* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. THE [00:00:01] OPINIONS EXPRESSED ON LATINA VOICES AND ITS GUESTS [Latina Voices (#128): "Lisa Falkenberg & Yaffa Fredrick of the Houston Chronicle"] DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THE OPINIONS OF HT V TELEVISION OR THE CITY OF HOUSTON. TODAY. ON LATINA VOICES, IT IS ABOUT THE POWER OF THE PEN, OPINION AND REPORTING. WE WELCOME PULITZER PRIZE WINNERS, MEDIA THOUGHT LEADERS, LISA FALKENBERG AT THE HELM OF THE HOUSTON CHRONICLES EDITORIAL BOARD, LEADING THE PAPER'S, OPINION OUTLOOK SECTIONS, INCLUDING LETTERS, OP-EDS AND ESSAYS. AND YAFFA FREDERICK, THE LOCAL POLITICAL GOVERNMENT EDITOR LEADING A TEAM, POLITICS OF REPORTERS COVERING CITY AND COUNTY POLITICS. LATINA VOICES, SMART TALK. I AM HOST AND PRODUCER, TEXAS SUPER LAWYER. SOPHIA GUE. LATINA VOICES IS ABOUT UNIVERSAL TOPICS. FROM A LATINA PERSPECTIVE, WE'RE GOING TO ENGAGE, EDUCATE, AND EMPOWER WITH SOME SMART TALKS. YES, HONORARY LATINA, THEY CAN BE HONORARY, A NATIVE OF SINE AND A MOTHER OF FREE. LISA IS A TWO TIME PULITZER PRIZE WINNING JOURNALIST WHO HAS COVERED TEXAS FOR MORE THAN 20 YEARS, WRITING FIRST A METRO COLUMN AT THE CHRONICLE FOR MORE THAN A DECADE. YAFFA IS A PULITZER PRIZE WINNER, HERSELF, FORMER SENIOR POLITICAL EDITOR FOR CNN DIGITAL, AS WELL AS THE FORMER MANAGING EDITOR OF THE WORLD'S POLICY JOURNAL. CUMULATIVELY THEY HAVE SUCCESSFULLY ENGAGED AS JOURNALISTS FOR OVER 30 YEARS, AS I WOULD SAY, GRIT, GRIND, AND GRAVITAS PERSONIFIED. WHAT IS S IT'S THOSE THAT HAVE SUCCEEDED. YOUR RECIPE FOR SUCCESS DEFINED AS YOU WISH. LISA, WELCOME TO LATINA VOICES. YOU THEN N ALRIGHT, WE'LL SWITCH TO ENGLISH. LET'S, WHAT, UM, THE SUCCESS FOR YOU, HOW DID IT, HOW DID IT, WHAT DID IT TAKE? HOW DID YOU GET THERE? MIDDLE CHILD SYNDROME, , ALWAYS WANTING TO GET MY PARENTS' ATTENTION. UM, SO I COME FROM, MY FATHER'S A TRUCK DRIVER. I COME FROM A HOUSE THAT DIDN'T HAVE MANY BOOKS. UM, AND I HAD THIS ANNOYING CURIOSITY. AND, UM, EVERY NOW AND THEN MY DAD WOULD GO TO THE WORLD BOOK ENCYCLOPEDIAS AND TRY TO FIND THE ANSWER FOR ME. AND IT KIND OF VALIDATED MY CURIOSITY. SO THE IDEA THAT THERE IS A JOB WHERE I CAN ASK AS MANY QUESTIONS AS I WANT. PEOPLE DON'T HAVE TO ANSWER 'EM, BUT I CAN JUST KEEP ASKING QUESTIONS AND I GET PAID FOR. IT IS MY DREAM JOB. THE OTHER THING IS FINDING SOMETHING THAT I BELIEVE IN. UM, I BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF JOURNALISM TO MAKE THE WORLD BETTER. IT SOUNDS IDEALISTIC TO SOME PEOPLE. UM, BUT I REALLY DO FEEL THAT WAY AND I FEEL LIKE I'VE ACCOMPLISHED THAT. AND IT'S WHAT WAKES ME UP IN THE MORNING, KEEPS ME DRIVING FORWARD. WELL, THAT WAS SO AUTHENTIC. I WANNA GET BACK TO THE ENCYCLOPEDIA. WE'RE IN THE SAME VINTAGE. WE ALSO USED TO PULL OUT THE ENCYCLOPEDIA, AND I COMMEND YOU BECAUSE THE PULITZER PRIZES YOU'VE WON, WHICH WE'LL REFERENCE THEM LATER, SO EARNED AND YOU CHANGED LIVES. I MEAN, THE POWER OF THE PEN, THE POWER OF WHAT YOU DID, HAD RAMIFICATIONS THAT MATTER FOR A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF PEOPLE, NOT IN HOUSTON ALONE, TEXAS. AND I SURMISE THE, THE NATION WAS WATCHING. SO THANK YOU FOR THAT. THAT'S HOW I FIRST HEARD OF YOU. I SAID, WHO THE HECK IS THIS WOMAN? YAFFA, RELATIVELY NEW TO NEW YORK, FROM NEW YORK. WELCOME TO HOUSTON. AND YOU'VE TAKEN IT BY STORM. A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR SUCCESS FACTOR. THANK YOU. I HATE TO ADMIT THIS AS A NEW YORKER, BUT I ACTUALLY THINK THE NUMBER ONE FACTOR FOR ME HAS BEEN EMPATHY. A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE NOT EMPATHETIC. AND WHEN I SAY THAT, I MEAN THEY DON'T REALLY LISTEN TO OTHER PEOPLE. THEY'RE TOO BUSY THINKING OF THEIR NEXT THOUGHT, UH, THAT THEY DON'T ACTUALLY HEAR, HEAR WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING AND HEAR WHAT PEOPLE AREN'T SAYING. AND I FOUND AS A JOURNALIST, THE ABILITY TO LISTEN INTENTLY, UH, WITH THAT LEVEL OF SKILL HAS HELPED ME BOTH BUILD TRUST WITH SOURCES WHO HAVE GIVEN ME TREMENDOUS STORIES THAT I'VE WORKED ON, BUT ALSO WITHIN NEWSROOMS WITH PEOPLE WHO REPORT INTO ME, PEOPLE WHO I REPORT INTO. THE ABILITY TO UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE ARE NOT JUST WORKHORSES AREN'T THE SUM OF AN INDIVIDUAL EXPERIENCE, BUT THAT THERE'S COMPLEXITY AND NUANCE, I THINK HAS CONTRIBUTED SIGNIFICANTLY TO IT. UH, THE OTHER THING IS I GIVE 125% TO EVERYTHING THAT I DO. I DON'T KNOW HOW TO GIVE LESS. AND IT'S A PASSION. AND SIMILAR TO LISA, I REALLY DO BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF JOURNALISM TO MOVE MOUNTAINS AND HAVE WORKED ON STORIES WHERE I'VE SEEN THAT KIND OF IMPACT. AND IT'S THE REASON I GET UP EVERY DAY. AND I THINK THAT THAT IS CRITICAL. IF THERE'S EVER SOMETHING I DON'T FEEL PASSIONATE ABOUT, A STORY I DON'T FEEL PASSIONATE ABOUT, YOU MIGHT SEE THAT REFLECT IN MY WORK. SO I HAVE TO GIVE IT 125. WELL, I'LL SAY THE 1 25. THAT IS THE GR GRIND AND GRAVITAS. ALL THREE OF US WE'RE EITHER GO BIG OR GO HOME AND WE DON'T GO HOME. WE'LL BE BACK WITH MORE LATINA VOICES IN A MOMENT. [00:05:08] UNDOUBTEDLY, THE JOURNALISM PROFESSION FINDS ITSELF AT A PIVOTAL POINT. SEVERE FINANCIAL PRESS PRESSURES, LOSS OF SUBSCRIPTIONS, A NEW GENERATION LESS COMMITTED OR LOYAL TO A PARTICULAR NEWS OUTLET. THAT SAID, THE IMPORT OF TRANSPARENT PUBLIC DISCOURSE REMAINS CLEAR. LISA, EDUCATE US ON THIS DISTINCTION BETWEEN OPINION JOURNALISM VERSUS NEWS REPORTING AND ITS NECESSITY TODAY. AND WITHIN THIS CONTEXT, I KNOW YOU CAN HANDLE ALL OF THIS. WE WELCOME AN APPRECIATION. WE ALL WANNA KNOW FOR THE ELECTION ENDORSEMENT PROCESS, YOUR TEAM UNDERTAKES AND GIVEN THE SEASON IS UNDERTAKEN, FIRST A BIT ABOUT OPINION JOURNALISM, PLEASE EDUCATE US. SO SOME PEOPLE THINK THAT OPINION JOURNALISM IS AN OXYMORON. THEY THINK THAT JOURNALISM IS STRICTLY ABOUT FACTS, AND THAT'S WHAT REPORTING IS. IT BEGINS AND ENDS WITH FACTS, OPINION, JOURNALISM BEGINS WITH FACTS. AND THEN WE GO FARTHER. WE TRY TO ANALYZE, WE TRY TO DO ENOUGH REPORTING ON MY STAFF, ON THE EDITORIAL BOARD TO FIGURE OUT SOMETIMES WHO'S RIGHT, WHO'S WRONG TO USE WISDOM, LIFE EXPERIENCE, ALL THESE KINDS OF THINGS TO COME TO A CONCLUSION OR AN OPINION THAT HELPS PEOPLE MAKE SENSE OF REALLY COMPLICATED ISSUES. AND I, I FIND THAT INVALUABLE. UM, OUR, MANY OF OUR READERS DO AS WELL. UM, THERE ARE NEWSPAPERS ACROSS THE COUNTRY THAT ARE GETTING RID OF THEIR OPINION SECTIONS. AND WHY, BECAUSE I THINK SOME SEE IT AS SUPERFLUOUS. SOME SEE IT AS OH, WE'VE GOTTA CUT CORNERS, WE'VE GOTTA, UM, WE WANNA KEEP AS MANY REPORTERS AS WE CAN. AND OPINION IS FLUFF. I HAVE DONE EVERYTHING IN MY POWER TO MAKE SURE AT THE HOUSTON CHRONICLE OPINION IS NECESSARY. IT IS VITAL. WE SOMETIMES BREAK STORIES, NOT JUST WITH EDITORIALS, BUT WITH PEOPLE WHO COME TO US WITH OP-EDS. THEY'RE GIVING US PUBLIC OFFICIALS, VARIOUS, UH, MEMBERS OF OUR COMMUNITY. THEY'RE GIVING US THEIR PERSPECTIVE IN THIS OP-ED THAT YOU CAN'T FIND ANYWHERE ELSE. TO ME, I REALLY DO THINK IT'S, UH, AND I KNOW WE NEED TO PIVOT TO, UM, TO THE OTHER ENDORSEMENT, BUT IT IS THE PULSE. I THINK YOU GET A SENSE. I LOOK FOR IT. THAT'S THE FIRST THING I HAVE TO TELL YOU I DO ON SUNDAY. I WANNA SEE WHAT'S THERE BECAUSE OKAY, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT'S CATCHING THE MOMENT. I'VE PREVIOUSLY HEARD YOU SAY, AND I LOVE THIS, THE MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS, THE OPPORTUNITY TO SAY, EXTEND A LITTLE BIT ON THAT. AND THEN LET'S TALK ABOUT THE ENDORSEMENT EFFORT. THESE WORDS WE USE IN JOURNALISM ARE SOMETIMES CONFUSING. THE EDITORIAL BOARD IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE INSTITUTIONAL VOICE. WE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE NEWSROOM. WE, OUR WORK IS INFORMED BY THE REPORTING THAT THE NEWSROOM DOES, BUT THE NEWSROOM DOES NOT HELP US MAKE EDITORIAL DECISIONS. AND THEN OP-ED USED TO MEAN OPPOSITE OF THE OP-ED, I'M SORRY, OPPOSITE OF THE EDITORIAL PAGE. SO THE EDITORIALS SAYING THIS POSITION AND THEN WE RUN AN OP-ED THAT DISAGREES WITH US. AND SO WE REALLY TRY TO SEEK OUT VOICES THAT ARE DIVERSE, THAT ARE FRANKLY DIFFERENT FROM OURS ON A CERTAIN ISSUE. AND THERE'S, THERE'S A LOT OF VALUE IN THAT BECAUSE WE FACT CHECK THOSE OP-EDS. WELL, THE, THE CYCLE AND, AND, AND WHAT'S DONE, RIGHT, THIS IS A PROCESS THAT MANY PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND AND THEY SAY, WHY IS A NEWSPAPER ENDORSING CANDIDATES? I SAY, NEWSPAPER DOESN'T, THE EDITORIAL BOARD DOES. THE REASON WE DO THIS IS BECAUSE HARRIS COUNTY MAY HAVE THE LONGEST BALLOT IN THE WORLD IN SOME YEARS BECAUSE WE ELECT ALL OF OUR JUDGES. AND IT'S REALLY HARD TO, UH, YOU KNOW, TO RESEARCH ALL OF THESE CANDIDATES. SO WE ACTUALLY BRING THEM IN, UH, WE MEET WITH THE CANDIDATES, WE TRY TO HAVE THEM IN THE ROOM TOGETHER, WHICH SOMETIMES THEY FIGHT US. THEY DON'T WANNA SIT NEXT TO THIS PERSON WHO HAS COOTIES, I GUESS 'CAUSE THEY'RE ON A DIFFERENT PARTY. AND WE TRY TO ENGAGE THEM IN CONVERSATIONS THAT, YOU KNOW, CHALLENGE THEM ON ISSUES AND THEIR EXPERIENCE. AND THEN WE MAKE THE REALLY HARD DECISIONS OF RECOMMENDING CANDIDATES. WHEN WE RECOMMEND A CANDIDATE, IT DOESN'T MEAN I RUN OUT AND GET A CAMPAIGN SIGN AND PUT IT ON MY YARD. WE ARE NONPARTISAN JOURNALISTS. IT MEANS WE ARE SIMPLY USING THE BEST INFORMATION THAT WE HAVE AT THE TIME TO TELL THE VOTER WHO IS BEST FOR THAT DISTRICT, GIVEN ALL THE DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, FACTORS THAT GO INTO A DISTRICT. AND RIGHT NOW, WHAT IS THE LEADERSHIP THAT THIS CITY OR THIS JURISDICTION NEEDS A NEW INITIATIVE HAS EMERGED PRESS FORWARD FOR FUNDING JOURNALISM. THIS IS FASCINATING. WAS NOT AWARE TILL I STUDIED IN PREPARATION FOR THIS SHOW, ABOUT A FIFTH OF THE NATION LIVES IN SO-CALLED NEWS DESERTS WITH LITTLE OR NO RELIABLE COVERAGE OF MAJOR LO OR LOCAL [00:10:01] DEVELOPMENTS. RESEARCH INDICATES, AND THIS IS DRACONIAN, THAT 2,500 NEWSPAPERS MORE THAN A QUARTER IN THE UNITED STATES HAVE GONE OUT OF BUSINESS SINCE 2005 WHEN YOU COMMENCED THE CHRONICLE. SUCH A LOSS IS ACCOMPANIED INTERESTING BY A RISING CORRUPTION AND A DROP IN VOTER PARTICIPATION. YAFFA, THIS IS YOURS. YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS PHENOMENON AND PERHAPS CORRELATING TO THE FASCINATING DIGITAL SERIES THAT YOU DID AT CNN ON THE IMPACT OF COVID IN THE GENERATION. RESILIENT. YES. I MEAN, SADLY THIS STATISTIC DOESN'T SURPRISE ME AT ALL. UH, IT IS REALLY DIFFICULT TO SURVIVE AS A NEWSPAPER IN THIS COUNTRY. AND YOU ALLUDED TO IT IN YOUR OPENING REMARKS. SUBSCRIPTION RATES ARE DOWN. YOUNG PEOPLE, GEN ZERS AND MILLENNIALS IN PARTICULAR ARE NOT USED TO PAYING FOR MEDIA AND DON'T THINK THEY SHOULD HAVE TO PAY FOR MEDIA. AND SO THE MINUTE THERE IS A PAYWALL THAT IS INTRODUCED, IF THEY CAN'T GET AROUND IT, THEY MOVE ON TO THE NEXT OUTLET THAT IS FREE. AND I CAN SAY HAVING WORKED AT CNN FOR AS LONG AS I HAVE, WE WERE NOT BEHIND A PAYWALL. AND THE REASON WE HAD THE METRICS WE DID IS BECAUSE WE WERE NOT BEHIND A PAYWALL. UM, AND WHAT I DID WHEN I WAS AT CNN WAS REALLY TRY TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT, BUT ALSO SHINE A LIGHT ON THESE COMMUNITIES THAT WERE DESERTS WHEN IT CAME TO NEWS. AND SO WHEN COVID HIT, AND THIS WAS A STORY THAT IMPACTED EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US, WE GOT TOGETHER AND SAID, HOW ARE WE GONNA COVER THIS WHEN WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE OTHER OUTLETS THAT CAN'T DO THIS JUSTICE? AND WE DECIDED WE WERE GONNA FOCUS ON A PARTICULAR GROUP OF, WE'LL CALL THEM THE COVID PATIENTS. NOT THE ELDERLY FOLKS, NOT THE PEOPLE WITH PRECONDITIONS. THE YOUNG PEOPLE, THE KIDS WHOSE LIVES WERE GONNA BE TURNED UPSIDE DOWN BECAUSE OF THIS. BECAUSE EDUCATION, JOB OPPORTUNITIES, THEIR ACADEMIC EXPERIENCE WAS TOTALLY CHANGED. AND WE DID A CALL OUT, UH, THAT WE AIRED ON A COUPLE OF STATIONS. WE DID A COUPLE OF DIGITAL RIGHTS ON TO GATHER ALL OF THESE STUDENTS. AND I MUST HAVE INTERVIEWED 125 OF THEM, UH, AND GOT IT DOWN TO 20 FROM 20 DIFFERENT STATES. UM, YOU KNOW, ALL SORTS OF DIVERSITY INVOLVED. 'CAUSE OBVIOUSLY IF YOU WERE IN THE INNER CITY IN DETROIT, YOU HAD A VERY DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE THAN IF YOU WERE IN THE WOODLANDS HERE IN TEXAS. AND SO WE REALLY WANTED TO GET AT THAT AND GIVE THESE KIDS A PLATFORM. ONE, BECAUSE WE WANTED TO GET KIDS ENGAGED IN THE NEWS MAKING PROCESS. WE WANTED TO UNDERSTAND, WE WANTED THEM TO UNDERSTAND WHAT GOES INTO MAKING IT, HAVE AN APPRECIATION FOR IT, MAYBE SOMEDAY EVEN PAY FOR SOME OF IT. YES. UM, BUT WE ALSO WANTED TO BRING THOSE VOICES THAT I WILL SAY COMING FROM EAST COAST MEDIA ARE OFTEN LEFT OUT. RIGHT. AND, AND I NEED YOU TO DO LIKE A SUMMARY. WE'VE PROBABLY GOT A MINUTE JUST IN TERMS OF THE TAKEAWAY BECAUSE THIS IS FASCINATING. YEAH. SO I I I THINK THE KEY IS WE HAVE NEW GENERATIONS OF READERS. AND I WILL SAY HISTORICALLY NEWS HAS BEEN READ BY OLDER PEOPLE, NOT YOUNGER PEOPLE, BUT WE HAVE GENERATIONS OF READERS NOW WHO ARE NOT USED TO PAYING FOR MEDIA. AND WE HAVE TO MAKE A BETTER SALES PITCH FOR WHY THEY SHOULD, WHICH MEANS THAT WE NEED TO BE ENGAGING THEM IN THE NEWS MAKING PROCESS. WE NEED TO BE GOING TO THEM FOR STORY IDEAS. WE NEED TO BE INTERVIEWING THEM. WE NEED TO MAKE THEM FEEL LIKE THEIR VOICE MATTERS. BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS A LOT OF STUDIES, PSYCH STUDIES HAVE PROVEN IS THAT WHEN PEOPLE SEE THEMSELVES REFLECTED IN THE STORIES, THEY'RE MUCH MORE LIKELY TO READ THEM AND PAY FOR THEM. NO, THAT IS ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE. THERE'S SO MUCH MORE TO BE SAID, BUT REALLY, UM, THE MEDIA DESERTS, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S PROBLEMATIC. THAT IS ABSOLUTELY PROBLEMATIC. WE ARE GOING TO RETURN WITH MORE LATINA VOICES AFTER THIS. THANK YOU, LISA, SINCE YOU BEGAN THE FIELD OF JOURNALISM, HAS UNDENIABLY UNDERGONE MULTIPLE TRANSFORMATIONS IN THE LAST 20 PLUS YEARS AND CLEARLY MORE FORTHCOMING THOUGHTS AND REFLECTIONS ON THIS EVOLUTION? AND EASY QUESTION TO START IT OFF. YOU'RE TWO PULITZER PRIZE WINNER. YOU'VE GOT THIS WELL, YOU KNOW, SOME, SOME REPORTERS NOWADAYS KIND OF BEMOAN THE FACT THAT WE HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT CLICKS. WE HAVE TO, WE ACTUALLY HAVE WAYS TO MEASURE HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE READING WHAT STORIES AT WHAT TIME. AND I ALSO SEE IT AS AN OPPORTUNITY. WE GET TO KNOW MORE ABOUT WHAT READERS ARE INTERESTED IN, THINK FOR HOW LONG WE WERE PRINTING A PAPER AND WE JUST PUT IT OUT THERE INTO THE WORLD. WE DIDN'T KNOW WHETHER PEOPLE WERE READING, WHETHER THEY WERE FLIPPING PAST, UH, THE STORIES THAT WE WERE WRITING. AND SO NOW WE KNOW MORE. BUT WITH THAT KNOWLEDGE IS ALSO RESPONSIBILITY. AS HAA WAS SAYING, WE HAVE TO ACT ON THAT INFORMATION. AND SO, BUT NOT TOO MUCH. IT'S A LINE. I'M NOT JUST GOING TO DO CLICK BAIT, RIGHT? WE HAVE TO INFORM PEOPLE ABOUT THEIR COMMUNITY, BUT WE HAVE TO DO IT IN A WAY THAT INTERESTS THEM. SO HEADLINES THAT TYPICALLY WAS NOT, NOT SOMETHING THAT THE EDITOR OF THE EDITORIAL BOARD WOULD DO. AND IT'S A LOT OF MY JOB. THAT'S THE FRONT DOOR TO A STORY. IF YOU GET THE HEADLINE WRONG, IT'S BORING. IT DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH, UM, WHAT WE CALL SEO, WHICH IS [00:15:01] THE THING GOOGLE USES TO DECIDE WHETHER THEY'RE ELEVATING YOUR STORY OR NOT. IT WILL NOT GET READ. IT COULD BE THE MOST BEAUTIFUL THING EVER. IT WILL NOT BE READ. AND SO IT IS, UM, A LOT MORE RESPONSIBILITY ON US. BUT AS SCARY AS THIS MOMENT IS RIGHT NOW, IT'S ALSO REALLY EXCITING. YOU SEE ALL OF THIS INNOVATION, YOU SEE AS YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT KAFA, LIKE THE THE THINGS THAT PEOPLE ARE DOING TO REACH OUT TO READERSHIPS, WHETHER IT'S LIVE EVENTS OR IT'S, UM, YOU KNOW, FACEBOOK LIVE. UM, NEWSLETTERS ARE REALLY HOW A LOT OF READERS COME IN. YOU GET IT RIGHT IN YOUR INBOX AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO WHATEVER TYPE IN A URL OR GO TO A BOOKMARK OR, OR EVEN I LOVE THE HOUSTON CHRONICLE APP. THERE'S MY PLUG. OH, OKAY. BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE JUST WANT A NEWSLETTER. JUST PUT IT IN MY INBOX. YES. AND SO IT'S A TIME FOR INNOVATION. UM, BUT I WOULD JUST CREATIVITY AND CURIOSITY. YES. I THINK ON BOTH SIDES, RIGHT? YES. AND I WOULD JUST STRESS, IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THOUGH, THAT WE CANNOT DO THIS WORK IF PEOPLE AREN'T WILLING TO, TO PAY FOR IT. AND SO I OFTEN GET PEOPLE AROUND TOWN, HEY, WHY DON'T YOU PUT THIS IN FRONT OF THE PAYWALL OR WHATEVER WE CALL THAT. NOT PUT IT BEHIND THE PAYWALL, OFFER IT FOR FREE. THIS IS A PUBLIC SERVICE. THERE ARE TIMES THAT WE DO THAT. YES. UM, BUT IF WE DID THAT FOR EVERYONE, FOR EVERYTHING WHO ASKED, WE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO PAY THE REPORTERS AND THE WRITERS WHO DO THIS HARD WORK. RECENT ECONOMIST ARTICLE ENTITLED THE RISE OF THE ROBOT REPORTER. THAT IN OF ITSELF CAUGHT MY ATTENTION TALK ABOUT, I CLICKED, IMPLIES PROFOUND CHANGES TO THE NATURE OF THE NEWS CHAT, GTP AND ITS DEMONSTRATED CAPABILITIES AND THE PROFOUND IMPACT IT'S GOING TO HAVE ON JOURNALISM. AND ACCORDING TO WHAT I'M READING, I'M NOT THERE. AI DRIVEN INNOVATION IS NOW AN URGENT FOCUS ON LEADERSHIP TEAMS IN ALMOST EVERY NEWSROOM. YAFFA YOU ARE THE PERSON YOU RAN YOUR OWN EXPERIMENT WITH. JACK GDP TESTING AND OP-ED WRITING ABILITIES FOR WAR IN UKRAINE. CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE EXPERIMENT AND THE RAMIFICATIONS AND TAKEAWAYS SADLY IN LIKE PROBABLY TWO AND A HALF MINUTES? WHAT THE HECK YOU'VE GOT THIS? YEAH, NO, SO I MEAN, MY, MY JOB IS TO BE CLUED IN ON NEW DEVELOPMENTS. AND AI HAS ACTUALLY BEEN THERE FOR A LONG TIME, BUT IT HAS GOTTEN BETTER AND BETTER AND MORE SOPHISTICATED. AND THERE ARE NOW MORE VERSIONS OF IT. AND SO CHAT GBT IS THE ONE THAT PEOPLE ARE PROBABLY MOST FAMILIAR ABOUT OR FAMILIAR WITH. AND SO I DECIDED TO KIND OF TAKE THE TEST DIRECTLY TO CHAT GBT. SO ONE OF THE BIG STORIES I WAS COVERING WHILE I WAS AT CNN WAS THE WAR IN UKRAINE. AND THE REAL QUESTION EVERYONE KEPT ASKING IS, WHEN DOES IT END? AND WHO WILL WIN IT WHEN IT DOES? AND SO I DECIDED TO ASK CHAT GBT. SO I ACTUALLY CHALLENGED CHAT GBT WITH AN OP-ED TASK BEFORE NEWS WRITING TASK. AND UH, THE VERY FIRST TIME I DID THIS, I THINK IT WAS DECEMBER, 2022, SO NOT THAT LONG AGO, IT GENERATED AN OP-ED IN SEVEN MINUTES. IT WAS 750 WORDS. IT WAS A WELL ARGUED PIECE, BUT IT WAS FACTUALLY INCORRECT IN NUMEROUS PLACES. AND THAT'S WHY YOU NEED FACT CHECKING ON OP-EDS IN PARTICULAR. UM, I THEN REPLICATED THAT EXPERIMENT EVERY SINGLE MONTH. I WAS AT CNN BASICALLY UNTIL AUGUST OF THIS YEAR. AND WHAT I FOUND WAS A, IT WOULD WRITE IT IN A SHORTER AMOUNT OF TIME. SO BY THE TIME I LEFT, IT WAS UNDER TWO MINUTES. NO. AND IT WAS VIRTUALLY A HUNDRED PERCENT CORRECT. AND THIS BOTH TERRIFIED ME. 'CAUSE I THOUGHT, WELL, WE NEED OP-ED WRITERS ANYMORE. SO THEN I STARTED TO CHALLENGE IT A LITTLE BIT AS WELL WITH NEWS WRITING. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CHAD GBT IS BEING USED FOR IN A LOT OF SMALL NEWSROOMS WHERE THE BUDGETS ARE TIGHT, IS A LOT OF THE WIRE COPY. UM, BECAUSE THAT'S USUALLY PRETTY EASY TO TRANSLATE INTO PRINT. AND THERE HAVE BEEN SOME VERY FUNNY FAUX PAS AND PAPERS, PARTICULARLY AROUND SPORTS. I WILL ADMIT. I'M NOT THE BIGGEST SPORTS PERSON, BUT SPORTS FANS ARE RABID. AND WHEN YOU GET SOMETHING WRONG IN A SPORTS STORY, YOU HEAR FROM THOSE PEOPLE. THERE WAS A PAPER IN, UM, OHIO THAT HAD THIS RECENTLY WHERE THEY CALLED THE RESULTS FOR THE WRONG TEAM. 'CAUSE CHE GBT MIXED UP TWO NUMBERS. UM, AND CHAT GBT IS REALLY, IT'S GUESSING PROBABILITY. WHAT IS THE LIKELIHOOD OF THE NEXT WORD IN THE SEQUENCE BASED ON THE INFORMATION. AND SO BASED ON THE INFORMATION IT HAD, IT THOUGHT THIS TEAM HAD LOST WHEN IN FACT IT HAD WON. AND YOU NEVER WANNA GET THAT WRONG. SO WHILE AT THE SAME TIME IT'S GETTING BETTER AND BETTER, IT ALSO HAS ITS LIMITATIONS. AND WE'RE FINDING THAT EVERY DAY IN THE NEWSROOM, FACTUAL INACCURACIES AND PROBABILITY MISTAKES THAT IT'S MAKING. LISA THOUGHTS THERE. I DO HAVE A YOUNG STAFFER WHO USES IT FOR HEADLINE WRITING, FOR INSTANCE. WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT THIS IS AN ART, IT, IT IS ALSO A SCIENCE. UM, TRYING TO GET THE RIGHT WORDS THAT PEOPLE WOULD SEARCH FOR, FOR INSTANCE. BUT ALSO PUNS. YOU HAVE TO BE WITTY. AND, AND, AND THIS IS SOMETHING I'M PRETTY GOOD AT IF I DO SAY SO MYSELF. AND SO THE IDEA THAT SHE'S USING JED DBT, EVEN OFTEN THE HEADLINE IS BETTER IRKS ME. BUT IF WE CAN SAVE TIME AND WE CAN, YOU KNOW, PUT OUR RESOURCES TOWARDS SOMETHING ELSE, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD BE GREAT. UM, AT THE SAME TIME THOUGH, I, I THINK WITH [00:20:01] THE VIDEO WE'RE SEEING, UM, THAT'S JUST CONJURED UP OF, UH, I'M, I'M DEEP FAKES, DEEP FAKE VIDEOS, ALL KINDS OF INFORMATION. I I HOPE THAT SOMEDAY THERE WILL BE MORE OF A ROLE FOR HUMANS WHO HAVE REPU FROM REPUTABLE NEWS ORGANIZATIONS TO SAY, ACTUALLY, THIS IS REAL, THIS IS FAKE. AND PEOPLE WILL FIND NEW MEANING IN WHAT WE DO BECAUSE THEY SAY, I KNOW THAT PERSON LISA FALKENBERG, AND IF SHE SAYS IT'S A, IT'S A DEEP FAKE, OR IF SHE SAYS THIS INFORMATION IS TRUE, MAYBE SHE'S TELLING THE TRUTH. UM, AND I LIKE WITH EVERYTHING WE'LL GET THERE, BUT QUERY, THERE'LL BE A TIME IN WHICH IT'S GONNA GO TOWARD THE, UH, AND WE'RE KIND OF, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS? WE'RE KIND OF IN IT. I MEAN, I, ONE OF THE GREAT REPORTERS AT SANTA ON THIS TOPIC IS DONIO SULLIVAN. AND HE HAS DONE THIS EXPERIMENT WITH SHOWING PEOPLE TWO VIDEOS AND ASKING THEM WHICH ONE IS REAL, OR SHOWING THEM TWO PHOTOS AND ASKING THEM WHICH ONE IS REAL. AND I WILL SAY 50% OF THE TIME, THEY GET IT WRONG. NO. AND 50% OF THE TIME I GET IT WRONG TOO, BECAUSE THEY'RE JUST SO GOOD. AND I'LL SAY AS FOLLOWS, ACTUALLY, THE END OF THE DAY, LAST MINUTE, I'M ASKED TO DO IN ESSENCE A VERY QUICK SPEECH PRESENTATION, BUT IT WAS GOING TO BE PUBLISHED, SO THAT'S EVEN WORSE. IT'S GONNA STAY IN PERPETUITY IN WRITING. AND SOMEONE SAID TO ME, AND IT WAS FOR SOMEONE VERY IMPORTANT, SOMEONE SAID TO ME, WELL JUST, JUST DO CHAT TOT P AND I THOUGHT TO MYSELF, HOW EMBARRASSING. A, I HADN'T EVEN THOUGHT ABOUT THAT. BUT BI THOUGHT AT THIS JUNCTURE, OH NO, BUT QUERY, I THOUGHT I ENDED UP NOT EVEN TRYING. IT WAS TWO IN THE MORNING, YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS FINALIZING WRITING IT, I THOUGHT, QUERY, WOULD IT HAVE BEEN A BETTER PRODUCT? I DON'T EVEN WANNA KNOW THAT ANSWER, RIGHT? I DON'T WANNA KNOW. I DON'T WANNA HEAR, I DON'T WANNA HEAR IT LADIES. WE'RE JUST GONNA, WE'RE GONNA BELIEVE THAT IT WASN'T. OKAY. MORE LATINO VOICES AFTER THE SHORT BREAK. WE ARE BACK WITH MORE IN A SEGMENT WE CALL SMART TIMES, AN EXPANDED CONVERSATION WITH TODAY'S GUEST, LISA FALKENBERG AND YAFFA FREDERICK PULITZER, PRIZE WINNING JOURNALIST. WHAT IS THE PULITZER ESTABLISHED OVER A HUNDRED YEARS AGO? THE PULITZER PRIZE IS REGARDED AS THE HIGHEST NATIONAL HONOR IN PRINT JOURNALISM. LITERALLY ACHIEVEMENT AND MUSICAL COMPOSITION. LISA, OKAY, WHAT THE HECK? YOU'VE GOT TO EDUCATE US ON YOUR FAVORITE, THE WORK BEHIND IT, BECAUSE IT CHANGED LIVES. SO, YOU KNOW WHICH ONE I'M THINKING ABOUT , BUT YOU GO WITH WHATEVER YOU WANT. WELL, ONE WAS SOMETHING I DID AS A COLUMNIST AND ONE WAS AS PART OF A TEAM IN THE EDITORIAL BOARD. SO I'M ALWAYS REALLY PROUD OF THE WORK THAT MY, UM, MY TEAM DID TO CALL OUT LIES THAT WERE BEING SAID ABOUT, UM, VOTER FRAUD. UM, YOU KNOW, FOLLOWING THE, UH, 2020 ELECTION AND BEFORE, BUT THE PULITZER THAT, UM, WAS AWARDED WHEN I WAS A COLUMNIST WAS WORK. I DID, UM, ON A DEATH ROW CASE, IT WAS A MAN NAMED ALFRED, DWAYNE BROWN, WHO AS IT TURNED OUT HAD BEEN, UH, WRONGFULLY CONVICTED IN A POLICE OFFICER'S MURDER. CHARLES R. CLARK. IT WAS A HORRIBLE, UM, MURDER. AND, UM, THERE WAS A LOT OF INTEREST IN, IN PUTTING SOMEBODY BEHIND BARS. UM, THERE WAS SOME EVIDENCE FOUND YEARS LATER AFTER HE WAS ALREADY ON DEATH ROW IN A POLICE OFFICER'S GARAGE THAT ACTUALLY SUPPORTED, UM, BROWN'S ALIBI. HE HAD SAID HE WAS ON A PHONE, A LANDLINE PHONE CALL BACK WHEN THERE WERE LANDLINES AT THE TIME OF THE MURDER. NOBODY HAD THAT RECORD. TURNS OUT THEY DID HAVE IT, AND IT WAS PUT IN A BOX SOMEWHERE AND FORGOTTEN. SO YEARS LATER, THE DA LEARNS OF THIS SAYS, OKAY, WE'RE, WE WANNA HAVE ANOTHER TRIAL. WE'LL AGREE TO IT, WHICH IS GOOD, BUT THE APPELLATE COURT JUST SAT ON IT AND DID NOTHING. AND SO I WROTE ONE COLUMN SAYING, HEY, JUDGES, GET OFF YOUR BUTTS AND, YOU KNOW, LET'S HAVE ANOTHER TRIAL. BUT SOMETHING BOTHERED ME. IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ONE COLUMN, BUT SOMETHING REALLY BOTHERED ME. I WAS READING THAT THE GIRLFRIEND OF, UH, BROWN AT THE TIME HAD ACTUALLY BACKED UP HIS STORY AND HER INITIAL TESTIMONY TO THE GRAND JURY AND THEN LATER CHANGED HER MIND AND TESTIFIED AGAINST HIM. HOW DID SHE GET FROM THIS POINT TO THIS POINT? SO I WENT TO THE COURTHOUSE AND I STARTED LOOKING THROUGH THE OLD FILES AND I CAME UPON A GRAND JURY TRANSCRIPT. AND, YOU KNOW, AS A LAWYER, I, I HADN'T SEEN MANY OF THESE BECAUSE GRAND JURIES ARE SECRET, RIGHT? AND SO IT WAS PUT IN THE FILE AND I'M GOING THROUGH, I'M GOING THROUGH AND, AND I JUST CAN'T EVEN BELIEVE WHAT I'M READING. UM, THE GRAND JURY WAS INTIMIDATING THE, THE WITNESS AND TRYING TO GET HER TO CHANGE HER STORY. EVENTUALLY SHE DID. DWAYNE WAS CONVICTED AND, UM, AND GOD DEATH, AND I HATE TO SAY THIS 'CAUSE WE'VE GOTTA WRAP UP [00:25:01] TO HEAR FROM HER, BUT THE PUNCHLINE ONLY BECAUSE WE'VE GOT TWO MINUTES AND I'VE GOTTA HEAR FROM YAFFA, YOU THOUGH WHAT YOU WERE ULTIMATELY, WHAT YOU ULTIMATELY DID FOR THE GRAND JURY SYSTEM. YES. WAS ABLE TO CHANGE THE GRAND JURY SYSTEM SO THAT PEOPLE ON IT ARE RANDOM, SOMEWHAT RANDOMLY SELECTED AND NOT CHOSEN AS FRIENDS OF THE JUDGE. I MEAN, INCREDIBLE, INCREDIBLE, INCREDIBLE. OKAY, YOU'RE NEWER TO HOUSTON. I'M GONNA HAVE TO, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO DO THIS AGAIN, BUT PULITZER PRIZE. YOUR, YOUR BABY. YEAH. SO MINE WAS ABROAD. UH, IT WAS, IT WAS A GLOBAL STORY, BUT I HAD THE AFRICA PORTION AND IT WAS KNOWN AS PANAMA PAPERS, WHICH MANY PEOPLE PROBABLY REMEMBER NOW. UM, AT THE TIME I KNEW NEXT TO NOTHING ABOUT THE KIND OF ILLICIT WORLD OF OFFSHORING. I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT A SHELL COMPANY WAS WHEN THE STORY STARTED. UM, BUT THERE HAD BEEN THIS MAJOR DATA LEAK FROM A PANIN AND LAW FIRM, EC FCA, 1.5 TRILLION, UH, PAGES WORTH OF DATA. AND ONE OF THE AMAZING THINGS ABOUT PANAMA PAPERS, UH, IS THAT THE PAPER THAT RECEIVED THE INITIAL LEAK IN GERMANY RECOGNIZED THERE WAS NO WAY THEY COULD GO THROUGH EVERYTHING IN HERE. AND SO THEY ENLISTED THE INTERNATIONAL CONSORTIUM OF INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISTS, UM, OF WHICH I WAS A PART AT THAT TIME. AND SO WE TOOK CONTROL OF THE AFRICA PORTION OF THE PANAMA PAPERS AND WE WORKED WITH 20 NEWSROOMS ACROSS AFRICA TO REALLY GO THROUGH ANY CORPORATE HEAD POLITICIAN, BIG WIG IN ANY PART OF THE CONTINENT. AND I APOLOGIZE, I'VE GOT LIKE PROBABLY 30 SECONDS. YEAH. SO WHAT IS THE PUNCHLINE? I'M SO TAKEN. YES. SO WE WERE ABLE TO SHOW THAT A LOT OF THIS OFFSHORING WAS IN FACT ILLEGAL, NOT NOT WITHIN LEGAL LOOPHOLES. GET ACCOUNTABILITY FROM THOSE PEOPLE, GET THEM PAYING BACK TAXES AND GET, IN THIS CASE, THE AFRICAN UNION TO START TALKING ABOUT SERIOUS TAX REFORM SO THAT ALL THIS MONEY WASN'T DISAPPEARING FROM THE CONTINENT INTO OFFSHORE ACCOUNTS. I COULD SPEAK WITH THE TWO OF YOU. LATINA S HONOREE ONLY BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT LATINA. OKAY. IF NOT, THEY ARE S OKAY. WE'LL BE BACK NEXT TIME ON LATINA VOICES. THANK YOU. WE THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON LATINA VOICES. WE WILL BE BACK NEXT TIME WITH MORE INTERESTING TOPICS, ALTHOUGH I DON'T KNOW THAT WE CAN THAT MATTER TO ALL OF US. UNTIL NEXT TIME, STAY SMART. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.