVE THE PLATFORM. I MEAN, IF YOU, IF YOU WANT A 4,000 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE, YOU MIGHT NOT LOOK IN THE HISTORIC HEIGHTS, HEIGHTS HISTORIC DISTRICT, UM, AS, AS YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, ONE OF THE LETTERS HERE NOTES THAT THEY ARE, AS COMMISSIONER BLAKELY SAID, THE ALTERNATIVE IS DEMOLITION TALKING ABOUT THE 4,000 SQUARE FOOT HOUSES THAT REPLACED THE BUNGALOWS THAT WERE 1500 SQUARE FEET. THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE SHY OF THAT. I ALSO WONDER IF, DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA, TERRANCE, IF THESE, UM, IF THE, THE PROPERTY OWNERS PLAN TO LIVE HERE, IT MAKES NOTE THAT THEY'VE BEEN RESIDENTS OF WOODLAND HEIGHTS FOR DECADES. THEY OWN MULTIPLE HISTORIC PROPERTIES. JUST WONDERING IF THIS IS GONNA BE THEIR RESIDENCE OR IF THIS IS AN INVESTMENT PROPERTY. I I DO KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION. UM, IT IT'S AN INVESTMENT PROPERTY, SO THEY'RE, THEY'RE PURCHASING IT AND REBUILDING IT. [00:50:01] SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S, IF THAT'S LEGALLY SOMETHING I CAN TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION AS A COMMISSIONER IN MY OPINION. BUT, UM, I I, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A REQUEST TO THE PROPERTY OWNERS TO DECREASE THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THIS SEDITION TO RESPECT THE HOME. I THINK THE POINTS THAT YOU AND STAFF HAVE MADE ARE ALL VERY VALID. UM, I JUST THINK THAT THAT THE MASS, THE, THE SIZE OF THIS EDITION IS OVERWHELMING. THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE. UM, I I JUST FOR THE RECORD, I HAVE A NOTE HERE THAT I THINK, UM, NEEDS TO BE POINTED OUT. UM, AND SO STAFF HAS HAD MANY CONVERSATIONS WITH BOTH THE AGENT AND THE OWNERS. UM, AND SO ONE THING I'M NOT SURE IF YOU GUYS ARE AWARE IS THAT WHEN WE START THESE PROJECTS, WE HAVE TO GO TO HCA AND WE HAVE TO GET THE OFFICIAL SQUARE FOOTAGE FROM HCAD, RIGHT? SO IN TALKING TO THE AGENT, UM, THE SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT HE HAD FOR THE HOME WAS ABOUT 200 AND SOME ODD SQUARE FOOT LARGER THAN WHAT'S ACTUALLY IN HCA. SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, UM, THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF OVERALL CONDITION SPACE WITH ALL THE ADDITIONS, AND THIS IS JUST CONDITION SPACE BASED ON THE HCA NUMBERS AND THE NUMBERS PROVIDED BY THE AGENT, THE HOME WILL BE 3,317 SQUARE FEET VERSUS WHAT THE AGENT HAS OF 3,522 SQUARE FEET. SO I THINK IT'S JUST NOT FAIR NOT TO MAKE THAT POINT. THANK YOU. I HAVE A QUESTION. I HAVE A QUESTION. YES, MA'AM. SO IS THERE A CITY ORDINANCE THAT, BECAUSE I'M, I'M DEFINITELY WITH COMMISSIONER AUER JACKSON, WE'VE HAD THESE CONVERSATIONS AND THEN WE CONTINUE TO SEE THE HISTORIC, THIS HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD IN PARTICULAR BUILD THESE MCMANSIONS WHERE THERE'S NO GREEN SPACE THAT WAS ONCE THERE AND IT CHANGES THE, THE NEIGHBORHOOD SIGNIFICANTLY. AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THESE, THESE FOLKS WHO ARE BUILDING HAVE THE RESOURCES TO DO THESE TYPES OF BUILDS, BUT IT'S CHANGING THE COMPLEXION OF WHAT WE CLASSIFY AS HISTORIC. AND WHAT, WHAT DOES, DOES THIS COMMISSION HAVE ANYTHING, ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT THAT? WELL, I MEAN, I'LL SAY THE COMMISSION HERE, THE MAJORITY COMMISSION WILL DETERMINE WHAT THE RIGHT PATH IS AND WHAT IS TOO MUCH. AND THAT, THAT IS, THAT IS THE ROLE AS COMMISSION. I, THE ONLY THING I WILL, I'LL JUST INTERJECT ABOUT WHETHER AN APPLICANT WILL, WILL, WILL LIVE IN A HOME OR, OR JUST BE AN INVESTMENT PROPERTY. I, I PERSONALLY, I I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY, IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER EITHER WAY. WE DON'T REGULATE USE. I MEAN, THEY COULD MAKE, THEY COULD MAKE AN ICE CREAM SHOP IN THIS HOUSE IF THEY WANTED TO. THAT'S, THAT'S NOT OUR PURVIEW. BUT, UM, BUT ALSO, BUT I'LL, I'LL, I'LL, I'LL RESTATE THAT, UH, IN THE INVERSE THAT THAT JUST BECAUSE AN OWNER WILL LIVE IN A PROPERTY DOESN'T MEAN THEY SHOULD HAVE SPECIAL RIGHTS THAT SOMEONE WOULDN'T HAVE IF THEY WERE JUST DOING INVESTMENT IN PROPERTY. I THINK THE ANSWER IS IT SHOULD BE THE APPROPRIATE MASSING FOR THE CONTEXT BECAUSE OUR ROLE IS THIS IS A RESOURCE AND IF WE'RE SUCCESSFUL, IT'LL BE HERE IN 50 YEARS FROM NOW WHEN WE'RE ALL GONE AND THE CURRENT OWNERS ARE NOT HERE. AND YOU KNOW, OUR CHALLENGE IS TO LEAVE SOMETHING FOR THE FUTURE THAT'S STILL, THAT'S STILL WHOLESOME AND HISTORIC AND YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT, THAT THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ABOUT. SO I THINK IT'S UP FOR THIS COMMISSION TO FIND THE CONSENSUS OF WHAT THAT IS. UM, I JUST DON'T THINK WHETHER SOMEONE LIVES THE OWNER LIVES IN A HOME OR NOT IS NOT A BEARING. IT DOESN'T MATTER, IT DOESN'T BEAR IN THE CASE. IT, IT'S OFTEN STATED TO US, BUT I THINK IT, IT JUST IS PART OF THAT WE DON'T REGULATE USE AND IT'S REALLY NOT, IT'S REALLY WHAT IS THE APPROPRIATE AMOUNT OF SQUARE FOOTAGE BEING ADDED TO AN EXISTING HOME. THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE'RE NEEDING TO DETERMINE. MR. MY POINT, MR. CHAIR. I, I AGREE CHAIR, BUT I DO THINK THAT THE REALITY OF THE CASES THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH, UM, IN HOUSTON, TEXAS, A CITY WITH NO ZONING, UH, AND A RAPIDLY DENSIFYING, UH, URBAN CORE, I MEAN, WE HAVE TO, TO BE REALISTIC THAT MONEY IS DRIVING A LOT OF THESE PROJECTS AND WE CAN BASE THAT ON OUR ORDINANCE AND ON OUR POLICIES AS A COMMISSION. BUT IT IS, I THINK, A VALUABLE PIECE OF INFORMATION. OH, MR. CHAIR, GO AHEAD. SORRY. UH, UH, CAN I MAKE A COMMENT AS WELL? YES, THANK YOU. UH, I JUST WANNA START OFF WITH SAYING THAT I DO AGREE WITH, UH, COMMISSIONER WITH OUR JACKSON ABOUT THE MASSING OF THIS PROPERTY, BUT THIS MASSING HERE IS NO DIFFERENT FROM ANY OF THE HEIGHTS PROJECT THAT WE HAVE SEEN AS WELL AS WOODLAND HEIGHTS. THEY ARE THE ONE THAT POSES [00:55:01] THE BIGGEST ISSUES WITH MENTIONING IF, UH, AND, AND I'M ALWAYS, I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN AGAINST THAT, THE DIFFERENCE IN THAT SOME OF THOSE, MANY OF THOSE HAVE A SEPARATED GARAGE SLASH GARAGE APARTMENT, WHICH THEN KEEPS THE HOUSE RELATIVELY INTACT. ALTHOUGH IT STILL IRKS ME THAT I FEEL THERE'S STILL A MAG MANSION IN THIS CASE. SO MY QUESTION TO YOU, TERENCE, IS THAT, WOULD YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION IF THE GARAGE WAS DETACHED? I KNOW IT'S A MAG MANSION, I KNOW IT'S MESSING IS AN ISSUE, BUT WE'RE TRYING TO COME TO US, WE ARE GONNA COME TO A, A, A GOOD WIN-WIN SITUATION HERE, RIGHT? BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE, WE DON'T HAVE QUANTITATIVE MEASUREMENTS LIKE THIS IS WOODLAND HEIGHTS, THIS IS NOT THE HOUSTON HEIGHTS. CORRECT. SO IF YOU DETACH, IF WE CAN SUGGESTION, SUGGEST TO THE OWNER TO DETACH THE GARAGE, WOULD THAT HELP ALLEVIATE SOME OF YOUR CONCERNS? SO, UM, STAFF HAS ACTUALLY HAD THAT CONVERSATION. UM, SO I JUST WANT TO, WHAT YOU'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW IS A RESULT OF A DESIGN THAT HAS DRASTICALLY IMPROVED, RIGHT? AND STAFF JUST LAST WEEK BECAUSE OF SOME MISCOMMUNICATION, UM, WENT AND MET WITH BOTH THE AGENT AND THE OWNERS OF THE PROPERTY, AND THAT WAS PART OF THE DISCUSSION. SO YES, STAFF IS DEFINITELY OPEN TO THAT. HOWEVER, I MUST ADD THAT WE AS STAFF HAVE A POLICY WHERE IT'S NOT NECESSARILY A POLICY, BUT WHAT WE BELIEVE THAT IF THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE OWNER OR AGENT IS WILLING TO FIGHT FOR, THEN WE'LL BRING IT TO COMMISSION AND, AND, AND THAT WILL BE THE CASE. THIS WAS ONE OF THOSE ITEMS. THERE WERE, THERE WERE ABOUT THREE ITEMS THAT THEY ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY WANTED TO STICK TO THEIR GUNS ON, AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT THEY WERE, THAT THEY WANTED TO RENEGOTIATE, THEY ACTUALLY DID THAT AND BROUGHT BACK TO THE NEW DESIGN. SO WHAT YOU'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW IS WHAT THE OWNERS BELIEVE IS A FITTING DESIGN. UM, STAFF DOES BELIEVE IT IS, UM, A DRASTICALLY IMPROVED DESIGN. AND, UM, WE'RE JUST HERE TO BRING IT TO COMMISSION BECAUSE WE DIDN'T FEAR THAT IT WAS, UM, WORTH GOING WITH ANOTHER DEFERRAL, RIGHT, FOR, AND, AND, AND THEY BE OUT OF ANOTHER MONTH'S WORTH OF, UH, MORTGAGE OR RENT PAYMENT, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE, AND, AND BE DEFERRED FOR SOMETHING THAT, UM, MAY HAVE COME BACK AND BEEN DENIED ANYWAY. SO WE FIGURED WE WOULD COME SEE WHAT YOU GUYS DISCUSSED. IF THERE ARE THINGS THAT YOU WANT TO, UM, SUGGEST TO THEM, THEN, THEN THEY'RE OPEN TO IT. UM, SO THAT WAS OUR POSITION ON THAT. I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A SUGGESTION. UM, I CAN APPRECIATE, UH, HOW MUCH WORK GOES INTO MAKING A DESIGN LIKE THIS AND DRAWING IT, AND THIS ISN'T EVEN THE FIRST TIME. SO I APPRECIATE THE AMOUNT OF WORK THAT'S HERE. I, I JUST SPEAKING, YOU KNOW, FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF THE COMMISSION OR WHAT I PERCEIVE AS IT'S SORT OF REITS, I, I WANNA GO BACK TO THIS, YOU KNOW, THE ORIGINAL HOUSE THAT THE FACT THAT IT SEEMS LIKE ABOUT A THIRD OF IT IS JUST BEING DEMOLISHED, WHICH AMOUNTS TO A LOSS OF MATERIAL MATERIALS, HISTORIC MATERIALS. UM, SO MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE, UH, OR MY PLEA WOULD BE COULD WE ARRIVE AT A DESIGN THAT IS MORE REVERSIBLE THAT, LET'S SAY COULD BE TAKEN OFF AND THAT THAT OLD HOUSE WOULD, WOULD STILL BE LEGIBLE ENOUGH SO THAT SOMEONE COULD UNDERSTAND WHAT IT HAD BEEN. UM, AND MAYBE A WAY TO PURSUE THAT MIGHT BE TO SHIFT SOME OF THE SQUARE FOOTAGE TOWARD THE BACK OF THE SITE, MORE TOWARD THE ADDITION OR THE GARAGE AS OPPOSED TO BEING ON THE BACK OF THE HOUSE. UM, SO THAT'S MY SUGGESTION. OKAY. AND I DO HAVE THREE SPEAKERS SIGN UP ON THIS. SO WHAT I'LL, I'LL DO AT THIS TIME, I'M GONNA OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING, AND SO I DON'T HAVE YOU FIRST TO LIST SAM, BUT IF YOU WANNA GO FIRST, I THINK THAT'S FINE. I THINK EVERY, YOU'RE REPRESENTING THE OWNERS AS WELL, BUT THEY'RE ALSO SIGNED UP TO SPEAK, YOUR HONOR, HE WANTED ME TO GO FIRST. THAT'S FINE. SO PLEASE PROCEED. SAM WAS CREOLE DESIGN. I DON'T KNOW WHY I'M ALWAYS SO NERVOUS WHEN I COME UP HERE, BUT I'M GONNA TRY TO BE CALM. I MADE MYSELF A GOOD LIST TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION ABOUT HOW MUCH WE'RE, UH, TAKING OFF OF THE HOUSE. IT'S ABOUT 5% OF THE HOUSE. WE'RE TAKING 112 SQUARE FEET OF THE ORIGINAL HOUSE AWAY. THE, UH, BACK, UH, THE OWNER HAS KEPT EVERY WALL IN THAT HOUSE WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE WALL BETWEEN THE KITCHEN [01:00:01] AND WHAT WOULD'VE BEEN THE BACK BEDROOM. SO THE BACK LEFT CORNER OF THE HOUSE, AND I'M HAPPY TO SEND THAT TO YOU GUYS AND SHADED, BUT IT'S 112 SQUARE FEET AND IF YOU DIVIDE THAT INTO THE SQUARE FOOTAGE, WE'RE TAKING ABOUT 5% OF THE ORIGINAL MATERIAL. WE RE UH, MAINTAINING ALL THREE CORNERS OF THE H OF THE EXISTING HOUSE. AND SO IF YOU WANTED TO TAKE IT BACK TO THE ORIGINAL, YOU HAVE VIRTUALLY EVERY WALL THAT'S IN THAT HOUSE THERE THAT'S GONNA STAY THERE, AND YOU WOULD RECONSTRUCT THE BACK CORNER OF THE HOUSE, WHICH IS WHERE THE ADDITION GOES. UH, BACK TO THE, THE ISSUE, UH, IS WE HAVE A HUNDRED FOOT DEEP LOT ON THIS PARTICULAR LOT. AND SO WE CAN'T REALLY GO BACK INTO THE YARD BECAUSE OF THAT A HUNDRED FEET WITHOUT TAKING UP ALL OF THE YARD. AND EVERYBODY IN THE HEIGHTS WANTS A YARD. I'VE LIVED IN THE HEIGHTS, WELL, THE HOUSE I'M IN NOW SINCE 87, I LIVED TWO BLOCKS FROM THIS HOUSE ON MAR ON MERRILL. SO IT WE'RE TAKING VERY LITTLE, VERY LITTLE PERCENTAGE OF THE HOUSE AWAY. UM, THE, THE, THE ADVANTAGES OF THIS HOUSE IS A FOUR FOOT OFF THE GROUND. THE FINISHED FLOOR OF THE EXISTING HOUSE IS FOUR FOOT OFF THE GROUND. IT HAS, UH, A 10 FOOT FOUR CEILINGS. IT HAS, UH, IT'S 16 FOOT NINE INCHES FROM THE SIDE PROPERTY LINE. SO IT SITS KIND OF IN THE CENTER OF THE LOT. IT, IT HAS, IT HAS TWO BEAUTIFUL DORMERS THAT SOMEBODY BUILT THAT AREN'T ORIGINAL, BUT THEY LOOK ORIGINAL. AT FIRST I THOUGHT THEY WERE ORIGINAL, BUT THEY'RE GOOD SIZE DORMERS. BUT THEY, THEY SCALE WISE, THEY FIT BEAUTIFULLY. AND IF YOU CAN SHOW THE PICTURES OF 'EM, THEY'RE FANTASTIC. AND SO I DIDN'T WANT TO TAKE OFF THOSE DORMERS AND GO TO THAT SPOT BECAUSE WHOEVER DID IT DID A GREAT JOB. THEY MATCHED THE, THE WAY THEY BEVELED THE MOTION TO GRANT THE SPEAKER. ONE MORE TIME. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR. THEY BEVELED THE SIDING ALL THE WAY DOWN. PLEASE PROCEED. THEY BEVELED THE SIDING ALL THE WAY DOWN, JUST LIKE ON THE ORIGINAL HOUSE. IT LOOKS FANTASTIC. SO I THOUGHT, WELL, I'VE GOT THESE TWO DORMERS HERE. MY ADDITION IN THE BACK WILL BE BLOCKED FROM THESE TWO DORMERS, WHICH, IF YOU LOOK AT THE 3D, IT IS IN FACT BLOCKED BY THOSE DORMERS. AND, UH, WE'RE ADDING THE FIRST FLOOR, 288 SQUARE FEET, THAT'S IT, 288 SQUARE FEET. AND MOST OF THAT IS, IS INTO THE BACKYARD AND TO THE LEFT SIDE. UM, THE, UH, WE'RE ADDING A SIX FOOT TO THE, TO THE REAR. UH, WE'RE STILL EXPOSING ALL THREE CORNERS OF THE EXISTING HOUSE. ON THE SECOND FLOOR, WE'RE ADDING 576 SQUARE FEET. SO IT LOOKS, THE SQUARE FOOTAGE NUMBER LOOKS BIG BECAUSE MOST OF THE SQUARE FOOTAGE IS ABOVE THE GARAGE BECAUSE WE HAVE A HUNDRED FOOT DEEP LOT, SO WE CAN'T GO BACK AND STILL MAINTAIN A YARD. SO WE WENT ABOVE THE GARAGE WITH IT. I HAVE A HOUSE ON THE SAME BLOCK THAT'S ON A SMALLER LOT ON A 6,200 SQUARE FOOT LOT. THAT IS A 4,200 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE THAT THIS COMMISSION APPROVED. AND IT, IT IS, UH, HAS A ATTACHED GARAGE AND A SECOND FLOOR. WAIT, LEMME THAT ONE DOCUMENT, CAMERA PLEASE. HERE YOU GO. THIS HOUSE WAS A PERMIT, UH, AND IT HAS AN ATTACHED GARAGE. IT'S ON THE SAME STREET. AND THEN IF YOU LOOK AT THE SECOND FLOOR, WE ACTUALLY WENT UP TO TWO STORIES ON THE, ON THE BACK LEFT CORNER OF THIS HOUSE. I WENT ONE STORY ON THIS ONE BECAUSE I FELT LIKE KEEPING THE ONE STORY MADE THIS TO WHERE I COULD PUSH THAT SECOND FLOOR BACK BEHIND EVERYTHING AND HIDE IT REAL WELL, AND THAT, THAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF, OF HAVING A ONE STORY SIDE ADDITION. LIKE THAT, WHICH YOU WON'T NOTICE FROM THE STREET. UM, SO THE, THE ACTUAL SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT WE'VE ADDED TO THIS HOUSE IS 840, 864 SQUARE FEET TO A TWO. WHAT IS A 2000 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE? THE OTHER SQUARE FOOTAGE IS ABOVE THE GARAGE. AND THE ONLY WAY WE COULD GET A MASTER SUITE DOWNSTAIRS, OR NOT DOWNSTAIRS, BUT ON THE GRADE LEVEL, WHAT IT FEELS LIKE THE GRADE LEVEL IS BY PUTTING IT ABOVE THE GARAGE, WE'RE GONNA PUT SOMETHING ABOVE THE GARAGE, WHETHER IT'S A GAME ROOM OR A A, A GUEST SUITE OR SOMETHING. SO THEN WE'RE GONNA PUT THAT MASTER ABOVE THE, UH, ABOVE THE BACK OF THE HOUSE. AND SO I REALLY FELT LIKE THIS ONE WASN'T GONNA BE A STRUGGLE. AND, UM, I JUST FELT LIKE THAT WHAT WE DID, UH, WAS IN LINE WITH WHAT I'VE DONE ON MANY, MANY OCCASIONS IN, IN THE WOODLAND HEIGHTS. WE'D BE, WE'D HAVE A TOUGH TIME IN HEIGHTS PROPER, BUT WE'RE NOT TOO FAR OFF. WE'RE ONLY 30 FOOT, WE'RE LESS THAN 30 FOOT ON OUR RIDGE. AND I MEAN, IN THE HEIGHTS PROPER, I COULD PROBABLY SQUEEZE THESE DOWN A LITTLE BIT AND, AND GET IT INTO THE HEIGHTS GUIDELINES, WHICH ARE MUCH MORE STRICT THAN WHAT WE HAVE IN THE WOODLAND HEIGHTS. SO I REALLY FEEL LIKE THIS HOUSE SHOULD, SHOULD GO THROUGH WITHOUT A PROBLEM. UM, OTHER, OTHER THAN THAT, I WANTED TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THE APPROVAL CRITERIA. THE APPROVAL CRITERIA. UH, THEY SAID THE PROPOSED ACTIVITY MUST RETAIN AND PRESERVE THE HISTORICAL NATURE OF THE PROPERTY. THE ADDITIONS NOT EVEN VISIBLE FROM THE STREET. THE, IT SAYS, UH, NEW MATERIALS TO BE USED FOR THE, ANY EXTERIOR FEATURE, INCLUDING WHAT IS VISIBLE FROM THE ALLEYWAY. WE'RE MATCHING THE EXISTING LAP SIDING THAT'S ON THE HOUSE. SO IT'S, IT'S GONNA LOOK LIKE PART OF THE HOUSE ONCE [01:05:01] IT'S ALL PAINTED. YOU ALSO SAY, UH, THE PROPOSED DESIGN FOR THE EXTERIOR ALTERATIONS MUST NOT DESTROY SIGNIFICANT, UH, MATERIAL. WE'RE NOT, WE'RE ACTUALLY ON THAT LEFT SIDE. WE'RE DESTROYING ONE WINDOW. WE'RE ASKING TO REMOVE ONE WINDOW. THE REST OF THAT MATERIAL, THE SIDING THAT YOU SEE THERE, IS GONNA BE TAKEN OFF AND REPLACED WHERE WE HAVE ROTTED SIDING. AND THEN YOU ALSO SAY THAT TO PROPOSE ALTERATIONS, IT MUST BE COMPATIBLE WITH THE MASSING OF SCALE OF THE HOUSE. PRESENT PRESENTATION MODE, PLEASE. WHAT'S THAT? OH, GO, GO. OKAY. SO I, I MEAN, I JUST, I I, I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTION YOU GUYS HAVE. 'CAUSE I FEEL SO STRONGLY THAT WE FIT, FIT IN, CERTAINLY BECAUSE, I MEAN, AND THE HOUSE IS A GORGEOUS HOUSE, I HAVE TO SAY, OF THE HOUSES I'VE SEEN, IT'S ONE OF THE NICEST HOMES WE'VE SEEN COME BEFORE US. AND IT HAS TO DO MAYBE WITH THAT RAISED FLOOR PROPORTION AND WHOMEVER PUT THE DORMERS ON THERE. AGAIN, I FIRST SAW IT, I THOUGHT IT WAS BUILT THAT WAY. YEAH. LIKE A VERY RARE EXAMPLE IN THE CITY. SO, BUT ARE THERE QUESTIONS OF THE SPEAKER? I, I HAVE A COMMENT. I GUESS I JUST WOULD LIKE TO, TO, TO, TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN COMMISSIONER BLAKELY'S POINT OF THE LOSS OF HISTORIC MATERIALS AND YOUR RESPONSE OF THE 112 SQUARE FEET, 112 SQUARE FEET IS A DEFINABLE PIECE. A MEASUREMENT, UM, THAT DOES NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE ORIGINAL ROOF ROOFING MATERIALS, THE SIDING, THE WINDOWS, THE FOUNDATION, THE PIECES THAT WILL BE DESTROYED BY REMOVING THAT FOURTH CORNER OF THE HOUSE. UH, THERE'LL BE NO FOUNDATION DESTROYED. THERE'LL BE NO SIDING, UH, DESTROYED. WERE YOU REUSING ALL THE SIDING WE'RE TAKING OFF. BUT IT'S NOT IN ITS HISTORIC CONDITION. IT'S NOT, I MEAN, THAT IS BACK OF THE HOUSE. YOU KNOW, TAKING A HISTORIC WINDOW FROM A HISTORIC HOUSE AND PUTTING IT ON A DIFFERENT HOUSE IS NOT THE CHARGE OF THIS COMMISSION. THE CHARGE OF THIS COMMISSION, AS THE CHAIR SAID, IS TO PROTECT THE STRUCTURES THAT HAVE BEEN DEEMED CULTURALLY AND HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT AND, AND STEWARD THEM INTO THE FUTURE. AND I DON'T SEE THAT, THAT THIS ADDITION OVER THIS MUCH OF THE HISTORIC HOUSE DOES THAT RESPECTFULLY. HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK IS OVER THE EXISTING HOUSE? WELL, I'M LOOKING AT THIS SECTION HERE. MM-HMM. AND I DON'T KNOW A PERCENTAGE. IT'S SIX, BUT IVE HEARD IT'S SIX. I'VE HEARD STAFF SAY IT SIX. ABOUT 30%. THAT'S NOT TRUE. IT'S SIX FEET. AND I, AND I HA I'M HAPPY TO SIT DOWN WITH YOU AND SHOW YOU. IT'S SIX FEET INTO THE ORIGINAL HOUSE. IT'S SIX FEET AND IT'S TO THE OPPOSITE WALL. IT'S SIX BY 24. I'M HAPPY TO SIT DOWN WITH YOU AFTER THE COMMISSION AND LOOK AT THIS. I WOULD, I, AGAIN, THE, I JUST WANTED TO, TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN THE TWO PIECES OF MEASUREMENT HERE. THE CHARGE OF THIS COMMISSION IS TO PROTECT THE HISTORIC FABRIC, ALL OF IT. NOT, NOT SIX FEET, LESS OF IT, OR A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF IT. NOW, THERE IS TONS OF SUBJECTIVITY IN THAT, AND THAT'S WHAT WE STRUGGLE WITH AND DEAL WITH ON ALL OF THESE. UM, AND I, I JUST, I, I THINK IT IS, ANYTIME WE'RE DOING AN ADDITION TO THESE HOUSES, WE'RE GONNA HAVE SOME, SOME, UH, UH, MATERIAL DESTROYED. AND, AND WE TRY TO, I UNDERSTAND THAT. IF I COULD FINISH, I, THE OTHER POINT THAT, THAT YOU MADE WAS, YOU KNOW, TO MY EARLIER POINT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE CLIENTS WANT AND WHAT PEOPLE EXPECT OUT OF THIS, THEY WANT A YARD. THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN THIS. AND THAT, THAT IS NOT, AGAIN, UNDER THE PURVIEW OF THIS COMMISSION, WE HAVE A CHARGE TO PROTECT THE HISTORIC FABRIC AND THE STRUCTURES IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. IF THE CLIENTS WANT X, Y, AND Z, THIS MAY NOT BE THE SPOT TO LOOK FOR THIS. THIS MAY NOT BE THEIR, THEIR, THEIR DISTRICT, THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD. WE CAN'T, I, I THINK IT IS, I THINK IT IS, UM, NAIVE TO THINK THAT WE CAN GIVE PEOPLE EVERYTHING THEY WANT IN TERMS OF SQUARE FOOTAGE, HISTORIC CHARACTER, THE YARD, AND ALL OF THAT. SO I JUST RAISE THAT POINT BECAUSE WE CONTINUE TO HEAR IT. YOU'RE HERE BEFORE US. AND THOSE ARE ALL, YOU KNOW, FRANKLY, I THINK PRETTY SHALLOW ARGUMENTS WHEN THE CHARGE OF THIS COMMISSION IS TO PROTECT THE HISTORIC STRUCTURES THAT HAVE BEEN DESIGNATED. OKAY. I HAVE A QUESTION. UM, JUST THIS KIND OF FOR CLARIFICATION, ON PAGE 13 OF 25, THERE'S TWO DRAWINGS OF THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE. OKAY. SO THERE IS, AT THE TOP IS THE EXISTING HOUSE THAT'S SHADED IN RED, WHICH I'M ASSUMING IS WHERE THE ADDITION'S GONNA GO. AND THEN THE GREEN SECTION BELOW IS, I'M ASSUMING THE NEW ADDITION THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING. H HOW IS THAT SIX FEET WIDE? THE BACK PORTION IS AN ENCLOSED PORCH. YOU SEE WHERE THE WINDOWS ARE DIFFERENT THAN, UH, THAN THE REST OF THE HOUSE. THEY'RE ACTUALLY JELLED WHEN WINDOWS ON THAT BACK PORTION OF THE HOUSE. SO THAT WHOLE BACK PORCH WAS [01:10:01] ENCLOSED AT SOME POINT. SO IT'S NOT PART OF THE ORIGINAL, UH, HOUSE, BUT IT'S, IT WAS A PORCH ON THE HOUSE. YEAH, THAT PORCH RIGHT THERE. SO THAT DOESN'T COUNT. LIKE HOW DOES THAT NOT COUNT? I DON'T UNDERSTAND. 'CAUSE IF IT'S A PORCH THAT WAS BUILT WHEN THE HOUSE WAS BUILT, WHY IS IT NOT PART OF THE HISTORY OF THE HOUSE? WELL, THIS, THIS WAS BUILT, I THINK WHEN THE DORMERS WERE BUILT, THEY ADDED IT. YEAH, IT WAS ADDED. RIGHT. DO YOU HAVE DOCUMENTATION? YEAH, THEY CHANGED IT ALL THE ADDING, NO, BUT LIKE, I, LIKE, I LIKE MR. BUS SAID OF THE, THOSE DOOR, THOSE, UH, I THINK BRAD MIGHT HAVE SOME DOCUMENTATION ON WHEN THEY WERE BUILT, BUT IT, THEY DIDN'T, THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF WE ENTERTAINED THIS A COUPLE OF TIMES IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS. IF WE COULD SEE DOCUMENTATION OF WHEN THE PORCH WAS ADDED, THEN I THINK IT WOULD BE EASIER, AT LEAST FOR ME TO SAY, OKAY, THAT WASN'T AN ORIGINAL OR CONTRIBUTING PIECE OF THE STRUCTURE. NO, I'M HAPPY TO DO THAT. HAPPY TO DO THAT. DO WE HAVE A SANDBORN MAT? DID WE EVER GET A SANDBORN MAT? YEAH. AND SOMETIMES THESE PORCHES WERE PORCHES AND THEY WERE THEN INFILLED AT LATER TIMES WITH WINDOWS AND SIDING. AND SO, UM, SO TERRANCE IS, IS, DID, DID YOU GUYS GET THE, THE HARRIS COUNTY ARCHIVE STUFF AND THE SANDBORN MAPS AND EVERYTHING FOR THIS? SO WITH, FROM THE HARRIS COUNTY ARCHIVE, THAT'S WHERE THE, UH, THE IMAGE CAME FROM. THERE HAVE BEEN THOSE LITTLE PLANS, THESE, THOSE SKETCH PLANS. UH, YES, I DID, I DID NOT INCLUDE THOSE IN THE REPORT. UM, THE, BECAUSE THE SKETCH PLANS WERE, I MEAN, THEY SHOWED THE HOUSE AS IT WAS NOW, I MEAN, COULD BE. SO THE PORCH WAS ORIGINAL THAT, SIR, I DO NOT REMEMBER. I MEAN, I ACTUALLY WENT TO THE HOUSE WITH SAM AND I, I DON'T EVEN THINK WE WENT TO THE BACK PORCH. UM, SO THAT I CANNOT ANSWER. SORRY. OKAY. IT APPEARED THE PORCH WAS ORIGINAL AND THEN INFILLED AT SOME POINT TO BE PART OF THE INTERIOR SQUARE FOOTAGE. WELL, WE DON'T KNOW 'CAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ANY OF THE THINGS IN THE REPORT. IT'S AN ORIGINAL CORNER. SO A SUPREME PORCH IF YOU WALKED UP. YEAH. AND, AND UNLESS THERE'S SOME, UNLESS THE SANBORN SHOWED SOMETHING DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, IT, IT, IT APPEARS THAT WAY FROM WHAT WE CAN TELL. SO THEN FOR HIM TO SAY SIX FEET'S NOT CORRECT, BUT THAT, THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND. 'CAUSE I FEEL LIKE WE HEAR ONE THING, BUT THEN WE LOOK AT THE DRAWINGS AND WE SEE SOMETHING DIFFERENT. CERTAINLY. I MEAN, I THINK THE STATEMENT IS SIX FEET. IT'S SIX FEET FROM THE ORIGINAL ENVELOPE. THAT WAS NOT THE PORCH. BUT IF YOU'RE COUNTING THE PORCH, WHICH IT DOES APPEAR TO BE WITHIN THE MASS, UNLESS SOMEONE CAN SHOW US DIFFERENTLY, IT'S MORE THAN SIX FEET. BUT I DO HAVE TWO OTHER SPEAKERS SIGN UP. AND THEY ARE THE OWNERS. AND I HAVE A, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR SAMMY. OKAY. WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SHOW US? UH, I HAVE THE ASALT DRAWINGS OF WHAT WE, WHAT WE DID WHEN WE TOOK MEASUREMENTS. AND IT SHOWS WHERE THE BACK, I HAVE THE AS-BUILT DRAWINGS OF THE, THAT WE TOOK WHEN WE WENT OUT THERE. THAT JUST SHOWS WHERE THAT PORCH IS. AND, AND, AND, AND I THINK IT'S PRETTY CLEAR THAT THAT WAS ENCLOSED ANOTHER TIME. THE, THE WINDOWS IN THAT AREA ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN THE ORIGINAL HOUSE. THEY'RE GELING TYPE WINDOWS. AND SO IT, UH, IT, IT, IT SHOWS YOU WHERE THAT PUT PIECE IS. THE HIP OF THE ROOF AND THE CORNER, THAT BACK CORNER ARE ALL ORIGINAL FLARED SKIRT. IT JUST WAS A PORCH THAT HAD WINDOWS PUT IN IT. I BELIEVE SO. I BELIEVE, I BELIEVE. AND THE SIDING WAS PUT ON IT. BUT I GONNA TELL YOU, WHOEVER DID IT DID A REALLY GOOD JOB. SURE. I THINK, SAM, THE, THE MAIN ISSUE THAT THE DIFFERENCE IN CONVERSATION IS THAT COMMISSION IS ASKING IS THE PORCH ORIGINAL TO THE HOME? AND THEY'RE, AND THEY'RE COUNTING THE PORCH AS PART OF THE HOME. YEAH. AND SO THEY'RE MEASURING FROM THE BACK OF THE PORCH. THAT WAS LATER INFILLED. THAT, THAT'S I THINK THE DIFFERENCE IN TERMS OF WHAT THE QUESTION THAT'S ALL SIX FEET OF HOUSE PLUS EIGHT FEET OF THE PORCH. YEAH. AND I NEED TO HAVE THIS, I MEAN, THE FRONT PORCH IS CONTRIBUTING. YES. IN THESE PROPERTIES. THE BACK PORCH IS AS WELL. BUT THEN ALSO MOST OF THE TIME, UH, Y'ALL HAVE NOT, UH, CARED ABOUT TAKING OFF A BACK PORCH. NOT, BUT WITH RESPECT TO ALL THE YEARS I'VE BEEN DOING THIS, HAVE Y'ALL EVER WORRIED ABOUT A BACK PORCH THAT HAD BEEN ENCLOSED? WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN ABLE TO REMOVE THOSE. CERTAINLY. PART OF THE ISSUE IS THE MATERIALS. THE, NOT EVEN JUST THE SIDING, BUT THE SHEATHING, THE STUDS, THE YOU DO JOISTS, ALL OF THAT. WHAT'S THAT? THE, THE, I'M SORRY, I COULDN'T HEAR IT. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT MATERIALS OF THE HOUSE, WE'RE NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT SIDING, BUT ALSO THE SHEATHING, THE JOISTS, THE STUDS, THE FLOORING, EVERYTHING. UH, AND THEN WE ARE ALSO TALKING ABOUT THE WHOLE BACK ELEVATION MATERIALS GOING AWAY. RIGHT, BECAUSE THAT DOCUMENT CAMERA PLEASE CAN TRY SHOW YOU, CAN I TRY TO SHOW YOU ON THIS? IS THAT THE SANBORN MAP THAT WAS JUST ON THE SCREEN? YEP. CAN WE SEE THE, CHARLES CAN WE SEE THAT SANBORN AGAIN, PLEASE. UH, SURE. SAM WANTED TO SHOW YOU HERE, LET ME DO THIS FIRST. THERE. I'D LIKE TO SEE THE SANBORN MAP PRESENTATION PLEASE. PRESENTATION PLEASE. [01:15:04] SO THERE WAS NO PORCH ON THE BACK HOUSE IS THE SQUARE HOUSE, BUT THEY WOULD'VE MARKED IT AS A PORCH. 'CAUSE THERE'S OTHER ONES WITH PORCHES MARKED LIKE NOTCH, LIKE THE ONE, TWO TO THE RIGHT OF IT. THE PORCH ON THAT IS EVEN DIFFERENT THAN THE PORCHES THERE. NOW THE PORCH, PORCH PORCH MARKED AS AS IF IT DIDN'T HAVE, BUT IT'S CONSISTENT. AND IT, AND YOU SEE HOW IT HAS, WE HAVE TWO BUMPS OUT ON ONE ON THE LEFT SIDE, ON THE RIGHT SIDE, WHICH THIS, UH, SAND MORE BATTERY. YOU ALL RIGHT ABOUT THAT? OKAY, SAM, I NEED TO MOVE ON. BUT CAN WE, CAN WE PUT THE OTHER PLAN OUT THAT YOU WANTED TO SHOW, UH, WITH THE FLOOR PLAN IN THE HOUSE? SO YOU COULD MAKE YOUR POINT DOCUMENT CAMERA PLEASE. THE HIGHLIGHTED WALLS AND WALLS WILL BE REMOVING IN THIS HOUSE. ALL THE OTHER WALLS REMAIN. IT'S A LOT OF WALLS. OKAY, SAM, WELL, I DO HAVE TWO MORE SPEAKERS SIGNED UP, WHICH ARE THE OWNERS, AND THEY MAY BE ABLE TO ADD MORE, UH, TO THIS CONVERSATION. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. UM, UH, FIRST WHO IS SIGNED UP IS BRAD ROBBINS. I, AND IF YOU COULD, YOU COULD RESTATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS THE COMMISSION. THANK YOU FOR COMING COMMISSIONERS PRESENTATION, PLEASE. UM, MY NAME'S BRAD ROBBINS AND, UM, MY WIFE IS IN THIS FOLDER. SHE TAKES CARE OF HER 98-YEAR-OLD MOTHER IN NEW JERSEY, A WEEK, A MONTH. SO SHE'S OUTTA TOWN FOR THIS, BUT SHE WANTED TO BE BE HEARD AND SHE'S LISTENING. SO PLEASE DON'T HARASS ME TOO MUCH. UM, I'M NOT SURE I'M GONNA BE UP HERE AFTER HEARING SOME OF THESE CONVERSATIONS, BUT, UH, I'LL TRY. I WE'RE HERE TO DISCUSS THIS APPLICATION. WE LIVE A BLOCK AWAY. I KNOW. AND WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT GONNA LIVE THERE. ALTHOUGH MY WIFE, AFTER SEEING US DESIGN THINKS MAYBE WE WILL, BUT I, I DON'T THINK WE ARE. UM, WE LIVED A BLOCK AWAY AND UM, WE, WE'VE BEEN THERE ABOUT 40 YEARS. WE'VE RE RENOVATED SEVERAL, UH, WOODLAND HEIGHTS HOMES TO STOP THEM FROM BEING DEMOLISHED OR BEING, UH, DONE INCORRECTLY AS WHAT WE THINK THE NEIGHBORHOOD WANTS AND NEEDS. MOST OF THIS WAS DONE BEFORE HOUSTON DESIGNATION, UH, HISTORIC DESIGNATION HAPPENED. SO WE'RE NEW TO THIS, SO BEAR WITH ME. BUT ON THAT TOPIC, MARY AND I, WE WERE BIG SUPPORTERS OF THE ORDINANCE AND WE WERE ONE OF THE ORIGINAL SIGNATORIES OF IT. SO WE ARE SUPPORTERS OF WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE. AND, UH, AND WE CAN SHOW YOU HOUSES WE'VE DONE THAT ACTUALLY FIT WITHOUT THE DESIGNATION EVEN BEING THERE. SO WE'RE PROUD OF THAT. UM, WE LOVE THE WOODLAND HEIGHTS AND WE WANT ITS CHARACTER MAINTAINED JUST AS YOU DO. AND WE'RE, BUT WE'RE NOT DEVELOPERS. WE'RE NOT IN IT FOR THE MONEY. UH, WE'RE HOPING NOT TO LOSE MONEY, BUT WE REALLY, IT IS NOT A MONEY ISSUE. IT IS NOT A SQUARE FOOTAGE ISSUE. IT IS HOW CAN WE BUILD A HOUSE THAT RE RETAINS, RETAINS WHAT WE WANT FOR HISTORIC, HISTORIC PURPOSES. BUT IT IS SOMETHING THAT THE MODERN FAMILY WANTS. NOT THE FAMILY THAT WANTS TO LIVE IN KATY, NOT THE ONES THAT WANNA LIVE IN A 4,000, 5,000 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE. I'M NOT SUPPORTIVE OF THAT EITHER. WE ACTUALLY WANTED TO BUILD ON THE FOOTPRINT THAT WE HAVE. THAT WAS OUR INTENT. BUT IF YOU START PUTTING THE RESTRICTIONS IN THAT WE HAVE, WHICH IS YOU CAN'T BUILD A TWO STORY HOUSE, YOU CAN'T BUILD ALL OF THAT. UH, YOU CAN'T DO THIS. YOU KNOW, THERE'S CERTAIN THINGS YOU CAN'T DO. AND WE WANNA RETAIN THE BACKYARD. UH, WE GET TO A PLACE WHERE WE ARE TODAY. UM, SO LET ME READ, I'M NOW MOVING INTO MY WIFE'S TIME. UH, YOU DON'T NEED TO PUT THIS UP, BUT I WANT THAT FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE. OKAY, SURE. AND COULD YOU STATE YOUR WIFE'S NAME FOR THE RECORD? MY WIFE'S NAME'S MARY ROBBINS. DEAR HAHC MEMBERS, BRAD AND I FELL INTO THIS PROJECT RATHER UNINTENTIONALLY, BUT WE KNOW WE ARE THE BEST REMODELERS FOR THE HOUSE'S SAKE AS WELL AS THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THE PREVIOUS OWNER, MEG BLACKSTONE, TAUGHT FOUR OF OUR KIDS IN SECOND GRADE, AND WE'VE REMAINED FRIENDS EVER SINCE. OUR GOALS IN PURCHASING HER HOME ARE TO HONOR HER AND RAY AND THIS ORIGINAL WILSON HOUSE AND TO CREATE SOMETHING THAT THE NEIGHBORS ARE HAPPY WITH BECAUSE THEY'RE OUR NEIGHBORS TOO. BECAUSE MEG WAS A CAREER TEACHER AT TRAVIS ELEMENTARY BECAUSE [01:20:01] OF ITS PROXIMITY TO TRAVIS. AND BECAUSE WE TALKED TO FAMILIES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, WE DECIDED THE BEST USE OF THIS HOUSE WAS NOT FOR EMPTY NESTERS, BUT FOR A FAMILY, BECAUSE THAT'S THE KIND OF NEIGHBORHOOD THAT IT IS. WE SET OUT TO ACHIEVE AS MANY OF THESE PEOPLE'S DESIRES AS POSSIBLE WHILE ADDING THE MINIMUM AMOUNT OF SQUARE FOOTAGE, KEEPING AS MUCH OF THE EXISTING HOUSE AS POSSIBLE AND ENCROACHING AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE ON THE USABLE BACKYARD. SINCE THERE WAS AN EXISTING GARAGE WITH AN UPSTAIRS, WE THOUGHT A NO-BRAINER TO USE THE GARAGE. SECOND STORY, IN OUR PLAN, FAMILIES CRAVE OUTDOOR SPACE, NOT SQUARE FOOTAGE. ADDITIONS MADE SOLELY TO BOOST SALES PRICE, AS IT SEEMS SOME REMODELERS WILL DO. ALSO, WE'RE TOLD TO SPEC REMODELERS OFTEN GUT AND ERASE ALL THE HISTORIC CHARACTER FROM THE OLD HOUSE. AND THAT'S NOT WHY THESE FAMILIES WANNA LIVE IN THE WOODLAND HEIGHTS IN A HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD. THEY WANT THAT HISTORIC INTERIOR. OUR DESIGN RETAINS 100% OF THE ORIGINAL LIVING ROOM, WHICH IS HUGE. THE DINING ROOM, WHICH HAS BUILT IN CHINA, CABINETS AND, UH, WINDOW SEATS, THE SUNROOM AND A FRONT BEDROOM TOTALLY ORIGINAL, TOTALLY WILL BE REDONE, MOST OF ALL, MOST REALLY, MOST OF THE DOWNSTAIRS. AND THAT'S WHY SO OF THIS CONVERSATION EARLIER, IT'S NOT 30%, IT'S NOT 20%. IF YOU LOOK AT THE MAP, IT'S VERY LITTLE OF THE UPSTAIRS MOTION. MORE TIME. IS THERE A SECOND? ALL IN FAVOR, AYE. AYE. AYE. PLEASE PROCEED. UM, IN FACT, OUR ONLY ADDITIONS TO THE HOUSE ITSELF, AS YOU'VE SEEN, ARE A MODEST ONE STORY BUMP OUT TO ALLOW FOR A FAMILY ROOM. WE HAD TO REDO THE STAIRS BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT THE CODE. SO WE HAD TO PUT THOSE IN AND ONE BEDROOM AND A BATHROOM UPSTAIRS. AND THEN WE'VE BUILT OVER THE TOP OF THE GARAGE. SO WE BELIEVE WE HAVE A GOOD PRACTICAL AND ATTRACTIVE DESIGN, AND WE ASK THAT YOU CONSIDER ITS APPROVAL. SINCERELY, MARY ROBBINS, LET ME INTRODUCE YOU TO OUR PLAN. WE KEPT MUCH OF THE ORIGINAL INTERIOR OF THIS ONE STORY RESIDENCE. THIS MEANT NOT CUTTING UP THE EXTRA LARGE LIVING ROOM, KEEPING THE SUNROOM, AS I SAID, RESTORING THE HUGE DINING ROOM WITH ITS BUILT-IN CHINA CABINETS AND WINDOW SEATS. IT WILL BECOME A SHOWPLACE, BUT NOT AT THE COST OF MODERNIZING THE AVAILABLE DOWNSTAIRS SPACE. LET ME REVIEW THE EXTERIOR FOR A MOMENT. COULD YOU PUT THAT UP PLEASE? SO THIS IS A 3D DRAWING DOCUMENT. CAMERA PLEASE. STANDING WHEN YOU'RE STANDING ACROSS THE STREET, AND YOU CAN SEE THAT IS THE PROPOSED DESIGNED HOUSE, YOU CAN BARELY SEE THE GARAGE AND YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE THE BUMP OUT THAT PEOPLE ARE WORRIED ABOUT. AND UM, SO THERE'S AN EXISTING TWO STORY GARAGE. THIS GARAGE IS, HAS STAIRS. IT'S FULLY FLOORED, , IT HAD UTILITIES. UH, IT'S FULLY FUNCTIONAL, BUT IT WAS TOTALLY ROTTED AND GOING TO THE GROUND. SO WE HAVE TO DEMO IT, DEMO IT. WE WERE ESSENTIALLY REPLACING THAT TWO STORY GARAGE, BUT WE'RE INTERFACING IT WITH THE HOUSE ON THE SET ON ESSENTIALLY THE ONE AND A HALF FLOOR. SO WHEN YOU COME UP THE STAIRS, YOU'LL GO IN A DOOR AND YOU GO INTO THE MASTER MASTER BEDROOM, OR YOU'LL GO UPSTAIRS INTO THE SECOND FLOOR UNDERNEATH, YOU'LL BE TOTALLY OPEN TO THE BACKYARD FROM THE SIDE YARD. SO IT'S NOT THE MASS THAT YOU MAY BE THINKING OF OR WE'VE BEEN SEEING COMING UP IN THE HEIGHTS. UM, SO IT'S, THE GARAGE TODAY IS ACTUALLY SET A BIT BEHIND THE EAST WALL OF THE HOUSE. SO IT'S NOT EVEN TOTALLY APPARENT THAT IT'S NOT ATTACHED RIGHT NOW. UNFORTUNATELY, IT WAS ROTTED AND IN TOTAL DISREPAIR. AND, UM, OUR PLAN, IT'S ATTACHED TO THE HOUSE. I JUST SAID THIS, UH, ONLY AT THE MASTER BEDROOM, SUITE LEVEL, UH, AT THE STAIR LANDING ON THE GROUND FLOOR. IT'LL BE OPEN TO THE BACKYARD. AND THIS ALSO EXPOSES THAT THIRD CORNER THAT THIS COMMISSIONER WANTS TO SEE. THAT ORIGINAL CORNER. WE HAVE THREE OF THOSE EXPOSED, UH, ON THE DOWNSTAIRS TO SAVE AS MUCH AS BACKYARD AS POSSIBLE. WE, UM, ONLY CAME BACK SIX FEET, BUT WE DID ADD THAT SEVEN FOOT BUMP OUT TO GET A FAMILY ROOM IN. UH, TAKING THAT AWAY WOULD ACTUALLY TOTALLY CHANGE HOW WE'VE DESIGNED THIS HOUSE. UM, UH, THE WEST SIDE, IF YOU LOOK AT THE, UH, ELEVATIONS, IT ALREADY HAS A CHIMNEY THAT JUTS OUT BEHIND THAT. IT HAS A DINING ROOM THAT JUTS OUT TWO FEET. AND SO WE'RE GOING BACK TO THE VERY BACK OF THE HOUSE AND COMING BACK OUT SEVEN FEET. UH, BUT IN THE VERY BACK. UM, SO LOOKING AT THE 3D PICTURE, YOU CAN SEE AS I'M POINTED OUT EARLIER, THAT YOU CAN BARELY SEE THE GARAGE. UH, AND YOU CAN'T SEE THAT BUMP OUT THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT AT ALL. [01:25:01] SO, UH, WHERE ARE WE? WE CAME UP WITH A PLAN. WE THOUGHT IT WAS REALLY GOOD. UH, SAM, OUR ARCHITECT, THOUGHT IT PASSED EVERYTHING HE'D SEEN. STAFF LOOKED AT IT AND THEY HAD COMMENTS AND ON PAGE, AND I'M NOT SURE ON THE WHAT YOU HAVE, BUT IT'S ON PAGE 18 OF WHAT I SAW WAS SUBMITTED ON DRAFT. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S IT. PAGE 18 SHOWS YOU ALL THE THINGS THE STAFF ASKED US TO DO. AND WE DID ALL THIS PRESENTATION MODE, PLEASE. I, SO IT'S NOT 18. IT'S, IT'S A PLACE WHERE IT HAS, UM, CAN WE PUT UP PAGE 21? 21? IT HAS, IT HAS A LIST UNDERNEATH A DRAWING. NO, IT'S NOT THIS. PAGE 21, PLEASE. THERE WE GO. SO WE, WE DID THESE THINGS. WE, WE REMOVED THINGS THAT SOME PEOPLE COMMENT ABOUT THAT MADE IT LOOK LIKE PART OF THE HOUSE. WE TOOK CARE OF THE, WE TOOK THE SKIRTING OFF, WE PUT A HIP ROOF ON THE GARAGE. WE REMOVED THE HISTORIC LOOKING WINDOWS THAT WE HAD IN THE, IN THE MASTER SUITE AND PUT PLAIN WINDOWS BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE STAFF WANTED US TO DO. SO WE DID THAT. AND THEN THEY ASKED US TO MOVE BACK AWAY FROM THE DORMERS, WHICH WE DID AS MUCH AS WE COULD WITHOUT GETTING MORE INTO THE BACKYARD. BUT WE'RE UPSTAIRS, REMEMBER WE'RE NOT DOWNSTAIRS. SO WE CUT IT OFF AND WE ACTUALLY SAID, OKAY, WE'LL REMOVE A BEDROOM AND THAT'S HOW WE'LL GET BACK AWAY FROM THOSE DORMERS. SO WE ACTUALLY TOOK OUT AN ENTIRE BEDROOM AND SEVERAL HUNDRED SQUARE FEET TO MEET STAFF REQUIREMENTS. AND WHILE WE DIDN'T LIKE IT AT THE TIME, WE SEE HOW THAT COULD BE QUITE A LIVABLE THING TO DO. AND SO WE DID IT. UM, BUT YOU CAN SEE THE OTHER THINGS THAT ARE ON THERE. UM, WE LOWERED THE NEW ADDITIONS ROOF SLOPE. UH, AND SO IT TOOK THE ROOF OUT DOWN BY THREE FEET. UH, WE WANTED TO GO OUT ON THE EAST SIDE WITH A BUMP OUT, BUT WE WERE INFORMED THAT YOU CAN'T GO EAST IF YOU'RE GONNA GO WEST. AND THAT WOULDN'T BE, UH, ACCEPTABLE TO THIS GROUP. SO WE ONLY WENT WEST BECAUSE WE'RE NOT, REMEMBER THE GARAGE APARTMENT WAS ALREADY THERE. SO WE'RE NOT COUNTING THAT AS GOING WEST. UH, I'M GOING EAST. SO I THINK, UH, THERE WAS COMMENTS ABOUT THE ROOFING. A LITTLE COMPLICATED. IT WAS COMPLICATED IN 1907. I DIDN'T COMPLICATE IT. WE ADDED ONE ROOF LINE TO THIS. SO I DON'T THINK, WHILE IT IS COMPLICATED, UH, WE DID OUR BEST NOT TO MAKE IT MORE COMPLICATED. UM, SO THE, THE LAST PART, AND YOU'VE ALREADY SEEN THIS, IS IT'S THE LAST MEETING OF THIS GROUP LAST MONTH. I REALLY REALIZE THAT YOU WANNA KNOW HOW THE NEIGHBORS THOUGHT ABOUT THIS AND THAT IT WAS IMPORTANT. I HADN'T THOUGHT ABOUT THAT. SO WE ASKED NEIGHBORS WHAT THEY THOUGHT. FIVE OF THEM RESPONDED. UH, THEY ALL LIVE WITHIN FOUR BLOCKS OF THAT HOUSE. UH, ONE OF 'EM OUTSIDE THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, BUT STILL FOUR BLOCKS. UM, AND, AND YOU CAN SEE WE HAVE HUGE SUPPORT AND THE LETTERS ARE THERE. BUT I'VE ALSO TALKED TO NEIGHBORS, ONE ON EACH SIDE AND THE LADY STRAIGHT ACROSS. AND BOTH OF THEM ASKED IF THEY NEED TO COME TESTIFY TODAY. AND I SAID, NO, BECAUSE I THINK YOU'LL UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE DOING. THOSE THREE, I'VE SEEN THE DESIGN WALK THROUGH DESIGN AND SAY IT LOOKS REALLY GOOD AND THEY LOVE WHAT WE'RE DOING TO MAINTAIN THAT ORIGINAL HOUSE. SO, AND I ALSO TALKED TO PEOPLE DIRECTLY BEHIND WHERE THE GARAGE WAS, WHICH THEY CONSIDERED A RAT HOUSE BECAUSE RATS LIVED THERE AND THEY LOVED THE IDEA THAT WE'RE RESTORING THIS HOUSE. MOST OF THEM KNEW THE BLACK STONES AS WELL AND APPRECIATED WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO TO THEIR HOUSE AND KEEPING IT. SO, UH, I'M OPEN TO QUESTIONS. I I DID, LEMME SHOW YOU JUST A COUPLE HOUSES JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ON SCENE. HERE ARE THREE HOUSES WE CAN LOOK AT REALLY QUICKLY. DOCUMENT CAMERA PLEASE. YOU'LL NOTICE THESE ARE THREE HOUSES DIRECTLY ACROSS FROM ME. AND IT, MAYBE IT DOESN'T MATTER, BUT I THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE IMPORTANT. IF YOU LOOK AT THIS HOUSE, LOOK TO ON THE LEFT SIDE, A HUGE ADDITION WITH A GARAGE. GO AHEAD TO THE NEXT ONE. OKAY, YOU GO NEXT HOUSE, NEXT DOOR TO THAT ONE. THERE'S AN ADDITION OUT STICKING OUT. UH, AND THEN GO TO THE NEXT ONE. AND YOU CAN SEE THAT ONE, IT IS HARD TO SEE. UH, IT'S ON THE LEFT SIDE. THERE'S ANOTHER ADDITION STICKING OUT FARTHER THAN MY SEVEN FEET. UM, AND THEN, UH, LASTLY ON THE NEXT BLOCK, AND THIS IS ONE THAT WAS APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION IN DECEMBER, I BELIEVE. UH, YOU CAN SEE A HOUSE AND IF YOU LOOK BEHIND THAT, UH, SYCAMORE TREE, YOU'LL SEE A GLASS SUNROOM ADDITION THAT WAS APPROVED. [01:30:01] AND ON THE SAME SIDE, AN ADDITION, IT GOES OUT TO THAT BIG GARAGE APARTMENT THAT HAS LIVING SPACE ABOVE IT ALL CONNECTED. AND THAT WAS APPROVED IN DECEMBER, I THINK. UH, LET ME SHOW ONE MORE THING AND THEN I WILL BE QUIET. DID IT SHOW THIS, PLEASE? I, I JUST WANT TO ADDRESS THAT, ADDING A, ATTACHING A GARAGE BECAUSE I HEARD THAT WE MIGHT HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THAT. SO I, WE LOOKED AND DID A QUICK RESEARCH THERE. PLENTY OF MORE THAT THE COMMISSION HAS APPROVED. BUT HERE'S A LIST THAT YOU CAN QUICKLY SEE. ONE OF THEM, IT'S THE ONE WE JUST LOOKED AT, UH, OF WHERE WE'VE APPROVED ADDITION ATTACHED ADDITIONS RECENTLY. AND SO I'M A LITTLE ON, I I DON'T UNDERSTAND. SO CERTAINLY I I I, I COULD ADD SOME CLARITY. IF YOU WERE TO GO BACK ONE IMAGE TO THE IMAGE YOU SHOWED OF, OF A RECENT PROJECT APPROVED BY COMMISSION. THIS PRO THIS PROJECT MM-HMM . THIS PROJECT WAS ORIGINALLY SUBMITTED WITH A TWO STORY ADDITION THAT WENT FROM LEFT TO RIGHT OF THE PROPERTY WITHOUT STOP. AND THE COMMISSION WORKED WITH THE APPLICANT IN THIS CASE TO REMOVE THE SECOND FLOOR PORTION. UM, THEY ALLOWED A ONE STORY CONNECTOR TO THE GARAGE, BUT THEY, UM, THEY AS WAS MENTIONED EARLIER IN THIS DISCUSSION FOR THIS PROJECT, UM, WERE TRYING TO MAKE THE GARAGE LOOK LIKE A DETACHED GARAGE AND SEPARATE FROM THE MAIN MASS OF THE HOUSE. SO FOR THIS PROJECT, I'LL JUST COMMENT 'CAUSE IT'S VERY RECENT THAT IT WAS AL IT WAS RADICALLY ALTERED IN, IN, IN SOME ASPECTS TO MAKE THAT GARAGE APPEAR TO BE SEPARATE, DISCONNECTED, EVEN THOUGH PHYSICALLY THEY CONNECT ON LEVEL ONE, BUT BECAUSE A LOT I GUESS WAS WIDER. UM, YOU CAN SEE SO MUCH, UH, SKY BETWEEN THE GARAGE AND THE HOUSE. MM-HMM . AND OF COURSE SOME OF THESE PROJECTS THAT WE'VE SEEN TODAY. AND ALSO WHEN SAM, YOU KNOW, SPOKE MANY OF THE APPLICANTS HAD TWO STORY HOMES. UM, WHICH IT'S, IT'S ALWAYS EASIER TO HIDE IN ADDITION BEHIND A TWO STORY HOME 'CAUSE OF THE MASS. AND, AND, AND JUST AS YOU HAVE A ONE STORY HOME, WHICH IS QUITE ELEVATED AND IS IN SOME WAYS HAS A LOT MORE MASS THAN A TYPICAL ONE STORY HOME THAT WE WOULD SEE. SO EVERY PROJECT IS DONE DIFFERENTLY MM-HMM . BUT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE GIVEN TO, UH, GARAGE MASSING THAT AT LEAST APPEARS TO BE DETACHED OR IS ATTACHED, UH, IS SOMETHING WE DO TRY TO DO. AND WE, WE DO TRY TO DO THAT IN THE HEIGHTS AS WELL. AND WHEN THERE ARE GUIDELINES IN WOODLAND HEIGHTS, UM, I WOULD IMAGINE THAT, THAT, THAT AS THAT, THAT CONSTRUCT WILL ALSO BE LIKELY IN THE GUIDELINES AGAIN, PROVIDED THAT THE COMMUNITY, THAT'S WHAT THE COMMUNITY WANTS. BUT I UNDERSTAND, UH, I WILL JUST COMMENT. IF YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURES AGAIN, YOU'LL SEE THAT THERE'S THE HOU ORIGINAL HOUSE AND THE EXISTING GARAGE IS ACTUALLY SET BEHIND IT. AND IT'S THERE. IT'S, IT WAS A TWO STORY WITH A LIVING AREA ABOVE IT. SO, UM, ALL WE DID REALLY IS SAY WE'RE GONNA REBUILD THAT PRESENTATION MODE PLEASE. SO, OKAY. THANK YOU. OPEN THE QUESTIONS. COMMISSION MEMBERS, ARE THERE QUESTIONS OF THE APPLICANT? WELL, I GUESS WOULD YOU CONSIDER MAKING AN ACTUAL SEPARATION BETWEEN THE HOUSE AND THE GARAGE? LIKE THAT LAST PROJECT WE LOOKED AT WHERE THERE WAS A NOTCH RATHER THAN HAVE THE SECOND FLOOR OF THE HOUSE CONTINUE ONTO THE GARAGE? SO I, I WOULDN'T BE ABLE, WELL I WOULD I CONSIDER IT, YES. DO I THINK IT'S DOABLE WITHOUT SPENDING SOME TIME THE SIDE, THE BOUNDARY? I'M ON THE BOUNDARY NOW, RIGHT? WITHIN, I MEAN WITHIN MY THREE OR FIVE FEET OF THE BOUNDARY. SO I CAN'T MOVE THE GARAGE OVER AND YOU'RE NOT GONNA LET ME MOVE THE HOUSE OVER. SO I DON'T KNOW HOW I WOULD GET THAT SEPARATION. UM, I, UNLESS YOU'RE ASKING ME TO DO A ONE ONE CAR GUIDE, SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING FOR YOU AND SAM TO FIGURE OUT. BUT I'M JUST ASKING IF THAT'D BE SOMETHING YOU'D CONSIDER. SO IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT'S TOUCHING THE HOUSE ON THE SECOND FLOOR, WHICH I THINK IS WHAT'S UPSETTING US. YEAH, I THINK THE DIFFERENCE IN WHAT, WHAT THE QUESTION IS, IT'S NOT, THE QUESTION WASN'T COULD THE GARAGE BE DETACHED ENTIRELY, WHICH, 'CAUSE THAT'S THE DEFINITION OF A DETACHED GARAGE WITH MAYBE A COVERED, UH, LIKE A, A COVERING OF A VERY SMALL SIZE. BUT THIS QUESTION WAS SIMPLY ON THE SECOND FLOOR. COULD THE ROOF BASICALLY DISAPPEAR BETWEEN THE TWO STRUCTURES? SO ONE MIGHT WALK FROM THE SECOND FLOOR TO THE OTHER, BUT, BUT WITHOUT THE COVERING OR MASS OF A SECOND FLOOR? I, I THEN I'LL, I'LL ANSWER. NO, WE COULDN'T, COULD NOT DO THAT BECAUSE WE'RE USING THAT AS A MASTER BEDROOM SUITE. AND I DON'T THINK ANYBODY, NO OWNER THAT I KNOW IS GONNA WALK OUTSIDE TO GO TO THEIR BEDROOM. SO I, I HATE TO SAY IT 'CAUSE I'M SURE I'M GONNA MAKE MYSELF UNWELCOME HERE, BUT I DON'T SEE HOW WE WOULD DO THAT. [01:35:02] I JUST DON'T SEE, YOU COULD ADD STAIRS AND THE INSIDE OF THE HOUSE THAT GO TO THE SECOND FLOOR OF THE GARAGE THAT START ON THE FIRST FLOOR, RATHER THAN HAVING A HALLWAY ON THE SECOND FLOOR THAT GOES FROM THE GARAGE, SECOND FLOOR TO THE HOUSE, SECOND FLOOR. WE LOOKED, THAT'S WHAT THE PEOPLE DID ON THE OTHER PROJECT. WE LOOKED AT THAT. WELL, THE OTHER PROJECT, THEIR MASTER BEDROOM ISN'T OVER THERE, BUT, UH, I JUST, IF YOU HAVE A MASTER BEDROOM, WE THINK IT SHOULD BE CONNECTED WITH THE HOUSE. IF YOU'RE GONNA HAVE CHILDREN IN THE HOUSE, YOU WOULDN'T WANNA GO OUTSIDE AND UP SOME STAIRS. I CAN LOOK AT IT, I'M OPEN TO IT. I PERSONALLY DON'T SEE THAT AS A, AS A VIABLE ALTERNATIVE. SO DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD DEFER THIS TO LET THEM WORK ON IT SOME MORE? CAN I MAKE A COMMENT? SURE. I I, CAN I JUST SAY ONE THING BEFORE, BEFORE YOU START, WE, WE FEEL PRETTY STRONGLY THAT THIS DESIGN WORKS FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND FOR US AND FOR THE HISTORIC. SO I JUST THANK YOU COMMISSIONER COSGROVE. SO I HAVE LESS ISSUE WITH THE GARAGE. ACTUALLY MY ISSUE IS THE FOURTH CORNER AND THE KICKOUT ON THAT SIDE. 'CAUSE IF YOU GO TO PAGE 10 OF 12 20, 25 AND YOU LOOK AT THE EXISTING ELEVATION, I CAN DEAL WITH THE ROOF IN THE GARAGE. BUT WHAT STICKS OUT TO ME IS THE SIDE ADDITION ONE STORY SECTION MM-HMM . THE SIDE EDITION ON THE LEFT SIDE SIDE. LEFT SIDE IS, IF YOU LOOK AT THE EXISTING EL ELEVATION, THE TOP ONE, AND YOU PUT YOUR FINGER OVER THE GREEN ON THE SIDE, YOU ACTUALLY CREATE A NOT SO DISSIMILAR IMAGE. AND SINCE WE DON'T HAVE PROOF THAT THIS HOUSE WAS ADDED ONTO AND THAT THE EXISTING REAR PORCH IS A LATER EDITION, I DON'T SEE WHY WE WOULD NOT MAINTAIN THE FOURTH CORNER OF THE ORIGINAL HOUSE. AND IF YOU REMOVED THAT WHOLE SIDE EDITION, I FEEL LIKE THE PROJECT WOULD BE, AT LEAST IN MY OPINION, MORE ACCEPTABLE, UH, MR CHAIR. SURE. YEAH. UH, CAN I REQUEST TO HAVE THE SANDBORN MAT PUT BACK UP PLEASE? THANK YOU. WHERE'S THAT FRONT PORCH? BUT THERE'S NO BACK PORCH. THAT'S THEIR POINT IN THE PLANT ROOM. MR. CHAIR, I, MAYBE IT'S A MISTAKE OF MY OBSERVATION, BUT THIS SANDBORN MAP, THIS ORIGINAL STRUCTURE IS, IS A LOT MORE SIMPLISTIC. THERE IS NO, UH, BUMP OUT ON THIS. UH, IF YOU LOOK AT THE, UH, IF YOU LOOK AT THE FLOOR PLAN, UH, THE FIRST FLOOR PLAN, PAGE SIX OF 25, ALL THESE ITEMS OF LIKE, UH, THE DINING AREA SEEMS TO HAVE THIS LITTLE BUMP OUT, THE TWO FOOT KICK OUT THAT YOU CAN SEE, DOES IT NOT EXIST? BUMP OUT HERE ON SANDBORN IS, IS IS JUST A STRAIGHT BACK. IT'S JUST A STRAIGHT BACK ALL THE WAY TO SOME POINT HERE AND GOES THERE AND THEN HAVE A STRAIGHT BACK ALL THE WAY THERE. THERE'S NO THIS BUMP OUT HERE EITHER. SO I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH OF THE, THE ORIGINAL HOUSE IS ACTUALLY ORIGINAL IN, IN THIS CASE, SO MUCH HAS BEEN EMBELLISHED, I WOULD SAY, INCLUDING THE DORMERS THAT COME UP FROM THIS, THIS THING, THE BUMP OUT COMES FROM THE DORMER. SO YEAH, I UNDERSTAND THAT. AND, BUT THE, I MEAN, I THINK THERE, THERE'S BEEN A MODIFICATION TO THIS HOUSE FROM WHAT THE SANBORN SEEMED TO SHOW. BUT THE, THE ISSUE IS OF COURSE, EARLY MODIFICATIONS TO THESE HOMES, IF THEY ARE SIGNIFICANT OR AS SIGNIFICANCE BECOME STILL PART OF THE, THE HISTORIC, UH, FABRIC OF THE HOUSE. AND SO WE HAVEN'T SEEN ANY EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST THAT THEY'RE VERY RECENT THAT, OR THAT THEY WERE MADE LIKE OUTSIDE THE PERIOD OF SIGNIFICANCE. SO THIS IS AN ATYPICAL, UM, APPLICATION IN, IN TERMS OF THAT ASPECT. BUT JUST BECAUSE IN ADDITION IT'S MADE TO THE HOME DOESN'T MEAN THE ADDITION MAY NOT ALSO GAIN SIGNIFICANCE. AND IN THIS CASE, I MEAN THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST ATTRACTIVE HOMES I'VE SEEN THAT COME, THAT COMES BEFORE US. AND, AND MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE THE FLOOR LEVEL HAS RAISED SO MUCH AND IT HAS THE SKIRTING THAT IT DOES, [01:40:01] BUT THE PROPORTIONS AND ALSO THAT REAR PORCH, AT LEAST IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE IT WAS A SCREENED IN REAR PORCH BUILT BEFORE FORCED AIR CONDITIONING BECAUSE IT WAS TOO HOT TO SLEEP INSIDE YOUR HOT HOUSE, YOU KNOW, YOUR BEDROOM. AND SO IT LOOKS LIKE IT WAS INFILLED AT SOME POINT. SO, YOU KNOW, THERE MAY BE SOME PROOF THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT'S ABOVE THE CEILING IN THE ATTIC OR PROOF IN THE, UM, YOU KNOW, IN THE CRAWL SPACE BASED ON THE TYPES OF LUMBER THAT'S USED IN THE SECTION OF THAT WOOD AND SO FORTH. BUT IT DOES LOOK LIKE SOME OF THESE WERE EARLY CHANGES THAT MAY, UNLESS, UNLESS THEY CAN BE PROVEN OTHERWISE APPEAR TO BE PART OF THE HISTORIC, UM, SIGNIFICANT STRUCTURE BEFORE US AND, AND LIKELY HAPPENED WITHIN THE PERIOD OF SIGNIFICANCE. SO THAT, THAT'S THE, THE CAVEAT THAT WE, WE HAVE. WELL, MR. CHAIR, WHY I, WHY I BRING IT UP IS THAT OKAY, IT COULD BE SECOND GENERATION, SOMEBODY BUILD A PORCH AND THEN THIRD GENERATION, SOMEBODY SCREENING THE PORCH AND PUT GEL ON WINDOWS, WHICH WE KNOW IS NOT HISTORIC RIGHT NOW. AT LEAST TO THIS DAY. I KNOW IT'S NOT HISTORIC. SURE. THE ISSUE THEN COMES IN FOR ME, I, I'M STRUGGLING WITH MYSELF BECAUSE THEN IN, IN HIS, IN, IN, UH, THE HEIGHTS, EVERY TIME WE HAVE A MCMANSION ADDITION, IT DEFINITELY COMES OVER THE ORIGINAL HOUSE. THERE IS NO VERTICAL CUTOFF RIGHT WHEN IT COMES OVER THE ORIGINAL HOUSE, I'VE BEEN TOLD MANY TIMES BY STAFF, OH, WELL SIX TO 10 FEET IS NORMAL BECAUSE A FOOT IS MAYBE THE, THE, THE, THE WHOLE HOUSE, ORIGINAL HOUSE IS MAYBE 25, 30 FEET IN DEPTH. AND THEN NOW THEY'RE COMING IN IN 10 FEET. SO IN THIS CASE, I SEE NO DIFFERENT IN THE APPLICATION. WHY DO WE DINK THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT? BECAUSE I'VE SEEN THIS NUMEROUS TIMES IN THE HOUSTON HEIGHTS. YEAH, SURE. WELL, I THINK EVERY PROJECT'S DIFFERENT. AND OF COURSE THIS PROJECT HAS A SIDE EDITION, A REAR EDITION, A A SECOND FLOOR EDITION AND IT HAS A ATTACHED GARAGE. YEAH. SO IT'S GOT FOUR THINGS. I HAVE EXCEPTIONS TO THAT. YEAH. I, I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE SIX FOOT IF THAT IS THE CASE, BUT OKAY, ADDING TO THE SECOND FLOOR, HAVING THAT DETACH, I THINK IS AN IMPORTANT THING. THAT'S MY MY POINT OF IT. I JUST WANNA POINT OUT THAT WE HAVE INCONSISTENCIES BEING APPLIED HERE AND UNFORTUNATELY THIS ONE HAS ALL THE FOUR DIFFERENT THINGS APPLIED, LIKE YOU MENTIONED, ALL IN ONE HOUSE. YET WE SEE INCONSISTENCIES. SO TO ME IS THAT, UH, MY ISSUE IS THAT THE DECISION OF THE OWNER TO MAKE THAT ROOM ABOVE THE GARAGE, HIS MASTER, THAT'S HIS BUSINESS. THAT'S NOT MY PURVIEW. IT COULD HAVE BEEN SOME OTHER GAME ROOM FOR THAT MATTER AND SWAP SOME ROOM, BY THE WAY. SO TO ME, THE POINT IS THAT DO WE DIFFER OR DO WE SAY DENIAL BECAUSE OF THIS, THIS, AND THIS? I MEAN, WE CAN, WE CAN DEBATE TILL SIX O'CLOCK IN THE EVENING, BUT IT'S ONE, I MEAN, WE'RE IN OUR LAST PROJECT. SO I MEAN WE'RE, WE'RE GIVING THIS, THIS, THAT'S DUE NO QUESTION. BUT I THINK IF WE WERE, IF YOU, I MEAN, I CAN'T ANSWER TO WHETHER WE'RE GONNA DEFER SOMETHING THAT'S UP TO THIS COMMISSION. UH, TYPICALLY WHEN THE OWNER IS HERE, WE'LL GIVE THEM THE DEFERENCE TO ASK THEIR QUESTION. IT HAS BEEN PUT FORTH WHETHER A, LIKE A PORTION, ONE OF THE FOUR ITEMS WAS REMOVED, LIKE THE SITE ADDITION, THE ONE STORY SITE ADDITION. WOULD THE OWNER BE WILLING TO DO THAT TO POSSIBLY GET EVERYTHING ELSE THAT THEY WANTED? THAT'S STILL A CONVERSATION THAT WAS OFFERED BY COMMISSIONER COSGROVE. MM-HMM . I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE COMMISSIONER WILL VOTE ON THAT. I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THE APPLICANT WOULD ACCEPT THAT. BUT IT IS OUR TRADITION TO ASK THE OWNERS WHETHER IT'D BE WILLING TO MAKE ADJUSTMENTS FOR THE SAKE OF GETTING AN APPROVAL. SO, CAN I ASK A QUESTION, PLEASE? OH NO, HOW LONG DID THE PEOPLE LIVE THERE? HOW LONG DID THE PEOPLE THAT YOU BOUGHT THE HOUSE, YOU SAID YOU WERE FRIENDS WITH THEM? I THINK WAS THE BLACK, HER PARENTS LIVED THERE AND THEN SHE AND HER HUSBAND LIVED THERE FOR I THINK 60 YEARS. OKAY. SO DID THEY DO THESE MODIFICATIONS TO THE HOUSE? THEY DID THE UPSTAIRS AND THEY DID, I BELIEVE THEY DID THE GARAGE. OKAY. SO I MEAN, I THINK THAT ANSWERS OUR QUESTION ABOUT HOW LONG THINGS HAVE BEEN THERE AND WE SHOULD NOT DISCUSS THAT ANYMORE. , I MEAN, I THINK WE'RE DEALING WITH A HOUSE THAT WE SHOULD CONSIDER THE ENTIRE THING ORIGINAL. MM-HMM . COMMISSIONER , WOULD YOU ASK THE QUESTION YOU PUT FORTH TO THE OWNER ABOUT WHETHER THEY'D BE WILLING TO UH, I MEAN, I, I MEAN, IT, IT'S MY OPINION THAT, AS I SAID, I, I CAN DEAL WITH THE GARAGE AND THE, THE ROOF LINE IN THE BACK, BUT IT, IT'S THE COMBINATION OF ALL THREE NEW ELEMENTS AND REMOVING THE SIDE ADDITION TO ME SIMPLIFIES THE DESIGN AND SEEMS TO KEEP IT MORE IN CHARACTER WITH WHAT IT ORIGINALLY LOOKED LIKE. AND SO WOULD YOU BE OPEN TO MODIFYING THAT FOURTH CORNER OF THE HOUSE AND I I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT RETURNED TO THE, TO THE CORNER OR THE ORIGINAL CORNER, BECAUSE THEN THE ORIGINAL HOUSE WOULD [01:45:01] BE COMPLETELY DEFINED ON THE FIRST FLOOR. UM, WELL MY WIFE IS LISTENING AND SHE PROBABLY WON'T AGREE WITH THIS, BUT I DON'T SEE ANY WAY THAT WE CAN TAKE THAT OFF. I THINK WE CAN TAKE A LITTLE OF IT OFF. BUT IF YOU'RE SAYING TO REMOVE THE ENTIRE BUMP OUT ON THE WEST SIDE, IF YOU LOOK AT THE INSIDE, WHAT IT DOES IS CHANGE THE ENTIRE DESIGN ESSENTIALLY GOES BACK TO MY THING OF TRYING TO MAINTAIN THE HISTORICAL PART OF THE HOUSE. I'M GONNA HAVE TO GO BACK IN THERE AND START CHOPPING IT UP TO USE SOME OF THAT SPACE FOR OTHER THINGS. NOW I KNOW YOU DON'T LOOK AT THE INSIDE, BUT THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE GONNA, I'M TRYING NOT TO DO THAT. I'M TRYING TO KEEP IT BECAUSE PEOPLE WANT TO LIVE IN THE WOODLAND HEIGHTS BECAUSE IT'S HISTORICAL. NOT JUST THE OUTSIDE, BUT THE INSIDE. AND IF YOU TAKE THAT BUMP OUT, I'M AFRAID I'M GONNA HAVE TO GO IN AND, UH, START CHOPPING UP SOME OF THAT INSIDE SPACE. IT'S, IT WON'T BE HISTORICAL INSIDE, BUT SAY, SO I, I WOULD SAY I WOULD NOT BE WILLING TO DO THAT. CAN OKAY. I, I DON'T WANNA DESIGN FROM HERE, BUT HOW, I WAS JUST WONDERING HOW MUCH SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT IS, SAM, DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH THAT BUMP OUT THAT ON THE FLOOR PLAN IS LEVELED? THE GREAT ROOM? UM, HUNDRED 40 SQUARE FEET. THE BUMP OUT, THE ENTIRE BUMP OUT IS BY 20. OKAY, SO WHAT DOES THAT LEAVE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE KITCHEN? IT LEAVES, I'M JUST TRYING, MR. ROBBINS, I REALLY WANT TO WANNA WORK WITH YOU. I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER COSGROVE AND I, I MEAN, I'M, I'M YOUR BUYER , YOU KNOW, I'M, I MEAN, I'M, I'M, I'M THINKING ABOUT MY FAMILY IN THIS HOUSE WITH MY TWO YOUNG KIDS AT TRAVIS ELEMENTARY. AND, UM, YOU KNOW, I, I'D LOVE TO, TO FIND A WAY TO MAKE THIS WORK. THAT'S WHY I WAS JUST WONDERING HOW BIG THAT SPACE WAS. IT LEAVES A SPACE 10 BY 20 FEET. SO 200 SQUARE FEET, 10 FOOT WIDE PER FAMILY ROOM. DOESN'T WORK WITH A LARGE LIVING. I MEAN, YOU'VE MAINTAINED A SIGNIFICANT ROOM AT THE RIGHT. OKAY. THANKS SAM. THANK YOU. OKAY, SO I'M GONNA, AT THIS TIME I'M GONNA CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING, UH, COMMISSION MEMBERS. I THINK WE HAVE A, WE HAVE A RECOMMENDATION FROM STAFF, UM, AND OR COMMISSION CAN BRING A DIFFERENT MOTION. I, I WOULD LOVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DEFER THIS INSTEAD OF FLAT OUT DENY IT. 'CAUSE IT IS SUCH AN, A BEAUTIFUL HOME. AND I THINK WE'RE CLOSE IF THERE'S ANY WILLINGNESS TO, YOU KNOW, TO WORK WITH THAT, UH, BUMP OUT. BUT I GUESS IF, IF THE APPLICANT AND THE, AND THE DESIGNER SAY THERE'S NO ROOM FOR COMPROMISE, THEN, UM, BUT IT JUST SEEMS TO ME IF THEY TOOK THAT OUT, THEY'D HAVE A 16, 17 FOOT WIDE SIDE YARD DOWN THE LENGTH OF THE PROPERTY, WHICH WOULD BE A HUGE OUTDOOR SPACE. 'CAUSE THE PROPERTY RIGHT NOW SAYS IT'S 16 FOOT 10 INCHES FROM THE, FROM THE PROPERTY LINE ON THE SIDE. SO EVEN IF THEY WENT OUT A COUPLE FEET TOWARDS THE REAR, THEY'D STILL HAVE A HUGE GARDEN. THAT'S A GOOD POINT. I'LL JUST ASK ONE MORE TIME. IF THE APPLICANT HAS ANY WILLINGNESS TO, TO GO BACK TO, TO THE DRAWING BOARD ON THESE, ON ANY OF THESE THREE ITEMS. THINK THE QUESTION IS, IS THE APPLICANT WILLING TO DEFER THE PROJECT OR WOULD THEY, WOULD THEY SUPPORT A DEFERRAL OR WERE THEY LIKE A VOTE? IF I COULD FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIT, FIT A FAMILY ROOM IN THAT SPACE WITHOUT BUMPING OUT, BELIEVE ME, I'D BE ALL OVER IT. BUT, UM, I, I JUST DON'T KNOW. I MEAN, I, I'M THINKING ABOUT YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT, UH, HOW TO BRING THAT CONNECTION POINT DOWN BETWEEN THE GARAGE AND THE HOUSE AND MAKE THAT MAYBE A ONE STORY TO WHERE THEN YOU GO UP, UH, AND AND YOU DON'T HAVE THAT CONNECTION POINT, UH, IN DOING THAT. MAYBE THAT WOULD FREE UP SOME SPACE WHERE THE STAIRS ARE NOW TO MOVE THE KITCHEN TO THE OUTSIDE WALL, THEN THAT GIVES US THAT SPACE BACK THAT WE WERE PUSHING IN. SO, YOU KNOW, FOR ME, I'M ALWAYS TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT. I'M TRYING TO, I'M ALWAYS PROBLEM SOLVING. SO [01:50:01] IT, UH, I THINK THAT IT'S COMPLETELY UP TO BRAD ON HOW IT'S HIS HOUSE AND, UH, YOU KNOW, ME, I'LL DRAW ALL DAY LONG. SO, UM, IT, IT, SURE. BUT SAM, I THINK THE QUESTION IS, IS THE, IS THE APPLICANT WILLING TO DEFER THE PRO? WOULD THEY, WOULD THEY SUPPORT DEFERRING THE PROJECT OR WOULD THEY LIKE AN OPEN UP OR DOWN VOTE? UM, WELL, I'D LIKE APPROVAL, BUT, UM, I GUESS IF I, IF I ASK FOR DEFERRAL, I JUST NEED MORE CLARITY AS TO WHAT, UH, COMMISSIONER COSGROVE SAYS WORK ON THE WEST SIDE. UH, UH, COMMISSIONER HICK SAYS SEPARATE 'EM, SOMEONE ELSE SAID BUILD A WALKWAY. CAN I GET CLARITY AS TO WHAT YOU'RE ASKING ME? BECAUSE YOU MAY BE ASKING FOR MORE THAN I, I CAN DO AND IF I DO, I JUST SOON LET'S GO FOR A VOTE AND MOVE ON. AND, UH, I, I DON'T KNOW. I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'LL DO NEXT, BUT, UH, I THINK WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR IS TO RETAIN A LITTLE MORE OF THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE. SO LOOK AT WAYS TO LIKE, FOR CAUSE PERMISSION OR COSGROVE WOULD BE PRESERVE THAT FOURTH CORNER, BUT REDUCE THE MASSING OF THE STRUCTURE TO BETTER RETAIN ITS ORIGINAL LOOK AND ITS ORIGINAL FEEL. AND DO YOU HAVE THOUGHTS ON THAT? I MEAN, BECAUSE UNLESS YOU WANT ME JUST TO BUILD A BOX IN THE BACKYARD, I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO. I HAVE PUT MINIMAL UPSTAIRS. I MEAN, I HAVE ONE BEDROOM AND A BATHROOM, AND THEN I'M OUT IN THE ORIGINAL SPACE IN A DORMER FOR A SECOND BEDROOM. I DON'T KNOW HOW TO REDUCE THE MASSING. SO, I MEAN, YOU'RE GETTING A LOT OF DIFFERENT OPINIONS HERE ON PEOPLE FROM PEOPLE SAYING HOW TO REDUCE THE MASSING, BUT WHAT WE'RE ALL SAYING IS REDUCE THE MASSING IN. RIGHT. SO I DON'T, I DON'T WANNA TELL YOU WHAT TO DO OR NOT TO DO MM-HMM . 'CAUSE THAT'S NOT MY JOB HERE. BUT WHAT WE'RE ALL SAYING COLLECTIVELY AS A COMMISSION IS TO REDUCE THE MASSING. AND THEY'VE GIVEN YOU THREE DIFFERENT OPTIONS OF HOW TO DO SO, THREE DIFFERENT IDEAS ON HOW TO DO. SO. UH, MAY I JUST ADD THAT IT, A COUPLE HAVE BEEN TIMES IT'S BEEN SAID THAT IT'S A BEAUTIFUL HOUSE THAT EVEN IN ITS, UH, AT IT ARRIVES AT CONTRIBUTING HOUSE STATUS, UH, WITH SOME MODIFICATIONS ALREADY, STILL, WE SORT OF ADMIRE ITS ORIGINAL PROPORTIONS DEFINED BY THOSE FOUR CORNERS AND AS A, AS A FREESTANDING THING. SO RIGHT, WHEN YOU PUT SOMETHING UP, UP NEXT TO IT THAT'S TWO STORIES HIGH THAT TENDS TO MASK THAT OR THAT THAT INTEGRITY OF THAT EXISTING HOUSE. SO WE'RE ASKING CAN YOU FIND A SOLUTION, UM, THAT LEAVES THAT LEGIBLE, LEAVES THE ORIGINAL ONE LEGIBLE. AND I WOULD JUST ADD, I MEAN, AS I'VE SAID TO ME THAT READS IS IF YOU CAN RETAIN THAT FOURTH CORNER, THEN I FEEL LIKE THAT ORIGINAL HOUSE IS, IS WHOLE TO SOME DEGREE. AND IF YOU WANT TO ADD ONTO THE BACK OF IT TWO STORY LIKE YOU'VE DONE, I MEAN, WE DO APPROVED PROJECTS LIKE THAT ALL THE TIME. I MEAN, THAT IS A COMMON THING IN THE HISTORIC HEIGHTS, HISTORIC DISTRICTS. WE REQUIRE PEOPLE TO MAINTAIN THE FOUR CORNERS AND HAVE INSETS. I MEAN, SO, YOU KNOW, I DON'T, YOU KNOW, THIS HOUSE IS, IS DEFINITELY SPECIAL AND THAT WOULD BE MY, THE DIRECTION I WOULD GO. SO IF I MAINTAIN THAT CORNER AND THEN BUMPED OUT IN FRONT OF IT, DOES THAT SATISFY YOU TO THE BACK? I WOULD SAY IF IT GOES TO THE BACK AS OPPOSED TO THE SIDE, I WOULD SAY THAT'S LIKELY TO BE BETTER RECEIVED. I'M, WE'RE NOT GONNA GO TO THE BACK, SO, BUT IT SEEMS THAT YOU COULD MAINTAIN THE CORNER AND GO BACK NOT ANY FARTHER THAN YOU HAVE AND STILL GET SOME RELIEF AS COMPARED TO MAINTAINING THE ORIGINAL WALL FOOTPRINT. YEAH, WE'VE TRIED A LOT OF OPTIONS. I DON'T KNOW MR. I, I ACTUALLY, I LIKE THE SUGGESTION THAT, UH, WE WERE JUST BOUNCING OFF, RIGHT? AND I LIKE THE SUGGESTION THAT, UH, SAM CAME UP WITH, UH, AND THE FACT THAT WE ARE TRYING TO GET ALL EVERYBODY'S CONCERN TAKEN CARE OF. SAM, YOU MENTIONED VERY BRIEFLY THAT YOU COULD KEEP THE FOURTH CORNER RIGHT? MAKE THE WALLS GO STRAIGHT BACK, BUT THEN AT THE SAME TIME, THEN TAKE AWAY THE STAIRCASE FROM THAT, FROM THAT OTHER OPPOSITE SIDE AND JUST BUMP, DON'T USE THE WALL IN BETWEEN AND BUMP IT ALL THE WAY OUT THERE. AND THEN FROM THERE, THE STAIRCASE GOES INTO THE GARAGE GOING UPSTAIRS IN THAT. SO THAT WOULD BE OKAY TO BUMP OUT ON THE EAST SIDE TO GET A STAIRCASE IN. THAT WOULD BE OKAY. UH, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE EAST SIDE OF THE GARAGE ON THE SIDE OF THE GARAGE DOING A, A, A, A MUD ROOM TYPE OF SITUATION WHERE YOU COME INTO THE GARAGE AND YOU GO UP TO THE STAIRS TO THE MASTER, OR YOU GO INTO THE HOUSE CORRECT. WAY. SO THEN YOU, AND THAT WOULD REDUCE ALL OF THAT DOWN TO A ONE STORY AREA. AND SO THAT WOULD GIVE YOU THAT CLEAR VIEW THROUGH THAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT, RIGHT? YES. I LIKE [01:55:01] THAT SUGGESTION. I THINK IT WORKS. IT, IT KILLS ALL THESE BIRDS HERE, BASICALLY. SO THINK ABOUT THAT. MR. THANK YOU. YEAH. MR. S IT FEELS LIKE A DEFERRAL WOULD BE GOOD IN THIS CASE. AND I HAVE TO SAY, YOU'VE BEEN A VERY ELOQUENT SPEAKER AND, AND YOU'VE BEEN, UH, YOU KNOW, VERY EFFECTIVELY COMMUNICATING, YOU KNOW, YOUR THOUGHTS AND OF, AND OF YOUR WIFE WHO'S NOT HERE IN PERSON. BUT MY, MY SENSE IS, IS IF YOU'D BE WILLING TO DEFER, I THINK THE COMMISSION WOULD BE ACCEPTING OF THAT AND THEN WOULD WORK WITH YOU. OKAY. I'LL TAKE YOUR ADVICE. THANK YOU. MR. COSGROVE, DO YOU HAVE A MOTION? ? I MOVE TO DEFER. OKAY. IS THERE SECOND? SECOND. SECOND. YEP. SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. UH, ANY OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTIONS? MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU, TERRANCE. I, IT COULD BE A LONG TIME. I KNOW. AND TERRANCE, I WOULD JUST OFFER THAT IF YOU NEED ANYBODY TO ACCOMPANY ON A SITE VISIT, I WOULD BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO VOLUNTEER MY TIME. THANK YOU, SIR. I, I'D LIKE TO ADD THAT AS, AS RELATIVELY COMPLEX AS THE ISSUES ARE ON THIS ONE PROPOSAL, UH, THE INFORMATION INCLUDING THE PAST, UH, SUBMITTAL IS, IS EXTREMELY CLEAR. AND I WANTED TO THANK YOU FOR THAT. THANK YOU. MM-HMM . I, I WOULD CAUTION THAT WITH, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THE SANBORN IN OUR APPLICATION PACKAGE ALWAYS, EVERY TIME I, I FULLY TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THAT. THAT'S, THAT'S MY FAULT. I'M SORRY, YOUR HONOR. AND, AND BS, UH, OTHER BESIDES SANDBORN, IF THERE ISN'T FROM HARRIS COUNTY AS WELL. THANKS. UNDERSTOOD. OKAY, THANK YOU. WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON TO ITEM B, COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC. OKAY. NOT HEARING, UH, WE'RE GOING TO MOVE TO ITEM C, COMMENTS FROM THE HAHC COMMISSION MEMBERS. UM, MR. CHAIR, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF, PLEASE. UH, UM, ROMAN, CAN YOU, CAN YOU, UH, SPEAK TO THE FACT THAT WHY DID, DID, UH, ITEM NUMBER FOUR, THE HARVARD GARAGE CONSTRUCTION GARAGE APARTMENT, WHY DOES IT NEED TO COME TO A CO COMMISSION AS OPPOSED TO IT BEING ADMINISTRATIVE? APPRO APPROVED A LITTLE OVER THE SQUARE FOOTAGE ALLOWED FOR AA. IT WAS A LITTLE OVER THE SQUARE FOOTAGE ALLOWED 600. IT'S, IT'S A LITTLE BIGGER THAN 600. I THINK IT'S SIX 20 OR SIX 30 OR SOMETHING. MORE THAN, SO THIS IS ONLY FOR THE HEIGHTS, I PRESUME. OH, OKAY. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. I WAS, I WAS PERPLEXED WHEN I READ THROUGH THAT. THANKS, CHAIRMAN. MAY I ASK AND ONE MORE QUESTION WHILE WE GOT ROLLING UP AT THE, AT THE PODIUM, PLEASE. UH, ITEM ONE, UH, THE LANDMARK DESIGNATION FOR 2105 BRENTWOOD. IT WAS APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS. SO WERE THE, WERE THE CONDITIONS, UM, WHAT WERE THE CONDITIONS? I WONDER, I THINK WE WERE IN THE PACKET. IT'S IN THE PACKET. IT'S OKAY. I'LL FIND IT. I, I'LL LOOK, I'LL LOOK HOW TO LINE. AGREE. OKAY. THANK YOU MR. JACKSON. UM, I ALSO HAVE A QUESTION FOR ROMAN AND STAFF TAYLOR, MAYBE. UM, I, THIS HAS BECOME EVEN MORE APPARENT AFTER OUR CAMP SESSION, UM, UH, LAST, LAST MONTH. UM, THE NEED FOR THE COMMISSION TO KIND OF HAVE A FOLLOW UP SESSION TO SET SOME OF THE POLICIES THAT WE TALK THAT WE STARTED TALKING ABOUT. THERE WASN'T A LOT OF TIME DURING THAT SESSION TO HAVE DISCUSSION AMONG OURSELVES ABOUT WHERE WE AS A COMMISSION WANT TO GO AND WHERE, WHERE WE SIT ON SOME OF THESE, UM, SUBJECTIVE ISSUES. SO I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO, AND, AND OFFER TO TAKE THE LEAD ON, UM, YOU KNOW, WORKING WITH STAFF TO SCHEDULE THAT FOLLOW UP ALONG THOSE LINES. ROMAN, I KNOW THE CAMP, UM, FACILITATORS HAS SAID THAT THEY WOULD SUPPLY US ALL OF THE MATERIALS AND PRESENTATIONS AND EVERYTHING. UM, I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, THAT WE GET THOSE DISTRIBUTED. AND THEN TAYLOR, I'D LOVE TO WORK TOGETHER THIS FALL TO FIND ANOTHER, A DEDICATED TIME WHEN WE CAN COME TOGETHER WITH AN AGENDA JUST TO FOCUS ON THOSE ISSUES THAT WE RAISED DURING. YEAH, SURE. SO, UM, WE'VE ALREADY DISCUSSED THIS STAFF AND HAVE GONE OVER DIFFERENT IDEAS THAT WE LEARNED AT CAMP, BUT WE CAN DEFINITELY SET UP SOMETHING WHERE WE CAN ALL COME TOGETHER AND DISCUSS THAT. AND THEN AS A REMINDER, WE, I KNOW WE HAVE ETHICS TRAINING AS WELL, THAT'S SEPARATE, BUT WE, WE DO HAVE THAT COMING UP IN SEPTEMBER AS WELL. AND MAYBE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT, UM, LEGAL CAN SPEAK ON CAN BE ADDRESSED THERE AS WELL. THANK YOU FOR THE IDEA. THANK YOU. UM, COMMISSIONER JACKSON, UH, CAN THE PRESENTATION BE GIVEN TO LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, A VIRGINIA WOLF FROM NOR HILL AS WELL, SO THAT AS THEY ARE DOING THE DESIGN GUIDELINES, WHICH IS THEN HELPS MAYBE SEAR THAT A LITTLE BIT SO [02:00:01] THEN IT BECOME, THEN IT WON'T BECOME THAT CONTENTIOUS MAYBE WHEN WE COME TO OUR, YOU KNOW, BIG POWWOW VIRGINIA KELSEY. HUH? I THINK YOU MET VIRGINIA KELSEY. WHO, KELSEY, YEAH. HE DID ATTEND PART OF CAMP, UH, AS I RECALL. YEAH. BUT I DO THINK, UM, AND MAYBE IT'S, IT'S MORE ALSO JUST A OPEN WORKSHOP OPEN TO THE PUBLIC WHERE WE CAN TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS AGAIN WITH THE APPEALS BOARD AS ALWAYS. UM, SO THAT, YOU KNOW, IT CAN BE, UM, I MEAN, WHAT WE WERE, WE HAD A PRESENTATION, WE WERE ABLE TO ASK QUESTIONS, THERE WAS SOME DIALOGUE BACK AND FORTH, BUT IT WAS, YOU KNOW, FROM THE PRESENTERS, UH, FROM DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE COUNTRY. I THINK I, WHAT I CAN IMAGINE IS HAVING A WORKSHOP WHERE WE, WITH AN AGENDA, YOU KNOW, TO GO WORK THROUGH THESE THINGS. I CAN IMAGINE, UM, FIELD TRIPS COULD BE INVOLVED, UH, YOU KNOW, FOR SOME OF THESE ITEMS WE MAY NEED TO TAKE A FIELD TRIP, UH, TO LOOK AT SOME ITEMS. AND SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, UH, THAT WOULD BE GOOD. YEAH, I THINK A STANDALONE EVENT OPPOSED TO LIKE COUPLING IT WITH THE ETHICS. I MEAN, I, I THINK WE NEED THE TIME TO LIKE HASH A FEW THINGS OUT. AND I AGREE. I'M SURE, YOU KNOW, I'M ALWAYS ON FOR THE FIELD TRIP. , I, I ECHO, I MEAN, I LOVE A FIELD TRIP. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU DO FOUR HOURS OF CONVERSATION AND FOUR HOURS OF FIELD TRIP OR TO TRY TO MAKE IT ONE DAY, BUT FOR ME, THERE'S NOTHING MORE IMPORTANT AT THIS POINT EXCEPT TO HAVE EVERYBODY SITTING AROUND THE CIRCLE RIGHT NOW TO JUST SIT AND HAVE CONVERSATIONS, BRING THE APPEALS BOARD IN, FIND OUT WHAT THEY BELIEVE ABOUT WHAT THEY GET SENT. RIGHT. AND CERTAINLY, AND, AND IT, IT'S NOT ETHICS TRAINING, IT'S NOT A CAMP, THERE'S NO OUTSIDE PERSON. IT'S JUST US CONVERSING AND, AND, AND LEARNING MORE ABOUT EACH OTHER AND FINDING SOME COMMON GROUND AND, AND, AND SURE. I THINK IT WOULD STILL BE A PUBLIC MEETING BECAUSE WE CAN'T GET TOGETHER WITHOUT A PUBLIC MEETING. BUT, BUT, BUT CERTAINLY YEAH, IT'D BE A CONVERSATION AND A DIALOGUE. YEAH. BUT SEPARATE FROM ANY FIELD TRIP IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? SAYING I THINK SO, BUT I'M JUST SAYING I CAN IMAGINE AS LIKE THIS MAY BE MORE THAN A ONE WORKSHOP. WE, WE MAY, I MEAN THERE ARE MANY THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT AT CAMP, SO I THINK SOME OF THEM MAY REQUIRE SOME FOLLOW UP AND I DON'T KNOW HOW TO BEST ARRANGE IT EITHER. BUT I WAS THINKING ABOUT THE LAST FIELD TRIP AND HOW THAT ENDED UP BEING SOME OF WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TOO. RIGHT. AND INEVITABLY WE, WE TOOK THOSE KIND OF CASE STUDIES AND SHARED OPINIONS REALLY ABOUT SPAWN CONVERSATIONS. YEAH, IT ALWAYS DOES FOR SURE. IT'S THE POINT OF TAKING IT LIKE YOU APPROVE THAT, OH MY GOD, . IT PUTS THE PROJECTS IN CONTEXT, WHICH IS WHAT IS OFTEN LACK LACKING IN THIS SETTING, WHICH ACTUALLY DAVID AND I WERE DISCUSSING WALKING OVER HERE WITH HOW NICE IT WOULD BE IN THE FUTURE IN OUR PACKETS IS TO PUT MORE OF THE STREET OF THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES IN THE FRONT PHOTO, LIKE TO GIVE US AN IDEA OF WHAT'S TO THE LEFT AND THE RIGHT. BECAUSE OFTEN THE PHOTOS ARE JUST VERY MUCH THE SUBJECT PROPERTY AND IT WOULD BE GOOD TO SEE LIKE THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES. IT HELPS WITH SCALE, IT HELPS WITH THE RELATIONSHIP OF ADDITIONS AND STUFF IS, AND I WAS LOOKING AT SAM'S 3D VIEWS OF, OF THAT LAST PROJECT AND I COMMENTED TO COMMISSIONER COUCH. IT'S FROM IT, IT'S A LOOKING UP 3D VIEW. AND I'M WONDERING IF THAT'S WHAT MISLED US ON THAT OTHER PROJECT THAT WE DID APPROVE. AND I DON'T KNOW HOW TO, IF THAT'S JUST HIS SOFTWARE, BUT SO ADDITIONAL PHOTOGRAPHS OF CONTACT AREA, TRYING TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW IT DOES FIT INTO THE AREA WOULD BE USUALLY SAM DOES IT LIKE SIX FOOT FROM THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET. THAT'S BEEN HIS NORMAL, I MEAN, IF THAT HELPS YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT THE PERSPECTIVE HE'S LOOKING STANDING HEIGHT ROUGHLY. YEAH, STANDING HEIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET. AND AS SOMEONE WHO WALKS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, YOU'D BE SURPRISED. MOST OF THE PROJECTS WE DO APPROVE, LIKE IN THE HEIGHTS, IF YOU'RE WALKING IN THE STREET, YOU, YOU DON'T REALLY SEE THE ADDITIONS THAT OFTEN. I MEAN, I CAN SPEAK . I, I CAN ACTUALLY ATTEST TO THAT. I WAS IN TWO PROJECTS WHERE SAM WAS THE, UH, WE LIKE A MEETING ON SITE AND WE ACTUALLY STOOD IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET TO GET A PERSPECTIVE VIEW, NOT FROM DRAWINGS. AND, AND I THINK THAT REALLY WORKS WELL. AND THEN, THEN I CAN HAVE A 360 AROUND THE HOUSE TOO, LIKE EVERY HOUSE. THAT WAS GREAT. I UNDERSTAND. BUT I THINK LIKE THE PROJECT THAT YOU'RE REFERENCING, UM, THAT, THAT WAS LARGER IN SCALE TO THE, THE ONE STORY HOUSE NEXT TO IT. I MEAN ANOTHER ASPECT, UM, IS THAT THE LOT WAS RAISED BY MAYBE TWO FEET IN HEIGHT. THE GRADE WAS RAISED TWO FEET AND SO THE GRADE ARTIFICIALLY PUMPED, YOU KNOW, WAS TWO FEET HIGHER THAN THE GRADE ADJACENT TO IT. SO IT, IT, IT ALSO PUMPED UP THE MASSING. AND AGAIN, BUT AGAIN, I THINK IF WE COULD HAVE SEEN THE, THERE WAS A SITE VISIT FOR THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTY THAT TWO COMMISSIONERS WENT OUT AND THEN, THEN THAT PHOTOGRAPH WAS SHARED WITH COMMISSION AND THAT'S, AND THAT SHOWED THE CONTRAST BETWEEN THE SCALE OF [02:05:01] THE HOUSE ADJACENT TO THE ONE THAT HAS BEEN FRAMED. BUT AGAIN, THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT WOULD BE TAKEN FIELD TRIPS AND TO SEE THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. THAT'S, THEY'VE BEEN VERY HELPFUL FOR US, ROMAN. WITH THAT, I'M GONNA TURN IT OVER TO ITEM D, HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICER'S REPORT. I REALLY, UH, JUST WANTED FIRST ETHICS TRAINING IF YOU DON'T ALREADY HAVE IT MARKED DOWN. I THINK, I THINK WE'RE LOOKING AT SEPTEMBER 26TH. I DUNNO IF THAT'S ON Y'ALL'S CALENDAR. SEPTEMBER 26TH. IS THAT PLACEHOLDER? OKAY. THAT'S IT. OKAY. TWO 30. UM, THAT'S ALL THAT, UM, I REALLY DON'T HAVE MUCH ELSE. I, I WANNA SAY, UH, HAPPY BIRTHDAY. I THINK ONE OF OUR COMMISSIONERS HAS A BIRTHDAY OVER HERE. IT'S RHONDA SE SEBU. UH, AND OTHER THAN THAT, I'M JUST WANNA THANK YOU FOR THE MEETING AND I, I, WE TOOK ALL THESE POINTS, THE CONTACT PHO CONTEXT PHOTOS, YOU KNOW, WE YAM POINTED OUT. WE HAVE 'EM IN THERE, BUT I THINK IT'S HOW WE PRESENT THEM. UM, AND WE, WE DO NEED TO DO THAT. UM, AND, UH, WE'RE WORKING ON SOME EFFICIENCIES INTERNALLY THAT'LL PROBABLY ALLOW US TO FOCUS MORE ON THE ITEMS THAT WE'RE BRINGING TO YOU SO THAT THEY DO HAVE, UH, AS MUCH AND YOU KNOW, AS MUCH, UH, INFORMATION AS POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THE DECISIONS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU ROMAN. WE ARE ADJOURNED. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.