* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. IT'S NOW 2:38 PM [00:00:03] THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 9TH, 2023. [Houston Archaeological and Historical Commission on February 9, 2023.] TODAY'S MEETING OF THE HOUSTON ARCHEOLOGICAL AND CIRCLE COMMISSION. HAHC IS CALLED TO ORDER. I'M COMMISSION CHAIR DAVID EK TO VERIFY WE HAVE A QUORUM. I WILL CALL THE ROLE I KNOW MEMORY OUR MANY OF OUR MEMBERS WILL BE ATTENDING VIRTUALLY AS WELL. UM, UH, IS IS VICE CHAIR, UM, METH, WEAU JACKSON. PRESENT? I AM PRESENT. COMMISSIONER ASHLEY JONES. PRESENT. COMMISSIONER DUBBO PRESENT. MR. SWEENEY VASAN NOT HEARING HONOR. SHE ISN'T PLANNING TO ATTEND, SO WE WILL WAIT FOR HER ARRIVAL. UM, BUT WE, WE HAVE QUORUM WITHOUT HER, I BELIEVE. COMMISSIONER VEDA. OKAY, I'M GONNA SAY ABSENT FOR, FOR THE MOMENT. COMMISSIONER COSGROVE WILL BE ABSENT FOR A FUNERAL. COMMISSIONER MCNEIL PRESENT, COMMISSIONER CURRY CURRY PRESENT. COMMISSIONER COLLUM PRESENT. COMMISSIONER YAP. PRESENT. COMMISSIONER STAAVA PRESENT. COMMISSIONER COUCH PRESENT. DEPUTY DIRECTOR JENNIFER OSLAN PRESENT. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONERS. WE HAVE A QUORUM. UM, I'M GONNA DO A VERY BRIEF CHAIR'S REPORT, UH, TODAY. UM, UH, COMMISSIONER MEMBER, UM, SWEENEY LAWSON. HER TERM IS ENDING AT THE END OF THIS MONTH, AND, UM, IF SHE MAKES THIS MEETING, THIS WILL BE HER LAST MEETING OF THE COMMISSION. AND SO WE, WE WISH HER WELL. UM, I KNOW THAT SHE, HER WORK HAS CHANGED A LITTLE BIT. SHE'S MORE OUT OF TOWN THESE DAYS AND, AND SO SHE WILL BE SUNSETTING, UM, HER POSITION. AND SO WE WISH, WE WISH HER THE BEST OF LUCK AND, UM, BUT WE KNOW WE'LL CONTINUE TO SEE HER IN OTHER ASPECTS OF OUR LIVES. WITH THAT, I WILL, UH, NEXT IS THE DIRECTOR'S REPORT. THANK YOU. UH, GOOD AFTERNOON, MR. CHAIR AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION. I'M JENNIFER OSLAND, SECRETARY OF THE COMMISSION, AND DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF THE HOUSTON PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT. UM, I'M PLEASED TO WELCOME A NEW STAFF MEMBER TO OUR TEAM TODAY. UH, TAYLOR VALLEY. TAYLOR, WILL YOU JUST STAND UP AND SAY HI? UM, WE'RE SO HAPPY TO HAVE HER. UM, SHE'S, SHE'S NATIVE OF THE AREA. SHE'S COMING TO US FROM PEAR LAND. UM, SO SHE JUST STARTED ON MONDAY. UM, SO WE'RE THROWING HER RIGHT IN TO THE MIX. SO WELCOME, WELCOME TAYLOR. UM, JUST A QUICK UPDATE. UM, MANY OF YOU ALREADY KNOW THIS, BUT IN CASE NOT ON JANUARY 25TH, CITY COUNCIL UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED TWO, UM, AMENDMENTS TO OUR DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS. ONE IS THE RESIDENTIAL BUFFERING ORDINANCE, AND THE OTHER IS A SIDEWALK, UM, ORDINANCE AMENDMENT. UM, COUNCIL APPROVED A FEE OPTION, WHICH THE STAFF, UH, PEDESTRIAN REALM TEAM CAN NOW OFFER AS A MODIFICATION TO SIDEWALK REQUIREMENTS WHERE SIDEWALKS AREN'T APPROPRIATE OR CANNOT BE, UM, INSTALLED. THE OTHER ARE THE RESIDENTIAL BUFFERING REQUIREMENTS, WHICH HELP MITIGATE THE EFFECTS OF HIGH RISE, HIGH-RISE, AND MID-RISE STRUCTURES ON SMALLER SCALE RESIDENTIAL. ALSO, UM, TOO MUCH LIGHT EMANATING FROM TALL PARKING GARAGES OR, UH, COMMERCIAL PARKING LOTS, AND ALSO FROM DUMPSTERS, UM, ON A BUDDING RESIDENTIAL PROP PROPERTIES. SO WE'RE HAPPY TO HAVE THOSE, UH, THE LIVABLE PLACES ACTION COMMITTEE HELPED DEVELOP THOSE, UM, YOU KNOW, THOSE, THE STANDARDS THAT ARE IN THOSE ORDINANCES. AND THAT IS THE SAME COMMITTEE THAT HAS ALSO HELPED DEVELOP, UM, THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT'S ENABLING ORDINANCE, WHICH IS THE PURPOSE OF TODAY'S MEETING. SO WE WANNA THANK THEM FOR ALL OF THEIR WORK. UM, SO IN ADDITION, TODAY'S PUBLIC HEARING ON THE CONSERVATION CONSERVATION DISTRICT ENABLING ORDINANCE. UH, PEOPLE CAN CONTINUE TO PROVIDE INPUT THROUGH LET'S TALK HOUSTON.ORG. UH, THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT'S PUBLIC, UH, ENGAGEMENT WEB PORTAL. UM, YOU CAN CALL US. AND OF COURSE, THERE, UH, WILL BE A HEARING AT BEFORE CITY COUNCIL. THAT HEARING IS SCHEDULED FOR WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 22ND AT 9:00 AM AND THE CITY HALL, UH, COUNCIL CHAMBERS, ALSO THE SUPER NEIGHBORHOOD ALLIANCE HAS THIS TOPIC ON THEIR AGENDA FOR A VIRTUAL MEETING ON MONDAY, FEBRUARY 13TH AT 6:30 PM THAT'S THIS COMING MONDAY. AND CONSERVATION DISTRICTS WILL ALSO BE, UH, PRESENTED AND DISCUSSED AT A VIRTUAL MEETING OF A LIVABLE PLACES [00:05:01] ACTION COMMITTEE ON FEBRUARY 21ST AT 3:00 PM IF YOU'RE NOT CURRENTLY SUBSCRIBED TO OUR MONTHLY PLANNER NEWSLETTER, PLEASE BE SURE TO ALSO SEE THIS MONTH'S EDITION ONLINE WITH DETAILS ABOUT ALL OF THE ORDINANCE UPDATES. YOU CAN VISIT OUR WEBSITE@HOUSTONTX.GOV SLASH PLANNING, UH, FOR MORE COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT INFORMATION AND LINKS TO THE ABOVE MEETINGS. IF YOU HAVE FURTHER QUESTIONS, THE PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT CAN BE REACHED AT 8 3 2 3 9 3 6 6 0 0. AND THAT INCLUDES, CONCLUDES MY REPORT. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. WE ARE HEARING THAT SOME OF THE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC ARE NOT ABLE TO HEAR, UH, YOUR VOICE FOR OFFICIAL AGENDA ITEMS. SO IF WE COULD PAUSE FOR JUST A MOMENT. WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THE MEETING IS BEING PROPERLY TRANSMITTED. UNDERSTOOD. THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR PAUSING. WE UNDERSTAND THAT WE ARE READY TO GO. THANK YOU. OKAY. JUST CHECKING THAT. OKAY. OKAY, MOVING ON. UM, TO THE MAYOR'S LIAISON REPORT, I KNOW THAT MARTHA CANO IS HERE. I'M, AND I'M NOT SURE THERE IS A REPORT, BUT JUST WANNA OFFER YOU THE OPPORTUNITY, NOT, NOT AN ACTUAL REPORT, JUST CONFIRMING THAT YES, WE WILL HAVE THE HEARING BEFORE COUNSEL ON THE 22ND. UM, AND REGARDING THE, UH, CHAPTER 42 CHANGES, I DON'T THINK I HEARD YOU MENTION IT, AND WE DON'T DO IT OFTEN. SO I WANTED TO POINT OUT THAT WE DID ACTUALLY LOWER FEES WITH THAT ORDINANCE. SO THOSE INITIAL, UM, PERMITTING FEES FOR, UM, FOR SEVERAL CLASSES OF FEES WERE DRAMATICALLY DROPPED. SO JUST POINTING OUT THAT WE DON'T ALWAYS JUST RAISE THEM, I SUPPOSE. AND THAT, THAT'S ALL I HAVE. THANK YOU, CHAIR. THANK YOU. OKAY. WE WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON TO ITEM A ON THE AGENDA, WHICH IS ONE, A PUBLIC HEARING ON PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO CHAPTER 33, PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT, ADDING A NEW ARTICLE 11 CONSERVATION DISTRICTS TO ALLOW FOR THE CREATION AND, AND ADMINISTRATION OF SUCH DISTRICTS SETTING FORTH STANDARDS AND OTHER RELATED MATTERS. IN ADDITION, ITEM TWO OF A DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON THE PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO CHAPTER 33, PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT, ADDING A NEW ARTICLE 11 CONSERVATION DISTRICT TO ALLOW FOR THE CREATION AND ADMINISTRATION OF SUCH DISTRICTS SETTING FORTH STANDARDS AND RELATED MATTERS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, CHAIR. SORRY WE HAD A LITTLE TECHNICAL DIFFICULTY, UH, BUT WE'VE GOT IT, I THINK READY TO GO IF I, IF JASON, YOU CAN HEAR MY VOICE. COULD YOU ADVANCE ONE SLIDE FORWARD FOR ME, PLEASE? PERFECT. OKAY. LET'S GET FORWARD TO THE, UH, SLIDE THAT READS PROPOSED CONSERVATION DISTRICT ORDINANCE. THERE WE GO. AND NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. GREAT. HEY, COMMISSIONERS, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS AFTERNOON. AND, AND, AND I WANT TO, I WANNA SAY EVERY JASON, YOU JUST GOTTA LISTEN STRAIGHT TO ME. OKAY. NO, YOU GOTTA HEAR ME UP IN JUST ADVANCE SLIDES AS NEEDED. YOU'RE ON SPEAKER. THANK YOU. UM, I'M HERE WITH THE PUBLIC. I WANNA THANK THE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC FOR JOINING TODAY. EVERYBODY WHO'S ONLINE, WHO'S JOINING TODAY, AND IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME GETTING HERE. I WANT TO SAY, YOU KNOW, THAT THIS PRO, WHERE DID CONSERVATION DISTRICT REALLY COME FROM? WHEN I ARRIVED IN HOUSTON IN OCTOBER OF 2019, RETURNING AS THE PRESERVATION OFFICER, HAVING WORKED [00:10:01] 10 YEARS IN PRESERVATION, IT WAS CLEAR TO ME THAT CERTAIN NEIGHBORHOODS IN THE CITY HAD BEEN NEGLECTED AND NEEDED SOME KIND OF TOOL, OTHERWISE, THESE NEIGHBORHOODS WOULD JUST KIND OF GET WIPED OFF THE MAP. AND SO I SUGGESTED THAT WE HAVE A CONSERVATION DISTRICT ORDINANCE AT THAT TIME, AND IT'S TAKEN A LONG TIME TO GET HERE TO WORK THE LIVABLE PLACES CONFERENCE. AND, UH, OH, WAIT, YOU KNOW, I'VE LEFT IMPORTANT. WE HAVE A CITY COUNCIL MEMBER HERE TODAY. IT'S SALLY ALCORN. I WANNA RECOGNIZE SALLY CITY COUNCIL MEMBER SALLY ALCORN, FOR BEING HERE TODAY. I DIDN'T, I MAY HAVE BEEN OUTTA THE ROOM IF WE RECOGNIZED HER. I'M SORRY. SO THAT'S WHERE THIS CAME FROM, AND IT'S HERE BEFORE YOU TODAY. WHAT CAN A CONSERVATION DISTRICT DO? IT CAN PROTECT THE CHARACTER, THE LOOK AND FEEL OF IN AN AREA OR A NEIGHBORHOOD. IT CAN HELP SUPPORT COMPATIBLE COMPATIBLE DEVELOPMENT AND NEW CONSTRUCTION. AND IT CAN BE, IT MAY BE EASIER TO ESTABLISH THAN OTHER PROTECTIONS, SUCH AS DEED RESTRICTIONS OR EVEN HISTORIC DISTRICTS. THE, AND LET ME ELABORATE THAT A LITTLE BIT. WHY WOULD IT BE A LITTLE EASIER? CONSERVATION DISTRICTS DON'T COME WITH A PRESET SET OF RULES LIKE A HISTORIC DISTRICT DOES. WHEN WE CREATE A HISTORIC DISTRICT OR WHEN WE MAKE A LANDMARK, THOSE, UH, THOSE DISTRICTS OR LANDMARKS ARE SUBJECT TO THE EXISTING CITY CODE. AND, AND AS IT RELATES TO APPROVAL OF WORK WITH A CONSERVATION DISTRICT'S ADOPTION, IF THIS ORDINANCE WERE TO PASS A NEIGHBORHOOD DETERMINES WHAT, WHAT ISSUES THEY'RE HAVING AND WHAT, HOW THEY'D LIKE TO DEVELOP GOING FORWARD. AND THEY MAY BRING FORTH ONE OR TWO OR THREE OR, OR MORE, UH, UH, REGULATIONS THEY'D LIKE TO SEE, UH, IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. SO THAT'S WHY IT'S EASIER, BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S SOMETHING THAT MORE PEOPLE CAN BUY INTO. IT'S FLEXIBLE. HISTORIC DISTRICTS ARE INFLEXIBLE ONCE THEY'RE CREATED. THEY, WE, AS Y'ALL KNOW, WE COME TO THIS COMMISSION MONTHLY WITH ITEMS FOR ALTERATIONS. IT CAN PROMOTE LIVABILITY AND QUALITY OF LIFE. AND I WANT TO ADD THERE THAT WHEN WE WERE IN THE LIVABLE PLACES COMMITTEE WORK, WE WORKED WITH CURTIS DAVIS, LOCAL ARCHITECT, AND HE POINTED OUT THAT A CONSERVATION DISTRICT COULD BE USED AS A POLICY TOOL TO AFFECT, TO AFFECT CHANGE, AND TO PROMOTE THE LIVABILITY, PROMOTE THE AFFORDABILITY EVEN OF, OF PEOPLE LIVING IN CONSERVATION DISTRICTS. AND OF COURSE, IT CAN INCLUDE STRUCTURES OF ANY AGE, WHEREAS A HISTORIC DISTRICT REQUIRES THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE STRUCTURES BE AT LEAST 50 YEARS OF AGE OR OLDER. SO, NEXT SLIDE. WE HAVE CRITERIA THAT WE ARE SUGGESTING, OR THAT THE CURRENT ORDINANCE HAS. THE CURRENT DRAFT IS THAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR CO POINT NUMBER ONE, COMMON STREET SCAPES, STREET PATTERNS. IF WE ADVANCE THE SLIDE, PLEASE. UM, SIGNIFICANT COMMUNITY SITES OR LAND USE PATTERNS, OR CREATING AN AREA IDENTITY, UH, THAT CREATE AN AREA IDENTITY. UH, DO, CAN WE ADVANCE THIS SLIDE? HAVE WE LOST? UH, I'M NOT HEARING ANYBODY. JA. JASON, IF YOU'RE THERE, CAN YOU HEAR ME? WE GOT A, A SLIDE LOCK HERE. ANYONE GOT A, I'M SORRY. TECHNICAL AIR. LET ME HOLD TILL WE GET A SLIDE ADVANCE HERE. CAN YOU SEE IF THIS DEVICE IS ? OKAY. THERE WE GO. THANK YOU. COMMON PATTERNS OF IMPROVEMENTS, LANDSCAPING, OR BUILDING SETBACKS IS WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR. COMMON SCALE OR BULK AMONG BUILDINGS, STRUCTURES, ROOF, HEIGHTS, LOCATION OF GARAGES AND OTHER THINGS. BUT MOST, THIS IS MAYBE THE MOST SIGNIFICANT CRITERIA, WHETHER A PROPOSED DISTRICT IS AN AREA THAT WAS PLANNED OR DEVELOPED BY HISTORICALLY UNDERREPRESENTED OR DISENFRANCHISED COMMUNITIES. AND THEN THE VALUE OF AN AREA AS AN ASPECT OF COMMUNITY SENTIMENT OR PUBLIC PRIDE. AND NOW THE NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. CRITERIA CONSIDERED BY THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT, THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE IS RESIDENT INPUT. THERE'S BEEN SOME CONCERN RAISED IN THE PUBLIC THAT THE, THE, THE FIRST DRAFT OF THE ORDINANCE THAT WAS BROUGHT TO THIS COMMISSION HAD LANGUAGE THAT INDICATED THAT THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT WOULD INITIATE THE APPLICATION. REALLY, HOW THAT LANGUAGE GOT THERE AT THE END, I'M NOT QUITE SURE. WE, WE HAD EARLIER DRAFTS THAT WERE REAL CLEAR. WE HAVE ALREADY TAKEN THOSE COMMENTS AND, AND WE ARE ALREADY ENTERING REVISIONS OF ALL THE COMMENTS WE RECEIVED. AND THE LANGUAGE IS MUCH CLEARER. NOW. THIS IS A, A, A PRO A PROGRAM MEANT TO BE INITIATED AND BACKED BY AND DESIRED BY RESIDENTS OF NEIGHBORHOODS AND OWNERS OF, OF HOUSES AND NEIGHBORHOODS. AND SO THE CITY ISN'T PLANNING TO, UH, NOT ONLY NOT PLANNING TO THE ORDINANCE, WILL NOT ALLOW THE CITY TO MOVE A CONSERVATION DISTRICT FORWARD WITHOUT THE SUPPORT AND INPUT OF THE NEIGHBORHOODS. AND THAT IS CLEAR NOW IN THE CURRENT DRAFT, WHICH WE WILL, AT THE END OF HEARING ALL THE COMMENTS TODAY. WE'LL, DR. WE'LL TIGHTEN [00:15:01] UP THAT DRAFT AND PUT IT ONLINE BY MONDAY, UH, OF, OF NEXT WEEK. UH, THE OTHER CRITERIA IS AN ANALYSIS OF DEVELOPMENT APPLICATIONS IN THE AREA, HISTORICAL STUDIES OF NEIGHBORHOODS AND CULTURAL INSTITUTIONS. ANALYSIS OF THE AREA CONFIRMS CONSISTENT AND IDENTIFIABLE PHYSICAL ATTRIBUTES OF CULTURAL HISTORY, CULTURE, HISTORY, SCALE AND DEVELOPMENT THAT CAN BE PRESERVED BY PROTECTING OR ENHANCING ONE OR MORE OF THOSE ATTRIBUTES. AN AREA SHOULD BE CONTIGUOUS WITH A BAT, WITH BOUNDARY LINES THAT ARE LOGICAL AND CLEAR, AND OTHER DATA RELEVANT TO CONSIDERATION SUCH, UH, AS DEEMED APPROPRIATE BY THE PRESERVATION OFFICER. ANALYSIS MAY INCLUDE DETERMINATION OF THE NUMBER OF PROPERTIES OR THE SIZE OF THE PROPOSED DISTRICT. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. THANK YOU. NEXT SLIDE IS MENU OF STANDARDS. THE, UM, MENU OF STANDARDS IS NOT MEANT TO BE TOTALLY INCLUSIVE, BUT, UH, SO IT STATES HERE, WHEN CREATING CO A CONSERVATION DISTRICT, THE COMMUNITY MAY CHOOSE ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING. AND WE'VE SEEN THESE ARE THINGS THAT ARE AUTOMATIC IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT. GOING BACK TO IF YOU WERE IN A YOU, THESE ALL ARE GONNA COME UP IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE TO COME UP IN A CONSERVATION DISTRICT. BUILDING HEIGHT OR NUMBER OF STORIES, BUILDING SIZE AND MASSING PRINCIPLE ELEVATION FEATURES, ROOF LINES AND PITCH LOT SIZE, LOT COVERAGE, FRONT AND SIDE SETBACK, OFF STREET PARKING, LOADING REQUIREMENTS, ROOF LINE AND PITCH GARAGE ENTRANCE, LOCATION PAVING, HARDSCAPING COVERING, BUILDING ORIENTATION, GENERAL SITE PLANNING, LOCATION OF PRIMARY AND ANCILLARY STRUCTURES, URBAN ARCHITECTURAL CHARACTER BUILDING MATERIALS, FENCES AND WALLS, AND BUILDING RELOCATION AND DEMOLITION TO ANYONE WHO THINKS THAT'S A NEW, WONDERFUL THING. ALL THAT'S ALREADY COVERED IN THE 23 HISTORIC DISTRICTS THAT THE CITY HAS. AND THE OVER 700 HISTORIC LANDMARKS THE CITY HAS BY WAY OF THE CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL FOR HISTORIC, FOR WORK IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS. KEY POINTS FOR ESTABLISHING A DISTRICT. IT'S BASED ON INPUT FROM, SORRY, THE NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. BASED ON INPUT FROM COMMUNITIES, THE PLAN DEPARTMENT, SPECIFICALLY THE OFFICE OF PRESERVATION, WILL IDENTIFY POTENTIAL CONSERVATION DISTRICT AREAS. AND THE OFFICE OF PRESERVATION WILL WORK CLOSELY WITH PROPERTY OWNERS TO DETERMINE POTENTIAL COMMUNITY SUPPORT FOR AND IDENTIFY THE CHARACTER TRAITS THE COMMUNITY WANTS TO PRESERVE. WITH THE PROPOSED STANDARDS DETERMINED, THE HOUSTON OFFICE OF PRESERVATION WILL HOST AT LEAST ONE ADDITIONAL MEETING TO PRESENT THAT TO THE PUBLIC. IT 51% OF PROPERTY OWNERS ARE REQUIRED FOR APPROVAL. BOUNDARIES MAY BE MODIFIED IF TO MEET THE 51% THRESHOLD. THERE'S LANGUAGE IN THE ORDINANCE. THERE'S BEEN SOME CONCERN, UH, RIGHTLY SO BY PEOPLE. WELL, IF THE BOUNDARY'S MODIFIED DOES A, WILL THE PEOPLE BE NOTIFIED? THE ORDINANCE REQUIRES THAT THE PEOPLE BE PEOPLE AND PROPERTY OWNERS ARE NOTIFIED. UH, AND THEN CITY COUNCIL WILL HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING WHEN CONSIDERING A DISTRICT. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. CONSERVATION DISTRICTS DO NOT AFFECT ORDINARY MAINTENANCE, REPAIR AND REPLACEMENT OF EXTERIOR FEATURES THAT AREN'T STRUCTURAL. SO ALL ORDINARY MAINTENANCE AND REPAIR, JUST LIKE WITH HISTORIC DISTRICTS, TOTALLY EXEMPT FROM THIS PROPOSAL. LANDSCAPING WITH PLANTS AND TREES, TOTALLY EXEMPT. PARTIAL RECONSTRUCTION OF A STRUCTURE THAT'S BEEN DAMAGED BY FIRE, OR GOD FORBID, IS WHAT'S HAPPENED IN PASADENA AND DEER PARK. THE, THE, THE TORNADOES, ALL OF THOSE THINGS. YOU DON'T NEED A, A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS AND YOU WON'T NEED ANYTHING FROM THE CITY HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICE TO, TO BUILD. IN THAT CASE, YOU MAY NEED A BUILDING PERMIT, AS IS ALWAYS THE CASE. UM, BUT THOSE ARE EXEMPT. AND THEN OF COURSE, ANYTHING ON THE INTERIOR OF THE HOME IS NOT COVERED BY THIS ORDINANCE, BUT IT'S PROPOSED ORDINANCE. SO AS IT STANDS, THE NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. WHAT WE'RE STAFF IS WITH THE EXTENSIVE INPUT THROUGH THE LIVABLE PLACES PROGRAM WITH THE, WITH OUR WORK AND ACROSS THE CITY TODAY WITH ALL THE NEIGHBORHOODS TODAY, WE HEAR SO OFTEN FROM PEOPLE ACROSS THE CITY. AND AS YOU'VE BEEN PROVIDED, A PAPER COPY OF THE AROUND 40 COMMENTS THAT HAVE COME INTO OUR OFFICE. AND IF YOU LOOK AT THOSE COMMENTS, AND THOSE ARE SHARED WITH THE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC AND MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC, WE HAVE A COPY OF THOSE HERE ON THE TABLE. AND WE WILL, I BELIEVE WE COULD SHARE THAT ONLINE. WE JUST CHECK WITH LEGAL IF THAT DOCUMENT COULD ALSO BE ADDED ONLINE FOR ACCESSIBILITY THERE TOO. AND YOU'LL SEE IN THAT, THAT THE SUPPORT FOR THIS KIND OF TOOL IS ACROSS OUR ENTIRE BIG CITY OF HOUSTON. UM, AND PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO SEE A TOOL LIKE THIS. THIS IS A HISTORIC PRESERVATION TOOL. IT IS. IT, DALLAS HAS ABOUT 20 AT LAST COUNT, I THINK, AND THEY'RE TRYING TO EXPAND A COUPLE, AND THEY'VE HAD 'EM FOR A LONG TIME. OTHER CITIES HAVE THEM ACROSS [00:20:01] THE COUNTRY. IT, IT'S JUST A FLEXIBLE TOOL. IT'S GOOD FOR TODAY. IT'S SU IT'S ABOUT SUSTAINABILITY. IT ISN'T ABOUT BLOCKING AFFORDABLE HOUSING. IT ISN'T ABOUT, UM, YOU KNOW, LIMITING DENSITY OR ALL THOSE THINGS UNTIL YOU SEE AN ORDINANCE. IF THIS SORT WERE TO PASS UNTIL THE CITY THEN CONSIDERS A DISTRICT, THEY'LL BE LOOKING AT WHAT THAT DISTRICT'S ACT ASKING FOR. AND I'LL TAKE ANY QUESTIONS. WE'RE RECOMMENDING THAT THIS PROPOSED CONSERVATION DISTRICT ORDINANCE AS PRESENTED TODAY, BE, UH, SENT TO CITY COUNCIL FOR THEIR CONSIDERATION AND ADOPTION BY THIS BODY. THANK YOU, ROMAN. UM, AT THIS TIME, I'M GONNA ASK COMMISSION MEMBERS IF THERE ARE ANY COMMISSIONERS THAT WOULD LIKE TO ASK ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS OF ROMAN . YEAH. UH, I HAVE ACTUALLY, I HAVE NUMEROUS, BUT I'LL START WITH JUST THE FIRST ONE. UH, LIKE THE HISTORIC DISTRICTS, WE HAVE A GENERAL GUIDELINE AND THEN, UH, FOR EXAMPLE, AND THEN HEIGHTS HAS ITS OWN DISTINCT, UH, GUIDELINES THAT IS MORE QUANTITATIVE. SO IN A, IN A CONSERVATION DISTRICT. SO DO WE HAVE ONE UMBRELLA THAT HAS, THAT COVERS ALL THE CONSERVANCY DISTRICTS, AND THEN ONE IS ALSO EXPECTED TO THEN BECOME MORE QUANTITATIVE WITH EACH NEIGHBORHOOD SPECIFIC GUIDELINES? NO, COMMISSIONER, THE, THE, THESE DISTRICTS HAVE, THERE'S NOTHING PRESET. IT'S COMPLETELY BASED ON THE COMMUNITY THAT DESIRES IT. AND SO THERE'S NOTHING SET AND NO, THE GUIDELINES. SO AS WE, YOU WERE MENTIONING, WE HAVE 23 HISTORIC DISTRICTS. I BELIEVE THERE ARE ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE THAT HAVE A SET OF DESIGN GUIDELINES ALREADY. UH, BY ORDINANCE, WE NEED TO PASS DESIGN GUIDELINES FOR ALL OF THOSE DISTRICTS JUST TO HELP YES. UNDERSTAND 'EM. BUT, UM, NOW THAT'S NOT, NOT TO SAY A PR A NEIGHBORHOOD COULD PUT FORTH IN THEIR CONSERVATION DISTRICT ORDINANCE THAT THEY DESIRE THAT THE, THAT, THAT THE CON THAT DESIGN GUIDELINES BE. IT COULD BE THAT SPECIFIC, IF THE PEOPLE WANT IT TO BE THAT SPECIFIC. BUT IN YOUR PRESENTATION, WELL, I THINK ON THE FOURTH SLIDE OR FIFTH SLIDE, YOU HAVE A COMPENDIUM OF CRITERIA POTENTIAL TO CHOOSE FROM. YES. LIKE A MENU. BUT IF, IF, THEN ALSO ON THE SAME BREATH, YOU SAID, EACH DISTRICT WOULD BE ASKED TO PRESENT WHAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO PRESERVE OR STANDARDS. RIGHT. SO IT, IT THEN IT BECOMES QUITE NATURAL TO SAY DISTRICT A WOULD LIKE TO MAYBE PRESENT OR PRESERVE CERTAIN THINGS OF A DIFFERENT NUMBER, UH, DIFFERENT, UH, QUANT QUANTITATIVE MEASURE THAN ANOTHER DISTRICT. SO BY IN ALL, IN ALL, EACH DISTRICT WILL HAVE ITS OWN SAY. RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO ASCERTAIN. YES. OKAY. SORRY, I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT. YES, COMMISSIONER. THAT'S CORRECT. YES. BUT THE FACT THAT I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO, UH, PRESS UPON THIS BODY THAT WE ONLY HAVE FOUR OUT OF 23 DONE SO FAR. AND WE HAVE MANY DISTRICTS THAT HAVE BEEN GOING ON FOR YEARS WAITING FOR THAT. SO HOW AM I, UH, HOW CAN WE BE MORE, UH, I WOULD SAY, UH, KEEP TO THE SCHEDULE. I DON'T WANT TO HAVE 20 CONSERVANCY DISTRICTS AND NONE OF THEM HAVE THE MEASURES THAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE TALKING ABOUT. SURE. BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE EITHER ENOUGH STAFF OR WE DON'T HAVE, IT'S NOT ON THE FOCUS, BECAUSE EVEN IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICTS, WE ARE FALLING WAY BEHIND. SURE. UM, WELL, ACTUALLY, THE PART OF OUR CITY ORDINANCE THAT, THAT SUGGESTED THAT THE CON THAT HISTORIC DISTRICTS HAVE DESIGN GUIDELINES IS RATHER NEW. THAT THERE WAS AN AMENDMENT, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S 2011 OR 12, WHERE DESIGN GUIDELINES WERE, UH, IT ACTUALLY SAYS A NEW HISTORIC DISTRICT SHALL HAVE DESIGN GUIDELINES, SOME LANGUAGE TO THAT EXTENT. UM, THE REASON THOSE EARLIER DISTRICTS DON'T HAVE 'EM, THEY WEREN'T REQUIRED AT THE TIME THEY WERE ADOPTED TO HAVE THEM. UM, THAT'S ONE. BUT COMING FORWARD, IT MAKES SENSE, RIGHT? WE AS STAFF, IN FACT, THE REASON, UH, LET'S STEP BACK TO THE REASON THAT THE LANGUAGE TODAY IN THE ORDINANCE CONCERNED PEOPLE WHERE IT SAID THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT, ONLY THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT SHALL INITIATE THAT KIND OF DUG DOWN WHERE DID THAT LANGUAGE EXACTLY. IT CAME FROM THE IDEA THAT THERE WAS SOME CONCERN THAT SO MANY, THAT THIS IS SUCH A POPULAR TOOL THAT THERE'D BE TOO MANY APPLICATIONS. AND SO THAT'S HOW THE LANGUAGE SORT OF SLIPPED THERE. WE PUT THAT, BUT THE FACT IS IT'S STILL A HUNDRED PERCENT COMMUNITY DRIVEN. BUT A VERY IMPORTANT POINT IS WE DON'T ANTICIPATE THAT ONLY HISTORIC OFFICE STAFF WILL BE APPROVING THE WORK. IT COULD BE HAPPENING DOWN THE HALL AND PLANNING WHERE THEY APPROVE THE PLATS AND ALL, AND PERMIT ALL THAT THAT HAPPENS THERE. DEPENDING ON THAT REGULATION, [00:25:01] IT MAY NOT NEED IT. IT'S NOT AS SUBJECTIVE AS THE HISTORIC DISTRICT CRITERIA THAT WE HAVE TO INTERPRET AND STAFF HAS TO LOOK AT SO CAREFULLY AND WORK SO CAREFULLY UPON, UH, IT, VERY FEW. A MATTER OF FACT, THE CURRENT THAT WAY I SEE IT FULL PLAYING OUT, IS THAT PROBABLY ONLY DEMOLITIONS. IF A NEIGHBORHOOD WISHES TO PRESERVE CERTAIN BUILDINGS AND THEY HAVE THE SUPPORT TO PASS A DISTRICT, AND THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT CERTAIN HISTORICAL PROPERTIES, THEN I SUGGEST THAT PERHAPS THE DECISION OF WHETHER THOSE MAY BE DEMOLISHED WOULD COME TO THIS BOARD, THIS COMMISSION OUTSIDE OF THAT, ALL THE OTHER WORK WOULD BE APPROVED BY CITY STAFF BASED ON THE CRITERIA THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD CHOOSES. SO THAT EASES UP THE, THE BURDEN. PLUS WE, WE HAVE SUPPORT FROM HIGHER UP THAT WE CAN ADD ANOTHER HALF POSITION, I BELIEVE, TO OUR STAFF, AND WE ARE SET UP TO ADD THREE OR FOUR MORE PEOPLE. SO WE'RE, WE'VE BEEN DOING THESE FINE FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS, GETTING THROUGH 'EM REALLY EFFICIENTLY. IN FACT, THIS COMMISSION ACTUALLY SEES ON AVERAGE MAYBE ABOUT 15 ITEMS A MONTH. YOU KNOW, YOUR PLANNING COMMISSION IS SEEING A COUPLE HUNDRED ITEMS A MONTH, AND WE GET THESE TO YOU FINE AT THE SAME TIME OF SERVING. AND I THINK I'M REALLY PROUD OF THIS OFFICE OF SERVING, UH, THE, THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE PROPERTY IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS VERY WELL. AND I MEAN, THAT, THAT'S, AGAIN, WE HEAR THAT ALL DAY LONG. WE'RE SO GLAD YOU'RE THERE. THANK YOU FOR HELPING US. THAT WOULD'VE COST US A LOT MORE. WE, YOU KNOW, SO WE, WE'VE BEEN DOING A VERY ROBUST JOB OF SERVING AND, AND, AND, AND, AND STILL BEING ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH THE APPROVALS THAT THIS CAN, THAT HAVE TO COME TO THIS BOARD TO GIVE YOU A LITTLE ANSWER. THANK YOU. OKAY. ANY OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE QUESTIONS FOR ROMAN? YES. UH, THIS IS COMMISSIONER SEPULVEDA. I'M JUST RIGHT. UH, JUST CALLING IN TO ANNOUNCE THAT I'M PRESENT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THE, THE UP HEARING HASN'T STARTED YET, BUT YOU, BUT YOU CAN ASK QUESTIONS FOR ROMAN. OKAY. UH, SO QUICK, UH, TWO QUESTIONS. UH, SO HOW DOES THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT OVERLAP WITH THE EXISTING HISTORIC DISTRICTS, OR CAN THEY INCLUDE IT? AND I'M ASSUMING IN THAT CASE, THE MOST STRINGENT, AS ALWAYS, THE MOST STRINGENT HISTORIC PRESERVATION GUIDELINES APPLY THE CURRENT, IS THAT CORRECT? THE, THE DRAFT OF THE ORDINANCE SAYS THAT WE WILL NOT ALLOW A HISTORIC DISTRICT TO BE CONVERTED INTO A CONSERVATION DISTRICT. LIKE A, YOU, YOU CHANGE, LET'S TAKE, UM, AVONDALE TO AVONDALE EAST. WE'RE NOT GONNA, THEY CAN'T COME FORWARD AND ASK FOR A CONSERVATION WHERE THERE'S ALREADY A HISTORIC DISTRICT UNDER THE CURRENT DRAFT OF THE ORDINANCE. HOWEVER WE CAN, THEY CAN BE WRAPPED INTO A CONSERVATION DISTRICT. SO, AND YOU COULD SEE IT HAPPENING THERE WITH AVONDALE, EAST AND WEST AND COURTLAND PLACE NOT FAR AWAY. AND, UM, WHAT ELSE IS OVER THERE? FIRST MONTROSE COMMON. WE HAVE DR. LONGMEYER HERE FROM FIRST MONTROSE COMMON, THE PRESIDENT. AND IT, IT'S POSSIBLE THAT THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS MAY ONE TO GET TOGETHER AND HAVE A CONSERVATION DISTRICT OVERLAYING THERE TO, TO, TO, TO HELP TO CONSIDER WHAT GETS BUILT IN THE IN-BETWEEN SPACES. BUT THE ORDINANCE IS DRAFTED, CAN'T CONVERT IT, BUT YOU CAN INCLUDE IT. SO YOU MIGHT GO AROUND A HISTORIC DISTRICT, AND THEN IN THAT CASE, THE MOST, AS YOU SAID, THE MOST, IN THAT CASE, THE HISTORIC DISTRICT REGULATIONS ARE GONNA BE MORE CONSERVATIVE ON THE, ON THE PROPERTIES. SO, UH, ANOTHER FOLLOW UP QUESTION IS, UH, THE, THE GUIDELINE THAT, UH, EXISTING HISTORIC DISTRICT CANNOT GO TO A CONSERVATION DISTRICT, UH, GIVEN WHAT WE'VE BEEN SEEING IN THE COMMISSION, ALL AL ALL HISTORIC DISTRICTS DON'T HAVE THE SAME ECONOMIC EQUALITY. WOULD THERE BE AN OPTION IF PROVED THAT MAJORITY OF THE COMMUNITY IS BELOW A CERTAIN INCOME, THEY WOULD BE GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY TO GO CONSIDER A SLIGHTLY REWORKED CONSERVATION OR A DISTRICT. IT'S JUST THAT A HISTORIC DISTRICTS, UH, GUIDELINES ON REPAIR VERSUS REPLACE MATERIAL CONSERVATION AND ALL SOMETIMES ARE ONEROUS TO HOMEOWNERS. YEAH. YEAH. SO IS THAT SOMETHING THAT, OR BASED ON AN ECONOMIC CRITERIA, COMMISSIONER, I DIDN'T QUITE FOLLOW THE QUESTION IN THERE. I GOT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. CAN YOU, CAN YOU, COULD SOMEONE PLEASE GIVE ME THAT? WELL, I THINK WHAT IF, IF I UNDERSTOOD CORRECTLY IN A CONSERVATION DISTRICT, THE, THE, UH, UH, THE CONCEPTS THAT WOULD BE IMPORTANT TO, THAT, THAT SPECIFIC NEIGHBORHOOD WOULD BE DETERMINED BY THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND THE LIST COULD BE QUITE A, A VERY SMALL LIST OF THINGS, NOT, NOT A FULL LIST THAT WE LOOK AT ON THIS COMMISSION. SO IT WOULD BE DRIVEN BY THE FOLKS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND, UM, IF, IF, IF THERE'S A LOWER SOCIOECONOMIC NEIGHBORHOOD, AND THERE'S CERTAIN ASPECTS OF, OF THESE OPTIONS THAT THEY THOUGHT WERE ONEROUS, THEY, THEY, THEY COULD DETERMINE THEMSELVES. THEY, THEY, THEY, THEY DON'T WANT TO HAVE THOSE ITEMS TO BE PART OF THEIR REVIEW. SO IT WOULD BE UP TO THEM, BUT THEY WOULD BE LIMITING THEMSELVES SO THAT THEY WOULDN'T [00:30:01] HAVE A FULL REVIEW IF THEY DIDN'T WANT ONE, BECAUSE IT, IT WOULD COME FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THE, THE, THESE, THESE, UM, DIFFERENT, THESE STANDARDS THAT WE SEE RIGHT NOW ON THE SCREEN. UH, A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT, ACTUALLY. SURE. GO AHEAD. SORRY, WHAT? I'M SORRY. WHAT I'M MEANING IS EXISTING HISTORIC DISTRICTS, IF A GROUP IS ABLE TO SHOW THAT THEY ARE BELOW CERTAIN ECONOMIC LINES MM-HMM . THAT THEY BE GIVEN AN OPTION TO CHOOSE, BECOME A CONSERVATION DISTRICT. I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BECAUSE SURE. IT DOES BECOME THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION GUIDELINES IN CERTAIN ASPECTS ARE ONEROUS FOR I THINK THAT'S A VERY GOOD IDEA. AND IF THAT'S BEING SUGGESTED AS SOMETHING THAT WE COULD LOOK AT, THEN WE HAVE, WE WILL, WHERE STAFF CAN, CAN, CAN CONSIDER THAT. I THINK THAT'S A VERY GOOD POINT. UM, WE DO HAVE ONE OR TWO DISTRICTS NOW THAT ARE HISTORIC DISTRICTS WHERE I COULD SEE THAT BEING USEFUL AND SURE. I THINK THAT'S, UH, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, LEGAL WOULD SAY WE CAN TAKE THAT COMMON INTO CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLY REVISE THE ORDINANCE FOR THAT REASON. COULD, COULD WE, RATHER THAN DOWNGRADING THEM TO CONSERVATION DISTRICT, REVISIT SOME OF THE GUIDELINES AND SOME OF THESE DISTRICTS THAT, THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT? THAT WOULD BE ANOTHER WAY TO ADDRESS THAT A LITTLE BIT. THE ONLY CHALLENGE THERE IS THAT THE CURRENT CITY ORDINANCE SAYS, YOU KNOW, THE MOST RESTRICTIVE APPLIES. SO WE THOUGHT OF THAT. WE WANTED TO COME AND, AND, UH, LOOK AT DOING THAT, AND THAT COULD WORK, BUT WE WOULD HAVE TO PROBABLY CHANGE SOME WORDING IN ANOTHER SECTION OF THE ORDINANCE, IS ALL I'M SAYING IN THAT REGARD, I WOULD BE, THIS IS, I WOULD RATHER DO THAT THAN, THAN TAKE SOMETHING AND MAKE IT INTO SOMETHING DIFFERENT. OKAY. COMMISSIONER WEAU OR JACKSON CONCURS, I THINK THAT I DON'T HAVE MUCH APPETITE FOR ALLOWING THE DOWNGRADING AND, YOU KNOW, EVEN FOR THAT, UM, REASONING. BUT I THINK WHAT COMMISSIONER COUCH HAS SUGGESTED WOULD BE A GOOD WORKAROUND. THAT'S THE SAME THING. IT ACCOMPLISH THE SAME THING. IF WE COULD DO THAT, SO WE MIGHT MAYBE BRING THROUGH A LITTLE AMENDMENT THAT GOES WITH THESE CONSERVATION DISTRICTS, IF THEY WERE TO PASS CITY COUNCIL AND, AND MAKE THAT AMENDMENT SO WE CAN HAVE A LITTLE MORE FLEXIBILITY WITH THE DESIGN GUIDELINES AND SPECIFIC, ALL THAT NEEDS TO BE REMOVED IS THAT THE MOST RESTRICTIVE APPLIES. IF THE GUIDELINES CAN GIVE YOU SOME MORE LEEWAY, THAT GETS YOU THERE. UM, MR. CHAIR, I HAVE A FOLLOW UP QUESTION THAT ACTUALLY DOVETAILS WITH THE, THE POINT THAT'S BEING MADE. UM, ON, ON, ON THE PREVIOUS POINT YOU SAID THAT MAY MOST LIKELY HAHC IS NOT ASKED TO CALL, TO BE CALLED UPON TO QUOTE UNQUOTE APPROVE OR REGULATE MANY OF THE, THE, UH, UH, GUIDELINES OR PROJECTS THAT ARE ONGOING IN THOSE CONSERVATION CONSERVATION DISTRICTS. MY NEXT QUESTION IS ACTUALLY WHETHER, UH, UH, THE CDS, THE CONSERVATION DISTRICTS ARE ACTUALLY ACCORDED THE HSTE, THE, UH, THE TAX EXEMPTIONS. UH, SO, UH, BEFORE I GO ON, IS THAT A YES OR A NO ANSWER? SO WE SAY YES. NO, THAT'S A AHA MOMENT. WILL YOU HAVE A LIGHT BULB OVER MY HEAD? THAT'S ANOTHER THING THAT WE CAN TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION AND WORK INTO THIS ORDINANCE. IT'S VERY IMPORTANT. YES. I THINK, I THINK THE, THE POINT THAT WE ARE TRYING TO MAKE HERE IS THAT IF WE WANT THEM TO ALSO PRESERVE THEIR STRUCTURES, ALTHOUGH NOT AS ONEROUS AS HISTORIC DISTRICTS, AND THEY ARE GIVEN THAT BENEFIT OF ALSO IF THEY DO WORK, THEY SHOULD, UH, THEY SHOULD GET THE BENEFIT OF THE HSTE, THEN HOW DO WE REGULATE THAT? BECAUSE PRESENTLY IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS, THE ONLY WAY THAT THE CITY COUNCIL ECONOMIC OFFICER REVIEWS AND HSTE IS WHEN A COA IS APPROVED MM-HMM . THE WORK IS CHECKED TO BE, HAVE, HAVE COMPLETED MM-HMM . ALL IN GOOD STANDING, AND THEN THEY SUBMIT WHAT WAS ACTUALLY RESTORED AND WHAT WAS NEW THAT WAS NOT INCLUDED IN THE, IN THE TAX EXEMPTION, RIGHT? MM-HMM . SO THE COA WAS A CRITICAL ASPECT OF THAT BECAUSE THEN YOU, YOU ALLOW FOR WHAT IS TO BE PRESERVED AND WHAT IS A NEW ADDITION, FOR EXAMPLE MM-HMM . MM-HMM . SO THEN THE SECOND FOLLOW UP QUESTION I HAVE IS THAT ON ONE OF YOUR SLIDES, YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE A CONSERVATION DISTRICT THAT INCLUDES STRUCTURE OF ANY AGE. SO THEN MY QUESTION IS, WHEN, WHEN, SO SOMEBODY CAN APPLY FOR HSTE, IF HIS HOUSE IS ONLY 30 YEARS OLD AND HE DOES REMODEL THE WHOLE HOUSE AGAIN, CAN HE BE GIVEN A TAX EXEMPTION? BECAUSE ALTHOUGH HIS HOUSE IS NOT HISTORIC, BUT YOU DID NOT SAY THAT THE CONSERVATION DISTRICTS ONLY GOVERNS HISTORIC STRUCTURES. MM-HMM . IT SAYS INCLUDE STRUCTURE OF ANY AGE. MM-HMM . SO ARE THEY, THEN THE QUESTION REMAINS, DO THEY ALSO QUALIFY FOR THE HSD? I SEE THAT, UH, MS. MICKELSON IS SHAKING AHEAD, BUT IS THIS [00:35:01] LANGUAGE CLEAR IN THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT? IF I CAN, MR. CHAIR, THAT PLEASE, THAT IS COVERED. HISTORIC TAX CREDITS ARE COVERED BY STATE LAW, SO IT WOULD NOT BE ELIGIBLE UNLESS IT'S ELIGIBLE FOR THAT DESIGNATION AS A HISTORIC PROPERTY UNDER OUR CURRENT ORDINANCES. THESE ARE NOT NECESSARILY THAT, THAT, SO NO, I DON'T THINK IT WOULD APPLY. I DON'T THINK IT NEEDS TO BE IN HERE BECAUSE WE'VE GOT OUR OWN ORDINANCE ON HISTORIC TAX CREDITS AS WELL AS STATE LAW TO GOVERN THAT. AND MICKELSON, I THINK THAT HE WAS NO, UH, REFERRING TO THE LOCAL TAX INCENTIVE, HIS UNDERSTAND YOU MENTIONED STATE THOUGH, WHICH IS GOVERNED BY WHAT WE CAN REDUCE IS GOVERNED BY STATE LAW. GOTCHA. BUT DO WHAT TO, JUST TO, NO, JUST TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT ONE POINT, IF, IF THE PROJECT QUALIFIED AS AN HISTORIC STRUCTURE, UNDER, UNDER, IF THIS, IF THIS, UM, CONSERVATION DISTRICT IS APPROVED AND AND APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL, THAT STRUCTURES THAT PARTICIPATE IN THAT PROGRAM, CONCEIVABLY MIGHT PARTICIPATE IN THE ABATEMENT IF THEY WERE QUALIFYING OR UNDERSTATE LAW, THEY HAVE TO BE, UM, A LANDMARK ESSENTIALLY, OR WITHIN A DISTRICT, IS WHAT I'M HEARING YOU SAY. YES. OKAY. I BELIEVE THAT'S CORRECT. WE CAN VERIFY AND CONFIRM THAT THOUGH, WITH THE ATTORNEYS WHO WORK ON THE TAX CREDITS. SO SOMEONE PARTICIPATING IN THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT COULD NOMINATE THEIR HOME AS A LANDMARK OR PARTICULAR LANDMARK AND STILL PARTICIPATE AND DO BOTH, ESSENTIALLY. THAT WOULD BE THE PATH. THAT WOULD BE CORRECT. OKAY. MR. CHAIR, I, I'LL, I'D LIKE TO TAKE AN EXCEPTION TO THAT BECAUSE I DO KNOW MANY HOUSES IN HISTORIC DISTRICT OF HEIGHTS, FOR EXAMPLE, DO NOT NEED TO BE PROTECTED LANDMARK, AND THEY APPLY FOR TAX CREDIT. UH, I WILL, I WILL. BUT, BUT THEY'RE, BUT THEY'RE IN A DISTRICT WHICH GIVES THEM THAT, THAT CORRECT. RIGHT. BUT SO THEN I'M TRYING TO DETERMINE AS WELL WHETHER CONSERVATION DISTRICT ALLOWS FOR THAT. IT WOULD NOT, IT, IT, IT WOULD NOT. THAT THAT'S WHAT I'M HEARING, THAT IF, IF A SUBJECT PROPERTY IN A CONSERVATION DISTRICT SHOULD THAT COME TO BE IS MORE THAN 50 YEARS OLD, LET'S SAY. WELL, AND, AND IT MEETS THE CRITERIA TO SAY, TO BE A LANDMARK OR PROTECTED LANDMARK. THE, THE, THE, THE, THE HOMEOWNER COULD PARTICIPATE IN THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THEY COULD OPT, UH, IF IT'S NOT IN, THIS IS NOT A DISTRICT, HISTORIC DISTRICT, LET'S SAY, THEY COULD APPLY TO BE A LANDMARK AND, AND, AND GET THE BENEFIT OF THAT ABATEMENT, BUT THAT WOULD BE A SEPARATE PROGRAM. AND SO JUST BEING IN THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT WOULD NOT ACHIEVE AN ABATEMENT. WELL, I THINK IF THAT'S THE CASE, THE LANGUAGE HAS TO BE CLEAR, BECAUSE FOR ME, THE IDEA WAS AS A CONSERVATION DISTRICT, YOU STILL HAVE 51% OF THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO BUY IN ON IT, AND LIKELY THEY HAVE THE HISTORIC STRUCTURES. AND NOW YOU'RE SAYING THEY DON'T QUALIFY FOR THE ABATEMENT. SO TO ME, TO THEM, THAT IS LIKE A TWO STEP PROCESS IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. IT'S NOT A TWO STEP PROCESS. THE MOMENT YOU ARE DEEMED TO BE A HISTORIC DISTRICT, ONCE HISTORIC HOUSE DOESN'T NEED TO BE LANDMARKED TO GET THE HSTE ABATEMENT. SO NOW YOU'RE SAYING THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT DOES NOT QUALIFY FOR THAT, AND YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE IT IS ANOTHER LANDMARK CASE. SO THAT NEEDS TO BE CLEARLY WRITTEN IN THE, IN THE, UH, CONSERVATION DISTRICT. BECAUSE I DON'T SEE HOW THIS IS TIED TO THE HSTE YET, OR YOU, IF YOU PLAN TO DIVORCE IT, IT NEEDS TO BE VERY CLEAR. OR IF YOU PLAN TO HAVE A, A, A EVE STATEMENT, THAT ALSO NEEDS TO BE VERY CLEAR IN THE DISTRICT, IN, IN THE CONSERVATION, UH, ORDINANCE. THAT'S, BUT ISN'T THAT COMMISSIONER YAP. I MEAN, ISN'T THAT JUST MAKING AN ASSUMPTION THAT IT'S ELIGIBLE? I MEAN, WHY IS THE, WHY IS THERE AN ASSUMPTION THAT IT'S ELIGIBLE? IT'S NOT A, A HISTORIC DISTRICT? WELL, THE, THE, THAT, THAT'S PART OF, BECAUSE WE ARE JUST LOWERING THE, UH, THRESHOLD. BUT WHAT, WHAT HAPPENS IF A PERSON WHO ACTUALLY, I'M ACTUALLY, UH, WANTING TO FIGURE OUT IF, IF A PERSON WHO OWNS A HOUSE THAT IS MORE THAN 50 YEARS OLD WAS IN A CONSERVATION DISTRICT, THEY DID NOT GET THE HISTORIC DISTRICT BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T PASS THE TWO THIRD, UH, UH, WHAT DO YOU CALL A VOTING MARK? BUT NOW IT'S ONLY 50%. BUT NOW, OKAY, THEY PASS AND GET A CONSERVATION DISTRICT, BUT THIS PERSON'S HISTORIC HOUSE STILL DON'T QUALIFY FOR, UH, FOR HSTE IF WORK HAS BEEN DONE AND, AND, UH, APPROPRIATE WORK HAS BEEN DONE. SO THAT MEANS HAS TO GO THROUGH A TWO STEP PROCESS. RIGHT. BUT UNDERSTAND, BUT THE LANGUAGE, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, DOES NOT, UM, DOES, I MEAN, ESSENTIALLY THEY CAN BE IN A CONSERVATION DISTRICT IF THESE COME TO PASS. AND IF THEY WANT TO TAKE, AND IF THEY'RE IN A, A HOME, A A QUALIFIED HISTORIC HOME, THEY WOULD SIMPLY NEED TO BECOME A, A LANDMARK INDIVIDUALLY, WHICH, WHICH MANY PEOPLE DO IN THE CITY [00:40:01] OF, OF ALL DIFFERENT TIME PERIODS, AND TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE TAX ABATEMENT SO THAT THEY, THEY, THEY STILL HAVE THAT OPTION. THEY HAVE THE OPTION TO DO BOTH. IT, I THINK YOU MENTIONED TWO STEPS, BUT IT BASICALLY, THEY'RE, THEY BOTH OPTIONS REMAIN ON THE TABLE, BUT JUST, BUT, BUT THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT ITSELF DOESN'T, WHAT, WHAT I'M UNDERSTANDING DOESN'T JUST, UM, ALLOW ANY STRUCTURE IN THE DISTRICT TO PARTICIPATE. AB CHAIR, MR. SO I'M CHALLENGING THE BOARD, WHY NOT MAKE IT EASIER AS OPPOSED TO MAKING IT A TWO STEP PROCESS. WHY NOT WRITE LANGUAGE IN THERE THAT ALLOWS FOR IT IF ONE'S HOUSE WAS MORE THAN 50 YEARS OLD? BUT I'M, I'M, I'M GONNA LET LEGAL ANSWER THE QUESTION. 'CAUSE WHAT I UNDERSTOOD CLEARLY IS THAT CAN, CAN I JUST SAY, COMMENT NOTED AND WE'LL TAKE THIS INTO CONSIDERATION WITH STAFF AND WITH THE ATTORNEYS WHO HANDLE THE HISTORIC TAX CREDIT PROGRAM, BECAUSE WE WANNA MAKE SURE YES. GIVE THE BROADEST NOTICE, BUT MAKE SURE IT COMPLIES WITH OUR LOCAL ORDINANCE AND STATE LAWS. SO, CAN I, CAN I SUGGEST THAT AS CERTAINLY? THANK YOU. DOES THAT HELP? YEAH. OKAY. YEAH, THAT HELPS. THANKS. ANY OTHER COMMISSIONERS WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK OR ASK QUESTIONS OF ROMAN BEFORE WE OPEN UP TO PUBLIC COMMENT? OKAY. AT THIS TIME, I'M GONNA OPEN UP, UH, THE PUBLIC HEARING. AND AGAIN, I WANT TO, AS ROMAN MENTIONED, WE ARE VERY HONORED TO HAVE COUNCIL MEMBER SALLY ALCORN, UH, IN OUR, IN OUR PRESENCE. AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE COUNCIL MEMBER IS HERE TO LISTEN, UH, DURING THE MEETING, UM, ANY, ANY TIME IF THE COUNCIL MEMBER WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK OR ADDRESS THE COMMISSION, PLEASE, UH, JUST MAKE, MAKE THAT KNOWN. AND WE ARE VERY HAP HAPPY TO HAVE YOU HERE. UH, WE DON'T NORMALLY HAVE COMMISSION COUNCIL MEMBERS HERE, UH, AT OUR COMMISSION. SO, UH, WE'RE, WE ARE VERY PLEASED MEETING. SO . BUT, BUT, BUT THANK YOU FOR COMING. UM, SO WITH THAT, I'M GOING TO, A NUMBER OF PEOPLE HAVE SIGNED UP TO SPEAK, AND SO I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA, UM, START WITH THE, UH, ORIGINAL. CAN YOU PLEASE OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING? YES. I, I BELIEVE I STATED THAT. OKAY. THE PUBLIC MEETING, JUST MAKING SURE THE HEARING IS OPEN. YEAH. OKAY. SO, UH, THE FIRST SPEAKER WHO HAS SIGNED UP TO SPEAK IS DAVID BUSH. I'VE NEVER BEEN FIRST BEFORE. HI, I'M DAVID BUSH, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF PRESERVATION HOUSTON. UH, WE BELIEVE THE CONSERVATION DISTRICTS, UH, WOULD BE A VALUABLE TOOL TO GIVE RESIDENTS A VOICE IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD'S FUTURES. UH, IT COULD BE VERY VALUABLE IN PLACES LIKE INDEPENDENCE HEIGHTS NEAR NORTH SIDE AND IDLE WOOD, WHICH ARE NATIONAL REGISTERED DISTRICTS, BUT NOT CITY HISTORIC DISTRICTS COULD ALSO COMPLIMENT THE EXISTING CULTURAL ARTS DISTRICTS IN FIFTH WARD AND THIRD WARD, AND THE HERITAGE DISTRICT IN FRIEDMANS TOWN. SO I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING HOW THIS, UH, DRAFT MOVES FORWARD. THANK YOU. OUR NEXT SPEAKER IS MARY BALLARD. IS MS. BALLARD, UH, IN THE ROOM OR, UH, ATTENDING VIRTUALLY? DID YOU MEAN MARY? OKAY, GO AHEAD. MARY BALLARD. YES, UHHUH . UH, HI. AND I'VE ENJOYED LISTENING TO THE MEETING, UH, TRYING TO, UH, ESTABLISH MY PRESENCE HERE. I, I JUST WANTED IT TO GO ON RECORD, UH, THAT I DO SUPPORT THE CONS OF, UH, CONSERVATION DISTRICT, UH, BECAUSE I THINK IT IS, IT, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD BE A TOOL THAT WE CAN USE TO, UH, ADDRESS A, A LOT OF UNSOLICITED AND UNWANTED DEVELOP IN, IN MY, IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD. I'VE BEEN HERE SINCE, UH, THE EARLY SIXTIES, 60, AND, UM, IT'S JUST SOME THINGS I'M NOT COMFORTABLE WITH THAT'S, UH, IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE WAY IT LOOKS NOW. UM, IT'S JUST, SERIOUSLY, SO, I, I JUST WANTED TO GO ON RECORD. THAT'S ALL TO SUPPORT, UH, THAT I DO, UH, SUPPORT THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT. AND, UH, I APPRECIATE YOU ALL ALLOWING ME TO COME IN AND SPEAK AND SAY THOSE FEW WORDS. THANK YOU, CONNIE. THANK YOU, MS. MALLARD. OUR NEXT SPEAKER IS EMILY DUWAN. SO YOU, YOU'RE NOT SPEAKING. OKAY. FOLLOWED BY SICE HAWKINS. STAR SIX TO A MUTE, IF YOU'D LIKE TO SPEAK. THE CHAIR IS RECOGNIZING EMILY ARWIN, FOLLOWED BY SEAN DESE HAWKINS. IF YOU'RE AVAILABLE, PLEASE MAKE YOURSELF KNOWN. THANK YOU. BUT, BUT YOU DON'T SEE HER ON THE VIRTUAL SCREEN. [00:45:02] OKAY. THE NEXT PERSON SIGN UP TO SPEAK IS SUSIE HARTGROVE. GOOD AFTERNOON AND THANK YOU COMMISSION. SUSIE HARTGROVE, REPRESENTING THE HOUSTON REAL ESTATE COUNCIL. UM, AS WE STATED A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, WE CONTINUE TO HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT HOW SHORT A TIME THE PROCESS HAS BEEN FOR THIS ORDINANCE. UH, FIRST ARRIVING JANUARY 21ST, AND HERE WE ARE, AND IT'S ONLY FEBRUARY 9TH. UM, WE DO THINK IT NEEDS, UH, TO BE FULLY VETTED AND WITH ADDITIONAL TIME FOR COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT AND SUPPORT. WE DO THINK IT'S WRITTEN BROADLY. I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT COULD BE CHANGED AND PULLED IN, BECAUSE LOOK AT THE QUESTIONS Y'ALL HAVE ALREADY. UH, WE HAVE QUESTIONS. UH, WE THINK THE 51% THRESHOLD IS LOW. UM, YOU'RE ACTUALLY GOING, THIS COULD PASS IN WIDE SWATHS OF HOUSTON, AND, UH, WE'RE JUST, WE JUST THINK THAT THAT IS A LOW THRESHOLD WHEN YOU'RE ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT RESTRICTING PROPERTY, UH, AND WHAT YOUR NEIGHBOR CAN BUILD OR REDEVELOP ON THAT LOT. UM, WE ALSO THINK THAT BECAUSE IT'S AKIN TO DEED RESTRICTIONS, THIS IS GONNA PUT THE CITY IN THE FRAME OF BEING AN HOA FOR HUNDREDS OF NEIGHBORHOODS ACROSS HOUSTON. AND WE THINK THAT COULD BE A PROBLEM. WE THINK, I, I, I APPRECIATE WHAT ROMAN SAID ABOUT SOME OF THE DIFFERENT, UM, MENU ITEMS THAT PEOPLE COULD PULL FROM. I THINK THAT WHEN YOU GET DOWN TO LIGHTING AND FENCING AND PAVING, YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE VERY ITEMS THAT, YOU KNOW, DO YOU REALLY WANNA REGULATE THOSE ITEMS WITHIN SOME OF THESE PLACES? AND THEN IF YOU HAVE VIOLATIONS ON THINGS LIKE THAT, WHO'S GOING TO ENFORCE THAT? YOU KNOW, WE, WE SEE THAT AS A BIG CONCERN, UH, ON HOW YOU'RE GONNA OPERATE THE ORDINANCE GOING FORWARD. SO, UM, AGAIN, THOSE ARE OUR CONCERNS. WE WOULD JUST REALLY LIKE TO HAVE MORE TIME, MORE TIME TO ENGAGE WITH THE CITY AND MORE, AND, AND REALLY UNDERSTANDING WHAT PROBLEM YOU'RE TRYING TO SOLVE. MAYBE WE CAN HELP YOU SOLVE IT, . UM, SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. TIME. THE NEXT PERSON SIGNED UP TO SPEAK IS REVEREND JEROME C NICHOLSON. MR. MR. REVEREND'S NOT VIRTUALLY SEEN. OKAY. IS MARY FONTANO PRESENT? YES, I AM HERE. UM, WAIT, CAN YOU HEAR ME? YES. OKAY. I'M HERE. OKAY. FIRST OF ALL, LET ME START AS A RESIDENT OF THE HISTORIC AFRICAN, AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY OF PLEASANTVILLE, THE FIRST OF ITS KIND IN THE STATE OF TEXAS, AND ONE OF ONLY THREE IN THE ENTIRE NATION. THIS, THIS, THIS CONSERVATORY DISTRICT IS MUCH NEEDED. IT'S, IT'S VERY, VERY MUCH NEEDED. UM, PLEASE UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF PRESERVING THE RICH HISTORIES OF COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, WHICH ARE OFTEN LOST THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE NATION. AND THAT HAS TO STOP. THE COMMITMENT TO PRESERVING AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITIES OF COLOR HAS JUST NOT BEEN DISPROPORTIONATELY LEFT OUT, BUT ALMOST NON-EXISTENCE. UM, THERE JUST HASN'T BEEN A PUSH NATIONWIDE TO PRESERVE COMMUNITIES OF COLOR. AND BECAUSE FOR SOME OF YOU WHO ARE NOT IN THAT BUBBLE OF LOSING IDENTITY OF THE CONTRIBUTIONS OF HISTORICAL AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITIES THROUGHOUT THIS ENTIRE NATION, THEN MAYBE YOU MIGHT NOT UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT FOR THOSE OF US WHO ARE, IT'S VERY CLEAR WE NEED THE HELP. UM, I WANT TO GO ON TO SAY AGAIN, HOW CRUCIAL THIS IS AND HOW WE DO SUPPORT THIS NEW IDEA OF, OF A CONSERVATIVE, OF HAVING A CONSERVATION DISTRICT. UM, I WANNA GIVE SPECIAL THANKS TO THE CITY OF HOUSTON'S OFFICE OF PRESERVATION, JA, JASON AND ROMAN, UM, DAVID BUSH AND MAYOR TURNER FOR DOING SO MUCH WORK TO GET THIS DONE. BUT AGAIN, WE NEED IT AND WE NEED IT NOW BECAUSE WE ARE LOSING EVERY DAY, EVERY MINUTE WE ARE LOSING, OUR COMMUNITIES ARE PUT UNDER WATER. OUR COMMUNITIES JUST DON'T EXIST. PRIME EXAMPLE, HARLEM, WHAT'S HAPPENING TO IT? UM, IT'S IMPORTANT. THAT'S WHAT I HAVE TO SAY. TIME. ANY QUESTIONS? THANK [00:50:01] YOU, UH, COMMISSIONER, IS THERE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE SPEAKER? OKAY, MS. FONDO, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR COMMENTS. THE NEXT SPEAKER SIGNED UP TO SPEAK IS MATTHEW FEA. IF YOU COULD RE PLEASE RESTATE YOUR NAME. HI, THANK YOU. UH, MY NAME IS MATT FEA. I AM A PROFESSOR AT SOUTH TEXAS COLLEGE OF LAW HOUSTON, WHERE I SPECIALIZE IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND LAND USE PLANNING. UM, AND I HAVE A COUPLE CONCERNS ABOUT THIS PROPOSED ORDINANCE THAT I'D LIKE TO SHARE TODAY. UH, SO LIMITED TO JUST TWO. UM, BUT A FEW MINUTES AGO IN THE PRESENTATION, I THINK THE QUIET PART WAS SPOKEN OUT LOUD, WHICH IS THAT THIS IS A HISTORIC PRESERVATION TOOL. THAT'S WHAT ROMAN SAID. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE. UM, SO ONE THING THAT I WANT TO BRING TO THE COMMISSION'S ATTENTION IS THAT IF, SO, IT'S GONNA BE SUBJECT TO ALL THE RULES OF HISTORIC DISTRICTS ACCORDING TO THE STATE LEGISLATURE, THE STATE SUPREME COURT, AND THE HOUSTON CITY CHARTER. UH, THAT INVOLVES A LOT OF PROCEDURAL REQUIREMENTS, HEIGHTENED NOTICE STANDARDS, OPT OUT PROVISIONS THAT THE LEGISLATURE HAS QUITE RECENTLY PROVIDED, UH, THAT, THAT ARE QUITE CLEAR. AND THE RIGHT TO A 75% VOTE OF THE GOVERNING BODY FOR ANYBODY WHO OPTS OUT. UH, THESE ARE, UH, IT'S A PANOPLY OF PROCEDURAL HEIGHTENED RIGHTS TO PROTECT TEXANS PROPERTY RIGHTS UNDER STATE LAW. AND THE STATE HAS, HAS REALLY MADE THIS CLEAR, UM, THE STATE SUPREME COURT IN A CASE THAT I WORKED ON, THAT THE CITY WON, UH, AND I LOST ON BEHALF OF MY CLIENTS. BUT THE, UH, IN, IN POWELL, THE, THE COURT DID HOLD THAT HISTORIC DISTRICTING IS GOVERNED UNDER CHAPTER TWO 11 OF THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE. AND I DON'T THINK THAT THE ORDINANCE IS CURRENTLY DRAFTED. IT MAKES A COUPLE REFERENCES TO THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE, BUT IT DOESN'T REALLY BRING IN ALL THOSE PROCEDURAL PROTECTIONS. IT LOOKS AT THIS 51% AS THE THRESHOLD. IT DOESN'T DEFINE WHO GETS TO DECIDE WHAT COUNTS AS A YES AND A NO. AND ONCE THE 51% GETS HIT, IT'S TOTALLY WITHIN THE DISCRETION OF THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT. EVEN IN SPITE OF ALL THE RHETORIC ABOUT HOW WE'RE GOING TO GET INPUT FROM NEIGHBORHOODS AND COMMUNITIES AND CITIZENS, IT'S, IT'S JUST NOT WRITTEN INTO THE CURRENT DRAFT. UM, SO, SO THAT'S MY FIRST CRITIQUE IS THAT, UM, WE, WE HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE, THE STATE LAW OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION. CALLING IT SOMETHING ELSE. DOESN'T CHANGE THE, THE RULES TIME. UH, OKAY. I'M, I'M SORRY IF, IF I COULD JUST THROW ONE MORE THING UP THERE. OH, SHE ON SPEAKER MORE TIME. IS THERE A SECOND? MAY I HAVE 30 SECONDS, SECONDS, FIVE SECONDS. OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR? MY SECOND POINT WAS JUST A MOMENT. ALL IN FAVOR. AYE. THANK YOU SO MUCH. ANY OPPOSED? AYE. ANY ABSTENTIONS? OKAY, PLEASE PROCEED. I APPRECIATE IT. I'M OUT OF TIME. UH, BUT MY TWO POINTS ARE, ONE, WE HAVE TO FILE STATE LAW, AND THE SECOND IS THAT THIS SORT OF PROVIDES THE APPEARANCE OF AN END RUN AROUND THAT STATE LAW. UM, AND THAT'S NOT THE WAY TO RUN A DEMOCRACY. SO THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU, SIR. OKAY. I'VE GOT ANOTHER LIST OF SPEAKERS WHO HAVE SIGNED UP BEGINNING OF THE MEETING. UM, THE NEXT SPEAKER SIGNED UP IS STEVEN LONGMEYER. GOOD AFTERNOON. UM, WELL, MY REMARKS ARE CHANGED A BIT NOW SINCE, UH, ROMAN'S PRESENTATION ADDRESSED SOME OF MY CONCERNS. UM, SO I'M GONNA START WITH SECTION 33 6 0 6, AND MY CONCERNS ARE THAT IT SAYS THE DISTRICT'S, UH, SPECIFIC ORDINANCE SHALL CONTROL OVER CONFLICTS WITH OTHER CODES OR ORDINANCES EXCEPT FOR THOSE FOR THE PROTECTION OF PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY. SO, AS I READ IT ON ITS FACE, IT MEANS THAT THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT ORDINANCE, IF IT SHOULD HAPPEN TO INCLUDE IN HISTORIC DISTRICT, SUPERSEDES THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION ORDINANCE. AND THAT SURELY CANNOT BE WHAT THIS COMMITTEE, WHAT THIS COMMISSION WOULD SUPPORT. SURELY THE MORE RESTRICTIVE OF THE TWO ORDINANCES SHOULD ALWAYS TAKE PRECEDENCE. WE'VE RUN INTO THIS IN MY HISTORIC DISTRICT ON A NUMBER OF OTHER TYPES OF ORDINANCES AND STANDARDS BEFORE, AND, UH, REALLY, IT, IT IS A DANGER TO THE VERY LIFE OF HISTORIC DISTRICTS IF WE DON'T CORRECT THIS FLAW. THE SECOND ISSUE [00:55:01] I WANNA ADDRESS IS THE 51%, 51% OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS WHO DETERMINES HOW MANY PROPERTY OWNERS WHO CONFIRMS THAT ALL 100% WERE NOTIFIED? IS IT 50% OF 51% OF THOSE WHO RESPONDED? AGAIN, THESE ARE ALL ISSUES THAT WE'VE GONE THROUGH THROUGH THE MID ITERATIONS OF THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OR ORDINANCE. AND THESE KINDS OF LITTLE DETAILS, UH, ARE THE DEVILS THAT WILL EITHER PASS OR KILL, UH, WHAT YOU WANT FROM THIS ORDINANCE. THAT BEING SAID, I'M DELIGHTED TO SUPPORT THIS, AND THE CITY COUNCIL HAS RECOGNIZED THAT IT'S TIME TO REIGN IN DEVELOPERS BUILDING BIGGER AND BETTER BOXES, WHICH RARELY HAVE EVER BENEFIT NEIGHBORHOODS. UM, IN FACT, THEY DO QUITE THE OPPOSITE. WHEN YOU PUT PEOPLE IN BIG BOXES IN OLD HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOODS, YOU KILL THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND YOU PUT A BUNCH OF STRANGERS TOGETHER. SO PLEASE MOVE FORWARD TO MAKE THIS A MORE PERFECT ORDINANCE, AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION. THANK YOU, SIR. THE NEXT SPEAKER SIGNED UP TO SPEAK IS TAMARA BELL. GOOD AFTERNOON. I'M TAMARA BELL AND I'M HERE TO SPEAK ON THE DRAFT THAT I RECEIVED. I APPRECIATE EVERYTHING YOU SAID, ROMAN, BUT THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE IN THE PUBLIC. SO THIS IS WHAT I'M GONNA SPEAK ON. I WANT TO SEE WHAT Y'ALL GOING TO DO, BUT I'M GONNA TALK ABOUT WHAT DRAFT WAS ALLOWED TO BE OUT. WHEN I WAS TOLD ABOUT THIS, I GOT EXCITED. I DON'T KNOW A LOT OF YOU ALL, AND I DON'T KNOW IF Y'ALL KNOW ME, BUT I KNOW FOR SURE JENNIFER DOES, AND I KNOW FOR, WELL, TANYA DOES. I FIGHT FOR COMMUNITIES NO MATTER WHERE THEY ARE TO BE ABLE TO BE IN THEIR COMMUNITY AND HAVE A HIGH QUALITY OF LIFE. I DON'T CARE IF IT'S A LIQUOR STORE ON EVERY CORNER OR A CHURCH ON EVERY CORNER. I TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT WHOEVER IS THERE, THAT THEY'RE HAPPY WHERE THEY ARE. THIS RIGHT HERE SCARED THE HELL OUTTA ME. I'M NOT LYING. IT SAYS ON HERE, CLEARLY A CONSERVATION DISTRICT MAY ONLY BE INITIATED BY THE DEPARTMENT. WHAT DEPARTMENT? WHO DEPARTMENT WHAT? IT'S 50,000 DEPARTMENTS AT THE CITY. THEN IT SAYS THE DEPARTMENT MAY SELECT APPROPRIATE AREAS THAT WOULD BE ELIGIBLE FOR AND BENEFIT FROM CONSERVATION DISTRICT DESIGNATION, AND MAY CREATE AN ANNUAL PLAN FOR ONE OR MORE CONS CON CONSERVATION DISTRICTS. WHAT DEPARTMENT? I MEAN, THE FACT THAT, THAT THE ARCHEOLOGICAL BOARD SAW THIS AND SAID, MAKE THIS THE DRAFT IS CONCERNING BIG TIME FOR ME. HOW COULD YOU LET THIS OUT? THIS RIGHT HERE IS WHAT OUR COMMUNITIES ARE AFRAID OF. YOU ALL ALREADY KNOW IN THE RIVERSIDE DISTRICT, WE FOUGHT AGAINST A HISTORIC DESIGNATION BECAUSE OF WHAT UMLA SPOKE ABOUT. THE ONS BURDEN PUTTING ON UNDERPRIVILEGED COMMUNITIES WHO HAVE TO COMPLY TO A HISTORIC DISTRICT. THEY CAN'T DO IT. THEY DON'T HAVE THAT KIND OF MONEY. I DON'T CARE HOW BEAUTIFUL THE HOUSE LOOK, TRYING TO BUY THAT SAME SHINGLE ROOF NOW, THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT. THAT'S THEIR WHOLE YEAR. SOCIAL SECURITY, GETTING THOSE WOODEN WINDOWS. THEY DON'T HAVE THAT MONEY. SO WHEN I HEARD ABOUT WHAT THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT, AND TANYA TOLD ME, I GOT EXCITED BECAUSE I, WE FIGHT HARD TO KEEP DEVELOPERS OUT OF OUR COMMUNITY FROM CHANGING IT FOR WHAT WE WANT IN MCGREGOR AND IN RIVERSIDE TERRACE. AND TO ME, THIS WAS THE OPPOSITE OF THAT, THAT A DIRECTOR COULD TELL YOU WHETHER YOU WANTED IT OR NOT. SO UNTIL I SEE THE NEW, I'M GONNA BELIEVE WHAT I SEE, AND THAT'S THIS RIGHT HERE AND THIS I HAVE A TOTAL PROBLEM AGAINST YOU. CLEAN IT UP, YOU GET IT RIGHT, AND MAKE IT DO WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO DO. THEN Y'ALL HAVE MY SUPPORT. BUT RIGHT NOW, AS STATED, I'M AGAINST IT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS. THE NEXT SPEAKER IS MATTHEW CAMP. ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU. AND I'LL BE BRIEF, AND COULD YOU, COULD YOU JUST PLEASE RESTATE YOUR NAME AS WELL? YES, UH, MATTHEW CAMP. UM, I WAS A MEMBER OF THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT SUBCOMMITTEE. I'M ON THE LIVABLE PLACES COMMITTEE. AND, UH, I DO SUPPORT THE NEED FOR CERTAIN AREAS TO MAINTAIN THEIR CULTURAL, UH, CHARACTERISTIC CHARACTERISTICS AND SIGNIFICANCE, UH, AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT INFRINGE ON THE RIGHTS OF OTHER PROPERTY OWNERS IN THE AREA AND IS NOT COUNTERPRODUCTIVE TO SOME OF THE OTHER INITIATIVES THAT WE'RE WORKING ON AS FAR AS AFFORDABILITY, UH, ACCESSIBILITY AND EQUITY IN HOUSING. AND I KNOW, UH, ROMAN SAID, MR. DAVIS, ANOTHER FELLOW COMMITTEE MEMBER, SAID THAT IT HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT, BUT ALSO HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO NOT DO THAT AND LIMIT ACCESS SUPPLY AND AFFORDABILITY. UH, I DO BELIEVE THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME, SOME METHOD OR OPPORTUNITY TO EXCLUDE COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES, NON-CONFORMING STRUCTURES OR VACANT TRACKS. UM, I DON'T BELIEVE IN OUR INITIAL DISCUSSIONS THIS WAS EVER MEANT TO COVER THOSE. IT WAS PREDOMINANTLY A RESIDENTIAL, UH, BILL OR ORDINANCE, SORRY. UH, AS OTHER OWNER, UH, MEMBERS HAVE SAID, I THINK THE 51% OWNERSHIP IS TOO LOW. IT NEEDS TO BE CLARIFIED AND DEFINED ON IF IT'S PROPERTY OWNERSHIP VERSUS 51% OF LAND AREA, OR IT'S JUST A PERCENTAGE [01:00:01] OF THE VOTES THAT ARE TALLIED. UM, AND AGAIN, WE MET, UH, LAST TIME AS COMMITTEE IN MARCH OF 2021. THIS ORDINANCE WAS JUST RELEASED, UH, TO US JANUARY OF 23. AND THAT WAS KIND OF A PRETTY BIG GAP WHERE NOT A LOT OF THIS WAS EITHER MADE BACK TO THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS FROM OTHER MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC. AND I KNOW THERE'S A LIVABLE PLACES MEETING ON THE 21ST AS WELL AS A COUNCIL MEETING, UH, THE NEXT DAY TO DISCUSS OR VOTE ON THIS. AND I WOULD ASK AS A COMMITTEE, WE HAD SEVERAL MONTHS TO WORK ON THE CONCEPT OF THIS, UH, ORDINANCE, AND I WOULD ASK THAT WE HAVE FURTHER TIME TO DISCUSS AND WORK ON THE DETAILS OF THIS ORDINANCE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THE NEXT SPEAKER WHO HAS SIGNED UP IS, UH, JOHN RENSON. NOT, NOT SURE I PRONOUNCED IT CORRECTLY, BUT IF YOU COULD RESTATE YOUR NAME. THANK YOU. SURE. UH, IT WAS, YOU PRONOUNCED IT CORRECTLY, JOHN RENTS. I'M WITH, UH, HOUSTON REAL ESTATE COUNCIL AND ALSO BOXER PROPERTY, WHICH IS A OWNER OF PRIMARILY COMMERCIAL OFFICE BUILDINGS IN THE CITY OF, WE IN FACT HAVE 27 BUILDINGS IN THE CITY OF HOUSTON CURRENTLY. AND I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THIS ORDINANCE AND, UH, ITS POTENTIAL TO PULL OUR BUILDINGS INTO WHAT'S BASICALLY A CITY SPONSORED HOA, UM, WITH ONLY THE VOTE OF A FEW PROPERTY OWNERS. AND I SAY THAT BECAUSE THE ORDINANCE AS WRITTEN IS VERY UNCLEAR. IT HAS NO MINIMUM SIZE, NO MAXIMUM SIZE. IT COULD BE A HANDFUL OF PROPERTIES, UH, THAT DECIDE TO GET TOGETHER AND CREATE WITH THE DIRECTORS, UH, UNDER THE DIRECTOR'S, UH, UH, CONTROL A NEW DISTRICT WITH A WHOLE LAUNDRY LIST OF NEW GUIDELINES AND NEW STANDARDS, UH, ALL OF WHICH COULD AFFECT OUR PROPERTY. UH, I'VE HEARD A LOT OF DISCUSSION TODAY ABOUT PROTECTING CERTAIN COMMUNITIES, UH, TO WHY DOESN'T THIS ORDINANCE DO THAT? IT SHOULD, IN MY OPINION, IF THAT'S THE INTENT TO BE LIMITED TO CERTAIN AREAS OF TOWN THAT REQUIRE IT FOR DESIRE, IT SHOULD BE, UH, PERHAPS A HIGHER, UH, VOTE REQUIRED, UM, PERHAPS OPT OUT PROVISION OR JUST OUTRIGHT EXCLUSION FOR COMMERCIAL OWNERS FOR, UH, CURRENTLY UNRESTRICTED TRACKS. UH, AND THAT SORT OF, UH, PROPERTY OWNERSHIP BECAUSE, UH, OTHERWISE WE'RE, WE HAVE THE POTENTIAL OF ENDING UP IN A SITUATION WHERE WE HAVE LOAN REQUIREMENTS FOR REBUILDING. UM, WE HAVE INVESTOR REQUIREMENTS, AND NOW WE HAVE A NEW, UH, SET OF RESTRICTIONS ON OUR PROPERTY THAT WEREN'T THERE WHEN WE BOUGHT IT. WHEN WE INVESTED IN IT, UH, WE WENT INTO, UH, THE OWNERSHIP OF THAT PROPERTY. SO I THINK, UH, THIS TYPE OF BROAD SWEEPING AFTER THE FACT REGULATION IS SOMETHING THAT, UH, COULD BE DAMAGING TO EXISTING COMMERCIAL PROPERTY, EXISTING USES. AND, UH, WHAT HAS MADE THIS, THIS CITY VERY SUCCESSFUL, UH, TO DATE. SO I, I JUST THINK WE NEED MORE TIME. I THINK IT NEEDS MORE DISCUSSION WITH A LOT OF IMPORTANT STAKEHOLDERS IN THE, THE CITY, MANY OF WHOM ARE REPRESENTED, UH, ON THE HRAC. AND WE'D BE HAPPY TO SIT DOWN WITH THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT, WHOEVER'S, UH, WRITING THIS AND, UH, WORK ON SOMETHING THAT ACCOMPLISHES THEIR GOALS AND RECOGNIZES OUR CONCERNS. THANK YOU. TIME. THANK YOU. THE NEXT SPEAKER IS MELANIE MILES. HELLO, COMMISSIONERS. MY NAME IS MELANIE MILES. UM, AND THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK HERE TODAY. UH, I AM THE ATTORNEY THAT REPRESENTED RIVERSIDE TERRACE, UM, IN THEIR OPPOSITION TO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. UM, I TOO, LIKE MANY OF THE SPEAKERS, PARTICULARLY MR. CAMP WITH LIVABLE SPACES, WAS VERY ENCOURAGED WHEN I SAW AN OPPORTUNITY FOR NEIGHBORHOODS TO CONSERVE THEIR CHARACTER, UM, THEIR HISTORY, UM, AND FOR HOMEOWNERS TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A VOICE IN THE PROCESS. UH, I WAS VERY, UM, DISILLUSIONED, HOWEVER, BY THE DRAFT THAT I, UH, SAW AND WHAT'S ACTUALLY ONLINE AS THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE, IT HAS MANY CONCERNS WITHIN IT, AND I ONLY HAVE TIME TO ADDRESS A COUPLE OF THEM, SPECIFICALLY THOSE, UH, ASSERTIONS HERE TODAY THAT THE HOMEOWNERS WILL ACTUALLY HAVE A VOICE IN THE PROCESS. THIS ORDINANCE IS ABSOLUTELY TO THE CONTRARY. AT NO POINT DOES IT SAY THAT A HOMEOWNER WILL HAVE ANY VOICE IN THE DESIGN PROCESS TO DECIDE WHAT RESTRICTIONS OR WHAT PROVISIONS WILL BE PLACED UPON THEIR PROPERTY AT NO POINT IN THIS ORDINANCE, DOES IT INDICATE THAT THE HOMEOWNERS WILL HAVE ANY SAY EXCEPT TO VOTE UP OR DOWN? AND ONCE [01:05:01] THAT TAKES PLACE WITH 51% OF WHATEVER, 51% ACTUALLY MEANS, THEN IT'S A RED, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, IT'S A GREEN LIGHT TO THE PLANNING DIRECTOR OR WHATEVER DEPARTMENT IS GOING TO BE REGULATING THIS. AND THEN LET'S GO ON FROM THERE. WHAT ARE THE PENALTIES FOR VIOLATING THESE CONSERVATION LAWS OR RULES OR DESIGN GUIDELINES? WHAT, WHAT ARE THE PENALTIES? UH, WHO'S GOING TO OVERSEE THAT? UM, IT DOESN'T SAY IT'S SILENT ON ALL OF THOSE THINGS. UH, HOW ARE THE VOTES TALLIED? I MEAN, THERE, THERE'S JUST A HOST OF QUESTIONS. AND WHERE'S THE FIRE IN HOUSTON THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE THIS PUSHED THROUGH IN 45 DAYS OR SO, OR LESS WITHOUT, I MEAN, WHEN WE LOOK AT THE SIDEWALK, SIDEWALK ORDINANCE OR THE SOUND BARRIER ORDINANCE, THERE WERE MANY, MANY MEETINGS. THERE ARE MANY OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE CITIZENS TO GET INVOLVED AND TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THESE ORDINANCES WERE ACTUALLY GOING TO CONTAIN. THEY DON'T HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY HERE. EVEN YOU YOURSELVES ARE CONFUSED. YOU HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT IT. WE'VE BEEN TOLD HERE TODAY THAT THIS IS JUST ONE REVISION AND THERE'S GOING TO BE ANOTHER. YET THERE'S A PLAN TO VOTE ON IN TWO WEEKS. MOTION TO EXTEND IF THE SPEAKER IS THERE A SECOND. OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? AYE. ANY OPPOSED? ABSTENTIONS, PLEASE PROCEED. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, UM, IN TWO WEEKS WITH ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS. AND I, I BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN HOPEFUL HEARTS THAT THIS CONSERVATION WOULD BE GREAT FOR THEIR COMMUNITIES. AND I HAVE A HOPEFUL HEART AS WELL. HOWEVER, IT'S NOT READY. UM, THERE ARE JUST TOO MANY QUESTIONS ABOUT IT. IT'S NOT FLUSHED OUT. IT'S TOO VAGUE THERE, OR, OR IT'S SILENT COMPLETELY ON VERY GERMANE ISSUES. ISSUES AS THIS GENTLEMAN OR, OR THIS GENTLEMAN , UH, BROUGHT UP THAT HAVE, UM, COME UP IN THE PAST WITH HISTORIC DISTRICT THAT'S CAUSED, UH, CONFLICT AND DISCORD IN THE COMMUNITIES AND AS IT PERTAINS TO THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT. SO I ASK YOU AT THE VERY MINIMUM TO PLEASE TAKE YOUR TIME. LET'S CREATE A OR A CONSERVATION ORDINANCE THAT'S GOOD FOR THIS CITY, ALLOW FOR, UM, RESIDENT INPUT AS YOU HAVE DONE WITH THE SOUND BARRIER. UM, SO, UM, I ASK YOUR CONSIDERATION FOR THAT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THE NEXT SPEAKER, UH, WHO'S SIGNED UP IS DONNA THOMAS, WHICH I THINK WILL BE ATTENDING VIRTUALLY STAR SIX TO UNMUTE YES. BY MOST FOLKS. THANK YOU. PLEASE, PLEASE ANNOUNCE YOUR NAME AND PROCEED. YES, DONNA THOMAS. I AM CONCERNED ABOUT THIS, UM, ORDINANCE AS WELL. I, I GOT, UM, SO EXCITED AS WELL. AND THEN I FOUND OUT AND READ SOME OF THE THINGS THAT YOU GUYS HAVE IN THIS ONE IS, IS, IS CORRECTLY, UM, FOR THE SPEAKER BEFORE ME SAID, YOU'RE NOT READY FOR THIS BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE ANY INFORMATION FROM ALL THE, THE COMMUNITIES THAT LIVE IN THIS AREA OF HOUSTON THAT HAVE BEEN ANNEXED BY HOUSTON TO OTHER COUNTIES THAT HAVEN'T, DON'T, DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON. Y'ALL TOOK THE, THE DRAFT FROM THE, UM, LIVABLE CITIES, WHICH I THINK IS, YOU KNOW, ANOTHER ISSUE, UM, THAT WE GOT WITH, WITH THAT, UM, PARTICULAR, UM, COMMITTEE. ALL THESE DIFFERENT COMMITTEES YOU'RE BRINGING INTO OUR, OUR TO OUR CITIES. WHY AREN'T OUR PEOPLE BEING PART OF THESE COMMITTEES IN ORDER FOR US TO MAKE, MAKE THE CALL TO SAY WHAT WE WANT IN OUR OWN COMMUNITY AND DON'T BOX US UP WITH ANOTHER COMMITTEE AND ANOTHER ORDINANCE WITH PEOPLE THAT GOT D RESTRICTIONS THAT WE HAVE THAT WE FOLLOW. SO ARE, WE HAVE TO FOLLOW THE DE RESTRICTIONS UNDER WHAT YOU GUYS DO AS FAR AS THE ORDINANCE GOES? I DON'T WANT NONE OF THAT, IF THAT'S THE CASE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. OUR NEXT SPEAKER, AL, ALSO ATTENDING VIRTUALLY IS DANNY ASBURY L YES, I'M HERE. CAN YOU HEAR ME? YES, WE CAN. CAN YOU PLEASE RESTATE YOUR NAME FOR THE, FOR THE PUBLIC? YES, I AM DANNY ASBURY L UM, I'M SHOWING MY SUPPORT FOR THE ORDINANCE. SO EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT PERFECT, I BELIEVE THAT WE CAN MAKE IT PERFECT. UH, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I WANT DEVELOPERS JUST TO BE CAREFUL, UH, BECAUSE WHAT YOU DO DOES AFFECT THE LIFE OF ALL [01:10:01] RESIDENTS BECAUSE YOU AFFECTED, YOU INFECT, YOU AFFECT THE ENVIRONMENT, YOU KNOW, AND, AND YOU DIMINISH IT FOR US AT TIME. SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S, THAT CAME ACROSS ALSO. UM, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY KNOWS I COME FROM THE NORTH FOREST AREA AND THAT AREA HAS, UH, LOST ALL OF ITS CHARACTER. IT HAS LOST ITS MORALE, IT HAS LOST EVERYTHING. UH, AND I DON'T HAVE MY, MY HISTORY DISAPPEARED. I DON'T HAVE A HISTORY. SO I'M DOING WHAT IT TAKES TO MAKE SURE THAT THESE THINGS CAN BE, UH, REMEDIED, UH, BY ACTIONS SUCH AS THESE THAT WE ARE TAKING. SO EVEN THOUGH THIS IS NOT PERFECT, THIS IS NOT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS OBVIOUSLY THE ROUGH DRAFT. WE NEED TO JUST MAKE SURE THAT WE KNOW THAT WE CAN CHANGE THIS AT A LATER DATE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, SIR. THE NEXT SPEAKER WHO HAS SIGNED UP, I BELIEVE IN PERSON IS LUCAS FRANCIS. GOOD AFTERNOON. UH, MY NAME IS LUCAS FRANCIS. UH, I'M A RESIDENT OF, UH, CHERRY HEARST. AND, AND I GET TO, UH, SERVE THERE AS THE PRESIDENT OF THE PACIFIC ASSOCIATION. UM, I JUST RECENTLY, UH, HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO LEARN ABOUT THIS PLAN A DAY AGO OR SO. UH, IT'S NOTHING THAT HAS COME FORWARD IN OUR COMMUNITY, UM, AND BEEN CONVERSED ABOUT IN A MEANINGFUL WAY. UH, AT LEAST NONE THAT I KNOW OF. UH, AND I, I GUESS I WOULD STRESS, UM, THE IMPLICATIONS OF THAT. UH, WE, WE ACTUALLY, IN THE CHAIR HURST NEIGHBORHOOD COMMUNITY, WE HAD A POTENTIAL HISTORIC DESIGNATION THAT MOVED FORWARD, UM, AND THEN IT CREATED A GOOD DEGREE OF DISHARMONY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, YOU KNOW, I LIVE IN A CONFORMING HOUSE. UH, I LIVE IN AN OLD BUNGALOW. IT WAS ORIGINAL TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. I LOVE THE CHA CHARACTER AND THE COMMUNITY ITSELF, OF COURSE, BUT I DON'T WANNA SEE SOMETHING THAT CREATES, UH, THE TYPE OF DISHARMONY THAT WE WITNESSED, UH, DURING THE HISTORIC DESIGNATION PROCESS. SO I WOULD, UM, IF I WOULD, UH, JUST COUNSEL THAT WE MAKE SURE THAT THE COMMUNITIES UNDERSTAND THE IMPLICATIONS, UNDERSTAND, UH, THE THRESHOLDS, UM, AND HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE TO DIGEST EXACTLY WHAT IS BEING PUT FORWARD. UH, I, I CAN TELL YOU FROM MY OWN PERSONAL, UM, VANTAGE POINT, UH, IT, IT CREATED, IT CAN CREATE, UM, RIGHTLY OR NOT, UH, AN EXPECTATION THAT PEOPLE WERE TAKING THEIR PROPERTY RIGHTS. SO, UH, I WOULD THINK, UH, MAYBE SOME TIME TO, TO BRIDGE THAT CONVERSATION WITH THE COMMUNITIES IS A PROPERTY OF BENEFIT. THAT'S ALL. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, SIR. THE NEXT SPEAKER WHO I BELIEVE IS ATTENDING BY, UH, VIRTUALLY IS PASTOR JENKINS. HELLO TO EVERYONE. HELLO TO EVERYONE. I'M PASTOR NATHAN JENKINS. I PASTOR THE IN THE INDEPENDENCE HEIGHTS AREA. I PASTOR THE PROVIDENCE CHURCH. I'M A MEMBER OF THE INDEPENDENT HEIGHTS BAPTIST PASTORS AND MINISTERS ALLIANCE, UH, REVEREND NICHOLS NICHOLSON, WHOSE NAME WAS CALLED EARLY EARLIER, IS ALSO A MEMBER OF THAT ALLIANCE. AND I HAVE SPOKEN WITH OUR PRESIDENT, PASTOR BILLY R. WILLIAMS, AND WE ARE IN FAVOR, UH, OF THIS MOVING FORWARD, BUT WE ARE WANTED TO DO IT BECAUSE WE PASTOR THE PEOPLE WHO SIT IN THE SEATS ON SUNDAY MORNING WHO HAVE LIVED OUT THERE, UH, FROM THE, THE EXISTENCE OF THE INDEPENDENT HEIGHTS. AND SO THEY'RE ASKING THESE SAME QUESTIONS ABOUT ALL OF THE BUILDINGS THAT THEY'RE SEEING, AND THEY'RE NOT HAVING A VOICE IN THAT. SO WHEN THIS HAPPENED, IT WAS TIME FOR THEM TO SAY, HEY, MAYBE WE CAN GET A VOICE THIS TIME. MAYBE SOMEBODY WILL KEEP US INFORMED. AND SO, IN SHORT, I'M A PREACHER. SO IN SHORT, UH, I JUST WANTED IT TO BE ON RECORD THAT WE ARE HERE AND WE ARE IN FAVOR OF IT. THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TODAY. THANK YOU, SIR. OKAY. THE LAST SPEAKER I HAVE SIGNED UP, UM, IN WRITING IS LORI FLORES. IF YOU'LL PLEASE RESTATE YOUR NAME. YEAH, GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS LORI FLORES. AND, UM, I AM FROM THE BONITA GARDENS NEIGHBORHOOD, WHICH IS, UM, UH, THE NORTH, UH, 59 NORTH CLOSE TO LOOP SIX 10 NORTH. AND, UM, THE FIRST EXIT PAST THAT IS CROSS TIMBERS, AND YOU GO EAST, AND THAT'S MY NEIGHBORHOOD. IT'S A ONE OF THE OLD DISENFRANCHISED FORGOTTEN NEIGHBORHOODS THAT NOBODY, MANY PEOPLE DON'T KNOW OF ITS EXISTENCE. WE WERE ESTABLISHED IN 1936. [01:15:01] UM, PEOPLE FROM LIKE FIRST WARD AND SECOND WARD MOVED THERE, UH, WHEN THE PROPERTIES WENT FOR SALE FOR $75 FOR 12,000 SQUARE FOOT LOTS. AND THEY TALKED ABOUT MOVING TO EL RANCHO. AND SO TODAY WE STILL HAVE PEOPLE THAT BUILD STABLES AND HAVE HORSES. AND I, I'M VERY SUPPORTIVE OF THIS PLAN BECAUSE, UM, MANY OF THE, UH, UH, MY PARENTS MOVED THERE IN, YOU KNOW, WHEN, WHEN THEY, 19 36, 19 40 ACTUALLY. AND I BOUGHT MY GRANDMA'S HOUSE AND MY PARENTS BUILT THEIR HOME THERE TOO. SO I GREW UP IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. I MOVED BACK 25 YEARS AGO, AND I'VE BEEN WORKING ON TRYING TO IMPROVE, UM, OUR COMMUNITY EVER SINCE. UH, I GUESS WHAT I WANT, WHAT, WHAT I, WHAT I NEED TO SAY IS THAT, UM, THE OLDER PROPERTY OWNERS, UH, APPRECIATE THE, THE, THE, THE, THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND WE'RE MAKING IMPROVEMENTS TO OUR PROPERTIES, CHANGING THE FENCES. I LIKE WHAT YOU WAS SAID ABOUT THE FENCES, BECAUSE NEW PROPERTY OWNERS WHO JUST BUY IT AND THINK THAT IT'S JUST A RUNDOWN OVER OVERLOOKED NEIGHBORHOOD, BUY SCRAP METAL TO BUILD FENCES AND THEN COME DUMP THEIR TRASH IN THERE TO BURN. WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT. SO I'M VERY SUPPORTIVE OF THIS, OF THIS, THIS PLAN. UH, HOW DOES THE NEIGHBORHOOD BECOME DESIGNATED FOR THAT? OR WHO MAKES THAT DECISION? OR DO WE APPLY OR WHAT, WHAT HAPPENS? TIME FINISHED. UNDERSTAND THAT'S, UH, AND WE'LL, I'LL, I'LL ASK THE QUESTION OF STAFF WHEN WE IN THE PUBLIC COMMENT, SO, OKAY. THANK YOU. SO A FEW MORE PEOPLE HAVE SIGNED UP. SO THE NEXT PERSON IN ORDER IS CHARLENE JONES. GOOD AFTERNOON. CAN YOU HEAR ME? YES, MA'AM. OKAY. I'M CHARLENE JONES. I'M A PRECINCT CHAIR IN RIVERSIDE. PARENTS, UH, PRECINCT 1, 3 6. I'M AGAINST THIS ORDINANCE. I JUST FOUND OUT ABOUT THE MEETING THIS MORNING THROUGH A TEXT MESSAGE, AND I SENT MESSAGES OUT TO SOME OF MY NEIGHBORS THAT DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT EITHER. UM, AND SOME OF MY NEIGHBORS ARE ELDERLY, SO THEY DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS. SO HOW, HOW DO WE FIND OUT, HOW, HOW DO PEOPLE LIKE THAT GET A COPY OF THE DRAFT? YOU KNOW, IF YOU DON'T HAVE, YOU MAY EVEN HAVE A LAPTOP, LET, LET ALONE A, A REGULAR PHONE FLIP PHONES, YOU KNOW, BOTH SCHOOLS. SO HOW, HOW, HOW WOULD YOU, HOW WOULD WE FIND OUT ABOUT IT? 'CAUSE A LOT OF 'EM SAID THEY DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT, AND IF IT AFFECTS US, WE WANNA BE IN THE PROCESS FROM A TO Z, NOT AT THE END WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO VOTE ON IT, WHICH WE'RE AGAINST IT, UH, BECAUSE IT'S TOO VAGUE. SO WHAT, WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT THAT SO PEOPLE CAN KNOW ABOUT IT AND NOT FIND OUT ABOUT IT THE DAY OF, LIKE I DID THIS MORNING AND I'M, I GET ON THE LAPTOP AND I DO HAVE A REGULAR PHONE, BUT A LOT OF MY NEIGHBORS HAVE FLIP PHONES AND SOME DON'T EVEN HAVE COMPUTERS OR DON'T GET ON THE COMPUTER. SO HOW WOULD THEY, HOW WOULD THEY FIND OUT ABOUT THIS TO LOOK AT THIS, THIS DRAFT? DO YOU MAIL 'EM? WHAT, HOW, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE WAYS THAT YOU DISSEMINATED THE INFORMATION SO PEOPLE CAN KNOW ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN OUR COMMUNITY? THANK YOU. I, I THINK, UM, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A PUBLIC MEETING, LIKE ALL PUBLIC MEETINGS, WHICH IS HIGHLY REGULATED AND IS, UM, IS ANNOUNCED, UM, IN, IN VARIOUS FORMS AND POSTED, UM, UH, TO THE LAW. UM, AND WE CAN WE, UH, WHEN WE CLOSE PUBLIC COMMENT AGAIN, I CAN RAISE, I CAN ASK THIS QUESTION OF, OF STAFF AND WE CAN, WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT TO SEE IF THERE ARE OTHER WAYS THAT THIS INFORMATION IS DISSEMINATED. BUT, UH, THIS IS A PUBLIC MEETING, LIKE ALL OF OUR PUBLIC MEETINGS, UH, THROUGHOUT THE CITY AND ACROSS THE, THE STATE. UM, BUT I, I CAN GET MORE CLARITY FOR YOU, FOR YOU FOR THIS PARTICULAR MEETING, BUT, BUT THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS. CHAIRMAN, THIS IS COMMISSIONER SEPULVEDA. I MUST EXIT TO ATTEND AN HISD HEARING, SO I'M LEAVE, I'LL BE LEAVING THE MEETING NOW. OKAY. THANK YOU. YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE, UH, LEAVING IS DULY NOTED. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OKAY. PROCEEDING WITH THE PUBLIC HEARING. UH, THE NEXT SPEAKER IS ABNER LYONS STAR SIX BY PHONE OR UNMUTE YOUR MICROPHONE ICON IF YOU'RE ON THE COMPUTER, PLEASE. OKAY. CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW? YES, SIR, WE CAN. YES. GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYONE. MY NAME IS ABNER LYONS. I AM THE DISTRICT LIAISON FOR STATE REPRESENTATIVE HARVEY DUTTON JRS, UH, OFFICE [01:20:01] DISTRICT 1 42. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE A COMMENT, AND I'M HOPING THIS WOULD RESONATE ACROSS THIS, UH, THIS PODIUM. WE ARE DEFINITELY IN SUPPORT OF, UH, THE PRESERVATION. AND I'M JUST GONNA GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT JUST HAPPENED TO ME. UH, THIS PAST WEEK I WAS CRAVING A G**O, AND SO I WENT OVER TO FIVE 18, UM, WAS IT FIVE 18 WEST 11TH STREET, WHERE MY MOM GREW UP YEARS AGO. AND AS I WENT INTO THE BUILDING, I ALWAYS GO AND CLEAN MY HANDS BEFORE I GO TO EAT. AND I WAS REFUSED SERVICE. I WAS ASKED TO LEAVE EVEN AFTER I TOLD THEM I WANTED TO WASH MY HANDS BEFORE I, I ORDERED SOME FOOD. THEY DID NOT WANT ME IN THE BUILDING. AND I, I'M HOPING THIS WOULD RESONATE TO YOU ALL BECAUSE Y'ALL, Y'ALL SKIPPING AROUND AND YOU'RE JUMPING AROUND AND NOBODY WANT TO ADMIT HOW THE COMMUNITIES ARE BEING EITHER WASHED OUT AND LEFT OUT. AND, AND, AND THERE'S, AND THERE'S THIS, IT'S ALMOST SAYING THAT IN ORDER FOR SOMETHING TO IMPROVE, THAT HAS TO HAPPEN IN THE CITY OF HOUSTON. AND I SEE THAT ALL OVER THE CITY OF HOUSTON, THAT IF IT'S NOT A MAJORITY, THEN WHAT NOT GONNA COME AND, AND HELP AND WORK WITH EVERYBODY IN THE COMMUNITY. SO I'M JUST SUPPORTIVE OF THIS, THAT EVEN IF IT COULD HOLD OR SAVE A PORTION OF THAT COMMUNITY'S HIS HISTORICAL PRESERVATION, AT LEAST THAT WOULD BE A WIN-WIN FOR INDEPENDENT HEIGHTS, BECAUSE I'VE SEEN SO MANY THAT DON'T HAVE A VOICE. SO AGAIN, UH, RACISM STILL EXISTS. IT'S STILL REAL AND RELEVANT. AND IN MY OWN BACKYARD WHERE MY MOM GREW UP, I WAS REFUSED SERVICE THIS PAST, THIS PAST SATURDAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, SIR. THE NEXT SPEAKER VIRTUALLY IS MARK WILLIAMSON. THANK YOU. UH, MY NAME IS MARK WILLIAMSON. I'M THE CURRENT PRESIDENT OF THE GREATER HEIGHTS SUBARU NEIGHBORHOOD COUNCIL, AND I'VE BEEN AFFILIATED WITH SEVERAL OTHER ORGANIZATIONS IN THE GENERAL NEIGHBORHOOD. WE'VE BEEN LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE SEVERAL, UH, HISTORIC DISTRICTS, BUT WE HAVE ALSO HAVE A LOT OF UNDERSERVED AREAS IN OUR AREA THAT DO NOT QUALIFY FOR HISTORIC DISTRICTS. AND WE HAVE CRACKS AND, UH, CREVICES BETWEEN OUR HISTORIC DISTRICTS, WHICH SHOULD BENEFIT FROM CONSERVATION DISTRICTS. BUT THERE ARE SOME REAL PROBLEMS WITH THE ORDINANCE AS, UH, AS PROPOSED. I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS SECOND DRAFT. SEVERAL OF THE PARTICULAR, UH, ITEMS ROMAN ALREADY COVERED. I'M PARTICULARLY INTERESTED IN SOME CLARIFICATION ON HOW THE 51% IS ARRIVED AT. THAT'S PRETTY VAGUE, WHETHER IT'S 51% OF TRACKS, 51% OF OWNERSHIP OF 51% OF OWNER NAMES, 51% OF OWNERS RETURN, 51% OF ACREAGE. AND I'M ALSO CONCERNED ABOUT THE INTERACTION WITH OTHER, UH, OTHER ORDINANCES. I REALLY AM SICK OF ORDINANCES SAYING THAT THEY OVERRIDE EVERY OTHER ORDINANCE, WHICH BASICALLY MEANS THAT TO INTERPRET ANY ORDINANCE IN THE CITY, YOU HAVE TO GO INVESTIGATE EVERY ORDINANCE THAT WAS WRITTEN AFTER IT TO SEE IF ANY OTHER ORDINANCE SUPERSEDED IT. UH, THAT'S HAS CAUSED SOME REAL PROBLEMS WITH OTHER ORDINANCES. SO I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING WHAT THAT NEXT DRAFT COMES OUT MONDAY. AND, UH, THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK. THANK YOU, SIR. MR. CHAIR, THERE ARE TWO OTHERS THAT WE BELIEVE WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK. THOMAS BRENTS FOLLOWED THEN BY REVEREND JEROME NICKERSON. OKAY, MR. BRENTS, UM, THIS IS VIRTUALLY, YEAH. UH, GOOD AFTERNOON. THANK YOU FOR, UH, ALLOWING ME TO SPEAK. UH, I'M, UH, PRESIDENT OF, UH, GARDEN VILLA'S, UH, COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION. AND, UM, I'M VERY MUCH IN FAVOR OF PRESERVATION. UH, WE NEED SOME HELP, UH, WITH, WITH PRESERVATION, UH, PRESERVING THE, THE QUALITY OF LIFE THAT WE HAVE IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, WE WERE, WE WERE FOUNDED, UH, 96 YEARS AGO AS A SEPARATE, UH, COMMUNITY, AND WE WERE ANNEXED BY THE CITY IN 1953. AND, UM, I'M REAL CONCERNED ABOUT THIS ORDINANCE, UH, BECAUSE WE HAVE HAD, UH, ISSUES WITH, UH, WITH DEED RESTRICTIONS NOT BEING ENFORCED. WE'VE, UH, WE, WE'VE BEEN ON TOP OF, OF KEEPING UP WITH OUR DEED RESTRICTIONS AND, UH, WE'VE, UH, WE'VE, WE'VE GONE TO, [01:25:01] UH, YARD PARKING PAST THAT AS WELL. UH, WE'VE, WE'VE DONE, UH, CHAPTER 42, UH, MINIMUM LOT SIZE, UH, BUT WE DON'T HAVE PEOPLE ON THIS WITH THE CITY THAT ACTUALLY ENFORCE, UH, THE CURRENT, UH, ORDINANCES. UH, WE ARE, WE ARE UNDER, UH, TIER TWO OF THE, UH, HOBBY AIRPORT, UH, UH, LAND USE ORDINANCE. AND, UH, WE JUST CAN'T GET PEOPLE TO ENFORCE WHAT'S ALREADY ON THE BOOKS. AND I'M REAL CONCERNED WITH THE HOW VAGUE THIS, UH, THIS PROPOSAL IS AND, UH, AND, AND ABOUT THE ENFORCEMENT. AND SO I, I'D REALLY LIKE TO SEE SOME TIGHTENING UP OF, OF, UH, OF HOW THIS IS GONNA BE ENFORCED AND MORE, UM, MORE INFORMATION AND, UH, MORE IN INFORMATION PUT INTO THE ORDINANCE, UH, THAT HAS THE, UH, THE TEETH IN IT SO THEY CAN BE ENFORCED, UH, WITH, FROM THE CITY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, SIR. THE NEXT SPEAKER MAY BE REVEREND JEROME NICKERSON TO BE FOLLOWED BY SOMEONE NAMED LUCKY. MR. CHAIRMAN, GOOD EVENING TO ONE AND ALL. I APOLOGIZE FOR MY LATENESS. I WAS IN CLASS AND IT RAN A LITTLE LONGER THAN I HAD ANTICIPATED, BUT I AM IN FAVOR OF THE PRESERVATION DESIGNATION. AND NUMBER ONE, WHAT'S GOING ON CURRENTLY, I'M SORRY, IN THE INDEPENDENCE HEIGHTS AREA, UH, I'M ALSO THE VICE PRESIDENT OF THE, UH, GREATER HOUSTON BAPTIST PASTORS AND MINISTERS ALLIANCE. UH, I SERVE THIS COMMUNITY, NOT BY HAPPENSTANCE, BUT AS ONE WHO GREW UP IN IT. AND SO I HAVE HISTORY, OBSERVATION, AND INFORMATION THAT I BELIEVE THIS PARTICULAR ENTITY WOULD BE INTERESTED IN. FIRST OF ALL, WE ARE AWARD ONE TIME, THE FIRST, UH, INCORPORATED CITY IN THE STATE OF TEXAS. MUCH OF THE LANDSCAPE OF OUR COMMUNITY IS GIVING WAY TO WHAT I CALL CALLOUS INTEREST. THE CURRENT HOMES THAT ARE GOING UP ARE LIKE TWO INCHES APART. I MAY BE EXAGGERATING. THE CURRENT HOMES THAT'S GOING UP ARE STRAIGHT UP AND DOWN, SO THAT, THAT KNOCKS OUT PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES THAT KNOCKS OUT PEOPLE, UH, WHO DON'T REALLY WANT TO CLIMB STAIRS. AND TO ME, THAT IS CHANGING THE IDENTITY OF THE COMMUNITY, AND IT'S ALSO MAKING IT EXCLUSIVELY AVAILABLE TO YOUNGER PEOPLE. AND SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS, UH, ORDINANCE GOING TO AFFECT, TO HOPEFULLY CHANGE THE, UH, WAY, UH, HOMES ARE BEING BUILT BECAUSE THERE ARE NO ONE STORY HOMES THAT ARE GOING UP RIGHT NOW. EVERYTHING IS, I BELIEVE, TWO STORY, IF NOT THREE. THEY, THEY, THEY'RE CLOSE TOGETHER, THEY'RE BUILT COMPACTLY. AND I DON'T SEE THESE AS BEING A LONG TERM ANSWER TO THE HOUSING PROBLEM BECAUSE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE MOVING IN WILL ULTIMATELY MOVE OUT. SO WHAT HAS, WHAT HAS BEEN, UH, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT'S GONNA BE DONE WITH THAT? DO WE HAVE A COMMUNITY THAT ULTIMATELY WILL BE DESTROYED? IS IS LITERALLY BEING DESTROYED NOW FOR GENTRIFICATION. AND I THINK IT'S A SAD FOR THIS CITY TO IGNORE THE HISTORICITY OF ITS ENTIRE EXISTENCE. THANK YOU FOR LISTENING, SIR. TIME. THANK YOU, SIR. SIR. UM, SO ANOTHER SPEAKER SIGNED UP. THERE IS A SPEAKER NAMED LUCKY AND ANOTHER SPEAKER NAMED MARTY PAGE TO FOLLOW. LUCKY. OKAY, IF LUCKY IS HERE, COULD YOU PLEASE ANNOUNCE YOUR FULL NAME FOR THE, FOR THE PUBLIC? HELLO, MY NAME IS DAMON LUCKETT. I AM REPRESENTING, UH, INDEPENDENT INDEPENDENCE HEIGHTS, THE FIRST ESTABLISHED AFRICAN AMERICAN CITY IN THE STATE OF TEXAS. UH, MY FAMILY'S BEEN ON THE TAX ROLL SINCE IN INDEPENDENT HEIGHTS, WAS ANNEXED FOR TAX PURPOSES. UM, CURRENTLY WE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY RECOGNIZED BY THE CITY OR THE STATE. UM, WE CAN'T CONTINUE TO COMPETE WITH THE STATE WHEN THEY DON'T APPLY GLOBAL FUNDS. UM, WE CANNOT COMPETE AGAINST, UH, FOREIGN INVESTORS [01:30:01] WHEN THEY COME IN OUR COMMUNITY AND CHANGE OUR COMMUNITY. UH, SO THE ONLY THING THAT I'M ASKING THAT YOU, UH, DO TODAY IS PROTECT AND PUT YOUR NAME ON THE, ADD YOUR NAME TO THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY AND PROTECT INDEPENDENT HEIGHTS AND OWN THE HISTORY DURING BLACK HISTORY MARCH. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, SIR. THE NEXT SPEAKER IS MARTY PAGE. GOOD AFTERNOON. UH, CAN YOU HEAR ME? YES. YES, MA'AM. OKAY. UH, MY NAME IS MARTY PAGE, MARTY HAWKINS, PAGE AT THAT I'M A 65 YEAR PLUS RESIDENT AND PROPERTY OWNER OF INDEPENDENT HEIGHTS. I ALSO HOLD THE OFFICE OF PRESIDENT OF SUPER NEIGHBORHOOD AND INDEPENDENT HEIGHTS AS THE SPEAKERS BEFORE ME HAVE ALREADY STRESSED THE FACT THAT INDEPENDENT HEIGHTS IS IN FAVOR AND SUPPORT THE DISTRICT ORDINANCE. UM, BECAUSE IT'S AN ADVANTAGE THAT CAN BE USED NOT ONLY IN INDEPENDENT HEIGHTS, BUT IN OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS TO PRESERVE THE, AND THE HERITAGE OF THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS. I ALSO IMPLO APPLAUD YOU GUYS FOR, UM, HAVE IT NEIGHBORHOOD DRIVEN. THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS IN OUR BLACK NEIGHBORHOODS AND COMMUNITIES AND UNDERSERVED NEIGHBORHOODS. AS YOU'VE HEARD SPEAKERS SAY BEFORE ME, THAT WERE DONE WITHOUT OUR CONSENT, AT LEAST WITH THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT, WE WILL HAVE A VOICE ON WHAT HAPPENED, ON WHAT'S HAPPENING. UM, OUR BLACK COMMUNITIES, AS OTHER SPEAKERS HAVE SAID, ARE, ARE RAPIDLY DISAPPEARING. AND, UM, I IMPLORE YOU TO PASS THIS ORDINANCE SO THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD CAN HAVE A SAY IN WHAT'S HAPPENING WITHIN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME THIS AFTERNOON. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. WE DID NOT SEE UNDER ANY OTHER SPEAKERS BY CHAT. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO ASK IF THERE'S ANYONE WHO IS LISTENING OR IN THE AUDIENCE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK THAT WE'RE NOT AWARE OF YOU, IF YOU'D LIKE TO CALL THEM NOW, THAT MAY BE APPRECIATED. UNDERSTOOD. SO, THANK YOU. UH, SO IF THERE ARE ANY OTHER SPEAKERS, UH, THEY'RE IN THE ROOM, UM, PRESENT OR ATTENDING VIRTUALLY THAT YOU'VE NOT SIGNED UP, UM, WOULD ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO SPEAK? AND IF SO, WOULD YOU PLEASE, UH, STATE YOUR NAME FIRST? OKAY. NOT HEARING IT. I'M GOING TO CLOSE PUBLIC HEARING AT THIS TIME AND ASK ROMAN TO COME BACK. HELLO? I'M, I'M SORRY. I, I'M GONNA, YES, I'M SORRY. I WAS TRYING TO MANIPULATE THE PHONE. UH, BUTTONS. NOT A PROBLEM. I'M GONNA OPEN, OPEN PUBLIC HEARING BACKUP. MY NAME, VERONICA PENA. COULD YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME? YES. VERONICA PENA. I LIVE IN CITY OF HOUSTON AND FOR FORT BEND COUNTY, BUT I AM STILL, YOU KNOW, I VOTE, I ELECT, YOU KNOW, I PAY TAX. YOU KNOW, WE, WE HAVE, UH, MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL AND REPRESENTATION. I AM AN ENVIRONMENTAL ACTIVIST AND SEMI-RETIRED ENGINEER FOR, FOR MY CAREER. I AM NOW CURRENTLY VERY INVOLVED IN ENVIRONMENTAL ADVOCACY AND ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION. MY CONCERN HERE IS THAT IT IS, UH, WE, THIS, THIS ORDINANCE AS WRITTEN IS NOT READY. I'M GLAD WE HAVE TIME AND ANOTHER MEETING WILL BE HELD. I WANT TO BE POSITIVE AT THIS POINT, BUT I, MY, MY ASK AS AN ENVIRONMENTALIST IS WHEN I HEAR THE WORD CONSERVATION, I BELIEVE THAT IT'S NOT JUST, UH, WE NEED TO INCLUDE INTERSECTIONAL, UM, YOU KNOW, REPRESENTATION OF THAT WORD. CONSERVATION IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME AS AN ENVIRONMENTALIST. SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE HOW THIS ORDINANCE IS PREPARED TO REPRESENT THE ENVIRONMENTAL, UH, COMMUNITY ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY, AND, UH, AND WHO MAY BE INVOLVED AT THAT LEVEL. UM, I WILL LEAVE IT AT THAT AND MAKE IT SHORT. I LOOK FORWARD TO THE NEXT MEETING. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. I WANNA MAKE ANOTHER CALL. IF ANY ANYONE ELSE, UH, ATTENDING THIS MEETING THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS SUBJECT, PLEASE ANNOUNCE YOURSELF. OKAY. NOT HEARING. I'M GONNA GO AHEAD AND CLOSE, UH, THE, THE PUBLIC COMMENT AND ROMAN ASK YOU TO COME BACK UP. I KNOW, UM, THAT SOME OF OUR COMMISSIONERS HAVE MORE QUESTIONS. UM, AND PERHAPS YOU COULD ADDRESS SOME OF THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE HEARD. UM, [01:35:04] THANK YOU, CHAIR. I CAN, I MAY CAN DO THAT. I CAN ADDRESS SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WERE BROUGHT UP TODAY. UM, LET ME JUST START WITH ONE THAT CAME UP A NUMBER OF TIMES, 51% OF, OF 51%. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? IT'S 51% OF AFFIRMATIVE VOTES OF TRACK OWNERS PER THE HARRIS COUNTY APPRAISAL DISTRICT. SO IF YOU, IF YOU'RE A PERSON WHO OWNS A HOUSE OR A BUILDING OR AN EMPTY LOT, AND YOU GO ON HCA AND YOU SEE YOUR BILL, THAT PIECE OF LAND DESCRIBED THERE IS YOUR VOTE. AND, AND IN A PROPOSED AREA, WE WOULD PUT OUT A BALLOT OR WE OFFER A BALLOT AND PEOPLE VOTE, AND IT'S 51% OF THE AFFIRMATIVE VOTE. SO IF SOMEONE DOES NOT CAST A BALLOT, THAT IS A NO VOTE. SO IT IS NOT STILL EASY. IT, THAT PART OF IT'S CLEAR, IT HAS TO BE 51% OF PEOPLE WHO PUT IN THE BALLOT. I HOPE THAT HELPS ON THAT QUESTION. SOMEONE RAISED A, I JUST HEARD YOU SAY TWO THINGS. OKAY. SORRY. PLEASE. IS IT 51% OF THE TRACK OWNERS OR 51 OF THE PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE WHO TURN IN A BALLOT. OH, I SEE. BECAUSE LET ME, LET ME, UH, IF 51% OF THE PEOPLE WHO TURN IN A BALLOT, BUT SOMEONE ELSE, I'M, THE REASON I MENTIONED TRACKED IS THE QUESTION WAS RAISED, UH, HOW IS THE LAND DIVIDED? SO, YOU KNOW, WHAT WAS, SOMEHOW THERE WAS A QUESTION. I WANTED TO BE CLEAR THAT THAT'S HOW YOUR VOTE IS. SO IF YOU OWN MULTIPLE TRACKS, NOW THE CITY ORDINANCE HAS ALREADY, THE CITY OF HOUSTON HAS AN, UH, IN ITS EXISTENCE IN THE ORDINANCE THAT IF YOUR TRACKS ARE, UM, CONTIGUOUS, UH, LET'S SAY ON A BLOCK FACE, YOU OWN THREE SIDE BY SIDE, THAT'S ACTUALLY ONE VOTE BY CITY ORDINANCE ALREADY. AND, AND THAT, AND THAT'S A GOOD THING, UH, WE THINK IN TERMS OF ADOPTION OF THIS ORDINANCE FOR INDIVIDUALS WHO MIGHT'VE GONE IN AND SWOOPED UP A BUNCH OF LAND AND THINK THEY'RE GONNA HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF VOTES. UM, SO THAT, THAT'S WHERE THAT COMES FROM, IS A TRACT OWNER WHO DOESN'T VOTE, COUNT IT AS A NO. YES. AND, AND THEN FOR ME, THERE'S JUST A LACK OF CLEAR, CONCISE LANGUAGE TO ADDRESS THE 51%. AND ASSUMING THAT'S ALL HAPPENING IN THE REWRITE. AND WHEN DOES THE REWRITE HIT THE STREETS? WELL, THAT PART OF IT SHOULD BE CLEAR IN THE ORDINANCE. I DON'T THINK WE'VE HAD, UH, A QUESTION RAISED ON THAT, BUT I'LL LET LEGAL, UH, I MEAN, I'LL ASK THAT LEGAL PLEASE. KIM. I ANSWER A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS THAT WERE RAISED AT THE ORDINANCE OR AT THE, AT WITH PUBLIC COMMENT AND, AND BY COMMISSION, BOTH AT BOTH OF THESE PUBLIC HEARINGS. UM, YOU KNOW, DRAFTING AN ORDINANCE IS AN ITERATIVE PROJECT PROCESS. WE GET COMMENTS, WE GO BACK AND LOOK AT IT. WE GET COMMENTS, WE GO BACK AND LOOK AT IT. WE GET COMMENTS AND SO ON. AND THIS HAS BEEN OUT IN THE PUBLIC EYE AT MEETINGS. YOU HEARD SOME OF THE LPAC MEMBERS, UM, YOU KNOW, ACKNOWLEDGE SOME OF THEIR, THEIR CONVERSATIONS AND INPUT INTO IT. UM, SO IT'S A DRAFT. IT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO HEAR. I I DON'T EVER THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WE, WE DON'T BENEFIT FROM COMMENTS AND, AND MAKING THESE CHANGES. SO, UM, THOSE CHANGES CAN BE, CAN BE GOING FORWARD. I THINK WHAT WE COMMITTED TO WITH STAFF IS TO HAVE ANOTHER DRAFT BACK TO THEM TOMORROW WITH CHANGES FROM BOTH THE FIRST ITERATION AND WHAT WE'RE HEARING TODAY FROM THE PUBLIC AND FROM COMMISSIONERS. AND THAT IT WOULD BE POSTED NO LATER THAN MONDAY. AND I DON'T KNOW IF, IF ROMAN HAS A SPECIFIC TIME ON MONDAY, BUT WE, I WOULD GET IT ALL OUT OF MY OFFICE. UM, SO IT WOULD BE READY AND AVAILABLE AT THAT POINT IN TIME. UM, THE OTHER COMMENT REAL QUICK I'D LIKE TO ADDRESS IS, AND REMIND ME IF I DON'T GET BACK TO YOUR PRECISE QUESTION, COMMISSIONER MCNEIL. UM, BUT YOU KNOW, THE OTHER THING I'D LIKE TO, TO UM, REMIND PEOPLE IS THAT THIS IS AN ENABLING ORDINANCE. IT'S NOT DESIGNED AT THIS MOMENT TO APPLY TO ANYBODY. UM, THERE HAS TO BE THAT PROCESS OF NEIGHBORHOOD DISCUSSION WITH STAFF, WITH WHAT THEY WANNA LOOK AT, WHAT FITS, WHAT DOESN'T, AND SO FORTH. UM, OF COURSE WE HAVE TO FOLLOW STATE LAW AND FEDERAL LAWS IN, AND NOT IN A ZONING SENSE, BUT CERTAINLY TAKING CONCERNS FROM A PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNER TO PROFESSOR FESTA, UM, COMMENTS. SO, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THOSE HAVE BEEN AND ARE CONTINUING TO BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT. UM, I DON'T KNOW, DID I GET TO YOUR QUESTION? I JUST ECHO WHAT I'VE HEARD FROM SO MANY SPEAKERS THAT 51% SEEMS PARTICULARLY VAGUE. 'CAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S 51% OF THE PEOPLE WHO VOTE, OR 51% OF THE TRACT OWNERS OR [01:40:01] 51, BUT, BUT YOU COULD GO INTO A NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE THERE'S A HUNDRED TRACKS, BUT ONE GUY OWNS 10 TRACKS. DOES HE NOT GET 10 VOTES? OR IT GETS ONE VOTE? HE JUST GETS ONE VOTE. AND SO THE LANGUAGE IN THE DRAFT DOESN'T ADDRESS ANY OF THESE THINGS. AND SO I DON'T KNOW IF IT HEARKENS BACK TO SOME STATE LAW THAT I'M UNAWARE OF OR IF THE NEXT DRAFT IS GONNA CLARIFY. IT'S ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS, THESE FIXED, AND WE CAN CLARIFY THAT I THINK IN THE NEXT DRAFT. UH, I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO ADD THAT THE, THE ONE VOTE IS ONLY CONTINGENT OF ALL THE LOTS THE PERSON BOUGHT IS CONTIGUOUS. IF HE BOUGHT IT ALL DISPERSE, THEN HE GETS HOW MANY VOTES, UH, HOW MANY LOTS HE BOUGHT. AND THAT'S CORRECT. AND THEN THE OTHER THING THAT I WANTED TO FIND OUT IS, IS THIS A CONS, THE, THE CONSERV CONSERV DISTRICT, IF IT WAS PUT INTO A VOTE, IS THIS A ONE-TIME VOTE? UP AND DOWN? IF THE VOTE WAS NOT 40, IF THE VOTE DID NOT ARRIVE TO 51%, ARE WE GOING TO REDRAW THE BOUNDARIES OF THIS DISTRICT JUST TO MAKE THAT 51%? THIS HAS HAPPENED IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS. AND, AND IF I CAN ANSWER THAT, MR. CHAIR, WE WE DO PLEASE, KIM HAVE SIGNIFICANT DISCUSSIONS ON THAT. UM, AND I THINK ONE OF THE CONCERNS THAT HAS BEEN RAISED IN WITH HISTORIC DISTRICTS IS THAT WE DIDN'T LET PEOPLE KNOW WHEN WE WERE RE REDRAWING THE BOUNDARIES. AND THAT HAS BEEN CORRECTED IN THIS ORDINANCE, SO THAT IF BALLOTS DON'T MEET IT, AND, BUT WE THINK WE CAN STILL DO, SAY THERE'S A PROPOSED DISTRICT OF 10 BLOCKS, WE THINK MAYBE THREE WILL WORK AND WE RE AND THE BOUNDARIES ARE REDRAWN BY STAFF, THEN YES, NOTICE IS RESENT OUT AND YOU'RE ADVISED THAT YOU ARE IN OR OUT. AND HOW THAT CHA, HOW THAT HAS CHANGED SO THERE IS MORE NOTICE NOTIFICATION GIVEN. GOOD. SO I, I WOULD, UM, PERMISSION TO SPEAK. I WOULD LIKE TO ADD TO, UM, FIRST OF ALL, I WANT TO THANK ALL THE PEOPLE WHO GOT ON, UM, FROM INDEPENDENCE HEIGHTS. UM, AND I PERSONALLY WORKED ON THE STARK WEATHER HISTORIC DISTRICT. THAT WAS A LOT OF HARD WORK. AND SO I HEAR QUESTIONS ABOUT 51% VERSUS 67% WHO GETS THE RIGHT TO HAVE VOTES AND WHO DOESN'T? THAT'S 21 HOMES. AND IT TOOK US 30 DAYS JUST TO GET THOSE VOTES. THAT WAS A LOT OF WORK. WE HAD TO GO TO DALLAS, HAD TO GO TO PEARLAND, HAD TO GO TO A LOT OF PLACES. SO THE CUMBERSOMENESS OF GETTING THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DOESN'T WORK FOR US. IT ALSO DOESN'T WORK FOR COMMUNITIES LIKE INDEPENDENCE HEIGHTS BECAUSE THE PROPERTIES HAVE TO BE CONTRIBUTING AND THEY HAVE TO BE CONTIGUOUS. AND SO WHAT YOU SEE NOW IS YOU SEE THINGS BEING TORN DOWN. YOU SEE THE WINTER STORM URI THAT CAME IN, PEOPLE'S PIPE BUSTED. THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE FUNDING, THE MONEY, AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANY OF THE RESOURCES TO BE ABLE TO REPAIR THEIR HOMES LIKE SOME MORE AFFLUENT NEIGHBORHOODS DO. THE OTHER THING THAT I'D LIKE TO POINT OUT IS I HEAR, UH, CONVERSATIONS ABOUT, WE JUST FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS, UH, THIS DIDN'T HAPPEN. I HAD NO, UH, UH, KNOWLEDGE OF ARTS DISTRICTS, WALKABLE DISTRICTS, BIKE DISTRICTS, CATHEDRAL DISTRICTS. WE, NONE OF US GOT ANY OF THAT. BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE DON'T WANNA BLOCK SOMETHING THAT MIGHT HELP SOME COMMUNITIES BE ABLE TO CHOOSE AS A TOOL TO USE TO PROTECT THEIR COMMUNITIES. AND SO THEREFORE, THE PEOPLE WHO ARE CALLING IN, UH, FROM PLEASANTVILLE, FROM CITY GAS, FROM ALL THESE COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE BEEN IMPACTED BY THIS, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING WE TAKE LIGHTLY. THE LIVABLE, NONE OF NONE OF THE OTHER ORDINANCE THAT I'VE SEEN HAD TO GO THROUGH A LIVABLE PLACES COMMITTEE. I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT. AND SO WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN HERE IS THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT IT. WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT IT, WE ANSWER THE QUESTIONS THAT THE PUBLIC HAVE. WE ALSO NEED TO RECOGNIZE, I HEARD SOMEONE TALK ABOUT RACISM AND STRUCTURAL AND EQUITABLE THINGS THAT ARE, UH, DRIVING AND WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE. WE FACED THAT IN THE COMMUNITY. WE ALSO WENT AND GOT A FEDERAL DESIGNATION FOR OUR COMMUNITY. DO YOU, YOU KNOW, HOW LONG THAT TOOK? AND THOSE PEOPLE WERE 80 WHEN THEY DID THAT. IT TOOK TWO YEARS TO GET THAT. AND YOU FAST FORWARD TO TODAY AND ALL OUR COMMUNITY IS GONE. AND SO IF THERE'S A TOOL THAT CAN BE AN OPTION FOR A COMMUNITY WHO WANTS TO USE IT, THEN THIS TOOL SHOULD BE AVAILABLE TO COMMUNITIES WHO WANT TO DO THAT. AND AS YOU HEARD, THE PEOPLE FROM INDEPENDENCE HEIGHTS, CITY GAS, PLEASANTVILLE NORTH FOREST AND OTHER COMMUNITIES TODAY, THEY WANT THIS TOOL TO BE AVAILABLE. AND I, I DEFINITELY WANT TO MAKE SURE I GO ON RECORD SAYING THAT. AND SO I THANK ALL OF THOSE WHO SPOKE TODAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. SO COMMISSION MEMBERS, ARE THERE OTHER QUESTIONS FOR ROMAN? UH, COMMISSIONER MCNEIL? PARDON MY IGNORANCE, ROMAN, BUT I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED, ESPECIALLY IN INDEPENDENCE. HEIGHT HEIGHTS. OBVIOUSLY IT'S RADICALLY CHANGING BY THE MINUTE WITH THE NUMBER OF DEMOLITIONS AND NEW THREE STORY TOWNHOUSES BEING BUILT. IF, IF A GROUP OF 20, UM, HOMEOWNERS GOT TOGETHER AND CREATED [01:45:01] A CONSERVATION DISTRICT WITH THOSE 20 HOUSES AND THEY WERE ALL ONE STORY HOUSES, COULD THEY THEN PUT IN A CONSERVATION DISTRICT THAT KEPT ALL THOSE HOUSES AS ONE STORY HOUSES? AND IS THAT IN PERPE, PERPETUUM? HOW, WHAT'S THE WORD I'M LOOKING FOR? PERPETUITY. THE ANSWER I BELIEVE WOULD BE YES, THEY COULD, THAT COULD, THEY COULD REQUEST THOSE. UH, I, I THINK SPECIFICALLY, I MEAN, YES IS THE ANSWER, I THINK, BUT THE, I THINK THE IDEA IS ONE OF THE ELEMENTS IS BULK AND SCALE OF NEW CONSTRUCTION AS ROMAN HAD UP IN HIS MENU OF STANDARDS THAT'S PROPOSED, RIGHT? SO I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT STORAGE, WE'VE EMPHASIZED IT ENOUGH, BUT, AND IN FACT THE, THE, THE LANGUAGE IS CLEAR ON THAT. AND IT, THE CURRENT DRAFT UP WASN'T ACTUALLY STRONG ENOUGH FOR US INTERNALLY. AND WE'VE LOOKED AT THAT AND WE'VE ACTUALLY EVEN BEEFED THAT STATEMENT UP. THE LIST OF ATTRIBUTES FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION OR ALTERATIONS SOUGHT TO BE REGULATED IN THE PROPOSED CONSERVATION DISTRICT. THERE'LL BE A LIST SOUGHT TO BE REGULATED BY THE, THE CONSTITUENTS THERE. SO THAT'S WHERE IT, IT ORIGINATES FROM. ACTUALLY, IT'S A LITTLE STRONGER THAN THAT. I'M READING FROM THE CURRENT ONE. UH, LEMME GIVE IT TO YOU AGAIN. SORRY, COMMISSIONER. I WANNA BE CLEAR WHERE WE ARE WITH THAT. A LIST OF ATTRIBUTES FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION OR EXTERIOR ALTERATIONS ON EXISTING STRUCTURES THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD WANTS TO BE REGULATED. THAT'S WHAT THE LANGUAGE AND, AND A CONSERVATION HAS TO BE. A, A CD HAS TO BE CONTIGUOUS. YES. AND I, SO IF I COULD COME BACK, I WAS ANSWERING, I KIND OF SHORT TRACK THERE JUST A MINUTE. I, I WANNA REITERATE WHAT, UM, LEGAL HAS SAID. THIS IS AN ENABLING ORDINANCE. I WANT TO THE PEOPLE LISTENING WHO WERE, WHO HAVE VOICED SOME CONCERN ABOUT IT IN RIVERSIDE OR, OR ANY OTHER NEIGHBORHOOD, THIS SIMPLY WOULD ALLOW PEOPLE WHO WANT A NEIGHBORHOOD RECOGNIZED AND ELEMENTS PRESERVED AND CHARACTER PRESERVED IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD TO HAVE THIS TOOL. IF YOU DIDN'T HEAR ABOUT IT, IT'S JUST AS COMMISSIONER DUBOSE HAS STATED, YOU'D ALSO DIDN'T HEAR ABOUT ANY OF THOSE OTHER TOOLS THAT EXIST AT THE CITY WHEN THE ORDINANCE WAS CREATED. THIS IS AN ENABLING ORDINANCE ONLY. SO IT'S NOT GOING TO IMPACT YOU UNLESS YOUR NEIGHBORS WANT TO RECOGNIZE, PRESERVE THE CHARACTER OF THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD. AND THAT'S WHY THAT HAD COME UP. THE OTHER THING, COUPLE THINGS. THIS COULD BE A POLICY TOOL. IT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE AND COMMISSIONER YAP, I REALLY, UH, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS BE A TOOL THAT CAN HELP PEOPLE TO TAKE CARE OF HOMES. THEY'RE STRUGGLING TO SURVIVE IN THESE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE BEING, YOU KNOW, REDEVELOPED SO QUICKLY AND THEY'RE CAUSING, OF COURSE, THE TAXES TO GO UP AND, AND ALL THESE OTHER THINGS. WE DO HAVE THE FINANCIALS, FRIEDMANS TOWN, HISTORIC PRESERVATION, FINANCIAL INCENTIVE PLAN THAT WAS RECENTLY COMPLETED. WE HAVEN'T BROUGHT IT TO YOU, BUT IT IS A COMPLETED DOCUMENT AND IT HAS A LONG LIST OF TOOLS THAT THE CITY COULD CONSIDER TO HELP TO PRESERVE, UH, PARTS OF THE CITY THAT, THAT DOCUMENT AND, AND COULD BE USED IN COOPERATION WITH THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT ORDINANCE. SO, UM, UH, THAT MIGHT ALLOW FOR SOME OTHER INCENTIVE TO OCCUR. I, I RECOGNIZE, I DON'T WANNA REVISIT THAT OPTION ABOUT THE ENABLING, BUT I JUST WANNA LET YOU, THE OTHER THING IS THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT, RIGHT? WE KNOW THAT PLANTS AND OTHER THINGS HAVE BEEN BUILT IN NEIGHBORHOODS. UM, AND WHEN YOU HAVE A NEIGHBORHOOD RECOGNIZED, IT SAYS SOMETHING. UM, IF THE PRESERVATION STAFF, IF THE PLANNING STAFF WERE TO THE BUDGET CUTS GET CRAZY AND WE'RE GONE AND ELIMINATE IT, THESE, THE HISTORIC DISTRICTS WOULD STILL EXIST AND THE LANDMARKS WOULD STILL EXIST. AND THESE, IF CONSERVATION DISTRICTS ARE CREATED, THEY WOULD EXIST. AND WHEN THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION, THE SHIPPO, THE STATE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICE CONSIDERS THE EXPENDITURE OF FEDERAL MONEY AND WHERE THAT TRIGGERS A SECTION 1 0 6 REVIEW FOR, IT'S A HIGHWAY LIKE I 40 FIVE'S EXPANSION OR SIX 10 WHEN IT WAS BUILT, OR 2 88 WHEN IT WAS RAMPED THROUGH RIVERSIDE AND DEMOLISHING HUNDREDS OF HOMES. NO ONE HAD A VOICE, THEN WE WOULDN'T HAVE HAD 2 88. WE WOULDN'T HAVE HAD THAT DEMOLITION IF YOU HAD A LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT AND RECOGNIZED THE AREA OF, AND YOU HAD. SO THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED. SO THE, THE DISTRICT, THIS TOOL THAT DOESN'T RIGHT NOW DOES NOTHING. WE'RE JUST PUTTING A TOOL IN THE TOOLBOX. LIKE, I BOUGHT A, BOUGHT A, A HAMMER DRILL AND DROP IT IN MY TOOLBOX. AND I, I, I DON'T KNOW WHEN I'M GONNA NEED THAT HAMMER DRILL, BUT I'M SURE I'LL BE REAL HAPPY WHEN I GOT ONE. AND THAT'S THE THING HERE. IT'S THIS, THIS TOOL COULD BE USEFUL TO SOME FOLKS TO MAKE SURE THEIR AREAS ARE RECOGNIZED. AND, UH, SO THAT'S ONE, UH, LET SEE, UH, HISTORY. LET ME REMEMBER I COVERED IT ALL. HOW TO SIGN UP. SOMEONE ASKED IF YOU'RE INTERESTED. I'VE GOT CARDS IN MY POCKET. YOU CAN OF COURSE EMAIL US AT ONLINE. GO TO CITY OF [01:50:01] HOUSTON HISTORIC PRESERVATION. YOU'LL FIND OUR MAIN WEBSITE. UH, WE WILL, WE HAVE A NUMBER OF NEIGHBORHOODS THAT HAVE EXPRESSED INTEREST, BUT WE ARE JUST, WE'RE JUST GOING CAREFULLY. I'M OPTIMISTIC THAT THIS MIGHT BE ABLE TO BE PASSED. AND, UM, YEAH, I JUST WANT TO COMMENT ONE OTHER THING. THE AMERICAN PLANNING ASSOCIATION HAS A CODE OF ETHICS. A NUMBER OF PEOPLE ON THIS PLANNING STAFF ARE CERTIFIED BY THE PLANNING ASSOCIATION. AND I JUST WANNA READ ONE OF SEVERAL, UM, ONE OF MANY THINGS THAT IT SAYS ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO AS A PROFESSIONAL PLANNER RIGHT NOW, TODAY IN THE UNITED STATES. AND IT SAYS, SEEK SOCIAL JUSTICE BY IDENTIFYING AND WORKING TO EXPAND CHOICE, EXPAND CHOICE AND OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL PERSONS EMPHASIZING OUR SPECIAL RESPONSIBILITY TO PLAN WITH THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN MARGINALIZED OR DISENFRANCHISED. AND TO PROMOTE RACIAL AND ECONOMIC EQUITY URGE. IT SAYS URGE PROFESSIONAL PLANNERS ARE TO URGE THE ALTERATION OF POLICIES, INSTITUTIONS, AND DECISIONS THAT DO NOT HELP TO MEET THE NEEDS OF THOSE PEOPLE. THAT'S WHY THIS IS BEFORE YOU. 'CAUSE I WOULDN'T LET IT GO. AND CERTAIN MEMBERS, INCLUDING COMMISSIONER DEBO, WOULDN'T LET IT GO. WE DON'T HAVE THE TOOLS TO HELP THOSE PEOPLE, BUT THIS COULD BECOME THE TOOL THEY MIGHT NEED TO PULL OUT THE HAMMER DRILL. AND, AND, AND THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ABOUT. AND, UH, JUST THANK YOU. IF I HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER MR. CHAIR. I'D LIKE TO ADD ONE MORE COMMENT PLEASE. AND JUST TO CLEAR UP IN CASE THERE'S ANY MISUNDERSTANDING. UM, ROMAN MENTIONED INDUSTRIAL USES NEAR NEIGHBORHOODS. THIS ORDINANCE WILL NOT REGULATE LAND USE IF, IF AN INDUSTRIAL USE CAN FIT IN THE TYPE OF SCALE IN BULK THAT COULD GO IN. UM, SO THIS IS NOT A LAND USE ORDINANCE. IT'S, IT'S NOT ABOUT THAT. WHAT ABOUT THE QUESTION, THOUGH, FROM THE ENVIRONMENTALIST THAT, THAT WAS SPEAKING AND I MEAN, MANY OF THESE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, I OFTEN HEAR ABOUT HIGH CANCER RATES AND, AND YOU KNOW, FOLKS NEXT TO FORMER RAIL YARDS AND THE CHEMICALS THAT WERE USED. AND YOU KNOW, THIS, THIS AFFECTS PEOPLE. UM, AND I GUESS I'M START, I'M SEARCHING FOR HOW THOSE KINDS OF ISSUES WOULD FIND A PLACE IN THIS, BECAUSE I CAN'T, I'M JUST, I'M, I'M, I'M SEARCHING FOR THAT. I DON'T HAVE, I DON'T HAVE THAT. UM, 'CAUSE WE'RE USED TALKING ABOUT SCALE AND PROPORTIONS AND SETBACKS AND, AND THINGS THAT ARE MEASURABLE, I GUESS YOU SAY. UM, BUT, BUT I KNOW THOSE ARE IMPORTANT ISSUES. MANY IN MANY OF THE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT HAVE EXPRESSED AN INTEREST BECAUSE THEY HAVE SUFFERED, UH, FOR THAT. AND I THINK, UM, I GUESS MY OTHER QUESTION IS, BECAUSE THIS IS OUR SECOND HEARING FOR THIS COMMISSION, IS THIS HAS BEEN BEFORE OTHER BODIES. THIS WILL GO IF, IF THIS WERE TO, TO PASS OR, OR PASS CONDITION CONDITIONALLY WITH CONDITIONS, THIS IS STILL GONNA GO FOR OTHER BODIES AND OTHER, OTHER FOLKS WILL CONTINUE TO ADD TO, UM, ADD TO THIS, UM, UH, TO THIS DISCUSSION. UM, A NUMBER OF ITEMS THAT WERE BROUGHT UP IN OUR FIRST MEETING. AND THEN IN OUR SECOND MEETING, AS WE UNDERSTAND, AND ROMAN HAS ARTICUL ARTICULATED, UM, THE LEGAL STAFF AND, AND OUR, OUR CITY PRESERVATION STAFF HAVE BEEN AMENDING THE TEXT. SO WE'VE, WE'VE HEARD, WE'VE HEARD THE AMENDED TEXTS FOR THE QUESTIONS THAT WE HEARD FOR OUR LAST MEETING, FOR INSTANCE, TONIGHT. AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT STAFF, YOU ALL ARE RECOMMENDING THAT WE APPROVE THIS SO THAT IT MAY ADVANCE TO THE NEXT, UM, LEVEL OF DISCUSSION. UM, AND I'VE HEARD THE, I'VE HEARD THE COMMENT MADE, UH, WE, WE COULD, IF THE COMMISSIONER WERE WILLING TO ADVANCE THIS CONDITIONALLY WITH CONDITIONS THAT YOU HAVE EXPRESSED TO US, AND THAT WE KNOW THAT THERE WILL BE OTHER CONDITIONS THAT OTHERS MIGHT APPLY IF THIS WERE IN FACT TO, TO COME TO BE THAT STILL TO BE DETERMINED. BUT WE ARE, WE ARE A NECESSARY STEP IN THE JOURNEY OF THIS POTENTIAL ORDINANCE THAT THAT'S WHY IT'S HERE. UM, WE'RE NOT THE ONLY ONES, BUT WE WE'RE A PART OF THIS PROCESS. C COULD YOU, COULD YOU CLARIFY THAT FOR THE COMMISSION PLEASE? SURE. I, WELL, THE RECOMMENDATION AND, AND IS THAT, UH, THAT THE, UH, THE ORDINANCE AS PRESENTED HERE TODAY AND AS PRESENTED HERE TODAY IS A KEY BECAUSE WE'RE GONNA TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION EVERYTHING THAT WAS SAID HERE AND INCORPORATE IN THE DOCUMENT. UM, WE'RE NOT GONNA LEAVE ANYTHING OUT THAT WASN'T DISCUSSED HERE. I DO WANT TO RECOGNIZE, BUT I SHOULDN'T BE SPEAKING. I THOUGHT I SAW COMMISSIONER DEBO AS YOU WANNA SAY SOMETHING YOU NO, I, I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT ENVIRONMENTAL, UM, AND THE BENEFITS TO ENVIRONMENTAL, UM, WHAT YOU HEARD ROMAN SAY WHEN THE I 45 FREEWAY WAS GONNA BE WIDENED, THEY OMITTED NEIGHBORHOODS LIKE INDEPENDENCE HEIGHTS, THAT OUR NATIONAL REGISTER NEIGHBORHOODS. AND SO BECAUSE WE PUSHED BACK AGAINST IT, THEN THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT THAT WOULD'VE HAPPENED TO OUR COMMUNITY WAS MITIGATED [01:55:01] BECAUSE THEN THEY HAD, IT TRIGGERED A 1 0 6 REVIEW. AND WITHOUT THAT DESIGNATION, WE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GET IT. THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN ENVIRONMENTALIST AND ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE. AND SO THE IMPACT TO OUR COMMUNITY FROM THE POLLUTION, FROM THE NOISE, FROM THE DISPLACEMENT OF PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITIES FOR THE WIDENING OF A ROAD WAS A NEGATIVE IMPACT. AND SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THAT, I JUST KIND OF WANTED TO PUT THAT ON RECORD, UM, THAT THERE'S A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO. 'CAUSE I HEARD HER SAY SHE'S AN ENVIRONMENTALIST. OKAY. UH, MR. CHAIR, I'D LIKE TO, UM, MAKE SOME COMMENTS AS WELL. CERTAINLY, I THINK, UH, I DID NOT ATTEND THE FIRST MEETING, WHICH WAS THE JANUARY, UH, HAHC MEETING. UH, SO, UH, SOME OF THIS, I HAVE THE BENEFIT OF A DOUBT THAT NOW HAS BEEN REVISED FIRST TIME. UM, TO ME, I THINK THE, THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT, UH, I AM IN FAVOR OF IT, THE SPIRIT OF IT, BECAUSE IT IS VERY HARD AND DIFFICULT TO MEET THE, UH, THRESHOLD OF A HISTORIC DISTRICT AS FOR A CONSERVATION DISTRICT. THERE IS A PLACE IN THIS, IN HOUSTON. NONETHELESS, I DO NOT WANT TO SEE THE SAME MISTAKES REPEATED BASED ON THE HISTORIC DISTRICTS THAT WE HAVE, BECAUSE UP TILL TODAY, WE STILL DON'T HAVE ENFORCEMENT OR PROPER ENFORCEMENT OF, UH, SAY VIOLATIONS. AND THERE ARE SOME IMPLEMENTATIONS OF HISTORIC DISTRICTS THAT ARE STILL, I WOULD SAY, ARBITRARY OR SUBJECTIVE. IT ALL DEPENDS ON HOW MANY COMMISSIONERS ARE HERE AT THE DAY AND SO ON. SO TO ME, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE LEARNING FROM THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, A CONSERVATION DISTRICT THAT MOVES AHEAD WITH LESS HEADACHE IN THE FOLLOWING STAGES. NUMBER ONE, WE STILL HAVE CLARIFICATION ISSUES THAT WE, WE ARE WONDERING WHO IS THIS DEPARTMENT, THIS 51%, WHETHER THEY GET A SECOND VOTE, WHETHER THEY GET A REDRAW ON THE, ON, ON THE, UH, ON THE BOUNDARY AND THINGS LIKE THAT. THAT I THINK NEEDS TO BE CLARIFIED BECAUSE WE HAVE LEARNED FROM THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. UH, AND THE SECOND THING IS IMPLEMENTATION PHASE. TO ME, WHAT I HEAR A LOT OF THE PUBLIC QUESTIONS AND ALSO THOSE, UH, ONLINE, IS WE HAVE AN ENABLING, UH, ORDINANCE THAT IS LIKE A 50,000 FOOT LEVEL. BUT A LOT OF THE PEOPLE ARE ASKING AT THE 25,000 FOOT LEVEL, HOW ARE WE GOING TO IMPLEMENT THIS? AND I THINK THERE NEEDS, THERE IS SOMETHING TO BE SAID ABOUT, WE NEED TO BE CLEARER ON HOW WE INTEND TO IMPLEMENT THIS. THE SPIRIT IS GOOD, I AM ALL FOR IT AS WELL. IN FACT, I WANT TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR PEOPLE WHO OWN HISTORIC HOMES IN CONSERVATION DISTRICTS NOT TO EVEN APPLY FOR A PROTECTED LANDMARK SO THEY CAN STRAIGHT AWAY GET TAX BREAKS IF THEY DO THE PROPER WORK. SO WHY MAKE THEM DO A SECOND STEP, FOR EXAMPLE? AND THE THIRD THING THAT I THINK IS, UH, BASED ON A CLARIFICATION, B, IMPLEMENTATION C IS ENFORCEMENT. I THINK 20 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD WITH HISTORIC DISTRICT, OUR WEAKEST POINT IS STILL ENFORCEMENT. WE HAVE NO WAY TO, TO HAVE ALL THESE BAD ACTORS REALLY BE BEING PUT IN THE PLACE BECAUSE THEY WILLY-NILLY VIOLATED WHATEVER THAT EVERYBODY HAS AGREED TO. SO UNLESS I SEE SOMETHING LIKE THAT, I THINK THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT, IF IT GOES FORWARD, JUST LIKE THIS IS GONNA CREATE MORE PROBLEMS ON THE BACKEND FOR US. YEAH. SO THAT'S MY 2 CENTS RIGHT NOW. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AND GUESS ROMAN, COULD YOU, I MEAN, ENFORCEMENT CAME UP EARLIER. CAN YOU ADDRESS THAT? I MEAN, WE, WE, UM, I MEAN WE DO HAVE ENFORCEMENT PROVISIONS WITHIN OUR DISTRICTS AND UH, SOMETIMES THEIR REMEDY IS NOT, YOU KNOW, NOT VERY TOUGH. AND SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, IT, IT RESTRICTS THE FURTHER DEVELOPMENT OF THE PROPERTY FOR A CERTAIN TIME. BUT WE, WE DO HAVE SOME ELEMENTS OF THAT. I, BUT I GUESS COULD YOU, BUT COULD YOU ADDRESS THE ENFORCEMENT ISSUE IN TERMS OF THIS PROPOSED CONSERVATION DISTRICT ENABLING ORDINANCE? YES. YES. BECAUSE ENFORCEMENT HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP AND IT'S BEEN KIND OF BEAT UP AT, WE PROBABLY DON'T BRING YOU ENOUGH OF THE, WHAT WE DO ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS IN OUR OFFICE. UM, AND WHAT YOU HAVE DONE, IF YOU DRIVE DOWN, UM, I BELIEVE IT'S WIDE OAK OR WEST 11TH THERE, FIRST OF ALL, THE ENFORCEMENT, THE ENFORCEMENT OF WHAT YOU DO HERE HAPPENS. UM, SO WHEN [02:00:01] THE CERTIFICATE OF REMEDIATION IS ISSUED, BECAUSE SOMEONE HAS BEEN RED TAGGED, SO IF YOU WORK WITHOUT A PERMIT, YOU GET A RED TAG. WE, WE, THAT HAPPENS LIKE THEY CAN'T GET THEIR PERMIT. SO THEY, AND THEY CAN'T CLOSE A PERMIT. THEY CAN'T GET THEIR NEXT INSPECTION. AND I, I CAN'T WAIT TO TAKE Y'ALL OUT ON A TOUR AGAIN SOON TO SHOW YOU SOME OF THE PROPERTIES THAT LOOK FRANKLY REALLY TERRIFIC BECAUSE YOU PASSED A CERTIFICATE REMEDIATION AND THE PERSON COMPLIED. UM, SO THAT SAME RED TAGGING SYSTEM HAPPENS. THAT CITY HAS A GOOD INVESTIGATOR FORCE. THE INVESTIGATORS CALL OUR OFFICE PRETTY REGULARLY AND, UM, THEY'LL SAY, WE HAD A 3 1 1 ON THIS ADDRESS. CAN YOU TELL ME? I'M LOOKING AT IT. I, I DON'T SEE ANYTHING, FOR EXAMPLE. AND THEY'LL, I'LL TELL 'EM, WELL, CAN YOU SEND ME A TEXT ME A PHOTO? WHAT? LEMME SEE WHAT THAT HOUSE LOOKS LIKE RIGHT NOW. AND I CAN, UH, WELL, YOU DIDN'T NOTICE THE DOOR, WHATEVER IT IS, YOU KNOW, LITTLE THINGS. UM, SO THE, THE ENFORCEMENT IS HAPPENING AND WE DO HAVE A, I'M SORRY, I KNOW LEGAL WANTS TO COME. THERE IS A, A CLAUSE IN HERE ABOUT ENFORCEMENT AND REFERRING TO, I BELIEVE THE, THE CODES WE HAVE INCLUDING A, A ABILITY TO FIND PEOPLE. THE OTHER WAY WE DO ENFORCEMENT IS, AND I WISH I, I HAVE BEEN A LITTLE BEHIND ON IT, BUT WE'LL, WE'VE SENT OUT LETTERS. WHEN WE HAVE A PROPERTY, WE HAVE NEIGHBORS CALL US. THEY'LL SAY, MY NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY IS, UM, UH, THE WINDOWS ARE ALL FALLING OUT. THEY HAVEN'T PAINTED IT, IT LOOKS ABANDONED. WHAT'S GOING ON HERE? AND THE, OUR CURRENT PRESERVATION CODE HAS WHAT THIS OFFICE CAN DO, AND WHICH IS TO SEND A LETTER AND ASK FOR THEM TO GIVE US A PLAN FOR HOW THEY'RE GONNA FIX THOSE THINGS. AND THEN IF THEY DON'T, UM, IT CAN MOVE ON TO CITATIONS AND FORWARD. AND SO WE'VE HAD PEOPLE COMPLY WITH THOSE LETTERS THAT WE HAVE SENT AS WELL. SO THERE IS SOME ELEMENTS. AND THEN WHATEVER IS IN THE CURRENT DRAFT WITH REGARD TO IT IS SIMILAR TO THAT LANGUAGE. IT WOULD AMOUNT TO, IT WOULD GIVE LET'S JUST A GIVEN NEIGHBORHOOD IF, IF WE DID PASS A CONSERVATION DISTRICT IN ONE OF THE MANY NEIGHBORS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, UM, AND SOMEONE IS CONSTRUCTING A BUILDING THAT IS IN VIOLATION OF THE REGULATIONS THAT WERE THERE, THAT THEY COULD 3 1 1, THAT BUILDING OR THAT PROPERTY. UM, AND, AND THAT WOULD BEGIN THAT PROCESS OF OUR REVIEW, THE CITY OF PLANNING OFFICE, OUR PRESERVATIONS OFFICE REVIEW OF WHAT'S GOING ON OVER THERE. SO IT KIND OF WORKS, IT WORKS PRETTY, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT PERFECT , IT'S DEFINITELY NOT PERFECT BECAUSE YOU HAVE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE NOT GONNA FOLLOW ANY LAW KNOWHOW. NO WAY. AND THAT'S KIND OF HARD. BUT IF THEY'LL JUST, IT IS A, WHAT DO THEY CALL THAT? A FENCES ARE GOOD NEIGHBORS. AND THEN, UH, SOMETIMES I, YOU KNOW, I HAVE A LITTLE GATE IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE, ONE OF THOSE FOUR FOOT GATES. IT'S JUST TO KEEP 'EM HONEST. THERE'S NOT EVEN A LOCK ON IT. THEY SAY IT'S JUST TO KEEP 'EM HONEST. AND, AND THAT'S A, I KNOW, UH, MAYBE I'M AN ALTRUIST, BUT GENERALLY THERE'S SOME OF THE RULES THERE. AND, AND ESPECIALLY, I'LL TELL YOU WHAT, IF THIS, IF THEY WERE TO HAVE A, A CONSERVATION DISTRICT IN INDEPENDENCE HEIGHTS WITH SIGNED TOPPERS THAT SAY CONSERVATION DISTRICT, UH, OKAY, PEOPLE ARE GONNA KNOW, WAIT A MINUTE, WHAT'S GOING ON? WHO DO I NEED TO LISTEN TO? OR WHEN THE NEIGHBORHOOD PRESIDENT OR SOMEONE CALLS HIM AND POINTS IT OUT, THEY'LL BE CALLING OUR OFFICE. AND, AND I I THINK WHEN THE POINT THAT I'M MAKING IS RIGHT, RIGHT NOW, I DO NOT KNOW, AND MAYBE MS. MICKELSON CAN HELP ME. IT HAS THE, UH, HAS THE ENFORCEMENT ISSUE, THE FINES ISSUE WITH HISTORIC DISTRICT ACTUALLY BEEN RELEASED ALREADY? OFFICIALLY? I'M SORRY, CAN YOU REPEAT THAT? UH, FOR THE HISTORIC DISTRICTS, WE WILL, WE WERE LOOKING AT THE, IN CODE ENFORCEMENT AND THEN FINES AND SO ON AND SO FORTH. HAS THAT BEEN OFFICIALLY RELEASED? THAT IS ALREADY IN THE ORDINANCE. CODE ENFORCEMENT IS GENERALLY, I WILL SAY IN MY EXPERIENCE WORKING WITH CITIES IS ALWAYS A QUESTION OF HOW MANY COMPLAINTS AND HOW MUCH STAFF AND RESOURCES YOU HAVE. IT, IT'S NOT GOING TO PROBABLY EVER BE A PERFECT SYSTEM. UM, BUT THAT IS, BUT CODE ENFORCEMENT IS ALREADY AUTHORIZED TO ISSUE RED TAGS TO PRO TO TAKE A COMPLAINT TO, TO, BUT THAT'S NOT MY QUESTION. MY QUESTION WAS THE ORDINANCE THAT WAS WRITTEN FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT FINES WERE MAYBE ONLY RECENTLY PASSED THE LAST ONE OR TWO YEARS. UH, I THINK IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF, OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION TAKING ON CODE ENFORCEMENT, THAT'S BEEN, I THINK DELAYED FOR SOME TIME. I, I THINK WAS, IT'S JUST NOT MOVE FORWARD. THAT'S, THERE WAS SOME STRANGE, SOME LAWS THAT, OR, SO THERE WAS AN ORDINANCE THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED IN THIS COMMISSION REVISING THE CURRENT PRESERVATION ORDINANCE TO GIVE IT A LITTLE MORE STRENGTH. AND I BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SPEAKING OF. THOSE WERE QUEUED UP. UM, WE HAD A NUMBER OF ITEMS QUEUED UP AND I DON'T REMEMBER, BUT THERE WAS, THEY DIDN'T ALL MOVE FORWARD AT THIS TIME, INCLUDING, BUT THERE'S A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT, THAT DIDN'T GET THROUGH YET. I, I SPECIFICALLY REMEMBER TALKING ABOUT [02:05:01] AUTHORIZING FINES PER DAY FOR VIOLATIONS. THAT'S OF THINGS IN THE PRESERVATION ORDINANCE. AND WE HAD TALKED ABOUT THAT FOR A COUPLE MEETINGS AND THEN IT JUST DIED. IT'S ALREADY IN THE CODE. SO THERE'S SOMEONE DOES SOMETHING WRONG, WE CAN FIND THEM. WELL, YOU CAN'T FIND THEM WHO, WHO FINDS CAN'T FIND THEM. JUDGE. AND MUNICIPAL COURT HAS TO GO THROUGH A PROCESS, OH, I'M SORRY. HAS TO GO THROUGH A PROCESS. SO HHC HAS NO ENFORCEMENT AUTHORITY. STAFF HAS NO ENFOR. HISTORIC PRESERVATION STAFF DOES NOT. CODE ENFORCEMENT TAKES SPECIFIC REGISTRATION REQUIREMENTS AND THEY ARE AUTHORIZED, AS I SAID, THEY GO OUT AND THERE IS A PROCESS THEY FOLLOW TO ISSUE RED TAGS AND STATEMENTS OF FINES. EVENTUALLY, AT SOME POINT IN THEIR PROCESS, IT CAN GO FORWARD AS A CITATION TO MUNICIPAL COURT. THAT IS WHERE THE FINES ARE IMPOSED. JENNIFER, COULD YOU, HOW MANY FINES HAVE BEEN IMPOSED? I'VE BEEN ON THE COMMISSION FOR SEVEN YEARS AND I DON'T REMEMBER HEARING ANYONE GET FINED. WE HAVE A LOT OF 'EM IN INDEPENDENCE HEIGHTS. WE GET FINED EVERY DAY. WE HAVE RED TAGS EVERYWHERE, EVEN IN OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT. AND SO THEY ARE OUT IN FULL FORCE. I THINK WHAT IT IS, IS WHAT SHE SAID WAS THE NUMBER OF CALLS THAT GO TO 3 1 1. AND SO WE HAVE DEVELOPERS WHO PAY PEOPLE TO 3 1 1 US AND WE SEE THE PROPERTIES SHOW UP ON THE, ON ROMANS LIST. THE OTHER THING THAT I WOULD LIKE TO SAY IS THAT IN A COMMUNITY LIKE INDEPENDENCE HEIGHTS, AND I KNOW IT'S BEEN DONE IN OTHER COMMUNITIES, THE FIRST OF THE YEAR, WE GO OUT WITH THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICER AND WE RIDE THE COMMUNITY AND WE TALK ABOUT WHAT PROPERTIES WE'RE LOOKING AT AND WHAT PROPERTIES ARE ISSUED FOR US. AND SO HE ALREADY HAS A LIST AND WHEN IT COMES UP ON THE, UH, DEMOLITION OR CODE, THEY DO LOOK AT THAT. AND THAT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR YEARS. I KNOW IT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR YEARS. 'CAUSE WHEN DIANA DE CROSS WAS HERE, THAT WAS THE SAME THING THAT SHE DID. SO THERE IS, UH, THINGS HAPPENING NOW. I KNOW WE FILL IT IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. I DON'T KNOW THAT IT MIGHT NOT BE HAPPENING IN OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS, BUT IT DEFINITELY HAPPENS RIGHT THROUGH THE DAY. YOU'RE GONNA FIND ABOUT 20 RED TAGS IN INDEPENDENT SITES. BUT A RED TAG ISN'T THE SAME AS A FINE, LIKE A FIND'S LIKE A PARKING TICKET OR SOMETHING. YELLOW SIGNS PEOPLE HAVE TO GO TO COURT. AND I KNOW THEY'VE GONE TO COURT BECAUSE I'VE HAD TO GO BECAUSE IT'S BEEN ABOUT HOMES THAT ARE WAITING REPAIRS FROM HURRICANE HARVEY AND THEY ARE REPORTING THEM AS BLIGHT. AND SO WHAT YOU END UP WITH IS A CITATION AND THEY END UP HAVING TO GO TO COURT FOR THINGS LIKE THAT. AND THAT IS, THOSE ARE HOMES THAT ARE IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT THAT ARE HAVING TO GO TO COURT. BUT, AND SO WE HAVE TO GO AND EXPLAIN IS INDEPENDENCE HEIGHTS A HISTORIC, IF, IF I CAN, THIS IS OFF TOPIC FROM WHAT YOU HAVE ON YOUR AGENDA, I UNDERSTAND THAT ENFORCEMENT OF A NEW ORDINANCE WILL BE A CONTINUING CONCERN. BUT YOU KNOW, FOLK, I NEED TO BRING YOU BACK TO THE AGENDA ITEM. THANK YOU. WHICH IS THE, THE PROPOSED DRAFT OF THE ORDINANCE. THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THAT UP. I'M JUST TRYING TO, TO MEASURE THE TIME GAP BETWEEN THE ORDINANCE OF A HISTORIC DISTRICT VERSUS BEING FINES BEING IMPOSED. THAT I KNOW OF ONLY ABOUT LAST YEAR WHEN WE STARTED IMPOSING FINES. POSSIBLY IT TOOK THAT LONG. SO WHY NOT THEN, AT LEAST IN THIS, THIS CONSERVATION DISTRICT PROPOSAL HAVE AT LEAST A SECTION FOR ENFORCEMENT WRITTEN EARLY ON AND NOT 20 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD, AND WE TACKLE THIS ISSUE. THANK YOU. I JUST, JENNIFER, I HAVE A QUESTION. MANY OF THE, UM, ALL OF THE ITEMS ON THE LIST OF THE MENU ITEMS ARE ALREADY BEING ENFORCED TODAY. MAYBE NOT BY THE HISTORIC OFFICE, BUT MINIMUM LOT SIZE, UM, PARKING A BUNCH OF STUFF ON THERE. WE ENFORCE OTHER, UH, UH, FOLKS IN OUR DEPARTMENT ENFORCE THAT WITH THE HELP OF THE CODE ENFORCEMENT INSPECTORS. AND SO WE GET A COMPLAINT. WE, UH, YOU KNOW, WE RESPOND, UM, WE HAVE SOME LEVERAGE THROUGH PERMITTING. UH, THERE ARE FINES ISSUED IF PEOPLE DON'T RESPOND. THERE IS A PROCESS. YOU HAVE TO, YOU GET SO MANY DAYS TO RESPOND AND SO FORTH. BUT, SO THAT IS ALREADY REALLY BAKED INTO THIS. UH, WE ARE ALREADY DOING IT. IT'S, WE KNOW HOW TO DO IT. SO COMMISSIONER, IS THERE, WAS THERE, DO YOU EXPECT TO VOTE ON, I HAVE A QUESTION. THIS PROPOSED AMENDMENT TODAY, WELL, I'M GONNA PUT THIS OUT FOR THE COMMISSION TO DECIDE YES. WHETHER THEY WANNA VOTE ON THIS, TO ADVANCE THIS WITH CONDITIONS OR WITH, WITH THE CONDITIONS THAT HAVE BEEN, ARE GONNA COME OUT ON MONDAY, BUT ARE BEING READ TO US FOR, YOU KNOW, VERBATIM FROM OUR LAST MEETING. UM, I MEAN, I, THE, THE QUESTION ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS AT 25,000 FEET, I MEAN, THIS IS AN ENABLING ORDINANCE THAT WE ARE DISCUSSING. IF, IF A NEIGHBORHOOD WANTS TO ENACT THIS AND THEY APPROACH THE CITY AND SAY, WE WANT TO DO THIS, THERE'S GONNA BE A PUBLIC PROCESS. AND THAT'S, THAT'S A WHOLE NOTHER PUBLIC PROCESS. WE'RE, WE'RE NOT VETTING THAT TODAY. WE'RE JUST, WE'RE JUST VETTING THESE TOOLS AND, AND, AND ALLOWING THIS, IF IT, IF IT DOES HAVE A POSITIVE VOTE TO ADVANCE TO THE NEXT LEVEL OF FURTHER DISCUSSIONS. [02:10:01] AND, UH, YOU KNOW, THIS HAS TO GET BEFORE ULTIMATELY WILL GO BEFORE CITY COUNCIL. AND THERE ANY NUMBER OF CHANGES COULD OCCUR AT THAT TIME. UM, JUST AS ANY OTHER ORDINANCE THAT WE, WE PARTICIPATED IN THE PAST WE'RE, THIS IS JUST A STEP ALONG THE WAY, UM, TO GET TO THE NEXT, THE NEXT LEVEL. SO AGAIN, UM, MY, MY, MY, YOU KNOW, MY QUESTION FOR, UH, YOU KNOW, ROMAN, IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE SECOND PUBLIC MEETING WE'VE HAD AND FOR THE QUESTIONS, I MEAN, I, I'M NOT SURE WHY YOU'RE STILL CONCERNED ABOUT THE 51%. I MEAN, I THINK THAT WAS EXPLAINED TO US NOW IN THIS MEETING, AND WE CAN, WE CAN READ THE TEXT FROM THE ORDINANCE IF, IF YOU WANT, BUT IF, IF WE NEED TO GET MORE CLARIFICATION, YOU KNOW, WE CAN AMEND THAT. BUT I THINK HOW THAT IS, HOW THOSE VOTES ARE TALLIED IS, IS NOT SUBJECTIVE. IT'S, IT'S, IT HAS TO BE DONE A CERTAIN WAY AND IT'S, I I'M, I GUESS I'M NOT, I'M NOT, I'M NOT UNDERSTANDING THAT THE CONFUSION ON THAT PART. I MEAN, I THINK COMMISSIONER, I WANTED TO ASK, UM, YEP. WELL, I WANTED TO I GUESS, PULL MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS WITHOUT BEING IN THE ROOM TO SEE YOUR FACES. UM, IF, HOW, WHAT LEVEL OF COMFORT THE COMMISSION WOULD HAVE, UM, IN DOING SOMETHING THAT WOULD DO AT EVERY MEETING, UH, WHICH IS ASKING STAFF TO ADDRESS AND CLARIFY SOME OF THESE ISSUES THAT I HAPPEN TO AGREE WITH YOU. I THINK THEY'RE . UH, BUT IF, IF THEY ARE, UM, CONCERNED BY MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION, MAYBE WE NEED TO GO BACK AND, AND CLARIFY EVEN FURTHER THAT THESE PARTICULAR ITEMS. BUT IF WE WOULD BE COMFORTABLE APPROVING THE SPIRIT OF THIS ORDINANCE WITH THE CONDITION THAT STAFF BOTH LEGAL AND PRESERVATION OFFICE STAFF ADDRESS THOSE ITEMS, WE DO THAT REGULARLY. UM, YOU KNOW, IN OUR MEETINGS, UH, APPROVALS TO COAS WITH CONDITIONS, UM, IT SEEMS LIKE THAT WOULD ADVANCE THIS. AS YOU'VE NOTED, WE ARE NOT THE SOLE BODY WHO WILL VOTE OR APPROVE THIS, UH, BUT IT CERTAINLY DOES MOVE, UH, IT ALONG IN THE PROCESS. UM, AND WE'VE HEARD MANY, MANY, UH, MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC THAT ARE IN FAVOR OF, OF THE SPIRIT OF THE ORDINANCE. SO I GUESS I ASK YOU FELLOW COMMISSIONERS, IF, IF YOU HAVE AN APPETITE FOR THAT TODAY. I DON'T ZERO APPETITE FOR THAT TODAY. THERE'S MANY, MANY MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC THAT ARE AGAINST THIS, AND THEY'RE ASKING FOR A DELAY. AND I DON'T SEE WHY I WOULD VOTE ON SOMETHING THAT I'M GONNA SEE COMPLETELY REWRITTEN ON MONDAY WHEN ALL OF THE LANGUAGE THAT I HAVE CURRENT CONCERNS ABOUT. I CAN'T IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM VOTE FOR THE LANGUAGE AS IT'S IN FRONT OF ME RIGHT HERE TODAY. AND I'M TOLD I'M GONNA SEE IT, UH, WITHIN FOUR OR FIVE DAYS. WHY WOULDN'T I REVISIT IT WHEN I ACTUALLY GET TO SEE THE WRITTEN WORD? AND THEN I COULD SAY TO THE CONSTITUENTS, AND EVERYONE THAT'S SPOKEN TODAY THAT, YEAH, I VOTED FOR OR AGAINST SOMETHING THAT I SAW IN WRITING, AND I, I WOULD, UH, I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S GOING TO BE REWRITTEN, COMPLETELY REWRITTEN. I THINK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CLARIFYING SOME SPECIFIC ITEMS, WHICH FRANKLY ARE ALREADY IN THE ORDINANCE. THE CLARIFICATION MATTERS, OF COURSE. I'M SORRY. THIS, I'M SORRY. THIS IS MS. THOMAS. I AGREE WITH THE GENTLEMAN THAT IS SAYING HE DOES NOT AGREE WITH WHAT, WHAT'S WRITTEN HEARING PUBLIC. AND WE DON'T, I'M, I'M SORRY, THE DONALD, RIGHT. I'M SORRY. THE PUBLIC HEARING THOUGH IS CLOSED AT THIS TIME. SO THIS IS JUST COMMISSION MEMBERS SPEAKING AT THIS TIME. I'M SORRY. I UNDERSTAND. UH, COMMISSIONER DUBOSE, I THINK YOU WANTED TO SPEAK THOUGH. SURE. SO, UM, UM, MR. CHAIR, I WOULD, UM, I WOULD MOVE THAT WE AT LEAST, UH, ALLOW THIS ORDINANCE TO MOVE ALONG IN THE SYSTEM. 'CAUSE WE'RE NOT THE BE ALL, THE END ALL, UM, ON ANY OF THIS. AND WHEN I'M LOOKING AT THE WRITTEN COMMENTS AND SUPPORT THAT WE GOT, IT'S OVERWHELMING. YOU HEARD WHAT PEOPLE SAID HERE. THERE'S ALWAYS GONNA BE QUESTIONS, THERE'S ALWAYS GONNA BE CLARIFICATION. UM, WHEN WE DID THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, THEY, THEY'VE BEEN CLARIFYING THAT FOR 25, 30 YEARS, IT'S JUST GONNA KEEP GOING BACK AND FORTH AND BACK AND FORTH. AND I QUITE FRANKLY, DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE THE TIME TO KEEP COMING BACK AND GOING OVER THE SAME THING AND HEARING PEOPLE THROW THIS AND THAT. BUT I THINK THAT WHAT US AS COMMISSIONERS CAN DO IS TRUST IN THE STAFF THAT ARE HERE TO DO WHAT THEY SAY THEY'RE GOING TO DO AND PUT IT IN THERE. AND WHEN IT GOES BEFORE THE CITY COUNCIL, THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE FURTHER QUESTIONS, THEY WILL, THEY CAN TAKE THAT TO THE CITY COUNCIL AND MAKE SURE IT GETS CLARIFIED THERE. BUT AT THIS POINT, WE'RE NOT THE, WE'RE NOT THE, WE'RE NOT THE END OF IT. AND THIS IS AN ENABLING ARTIST. SO [02:15:01] IF A PERSON WANTS TO USE A COMMUNITY, WANTS TO USE IT, THEY CAN USE IT IF THEY DON'T LEAVE IT ALONE. OKAY. WELL, I HAVE A MOTION, UM, IN ORDER TO ADVANCE THIS CONVERSATION, I NEED A SECOND. COMMISSIONER, OW OR JACKSON WILL SECOND, DOES ANYBODY WANNA MAKE A COMMISSIONER? ASK ANYBODY WANTS TO MAKE A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT FOR LIKE CONDITIONAL, UH, ITEMS LIKE THIS LANGUAGE REGARDING THE 51% REQUIRES MORE CLARITY? YES. AND WHAT ARE THE ISSUES ANYBODY ELSE WANTS TO COMMERCIAL CARVE OUT? SORRY, COMMERCIAL CARVE OUT. COMMERCIAL CARVE OUT. COULD YOU ELABORATE THAT A LITTLE COMMERCIAL? I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE DOING FRIENDLY AMENDMENTS IF, OR I'M JUST SPEAKING OUT OF TURN. I'LL GO EITHER WAY, BUT I, I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THAT WE'RE GONNA ADDRESS COMMERCIAL CARVE OUTS SO THAT A CONSERVATION DISTRICT THAT, I MEAN, DO, DO, DO COMMERCIAL PROPERTY OWNERS GET A VOTE IN THIS CONSERVATION DISTRICT? IF IT, IF, UH, HOW, HOW ARE WE ADDRESSING BUILDINGS AND STRIPS, STRIP MALLS? IS IT ALL GONNA BE CARVED OUT? I MEAN, I I I HAVE EQUAL CONCERNS TO THE GENTLEMAN THAT SPOKE TO COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS, POSSIBLY BEING PART OF THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT. IS THAT NOT POSSIBLE AT ALL? YEAH, THAT'S A STAFF DECISION I THINK, I THINK RIGHT? THERE'S, FOR ME, THERE'S JUST, THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT ARE NOT CLEAR. NO, AND I HEAR THAT EVERYONE WANTS TO ADVANCE THIS, BUT ISN'T IT MY RESPONSIBILITY AS A COMMISSIONER TO MAKE SURE WHAT I'M VOTING ON IS CLEAR? ABSOLUTELY. I, I AGREE WITH YOU AS WELL, BECAUSE I HAVE NOT HEARD CLARIFICATION. AND I THINK WE TABLED THAT CLARIFICATION ON HOW CONSERVANCY DISTRICT IS RELATED TO ALL DOVETAILS WITH HSTE. SO I, I DO WANNA, UM, THERE'S A MOTION ON THE FLOOR. UM, AND THEN THERE WAS, AND A SECOND AND A SECOND, AND THERE WAS DISCUSSION. AND, UM, AND SO THE DISCUSSION WAS IS THAT DO WE WANT TO MOVE THIS FORWARD WITH THE, WITH ROMAN, WITH THE CLARIFICATIONS THAT YOU HEARD, UM, FROM COMMISSIONER STEVEN AND COMMISSIONER YAP, ANY MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC, UM, THAT THIS WILL BE DONE. AND WHEN IT GOES BEFORE THE NEXT BODY FOR A PUBLIC HEARING, THOSE THINGS WILL BE CLARIFIED. AND IF IT'S NOT, THEN WE STAND UP AND WE PUSH BACK AS RE REGULAR RESIDENTS IN THIS CITY. BUT WHY DON'T WE TRY TO CLARIFY THINGS NOW BECAUSE WE'LL BE CLARIFYING WE HAVE, AND THEN WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO KEEP DOING IT LATE. IF WE CLARIFY THEM NOW, THEN THE QUESTIONS WILL BE ANSWERED BECAUSE THE SAME THINGS KEEP GETTING ASKED. LIKE IF YOU LOOK AT THE, THE CRITICISMS, I, I JUST FEEL LIKE WE'RE GOING VERY QUICKLY. AND FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN WE DID THE HEIGHTS DESIGN GUIDELINES, WE PROBABLY HAD FIVE OR SIX MEETINGS TALKING ABOUT THAT, PLUS THE CONSULTANT TALKING TO THE STAKEHOLDERS. AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S, I THINK, MORE IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT COULD AFFECT A LOT MORE PEOPLE. AND I THINK IT HAS A BE POSSIBILITY TO HAVE A LOT OF BENEFIT. 'CAUSE IT COULD GO ALL OVER THE CITY. THE HEIGHTS DESIGN GUIDELINES WAS IN THREE LITTLE DISTRICTS. SO I, I THINK WE OWE IT TO EVERYONE THAT IS UNDER THIS, THIS POTENTIAL CONSERVATION DISTRICT ORDINANCE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE PROVIDING A REALLY GOOD, WELL-WRITTEN ORDINANCE THAT ANSWERS EVERYONE'S QUESTIONS AND DOES WHAT WE HOPE THAT IT'S GONNA DO FOR THE BENEFIT OF EVERYONE IN THE CITY. WELL, COMMISSIONER KII AGREE. AND I'M, I THINK THAT WAS MY, THE INTENT OF MY QUESTION WAS CAN WE DO THAT, CAN WE CLARIFY WHILE ALSO ADVANCING THIS, UM, TO THE DEGREE THAT, THAT WE HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO SO? UM, I MEAN, THIS ISN'T THE HEIGHTS DESIGN GUIDELINES, BECAUSE THIS IS ENABLING, THIS IS NOT SETTING, YOU KNOW, THE, THE DESIGN GUIDELINES. UM, AND AS ENABLING LEGISLATE ENABLING ORDINANCE, CAN WE DIRECT STAFF? ARE WE AS A COMMISSION COMFORTABLE DIRECTING OUR PROFESSIONAL STAFF TO ADDRESS THE ISSUES THAT WE'VE HEARD TODAY? WHICH IS WHAT I'VE HEARD ROMAN SAY AND, AND MRS. MICKELSON AS WELL, THAT WE WILL ADDRESS EACH OF THE ITEMS, UH, MENTIONED TODAY. MOSTLY THROUGH CLARIFICATION, IT SOUNDS LIKE, IS THE, IS THE REMEDY, UM, IN THE NEXT 24 HOURS AND THEN ADVANCE THIS ORDINANCE, UM, SO THAT THE COMMUNITIES THAT ARE ASKING FOR IT CAN BEGIN TO UTILIZE IT. I MEAN, WE DO THAT OFTEN WITH COAS. WE ASK OUR STAFF TO, TO, BUT COAS IS FOR ONE HOMEOWNER. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ENTIRE CITY. AND I THINK THAT IT'S REALLY CRITICAL TO SEE EVERYTHING IN WRITING. AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE DAYS, AND THEN WE CAN REVIEW THE DOCUMENT AND THEN VOTE ON WHAT'S ACTUALLY IN WRITING. AND, WELL, A LOT OF IT'S ALREADY IN THERE, YOU GUYS, SO IT'S CLARIFYING, IT, IT'S, IT'S NOT THOUGH COMMISSIONER BETH, UH, 51 IS IN THERE. IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT THE [02:20:01] FIRST AS, AS SPOKEN BY THE CONSTITUENTS THAT SPOKE. I MEAN, THE, THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT MAY ONLY BE INITIATED BY THE DEPARTMENT. I HEAR SOMEONE'S GONNA FIX THAT, AND I WOULD BE, I I THINK THAT I HONESTLY WOULD BE GOING AGAINST, BUT I THINK THAT'S, I MEAN, LY BUT, BUT WE'VE HEARD THE ACTUAL TEXT THAT'S IN THE REVISED LANGUAGE. I MEAN, YOU, IT WAS READ FOR YOU VERBATIM. AND, AND I GUESS ROMAN, COULD YOU RE, I MEAN, COULD YOU REREAD THAT TEXT? BECAUSE I MEAN, BUT THERE'S MORE THAN THAT ONE SENTENCE. WELL, AND THAT'S FINE. I MEAN, READ THE WHOLE PARAGRAPH. BUT I'M JUST SAYING IF WE'RE GONNA, IF WE'RE GONNA CONTINUE TO TALK ABOUT, WAIT IN WRITING THIS ONE ITEM, CAN WE JUST PUT IT UP ON THE SCREEN AND LET'S, LET'S TAKE THE TIME RIGHT NOW AND READ IT. WAIT, WE HAVE A, WE HAVE A, WE HAVE A MOTION, WE HAVE A SECOND. LET'S CALL THE VOTE. WE, WE WILL CALL A VOTE BECAUSE WE HAVE A SECOND. BUT I'M JUST SAYING BECAUSE THERE, THIS CONTINUES TO COME UP. LET'S JUST PUT IT UP, PUT THE WORDS ON THE SCREEN. LET'S LOOK AT THE WORD. 'CAUSE THEY'RE WRITTEN FOR THIS ITEM ANYHOW. AND I BELIEVE THE, THE ITEMS FOR THE 51% ARE ALSO WRITTEN, SO LET'S NOT LET, LET'S JUST LOOK AT IT FOR WHAT IT IS. SURE. WE CAN DO THAT. CAN YOU ASK THEM TO TURN WHAT, WHAT I HEAR FROM THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT, PLEASE, IS YOU'RE ALSO TAKING UNDER ADVISEMENT WHAT IS SPOKEN IN TODAY'S MEETING, WHICH IS PART OF THE REWRITE, WHICH IS WHY WE'RE GONNA GET IT ON MONDAY. LET ME, LET ME COMMENT HERE. SO IT, IT'S DEFINITELY NOT AN EXTENSIVE RE FEES FROM TODAY ARE ACTUALLY GONNA BE IN THE REWRITE. COMMISSIONER, IF I MISSPEAK, CHAIRMAN, MAY I SPEAK, PLEASE. IT, IT'S NOT A MASSIVE REWRITE. IN FACT, MOST OF WHAT'S BEEN DISCUSSED TODAY IS ALREADY IN THE DRAFT THAT WE PRESENTLY HAVE. UH, THERE'S PROBABLY A COUPLE THINGS, BUT THE MAIN THINGS, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ENFORCEMENT, IT'S IN HERE. THE, UH, WHO CHOOSES THE GUIDELINES IS IN HERE. BUT I ALSO WANT TO COMMENT ON THE SENSE OF URGENCY. WE, YOU NEED TO RECOGNIZE THAT WE HAVE A MAYOR WHO IS IN SUPPORT OF, OF SOMETHING LIKE THIS. UM, AND, AND WE HAVE ACTUALLY A HEARING OF SCHEDULED AT THE CITY COUNCIL ON, UH, TO 22ND OF THIS MONTH. SO TIMING WISE, THERE IS A SENSE OF URGENCY. UM, JUST ALSO MY, UH, I'M, YOU KNOW, WITH COUNCIL, WITH COMMISSIONER DUBOSE, UM, IT'S RATHER FATIGUING. IT'S AN ENABLING ORDINANCE. IT'S NOT A, A TOOL THAT'S AFFECTING, IT'S NOT AFFECTING THE WHOLE CITY. IT'S AFFECTING NOBODY YET TO BE SPECIFIC. SO LET ME SHARE THAT WITH YOU, THE, WHAT WE HAVE NOW, UM, ON THE ENABLING CHANGE. WHICH ONE? I'LL DO THIS, MR. CHAIR? YES, PLEASE, MR. CHAIR. WHILE, WHILE WE'RE GETTING THAT ON ONLINE FOR, FOR THAT, AS I NOTED, ORDINANCES ARE ITERATIVE, EVEN AFTER WE LOOK AT THIS AND EVERYBODY SAYS, WOW, THIS IS THE GREATEST ORDINANCE EVER WRITTEN. UM, WE MAY STILL FIND ESPECIALLY LEGAL, WE'RE GONNA GO BACK IN AND, YOU KNOW, TRIPLE DOUBLE CHECK THINGS AND SAY, OH, WE NEED TO CHANGE THIS. AND I'M NOT GONNA BRING THAT BACK HERE. UM, IF IT'S A LEGAL DECISION, UM, AND YOU KNOW, SOMETHING IN STATE LAW, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, I'VE GOTTA CONFORM TO THAT OR OTHERWISE WORK IN HOW WE'RE GOING TO COMPLY. UM, THE, THE IDEA IS IT'S UP FOR CONSIDERATION FROM YOU ALL. I WANNA JUST EMPHASIZE, COUNSEL MAY NOT HOLD THEIR SCHEDULED PUBLIC HEARING ON THE 22ND WITHOUT A FINAL REPORT FROM THIS BODY. SO IF WE, IF YOU ALL WANT TO DELAY ACTION ON THIS, WE NEED TO CONSIDER AT LEAST I THINK WHEN YOU ALL WILL WANT TO SCHEDULE ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING OR ANOTHER MEETING, AT LEAST IF THAT'S, IF WE HOLD ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING IN FACT. AND THEN, UM, WHEN THAT CAN BE DONE, IF YOU WANT TO DO IT BEFORE THE 22ND, OR IF YOU WANT TO DELAY THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S WITHIN THE, ACTUALLY THAT DOVE STILL VERY NICELY, UH, MR. CHAIR TO THE QUESTION I HAVE. OKAY. THE FIRST QUESTION I HAVE IS, HOW MANY CHANCE DO WE GET A CHANCE TO VOTE? ONE. OKAY. UH, SO IN THIS CASE, I WANT TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH THE MOST ACCURATE PICTURE WHEN I VOTE, NOT WHEN IT GOES FORWARD. AND THEN IF LET'S SAY SOMETHING, I STILL HAVE AN ISSUE, THEN I'M STANDING IN THE PUBLIC SECTION DOING THAT. I'M HOLDING MY OFFICE HERE RIGHT NOW. NUMBER NUMBER TWO, WHEN IS THE NEXT HAHC MEETING? THIS IS AN AD HOC MEETING. SO WHEN IS THE NEXT HAHC MEETING FOR US? THE 23RD OF THIS MONTH. SO ONE DAY AFTER THE CITY COUNCIL? I GUESS. SO. WILL THAT BE TOO LATE TO VOTE? YEP. IT'S AFTER THEIR MEETING THAT THEY PLANNED, THEY WILL NOT BE ABLE TO HOLD THAT PUBLIC HEARING WITHOUT A RECOMMENDATION AHEAD OF TIME FOR THIS TIME. YES, THEY CAN HAVE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND YOU'VE GOTTA HAVE THE SAME AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WHO WILL NO, NO. MISS STATE LAW PROVIDES THAT COUNSEL MAY NOT HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING WITHOUT A RECOMMENDATION FROM THIS BODY. SO WHAT, NOT ME MAKING THIS UP. WHY CAN'T THEY HOLD THE PUBLIC HEARING AFTER WE MEET AGAIN? WHAT, WHAT, WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE EXACTLY ON THE 21ST? WHY CAN'T IT BE NEXT MONTH? COUNSEL HAS TO CALL A PUBLIC HEARING AND THEN [02:25:01] WE HAVE TO PUBLISH NOTICE OF IT IN A NEWSPAPER FOR A STATUTORY PERIOD OF TIME. THAT'S WHY JUST AS THIS MEETING WAS CALLED CAN'T HAPPEN. IT'S, IT'S, YEAH, IT'S PROCEDURAL. SO, SO YOU ARE GONNA CALL THE PUBLIC HEARING BEFORE WE VOTED? LIKE THAT'S PREEMPTIVE, THAT'S NOT UNUSUAL, BUT I JUST DON'T THINK THAT MAKES THIS PROCESS LOOK VERY TRANSPARENT OR FAIR, PERSONALLY. WELL, MR. CHAIR, YOU COME ON. YOU HAVE A, YOU HAVE A, YOU, YOU HAVE A SECOND TO VOTE, RIGHT? I GUESS LET'S JUST PUT IT TO VOTE. WELL, BUT I'D LIKE TO FINISH. I MEAN, YOU, YOU ALL HAVE ASKED FOR CLARIFICATION AND, AND, AND IT'S IN WRITING, SO I JUST WANNA PUT IT UP SO IT'S BECAUSE IT'S RIGHT HERE IN FRONT OF US. AND ROMAN, YOU CAN READ IT AGAIN. THERE'S THE LANGUAGE THERE ABOUT THE, UM, LET ME GET A COPY FOR MYSELF HERE. WHEN YOU'RE, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE DESK. SO THAT LANGUAGE, AGAIN, THAT WAS ALREADY INTRODUCED IS A LIST OF ATTRIBUTES FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION OR EXTERIOR ALTERATIONS ON EXISTING STRUCTURES THAT THE NEIGHBOR WANTS TO BE REGULATED. SO WE'RE CLEAR ON THAT. AND LET ME GO DOWN TO ENFORCEMENT. TALKED ABOUT ENFORCEMENT. WE HAVE SIMILAR LANGUAGE AS YOU FIND IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, ORDINANCES, PENALTY FOR VIOLATION. ANY PERSON WHO INTENTIONALLY, KNOWINGLY, RECKLESSLY OR WITH CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE VIOLATES ANY PROVISIONS OF THIS ORDINANCE SHALL BE DEEMED GUILTY OF A MISDEMEANOR. AND UPON CONVICTION SHALL BE FINE IN AN AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED $2,000. EACH DAY OF VIOLATION SHALL CONSTITUTE A SEPARATE OFFENSE. THAT LANGUAGE EXISTS ON LANDMARKS AND HISTORIC DISTRICTS ALREADY. SO THAT WAS AN EASY FIX. CAN WE GO TO THE FRONT PAGE OF THE ORDINANCE? SO NOT THE FRONT PAGE OF THE DOCUMENT, BUT THE FRONT PAGE OF THE ORDINANCE RIGHT THERE REGARDING INITIATION OF CONSERVATION DISTRICTS. JUST TO CLARIFY, A CONSERVATION DISTRICT MAY BE INITIATED FOLLOWING THE EXPRESSION OF INTEREST BY A COMMUNITY IN DISCUSSIONS WITH STAFF, NO FORMAL APPLICATION OR PETITIONS REQUIRED. AND THE DEPARTMENT MAY ALSO SELECT APPROPRIATE AREAS THAT MAY BE ELIGIBLE FOR AND BENEFIT FROM CONSERVATION DISTRICT DESIGNATION AND MAY, MAY CREATE AN ANNUAL PLAN TO LIST THOSE. SO WE'VE, GOSH, JUST ELIMINATED, I THINK A LOT OF THE PRO TESTS THAT YOU HEARD TODAY ON THAT. AND WE DON'T HAVE TO, THIS IS A DRAFT THAT WE ALREADY ALREADY, AND WE CAN STILL AMEND A LITTLE. UM, BUT THERE, I WANNA SAY IN THE, SINCE IN THE FAIRNESS, UM, HISTORIC DISTRICTS WERE CREATED IN RESPONSE TO THE FAIR HOUSING ACT WHEN PEOPLE, WHEN MINORITIES COULDN'T BUY HOMES AND COULDN'T GET A MORTGAGE. BUT WHEN THE FAIR HOUSING ACT, THE FEDERAL HOUSING ACT, SAID YOU AS AN AFRICAN AMERICAN CAN GET A MORTGAGE, YOU HAVE TO, BANKS HAVE TO LOAN THAT MORTGAGE. MEXICANS HAVE TO HAVE THAT MORTGAGE. YOU HAVE TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO LIVE IN THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS. WHEN THAT ACT PASSED, THE ORIGINS OF HISTORIC DISTRICTS ARE DATA TO THAT BECAUSE PEOPLE DIDN'T WANT TO HAVE AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS. THEY DIDN'T WANNA HAVE COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS, THEY DIDN'T WANNA HAVE COMMERCIAL COMMISSIONER MCNEIL, THEY DIDN'T WANT TO HAVE COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS. SO THEY PASSED HISTORIC DISTRICTS. SO THERE'S A FAIR HOUSING IT SO THAT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT FAIRNESS AND WANTING TO CREATE THIS ORDINANCE, THIS ORDINANCE IS, UH, IS AS STATED IN SOME OF THE COMMENTS IN YOUR PACKET. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT LEVELS THE PLAYING FIELD FOR NEIGHBORHOODS THAT WERE ABUSED, NEGLECTED, DISENFRANCHISED, BEYOND YOUR CURRENT, IF YOU READ CURRENT, WHAT'S WRITTEN AND WHAT WE KNOW NOW CURRENTLY ABOUT WHAT WENT ON IN PLANNING IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, IT WAS VERY UNFAIR. IT WAS VERY UNEVEN, AND IT CAUSED THE BLIGHT THAT YOU SEE IN THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS. IT CAUSED IT MUCH MORE DIRECTLY AND INTENTIONALLY THAN YOU KNOW, AND I'M SPEAKING JUST FROM THE HEART HERE, AND I APOLOGIZE AND PROBABLY STEPPING A BIT OUTTA LINE HERE, BUT I JUST WANNA LET YOU KNOW THAT IT HASN'T BEEN FAIR BEFORE, UH, TO THE PEOPLE IN THESE NEIGHBORHOODS. AND SO THEN NOW TO USE THAT AND SAY, WELL, WE'RE GONNA DELAY THIS ENABLING ORDINANCE. IT, IT'S, IT LACKS, UH, SOME SENSIBILITY OF, UH, OF SOME RATIONALE. I AM NOT AT ALL GOING TO, UM, ARGUE HISTORY, AND I BELIEVE 100% IN EVERYTHING THAT YOU JUST SAID, BUT HISTORY AND THE LACK OF FAIRNESS AND HOUSING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY OPPOSITION TO VOTING FOR A DOCUMENT THAT I HAVEN'T READ YET. AND THAT IS STILL HAVING CHANGES MADE TO IT FROM THURSDAY THROUGH MONDAY. AND SO YOU'RE ASKING ME TO VOTE ON THURSDAY ON A DOCUMENT THAT I'LL SEE ON MONDAY. AND FOR ME, THAT'S NEGLIGENCE OF MY DUTY AS A COMMISSIONER. THANK YOU. RESPECT. I WOULD LIKE TO ADD MY [02:30:01] SO UNDERSTAND FROM, WELL, I WOULD LIKE TO ADD MY PASSION. IT'LL CONTINUE AFTER WE VOTE ON IT. UH, COMMISSIONER, WE HOLD JUST A MOMENT. UH, COMMISSIONER YAPP SPEAKING. I, I THINK WE ARE GETTING HERE A BIT TOO PASSIONATE. I'M VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT CONSERVATION DISTRICT. I WANT IT DONE, BUT I LIKE TO SEE THE CLARIFICATION, THE IMPLEMENTATION AND THE ENFORCEMENT BETTER WRITTEN BEFORE IT GETS DONE. THANK YOU. POINT OF ORDER. POINT OF ORDER. WE HAVE A MIS, UM, MOTION ON THE FLOOR THAT'S BEEN SECONDED. WE, I'M CALLING FOR A VOTE, I THINK. YES. LET'S CALL THE VOTE. IT'S, THAT WAS COMMISSIONER CALL. I'M CALLING THE VOTE. OKAY. SO I'M GONNA CALL FOR A VOTE, BUT I'M GONNA CALL, I'M GONNA, UM, I CAN'T, WE MINUTES ARE VIRTUAL, SO I NEED EVERYONE TO, TO, I'M, I'M GONNA CALL THE ROLE BASICALLY AND, UM, ON THIS VOTE, AND WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS WITH THAT VOTE. SO GO A SECOND. SO WE HAVE A MOTION. WE HAVE A SECOND. UM, VICE CHAIR, WADE HOWARD JACKSON. UH, AYE. COMMISSIONER CURRY, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK? EXCUSE ME? YES. CHAIR. CHAIR. MAY I, MAY I, I ASK FOR A CLARIFICATION. YES, SIR. WOULD YOU PLEASE REPEAT EX EXACTLY WHAT THE MOTION IS THAT WE'RE VOTING ON FOR EVERYONE'S SAKE? YES. COMMISSIONER DUBOSE, YOU'VE MADE THIS MOTION. CAN YOU, CAN YOU, UM, I MEAN MY UNDERSTANDING IS IT'S, IT'S YOUR ACCEPTING STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION, RIGHT? WITH THE CONDITIONS THAT WE HAVE AGREED UPON IN THIS DISCUSSIONS. AND WE HAVE SEEN IN WRITING ON THE SCREEN. YES. UM, BUT, BUT COULD YOU STATE THAT YOURSELF PLEASE? SURE. I, I MOVE THAT WE GO AHEAD AND APPROVE, UM, THE MOTION TO, UH, FOR THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT ORDINANCE WITH THE CLARIFICATIONS THAT WE HAVE HEARD HERE TODAY, AND THAT ARE ALREADY WRITTEN, UH, INTO THE DOCUMENT THAT WE ARE VIEWING ON THE SCREEN. UM, THAT THEY WILL BE, UH, INPUT INTO IT WHEN IT GOES TO CITY COUNCIL. THANK YOU. OKAY. THE NEXT, UH, COMMISSIONER, COMMISSIONER JONES. UH, CAN YOU HEAR ME? YES, WE CAN. OH, I, I VOTE TO APPROVE. COMMISSIONER DUBOSE. APPROVE. COMMISSIONER SWEN AYE. APPROVE. UH, COMMISSIONER VEDA HAS LEFT THE MEETING. COMMISSIONER COSGROVE IS NOT IN THE MEETING. COMMISSIONER MCNEIL? UH, OPPOSED? COMMISSIONER CURRY? AYE. COMMISSIONER COLLUM. AYE. COMMISSIONER. YAP. YOU, YOU WELL, WE DON'T RECOMMEND IT, BUT THEN NO. COMMISSIONER STAAVA. AYE. COMMISSIONER COUCH? NO. I HAVE SEVEN YAYS AND THREE NAYS. IS THAT CORRECT? COMMISSIONER RINNI. VASAN, WHAT WAS YOUR VOTE PLEASE? AYE, APPROVE. THANK YOU. YEAH, BUT I HAVE SEVEN AYES. I HAVE SIX. SO FOR AYES, I HAVE COMMISSIONER AUER JACKSON, COMMISSIONER JONES. COMMISSIONER DUBOSE. YES. THAT'S WHO I MISSED. OKAY, SO THE MOTION PASSES, AND I WILL ASSUME THIS, THIS, THIS IS NOT THE END OF THIS, THIS TEXT. AND THIS WILL CONTINUE TO BE REVISED AND AS HAVE ALL OF OUR MO OUR MOTION, I MEAN, ALL OF OUR ORDINANCE HAVE COME THROUGH THIS COMMISSION THAT HAVE GONE TO CITY COUNCIL HAVE BEEN AMENDED AS WELL. UM, COMMISSIONER MCNEIL HAS TO LEAVE EARLY. THANKS. UNDERSTOOD. SO WE, WE DON'T HAVE, FOR THIS MEETING, WE DON'T HAVE ADDITIONAL ITEMS EXCEPT FOR ADJOURNMENT. UM, SO MOVED. AND, AND AGAIN, I JUST WANT TO THANK COMMISSIONER SWEENEY VOSS FOR HER SERVICE, UH, TO THIS COMMISSION. SHE'S BEEN [02:35:01] A VALUABLE RESOURCE AND HISTORIC RESOURCES COMMITTEE AT A I A AND, UH, SHE WILL CONTINUE TO PARTICIPATE. UM, BUT HER TERM IS UP AND SHE'S ELECTED TO, UH, TO FIND A, A NEW PATH. YES. YES. THANK YOU EVERYONE. IT'S BEEN A HONOR AND A PRIVILEGE TO YOU SIT WITH YOU OUT HERE. I'VE LOOKED UP AT ALL OF YOU AS I WAS A STUDENT STUDYING ARCHITECTURE AND HISTORIC PRESERVATION, AND IT'S BEEN AN AMAZING JOURNEY HERE WITH YOU AND ABSOLUTE HONOR AND PRIVILEGE TO SIT WITH YOU AND DEBATE ON ALL ISSUES. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY AND YOU'LL CONTINUE TO HEAR FROM ME. I'M NOT GOING ANYWHERE, , SO THANK YOU SO MUCH. GOOD LUCK IN YOUR NEW PATH. ALL THE BEST TO YOUR FUTURE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU SO MUCH. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE. THANK YOU. AND WITH THAT, WE'LL ADJOURN THE MEETING. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OH. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.